WWE RAW 8/15/2011 - ¡Viva Mucho Tiempo Del Rio!

[Big Sexy]

How about the fact that whenever WCW paid a new talent more money than them, they were forced to renegotiate contracts with Nash and Hall to match the salary of the new highest paid performer. What kind of shit is that?

That's a damn good clause to have in your contract as a performer.

And what about his no out clause and creative control? Kevin Nash is a bumbling giant who has an ego that rivals that of Hogan, or even Ultimate Warrior, why the fuck would you give that type of person creative control?

Once again, how is any of that on Nash? He didn't hold a gun to WCW's head and force them to give him that contract. That's what he got offered and he would have been a complete idiot not to except.

 

[JGlass]

That's a damn good clause to have in your contract as a performer.

Totally unreasonable and unethical, though, especially considering how talentless Nash is.

Once again, how is any of that on Nash? He didn't hold a gun to WCW's head and force them to give him that contract. That's what he got offered and he would have been a complete idiot not to except.

Let's not act like he and Hogan didn't bully WCW into giving him those great contracts. He didn't hold a gun to their head... but he might not have signed on had WCW not offered him all those perks.

 

[Big Sexy]

Totally unreasonable and unethical, though, especially considering how talentless Nash is.

Unreasonable and unethical? How so? He was offered all that in a contract. Was he supposed to say "You know what you can actually take away some of those perks and lower the salary because I'd rather sign a contract close to the one that I had in the company that I just left. You know the one I'm only leaving because you're offering me more money."

Nash may be a lot of things but talentless certainly isn't one of them. He is good on the mic and back in his prime was pretty damn good in the ring considering his size.

Let's not act like he and Hogan didn't bully WCW into giving him those great contracts. He didn't hold a gun to their head... but he might not have signed on had WCW not offered him all those perks.

WCW basically went to Nash with that contract. Scott Hall was the first one to sign and was the one who told Nash what they'd basically give him. I can almost guarantee they could have gotten Hall and Nash for less then what they gave them and even if they couldn't have that still isn't Nash's problem. Think of it as a free agent in sports. If a player is being offered a giant contract by a team is he supposed to turn it down because he thinks they're over paying him?

 

[Shocky]

Nash talentless? Pffft. I know I know, he suffers from being over 6 feet tall and weighing over 200 lbs, oh and he doesn't do flips either.

 

[JGlass]

Unreasonable and unethical? How so? He was offered all that in a contract. Was he supposed to say "You know what you can actually take away some of those perks and lower the salary because I'd rather sign a contract close to the one that I had in the company that I just left. You know the one I'm only leaving because you're offering me more money."

He should have said, "This is the type of policy that could lead to huge financial difficulties and could eventually bankrupt the company." And just like you know that a chick that offers to blow you on the first date has probably done it to a million other guys before you, he should have known that this was going to set the tone for WCW's loose wallet, which was what eventually bankrupt the company.

I'm not faulting WCW offering Nash a lot of money (though it is ridiculous as he's nowhere close to being a main event draw, and never was), but let's not act like he didn't milk them for all they were worth with that contract. And more importantly, it's a pretty well known fact that he used his connections with Hogan to con Bischoff into offering he and Razor Ramon those contracts.

Nash may be a lot of things but talentless certainly isn't one of them. He is good on the mic and back in his prime was pretty damn good in the ring considering his size.

He was strong, but clumsy. He was never good on the mic, and even when he first debuted on Nitro the crowd couldn't give less of a shit about him. And "pretty damn good in the ring considering his size"? Since when has size ever been a hindrance in professional wrestling? Undertaker, Andre, Vader... there have been plenty of big men who could wrestle in the history of pro wrestling, but Nash is not one of them.

Nash was nothing in WCW, then Vince made him into a star with the Diesel gimmick, and he would have floundered in his second WCW run if it weren't for the nWo.

Nash talentless? Pffft. I know I know, he suffers from being over 6 feet tall and weighing over 200 lbs, oh and he doesn't do flips either.

Come on, you really think that's why I'm saying he's talentless? I'm saying he's talentless because... HE IS talentless. He was a klutz in the ring, incapable of getting himself over, and a total bore to watch. He was unimaginative, uninspiring, and a complete and utter dullard. If it weren't for Vince McMahon and Shawn Michaels, he would have never amounted to anything.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Yeah, Kevin Nash was anything but talentless. He had countless top-notch matches with Scott Hall, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. His run in WCW, in the ring, wasn't impressive, but WCW didn't put much focus on in-ring quality. Great mic worker, especially in WCW. Calling him talentless is just inaccurate.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Don't forget his work with the X-Divison in TNA. Top notch comedy.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Raw sucked.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Don't forget his work with the X-Divison in TNA. Top notch comedy.

Hey, I didn't say he was great, just not talentless.

 

[JGlass]

Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels could get a good match out of a corpse. I haven't seen his work with Razor Ramon, but I have my doubts that it's anywhere as "top-notch" as you say. I'll be sure to watch and give my honest opinion, which will probably be that Kevin Nash sucks.

Once again, overrated, a bad draw, and uninspiring in the ring.

 

[Ming]

Raw sucked.

This.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

Once again, overrated, a bad draw, and uninspiring in the ring.

.... but not talentless.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

This.

It's not so much that it sucked...it was just a taste of something new that was taken away and replaced with....

 

[Ming]

It's not so much that it sucked...it was just a taste of something new that was taken away and replaced with....

Yes, this.

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm entirely serious. Rey might lose the belt in the time it takes WWE Shop to deliver the mask, but I'll do it.

Alberto Del Rio saved me upwards of £20. He's my hero.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Kevin Nash was the best thing to happen to the X Division outside of AJ Styles and I can't fucking stand the man. Look at my face. This is my serious face.

 

[Slyfox696]

Totally unreasonable and unethical, though, especially considering how talentless Nash is.


Let's not act like he and Hogan didn't bully WCW into giving him those great contracts. He didn't hold a gun to their head... but he might not have signed on had WCW not offered him all those perks.

Methinks you doth make a hypocrite out of thyself.

If Nash didn't have talent, what bargaining power would he have had to get a great contract? Wrestling promotions aren't charities, giving money to anyone with an extended hand.

He should have said, "This is the type of policy that could lead to huge financial difficulties and could eventually bankrupt the company." And just like you know that a chick that offers to blow you on the first date has probably done it to a million other guys before you, he should have known that this was going to set the tone for WCW's loose wallet, which was what eventually bankrupt the company.

Yes, all wrestlers should be concerned with the morality of their contract. Just like all wrestling promotions are concerned with the morality of theirs. After all, it's not like wrestling promotions would release guys while injured (WCW releasing Steve Austin), and as we all know, these wrestling promotions always fulfill the life of the contract, meaning if you sign for five years, they will NEVER cut you after one and refuse to pay you the rest of your money.

Just curious, what's it like to live in an idealistic state of mind? And what do you think it will be like when you come back to reality and understand pro wrestling is, and always has been, a 'stab you in the back, get myself over by stepping on you' business?

I think you need to read Vince Russo's book, Ring Opera: How WCW killed Vince Russo. Russo is a very good writer, and he makes very good points about what it's like to be in pro wrestling, and the paranoia which exists.

 

[Big Sexy]

He should have said, "This is the type of policy that could lead to huge financial difficulties and could eventually bankrupt the company." And just like you know that a chick that offers to blow you on the first date has probably done it to a million other guys before you, he should have known that this was going to set the tone for WCW's loose wallet, which was what eventually bankrupt the company.

I guarantee you Kevin Nash wasn't signing his contract thinking about the financial future of a company that he doesn't own. If an employer offers me a couple million dollars I'm not going to question whether or not they are financially stable enough to do that. Your thought process makes zero sense.

I'm not faulting WCW offering Nash a lot of money (though it is ridiculous as he's nowhere close to being a main event draw, and never was), but let's not act like he didn't milk them for all they were worth with that contract. And more importantly, it's a pretty well known fact that he used his connections with Hogan to con Bischoff into offering he and Razor Ramon those contracts.

What connections with Hogan? Nash started working for the WWE on June 6th of 1993. Hogan left one week later after the KOTR and to my knowledge they had no relationship at all before they started working together in WCW. Bischoff needed talent and needed guys to get his NWO angle under way. Nash and Hall were two great options so Bischoff went after them with Ted Turner's seemingly bottomless wallet. When Nash and Hall first got hired Hogan hadn't even decided to be the third man in the NWO. You act like they were best friends or something.

He was strong, but clumsy. He was never good on the mic, and even when he first debuted on Nitro the crowd couldn't give less of a shit about him. And "pretty damn good in the ring considering his size"? Since when has size ever been a hindrance in professional wrestling? Undertaker, Andre, Vader... there have been plenty of big men who could wrestle in the history of pro wrestling, but Nash is not one of them.

This all coming from a guy who I thought just started watching wrestling a few years ago. Andre even in his prime was no better then Nash in his prime in terms of in ring work, Taker didn't start getting that good until the attitude era, and Vader while big width wise was only 6'5. Nash was a damn good worker in the WWE as Diesel. While in WCW his knees started to give out on him causing his work rate to go down but don't act like he was The Great Khali. It's very obvious you have not the first clue of what you're talking about.

Nash was nothing in WCW, then Vince made him into a star with the Diesel gimmick, and he would have floundered in his second WCW run if it weren't for the nWo.

He was nothing in his initial WCW run because he had shit gimmicks. You no who else was nothing in his WCW run? The Undertaker. Nash was finally given an opportunity to get over in the WWE and he did just that. He became WWE Champion in a year and a half and had a lot of very good matches. You saying he would have floundered without the NWO is nothing but a guess with nothing to back it up.

Let's sum up your arguments:

1. Nash fucked over WCW by accepting the contract THEY offered to him. How dare he accept money offered to him that will help he and his family be able to live comftorably.

2. Nash had no talent and sucked at everything.

Both arguments are 100% wrong and making you look foolish. Pretty much every single person coming in here has agreed that Nash was very talented both on the mic and in the ring.

 

[X]

Raw sucked.

Your face sucked my dick last night. ****e.


I don't get it...great opening match, awesome main event...what's not to like? Not a blow-away show angle or promo wise, but Nash and Punk's interactions were amusing and you can't say you aren't intrigued as to where the story is going. I'm going to do what I usually do and just give them the benefit of the doubt until they do something I perceive as so stupid and irresponsible that it derails and ruins their momentum or angles or matches or whatever. I see all kinds of positive outcomes to where this could be heading for Punk. Del Rio and Cena, eh, whatever. Get Cena out of the title picture, right now please. Have Del Rio and Rey feud while you do your tour of Mexico, the feud sells itself for god's sake. Focus entirely on the Punk/Cena/Kliq shit from here on out and keep throwing us reasonable curve-balls (hint: that's not swerves that make zero fucking sense like Kurt Angle joining up with Immortal, the group housing Jeff and Karen Jarrett, his most hated rivals for the last year AKA every fucking ridiculous Russo swerve ever).

I'm way more content with how this is all shaping up at this point than I was with say the Nexus angle last year, which I lost all hope in after Summerslam. Things look good from my perspective, until they noticeably fuck it up.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

It's not so much that it sucked...it was just a taste of something new that was taken away and replaced with....

He was there for roughly 3 minutes and all he did was cut a promo leading into a programme with Del Rio where he'll obviously put ADR over.

 

[Slyfox696]

He was there for roughly 3 minutes and all he did was cut a promo leading into a programme with Del Rio where he'll obviously put ADR over.

Shh...you're making sense. Can't have that around these parts.

 

[Coco]

Get Cena out of the title picture, right now please. Have Del Rio and Rey feud while you do your tour of Mexico, the feud sells itself for god's sake.

Why do that when we can do another "Cena marches proudly into enemy territory" match against Del Rio in Mexico? Lord knows those are the kind of Cena matches that we all like best.

 

[X]

Why do that when we can do another "Cena marches proudly into enemy territory" match against Del Rio in Mexico? Lord knows those are the kind of Cena matches that we all like best.

Because believe it or not I think the Mexican crowds would cheer for Cena in that scenario more than they would for their countrymen Del Rio. Now, if it were Rey Mysterio instead in Del Rio's place, that's a whole other story. But Del Rio doesn't have that massive mainstream following in Mexico yet like Rey does, so I think the crowd would wind up split, some cheering for Del Rio because he's a former luchador and from Mexico, while the rest cheering for the traditional babyface Cena who they've been watching on TV for years. This is one of their first chances to actually cheer him in person, they haven't gotten to the whole disillusioned, shit on the popular guy smarkitude yet dear Coco, that comes later!

 

[Coco]

Because believe it or not I think the Mexican crowds would cheer for Cena in that scenario more than they would for their countrymen Del Rio. Now, if it were Rey Mysterio instead in Del Rio's place, that's a whole other story. But Del Rio doesn't have that massive mainstream following in Mexico yet like Rey does, so I think the crowd would wind up split, some cheering for Del Rio because he's a former luchador and from Mexico, while the rest cheering for the traditional babyface Cena who they've been watching on TV for years. This is one of their first chances to actually cheer him in person, they haven't gotten to the whole disillusioned, shit on the popular guy smarkitude yet dear Coco, that comes later!

I'll certainly admit to not being versed in Mexican crowd psychology, so I'll take your word for it. Still, that might be worth seeing as well should Mysterio be taking time off (which is a possibility considering the post-match assault).

 

[Slyfox696]

Because believe it or not I think the Mexican crowds would cheer for Cena in that scenario more than they would for their countrymen Del Rio. Now, if it were Rey Mysterio instead in Del Rio's place, that's a whole other story. But Del Rio doesn't have that massive mainstream following in Mexico yet like Rey does, so I think the crowd would wind up split, some cheering for Del Rio because he's a former luchador and from Mexico, while the rest cheering for the traditional babyface Cena who they've been watching on TV for years. This is one of their first chances to actually cheer him in person, they haven't gotten to the whole disillusioned, shit on the popular guy smarkitude yet dear Coco, that comes later!

If that were true, and I have no reason to think otherwise, then wouldn't it make sense to keep Cena in the main-event title hunt? Three way dance, big draw.