NFL Week Thirteen LD - Chargers/Jaguars MNF? That's, uh, that's just flat out awful.
- Thread starter Megatron
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klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
Looked it up: he was the QB for the 13-3 season. Overall it looks like he was below .500 overall as a starter but i'm not sure.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
He's the John Cena of the NFL: everyone has an opinion on him. This is what, the 3rd or 4th week in a row he's dominated the LD? That's nothing but good for football.
All teams had the same rush to start the season but no team had more of a drastic change in coaching philosophies then the Broncos did. Fox made big changes prior to Tebow becoming the starter but obviously had to make more when Tebow came in because of the fact that he couldn't run a traditional pro style offense. I've never once said the team didn't improve in part because of Tebow becoming the starter just that the improvement of the defense and the job of the coaching staff to tailor the offense to Tebow was just as important.
All I'm arguing in this situation is that it is ludicrous for Tebow to be an MVP candidate just like it would be ludicrous for Alex Smith to be one. They are both very valuable to their teams right now but there are aspects to their teams that are just as if not more valuable to their success.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
So what you're saying is he wouldn't be a top candidate for it and someone like Rodgers will probably run away with it?
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
God damn it Rodgers, WTF, it's mistakes like that that are going to lead to your first loss of the season
I'm saying he isn't a candidate at all and Rodgers will run away with it. If you aren't top 5 I don't see you as a legit candidate.
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
And I'm saying as usual you're wrong about Tebow.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
It reminds me of Super Shedder
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I'm not sure if I should be happy about the Giants pulling ahead or not. I don't want the Packers to go undefeated but I want the Giants to lose so the Cowboys can extend their division lead.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
Everybody except you thinks Tebow is not candidate, like at all.
Because I said he wasn't an MVP candidate?
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
And even I said dark horse while Rodgers runs away with it. Yet somehow due to the magic of the internet, I've been turned into the chairman of the Tebow Is MVP campaign.
justinsayne
Cody Rhodes is an excellant
T.J. Yates for MVP, after all he is undefeated as a starter...
klunderbunker
Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House
I haven't lost a game either.
Nate DaMac
Fuck erbody but me
I think people are missing the point of KB's argument regarding Most Valuable Player.
If you put Kyle Orton in Green Bay, they would still likely be a playoff contender. Same for Orton in New Orleans.
However, Orton in Denver clearly wasn't working. They CLEARLY were not a playoff team. Now that Tebow has stepped in, the Broncos have gone from a team destined for the division cellar once again, to a team that is in first place in the AFC West. I know some people like to point to the improved play of the defense, but it's the same defense which was there when Orton was playing. And without Green Bay's defense playing as well as they have, they wouldn't be undefeated either.
So we have to throw out the "defense" argument because it's the same defense in Denver which was there earlier in the year, and defense has played a part in other teams successes (or failures) as well.
What KB is now saying is if you look at who has been the most VALUABLE to their team, I think you would be crazy to dismiss the importance Tebow has had on the Broncos. If the Broncos continue this hot streak they are on, Tebow most definitely deserves consideration for MVP, as does Rodgers, Brees, and Tom Brady. Because they have been vital to the successes of their teams.
If you put Kyle Orton in Green Bay, they would still likely be a playoff contender. Same for Orton in New Orleans.
However, Orton in Denver clearly wasn't working. They CLEARLY were not a playoff team. Now that Tebow has stepped in, the Broncos have gone from a team destined for the division cellar once again, to a team that is in first place in the AFC West. I know some people like to point to the improved play of the defense, but it's the same defense which was there when Orton was playing. And without Green Bay's defense playing as well as they have, they wouldn't be undefeated either.
So we have to throw out the "defense" argument because it's the same defense in Denver which was there earlier in the year, and defense has played a part in other teams successes (or failures) as well.
What KB is now saying is if you look at who has been the most VALUABLE to their team, I think you would be crazy to dismiss the importance Tebow has had on the Broncos. If the Broncos continue this hot streak they are on, Tebow most definitely deserves consideration for MVP, as does Rodgers, Brees, and Tom Brady. Because they have been vital to the successes of their teams.
Given the potency and quick strike ability of both offenses, I think this stat is misleading.
But if they had worse defenses, they wouldn't be in the position they are in. Correct? Do you deny the idea that if the components around Brees and Rodgers were worse, the team would be worse?
Because that is your argument, really. That every other component is just as responsible for the Broncos success as Tebow is, but you give no credit to the other components on other teams for their successes. You're literally trying to create two different arguments.
Sure they are. Would they be as good? No. Would the Packers be undefeated? I seriously doubt it. But they would be playoff teams. Are you really telling me these are bad teams and the only reason they're winning is because of Rodgers and Brees?
Way to state the obvious.
Not at all. I give credit to a teams success to the components that are successful. With Denver the defense has been greatly improved since the start of the season and they deserve just as much credit as Tebow does for this 6-1 run because they have played just as good probably better then the offense has. If the Broncos defense was still playing like shit and they went on this run then Tebow and the offense would deserve all the credit but that isn't the case. With Green Bay and New Orleans, Rodgers and Brees are leading their teams best unit. The Packers win more because of their offense then their defense. Same with New Orleans. I would never give the 2000 Ravens offense the same credit as the 2000 Ravens defense because the defense was clearly the better unit and the biggest reason they won the Super Bowl.
I couldn't see the Packers being any better then 8-8 without Rodgers and the same goes for New Orleans. That record doesn't get you in the playoffs. Just look at the Colts. I'd say Manning is more important to the Colts then arguably any qb has ever been to his team but no one saw a 0-12 start happening.