NFL Week Thirteen LD - Chargers/Jaguars MNF? That's, uh, that's just flat out awful.

[Megatron]

Meaning a lot and being MVP are two different things, though. Matt Stafford has meant a lot to the Lions but should he get MVP consideration? No.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't buy it.

 

[Big Sexy]

Yeah I know, but it's more important than any other stat. Keep in mind what I said: I know Rodgers is going to run away with it as he probably should. I'm just saying Tebow has meant a ton to his team this year.

So I guess Mark Sanchez and Vince Young are great qb's too. They are 25-17 and 31-19 respectively as starters. VY was 26-13 to start his career as a starter.

 

[klunderbunker]

Meaning a lot and being MVP are two different things, though. Matt Stafford has meant a lot to the Lions but should he get MVP consideration? No.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't buy it.

Here's the thing though: the team is far better with him at QB. I don't think anyone will deny that. The name of the award is most valuable player. Not best, but valuable. Answer this: how many games do you think the Packers would win without Rodgers? Same for the Saints without Brees?

And before I get a big lecture, no I'm not at all or in any way saying Tebow should get it over them. The award is usually for the best player anyway, but my point is that as far as value goes, he's way up there.

 

[justinsayne]

Good lord what the hell happened to ATL?

 

[klunderbunker]

So I guess Mark Sanchez and Vince Young are great qb's too. They are 25-17 and 31-19 respectively as starters. VY was 26-13 to start his career as a starter.

Sounds pretty solid to me. I still think the Titans were stupid to let him go, but they had the "better" QB in Collins. What record did he get them again?

 

[Nate DaMac]

Sounds pretty solid to me. I still think the Titans were stupid to let him go, but they had the "better" QB in Collins. What record did he get them again?

They didn't keep Collins either after they let Young go. They drafted a rookie and picked up Hasselbeck, who has kept them in the playoff hunt. Meanwhile, Vince Young is 1-2 in Philly and has sucked hot ass in his last 2 losses.

 

[justinsayne]

Tebow is the not the only reason why Denver has gotten substantially better though, the Defense has improved drastically & really step up as the season has progressed. The defense is just as much a part of why they've gone 6-1 in their last 7 as Tebow, Fox adjusting the offense around Tebows strengths also has a lot to do with it too, Tebow is a big part of why they're winning, but he's hardly the only reason they're doing good. This is what bothers me the most about Tebow supporters, they want to give him ALL the credit for the teams turn around, when it's not ALL Tebow, he's just one piece of the puzzle.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

Also, all this talk about Denver has kept me from mentioning....

@ Atlanta. Today was a fucking gift of a game with Schaubb and Leinart being out, and you fuckers still managed to lose.

Hey dude Yates did a pretty good job today. He isn't up to snuff with Matt but he is a good job today. I'm not looking forward to the playoffs this year, but I think we can beat the Bengals next week. After seeing them play the Steelers, I think it will be a close game. After that I believe the Titans will give us a small bit of trouble.

 

[klunderbunker]

They didn't keep Collins either after they let Young go. They drafted a rookie and picked up Hasselbeck, who has kept them in the playoff hunt. Meanwhile, Vince Young is 1-2 in Philly and has sucked hot ass in his last 2 losses.

I meant when they were both on the Titans a few years back. Young might have gotten injured. I'm not sure.

As for Young now, yeah he's not as good but it's not like the team is much better with Vick either. That being said, I'd call his time in Tennessee a success. They had winning records with him as a starter didn't they (legit question. I'm not entirely sure)?

 

[Big Sexy]

Sounds pretty solid to me. I still think the Titans were stupid to let him go, but they had the "better" QB in Collins. What record did he get them again?

I never said they should have gone with Collins over VY. I hate Kerry Collins and think he's awful. I'm just pointing out that winning games isn't 100% on the qb. Jim Mcmahon has the 5th the highest winning % of any qb in NFL history but he also had a great coach, an elite defense, and Walter Payton. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who would put Mcmahon in the top 50 or even top 100 of qbs all time let alone at number 5.

 

[klunderbunker]

Tebow is the not the only reason why Denver has gotten substantially better though, the Defense has improved drastically & really step up as the season has progressed. The defense is just as much a part of why they've gone 6-1 in their last 7 as Tebow, Fox adjusting the offense around Tebows strengths also has a lot to do with it too, Tebow is a big part of why they're winning, but he's hardly the only reason they're doing good. This is what bothers me the most about Tebow supporters, they want to give him ALL the credit for the teams turn around, when it's not ALL Tebow, he's just one piece of the puzzle.

That's true but the same could be said for any MVP candidate. Rodgers or Brees wouldn't be as revered if the entire team didn't win. It is true though, everything has come together at the right time, but he's been a big reason as to why it's working.

 

[Nate DaMac]

I meant when they were both on the Titans a few years back. Young might have gotten injured. I'm not sure.

As for Young now, yeah he's not as good but it's not like the team is much better with Vick either. That being said, I'd call his time in Tennessee a success. They had winning records with him as a starter didn't they (legit question. I'm not entirely sure)?

Yeah they had a winning record. They had a weird thing going on there. Young would start poorly so they'd put Collins in and he'd have a winning streak, the next year they'd start with Collins and he'd suck ass until they put Vince in and get a winning streak. Those 2 always went hot and cold.

 

[Big Sexy]

And again Alex Smith has done just as good a job of winning games, plus he has done it all season, and he actually has good numbers in other areas as well. Where's his praise?

 

[klunderbunker]

I never said they should have gone with Collins over VY. I hate Kerry Collins and think he's awful. I'm just pointing out that winning games isn't 100% on the qb. Jim Mcmahon has the 5th the highest winning % of any qb in NFL history but he also had a great coach, an elite defense, and Walter Payton. You'd be hard pressed to find someone who would put Mcmahon in the top 50 or even top 100 of qbs all time let alone at number 5.

I'd call the mid 80s Bears an extreme case and an exception to the rule, but at the same time: McMahon was the QB that made the team work. Could another QB have done the same? Probably, but we can't know that. What we do know is they were a success with him at the controls. In Denver's case, we've seen two QBs this season. One has done very well and one has done poorly. You have someone to compare Tebow to and the team has improved with him in there, which is the most important thing in sports: winning.

 

[klunderbunker]

And again Alex Smith has done just as good a job of winning games, plus he has done it all season, and he actually has good numbers in other areas as well. Where's his praise?

He's done quite well too. He'd probably be my frontrunner for most improved.

 

[klunderbunker]

Yeah they had a winning record. They had a weird thing going on there. Young would start poorly so they'd put Collins in and he'd have a winning streak, the next year they'd start with Collins and he'd suck ass until they put Vince in and get a winning streak. Those 2 always went hot and cold.

Were they over .500 with Collins? Again legit question.

 

[Nate DaMac]

MATTHEWS

 

[Megatron]

Because it's Alex Smith?

 

[jmt225]

Damn, Eli. Get your shit together. You cannot give a team like Green Bay points when their offense isn't on the field.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Were they over .500 with Collins? Again legit question.

No idea, actually. I think he was their QB when they had the 13-3 season though.

 

[Big Sexy]

I'd call the mid 80s Bears an extreme case and an exception to the rule, but at the same time: McMahon was the QB that made the team work. Could another QB have done the same? Probably, but we can't know that. What we do know is they were a success with him at the controls. In Denver's case, we've seen two QBs this season. One has done very well and one has done poorly. You have someone to compare Tebow to and the team has improved with him in there, which is the most important thing in sports: winning.

Yes but you also have the comparisons of how the defense played early in the season and how they are playing now. Last time I checked Tebow doesn't play defense. It's also a hard adjustment going from a coach who passed all the time and didn't care about the defense to a coach who is run oriented and is a big defensive guy. With off season workouts eliminated because of the lockout there was going to be an adjustment period to start the season no matter who the qb was.

 

[klunderbunker]

So much for that out of sync idea.

 

[justinsayne]

AND THE CLAYMAKER STRIKES AGAIN!!!!!

 

[klunderbunker]

Yes but you also have the comparisons of how the defense played early in the season and how they are playing now. Last time I checked Tebow doesn't play defense. It's also a hard adjustment going from a coach who passed all the time and didn't care about the defense to a coach who is run oriented and is a big defensive guy. With off season workouts eliminated because of the lockout there was going to be an adjustment period to start the season no matter who the qb was.

All perfectly logical and reasonable.

Now: every team had to make the same rushed start to the season correct? Without Tebow coming in as the starter, the coach wouldn't have had to change the system correct? Therefore, the changes were made due to Tebow, meaning the team has improved because of him, right? As for the defense, Rodgers doesn't play defense, nor does Brees. The defense combines with them to make the good team. However, we're talking about most valuable player, as in an individual player, not a unit of eleven.

 

[Big Sexy]

Because it's Alex Smith?

Exactly my point. It would be dead wrong to say Tebow has had a better season then Alex Smith. Yet because of the media hype train and the fan base Tebow has, you'd think he was a top 5 qb in the league. Meanwhile Alex Smith is someone who never gets talked about. That's where dislike for Tebow comes from.