NFL Week 10

[justinsayne]

And when he stops winning/keeping them in games, you'll be right. Until then, you're speaking in theory rather than fact. The fact is, Tebow has won three times as many games as Orton this year and has 1/4 of the losses. That's probably not going to last, but for now he's done far better this season.

No, that's wrong, the Broncos as a TEAM have won those games. Tebow didn't win any of this games by himself, just like Orton didn't lose any of his games by himself.

 

[klunderbunker]

No, that's wrong, the Broncos as a TEAM have won those games. Tebow didn't win any of this games by himself, just like Orton didn't lose any of his games by himself.

QB is more important than any other position on a team. You know that.

But since I don't want Justin whining all day at me, here: with Tebow starting, they've won 3 times as many games than with Orton. Better?

 

[GI Cake]

Can anyone else tell me that Chicago has not improved since their bye? They're making the Lions look like the Colts right now.

 

[GI Cake]

QB is more important than any other position on a team. You know that.

Right, and the offensive line blocking for both the quarterback and the Running back are completely worthless.

 

[klunderbunker]

Right, and the offensive line blocking for both the quarterback and the Running back are completely worthless.

5 linemen block for one QB. All of them combine to protect him. I don't recall a lineman scrambling for a first down or throwing a TD.

As for running backs, they touch the ball what, half the time as opposed to a QB who touches it 99% of the time (while on offense of course)?

 

[GI Cake]

5 linemen block for one QB. All of them combine to protect him. I don't recall a lineman scrambling for a first down or throwing a TD.

No, but they're clearing a hole for running backs in a First and Goal situation, and they're blocking 4 to five 300 pound men from smacking the quarterback in the jaw.

Ask the 2007 Patriots how important an offensive line is in football. Superstar Tom Brady never had enough time to throw a pass to Welker or Moss because Michael Straham forced Brady to try and throw the ball when he is on the ground.

Quarterbacks are an important part of the team, but never the most important. Let's take the 2006 Chicago Bears, their starting Quarterback was Rex Grossmen yet they made it all the way to the Superbowl.

 

[klunderbunker]

No, but they're clearing a hole for running backs in a First and Goal situation, and they're blocking 4 to five 300 pound men from smacking the quarterback in the jaw.

Ask the 2007 Patriots how important an offensive line is in football. Superstar Tom Brady never had enough time to throw a pass to Welker or Moss because Michael Straham forced Brady to try and throw the ball when he is on the ground.

Quarterbacks are an important part of the team, but never the most important. Let's take the 2006 Chicago Bears, their starting Quarterback was Rex Grossmen yet they made it all the way to the Superbowl.

Again, 5 linemen, one QB. They block for him and there's stuff he can do with a bad line. Not sure what you're not getting about that.

Very true on the Bears. Now let's look at all the Super Bowls that Manning, Brady, other Manning, Aikman and Big Ben have won. I'd think their QB had more to do with that than any lineman.

 

[jmt225]

It's pretty damn hard to catch a ball when the defender has his hand under your damn helmet, pulling it in the opposite direction.

From the direction I saw it that happened a split second after the ball went through Roddy's hands. Maybe it'll be on Youtube later and you can prove me wrong, but I thought the contact came after or just as the ball hit his hands.

 

[GI Cake]

Again, 5 linemen, one QB. They block for him and there's stuff he can do with a bad line. Not sure what you're not getting about that.

Very true on the Bears. Now let's look at all the Super Bowls that Manning, Brady, other Manning, Aikman and Big Ben have won. I'd think their QB had more to do with that than any lineman.

Just because they're is only one starting Quarterback for the team doesn't make it the most important position. Otherwise you can make the argument that the Kicker and the Punter are more valuable to the team then the Offensive Line. Their are 5 guys blocking for the Quarterback because the quarterback needs 5, even more to block for him. If a quarterback doesn't get that protection they are dead in the water. Ask Jay Cutler who's success as a QB dropped when he moved from Mike Shanahan's zone blocking scheme to the Bears sub-par, jury rigged offensive line.

 

[klunderbunker]

Just because they're is only one starting Quarterback for the team doesn't make it the most important position. Otherwise you can make the argument that the Kicker and the Punter are more valuable to the team then the Offensive Line. Their are 5 guys blocking for the Quarterback because the quarterback needs 5, even more to block for him. If a quarterback doesn't get that protection they are dead in the water. Ask Jay Cutler who's success as a QB dropped when he moved from Mike Shanahan's zone blocking scheme to the Bears sub-par, jury rigged offensive line.

So what you're saying is the blockers combine to be more important than the QB?

I'm glad you added that to this since I never really said the opposite.

 

[GI Cake]

So what you're saying is the blockers combine to be more important than the QB?

I'm glad you added that to this since I never really said the opposite.

Pretty much, an elite offensive line can carry a sub-par quarterback week in week out as compared to an elite Quarterback can not make up for a sub-par offensive line.

 

[klunderbunker]

Pretty much, an elite offensive line can carry a sub-par quarterback week in week out as compared to an elite Quarterback can not make up for a sub-par offensive line.

*sigh* let's go over this again.

I said a QB is more important than any other individual position. An offensive line is not an individual position. It's a group of five positions functioning as one unit. Not really anywhere close to what I'm talking about.

 

[Slyfox696]

Is there really someone arguing the fact the QB is the most important position on a football team?

 

[GI Cake]

*sigh* let's go over this again.

I said a QB is more important than any other individual position. An offensive line is not an individual position. It's a group of five positions functioning as one unit. Not really anywhere close to what I'm talking about.

I get what you are saying but what you wrote was Quarterbacks are the most important position. From how I read it, it sounded like you completely disregarded the fact that Quarterbacks like Matt Stafford and Tom Brady can carry a team on their back without an offensive line.

I wish I can write that one position in the offensive line is more important than the others, but you really can't. They all share one task and that is to protect the Quarterback and the Running back.

 

[klunderbunker]

I get what you are saying but what you wrote was Quarterbacks are the most important position. From how I read it, it sounded like you completely disregarded the fact that Quarterbacks like Matt Stafford and Tom Brady can carry a team on their back without an offensive line.

I wish I can write that one position in the offensive line is more important than the others, but you really can't. They all share one task and that is to protect the Quarterback and the Running back.

Thereby making them irrelevant to this.

 

[Big Sexy]

QB is obviously the most important position but what I believe Justin was getting at with his initial post about the Broncos as team is that the sum of their parts has been immensely better the last few weeks. The defense as a whole unit has improved. The running game as a whole unit (running backs, run blocking) has improved. Unless a guy like Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, etc.. is your qb then the play of a defense and the effectiveness of a running game is more important then a singular qb.

Basically if the defense and running game were what they were early in the season then Tebow would not be 3-1.

 

[Slyfox696]

I get what you are saying but what you wrote was Quarterbacks are the most important position.

It is.

 

[GI Cake]

Can you name one Quarterback that was able to make up for the short-comings of their offensive line and make it through the season and be considered an elite offense?

 

[Big Sexy]

Matt Stafford is playing the worst game of his career. This is going to be a bad loss for the Lions barring a Romo like collapse.

 

[Slyfox696]

Can you name one Quarterback that was able to make up for the short-comings of their offensive line and make it through the season and be considered an elite offense?

Offensive line is not a position, buddy. I can't sign Olin Kreutz out of retirement and say, "Hey, go play offensive line". Your argument is similar to me saying offensive line is not important, because the defense is much more important.

QB is the most important position. There really isn't a credible debate to be had.

 

[GI Cake]

Matt Stafford is playing the worst game of his career. This is going to be a bad loss for the Lions barring a Romo like collapse.

And it's not like his offensive line can do anything about it.

 

[GI Cake]

Offensive line is not a position, buddy. I can't sign Olin Kreutz out of retirement and say, "Hey, go play offensive line". Your argument is similar to me saying offensive line is not important, because the defense is much more important.

QB is the most important position. There really isn't a credible debate to be had.

I guess the only credible debate to be had is that teams can live or die without a Quarterback. The Colts are dying without a QB while teams like San Fran can go 7-1 without a Tom Brady or an Aaron Rodgers.

 

[Slyfox696]

I guess the only credible debate to be had is that teams can live or die without a Quarterback. The Colts are dying without a QB while teams like San Fran can go 7-1 without a Tom Brady or an Aaron Rodgers.

In that last 20 years, only 5 teams have won a Super Bowl without having an elite level quarterback (Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Gannon, Eli Manning). All five of THOSE quarterbacks made it to the Pro Bowl at least once, with Rypien and Gannon doing it in the year they won the Super Bowl.

The other quarterbacks are Hall of Famers (Aikman, Young, Elway), future Hall of Famers (Favre, Warner, Brady, Manning) or likely future Hall of Famers (Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers).


If you want to win a championship, you need an elite QB.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Can you name one Quarterback that was able to make up for the short-comings of their offensive line and make it through the season and be considered an elite offense?

Vick did it, Roethlisberger made it to the Super Bowl with a makeshift line, and hell, even the Packers line was questionable. This was all last year.

 

[Big Sexy]

In that last 20 years, only 5 teams have won a Super Bowl without having an elite level quarterback (Hostetler, Rypien, Dilfer, Gannon, Eli Manning). All five of THOSE quarterbacks made it to the Pro Bowl at least once, with Rypien and Gannon doing it in the year they won the Super Bowl.

The other quarterbacks are Hall of Famers (Aikman, Young, Elway), future Hall of Famers (Favre, Warner, Brady, Manning) or likely future Hall of Famers (Roethlisberger, Brees, Rodgers).


If you want to win a championship, you need an elite QB.

I think you mean Brad Johnson not Rich Gannon.