**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[AwesomeRko]

I really don't think the whole "Rock's hometown" thing is a valid point. It sounds good on the surface, but think about it, it could have been in Boston and the crowd still would have been notoriously pro-Rock. It has happened at every arena in the past two months.

I think it's really horrible what the WWE did to Cena. He loses at WM27 because of Rock. Gets Rockbottomed by him at SS. And now loses this match. The Rock had nothing to gain but Cena had everything to lose. I think it's really sick that someone can give as much of themselves to a company as Cena has and be rewarded like this.

Whether you are ok, angry or neutral with the Rock's decision to go make movies, the bottom line is this: the Rock left. Cena didn't.

I lost a lot of respect for Vince McMahon last night.

Cena has been the top guy and face of the company for around eight years in that time hes has beaten such luminaries from the Attitude era as HHH, Y2J, Angle, HBK and Edge. He did not need a win over Rock to validate him or his crednetials as the top guy in the company in any way.

It's ok for him to lose a match, in fact its actually refreshing saying as to the best of my knowledge it has been nearly 4 years since he lost a match clean. He already goes over pretty much everyone he wrestles and the past two years aside has an outstanding Wrestlemania record, having also lost sneakily to Orton in a triple threat. He already has a better win/loss record at mania than legends like Rock and HBK who are testament to the fact that you do not have to win every match to be the best.

The result was 100% the right one, it makes Rock look strong in his continued involvement within the WWE and gave the majority of viewers ad fans in the stadium what they wanted. It provided a mania moment which will be remembered forever and was the pefect exclamation point on a terrific match.

As far as Cena goes the loss may actually have earned the respect of some of the haters who would have resented him even more had he have won. It also creates the opportunity to add some freshness to his charcter and a degree more vulnerability perhaps putting the super-Cena thing to bed. Cena has been stale for a while and this provides the perfect catalyst for change, I'm don't think something as radical as a full-blown heel turn will happen but a bit of tweaking would be nice.

 

[The Talon]

Apparently, the storyline going into RAW tonight is that John Cena isn't there at all & everyone's trying to find him. This leaves no doubt into my mind that WWE's definitely setting up a heel turn storyline for Cena. Whether or not they actually move on with a three-match series for Cena/Rock is anyone's guess though.

 

[AnvilForever]

Apparently, the storyline going into RAW tonight is that John Cena isn't there at all & everyone's trying to find him. This leaves no doubt into my mind that WWE's definitely setting up a heel turn storyline for Cena. Whether or not they actually move on with a three-match series for Cena/Rock is anyone's guess though.

I'm really not sure about that. I know some people don't want it to be brought up, but why would they give Cena a new Boston Celtics/Starbucks Coffee shirt if they were going to turn him heel? Doesn't make sense to me.

That said, I am glad that they are taking this path, whether or not it leads to a heel turn. Cena said before that if he lost to the Rock, then he "would lose everything." Well...he lost, and the way he lost was really well done. He had the Rock right where he wanted, he got cocky and tried to pull a show stealer, and he paid the ultimate price. The Rock beat John Cena, and more importantly, John Cena beat John Cena. I hope that this starts a storyline that shows Cena starting to question his abilities and his legacy.

Still, we were all teased with character development/heel turn for Cena during his feud with Kane, and all we got was a crappy storyline and a reassertion of the status quo, so I'm not letting my expectations get too high.

 

[xavyer]

I agree, ok, the match against JBL was important because that's when he became WWE champion for the first time, but with Triple H, that match cemented his career, he defeated the biggest superstar the WWE had at the time, and obiously that's the match that gave him a lot of recognition.......

 

[CleverName51]

I voted HBK, he beat Mr Wrestlemania at Wrestlemania and then when 1 hour with him a few weeks later.

That match, cemented Cena as a top guy, and not a short term solution after Brock Lesnar left

 

[mariners74]

I'd say his match against Brock lesnar.

It was his first shot at main event and the first real big test for cena.

 

[Maximus9000]

First time poster...

Firstly, I just want to say, I don't hate Cena. I actually appreciate him for the work that he's done. He CAN wrestle and has had some very memorable feuds.

Regarding the heel turn issue, WWE don't need to do ANYTHING at this stage. What many of you may not want to acknowledge is that as of tonight, Cena is already a heel, albeit not in the traditional sense, but he is hated by the majority of the crowd and generates heat. The whole "goody goody act" is just that -an act. WWE are pushing Cena's character this way, knowing full well that the vast majority are booing him. That's a heel....he doesn't have to resort to steel chairs or insulting the crowd. Cena is the type of heel we've never seen before....a heel that some of the crowd love, but the majority boo like crazy.

Of course, it will come to a point where WWE will need to make a decision: either have Cena "snap" and turn on the crowd, or change his character a little to make him more aggressive and not pander to the crowd so much. That's their call, not mine. As it stands though, John Cena is basically a heel, Brock Lesnar having just got an enormous ovation for F-5'ing Cena into the next century. His pandering to the crowd and to The Rock was so nauseating that it was heel-ish, but I think that's what WWE were aiming for.

We'll see what happens from here, but it'll be interesting to see what they do with John's character. I can't see him going back to being popular as Super Cena again for quite some time. His loss to The Rock was for a bigger plan for John's character, not just to cement Rock's legacy.

A feud with Lesnar will be cool anyway, since I recall these two guys having an excellent feud back in 2003, when Cena made several hilarious raps about Lesnar. Boy would I enjoy seeing that again!

 

[Pedigree1]

I voted HHH WM 22!! Yes when Cena won the title a year earlier at WM21 against JBL Cena had his moment but not the moment!! Cena at that time was just coming into his own persona while trips was still HHH!! When they met a year later Trips was still the king of kings IMO while Cena was almost that guy.

When Cena beat trips he officially became that guy the face of the company!! To me Cena most important match was then!!!

 

[[cL]]

(i checked and I didn't see this thread made so....if it is please move it)

He may not be everyone's favorite...he's definitely not mine, but he's given a lot to this business and if anyone is holding a marker for who owes who, the WWE definitely owes him for helping to keep the company going for the past 8 years. Again, i am not a John Cena fan, I am a wrestling fan and I realize what his contribution to the business is. Was it the right time, right place for Lesnar? Obviously. The crowd was on FIRE tonight and there was no better a place for that to happen. Did the show end like it was supposed to? Without question. We all knew he was coming back and to bring him back the way they did, was without doubt, crazy. All I'm saying is, you're already in miami, coming out to a crowd that absolutely hates you, after having lost to a man who ain't been in a ring in 8 years, after having talked crap for an entire year, and then having to get into a ring to ask to shake a mans hand that you KNOW you can't stand and after ALLLL of that, Brock Lesnar, another guy who aint been in a WWE ring in years, who "also" said he wasn't coming back, COMES BACK, and drops him in the middle of the ring and kicks his hat. I'm not mad, i'm just sayin...dang man.....I know he's a company man and all but where does HE draw the line? Does he just say YES YES YES YES YES to Vince? lolololol
Sucks to be Cena this weekend...
What do YOU think?

 

[Peoples_Champ]

Good thing Cena got that win over Kane in the ambulance match because it doesn't look like he's going to get a significant win for a little while now.

And I'm not sure they even care to make Cena more of a face any more. First they put him against The Rock and then another wildly superstar in Brock Lesnar. Why not have Cena wrestle Steve Austin too? I don't think Cena is going to get cheered for a very long time.

I believe Cena when he says he's not going to turn heel (it's too financially lucrative to pull off), but he sure is going to get treated like one for the time being.

 

[The Engima]

I really do not understand what they are trying to do with Cena at the moment. It doesn't make any sense. You have him lose to the Rock last night, in what was a really good match. To me, that doesn't make logical sense. You have the face of the company doing everything for you. Working night in night out, busting his ass for you. While the Rock comes in every once and again and you have Rocky go over? I love the Rock, but from smark perspective. I don't get it. I don't get having this guy bust his ass carry you on his shoulders for 5 years, really with out any help and then have him lose to a guy who hasn't competed in a singles match in 7 years and will not be there week in week out? I don't get that, I don't see how that helps Cena at all.

Then tonight, you have Cena lose last night after stating that match was everything to him, and he comes out and does his normal speech? Come on. He need something better than that, then to get f'5 by Brock. If Cena had beat Rock, yeah I can get that. Great way to set up a feud. This though? You've basically ruined everything he's done for 7 years. With him getting beat by Rock, and then destroyed by Lesnar. I know some are going to call me a Cena homer, I'll admit it I enjoy watching Cena, but I'm also a huge Rock guy, and I don't get it!

 

[rayman]

in the words of jr "CENA MADE THE GAME SUBMIT!!!!!" my pick is wrestlemania 22 it showed the that the champ is here to stay

 

[The Eighties]

I went with WrestleMania 22 against Triple H, the story was good and beating Triple H cemented him as the guy. Before that he'd went over main event guys in JBL and Angle, but the win over an elite main event guy like Triple H gave him that seal of authenticity.

 

[Arsenal]

Rock going over Cena was the RIGHT call. It proves that Vince McMahon is smarter than the smarks that infest boards like these. Fans like me who were going to finally give up on WWE for good are now totally excited. There's nothing we want more than to see John Cena get beat by the Rock, and then F-5'd into oblivion by Brock Lesnar tonight. The same with millions of other fans who got sick of the bland boring WWE and this corporate puppet SuperCena shoved down our throats for years.

I haven't been this excited about WWE in years! Thanks for 2 awesome nights of entertainment. With superstars like The Rock and Brock Lesnar back, and putting John Cena in his place, I'm loving it.

This would be a great time for John Cena to get lost for a few months. People (including haters like me) would appreciate him more if he disappeared for awhile.

 

[Arsenal]

I really do not understand what they are trying to do with Cena at the moment. It doesn't make any sense. You have him lose to the Rock last night, in what was a really good match. To me, that doesn't make logical sense. You have the face of the company doing everything for you. Working night in night out, busting his ass for you. While the Rock comes in every once and again and you have Rocky go over? I love the Rock, but from smark perspective. I don't get it. I don't get having this guy bust his ass carry you on his shoulders for 5 years, really with out any help and then have him lose to a guy who hasn't competed in a singles match in 7 years and will not be there week in week out? I don't get that, I don't see how that helps Cena at all.

Then tonight, you have Cena lose last night after stating that match was everything to him, and he comes out and does his normal speech? Come on. He need something better than that, then to get f'5 by Brock. If Cena had beat Rock, yeah I can get that. Great way to set up a feud. This though? You've basically ruined everything he's done for 7 years. With him getting beat by Rock, and then destroyed by Lesnar. I know some are going to call me a Cena homer, I'll admit it I enjoy watching Cena, but I'm also a huge Rock guy, and I don't get it!

Are you serious? Since when does it matter if something "helps Cena"? That's the problem with the "CeNation"... they think the goal is to promote John Cena instead of the WWE.

Rock beating Cena at WrestleMania and Brock Lesnar F-5ing Cena on RAW is good for the WWE, so who cares if it's good for Cena? It will help make the product appealing again to people like me, and millions of former fans who can't stand that lame corporate puppet Cena being shoved down our throat.

(Note: it's good for Cena too, but you marks probably can't figure that out.)

 

[The Engima]

Are you serious? Since when does it matter if something "helps Cena"? That's the problem with the "CeNation"... they think the goal is to promote John Cena instead of the WWE.

It matters when a guy has been built for past 7 years as the face of your company. When the guy bust his ass for you. Then he's thrown over the bus. I'm not mad with him losing at Mania, I don't think it was the right call. What I'm upset about is the way in which things were handled tonight.

Rock beating Cena at WrestleMania and Brock Lesnar F-5ing Cena on RAW is good for the WWE, so who cares if it's good for Cena? It will help make the product appealing again to people like me, and millions of former fans who can't stand that lame corporate puppet Cena being shoved down our throat.

How is it good, when Rock isn't going to be there? I don't see how its good for Raw or the WWE for the face of your company to lose to a guy that hasn't been wrestled a one on one match since 2003. I can't see how that's good business. I love how you point out Cena's being shoved down your throat, but you didn't complain when Austin was, or when Rock was 15 years ago.

(Note: it's good for Cena too, but you marks probably can't figure that out.)

Because at the moment it doesn't make any sense for Cena to come out with his same shitty, "I'm going to rise above this crap." When he just lost the match that he risked everything. The match that meant everything to him. Then to get f5'd.

 

[MissLeigh80]

I know that alot of people have gotten tired of John Cena because he is always promoted, super man always winning matches etc I do get that but I think what everyone fails to understand is that John is the one who has busted his ass off for years to make a name for himself and when people like Dwayne Johnson and Brock Lesnar left for brighter pastures John stayed. Even with making movies, doing tv appearances, granting more wishes for Make-A-Wish Foundation than ANY other celebrity ever in history he never left for truly extended periods of time. John eats, sleeps and breathes this business ~ as he told the Rock before, this is his life and he will be around for a long time.

I've been a John Cena fan since the beginning and no matter what happens, good or bad, face or heel, I am one person who would much rather have Cena shoved in my face than Dwayne Johnson anyday!

 

[MissLeigh80]

It matters when a guy has been built for past 7 years as the face of your company. When the guy bust his ass for you. Then he's thrown over the bus. I'm not mad with him losing at Mania, I don't think it was the right call. What I'm upset about is the way in which things were handled tonight.

I agree 100%! John has busted his ass off for the past several years to be the best wrestler in the company; he has done very appearance ever asked of him and has given his fans more of himself than I'm sure he's given to his own family. Rock won't be around like John Cena will; he'll be gone again making movies and we'll see him maybe once in a blue moon but for someone like John who is such a hard worker he stood to gain more from a win NOT Dwayne!

How is it good, when Rock isn't going to be there? I don't see how its good for Raw or the WWE for the face of your company to lose to a guy that hasn't been wrestled a one on one match since 2003. I can't see how that's good business. I love how you point out Cena's being shoved down your throat, but you didn't complain when Austin was, or when Rock was 15 years ago.

The thing about all this for me is that yes John is constantly promoted but that is because he is the face of the company; no one works nearly as hard as him and yet the poor guy is constantly shit on for no reason. Rock didn't need that win at WM28, John did so the outcome was more predictable because they were in Dwayne's hometown ............. heaven forbid he lose in Miami !

Because at the moment it doesn't make any sense for Cena to come out with his same shitty, "I'm going to rise above this crap." When he just lost the match that he risked everything. The match that meant everything to him. Then to get f5'd.

Now see if I were John I would be beyond pissed; you make me lose to The Rock in his hometown of course when he had absolutely *nothing* to gain from the win and then the next night you bring back a dude who left this company for the UFC and he comes back to F5 me? I would love to see John just say "fuck this shit" and, dare I say this, turn heel. Go back to having the same FU attitude that he had back when he was rapping at the very beginning of his career and just as Kane said embrace the hate.

Either way, Go Cena Go!

 

[grantedisme]

Now see if I were John I would be beyond pissed; you make me lose to The Rock in his hometown of course when he had absolutely *nothing* to gain from the win and then the next night you bring back a dude who left this company for the UFC and he comes back to F5 me? I would love to see John just say "fuck this shit" and, dare I say this, turn heel. Go back to having the same FU attitude that he had back when he was rapping at the very beginning of his career and just as Kane said embrace the hate.

Either way, Go Cena Go!

I kinda agree with this. I don't know Cena or what kind of attitude he has, but it definitely seems like he got ripped off a bit. Look at every other "greatest match of all time" dream match that we've had in previous Wrestlemanias. Before now, the future of the company always prevailed (notable exception being Hogan/HBK, and most of us know why that happened..):

Hogan over Andre
Warrior over Hogan (Warrior ended up not sticking around, but I doubt anyone backstage saw that coming at the time)
HBK over Bret (arguably doesn't belong on this list, but I remember feeling like it was a dream match at the time)
Austin over HBK
Rock over Austin
Rock over Hogan
Brock over Rock (again, I'd be willing to bet that McMahon didn't think Brock would be leaving so soon when he booked this)
...and then this.

I think most of us know that McMahon is willing to defy all logic and reason to create shock value, so I wouldn't be too surprised if that's all he had in mind with this finish.

Then again, who can know for sure? This could end up transitioning Cena into an amazing storyline, but as it stands on its own in the present, I can't help but get the impression that he got the short end of the stick. Nevertheless, he handled it professionally, and I'm glad that his character didn't change as a result.

Cena continues to "rise above hate", and he'll hopefully get his career-defining Wrestlemania moment in the next couple of years before his injuries force an early retirement.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Turning Cena heel would be such a logical move at this point, imo. The comment he made last night was revealing, musing for the first time whether he should turn against the WWE universe. He had never suggested such a thing before, and even as he's asking it, the fans are booing him unmercifully. Yes, it's a set-up, in that he's standing in Miami, where they're expected to boo him.....that was, after all, the whole idea behind staging the Wrestlemania main event against Rock in his hometown.

The fact we're discussing this shows that the whole "Cena question" is intriguing us. That the guy has been so staunch in his "face-ness" turns the entire question on it's ear. With anyone else, we'd either know he was turning heel or he wasn't.....but with Cena, the company can take it in any direction they want and have him come up shining; that's how firmly established John Cena is in WWE.

Plainly, they're doing something with him now and anyone actually thinking that having Cena humbled by two major figures like Rock and Lesnar means his character is being de-emphasized is just kidding themselves. Even Hulk Hogan in WWE and WCW didn't do it this way: he was certifiably good (vitamins, prayers, vegetables).....or he was certifiably bad. There was never a question; with Hogan, there couldn't be.....he never could have displayed the depth of character necessary to make it believable. Cena can.

I think he'll turn heel, seemingly with regret and against his own will. But once he turns, it will be with a vengeance and he'll still be the biggest attraction in WWE......but from the dark side.

But, we're guessing, we're wondering.....and that's just what WWE wants.

 

[President Evil]

Storyline wise this might be the toughest year for Cena.

First quarter of the year, he has to keep up a verbal assault with the Rock where both parties are respectful towards eachother but at the same time they genuinely do not like eachother. The Rock matched Cena's remarks punch for punch and more. I dont think Cena had encountered a rival like The Rock before.

Now, to talk about present times. Brock Lesnar.

It has been said for years, that one of the main reasons Cena became the main guy, was because Lesnar left. Yes, people have said and will continue to say that Cena would have got there anyway, but Lesnar leaving was one of the key moments for this to happen. Cena filled Lesnars shoes/role later on.

I hope that Lesnar brings this up when given the mic, and he tells it right in Cena's face. So is Cena going to criticize Lesnar too for leaving to do something else? Where does it say that once you become a WWE performer, or sign a contract with them, you can no longer do any other type of profession for the rest of your life?

I know that Cena has been with WWE for 10 solid years. We know he works hard, he does tons of stuff for kids like the Make a Wish foundation, been threw thick and thin and has been loyal to the company. But it just feels like he's feeling entitled to receive an approving ovation for the things I just mentioned. How about not coming out with boring things like a bright shirt every 6 months, its predictable. Any knew moves? Guys like Austin, Rock, DX, get the crowd involved and the crowd loves it. Cena doesnt do this, he comes out and tells the crowd how loyal he's been, how the word respect means so much to him blah blah. We dont care. Give the crowd what they want and STFU.

 

[rmr21ela]

Okay so The Rock fought Austin 3 times at Mania and lost 2 before finally getting that win. Is it possible this can be the route that they go with Rock and Cena? I know its not as big as Austin vs. Rock at Mania but the rock is such a big name and legend now I don’t even think it has to be at Mania to get a similar feel.

So what do you guys think?
Does Rock get 2 wins on Cena like Austin did on him?
Does it stop at 1 match? Does Brock hurt this idea?

 

[darksideon]

I know that alot of people have gotten tired of John Cena because he is always promoted, super man always winning matches etc I do get that but I think what everyone fails to understand is that John is the one who has busted his ass off for years to make a name for himself and when people like Dwayne Johnson and Brock Lesnar left for brighter pastures John stayed. Even with making movies, doing tv appearances, granting more wishes for Make-A-Wish Foundation than ANY other celebrity ever in history he never left for truly extended periods of time. John eats, sleeps and breathes this business ~ as he told the Rock before, this is his life and he will be around for a long time.

I've been a John Cena fan since the beginning and no matter what happens, good or bad, face or heel, I am one person who would much rather have Cena shoved in my face than Dwayne Johnson anyday!

Rock accomplished all there was to in wrestling so he left before he became stale like Flair & Hogan. You can try and compare their careers all you want but Cena makes wwe films not hollywood films so the schedule is completely different. Rock has been doing make a wish since his wwe days so i don't see why people keep using that as an argument for Cena. Cena is here because he has no other options unless you believed that line from him about turning down movie roles I believe he loves the business but the fact is he tried to be the next Rock and he failed. Rock has always loved the business, he just had a falling out with the wwe at one point but Cena fans/Rock haters never want to mention that.

 

[Maximus9000]

Does anyone think that what we need and what Cena's character needs is simply a break for a few months?

Cena has been consistently on our television screens for years, seldom taking breaks. Other main eventers past and present have taken time off, whether through injury or other reasons. Austin, Rock, HHH, Jericho and Undertaker have all taken time out, before their characters got stale.

Add to that, Cena is already in his mid 30's and will not physically be able to maintain the same schedule for many more years. He's already had neck surgery and those types of problems don't go away and will likely recur if he doesn't take the odd month here & there to recuperate. I would rather see Cena have a longer career than have to retire in his late 30's like Edge and others had to.

I honestly think that if Cena took a couple of months off after getting brutally assaulted by Brock, the crowd would cheer him upon his return with a massive pop.

 

[unstoppablethombo]

To darksideon,

Im not disagreeing with you on anything, but what was the fallout that the Rock had with WWE?

The fallout that Rock had with WWE was after Wrestlemania 20 I believe, that they (WWE) let his contract just run out. They didn't try to renew it or anything. He kind of just received a phone call that he was no longer under contract with them. Now, after everything Rock did for them, I could understand him being pissed off and starting to distance himself. Then I think the nail in the coffin for a long time until he returned finally last year was that he contacted them on hosting WM a while back and no one really responded to him.

On a different note, yeah, not trying to be hating on Cena here, but he does sound kind of juvenile constantly stating how he never left, he'll always be here, blah blah blah. Like it's a crime that Rock went on to succeed in a different career that's much less injury prone where he's making more money. I'm betting Cena'll call out Lesnar for doing the same, and yes Lesnar was making more money than most of the other fighters in UFC whether he won or lost.