Ok, OutsiderDX how do you know how much merch the WWE sells and what certain faces and heels sell. How do you know that a Cena heel turn would increase ratings. If Cena turns heel who does he have to fued with besides other heels? Triple H and Shawn Michaels and thats it. Plus Cena can't turn heel now because he is fueding with Sheamus.
Is John Cena actually showing signs of a heel turn?
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brochester8
Getting Noticed By Management
I don't see Cena turning heel anytime in the near future. He is to popular and is Vince's top draw. To make people start disliking him, would hurt merchandise sales. I do see him being drafted to Smackdown soon though.
I also don't feel that Sheamus will have the belt for Wrestlemania at this point in his career they need somebody that can draw money at the biggest show of the year. I see Cena, HHH, Orton, Jericho or even Big Show being champ by then. More and likely Cena or HHH.
I do however agree that he did make a good heel character.
I also don't feel that Sheamus will have the belt for Wrestlemania at this point in his career they need somebody that can draw money at the biggest show of the year. I see Cena, HHH, Orton, Jericho or even Big Show being champ by then. More and likely Cena or HHH.
I do however agree that he did make a good heel character.
I personally don't see Cena turning heel as most have previously mentioned. As long as were are in the PG Era, and Cena sells all of the merchandise he does, there is no way he can be a heel, but I will play along with how I would turn him heel:
At the Royal Rumble, he will face Sheamus, and he will lose. Cena will then lose again the next night on Monday Night Raw to somebody like the Miz or somebody who is an up and coming Midcarder. Cena will be fed up with all the losses and say he is going back to his "roots". He will then become the rapper who just loves making fun of everybody and will go after the Undertaker saying their feud from a few years ago hasn't finished and Cena wants a rematch at WM26. Hence, turning Cena heel.
At the Royal Rumble, he will face Sheamus, and he will lose. Cena will then lose again the next night on Monday Night Raw to somebody like the Miz or somebody who is an up and coming Midcarder. Cena will be fed up with all the losses and say he is going back to his "roots". He will then become the rapper who just loves making fun of everybody and will go after the Undertaker saying their feud from a few years ago hasn't finished and Cena wants a rematch at WM26. Hence, turning Cena heel.
slimmshady
Pre-Show Stalwart
For me it is seriously a lame excuse not to have turned cena heel already. People will tell you that he is getting way too predictable and his weak arsenal of moves isn't helping his cause at all. I know that the merchandising will fall and cena will lose a large percentage of his fanbase under the ages of 14. We here it all the time from cena and others that he always thinks about the company before himself but if he truely was doing that then he and the wwe should know by now that he has become stale over the last 4 years. If he was in any other wrestling promotion, he would have already turned heel by now but it seems to me that vince cares more about the money that cena generates than he does about cena's actual performances in the ring. I'm sure that cena has a say in all of this and for some reason he isn't doing anything about it. Don't get me wrong, I use to love cena (especially his doctor-of-thugonomics gimmick), but he is really taking the p*ss. Does he care more about money than he does about his own in-ring performances? You see, if you compare cena with the other top stars in the past like the rock, you will see that even the great one knew when it was time for a change when he was becoming stale. I mean throughout the rock's career I really can't recall a time when he was seriously stale except for when he was rocky maivia. He turned heel a couple of times aswell. Come on, enough is enough, how long are they willing to go until they finally decide that a change is in need of order? Maybe when cena comes out to the entire crowd booing him (which will never happen as long as there are kids in the crowd). And as for cena being the guy that kids aspire to - wasn't hogan the same all those years back? Sorry for saying it again but it really does show that john cena is all about the money and nothing else.
miamicanes460
Dark Match Winner
I also feel that there are only a few wrestlers that Cena could "beat up" that would get him the heel heat needed. The heat on him needs to be insane, they can't just have him slowly evolve into the gimmick by beating up someone like HHH. A lot of people wouldn't even mind if HHH got his ass kicked by Cena.
I think if this turn does happen, it's gotta be Cena absolutely destroying:
a. HBK
b. Undertaker
c. Mysterio (even though I hate this idea)
I'd also love to see him attack Jeff Hardy if he ever came back. Kids would cry for years.
I think if this turn does happen, it's gotta be Cena absolutely destroying:
a. HBK
b. Undertaker
c. Mysterio (even though I hate this idea)
I'd also love to see him attack Jeff Hardy if he ever came back. Kids would cry for years.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
I love how you just pulled math comPLETELY from your ass.
Anyway, there aren't many heels to turn or faces to push that have nearly the draw power that Cena has. I don't think the WWE can risk doing shittily in merchandising sales in this economy, especially if there are some in the company that actually believe TNA is going to make for any kind of competition. I don't blame the WWE either.
At this point, I've gone beyond tired of the guy, but I've gone jaded. I just don't care whether or not I see him on TV anymore, face or heel. Sometimes he's good, sometimes he's "meh..."
Speaking as arguably the biggest Cena mark on this forum.... HE SHOULD NOT TURN HEEL!!!! However, you do bring up a discussion worth getting into so here are my two cents.
"I WILL NOT LOSE A MATCH UNTIL I GET THE BELT!" was not a heel line, or even a tweener line. That was determination. If you wanted something more than anything, you would do whatever it took to get there, right? Bingo. That's what Cena's character is doing. He's not turning heel, he's just showing determination. He never gives up, and this is just showing that in another way.
Even if he were to face Taker at Wrestlemania 26 (PLEASE make it happen, WWE! That is my dream match!) then he should still go in as the face. Taker will get cheered regardless, but Cena is the face of the company. He is also in the top tier for merchandise selling (probably THE highest, but I don't have the figures on me), he is also one of the biggest draws. He is a hero to many, including myself. He should not EVER turn heel unless they are desparate for ratings and decide to do a Hogan-NWO style heel turn. Or until they find a new face of the company. As long as Cena remains the top guy in WWE he is better off remaining a face because he is a hero to many.
I'll play along with you though and answer the heel turn question. IF it happened (and that's a GARGANTUAN "if") then I think he should turn heel during the road to Wrestlemania by claiming he's sick of being boo'ed and will get revenge on those fans by ending Taker's streak, then he does and has fully turned heel. That is how I would do it because Taker's streak is so respected that ending it could be used for the biggest heel turn since Hogan. However, I stand by my previous statement that he should remain face as the top guy because him turning heel would not be good for the company right now unless they have a new top face to replace him.
RatedRSuperstar
Dark Match Winner
There is no way they will turn John Cena heel, but I do see where you're coming from on this.
Cena saying that he won't lose another match until he wins the title has sparked up a pretty good storyline. It's obvious they want this to go on for a while since Sheamus retained the title by DQ...then I thought..
What if they have Cena's "undefeated" streak continue to WrestleMania, where he challenges the Undertaker, and still doesn't have the title? That would actually be a really intersting match to me. It would be the streak vs. Cena "keeping his word streak" (that's what i'd like to call it). That could go two different ways.
Have Cena lose, then people start booing him because he didn't keep his word. Then, say, Cena goes into a depression stage and takes some time off from the ring, comes back, then turns heel. I know, that sounds like a terrible idea, but it's a possibility. Or..
Have Cena win, end the Undertaker's undefeated streak, then have Cena come out the next night saying "I told you so, I told you I would not lose another match until I become WWE Champion". Then he challenges the champion at Backlash, and wins.. Those are both bad ideas, I'm just trying to show that a heel turn could be possible..
Cena saying that he won't lose another match until he wins the title has sparked up a pretty good storyline. It's obvious they want this to go on for a while since Sheamus retained the title by DQ...then I thought..
What if they have Cena's "undefeated" streak continue to WrestleMania, where he challenges the Undertaker, and still doesn't have the title? That would actually be a really intersting match to me. It would be the streak vs. Cena "keeping his word streak" (that's what i'd like to call it). That could go two different ways.
Have Cena lose, then people start booing him because he didn't keep his word. Then, say, Cena goes into a depression stage and takes some time off from the ring, comes back, then turns heel. I know, that sounds like a terrible idea, but it's a possibility. Or..
Have Cena win, end the Undertaker's undefeated streak, then have Cena come out the next night saying "I told you so, I told you I would not lose another match until I become WWE Champion". Then he challenges the champion at Backlash, and wins.. Those are both bad ideas, I'm just trying to show that a heel turn could be possible..
oldschool4ever
Dark Match Winner
I know this has been done, but not in ages. I think they could maybe turn cena heel slowly by having him do the whole with me or against me deal. Like Diesel did back in the day. where if you had a black glove on you were with him. They could do the same thing with cena and his shirt, hat etc.. This may even boost merchandise sales for a while. Another way i think they could have cena turn heel is to have him just start showing up on random shows whenever he feels like it after he loses his title rematch. I think if you have him just randomly come out and beat up a mid card baby face or have him bring his chain with and put it around a faces neck and throw him over the top rope and hang him. Then when the monster face comes in to save the day he backs off in cowardess. I do agree though that Vince would not do this due to sales. If vince would get off his PG era they could even go the route of saying that certain wrestlers have died because they couldnt recover after fighting him. ergo umaga. Yes this is dispicable but it definately would accomplish the task at hand
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
Among your other points, I found this one to be kind of lame. If there is a star who THE face of the company, a star like Cena, who is probably one of the most fan-interactive stars of the company, and he all of a sudden did something shocking, something Hogan-esque, that would probably draw more. People aren't going to turn off the TV once they see Cena became the bad guy. If anything, it's going to intrigue people to keep watching in order to find out why he's all of a sudden some mega-douche.
Take Jericho for example. When he first turned heel last year, I recall him having some very legitimate criticisms about who the fans cheer and who they boo. Shawn Michaels did all this dirty shit while the fans still cheered while people like Jericho were the only honest ones around, yet they got booed. I mean, even from a storyline point of view, completely blocking everything I knew about booking and behind-the-scenes shit, I was going for Jericho, because he seemed to be the only with any kind of honest perspective.
For people like me who really did follow the story, I don't really care what was going on, on the rest of Raw, it kept me watching weekly. It was one of the best feuds I've actually ever seen in retrospect.
His "hero" status as a superstar is a crappy reason against a heel turn. Especially if creative steps it up and creates some good "gray area" storylines with actual innovative stories, rather than "determined good guy vs. cocky/evil bad guy."
That's not what I said though. Turning Cena heel wouldn't turn fans away, but it would be a bad idea to turn him unless they have a new top face ready to take his place as the face of the company.
I was rooting for both of them because I like both of them. That feud was so entertaining that I didn't care who won. Now, Jericho wasn't the face of the company which is why it was ok for him to do such a huge heel turn because he wasn't the top face.
Agreed completely. Jericho VS HBK was an awesome feud from beginning to end.
No it's not. It's just like Hogan. That is why WWF never turned him. WCW did it and yes it brought ratings, but the fans who he was a hero to were too upset for words. Look it up again on video, they throw things at him during his entire promo. Cena is today's Hogan whether the smarks want to grow up accept that or not. He needs to remain a face. The longer they wait to turn him heel, the more effective it would be. Just like Hogan. If they have someone who can step up and become the top face, then turning Cena would be possible but right now it would be a terrible idea because he is the face of the business and cannot be replaced as easily as some may think.
I'm willing to debate this further if you still disagree.
We're in an age where heel/face ratio isn't looked upon as important nowadays check 1997 out, wrestling isn't black and white, (heel and face) it's shades of gray, check Austin out, Cena is playing the same roll as Austin did 13 years ago, the only difference is Austin could wrestle, and wrestling back then appealed to an older fan base, today we have pre teenagers going to events, so I doubt we'll see a Cena heel turn (officially) until WWE drop the PG rating, but I definently see glimpies of Cena adding more heel mannerisums/attitude to his persona, but Cena has that Hulk Hogan/Stone Cold attitude about "fighting" and never being beating 1-2-3 CLEAN.
I don't think he's showing signs at all, he's done this shtick before where it's him against the entire WWE.
The best heel turns are the ones that are sudden and are unexpected, that's why when people typically think of great heel turns you really have to point to Hogan.. but the WWE doesn't have a storyline of the level of the outsiders right now to align Cena with so he's pretty much on his own.
He's going to need an entirely new character, none of the rap, none of the BS. If he could play someone that is bitter, angry, and takes it out on the fans with some cheap heat that would work extremely well. I can only imagine some of the kids faces if Cena came out telling them to go to hell, it would be priceless.
The best heel turns are the ones that are sudden and are unexpected, that's why when people typically think of great heel turns you really have to point to Hogan.. but the WWE doesn't have a storyline of the level of the outsiders right now to align Cena with so he's pretty much on his own.
He's going to need an entirely new character, none of the rap, none of the BS. If he could play someone that is bitter, angry, and takes it out on the fans with some cheap heat that would work extremely well. I can only imagine some of the kids faces if Cena came out telling them to go to hell, it would be priceless.
VintageWWE
Pre-Show Stalwart
I don't see any signs of a Cena heel turn. I seriously doubt it will ever happen. Cena sells too much merchandise for Vince to turn him heel. It would be a horrible business decision. From a fan's standpoint I would love to see Cena turn heel just to see how that would shake things up. But that's just a stupid decision, some people are meant to be face and some are meant to be heel.
I_AM_AWSOME
Dark Match Jobber
i think cena will never turn heel he draws the big bucks for the wwe and for himself. Soon he is ganna turn to a movie star like the rock and hopefully he will sell out like the rock did. but if he did turn heel he would still get big pops look at batista for example he gets booed a little bit bet gets cheared by the same people who always did it will never work.
As much as I would love to see Cena turn heel, as it would at least spark some interest(at least for me) in his charecter, I highly doubt it will happen within the next 3-4 years. John Cena makes millions for Vince and even if he knew it would be interesting he would never do it because he knows he would lose money. John Cena is just a money maker for the WWE. He isn't a very good wrestler, he can just tell a good story and cut a good promo. I don't think, that after these past few years and all the things he's done and said, I don't think he would be that convincing as a heel. Maybe later in his career after his popularity has dropped, he could have a storyline where he is jealous of some popular newcomer.
slimmshady
Pre-Show Stalwart
But how long is long enough. Cena is already in his early 30's and as far as I'm concerned turning him into an effective heel would mean that he would more or else need to return to his rapper gimmick. However if you wait 4-5 years for that to happenn, the problem is it just won't cut the chase on a man who is in his late 30's. Can you imagine a guy who is almost 40 dressing up in jerseys and rapping. For me personally, it just won't work and by delaying the heel turn past the optimum stage, it will make matters worse for cena in terms of a long-term run with the wwe. It has been about 8 years since cena made his debut and during that time, he was heel for only about 1 year. As for the rest of the 7 years, he was babyface. Even the legends of wrestling were never face for that long.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
Let's look at this from a heel's prospective. Sheamus wasn't a mega-heel until they had him put Cena through a few tables and kick him in the head a few times. Otherwise, he was just some guys that squashed jobbers every week. Then they throw him into the title picture from out of nowhere land, and he's slowly starting to get some heat, and in the past few weeks, his name has grown to be about as big as Jericho's or maybe even Orton's.
Why couldn't they do that with a face? There are plenty of people Cena could feud with. Kofi, Legacy if they turn face, DX (god forbid)... there are plenty of people who could take his place. Hell, with the draft coming up, we could even grab a few people from other shows.
Only a few weeks before that, he was challenging Orton for the title. That's the main event feud. He was a pretty big face.
That was a good thing, though. They wanted people to be so messed up about it that they were throwing things in the ring. That's good heat. That was probably the best heel heat Hogan has ever had in his career, and I bet he loved every moment of it.
I'm not getting why you're comparing a Cena heel turn, something you're thinking of in a negative light, with one of the greatest heel turns in wrestling history. That pretty much put WCW over as the top player in the business and got them higher ratings than the WWE for, what was it, 90+ weeks? I should know that number...
Sure, you sound like a cool guy to debate with.
Depends. If they have a new top face ready to replace him and really need a huge swerve moment, then they might turn him.
Not necessarily. He could be a heel version of his current self if he just got fed up with the people who boo him. Not everyone who turns heel changes their entire gimmick or revive an old one.
Hogan was 43 when he turned heel. Cena's only 32 and in better shape than Hogan was at this time 20 years ago. Waiting a few years before a heel turn won't harm him.
Agreed though. The rapper gimmick, although I miss it myself, is probably not coming back.
Hogan was face for around 12 years. Cena's only been face for 6 years. He can make it a while longer before your argument becomes valid. Cena is today's Hogan, he should remain face until they have a new top face ready to take that spot. Cena is the top guy and they are likely not going to waste his heel turn until they REALLY need a shocking moment because once they turn him, that's it. He shouldn't turn anytime soon.
Care to debate this further?
Sheamus is not a mega-heel. He's an upper midcard heel who will become a main eventer soon and how long it takes for that to happen depends on how long this title reign goes. His name is nowhere near Jericho or Orton yet, but he may get there one day.
Cena can feud with Legacy, DX (again....), and even Kofi as a face. He's had face VS face feuds before, they have a match out of respect to see who the better man is. Not as entertaining in the long run if they do those one after another, as he needs a heel to bring out his rage.... but it could still be done. Cena could face anybody and still make the feud great.... and that includes face VS face feuds.
Jericho challenged Orton for the title in December 2007. He turned heel on HBK in May 2008. Nice try.
He was great as a face though, agreed.Exactly. That's why they need to wait to turn Cena. They should wait until they REALLY need a shocking moment. His turn will be up there with Hogan's and Stone Cold's because he would essentially betray his fans (other than those like me who have remained fans his whole career).... WWE should not waste such a massive opportunity because once Cena turns heel, that's it. They will have done the biggest turn they possibly could make in a LONG time.
It's not that I see a Cena heel turn in a negative light, what I see in a negative light is WWE wasting it when it could be HUGE if they wait long enough until they really need it. WWE does not need that big of a swerve right now. WCW did back then and it was huge. History can repeat itself. Cena's staying a face until another huge groundbreaking swerve is needed. Trust me on this one.
Sure, you sound like a cool guy to debate with.
Thank you. I enjoy seeing what other people have to say, even when I disagree with them.
That aside, I don't think Cena will turn heel anytime soon because WWE just does not need to waste that opportunity right now, they should wait until they need something HUGE and then turn him.
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
He's a main eventer right now. The fact that he holds the title puts him up in the main event as we speak. I mean, he's feuding and beating the crap out of Cena on a weekly basis. They've set him up as a mega-heel; the crowds are just a bit slow on the uptake, but he gets more and more heat every week. I mean, you can't determine the status of a wrestler by his skill in the ring. That just determines how good of a performer he is.
Like, he might be a crappy main eventer as we speak, but he's still a main eventer with the WWE title.
As much as I like face vs. face respect feuds, they get old quick, and they get boring with Cena because he does them all the damn time... or at least he tries to. He has this air about him where he feels as if he's competing against someone in a respectful battle of wrestling skill, rather than fighting against this giant, evil Irish guy who just wants to see Cena unconscious while he holds the belt.
Jericho challenged Orton for the title in December 2007. He turned heel on HBK in May 2008. Nice try.
lol Give me a break, it still was a few weeks, with a mini-JBL feud in between where he set up his character to be rather violently vengeful before he went into his feud with HBK as he transitioned to a heel. That feud was necessary for his character, so that feud lasted like 3 weeks.
The point being, he was in the main event with Orton, that feud kept the crowd's eye on him throughout his short feud with JBL, and that feud with HBK brought him up even more steps. If the HBK/Jericho feud wasn't a main event feud, I don't know what was.
They have about one million and four opportunities between this monday and forever from now to do something shocking with Cena. He could do something with Bret on monday, seeing as Bret is set to come back for the next few weeks. I can't really think of anything else off the top of my head, but believe me, the WWE has a few situations already set up where they could add a Cena heel turn. Or they could easily set something up to draw a bunch of fans for the TNA war.
Well when do you think they should write something big? I would imagine if they were planning something, it would be after Bret Hart. If they threw everything at us at once, things would get convoluted, so they may have a bunch of shit planned out to compete with TNA in the next few weeks/months.
If Cena WERE hinting at a heel turn, he's taking his time.
Well, sort of. He's main eventing, but a "main eventer" generally means those who are established in the upper card and are almost always in the main event scene. Sheamus is too new to be called one yet. Having the championship puts him up there right now, but once he loses it I bet he will get knocked down and will have to make his way back up to main event level. We'll see.
I agree they get boring if too many are done. After a good "respect" title match between two faces, it's nice to see a "revenge" feud between a face and heel due to the heel's actions instead because it's different and brings out the rage in faces like Cena. However, are you seeing Cena VS Sheamus as both a respect feud and a revenge feud? I'm not quite seeing it onscreen, but I see the point you are making if so.
The JBL thing was over by the road to Wrestlemania. Jericho took the IC title and lost the MITB match. JBL had that pointless feud with Finlay. It was 2 months later that the HBK stuff started because HBK VS Jericho didn't even begin until after HBK's Batista feud ended after Backlash.
HBK VS Jericho was definitely a main event feud. He had been in the upper card before his return though. Undisputed Champion reign, and his feud with Cena in 05 to name a couple.
Indeed they do. I don't think they would do it this early though. Vince brought in Hart because they need to make sure no one watches Impact (I'll still watch both), but he probably still doesn't see them as big enough of a threat to turn Cena. TNA would have to reach WCW's level of a threat first, that would make more sense.
I think that makes sense. It could be used as a way to keep fans away from TNA, but I still say that turning Cena should be a last resort. What if they turned him, but had no top face to replace him? Kofi's not quite ready yet, DX is in the tag title scene, and MVP's.... well... MVP.
Yep. They should wait and see if they even need to turn him. Let him go tweener if they need to, but a full heel turn should be saved because they can use it as a mega-swerve if they need it badly, and it would work perfectly if they did that since nothing TNA did could compete with that, even if they had managed to reach WCW's level by then.
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