**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[rge2010]

I see Cena going on a losing streak now. Rock beats him at Mania, Brock will probably beat him at Summerslam and maybe even see him go into another programme with Kane before he finally snaps and embraces the hate.

Rock is returning for Summerslam.
Brock has returned a face.
Punk is the WWE Champion.

Is Cena needed as a face anymore? That long awaited heel turn could arrive before the year is out.

 

[rge2010]

The fallout that Rock had with WWE was after Wrestlemania 20 I believe, that they (WWE) let his contract just run out. They didn't try to renew it or anything. He kind of just received a phone call that he was no longer under contract with them. Now, after everything Rock did for them, I could understand him being pissed off and starting to distance himself. Then I think the nail in the coffin for a long time until he returned finally last year was that he contacted them on hosting WM a while back and no one really responded to him.

On a different note, yeah, not trying to be hating on Cena here, but he does sound kind of juvenile constantly stating how he never left, he'll always be here, blah blah blah. Like it's a crime that Rock went on to succeed in a different career that's much less injury prone where he's making more money. I'm betting Cena'll call out Lesnar for doing the same, and yes Lesnar was making more money than most of the other fighters in UFC whether he won or lost.

The contract running out thing is a myth. Vince McMahon is a smart man and he knows how to conduct business and make money. We all know about Vinces fetish with mainstream media and The Rock had this in abundance even back in 2004!!! He wouldnt let his top star just leave like that.

The Rock tried to distance himself from Wrestling because he wanted to be taken serious as an actor. What with Eddie dying from drug abuse and Benoit killing his family, it is hardly surprising he wanted to make it in Hollywood as Dwyane Johnson and not The Rock. He didnt want to be known as the WWE Superstar anymore because he WASNT! Also, whenever he appeared in a film with The Rock name, Vince got a credit as an executive producer because he part owned 'The Rock' name.

People forget The Rock returned in 2007 to hype the Vince vs Trump match up! He wasnt in the ring but did it via a video package. He returned once again in 2008 to induct his Father to the HOF and then again on Smackdowns 10th anniversary to say he was going to guest host a Raw! The IWC went apeshit when this didnt happen LOL. Well it did, just 14 months later.

As for Cena, will he have the bollocks to call Brock out on leaving the business? Rock is a good guy. Brock is an animal. Brock would kill him if he wanted to.

 

[#Zombienatureboy]

John Cena did bust his ass for WWE for years as did many others before him. And Cena will continue to bust his ass and do what he is told to do. VKM is always going to do what is going to make money at the time. SuperCena made a lot of money for WWE. Now, SuperCena has become stale so it's time for a change. Cena may not be happy, but VKM is going to come up with something that Cena is ok with. At the end of the day it's all about money. Cena is getting paid. And, in fact, this is probably great for his character.

But, only time will tell. WWE could be way off on all of this but, at least last night, it didn't seem like they were off. It was a great episode of RAW. What I expect from the weekly shows.

 

[18dionlyone]

In no way is this a Cena bash cause normally im on his side..But man It has not been a good few days for this man has it? lol I mena you lose the biggest amtch and then to add to that the man who was dominate in the early 2000's is back and hits you with the F5....I speaking merely in storyline I know its scripted lol....I'm so excited cause I was wondering " well now that Cena has lost whats next for him" Im excited to see where everything will fall..unlike WWE haters who at the sight of somehting bad they nitpick and bitch Ill watch it and see how things will play out...Cause those types of fans will never be happy...you were tired of Cena being world champ..he hasnt been WWE champ since last summer..you said he never loses..hes lost two Wrestlemanias in a row and three in five years....Ill admit the whole bright colors and hat and wristbands are a bit much but come on cut this man a break lol

Now with that being said

When Lesnar returned last night I oticed the ones wearing Cenas shirts were stunned and frozen at the sight of Cena getting..well lets just say "handled" twice in 24 hours...im not going to say what I want to happen to Cena in this storyline but I can guess he will either face Rock or LEsnar at Summerslam..or both *imagine that huh a triple threat match with the three of them* or at mania...either way i think we should all sit back enjoy this ride and tune in...and can I say Miami is the best crowd I have ever heard!?!? like i wish they could take that crowd with them all over the world the rest of the world sucks lol maybe this will turn into a "can you top that" with different crowds

 

[Peoples_Champ]

Cena wont be turning heel, at least any time soon. The feud with Lesnar is going to be a rehash of his feud with The Rock, with Cena talking about how he needs to win. He's obviously going to lose to Lesnar as well, but this is not to tease a heel turn, but to earn him greater sympathy.

Hopefully after the Lesnar match, Cena gets a month off or something and comes back in time to be a surprise entrant in a MITB match. That's how I would book it, at least.

 

[GrandSword]

What's next for Cena? Well...

1. Have to consider what sort of contract is Brock on? Is it like the Rock's where it will be a year lead up to Cena/Brock WM29? With only a few appearences or is he an active part of the roster?

2. Therefore either Brock is once again the top guy and takes Cena out for a few months for a well deserved holiday? or

3. Is Cena's confidence shot, and he goes on a losing streak to guys like Ziggler, DBryan, Miz? Building sympathy, trying to get fans back on side with him...

4. Cena says he's mad and he's not going to be this guy with the target on his back any more. Stays face but goes on a rampage (not sure if he can pull this one off with his new fruity green outfit)

5. Heel Turn????

 

[rge2010]

All this talk of turning Cena Heel.

People do not seem to get it, the day of Baby Face V Heel is going (thankfully).

People are bored with it, it is now a case of we will cheer for who we want and to hell with what you want.

Nonsense. There are more tweeners but face and heel will be around for a long time yet. Faces dont attack the crowd in promos, and heels dont suck up to them. That will never change.

Cena will turn on the WWE Universe eventually.

 

[#Zombienatureboy]

I don't see Cena making an "official" heel turn. I don't see him coming out and turning on the audience. He will continue to do what he does and the crowd will continue to do what they do. Cheer him or boo him. It's up to the audience. Cena may start to do some "heel" type things, but I don't ever see him coming out and telling the fans to shove it the way Hogan did when he turned into NWO Hollywood.

 

[HEELKris]

John Cena is not turning heel anytime soon. He is the face of the company, why would they want to turn him heel? CM Punk isn't ready (and never will be) to replace him as the top dog. Maybe, just MAYBE Ryback (Skip Sheffield) could be the one, since Vince has big plans for him and he actually looks like a wrestler.

 

[Maximus9000]

I agree. I don't see a heel turn for Cena on the horizon. It's not like WWE have many they could count on to take over, apart from Punk who is stil fairly fresh as a top draw face and who knows if the crowd will start to turn on him too at some point.

So if you were Vince, who would you look to replace Cena with as #1 face of the company? It has to be someone Cena's age (mid 30's) or younger, no point giving his spot to an injury prone veteran.

I look at the roster now and don't see anyone quite ready to step up to the ultimate plate. Sheamus, Orton...no. Miz could have huge potential as a face, but is yet to be tested in that role. Guys like Kofi, Bryan, Ziggler and Ryder are nowhere near ready.

The only possible advantage is that a heel Cena could be used to put over up and coming faces, but that would not work because the crowd that used to boo Cena as a face would cheer for him as a heel.

If they were going to turn Cena heel, they would have had him cheat to win against The Rock, much like Austin did over a decade ago.

I'm more interested to see Cena's character perhaps hit rock bottom, go away for a while and come back with perhaps a more aggressive edge, some new entrance music and clothes that are more suitable for a guy in his mid 30's.

 

[JakeAdams]

5 reasons why I hate John Cena!

1. Honestly, he is holding a lot of talent back from blossoming - all be it its not entirely his fault bc its not his decision, but he does have some pull backstage.

2. He honestly annoys me when he tries to be "witty" on the mic. He is no Rock, he is no Jericho, he is no edge, and he is certainly no Punk.

3. I get bored watching him wrestle - i tape Raw so I can fast forward his matches - sure he works his ASS OFF but its the same ol' thing every single time.

4. His look is just not that great either. Chain Gang era was AWESOME I must admit, but the cleaner goody two shoes version this day is too CLEAN.

5. Because I am an Edge, Punk, Rock, Y2J, Barrett fan ... prob 4-5 of his biggest enemies

I will add that watching his repertoire made all of his promos or criticism of the Rock irrelvent. I could care less if the Rock wrestles once a year if the guy who "wrestles" does 4 f**king moves the whole match. A bearhug, corner shoulder block, five knuckle people's elbow rip off, or that firemens carry slam. My god could you be a less devasting character. I believe the only way to truely turn this guy heel with his "good guy" demeanor, would be to change his attire. I say this because, when they attempted to turn Austin heel, his issue, is that he still looked like stone cold. I envision Cena adopting a wrestler gimmick. Long tights, long pauses, I dunno, its a pipe dream. His lack of moveset will make his heel persona that much cooler.

 

[Airklot]

First I want to say I am both a Rock & Cena fan. It did make me sick to see the company's top draw lose to a wrestler that has been gone for nearly 10 years.

The reason the Rock won wasn't just because they were in Miami. I am sure the main reason Rock won is so he could be the only wrestler to beat 3 Icons from the different generation at wrestle mania. 80's Hogan, 90's Austin now 00's Cena. From that aspect I understand the rocks win. Some may say that made cena look weak, but I disagree. for 1 reason. It's not like the rock out wrestled cena for the win. I think having the finish scripted for cena to lose from the mistake of trying to mock the rock was the best way to keep cena from looking weak.

Rather you hate cena or not. cena's gimmick is where he may lose a couple of battles but always wins the war, so I can assure you this was not the last match for rock and cena. I could be wrong but every since cena has been on top. I can't remember a wrestler that cena did not eventually go over even after maybe losing even a couple of times at the end of the feud cena has always prevailed. I highly doubt the rock is going to be that one wrestler that cena can't overcome so cena losing one match to the rock doesn't make the rock superior to cena.

With all of that said. Here is what I predict will happen.

It looks like they are going to have cena and brock feud and I can see cena putting brock away by summer slam maybe brock being written off tv until the royal rumble then have brock and cena as the last 2 standing in the ring at royal rumble cena throws out brock sending cena to wrestle mania, then some way or another brock and undertaker will wrestle at wrestle mania. If they are going to give the rock the wwe title then it will probably be at the royal rumble and then cena will beat the rock at wrestle mania 29. Which I am sure will probably be the rocks last match anyways.

 

[The Crock]

I will add that watching his repertoire made all of his promos or criticism of the Rock irrelvent. I could care less if the Rock wrestles once a year if the guy who "wrestles" does 4 f**king moves the whole match. A bearhug, corner shoulder block, five knuckle people's elbow rip off, or that firemens carry slam. My god could you be a less devasting character. I believe the only way to truely turn this guy heel with his "good guy" demeanor, would be to change his attire. I say this because, when they attempted to turn Austin heel, his issue, is that he still looked like stone cold. I envision Cena adopting a wrestler gimmick. Long tights, long pauses, I dunno, its a pipe dream. His lack of moveset will make his heel persona that much cooler.

You forgot Top Rope Leg Drop! Up to 5!

Wow, you guys are so cutting edge. I've never heard anybody talk about Cena's moveset before! Now, even though you're completely wrong (Cena's got a fine repertoire of moves, well over the 4 or 5 you speak of), let me explain to you WHY you're wrong and why what you're saying really just doesn't matter. Guys like Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan both had a certain set of moves they would go to in each match. Yes, I'm sure Flair could have gone much deeper than that, but he almost always stuck to about 5 moves that finished up a match. Hell, Flair followed one blueprint for every single match for his ENTIRE career (get beaten down the whole match, comeback, work the leg, end it), but you all blame Cena for doing the same thing, while Flair is revered as a God. Some of the IWC's most beloved wrestlers and "technicians," Bret Hart comes to mind, all did this same thing too. I don't care if you're Dean Malenko and you know 1,000 moves -- you do what works and if your four or five moves work every single time, then do not deviate from that. I could give less than two shits about how many moves Cena uses in a match, because he will still be the best damn professional wrestler in the world. Cena can tell a better story and put on a better match, than most will ever get a whiff of.

Now, I also don't buy for one second that Cena won't be able to turn heel with his current direction either. Since when are jorts an exclusively face thing to wear? Maybe his t-shirts will have to look different, but his look and his gimmick can largely remain the same. Cena's laid some of the seeds for a heel turn down and even after this Monday's promo, I believe it's completely possible Cena turns heel in the near future. Cena's promo dug a lot deeper than what was said -- his demeanor, the way he played of the crowd -- this wasn't the usual John Cena. There's still many chances to turn and I don't think we should dismiss that as a possibility.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

You know I'm really sick of Both Cena supporters and Cena haters. Both sides seem to be so vicious in their claims and usually over the top. I was once a huge Cena Hater and used the same excuses that most do but when I realized the 5 moves of doom apply to all main eventers, the pandering to the fans apply to most faces, the shoved down our throats and always in the main event or center of the show thing applied to Austin Rock Hogan Taker Mcmahon HHH Hogan and so on...so basically all my points were moot. But I think my only legit opinion is that I dont like his character and it doesnt appeal to me and being with him in my face all the time makes it hard for me to enjoy the show. But then usually I love his opponent which is why I watch their segments promos and matches. But also there are others I despise like Santino and Ryder whom I can always fast forward or change the channel because I can care less for their opponents. My point is Cena haters should grow up and admit only legitimate claims that cannot be used for other wrestlers that they like and the Cena lovers need to get of his balls and understand he is no superhuman and no better than all the big stars and faces of the company before him. just my opinion. Thank You

 

[AnvilForever]

I read Madden's latest article concerning Cena's recent beating at the hands of part-timers. To be honest, I'm not too worried about Cena. He'll be back. Right now, Lesnar needs to go through some of the top guys on the roster to remind everyone of how dominant he was. If not, he'll just become another Jericho: a talent who is a great heel but right now is simply there to enhance the current talent. I think that's great for Jericho, but not for Lesnar. Lesnar should establish himself with either a victory over Cena or a brutal post-match beatdown.

As for Cena, he will not get knocked down too far down the card. I am confident in this belief because of The Rock's claim that he will be WWE champion again. If he is serious about this, then Rock and Cena will cross paths again, and when they do, the top title will be on the line. Cena WILL be WWE champion again, either in order to create the rematch against the Rock or to take the title from Rock to even the score.

And when he does win the title again., it will be the most meaningful title win Cena will have had in a long time. Why? Because of what has happened in the past weekend. If they play this right, Lesnar can be established as a juggernaut, leading to Cena questioning his skills and his legacy until a defining breakthrough win over Lesnar reestablishes his confidence and puts him back in the title chase leading to a rematch. That title win would signify Cena reestablishing himself as one of the top men, and I think that complaints of such a title win being just another example of Cena being shoved down throats would be unjustified.

 

[DetectiveZelix]

Too true my friend. As much as I am annoyed by Cena's character I do believe this transition is good for him and get some of haters off of him. Despite the reception he recieved I believe even the haters respect the mans work and all that he's done. Just sick of that character type period being in our faces. So with this transition Cena will almost hit rock bottom (no PUN intended) before rising again. I felt a bit of sympathy because I was surprised he'd let himself get F'd over this bad again but anyways as the above poster said when Cena defeats Brock after a long battle he will be more respected because he was willing to fall. But then of course Brock can go over which is what I want to happen so Cena can truly hit the bottom. I'd say after this loss he should take some time off, give the haters a little time to forget him and so on then when say maybe Lord Tensai or some dominant heel is practically running Raw. Cena can make a triumphant return to stop him. during this time Brock can be in SD fueding with Sheamus for the WHC and on Raw Lord Tensai can climb the ranks and eventually win the WWE Championship, everyones sick of him and Cena returns to challenge him. gets beat a couple of times then gains the will to win and wins the WWE title and Rock returns during the Rumble eliminating Lesnar last to win it and challenge Cena for the belt with Cena winning or maybe making it a three way with Brock. thats something I'd love to see. Just my opinion. Thank you. Now when I say Lord Tensai I dont specifically mean him I mean any dominant heel as I'm not too impressed with him just yet

 

[Nada]

So they are paying Lesnar a massive amounts of money, even more than they paid Goldberg, to be a part time wrestler

So this means Lesnar almost has to win at Extreme Rules, yet that makes Cena look "weak" by losing to Rocky and now Lesnar, 2 guys who are part timers, not something you would expect.

Yet its even worse if Cena wins, as it kills the feud, makes Lesnar look just like any other guy and fans would probably resent Cena even more, afterall no way in hell can Cena beat a legitimate former UFC heavyweight champion.

Its hard to book Cena, fans booed him out of the building in Miami, WWE had to have Rock win just to make the show good and send the fans happy home. Now Cena is the face here (ofc) but is getting booed still, yet Lesnar is the heel, yet fans want to cheer for him. Its such a odd feud already.

Ill remember the Rock vs Cena match, and when Lesnar came out, but i think one of the best moments and most significant in John Cenas career is his promo on Raw after WM, where one simple sentence and reaction form the crowd summed up World Wrestling Entertainment in the last 7-8 years, John mentioned that maybe he should be a bad guy and the fans actually WANTED him to bash them, they WANTED John Cena to turn heel, but he pulled back and took the "higher road", prompting the fans to boo him.


Most polarizing wrestler perhaps of all time, at least his on screen presence, you cant tell me that fans wanting a wrestler to trash them isent a bit weird and surreal, i never thought id see that and ive been watching wrestling since 1992.

Its gotten to a point where that is his entire gimmick, ever since his feud with Miz, which was really about the Rock vs Cena, then Punk, then Kane, Rock again and now Lesnar it is as if his new "gimmick" is that he is a face yet every opponent bar Kane the fans want more to win.

I dont think this has ever happened in wrestling, your top star, top merch seller, top babyface is the biggest "heel" in the company at the same time.

 

[Maximus9000]

I don't like the fact that WWE have made Brock a heel. They should have just let them both go at it and let the fans decide, without having 1) Brock pander to Laurinaitis or 2) Cena act like the goody-goody again.

It could and should be a great feud, but WWE should just keep both guys neutral of the whole face/heel thing, which doesn't apply to either of them in the conventional sense. They'll kill it by ramming Cena down our throats as a babyface and having Brock cut heel promos that he is not good at.

 

[The Champ]

I don't like the fact that WWE have made Brock a heel. They should have just let them both go at it and let the fans decide, without having 1) Brock pander to Laurinaitis or 2) Cena act like the goody-goody again.

It could and should be a great feud, but WWE should just keep both guys neutral of the whole face/heel thing, which doesn't apply to either of them in the conventional sense. They'll kill it by ramming Cena down our throats as a babyface and having Brock cut heel promos that he is not good at.

What I've noticed about it is that, although they are pushing Brock as a heel, they don't seem to be opposed to the fans cheering him over Cena. The commentators have constantly remarked on how "the place has come unglued for Lesnar," etc., and the camera always cuts to pro-Brock signs. I think they're letting the fans decide more than you think. He kind of needs to be a heel for storyline purposes and so he gets the best possible feuds in this run, but WWE isn't discouraging people from cheering him at all.

 

[Davi323]

What I've noticed about it is that, although they are pushing Brock as a heel, they don't seem to be opposed to the fans cheering him over Cena. The commentators have constantly remarked on how "the place has come unglued for Lesnar," etc., and the camera always cuts to pro-Brock signs. I think they're letting the fans decide more than you think. He kind of needs to be a heel for storyline purposes and so he gets the best possible feuds in this run, but WWE isn't discouraging people from cheering him at all.

If you remember, Stone Cold Steve Austin was originally booked as a heel too, despite crowds cheering for him just about immediately after he uttered his famous "Austin 3:16 says I just whipped your ass" comment to Jake the Snake Roberts, who was the face in that feud. In fact, Steve Austin was frequently booked as a complete anti-hero (one of the reasons Randy Orton is often compared to him). The WWE recognizes that there is a rather large anti-Cena contingent among their fans. I am not one of those, but I would be deluding myself if I believed that they not only didn't exist, but that they existed as a good sized chunk. So, why not book Brock Lesnar that way? The Cena fans can boo Brock's heelish behavior, while the anti-Cena crowd has a new villian that they can side with. Let's be honest here, if it wasn't Brock, it would just be someone else getting the anti-Cena cheers...however it might not be quite as loud. Brock brings something more to the table than just being the next feud for Cena, he would have had his own fanbase anyway. The WWE realized that, and decided to run with it. Hell, for as much as I supported Cena against the Rock, my loyalties are definitely divided here. I love Brock Lesnar.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Hell, for as much as I supported Cena against the Rock, my loyalties are definitely divided here. I love Brock Lesnar.

Understood. For whatever reasons, many fans have decided to hate John Cena.....and Creative has done an amazing job of making that hatred work for the company. They realize that a lot of folks are going to boo Cena no matter who his opponent is, so they've used that wave to boost Cena's opponent.

Plus, in Brock's case, he's an old favorite who has returned after a very long absence. Whenever that happens, people are so happy to see him that they're going to cheer at first, regardless of what he does. That's a factor that doesn't last forever; after awhile, people get used to seeing Brock and start to embrace his "heel" persona. All of this is further put over by the fact of Cena getting so much negative reaction. If Brock came out and started beating on A.J., we wouldn't be seeing him cheered, would we?

All of this also shows the genius of Chris Jericho. Never mind that people were happy to see him back; he had no plans to start out as a good guy, so he held the audience in his hand and told us nothing those first couple of weeks.....and he did it by saying nothing. We didn't know what his intentions were, did we? Genius, I tell you!

 

[pipebomber]

I dont know if this should be in the john cena thread or not... its not a gripe, its not about a heel turn or the match with rock, but if it needs moved, please move it.

If you look through out history, alot of big names who were starting to lose their appeal with the audience started a faction. Usually this faction had a big impact on the business and made for great TV.

There is Hulk Hogan, a guy many compare Cena to. He started what was the largest faction ever in the nWo. We all know that the nWo made for great television and many memorable moments in the monday night wars.

You have Brett Hart who was great, and allthough never lost support in canada was being booed by American fans. he got the Heart Foundation back together but this time not as a tag team but as a faction. the Canada Vs America fued made many memorable moments.

Shawn Michaels Created Degeneration X, which was a sign of changing times and the beginning of the attitude era.

Speaking of DX, the guy who took over for shawn as the leader of DX when Shawn was forced to retire, HHH, went on to create Evolution, which groomed 2 stars for future sucess in Randy Orton and Batista.

My questions are

Do You Think John Cena Should start a faction?
if so who do you think should be in it?


I am not sold on he should... but I think it could deffinantly work, I dont think you need to turn him heel, you could have his faction taking on John Lauranitis and who ever he supports at the time, and then move on to Vickie Dolph and Swagger.

I think some good candidates for the faction would be Kofi Kingston, who desperatly needs something to do and would fit well with Cena with their friendly personalities, Zack Ryder, he needs to get a bit more serious and being involved in main event fueds would help with that, and him and cena already have the connection, my last pick, the muscle is a toss up for me, it should either be Mason Ryan or Ryback...

 

[Psyclone]

i think his current storyline needs to run its course with lesnar before any talk of stables is formed.... However in the right circumstances it could work well and the people you mentioned could be good choices, however that having been said its WAYYY to early still to bring it up... I'd say shelve the concept for the time being..

 

[mholly32]

Not a bad idea, but why create a faction with face wrestlers? The only good stables ever have all been heels, it will be John Cena on his own vs Team Johnnys stable. I can't see Cena teaming with Punk or anyone, I can see this feud lasting 2-3 months then Cena will have a feud with someone else whilst Brock gets tested to see if he is at main event WM level.

 

[Reflection]

yeah thìs will probably get moved into the book thìs! section. Coming to the topic, No i don't think Cena should form a stable. The reason being that cena is a character that beats the odds alone, like a fighter that doesn't give up. If he forms a stable to take out brock, it will be a heelish move, which I don't think will happen.