**MERGED** John Cena Heel Turn Speculation

[MaverickAZ]

Well, so much for that, pretty uneventful main event. Guess it was just a tease after all

 

[Buster]

His tweet didn’t promise any surprises or twists or anything like that, it purely says that he thanks people for the support over the years, which heightens the importance of the match against Nexus.

He says that it’s an epic day in WWE's history which, storyline wise, it is. WWE and its performers were threatened by Nexus.

You have to remember Cena's twitter page is kayfabe, much in the same way a basketball player, or a football player might hype a big clash against a top team by saying it will be epic, or a great day in the team’s history- so does this.

 

[shattered dreams]

Because, shittered, Dixie does it every five minutes for surprises that aren't special, or for some that don't happen at all. Cena was hyping up the PPV that gave us the shocking return of Daniel Bryan. He promised a surprise THAT DELIVERED.

That's the difference between this tweet and the ones your precious Dixie does.

I am not getting in a flame war with you. I do find it ironic that you claim I am trolling you though.

On the subject at hand, I do not see how Danielson returning justifies Cena's tweet. Cena said nothing about a surprise (am I the only one that can read a tweet without seeing "surprise" even though it is not in the tweet?). He said it would be an epic day in WWE history and that it would be one of the most important days in his career. As far as his career goes that is personal opinion for him but this would seem to be an odd choice, misleading at best in my opinion. What was so important about this for Cena's career? Absolutely nothing. As far as a Danielson return being epic I have to disagree. It was not that surprising and it is still just Danielson. Taker-HBK at WM25 was epic. When Tara takes her helmet off there is going to be nothing epic about it. Tommy dreamer does not even qualify as a mild surprise yet danielson is epic? If Cena had said surprise then I would have had no issue with it. But he did not. He talked mostly about himself and essentially nothing out of the ordinary happened for him.

 

[SuperSav10]

I'm still sure that the WWE will remain highly successful with Cena as a Heel. We will all love him instantly when he turns Heel, and it's a fact.

The only reason the majority of people hate Cena is for the pure fact that during his time as Champion in 05/06, he was constantly beating people better in the Ring than him who were long overdue a Title run, the likes of Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho and Kurt Angle. He was constantly shoved down our throats, overcomming the odds week in and week out on Raw, and we got sick of it. But, the last year or so, only a small portion of Cena Haters remain, as most sensible and logical fans have grown to realise he is actually good for the business and the company.

But, it's not going to be long again before that small lust for Cena goes away, and fans once again get on his back as this time they are just willing for him to turn Heel. When he does turn Heel, we will love it, and be all over it. But, they need to make sure it is done right, otherwise they will drag it out and out and eventually we will know exactly where and when it is comming, and the shock factor will just not be there.

The only other problem, is that with a Heel Cena, we can not have a Heel Triple H. One or the other, for now.

 

[hatehabsforever]

So where are all the haters? If Dixie Carter made this tweet this thread would be 5+ pages of hatemongering. Cena does it to sell the PPV and not one person has called him out on it yet? There is nothing epic about the same finish happening that happens in just about every main event Cena has ever been in.

God, what an absolutely silly post. John Cena tweeted that there would be something of significance (paraphrasing) happen at the PPV last night which would be pretty special, and we got the expected return of the Undertaker, but the unexpected (to some ) return of Daniel Bryan. He also thanked the fans for their support, spoke of being nervous, said this would be a big night in WWE history, which in kayfabe terms it was.

Dixie, on the other hand, tends to promise surprises or major developments and not only does she not follow through on them, but she doesn't even try to do so and in my opinion deliberately misleads the ever naive TNA faithful like yourself, duping them into purchasing a PPV they otherwise may not. She tends to hype things for days and then backtrack at the last moment when she cannot (and doesn't even plan to try to) deliver.

One time she spoke of a development which was so significant she couldn't sleep at night, days ahead of the PPV. At the last minute she said the big surprise would actually come later, that only something small was planned now and it turned out to be Tommy Dreamer. This was not misleading, it was deceptive on purpose. It's my biggest complaint with TNA at the moment.

 

[The Doctor]

I am not getting in a flame war with you. I do find it ironic that you claim I am trolling you though.

On the subject at hand, I do not see how Danielson returning justifies Cena's tweet. Cena said nothing about a surprise (am I the only one that can read a tweet without seeing "surprise" even though it is not in the tweet?). He said it would be an epic day in WWE history and that it would be one of the most important days in his career. As far as his career goes that is personal opinion for him but this would seem to be an odd choice, misleading at best in my opinion. What was so important about this for Cena's career? Absolutely nothing.

Cena's Twitter is also kayfabe. In kayfabe, this was one of the most important matches in Cena's career, as it could have meant the end of the WWE. Look at it that way and it makes perfect sense.

As far as a Danielson return being epic I have to disagree. It was not that surprising

WHAT?

WHATTTTTTT???????

SERIOUSLY?

Dude, unless you read the WWE.com article that was accidentally posted, you cannot say you truly saw it coming. The pieces were there, but there was no way they'd bring him back so soon after firing him - or so I and many others thought. It was a shocker of the highest degree and to say "it wasn't that surprising" has just proven what I have always thought about you: You are a fool.

and it is still just Danielson. Taker-HBK at WM25 was epic. When Tara takes her helmet off there is going to be nothing epic about it. Tommy dreamer does not even qualify as a mild surprise yet danielson is epic?

Because it's BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON for God's sake. You know, someone who looked red hot at the beginning of the Nexus angle, someone who was fired unexpectedly, someone who no one truly saw coming. Yes, he's epic, and the crowd last night seemed to agree. He's considered one of the best technical wrestlers in the world by some and it's great to finally see him come back to the biggest wrestling company in the world.

You're just upset Lloyd Boner didn't cross the line.

If Cena had said surprise then I would have had no issue with it. But he did not. He talked mostly about himself and essentially nothing out of the ordinary happened for him.

Then that means your previous comparison to Dixie Carter's tweets are invalid.

 

[Max Headroom]

Big LOL at the people who actually say that BD returning wasn't suprising. I sure as hell wasn't expecting it. Cena was just hyping up the PPV, he knew BD was apparently big in the internet, so he wanted to make sure the people on the internet would watch.

I mean, this IS what everyone wanted, am I right?

 

[shattered dreams]

God, what an absolutely silly post. John Cena tweeted that there would be something of significance (paraphrasing) happen at the PPV last night which would be pretty special, and we got the expected return of the Undertaker, but the unexpected (to some ) return of Daniel Bryan. He also thanked the fans for their support, spoke of being nervous, said this would be a big night in WWE history, which in kayfabe terms it was.

That is one hell of a paraphrase. Now epic is trivialized to just being something of significance? I guess Doc has not been reading your threads. I just feel it is unfair to give Cena a pass because of the so called kayfabe stuff. He gets to not deliver what he said because that is what a storyline says? Shoudn't that be a knock against the story and not seen as a positive?

Dixie, on the other hand, tends to promise surprises or major developments and not only does she not follow through on them, but she doesn't even try to do so and in my opinion deliberately misleads the ever naive TNA faithful like yourself, duping them into purchasing a PPV they otherwise may not. She tends to hype things for days and then backtrack at the last moment when she cannot (and doesn't even plan to try to) deliver.

I would like to know how she doesn't even try? Do you have some inside TNA knowledge that we are missing? Otherwise you hardly know what happens behind the scenes. Also, define "tends" here because you are suggesting she regularly does things that happened once. There were other minor stuff that was debatable but only one big incident. If she has done this so much name three examples.

One time she spoke of a development which was so significant she couldn't sleep at night, days ahead of the PPV. At the last minute she said the big surprise would actually come later, that only something small was planned now and it turned out to be Tommy Dreamer. This was not misleading, it was deceptive on purpose. It's my biggest complaint with TNA at the moment.

Purposely deceptive or a case of things can change? Perspective and inherent bias is everything is such an evaluation

WHAT?

WHATTTTTTT???????

SERIOUSLY?

Dude, unless you read the WWE.com article that was accidentally posted, you cannot say you truly saw it coming. The pieces were there, but there was no way they'd bring him back so soon after firing him - or so I and many others thought. It was a shocker of the highest degree and to say "it wasn't that surprising" has just proven what I have always thought about you: You are a fool.

Personal attacks and pointless hyperbole. You are a better poster than this. Also, telling people to red rep me is amusingly childish.

Unless I "accidentally" saw the spoiler or maybe happened to post in one of the discussions we were having about this possiblity last week, or noticed there was one open spot, nexus and Miz involved and last PPV before he could theoretically sign elsewhere and considered the possibility. To many unlesses. I am sure some people were suprised but that is entirely irrelevant to the discussion of Cena's tweet IMO. Personally, I figured there would be something between Miz and Bryan at this PPV but was not certain. Thus, to me not that suprising but somewhat all things considered. Just like in your opinion it was quite surprising. We all have opinions.

Because it's BRYAN FUCKING DANIELSON for God's sake. You know, someone who looked red hot at the beginning of the Nexus angle, someone who was fired unexpectedly, someone who no one truly saw coming. Yes, he's epic, and the crowd last night seemed to agree. He's considered one of the best technical wrestlers in the world by some and it's great to finally see him come back to the biggest wrestling company in the world.

So red hot that they fired him for 2 1/2 months? So hot that he had one win in his time with the WWE prior to then and zero in one on one contests? I think we have different definitions of epic. Every return of a wrestler that is above average is not epic.

You're just upset Lloyd Boner didn't cross the line.

Hmm. TNA shot? But you do not do that, right? Just "fair" assessments? Anyway, I think WWE is absolutely the best place for Danielson right now if that is somehow relevant.

Then that means your previous comparison to Dixie Carter's tweets are invalid.

No, because the comparison is tweets hyping PPVs up in ways that mislead or do not come to fruition. Within reason I do not think there is anything wrong with doing it but to pretend Cena was not trying to tease a heel turn or promising more from his character than he delivered just because Danielson came back is a convenient sidestep of the issue at hand.

 

[hatehabsforever]

That is one hell of a paraphrase. Now epic is trivialized to just being something of significance? I guess Doc has not been reading your threads. I just feel it is unfair to give Cena a pass because of the so called kayfabe stuff. He gets to not deliver what he said because that is what a storyline says? Shoudn't that be a knock against the story and not seen as a positive?

Semantics, shattered, merely semantics. I didn't have Cena's tweets in front of me and the time of making my post, and I didn't feel a need to look them up, but the point is still the same. It is totally fair to "give Cena a pass" because what he tweeted was totally different than what Dixie always tweets. It's more than just the "kayfabe stuff." He said something "epic" would happen and I think bringing DBD back before the 90 days were up (which a lot of the IWC didn't seem to understand the 90 day clause) and re-introducing him into the main event at Summerslam was "epic." I think the return of the Undertaker, while not epic and somewhat expected, was classic nonetheless. And in kayfabe terms, defending the WWE against the challenge of the Nexus was epic as well. Unlike Dixie, who never delivers, unlike Hogan and Bischoff, who certainly have not delivered since Jan 04, Cena most definitely delivered.

I would like to know how she doesn't even try? Do you have some inside TNA knowledge that we are missing? Otherwise you hardly know what happens behind the scenes. Also, define "tends" here because you are suggesting she regularly does things that happened once. There were other minor stuff that was debatable but only one big incident. If she has done this so much name three examples.

It's obvious she doesn't try. You don't need inside information regarding TNA to see this, you just need two eyes and common sense, something which some of you TNA marks appear to be lacking. I wouldn't be bothered looking up specific examples of Dixie's false promises, but I do know that the last several PPV's there have been surprises promised and not once has there been anything remotely worthy of the hype. What about all of the messages from Jarrett, with the pictures discussing some surprise for the next PPV. Got everyone speculating what they meant. Could be JBL, could be Helms, and lots of other names were thrown about in speculation. And what was it? Jack shit. Again. Playing on the naievity of marks like yourself, and on purpose too.

Dixie wakes up and tweets at 5am before one of the recent PPV's. Too excited to sleep. A big surprise for Sunday night. Will chang ethe wrestling landscape forever. What was it? Nothing. On purpose. Playing you guys again. I'm actually surprised you guys aren't more pissed off about it, playing you guys for fool, which doesn't appear to be too hard.

Purposely deceptive or a case of things can change? Perspective and inherent bias is everything is such an evaluation.

Purposely deceptive without a doubt. Nothing changed, nothing ever changes. There was nothing brewing, there was nothing planned. Reeks of desperation if you ask me, and it will be TNA's undoing if they continue to build up anticipation amongst their loyal supporters, only to disappoint time and time again.

So red hot that they fired him for 2 1/2 months? So hot that he had one win in his time with the WWE prior to then and zero in one on one contests? I think we have different definitions of epic. Every return of a wrestler that is above average is not epic.

You really have difficulty grasping the idea of kayfabe, don't you? The "firing" was likely a work and even if it was real, it was a suspension for political correctness, nothing more. His win/loss record is scripted, you do realize this, right? And the return of DBD is not the return of just some above average guy. He's an internet darling , the pride of the IWC. Bringing him back in the manner they did was epic, far more so than bringing back Stevie Richards or Sabu.

No, because the comparison is tweets hyping PPVs up in ways that mislead or do not come to fruition. Within reason I do not think there is anything wrong with doing it but to pretend Cena was not trying to tease a heel turn or promising more from his character than he delivered just because Danielson came back is a convenient sidestep of the issue at hand.

Of course Cena was teasing a heel turn, it's called playing the IWC and beating them at their own game. There's a big difference between teasing a possible storyline in vague terms, or coming right out and falsely promising something. If this was Dixie Carter tweeting technique, she would have said something along the lines of this: "well, we're going to see an epic heel turn by a former champion tonight, I'm so excited I can hardly sleep. You better run off and buy the PPV now or you will feel like you got hit with a five knuckle shuffle." There's a big difference between saying something like this and saying what Cena said.

 

[Miss Flawless]

It's more than just the "kayfabe stuff." He said something "epic" would happen and I think bringing DBD back before the 90 days were up (which a lot of the IWC didn't seem to understand the 90 day clause) and re-introducing him into the main event at Summerslam was "epic."

I gotta add to this.

I'm not much of an 'whatever-is-on-the-internet-you-should-believe' thing, but apparently, Cena and the WWE creatives, alongside Vince, were thinking about turning Cena heel at the main event during the whole PPV, then finally WWE thought Cena shouldn't turn heel cause he's a huge cash cow. John Cena made the tweet before Summerslam thinking he would turn heel that night...?

Of course, like I said, internet rumors aren't always real, but I just wanted to point that out.

 

[LSU_DT]

Cena's Twitter is also kayfabe.

Where do you get that Cena's twitter is kayfabe?

I had previously assumed it was also, but my girlfriend gets his "tweets" and I got a really good laugh from one he sent out today, that also made it seem to definitely not be kayfabe. This tweet I refer to included the phrase "My spelling is as limited as my repetoire ". I'm not kidding. HahahahaHahaha. Cena actually acknowledges his limited move set. I had no idea.


To stay on topic, I've read some people suggesting that maybe the Cena heel turn was planned out and cancelled at the last minute. That makes no sense when remembering that they just debuted his new t-shirt that will make $millions$... no heel turn for at least one more year IMO.

 

[JM Punk]

I knew the second that Cena walked out on Summerslam with his new T-shirt, that the microscopic chance that Cena could turn heel just went out the window.

Cena turning heel would cost Vince millions....and I'm sure Vince is well aware of that.

 

[TheWorldIsMines]

Or maybe their trying to get kids to buy them so that he can have that one last "paycheck" so to speak before turning heel.

Think about it this new purple and gold shit he wearing is going to sell like crazy because their are million's of kids who are already wearing the orange Obviously and are going to want it.

 

[shattered dreams]

It's obvious she doesn't try. You don't need inside information regarding TNA to see this, you just need two eyes and common sense, something which some of you TNA marks appear to be lacking. I wouldn't be bothered looking up specific examples of Dixie's false promises, but I do know that the last several PPV's there have been surprises promised and not once has there been anything remotely worthy of the hype. What about all of the messages from Jarrett, with the pictures discussing some surprise for the next PPV. Got everyone speculating what they meant. Could be JBL, could be Helms, and lots of other names were thrown about in speculation. And what was it? Jack shit. Again. Playing on the naievity of marks like yourself, and on purpose too.

So you will not even provide examples yet want to be taken seriously just because you know these things happened? You may need to reconsider what you think you know. Especially since you did provide an example (not of dixie because that would be bothersome), an example of you misinterpreting something. Everyone started talking about Jarrett and a surprise. He never tweeted anything except a big announcement was coming and I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with a PPV. Then the IWC gets a hold of it misinterprets it and then tries to blame him for not delivering. A day later he specifically tweeted the difference between an announcement and a surprise, probably because of the dumb misinterpretations.

Dixie wakes up and tweets at 5am before one of the recent PPV's. Too excited to sleep. A big surprise for Sunday night. Will chang ethe wrestling landscape forever. What was it? Nothing. On purpose. Playing you guys again. I'm actually surprised you guys aren't more pissed off about it, playing you guys for fool, which doesn't appear to be too hard.

Purposely deceptive without a doubt. Nothing changed, nothing ever changes. There was nothing brewing, there was nothing planned. Reeks of desperation if you ask me, and it will be TNA's undoing if they continue to build up anticipation amongst their loyal supporters, only to disappoint time and time again.

So you at least bothered to repeat the one we have been talking about the whole time. Better than nothing I guess. This one time is hardly a trend. So Dixie never had talks with Heyman? TNA never planned this whole ECW storyline? Never followed through with HardCore justice? The aftermath of that changed nothing last week on impact? Give me a break.

You really have difficulty grasping the idea of kayfabe, don't you? The "firing" was likely a work and even if it was real, it was a suspension for political correctness, nothing more. His win/loss record is scripted, you do realize this, right? And the return of DBD is not the return of just some above average guy. He's an internet darling , the pride of the IWC. Bringing him back in the manner they did was epic, far more so than bringing back Stevie Richards or Sabu.

Judging by the bold part I have to question which one of us has trouble with kayfabe. Danielson's return was a big deal to IWC peeps for sure but beyond that, who knows? I was just pointing out no one is red hot after being off tv for 2+ months and having little kayfabe success before that.

Of course Cena was teasing a heel turn, it's called playing the IWC and beating them at their own game. There's a big difference between teasing a possible storyline in vague terms, or coming right out and falsely promising something. If this was Dixie Carter tweeting technique, she would have said something along the lines of this: "well, we're going to see an epic heel turn by a former champion tonight, I'm so excited I can hardly sleep. You better run off and buy the PPV now or you will feel like you got hit with a five knuckle shuffle." There's a big difference between saying something like this and saying what Cena said.

So Cena can mislead to increase buys, playing the IWC, and that is a good thing? I disagree that fundamentally there is such a great difference. I actually think Cena did it intentionally while Dixie was just probably too optimistic once. Either side is debatable, that is the point. You say Danielson is epic and I say there were surprises of some sort both mild ones on PPVs and larger ones later, which is essentially what was alluded to. I just do not see what Danielson has to do with Cena's career. I think LSU_DT clearly just showed that twitter is not pure kayfabe, so it might be time for a new excuse for him. One that was so obvious all along that I must be a horrible mark idiot troll for not recognizing the universal truth of immediately.

 

[Dr.Done]

I wonder why there is intense hate for someone who just plays a role with a script given by his boss? I often saw people writing they wanted him to be injured so he could no longer wrestle. I even saw death wishes toward him.

It's one thing not being a fan of a wrestler for various reasons since everyone has different taste and it's all good. I am not a Cena fan, but I respect him for his dedication and I even enjoyed some of his promos.

I am not a Jericho or Shawn Michaels fan either, but I can acknowledge everything they did for the business and they have my respect for that. My less favorite wrestlers are currently The Great Khali, The Miz, Cody Rhodes and Rey Mysterio. However, you won't see me bashing them on any occasion I get.

I have heard many reasons why the Cena haters despise him so much, but none of these points are valid reasons in my opinion. In fact, all I have seen so far are superficial reasons to hate him.