**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[The Champ]

The Punk and Vince segment is a bad example, I saw plenty of diehard Cena fans admitting that that one was awful.

99% of the time, though, his humor is at least decent and usually good, and he knows when to get serious. The promo he had with Punk the week before SummerSlam, along with the one he had with Rock the week before Mania, are two of the best promos I can remember from him. I think he's stepped up his game in that department when he's needed to, especially in big storylines like the current one, Rock, and Nexus.

 

[IrishMcNaughton613]

I don't like Cena it's true. His in ring ability is not as good as superstars like punk, Ziggler, Macintyre, The Miz. The only reason he is anything is because he has size and the solder boy look. I enjoyed watching Cena back when he was doing his silly little raps and was the heel. However, to be honest i was never a big punk fan either. This new story they have him on with the game is maybe the best story line in close to 10 years though. Also i love the charactor he has now. Im not sure weather they are just letting him be himself or if more strings are being pulled they we know, but I love it and it made me a CM Punk fan. Well I have lots to say about things in the WWE and wrestling world so i better not use it all in one post lol.

 

[IrishMcNaughton613]

Ok lets be honest. Cena can entertain which is adleast half the busniess, but his matches are less then watchable. Give Ziggler and Macintyre a high profile match. I garentee resaults.

 

[The Champ]

Did someone just say Miz was better than Cena in the ring? As he himself would say, REALLY? I like Miz, and he's made a ton of improvement but he's still nowhere close to Cena's level. What classic Miz matches are there? The FCA is the only match I can even think of that I would put on a list of matches of the year or anything like that. The other ones involve Cena. I can give you a very long laundry list on Cena's classics.

McIntyre and Dolph are good but don't possess nearly the same storytelling ability that Cena does. Good wrestling in the ring has a lot to do with connecting with the fans and those two don't do it nearly as well as Cena does. Punk was really the only legitimate part of your argument, and the only one of the four you listed who is on Cena's level.

 

[OwenHart100%legend]

Am I missing something here? Is this not a Cena complaints thread? Was this thread not created by the mods who stated that they where fed up of firstly, all the Cena bashing threads swapping the forums, and secondly threads continually being ambushed by Cena haters, much to the annoyance of the Cena supporters, who are quick to complain that Cena is being bashed and its off topic and the Cena haters don't have a clue so on so forth?

In fact because this thread is in place, it is now difficult to create a thread that mentions Cena or portrays him in even the slightest negative light which isn't deleted or closed.

The reason I say this is because there seems to be a lot of posts on here which are being hijacked by Cena fans in defense of their hero, yet they complain when the same thing happens to them! Its meant to be a thread where people air their issues regarding Cena, if it is going to be ambushed be Cena fans whats the point?

If your a cena fan why come to a Cena complaints thread? And then act in the exact same manor that you have continually complained about others users adopting? Maybe its just me but there does seem to be a bit of double standards, and its making the thread pretty pointless.

 

[The Champ]

I'm obviously no moderator, but the way I see it, if the thread is about Cena, then people can talk about Cena in it whatever way they want - negative or positive. The problem is that people hijack threads that have NOTHING to do with Cena just to bash him. This is a thread about Cena, therefore I can come into it to talk about Cena. If there was a "John Cena Appreciation Thread," I wouldn't fault anyone for coming into it and talking about how much they hate him. I would debate their most likely stupid points, but I wouldn't say that they shouldn't be giving them. Last I checked, it was a discussion forum, which means that there should be discussion, not just one sided bashing.

Oh and honestly, your post comes off as a poor attempt to disguise the fact that you can't argue the points presented. If you really dislike Cena that much, I would think you would have some legitimate reasons that you could fire off at me and other Cena fans instead of going on some long rant about how we shouldn't even be posting in this thread because we're Cena fans If you want to debate anything I or anyone else said, go right ahead, I'll be happy to respond. But let's stop with this ridiculous "LET US COMPLAINERS HAVE OUR THREAD!!!" nonsense.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

If everything I said was so ridiculous why is it so many males in our age group agree? The Rock probably had his dislikers (a few) but nothing on this scale. So I ask you why is it Cena is so hated? Why is there, as CM Punk said in his promo Cena considered the "best"? He isn't the best wrestler, if you think that I'll stop typing now. You say he sells and takes bumps well, he just doesn't; I've never watched Cena and genuinely thought he is hurt or may actually lose. (Punk at MITB excluded) I'd rather he was like Flair, Rhodes or Ziggler and oversells everything because at least it makes it exciting to watch.

Also, is that really your motive? To throw 'condescending' to new forum posters to bully them off? So ultimately your opinion is made to look correct. As a moderator or whatever you are that really is bad darts and you should have a look at yourself. Pay attention to your 2 kids instead of being a Nazi on a wrestling forum perhaps? I mean how fucking immature is that? You don't agree with someone because you are clearly delusional, so you personally insult someone you don't know or have ever encountered on this forum before.



Look everywhere...Cena merchandise has polluted WWE for the last 7 years. But why? The reason WWE has given him the role is because it ties in with the new image WWE and Vince want to create. They saw the boom in children and female viewers when Cena became the main face so they made it a PG product. Interesting to see how they deal with Rhodes's bloody beatdown on Friday, but I digress. Do you honestly think Cena is at the top because he's the best? It's not boxing...It is scripted, it is storylined. A competitor is MADE to be the top draw. I echo what It'sClobberingTime said, I also don't understand why him? There was a time where technically sound wrestlers were made the top draw; Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, The Rock and even Austin were all extremely gifted wrestlers and were given the #1 spot for a good reason. Cena has always and still has an extremely limited moveset which he performs sloppily.

Workrate? Obviously he works hard, but so do so many WWE "superstars" (I hate that term) and props to him for that, but does that warrant him being the number one? It's a WRESTLING show, the best WRESTLERS should be number one. If you think he is the best wrestler then fair enough, let's agree to disagree, but he just isn't. But I, as well as thousands of others are puzzled as to why he was chosen over any other. Cena does nothing "wrong" but he is in the wrong business, fair enough to him, he's made his money and is probably a nice guy but he's not a wrestler. Chavo was spot on with his recent comments "He could beat me at weightlifting, but at wrestling I could beat him with my eyes closed" I think that is what has been wrong with WWE, too many guys getting pushed because they are big and look the part, Cena is one of them.

Hopefully with the emergence of Christian and Punk on the title scene we are nearing an end of that, and hopefully times are changing. But the belt is losing credibility massively. Every time someone new wins it, it is a formality that Cena will have it back within a few months. When was Cena's last feud that wasn't for the two major titles? I honestly think a good move would be for Cena to take a few months off after losing at WM28 (Not to make another movie for fucks sake he can't act!) Then come back with a new persona that doesn't just aim at children. That MIGHT be something I could get on board with, but as I said in my last post, in the few months off he better learn how to wrestle.

1. It's sad that you still think that it is PG because of Cena. I suppose it wouldn't have to do with someone murdering somebody. No, that couldn't be a reason. Absolutely never.

2. When was the last time Cena had a feud that wasn't for the title? Hmmm, that's a tough one. Let me think. I do remember a feud last year with some rookies that lasted half a year. Some guys named Otunga, Tarver, and Slater along with a motley cast of others attacked Cena week after week. Did that actually happen or was I too focused on the never ending story that is Kane and Taker?

 

[The Champ]

Someone gets it. PG happened because of Benoit, people. They had to tell the parents that this stuff was okay for their kids to be watching, and the sponsors the same so they wouldn't all start pulling out. Hey, guess what? Cena was on top for over three years before they changed it to PG. Oh, and NOTHING has changed since they went PG except things like cursing and diva body exposure being toned down. If you really need that stuff so badly, go watch a violent porno or something.

 

[BASSER911414]

first of all to the guy above. theres a difference between wanting to watch a swimsuit competition, exposes, some dancing and ripping off bra and panties and watching a violent porno.

i dont know about u but there was a time when wwe had everything. wrestling, divas, swear words gore everything. they had no shortage of talent and no shortage of storylines. that was a time when wrestling was cool (which cm punk has stated he wants it to be again) that was a time when people enjoyed the occasional squash match, a time when people booed the heels and cheered the faces, not the other way around or mixed reactions. it was after the attitude era and before the pg era. i liked that era and so did a lot of people. the only reason i dont like the pg era is simply because of the over-the-topness-if-u-utter-a-profanity. like cena was fined for using the word ass. apparently hhh and taker were fined for a chair shot to the head. db fired for choking justin roberts and spitting on cena. although wwe has started to relax it a little i didnt like that time in the wwe. now its starting to get much better. its on its way to becoming cool again. and chair shots to the head. dont tell me u dont enjoy the ooooooohhhhhhhs when u hear the echo of a chair shot to the head. i know the risks and everything but u gotta admit it used to sound cool.


back on topic.

i dont have a lot of problems with cena. the only problem i have is him dropping the title for 3 weeks and gaining it back again. form 05-09 cena had won the title just 4 times. which sounds reasonable. 4 title runs in 4 years. from 09-11 cena has won the title 6 MORE TIMES. 6 TITLE RUNS IN 2 YEARS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i know its not his fault but since we dont know the writers in charge people are going to vent their anger towards cena.

apart from that his promos have become much better. i liked the jabs at del rio about his cars and the cena showing up in adrs car pretty funny IMO.

another thing i dont like about cena and punk actually is when they call the rock dwayne in a lazy drawl which sort of ruins the whole BIG STAR VS BIG STAR thing. it belittles him which i dont think is good for the feud.

other than that. hes an ok wrestler. not the best we all know that and top draws can sometimes lose cleanly as well. like randy orton did. i was happy about that. it made mark henry look like a credible threat. he does his job good and he brings back the company lots of cash so.... well he is what he is i guess

 

[PunkNation26]

This post is directed towards The_Champ.

Obviously the face is going to get beat down in a match from time to time. It may even be the basic formula. However, Cena is the only guy right now who virtually every match will almost instantly then jump up do his shoulder blocks, followed by spinout bomb, followed by five knuckle shuffle, then he attempts the FU (stupid calling it the Attitude Adjustment). It's the same damn sequence every match. Also, I don't want to see you type in defense that he uses that stupid top rope leg drop.

Cena is just a shitty in ring "wrestler". He's better than Hogan, but that's not saying much. You want to see a real wrestling match, Go back and watch Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar at WM 19. That was wrestling at it's finest.

 

[#hamler]

Obviously the face is going to get beat down in a match from time to time. It may even be the basic formula. However, Cena is the only guy right now who virtually every match will almost instantly then jump up do his shoulder blocks, followed by spinout bomb, followed by five knuckle shuffle, then he attempts the FU

From 2002-2010, Shawn Michaels did the very same. He'd get the living shit beaten out of him only to nip up, an atomic drop, a clothesline, a scoopslam, and a flying elbow off the top rope in that order in every match. Why is it he's still considered the best in-ring performer of all time? The fives moves of doom is a horrible argument in determining whether Cena is a great wrestler or not.

(stupid calling it the Attitude Adjustment).

Does it not seem better then calling the move the FU?

It's the same damn sequence every match. Also, I don't want to see you type in defense that he uses that stupid top rope leg drop.

Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, Hulk Hogan all use the same technique.

Cena is just a shitty in ring "wrestler".

I've yet to see or read any real proof of this.

He's better than Hogan, but that's not saying much.

He's not better than Hogan. I hate Hogan just a much as the next guy but Hogan took wrestling and flipped it on its head. You have lost all credibility if you say Hogan is a shitty wrestler.

You want to see a real wrestling match, Go back and watch Kurt Angle vs. Brock Lesnar at WM 19. That was wrestling at its finest.

Lol, because they performed more moves? Yes, the match was amazing. But go watch any Ric Flair vs. Ricky Steamboat match. There is maybe a total of 10 moves used throughout their matches. It is not about the moves, it's about the storytelling.

 

[Headman]

Am I missing something here? Is this not a Cena complaints thread? Was this thread not created by the mods who stated that they where fed up of firstly, all the Cena bashing threads swapping the forums, and secondly threads continually being ambushed by Cena haters, much to the annoyance of the Cena supporters, who are quick to complain that Cena is being bashed and its off topic and the Cena haters don't have a clue so on so forth?

In fact because this thread is in place, it is now difficult to create a thread that mentions Cena or portrays him in even the slightest negative light which isn't deleted or closed.

The reason I say this is because there seems to be a lot of posts on here which are being hijacked by Cena fans in defense of their hero, yet they complain when the same thing happens to them! Its meant to be a thread where people air their issues regarding Cena, if it is going to be ambushed be Cena fans whats the point?

If your a cena fan why come to a Cena complaints thread? And then act in the exact same manor that you have continually complained about others users adopting? Maybe its just me but there does seem to be a bit of double standards, and its making the thread pretty pointless.

I think the idea was more to contain the debate in one thread instead of every single thread on this forum. I believe if the point was to make a thread that was only for Cena bashing with no opposition it would have been called "The Cena Haters circle jerk". And really, do you guys even care what eachother thinks? I mean the first guy who ever insulted Cena pretty much said it all, but the average Cena basher isn't happy unless he repeats whats been said a million times himself.

 

[#hamler]

That is a matter of opinion; I for one prefer seeing moves. I like the sport and I admire the skill taken to pull off a northern lights suplex or a falcon arrow for example. The storytelling comes as a bonus to me. That is why I don't enjoy Khali vs Cenas or Andre the Giant vs Hogans because they are just the opposite of what the business is "World WRESTLING federation". I occasionally enjoy high spots; Shane falling off the titron or Mankind falling off the cell. But that's merely becasue of the wow factor. When Flair and Steamboat had their matches I never got that, I got a poor match that's aim was clear. To tell a story, not to portray wrestling.

That's like saying you don't care about good directing or writing, you just want to see good movies when good directing/writing clearly leads to good movies. In ring storytelling is the whole point in wrestling. Why do you think the WWE does not push spot monkeys to the top? Why aren't John Morrison and Evan Bourne multi time WWE Champions right now? If your matches don't make sense and show no in ring storytelling then it just makes professional wrestling look worse. The whole point of a wrestling match is to tell a story in the ring. Just as I pointed out earlier, the whole point of a movie or television show is to tell a story too.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

That's like saying you don't care about good directing or writing, you just want to see good movies when good directing/writing clearly leads to good movies. In ring storytelling is the whole point in wrestling. Why do you think the WWE does not push spot monkeys to the top? Why aren't John Morrison and Evan Bourne multi time WWE Champions right now? If your matches don't make sense and show no in ring storytelling then it just makes professional wrestling look worse. The whole point of a wrestling match is to tell a story in the ring. Just as I pointed out earlier, the whole point of a movie or television show is to tell a story too.

You are right.... to a certain extent.

With movies it has never been all about the action, there are diffrent genres that appeal to diffrent people and some dont include any action at all. Action is not necessary for a movie to be good but can add to the enloyment.

However wrestling is built around in ring action wether it makes sense or not. We watch to see guys beat the shit out of eachother and the storylines come as a bonus to keep us interested. Storytelling is important but it has never been the key to a good wrestling match. stories are told through backstage segments, intervieews or promos. Wrestling is about the entertainment of match, which includes doing a variety of moves as well as doing a bit of storytelling.

I hate when someone uses the term "spot monkey" becuase they areall wreslters wether or not they filp. John cena is not a bad wresler at all but he is overrated by casual fans and underrated ny internet fans. he gets too much attention.

 

[#hamler]

Storytelling is important but it has never been the key to a good wrestling match. stories are told through backstage segments, intervieews or promos. Wrestling is about the entertainment of match, which includes doing a variety of moves as well as doing a bit of storytelling.

Variety of moves? No, it certainly is not. Why is it, alot of posters here consider Shawn Michaels to be the best in ring performer of all time? It's not because of his wonderful feuds, it's not because of backstage segments, it's not because of interviews and promos, it's because of his ability to perform and tell a phenomenal story while wrestling a match. Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat and Ric Flair did very few moves in the ring yet, they are considered great athletes and performers because of how they wrestled a match. If I wanted to see a bunch of flips and non selling, I would watch gymnastics.

The whole point is the five moves of doom argument is not true whatsoever and completely irrelevant when determining how great of a wrestler John Cena is.

I hate when someone uses the term "spot monkey" because they areall wreslters wether or not they filp.

What? Of course they're wrestlers. That doesn't mean they are good. Why do you think the WWE continues to push John Cena and Randy Orton rather than John Morrison and Evan Bourne? Why do you think the WWE is more popular then Dragon Gate USA and other flip floppy promotions?

John cena is not a bad wresler at all but he is overrated by casual fans and underrated ny internet fans. he gets too much attention.

Casual fans matter, we do not.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Variety of moves? No, it certainly is not. Why is it, alot of posters here consider Shawn Michaels to be the best in ring performer of all time? It's not because of his wonderful feuds, it's not because of backstage segments, it's not because of interviews and promos, it's because of his ability to perform and tell a phenomenal story while wrestling a match. Shawn Michaels, Ricky Steamboat and Ric Flair did very few moves in the ring yet, they are considered great athletes and performers because of how they wrestled a match. If I wanted to see a bunch of flips and non selling, I would watch gymnastics.

The whole point is the five moves of doom argument is not true whatsoever and completely irrelevant when determining how great of a wrestler John Cena is.

What? Of course they're wrestlers. That doesn't mean they are good. Why do you think the WWE continues to push John Cena and Randy Orton rather than John Morrison and Evan Bourne? Why do you think the WWE is more popular then Dragon Gate USA and other flip floppy promotions?

Casual fans matter, we do not.

The only thing im saying is that NOT EVERYTHING has to be pure storytelling a mix of cool looking moves make a great match. spot flippy wrestlers .are also good it just depends on what you like. The reason WWE is more popular is because of their name value and how long they have had long standing fan base.

If shawn micheals was such a great storyteller and you say that everything has to make sense then explain that how in almost every wrestlemania match he has had in the past couple of years then why does he do his moonsault through ther announce table? does that make any sense to the match or invlove anything from the storyline? The only storytelling I recall him using constantly kicking out right before 3.

"WE DONT MATTER"? talk about yet another example of low self esteem (sadly I have seen this before when arguing about 10%ers)

 

[#hamler]

The only thing im saying is that NOT EVERYTHING has to be pure storytelling a mix of cool looking moves make a great match. spot flippy wrestlers .are also good it just depends on what you like. The reason WWE is more popular is because of their name value and how long they have had long standing fan base.

Yes it does, every wrestling match needs storytelling no matter how many flips and dives you do. I want to hear your argument on why the WWE does not push Evan Bourne and John Morrison to the moon like Cena or Orton.

If shawn micheals was such a great storyteller and you say that everything has to make sense then explain that how in almost every wrestlemania match he has had in the past couple of years then why does he do his moonsault through ther announce table?

He's not doing ridiculous spots that are uncalled for either. The Moonsault doesn't make Shawn Michaels a better wrestler, the storytelling does. I think you're missing my point; the arguements that say the five moves of doom make a wrestler weaker is horse shit.

does that make any sense to the match or invlove anything from the storyline? The only storytelling I recall him using constantly kicking out right before 3.

WHAT???? Go find out what storytelling means and come back.

"WE DONT MATTER"? talk about yet another example of low self esteem (sadly I have seen this before when arguing about 10%ers)

Low self-esteem? lol.

How many times has the WWE listened to the IWC? If they listened to the IWC so much, Cena would be a jobber. It's all about the casual fans and casual fans like Cena.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Yes it does, every wrestling match needs storytelling no matter how many flips and dives you do. I want to hear your argument on why the WWE does not push Evan Bourne and John Morrison to the moon like Cena or Orton.
He's not doing ridiculous spots that are uncalled for either. The Moonsault doesn't make Shawn Michaels a better wrestler, the storytelling does. I think you're missing my point; the arguements that say the five moves of doom make a wrestler weaker is horse shit.

WHAT???? Go find out what storytelling means and come back.

Low self-esteem? lol.

How many times has the WWE listened to the IWC? If they listened to the IWC so much, Cena would be a jobber. It's all about the casual fans and casual fans like Cena.

John cena isnt a bad wrestler in fact I am a fan of his. You as well as others overrate storytelling to the point of no return. Yes it is important in a match but not to the point where if a match has slightly more action than storytelling guys go apeshit all over it.

Yes i do know the meaning of storytelling which is the following: 1. using facial expressions, 2. playing to the crowd, and 3. making men hunchbacks due to being mesmerized at the intensity of the intruige of a match.

WWE has never listened to the IWC and likely never but insulting yourself by saying you do not matter is deep man. You have given me the impression that you require self confidence.

Dont worry hamler we can find help for you and regain IWC pride!

 

[#hamler]

John cena isnt a bad wrestler in fact I am a fan of his. You as well as others overrate storytelling to the point of no return. Yes it is important in a match but not to the point where if a match has slightly more action than storytelling guys go apeshit all over it.

Who are you guys? Are you aware I'm not two but one person? If you can find a post where I say this, I’ll admit that you are right. However, I have never went apeshit if a match has more action then storytelling. However, when I watch something like Dragon Gate USA, I see very little storytelling in their matches. Very little as in not enough. There's nothing wrong with what wrestlers like the X-Division do in a match. However, without storytelling all you have is a bunch of guys doing nothing but flips. I don't think you realize how important storytelling is in a match.

Yes i do know the meaning of storytelling which is the following: 1. using facial expressions,

Selling.

2. playing to the crowd,

Yes.

and 3. making men hunchbacks due to being mesmerized at the intensity of the intruige of a match.

Um ok.

WWE has never listened to the IWC and likely never but insulting yourself by saying you do not matter is deep man. You have given me the impression that you require self confidence.

Are you serious? My opinion doesn't matter. I'm not some close minded mark who believes my opinion will make a difference.

Dont worry hamler we can find help for you and regain IWC pride!

Dude, you mentioned very little about John Cena. I keep posting about how the Five Moves of Doom is irrelevant in determining how great a wrestler is. Post about that, stick to the topic.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

Who are you guys? Are you aware I'm not two but one person? If you can find a post where I say this, I’ll admit that you are right. However, I have never went apeshit if a match has more action then storytelling. However, when I watch something like Dragon Gate USA, I see very little storytelling in their matches. Very little as in not enough. There's nothing wrong with what wrestlers like the X-Division do in a match. However, without storytelling all you have is a bunch of guys doing nothing but flips. I don't think you realize how important storytelling is in a match.

Selling.

Yes.

Um ok.

Are you serious? My opinion doesn't matter. I'm not some close minded mark who believes my opinion will make a difference.

Dude, you mentioned very little about John Cena. I keep posting about how the Five Moves of Doom is irrelevant in determining how great a wrestler is. Post about that, stick to the topic.

OK then john cena it is (and i didnt mean that you are two people)

john cena uses the 5 moves of doom to tell the crowd that the climax of a match is coming. He is hated on by the IWC for doing this. HE uses storytelling to get over. my opinoin? he is good.
im exhausted so you can handle all the Cena haters on your own hamler.

you can still get help though!

 

[PunkNation26]

Cena's crappy offensive arsenal and lack of in ring wrestling ability are the biggest reasons he started getting booed in the first place. All the kiddy crap came in the last couple years or so. Besides, The company is called World "Wrestling" Entertainment. It's not called World "Storytelling" Entertainment.

What Hogan did was NOT wrestling. It was called becoming an American icon and celebrity. Hogan never did what I would call "wrestling". He basically was a traveling Play House actor. Hogan matches were ALWAYS the same. He would get his ass kicked by guys who could actually wrestle ( although some of his opponents were just as shitty wrestlers as he was) then he would Hulk Up and do his Leg Drop. Then that was that.

For the love of God, watch a Goddamn Kurt Angle match. Watch a Brock Lesnar match. Hell Rock was an entertainer, but he could actually wrestle also. Connecting with the crowd is all fine and dandy, but it doesn't take much to connect with naive jail bait and kids. Connect with people who actually have jobs and disposable income. People who don't fall for bullshit and marketing campaigns designed by Vince McMahon, who himself sits in on meetings and laughs at how dumb Cena fans are for buying his stupid merchandise.

You see, I keep saying "watch a Goddamn Kurt Angle match" for a reason. The reason is that he is one of the biggest names in the business who just happens to be the best wrestler in the history of the business ( sorry CM Punk). My point is that he was got over in WWE without being a guy with no in ring ability who relied on pandering to kids. Oh and just for fun, I'd like to mention that Kurt Angle made The Hulkster tap like a drunk man.

 

[The Champ]

Rock did the same fucking thing that Cena does, don't even start with that shit. Name me one way Rock is a better wrestler than Cena, please. I'm not even bashing on Rock, the only real problem I ever had with him was his ridiculous overselling of the Stunner. But people are going to call Cena a bad wrestler and then go ahead and name Rock as one of the greats?

Also, Kurt Angle, while I like him is also overrated as fuck and isn't that good of a storyteller or ring psychologist. I mean fuck, the dude sets up his finisher with his finisher. The dude fucking locks in the Ankle Lock like ten times in a match before he even thinks about grapevining it, which is usually what wins it for him. I mean, really? And he doesn't even fucking work on the ankle at all during the match aside from that. At least Cena's whole arsenal, while maybe a little small, is mostly targeting the parts of the body that he's actually planning to finish off.

And the notion that Angle is the best wrestler in the history of the business is absolutely fucking laughable for the reasons I just mentioned. I could name so many people who are about a million times better.

Yes, the company is called World Wrestling Entertainment. Well, actually, no it's not, it's called WWE, but it used to stand for that. But you NEED storytelling to have a classic wrestling match. Period. I mean at the very least, even in matches that feature a bunch of spot monkeys you have to give off the vibe that these guys will do anything it takes to win. That's a story. Good wrestlers tell stories, it doesn't matter what type of wrestler you are.

 

[PunkNation26]

Unless you are completely ******ed, why do you need to be led through a match with so called "storytelling". Let the reason the match is happening tell you the story. When I was 14 watching WM17 Rock vs Austin, I wasn't thinking to myself, "Man, I hope they tell me a story." I was thinking at the time "I hope Austin kicks Rock's ass."

I didn't really grow to enjoy great pure wrestling matches until I say Brock Lesnar come onto the scene and have loved them ever since. Now that's not to say I was a Hogan fan as a kid as I wasn't. I couldn't stand wrestling until I was 12 and saw Austin for the first time.

With your Kurt Angle logic, it makes him an idiot since he doesn't just haul off and punch the guy in the nose and lock him in a guillotine choke mma style. Same can be said for Big Show. Why would he wait 10 minutes before he punched the guy in the face. Just do it when the bell rings and get it over with. Your argument there just doesn't make sense.

Oh and Rock never did the whole "get his ass kicked and get back up" crap. He always chain wrestled. All I can remember him doing that could be considered "moves of doom" was the spinebuster People's Elbow combo, and even that is only two moves, and they were a finisher sequence. He didn't rely on a crappy Cena and Hogan hulk up routine.

 

[The Champ]

And why did you want Austin to kick Rock's ass? Because you were invested in their characters. Because you loved the Austin character and thought he was superior to the Rock character. And guess what? A story was told in that match too. The story of the two best in the business duking it out to see who really was the number one - coupled with the story of Austin doubting that he could beat The Rock and enlisting McMahon's help due to that self doubt. You're not supposed to be consciously thinking "Oh, I hope they tell a good story." You're supposed to be invested IN that story, which clearly you were at age 14.

You got my Kurt Angle argument totally wrong. I wasn't saying that he should lock in the Ankle Lock to start the match, I was saying that he build to it with moves that target the ankle, BESIDES the Ankle Lock. You don't build to your finisher with your finisher.

How about the People's Punch-Samoan Drop-Rock Bottom-Spinebuster-People's Elbow combo for Rocky? If my counting is correct, that's exactly five moves, or six if you throw in the Sharpshooter every now and then. It's literally the exact same thing.

 

[PunkNation26]

I'm not talking about "how many" moves a guy has, I'm talking about ridiculous move sequences. I know you know what I'm talking about. Cena's shoulder block, spinout bomb sequence and Hogan's Hulk Up are the biggest examples.

Oh and Rock did DDT's too. You also forgot the chair shots and spitting water in people's faces and insulting them on the mic while simultaneously kicking their ass. That means Rock > Cena.
I also didn't like HBK's atomic drop scoop slam elbow drop move sequence, but atleast it realisticly built towards a victory or moved the match along. Cena's move sequence is just annoying and insulting. The 5 knuckle shuffle is basically a way kissing the guy on the cheek just to piss him off.

I may be wrong because I haven't watched that many HBK matches, but I don't think he adopted the atomic drop, scoop slam elbow drop sequence until later in his career. Also, I don't think he relied on it in his WM matches with Undertaker. I think he mainly used them for tv matches.