**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

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That final point is utterly ridiculous.
Firstly, who on earth is talking about throwing yourself around the ring? The fact you talk about Kofi and Morrison as though we're referring to those as prime wrestling characters sums up how little you understand the point, those two are just as poor as Cena when it comes to actual wrestling ability.
And the two matches you mention show just how poor Cena is, not good. He gets abused for horrific wrestling performance in both.

......

What? Cena Vs punk got the first WWE 5* wrestling observer award since 1997

10/5/97 Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker (Hell in a Cell Match, In Your
House: Bad Blood) WWF Championship
7/17/11 John Cena vs. CM Punk (Money in the Bank) WWE Championship

http://starratingslist.blogspot.com/2009/09/wrestling-observer-5-star-ratings-list.html

I am not going to argue with someone as so completely and utterly indisputably and provably wrong.

edit: please go back and watch those matches with an open mind, no really, I hate to see people miss out on good things because they are not considered "cool" to the youth of the day.
 
I'm not denying it was a stunning match, but I struggle to see how your point is relevant. How does the fact it was an enjoyable match prove Cena can wrestle? It was highly enjoyable due to the hostile crowd, CM Punk's wrestling, the screwjob attempt, and the final result with Punk leaving with the title.
 
Firstly I highlighted the ECW match because Cena responded to the "you can't wrestle" chant with an unbelievably good wrestling chain.

Secondly, It takes two to tango. You simply cannot have anything above a 3* match with someone who can't sell your moves, and when I say "sell" I'm including the fact that even if you do things like a simple hip toss, it's the other guy who does a fair whack of the work by somersaulting and making you look good. Think of it as a extreme dance.

What do you think of as good wrestling? You don't like storytelling, high flying or the big chaps? Honestly, what's left? Don't say CM punk, I think he's awesome and even as a punk mark I have to admit he has a limited move set as well, his genius lies in the storytelling.
 
Dude, you seriously need to check yourself here. Totally unnecessary, rude, fucked up and disrespectful. Comments like this won't get you far on this forum. Its fine to hate Cena for all the wrong reasons but you've made it impossible for anyone to treat you with any respect due to that comment.


You're in no place to make comments about being unnecessary, rude and disrespectful. Every post you make is exactly that. You have some sort of major ego because you've got over 1,000 posts on a wrestling forum and for that you freely bash other people's opinions.

You bang on about Cena epic moments and listed 5 or 6 questionable ones in his past 9 years...The Rock had them every fucking week. That is why he was the number 1 in the company, Stone cold had epic moments...EVERY WEEK. Cena has them once every two years. Hardcore Holly, Big Bossman had epic moments every few years. That doesn't warrant them number one status does it? Wrestling ability wise I have no fucking clue how Cena is where he is. He should be doing world strongest man or body building or something, because yeah...He FU'd the Great Khali, Bigshow and Edge. Brilliant. But he can't wrestle for shit. Last night he did 3 of his 5 moves of doom, and two "Throws" as Michael Cole called them. Whereas if you look at Del Rio who has a legitimate MMA and wrestling background he pulls off wonderful technical wrestling every match.

If Cena ever has a great match, it's because of the other competitor, MITB Punk sold Cenas moves well and made him look somewhat okay. HBK feud around WM23, HBK sold Cenas moves well...But then you look at the feuds with The Miz, Batista, Great Khali...They were fucking dreadful. They had to make the Khali match a falls count anywhere because they knew they'd run out of moves in 5 minutes in the ring. FU off the crane, impressive. But Batista did spots like that. Still a garbage wrestler.

On the mic? I didn't watch during his rapping stage so can't comment on that, but at the moment he is just so stale. His voice is just monotonous and he says the same thing every week. His character is in the top 10 worst in the past 10 years. Worse than hornswoggle, Cryme tyme, worse than Val Venis. It is terrible and epitomizes the PG era as he makes 7 years olds piss themselves with excitement over this overly patriotic American, probably religious, can't wrestle for shit, cunt box.

I think I've vented enough anger on him for now. If he took a 4-5 month break after WM28 and returned with a new persona that isn't aimed at 7 year olds I may be all for it, but in those 4-5 months he needs to go to William Regal or Al Snow and learn how to fucking wrestle.
 
Monday Night RAW: CM Punk is given free reign on the mic and cuts a history making promo on stage. The beginning of a great storyline and new direction for the WWE.
Superstars are told that they may make little tweaks to there already existing persona's as approved by management: DOLPH ZIGGLER races to the saloon and dies his hair back to blonde "WIN": R-Truth spray paints a straight jacket and creates new phrases and a kick ass Truth-2.0 is born "WIN":DiIBIASE finally gets a face turn "WIN": DANIEL BRYAN changes his entrance music "WIN': MARK HENRY systematically destroys the roster and support staff subsequently becomes World Champion "WIN".............JOHN CENA recaptures WWE Championship twice in this time and doesn't so much as change his shirt colour, phrases, move set, theme music........."LOSING"




"Just my Humble observation"
 
So the defense here is, because we are not Ric Flair, we shouldn't be able to spot when Cena throws an awkward dropkick, or an awkward "belly to belly slam" (I can wrap that in another set of quotes if you like. I'm sure that was the closest description King could find for w/e the frick Cena did to Del Rio at NoC).


I'm not saying that at all. Everyone botches. What I'm saying is I'll take the words of several of the all time greats and my own two eyes over the word or opinions of people who sit at home and rewind their DVR every time they think they saw a Cena botch just to rush to the message boards and go "Seeeee!".

Bang on. What a ridiculous comment to make that simply because we aren't in the business we can't make an assessment on wrestling ability.

To push your point further RedStar, I actually believe I heard Jerry refer to Cena 'Throwing' Del Rio on more than one occasion. Throwing eh? What a superb technical wrestling manoeuvre....

Interesting tid bit... the two main categories of wrestling moves are called "holds" and "throws". Not taking away from your golden moment where you once and for all proved Cena can't wrestle because a move with a new opponent didn't go off without a hitch, but thought you might like that bit of info.
 
You're in no place to make comments about being unnecessary, rude and disrespectful. Every post you make is exactly that. You have some sort of major ego because you've got over 1,000 posts on a wrestling forum and for that you freely bash other people's opinions.

Him having over a thousand posts has nothing to do with his ego, him being so clearly right in just about everything he says probably does though.

You bang on about Cena epic moments and listed 5 or 6 questionable ones in his past 9 years...The Rock had them every fucking week. That is why he was the number 1 in the company, Stone cold had epic moments...EVERY WEEK. Cena has them once every two years.

You know, this is something I won't argue about too much. I think your exaggerating a bit( Rock and Austin didn't have epic moments every week and Cena has em' more than every 2 years, but Austin and Rock have certainly had more than Cena and had them more frequently) but I honestly kind of get where your going here.

Hardcore Holly, Big Bossman had epic moments every few years. That doesn't warrant them number one status does it?

Well neither of them have ever had one epic moment let alone several, but even if they had, when has either one of them sold out arenas all over the world? When have either of them ever put on fantastic 4-star matches? None come to mind.

Wrestling ability wise I have no fucking clue how Cena is where he is.

Probably because he is the single best wrestler in the world? Just a hunch.

He should be doing world strongest man or body building or something, because yeah...He FU'd the Great Khali, Bigshow and Edge. Brilliant. But he can't wrestle for shit. Last night he did 3 of his 5 moves of doom, and two "Throws" as Michael Cole called them. Whereas if you look at Del Rio who has a legitimate MMA and wrestling background he pulls off wonderful technical wrestling every match.


:disappointed:

You're one of those guys, eh? People who, for some odd reason, seem to think that the execution of several moves is what makes someone a good wrestler. I just don't understand that line of thinking. First of all, while Cena may use a limited move set, he certainly does the moves correctly. Second of all, why the fuck does the number of moves or the style of moves matter? Let me use an example. One that our fearless leader has taught me (ass kissing/)

Lets say that CM Punk has performed a hip toss on John Cena. Who has performed the more difficult task in this situation? ... If you chose CM Punk, you, my friend, are an idiot. The only thing Punk had to do was brace himself, extend his arm, and rotate it. Cena on the other hand had to jump, flip, bump safely, and sell.

This is what makes Cena so great. You see, throughout history the big face in a match up spends the majority of the match selling the beatdown and trying to get the audience to care about the match. Cena is one of a select few who excels in this role, along with guys like Hogan, Austin, Sting, and Rock. Don't believe me? Look at the other guys who were built as top faces who tended to be heavily offense based in their matches; Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels. Two people that are often lauded as being all time greats, but also two guys who are associated with being at the top during the WWE's worst financial era. The numbers speak for themselves. If you're not good enough to draw people to see you, you're not one of the best. I for one applaud John Cena for ignoring those who claim that he needs to focus on being more technical or whatever and for continuing to focus on the important things. (selling, bumping, getting a response, etc.)

If Cena ever has a great match, it's because of the other competitor, MITB Punk sold Cenas moves well and made him look somewhat okay.

And that is a giant crock of shit. If anyone came away from that match looking better it was Punk and Cena did that by making him look like a fucking star.

HBK feud around WM23, HBK sold Cenas moves well...

Once again, not much of an argument. Cena wasn't at his best at this time yet and Shawn really helped to walk him through his shortcomings. But wasn't this like 5 years ago?

But then you look at the feuds with The Miz, Batista, Great Khali...They were fucking dreadful. They had to make the Khali match a falls count anywhere because they knew they'd run out of moves in 5 minutes in the ring. FU off the crane, impressive. But Batista did spots like that. Still a garbage wrestler.

Le sigh. Miz and Cena had a shit match at Mania, but since then they had a few good ones. Such as the match on Raw and the Cage Match at Extreme Rules. The match with Khali wasn't great, but it far and away Khali's best match ever. Funny how he has his best match against Cena when he's faced almost everyone else on the roster. Hmm..

And the Batista complaint is just awful. Cena and Batista had fantastic matches.

On the mic? I didn't watch during his rapping stage so can't comment on that, but at the moment he is just so stale. His voice is just monotonous and he says the same thing every week. His character is in the top 10 worst in the past 10 years. Worse than hornswoggle, Cryme tyme, worse than Val Venis. It is terrible and epitomizes the PG era as he makes 7 years olds piss themselves with excitement over this overly patriotic American, probably religious, can't wrestle for shit, cunt box.

I think I've vented enough anger on him for now. If he took a 4-5 month break after WM28 and returned with a new persona that isn't aimed at 7 year olds I may be all for it, but in those 4-5 months he needs to go to William Regal or Al Snow and learn how to fucking wrestle.

I sincerely hope you never reproduce. Seriously, get sterilized.
 
I keep hearing this "Epic moment" thing and it seems so subjective as to what exactly makes up an epic moment. It seems to me some people aren't happy with anything that's happened since the attitude era, others sit there and count how many moves a wrestler does in a match, while others are just mad that their favorite guy isn't in Cena's spot. I'm amazed as to how so much of this site can be summed up into one word "Waaaah".

I'm not denying it was a stunning match, but I struggle to see how your point is relevant. How does the fact it was an enjoyable match prove Cena can wrestle? It was highly enjoyable due to the hostile crowd, CM Punk's wrestling, the screwjob attempt, and the final result with Punk leaving with the title.

Punk wrestled a 5 star match by himself. That's a laugh.
 
I'm not saying that at all. Everyone botches. What I'm saying is I'll take the words of several of the all time greats and my own two eyes over the word or opinions of people who sit at home and rewind their DVR every time they think they saw a Cena botch just to rush to the message boards and go "Seeeee!".
...you'll take the words of who? Some wrestlers who decided to put the top guy over? Again, big deal. And if you were using your own two eyes, you'd recognize the difference between Cena doing X move and someone else doing X move. It's not a "botch". Nobody said anything about botching. It's the way he moves in the ring. What clobberin and I were reffering to is Cena's awkward and hamfisted methods in the ring. Inb4 someone spouts on about nobody being perfect and everyone having flaws, bla bla...that's all fine, but this particular wrestler is not in the same position others are. If Khali were in Cena's shoes, you can bet I'd be angry about it.

Then, we've got guys like Sandy Cervix saying he's the best in the world. Hopefully this is nothing more than an attempt to troll.

As for this "selling and bumping", I don't see anything great about Cena's work on the defensive side, especially considering how he jumps from "ohhh I'm so hurt" to "U GON GET GOT" instantly, and seems to ignore previous injuries/events in the match during his "hulk up". Once again, no wrestler is perfect, but all of this is much clearer when you have this particular guy main eventing everything.

Some of these pro Cena arguments are useless opinions on the quality of specific matches. Not much to be said there; the bottom line is that no matter what match it is, Cena is consistent, therefore everything we talk about as being negative is in every one of those matches. Why not mix up his approach? Randy Orton has signature 5 moves of Doom attacks, but it's not always executed the same. Are you ever 100% sure if someone is going to get rope DDT'd? Or if he'll land the jumping knee to the face?
 
You can bash Cena if you want, but I don't get him being religious making him a douche.
Oh and wrestling moves do matter. Just watch a freaking Kurt Angle match,then watch a Cena match against someone not named Punk, HBK, HHH. Then tell me which match was better. Knowing some of you Cena sympathizers, I probably already have the answer.

With your logic, an untrained backyard wrestler can be the single best wrestler in the world if he makes fat women cream their panties and little boys pee the bed in excitement during a dream about him.
 
With your logic, an untrained backyard wrestler can be the single best wrestler in the world if he makes fat women cream their panties and little boys pee the bed in excitement during a dream about him.

If you can make people care about you, come to the arena to see you, invest in your character emotionally, and want you to win every fight, then jump-in and take the challenge.
This is precisely what this business is all about, and you are saying as if it was the easiest thing in the world !!!
 
People only care about Cena because of how he came to be. Cena was forced down everyone's throats as WWE Champion in 2005. Then the women and kiddies caught wind of his existence and flocked in droves to WWE arenas and haven't left since. The teenage and adult males have hated him since then as well. So you see, Vince pushed a talentless guy, who's basically Lex Luger with a speaking voice.

You see, a car wreck is horrible, but people are going to stop and look at it. Cena draws interest not because of talent or because he's entertaining. Cena only draws 1 demographic, and the teenage and adult males haven't given up their fight against him. Teenage and adult males don't pay to see Cena, they pay to see the things they like and show their dislike of Cena while they're there.

For confirmation of my opinion, see Dwayne Johnson's Youtube videos via facebook.
 
@PunkNation13 Riiiight, there is no way in hell you are 26 years old, next time you want to work round the parental permission thing then go for something more realistic like 19.

Thank you for the out and out sexism. Woman into wrestling does not automatic mean we are watching because omg they so hot. So what if there are more women in the stands now, it's not just because of Cena, it's because it's become more socially acceptable for women to be into it (The no blading rule has a lot to do with that) if you don't like it then that's your problem, the female fans ain't going nowhere.

I'm a woman, a not very hot woman old enough to be your mother granted, but still, I'm a mark, and have been a mark for a long long time, I weathered the "you are only watching because of HBK and Brett" storm and many more like it and quite frankly I've earned the right to tell you to fuck the hell off.
 
I sincerely hope you never reproduce. Seriously, get sterilized.



You sir are an absolute prize tosser.

Let me summarize the human you are from that post alone:

Oh Hi, I'm Sandy Cervix. I spend every day of my life on a forum discussing issues that are actually currently aimed at children. However, because I post on here soooooo much and use a slightly intellectual dialogue I am of course reputable, and not just a pathetic burden on society, who has forgotten what sexual intercourse is to the point that my penis has actually filed for annulment from my balls. In person I have all the social skills of a cucumber, so what I'll do is insult people on a forum behind the safety of my keyboard and boost a self-esteem. Maybe now girls will look at me!

Serial posting ***** like you are the reason I steered clear of registering on here for so long. The idea of a place like this is to trigger interesting debates and conversation. This was being achieved while RedStar, myself, Penguin and arrive_raisehell_leave were posting. Then you turn up and just because someone's opinion differs to yours you steer clear of any intellectual and stimulating debate, and just turn to childish insulting. Well let's see how things go down when the tables are turned, I can all but guarantee MY post will be removed.

You are a pathetic waste of oxygen, who sits in his room in his Mother's house trying to desperately convince himself he has a purpose on this Earth by insulting others on a wrestling forum. If you get laid in the next 5 years it will be nothing short of a miracle. Get away from your fucking computer screen and develop some social skills, expand your friend base to those that aren't just on facebook, and get a fucking life.




Anyway, back on to the actual topic...... I feel that although PunkNation put expressed the point rather poorly, I think I can maybe see where he is coming from. A better way of putting it would be why was Cena pushed to this demographic? The point you made about women and children loving him PunkNation is initially incorrect. Thee WWE noticed a change in the gender demographic watching, and tried to find ways to sustain this. It wasn't Cena that triggered this change, it was a number of things (blading as Penguin touched on for one). In an attempt to keep this new audience, the WWE changed a few things, the PG contract being one of them. And, another highly obvious one, was the image change the John Cena. My argument is this: Why Cena? Why out of all the wrestlers around was it Cena? Although from a personal perspective I miss the attitude Era and dislike the PG programming I can see why it was necessary. But why was it that Cena was giving the lead role in the transaction. Why did a man with less wrestling ability than many others get the nod?
 
I have no problem with women liking wrestling and attending shows. I just hate the women that fall into the "fans of boybands" category. They make me sick. Wrestling is supposed to be a male dominated entertainment brand. An adult male soap opera if you will.

I also don't like the whole PG , Full Houseish way they cater Cena to the kids. As R Truth calls them, I don't like the Little Jimmy. I want to be entertained and don't want talented superstars held back by forcing them to be heels who can't be cool just because Vince has no balls and wants to kiss sponsor ass.

By the way Penguin, I don't want to get in trouble for flaming, but you can kiss my ass. You came at me with a typical female mark insult. Simply attacking me with profanity. By the way I turn 25 October 16th. I also formed my opinions without the aid of the internet as I haven't had internet in over a year. Only got it back a week ago.

Oh, there's a difference between HBK and Brett and John Cena. HBK and Brett are amazing wrestlers while Cena is complete shit as a wrestler. He's also a complete WWE marketing phony.
 
I have but one complaint about John Cena.

HE CANNOT GO HEEL!!!!!

Let's face it, his fanbase is too big!! WWE writers know that there is no logical reason for him to go heel when all he's done when he's lost is just beat the crap out of another heel. So when he loses the title again (he will- soon I hope) he's either going for that rematch or just move on. Why should he go heel? He's been a good sport about it for years1 Why change now?

AND THE PROBLEM IS MOST PEOPLE WANT HIM HEEL.

See what I mean?
 
A heel turn is fucking necessary for his character to E-V-O-L-V-E.

Everyone in WWE history needs/has been a Heel at one point , minus the odd few like Rey Mysterio etc.
Cena needs it to refresh his character, he needs it more than anyone. Can't believe some even think he does not need a heel turn.

Last time he's a heel was 2003.
He's just fucking stale, turning heel might get him over with the male crowd again (if it's successful that is)
 
You sir are an absolute prize tosser.

I've never heard such an insult. So uh, ok.

Let me summarize the human you are from that post alone:

A pretty bold move to try and summarize my entire being from one post. One of my more tame posts at that.

Oh Hi, I'm Sandy Cervix. I spend every day of my life on a forum discussing issues that are actually currently aimed at children.

The name's Nate, actually. Yeah I do spend everyday on here, only because I have a responsibility to moderate the WWE Section, but I rarely post more than once or twice a day.

However, because I post on here soooooo much and use a slightly intellectual dialogue I am of course reputable, and not just a pathetic burden on society, who has forgotten what sexual intercourse is to the point that my penis has actually filed for annulment from my balls. In person I have all the social skills of a cucumber, so what I'll do is insult people on a forum behind the safety of my keyboard and boost a self-esteem. Maybe now girls will look at me!

Dude, MAD props. I will totally be sending a green rep for you for this one. Not that it's true or anything, I'm getting married next month, I have 2 kids, I'm going to school, etc. I have an awesome life, to be honest. I realize you have no reason to believe any of this and that's coool. Just thought I'd fill you in a bit.

But you have some creative juices, whether your assessments of wrestling is bullshit or not. I sincerely hope you stick around.

Serial posting ***** like you are the reason I steered clear of registering on here for so long. The idea of a place like this is to trigger interesting debates and conversation. This was being achieved while RedStar, myself, Penguin and arrive_raisehell_leave were posting. Then you turn up and just because someone's opinion differs to yours you steer clear of any intellectual and stimulating debate, and just turn to childish insulting.

What the fuck are you talking about? I picked apart just about every ridiculous thing he said with only one insult. Sure, I was condescending as hell, but in my experience, talking down to someone who displays a clear lack of knowledge on any subject will humiliate them and force them to either shut the fuck up, or come better prepared next time. Win-Win.

Furthermore, you're quite the fucking hypocrite. I've removed at least 3 posts from this thread alone where all you did was insult someone.

Well let's see how things go down when the tables are turned, I can all but guarantee MY post will be removed.

If it wasn't for your addition to the post at the bottom, yes, I would remove this post. Not because it was an insult to me, but because it was off topic and existed solely for flaming purposes. If you had read the rules, you would know that. But you did indeed stick to the topic, so I'll let it stay.

You are a pathetic waste of oxygen, who sits in his room in his Mother's house trying to desperately convince himself he has a purpose on this Earth by insulting others on a wrestling forum. If you get laid in the next 5 years it will be nothing short of a miracle. Get away from your fucking computer screen and develop some social skills, expand your friend base to those that aren't just on facebook, and get a fucking life.

Once again, totally unfounded but still funny. Not as funny as your first tirade but good nonetheless.




Anyway, back on to the actual topic...... I feel that although PunkNation put expressed the point rather poorly, I think I can maybe see where he is coming from. A better way of putting it would be why was Cena pushed to this demographic? The point you made about women and children loving him PunkNation is initially incorrect. Thee WWE noticed a change in the gender demographic watching, and tried to find ways to sustain this. It wasn't Cena that triggered this change, it was a number of things (blading as Penguin touched on for one). In an attempt to keep this new audience, the WWE changed a few things, the PG contract being one of them. And, another highly obvious one, was the image change the John Cena. My argument is this: Why Cena? Why out of all the wrestlers around was it Cena? Although from a personal perspective I miss the attitude Era and dislike the PG programming I can see why it was necessary. But why was it that Cena was giving the lead role in the transaction. Why did a man with less wrestling ability than many others get the nod?

Where is this notion that the WWE just gave Cena the lead role? Like they said, "John Cena is our guy and we're going to force him onto the crowd until everyone likes him." It's bullshit. He's at the forefront because he's the top draw, end of discussion. How fucking ******ed would it have been for them to keep him from the top because he doesn't do a bunch of high spots or he isn't "technically sound?" Why does something like that even matter? Furthermore, what exactly do you consider "wrestling ability?" Workrate? John Cena is the absolute best, bar none. Selling? Bumping? He is phenomenal. Execution of moves? He does everything right. So tell me, what in the fuck does Cena do wrong?
 
A heel turn is fucking necessary for his character to E-V-O-L-V-E.

Everyone in WWE history needs/has been a Heel at one point , minus the odd few like Rey Mysterio etc.
Cena needs it to refresh his character, he needs it more than anyone. Can't believe some even think he does not need a heel turn.

Last time he's a heel was 2003.
He's just fucking stale, turning heel might get him over with the male crowd again (if it's successful that is)
So let me get this straight.

WWE should turn John Cena heel, because it might get him over with the male audience. So, if this were to take place, he would be cheered by the males and booed by the women and children: the opposite of what is happening now. Therefore, we would still have split reactions for Cena, even as a heel, without all the merchandise sales that come from getting the cheers from the kids.

Is it really that hard to get why this logic is flawed?
 
What bothers me about this topic is this:

I understand that people can be overly exaggerating and whiny about a wrestler that they don't like (Cena) but why is it that the people who are fans of that wrestler feel the need to counter the people complaining by using the same method from the opposite end?

If you believe that you're right and really want to prove your point to someone who is being unfair, biased, or over dramatic, then why not go a more effective route? Why not show that you aren't as one-sided and naive as the naysayers by pointing out both the good and bad aspects of the wrestler you so strongly want to defend?

Instead, all I normally see are direct disagreements to EVERY comment or point a person makes. After 30+ people differ from your opinion and you don't once have anything to say in agreement, it makes it difficult for someone with an indifferent view (such as myself) to take you seriously.

But since this is supposed to be a Cena-bashing thread, I'll point out some negative things about him.

I believe Cena has flaws. I also believe that the strong hatred towards his character has to do with the fact that many of us do not think Cena is a believable character visually or emotionally. In short, we think he's either a bad actor or put together a crappy gimmick. Unlike an actor we'd consider good, he doesn't sell us on anything he does. He seems to just be himself with the addition of having the style of a suburban 12 year old boy. People loved guys like Ulitmate Warrior, Batista, and continue to cheer for Hogan - none of which were considered great technical wrestlers but had good gimmicks that were either so bizarre they were entertaining(HH, UW) or were easy to pull off because they looked the part (Batista).

A lot of the nitpicky talk reminds me of when people ask who's greater between The Rock and Stone Cold. Many say that SCSA was the better wrestler but I always respond to those people with "There isn't one thing that SCSA did in the ring that Rock either didn't do before or was unable to do just as well and vice versa." But when it comes to Cena's character portrayal, if I had to compare him to other wrestlers right now I'd feel the need to say hey, what about a guy like Sheamus? A guy who looks the part, is just as decent in the ring, and has an easy-to-believe gimmick.
 
I have honest to God no clue how Cena can be considered the best "wrestler" in the world. That annoys the shit out of me. Look Cena fans, Kurt Angle is a great wrestler. Chris Jericho is a great wrestler. CM Punk is a great wrestler. HHH is a great wrestler. Bret Hart was a great wrestler. HBK was a great wrestler. Edge was a great wrestler. Undertaker is a great wrestler. I could go on and on.

Here's some examples of guys who aren't great wrestlers, and some would say aren't even good wrestlers. Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, Eziekal Jackson, Khali, Kevin Nash, David Otunga.

I will say this again, and maybe people will get it. Making fat women cream in their panties doesn't make you a great wrestler, period. The problem Cena haters have with his persona is that it's a WWE marketing campaign. It's completely fabricated and fake. He's not an actual person on screen. If someone does happen to find proof otherwise, then that just means he truly is the biggest douche on the planet.
 
I have honest to God no clue how Cena can be considered the best "wrestler" in the world. That annoys the shit out of me. Look Cena fans, Kurt Angle is a great wrestler. Chris Jericho is a great wrestler. CM Punk is a great wrestler. HHH is a great wrestler. Bret Hart was a great wrestler. HBK was a great wrestler. Edge was a great wrestler. Undertaker is a great wrestler. I could go on and on.
Cena is a better wrestler than Angle, Edge, and HHH, and he's on the level of most of the others. There is absolutely nothing to suggest otherwise unless you're using the flawed five move argument, which - guess what - a lot of the guys you just listed also use.

Just because people like Angle do a bunch of reversals and have a bunch of false finishes doesn't make them better than Cena by any wide margin. Cena is an excellent storyteller, excellent at getting the fans emotionally invested in the match, and if you actually watched his PPV matches with an open mind, he's been able to have many different types of matches with many different people. And don't even start with the "he gets carried every time" bullshit, because if that were the case then he wouldn't have a five year track record of memorable matches. Carrying doesn't get you that far.
I will say this again, and maybe people will get it. Making fat women cream in their panties doesn't make you a great wrestler, period. The problem Cena haters have with his persona is that it's a WWE marketing campaign. It's completely fabricated and fake. He's not an actual person on screen. If someone does happen to find proof otherwise, then that just means he truly is the biggest douche on the planet.
What does make you a great wrestler, then? Because I'm willing to believe that you actually have no idea and you just go along with what other people tell you.

Oh, and nobody is a real person on screen. It's scripted, dude. They're all playing characters. And thinking that someone like The Rock (just to use an example, I'm not a Rocky hater) is more "real" on screen on Cena just makes you just as big of a mark, if not bigger, than the people you criticize for going along with Cena's push and liking him.
 
Laying on your ass for 10 minutes, then getting up and fireman's carrying somebody into a pin doesn't make you a great storyteller.

Being a great wrestler is something guys like Stone Cold, Rock, Kurt Angle, HHH, Bret Hart, and Shawn Michaels have done. Having matches with great chain wrestling and having the crowd still care about them. You can tell stories with great wrestling you know.

Besides, what story do you think Cena is trying to tell? Cena: "I have big muscles and I'll lay on my ass while my opponent stomps on me for 10 minutes, then I'll get up and slam this guy for the win, that way the kiddies will worship me and I won't have to kill myself because cool people hate me."

Oh and I see your location up on the right hand corner, which obviously means you are biased towards Cena. You either live there, or wish you did, or think living there would be cool.
 
I don't live there, I don't wish I did, and I am very happy as a resident of New York who fucking hates every Boston sports team there is. The location is a joke on the fact that Cena didn't really come from the streets, but I should have expected that to go over your head. And I'm not quite sure what that has to do with this discussion, either.

By the way, Stone Cold, Rock, and Michaels did the exact same "get beat up for a lot of the match and then come back" thing as faces. In fact, pretty much every face in wrestling history has done that. You see that tag match on Raw Monday night? Punk did it. It's a formula that has existed for decades and people who try to attribute it solely to Cena are either grasping at straws, know nothing about wrestling history, or try to revise wrestling history to their liking. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that number two doesn't apply to you but numbers one and three certainly do.

What story is he trying to tell? Hmm, let's take a look back for a minute. I'll just name some of his matches that I've really enjoyed over the years.

MITB: Antagonist to CM Punk in his hometown, playing the heel pretty much. He did a similar thing at ECW ONS, and did it beautifully both times.

Raw 07 vs. Michaels: He could WRESTLE for an hour with one of the best, and more than held his own.

RR 07 vs. Umaga: Beat a monster at his own game.

WM 22: He could still win despite the haters and he was here to stay no matter what people thought of him.

WM XXVI: Overcoming weeks filled with self doubt to dig down deep and finally beat Batista.

I could go on, and he did a tremendous job of conveying each emotion that I just listed in those matches. He's done it plenty of times. But haters like you just want to group all of his matches together and act like he's doing something that's so taboo, when really, he's just taken a basic match formula that has been used throughout wrestling history and perfected it while telling stories at the same time.
 
Cena is an awkward wrestler. He is not good technically. Just look at him trying to do a dropkick, its ugly. Same with his fisherman suplex and STF. He has trouble taking some moves and not very good at selling either. What saves him is he is very good at telling a story during a match.

I agree with the other couple of posters his mic skills are overrated. For every great promo he does, he then has 4-5 really bad ones. He uses humor at the wrong time. For example, he was trying to be funny during one of the segments with Punk and Vince. Their was no need for him attempting to make a pre school type joke during that segment.

Best guy on the mic currently in the WWE is Triple H. Its not even close. It mic skills are great.
 

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