**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I think Cena's greatest shortcomings are his mic skills, and to be specific the fun side of his persona. He is very good at selling the intensity of a situation but sadly that is one type of promo that he does not cut very often. Most of his promos are in this relaxed, funny persona of his and to put it in a nutshell, he sucks in this department.

His promos are very corny and laced with idiotic toilet humor that I doubt anyone finds funny. But its not only the content of his promos that bother me. It is his style as well. He speaks with this goofy half grin on his face and most of his jokes end with a s****** and therefore he comes off as underconfident. It comes across to me as if he is begging the audience to laugh at his stuff which just makes it lamer to me. He also sometimes kills off his promos by being funny at the wrong time. I remember one of his promos against Miz in the build up to WM 27 where he was explaining to The Miz how he does not look the part at all due to Alex Riley interfering on his behalf. Then he proceeded to say that Riley eats toilet paper. Totally killed the promo for me.

To be honest I have seen very few of Cena's fans accept this genuine shortcoming that he posesses and nor have I seen a good rebuttal to this statement. What Cena fans say at this point is that The Rock was corny as well, so why do you like him? Well, The Rock had a style that was much more appealing than that of Cena and to be honest it was Rock's style that made him such a great promo cutter, not his content. Fans loved to see him cutting his opponent off, talking at the rate of knots in his big booming voice and not allow his opponent to get a word in edgeways. And by the time his opponent recovered from this verbal onslaught and started to speak, Rock would be back at him again. Cena's style is uninspiring and his content isn't the greatest as well.

Other than that there are very few things that Cena does wrong. He is very good inside the ring and I would say that right now he is better inside the ring than on the mic. The "he is stale" arguement would have held some credence had he started getting booed in 2008. But the fact is that he started getting booed in his first year as champion itself and it is the same people who booed him then that use the "he is stale" arguement. As such, it looks more like a contrived reason more than anything else.

 

[PunkNation26]

Cena COULD have put Punk over CLEANLY, but to this point he hasn't. He had to have his foot on the bottom rope at Summerslam. How do you counter that? You can't say that Cena had no say in that. The fact that the match was billed as being for the WWE UNDISPUTED Championship, and was NEVER going to have a CLEAN finish is complete bullshit, and just further shows why Cena is hated.

Also, just think back to when Brock Lesnar picked up Cena's sawed off ass and F5'd him into the ring post knee first like he was a worthless sack of potatoes. That should show you how ridiculous it has been for Cena to be bought as unbeatable and superhuman.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Cena COULD have put Punk over CLEANLY, but to this point he hasn't. He had to have his foot on the bottom rope at Summerslam. How do you counter that? You can't say that Cena had no say in that. The fact that the match was billed as being for the WWE UNDISPUTED Championship, and was NEVER going to have a CLEAN finish is complete bullshit, and just further shows why Cena is hated.

Also, just think back to when Brock Lesnar picked up Cena's sawed off ass and F5'd him into the ring post knee first like he was a worthless sack of potatoes. That should show you how ridiculous it has been for Cena to be bought as unbeatable and superhuman.

Clean finish? You probably were 4 or 5 in 2001 when Jericho won the title. Do you remember how he won it? Let me give you a hint. It wasn't clean.

 

[The Champ]

Cena COULD have put Punk over CLEANLY, but to this point he hasn't. He had to have his foot on the bottom rope at Summerslam. How do you counter that? You can't say that Cena had no say in that. The fact that the match was billed as being for the WWE UNDISPUTED Championship, and was NEVER going to have a CLEAN finish is complete bullshit, and just further shows why Cena is hated.

Cena has also never beaten Punk clean. And who was the winner in not one, but BOTH of the pay-per-view main events they had? Punk. It doesn't matter if they weren't 100% clean wins, Punk did not cheat and he looked legitimate both times. That's the important thing in putting someone over. Cena made Punk look like a star in both of those matches, put him over both times, and got his win back on a Raw with a distraction from Nash. Oh noez.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

You type a post to complain that people don't understand why you dislike Cena and then go on to type a post using the same cliche and untrue things all Cena-bashers say about him.

Just because something's cliche in your opinion doesn't mean that it's untrue.

Here's the issue... We get that you guys don't like Cena. What would you like us to do about it? Stop liking Cena ourselves? Pretend that what you are saying about his wrestling ability is true?

No one said or suggested that they wanted you, as Cena appreciators, to do anything about it. Maybe we continuously mention our disdain for Cena because there's an open forum to do so and we love the opportunity to share our thoughts with others.

I'd rather just be honest with myself and admit that Cena outdraws everyone you just named.

No one disputed that.

And seriously, saying that Punk carried Cena is one of the dumbest things I keep hearing on this site and it makes everyone who says that look stupid.

Oh no! We should all be careful as to not look stupid in your eyes! But since we're discussing opinions of what looks stupid to us here's what looks stupid to me: Your decision to not point out anything negative with John Cena in your post in an effort to help the idea that you're not just another counteractive Cena sympathizer.

 

[Penguin]

The one and only reason I chant "Cena sucks" at my TV.

1. He is no longer the Doctor of Thuganomics. His spark has been slowly eroded by the writers over the years to the point that we only get glimmers of what he could still be. Being himself with the crowd last night at NOC after he won and just flat out having fun with them was one such a moment and it was a glorious thing.

 

[Tharper16]

I know many people are angry that Cena is Champion again what is like 12th or 13th time in seven years. He had more championships then Undertaker and Stone Cold who were two of the biggest superstars of their time. I hate to say this but john Cena is one of the big modern stars of today. He will be in wwe history sadly and no one can take that away from him. He no longer need the championship to become the best. He his, and will until he retires. i mean look at some of the greats who held the title on and off and not 13 or 16 times. Undertaker, Mankind, Rock, Austin, Bret Hart, Edge, HBK, Brock Lesner, Kurt Angel, Eddie Gurerro. These men are sumented in history not because of how many titles they won but what they did in the ring and their character and giving us great moments. I cannot ever remember John Cena giving us a moment to remember. Can you?

Here are some questions for you

Who (Newcomers/people who never held it) should be in the title hunt instead of cena?

Can he be big without the title?

Has Cena ever gave a OMG! moment?

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Freeze.

You mention guys that have held the title on and off and not 13 or 16 times. Edge was like a 20 time world champion in less than five years and The Rock who won 10 or 11 world titles in less than four years. I don't want to hear that as a criticism of Cena.

Nobody that hasn't won a title deserves to be in the hunt because they're aren't good enough.

I remember Cena's war with JBL at Judgment Day 2005. I remember Cena's first FU on the Big Show. I remember his return at the Royal Rumble.

 

[MetalFace DOOM]

I dont want to hear any criticism of Cena for others wrestlers not being the Draw that he is period.. dont want to hear any criticism period of him, its been lame since day one. Get over it. He's The Draw and The Guy, its not like all this was given to him... He got a Shot and Push from Vince, and guess what?..........HE RAN WITH IT.. Others have won the title over 10 times, whats the big deal or difference?.. I dont see none

OMG moments? really? Little Jerry Lawler already gave you that answer. How about when he took on Kurt Angle in that series before the shorts and wristbands? how about when he started the Rapper Gimmick and thuganomics thing?

How about when John Cena won the WWE title for the first time at Wrestlemania against JBL? how about when he changed the Landscape with that win? How about when he Picked the ball up after Brock Lesnar said "peace WWE im bored with ya's"?

How about when he ARRIVED on the SCENE period?...

The End

 

[Azane]

Time to take any Cena promo from the last 5 years that started with "The champ is here" as we watch Alberto Del Rio get buried, just another victim of the Cena machine. The thing is, that's not really that much different from any other WWE superstar that multi-champs

I don't blame WWE though, Cena draws ratings, even if the IWC and a vocal majority hate him (the "Cena sucks!" part has gotten much louder than the "Let's go Cena!")

At this point, I'm treating it as a love/hate thing, It's so much fun to be a downer on Cena today, that it makes it fun to watch the hate flow.

My biggest complaint isn't even with Cena, it's with the way the title's jumped since Miz dropped it.

 

[SaveUs_Y2J]

When he was champ and facing the likes of R-Truth I didn't mind it seemed fresh in a way but I will admit I was pissed to watch Del Rio get buried last night and I believe Cena will win and lose the strap each month until he is a 30 time champion or something like that he's beating Flair though no doubt about it. But what a waste of Money in the Bank with Del Rio. For just now though someone who has never won it to face Cena I would say perhaps Ziggler (does anyone seriously count that reign) in a little more time with the Us belt and maybe drop Vickie also I think Truth could do it with the help of Miz and I think I read while back of the WWE wanting to turn Miz face so they could set it up some way.

 

[IHW]

im not a big fan of cena, but im also not a cena basher. he earned everything he got.
And as soon as you said that cena hasn't done anything memorable i went and created an account. His rivalry with EDGE was EPIC! the many match, including the tlc match at Unforgiven where cena FU'ed Edge of the ladder onto two stacked tables. or the time he threw Edge in that river. and all his raps on Lita. Cena has done many! memorable things in the WWE. period

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

If only you idiots knew what the word buried means. I pity the lot of you. One loss does not equal burial. It's probably too much to ask of you all but how about we wait a couple of months to see where Albie is at. After all, Edge's first title reign lasted three weeks. Edge did nothing after that.

 

[JaDoE05]

I dont want to hear any criticism of Cena for others wrestlers not being the Draw that he is period.. dont want to hear any criticism period of him, its been lame since day one. Get over it. He's The Draw and The Guy, its not like all this was given to him... He got a Shot and Push from Vince, and guess what?..........HE RAN WITH IT.. Others have won the title over 10 times, whats the big deal or difference?.. I dont see none

OMG moments? really? Little Jerry Lawler already gave you that answer. How about when he took on Kurt Angle in that series before the shorts and wristbands? how about when he started the Rapper Gimmick and thuganomics thing?

How about when John Cena won the WWE title for the first time at Wrestlemania against JBL? how about when he changed the Landscape with that win? How about when he Picked the ball up after Brock Lesnar said "peace WWE im bored with ya's"?

How about when he ARRIVED on the SCENE period?...

The End

I agree with the majority of the essence of this post, however as tired as I am of the Cena bashers, I'm more tired of the people who act like he is God and can do no wrong.

Rapper gimmick, not OMG moment.
"Changed the landscape with that win", opinion as well as not an OMG moment.
"Picked up the ball", not a moment at all.
"Arrived on the scene", I'm assuming you mean when he made it big and not actually his debut, in that case, also not a moment at all.

Yes he can be criticized. He is human. He makes mistakes just like anyone else.

Back on topic though. If you are looking for an OMG moment from him, just look at any of his incredible feats of strength. Example giving two grown men the F-U at the same time...

 

[XXJJ]

Well Cena did a great job of making Del Rio look like a douchebag. Their crappy buildup to their NOC match was about Cena calling ADR the "third wheel", and not believing he is a "real champion". Then he goes out and beats him. Basically confirming everything he said about ADR.

Even the WWE knew Del Rio got buried. I guess thats why he squashed Morrison tonight.

 

[Skinsley]

im not a big fan of cena, but im also not a cena basher. he earned everything he got.
And as soon as you said that cena hasn't done anything memorable i went and created an account. His rivalry with EDGE was EPIC! the many match, including the tlc match at Unforgiven where cena FU'ed Edge of the ladder onto two stacked tables. or the time he threw Edge in that river. and all his raps on Lita. Cena has done many! memorable things in the WWE. period

Edge took the tables off the ladder... Cena simply did an FU. Thats Edge's moment just as the Mick Foley off the Hell in a Cell is a Mick Foley moment and not an Undertaker moment. That doesnt make Cena awesome...it makes Edge Awesome for willing to take the punishment for our entertainment.
Edge agree'd to be thrown into a river... and anyone can Write a rap and then say it with mediocre Rapping skills.... Freestyle my uncle furguss's lucky green testicle.

When it comes to EPIC " hey do you remember when this happend" moments in WWE.... John Cena has none of them.

I dont want to see or hear anything about John Cena until I see a thread saying "what do Owen hart and John Cena have in common?".

 

[#hamler]

I told myself I wouldn't post here, but I can't read shit like this and pass it up.

Edge took the tables off the ladder... Cena simply did an FU. Thats Edge's moment just as the Mick Foley off the Hell in a Cell is a Mick Foley moment and not an Undertaker moment. That doesnt make Cena awesome...it makes Edge Awesome for willing to take the punishment for our entertainment.

I can tell you're trying to come up with anything to make Cena seem less credible then he is. Yes, Mankind is known for the infamous Hell in a Cell moment. At the same time, the Hell in a Cell match has somewhat become Undertaker's specialty. Both Undertaker and Mankind are known for that moment, just like both Cena and Edge are known for the TLC moment.

Edge agree'd to be thrown into a river...

And Cena threw him in. Kayfabe, Edge didn't agree to it.

and anyone can Write a rap and then say it with mediocre Rapping skills.... Freestyle my uncle furguss's lucky green testicle.

Lol.

When it comes to EPIC " hey do you remember when this happend" moments in WWE.... John Cena has none of them.

Do you remember when Shawn Michaels and John Cena wrestled for an hour in England? Do you remember when John Cena picked up both Edge and the Big Show at Wrestlemania? Do you remember Cena making Triple H tap out during their first encounter? Do you remember Cena's title reign which lasted almost a whole year? Do you remember Cena's countless matches with CM Punk on Raw, Money in the Bank or Summerslam. For fuck's sake, Cena's middle name is epic.

I dont want to see or hear anything about John Cena until I see a thread saying "what do Owen hart and John Cena have in common?".

Dude, you seriously need to check yourself here. Totally unnecessary, rude, fucked up and disrespectful. Comments like this won't get you far on this forum. Its fine to hate Cena for all the wrong reasons but you've made it impossible for anyone to treat you with any respect due to that comment.

 

[FlairFan2003]

We actualoly have an entire thread to combine complaints about John Cena ??? Hey, guys who have worked with him have said in interviews that he takes his work very seriously. And lets admitt, most of his big PPV matches, especially the WrestleMania's and SummerSlams, etc have been very good.

Is he as skilled in the ring as Triple H, no, he's probably more skilled though than a lot of other guys who were big over the years.

Can he deliver a quality match for a big event - Yes, and he has several times.

Does he sell merchandise, does his appearance drive ratings - Yes - I doubt WWE would keep him in a high profile position if he didn't.

Has Cena developed a rep for being hard to work with, refusing to job, etc - NO, in fact he's put over Edge, Orton, HHH, etc in high profile matches.

Maybe his gimmick is a little too much "for the kids" to please the older audience that comprises the IWC - Any of you ever watch Hulk Hogan between 1984-1993, he was about as lame, boring, say your prayers, take your vitamins, kid friendly as you could get. I loved when he'd fued with Savage or Flair just because he'd be allowed to act like a grown up. Somehow that gimmick worked though, more successfully and longer than any other in the last 30 years of pro wrestling.

Really, lighten up and give the guy a break - he's the best they have right now, and he's pretty good

 

[It's clobberin' time!]

I hate this constant arguement of hard work. Yes, he's very hard working, fair play to him, and I'm sure he's a fantastic man, and gets on well with a lot of people in the business.

The point that all the hard work arguers miss is this: He is not a good enough wrestler to warrant being the face of the company. End of. His mic skills are poor as well. I'm not saying he's the worse in the roster, but I fail to understand why it was that he was selected to take this role. Yes, he sells merchandise and sells tickets etc, but anyone who got this role handed to them would do the same. I don't understand why of all the wrestlers available he got the nod. There are better men to do the job on the mic, and far farrrrrrrr better wrestlers, that sell moves well and perform actual wrestling moves.

I have nothing against Cena personally. He is indeed a very hard working man. But he's not good enough, it's that simple. I cannot comprehend why on earth he was pushed as head man ahead of others.

 

[Headman]

I hate this constant arguement of hard work. Yes, he's very hard working, fair play to him, and I'm sure he's a fantastic man, and gets on well with a lot of people in the business.

The point that all the hard work arguers miss is this: He is not a good enough wrestler to warrant being the face of the company. End of. His mic skills are poor as well. I'm not saying he's the worse in the roster, but I fail to understand why it was that he was selected to take this role. Yes, he sells merchandise and sells tickets etc, but anyone who got this role handed to them would do the same. I don't understand why of all the wrestlers available he got the nod. There are better men to do the job on the mic, and far farrrrrrrr better wrestlers, that sell moves well and perform actual wrestling moves.

We don't miss that point. We dismiss it because it isn't true. I could tell you that Led Zeppelin wasn't good enough at their instruments to be considered a great rock band, but I would either be lying or wrong. Fans who crap all over Cena's ring work simply don't know what they're talking about and appear foolish every time they do so. I mean who knows more about in-ring ability... Ric Flair or you?

 

[RedStar]

So the defense here is, because we are not Ric Flair, we shouldn't be able to spot when Cena throws an awkward dropkick, or an awkward "belly to belly slam" (I can wrap that in another set of quotes if you like. I'm sure that was the closest description King could find for w/e the frick Cena did to Del Rio at NoC).

There's no getting around it. Cena cannot perform the way others can. His short, stocky, overly built body is not conducive toward wrestling. I don't need to be in the business to know that something stands out from everything else.

Secondly, enough with this "lol he sells merchandise, therefore he good" argument. I'm not sure why a corporate beancounter would frequent a wrestlezone cena complaint thread but it sounds ridiculous. The top (or near top) ANYTHING will sell merchandise more than everything below it. Make sense or no? This doesn't prove anything about Cena other than that people like to buy his awful shirts. Big deal. I don't look at a performer and judge him by how many shirts he sells on WWEshop.com.

By this logic, TNA should bring back every name that might bump ratings up for their next show, regardless of their individual merit, and- oh wait.

I get it, Cena's a great guy and has a great attitude. Maybe Michael McGillicutty does, too. But because the WWE put him in the position he's in, he finds himself:
1) On television, in the main event of every show
2) In all major matches and storylines
3) Rarely involved with talent that isn't already main event level or being pushed hard

Considering that, I can see how someone mediocre could be made to look really damn good.

 

[It's clobberin' time!]

So the defense here is, because we are not Ric Flair, we shouldn't be able to spot when Cena throws an awkward dropkick, or an awkward "belly to belly slam" (I can wrap that in another set of quotes if you like. I'm sure that was the closest description King could find for w/e the frick Cena did to Del Rio at NoC).

Bang on. What a ridiculous comment to make that simply because we aren't in the business we can't make an assessment on wrestling ability.

To push your point further RedStar, I actually believe I heard Jerry refer to Cena 'Throwing' Del Rio on more than one occasion. Throwing eh? What a superb technical wrestling manoeuvre....

 

[Penguin]

A. I'm not a Cena mark by any means, I think his current gimmick has run on for far far too long.

B. Rick flair has had more years in the business than the last two posters age's combined. You are going to have to trust him on a few things.

C. It's not just about being able to hurl yourself around the ring like the flippest of all the flippy things like Kofi or Morrison.
First and foremost you have to know how to tell a story using the medium of rassling, there are very few people who can do this, McGillicutty isn't one of them. Cena, Orton HHH and Punk are examples of people in the business today at the top of their game who can, which is why matches involving these four are so fantastic.
Secondly, it's about being able to hold a crowd in the palm of your hand and adapt/react to them.
Go re-watch the recent Punk Vs Cena matches and also Cena Vs RVD at the 2006 ECW one night stand and you will see just how Good Cena really can be.

Hate the booking, not the man.

 

[It's clobberin' time!]

That final point is utterly ridiculous.
Firstly, who on earth is talking about throwing yourself around the ring? The fact you talk about Kofi and Morrison as though we're referring to those as prime wrestling characters sums up how little you understand the point, those two are just as poor as Cena when it comes to actual wrestling ability.
And the two matches you mention show just how poor Cena is, not good. He gets abused for horrific wrestling performance in both.

 

[Penguin]

I dont want to see or hear anything about John Cena until I see a thread saying "what do Owen hart and John Cena have in common?".

You are without doubt the worst poster in the history of the internet.

Never make light of the Owen Hart tragedy, it's not big, clever, or funny in any way.

You feel the burn when you cry
It starts to come when someone dies
The pain you feel as your eyes swell and the tears will up in the wells
The burn starts to choke you up the words come out slow and shaken
You close your eyes and wonder why
There is a burn when you cry
When Owen left it felt like hands around my throat
I couldn't talk I couldn't see
The Burn over whelmed me
My heart is heavy this is why
You get the burn when you cry
It digs down deep you can not sleep
You toss and turn in your sheets
Awaken with sobs and wet pillow cases
You wander aimlessly looking to the sky
You feel the burn when you cry

-Mark Henry

Rip Owen.