**MERGED** John Cena & The Rock: Match fallout, etc.*KEEP IT ALL IN HERE!*

An enteresting tweet by The Rock on breaking kayfabe:


Rick Rude:
@TheRock you're keeping kayfabe and Cena isn't, and you're still owning him. Keep bringing it to that #KungPowBitch!



The Rock:
"Breaking kayfabe" is easy, cheap and never entertaining. Boys who are desperate do it all the time.

Well this is obviously bullshit. Rick Rude has been dead for 13 years.


I've been saying the same thing ever since that shoot promo by Punk. Breaking kayfabe is like an unfair advantage, it's like fighting dirty, and a cheap way to look good on the mic. Bret Hart wasn't really that good on the mic, but those shoot promos he had with michaels in 1997 made alot of people believe other wise. HBK is another example. Hey don't get me wrong, he was good, but breaking the forth wall took him from good to great. HHH was also known for breaking kayfabe when ever he gets owned on the mic, basically because he doesn't have the ability to respond while staying on character. LOL I X-Pac shoot promo on WCW(When he made his return to WWF in 1998) is arguably one of the highlights of the attitude era, does that make him a great mic worker?

Cena's been using the same dirty tactic in this fued, cause he pretty much knows that this is the only way to go toe to toe with Rock(Verbally) without getting completely outclassed.

Seriously though, I don't understand how Cena is breaking kayfabe. He has often addressed that Rock hasn't been around WWE and hasn't been back much since he said he wasn't leaving. These are true statements that are not secrets. It's not like the fans just said "ya know, now that you mention it Rock hasn't been around." Breaking kayfabe would be discussing things that go on behind the scenes. Everything Cena has said has been about stuff that's out in the open for the fans to see for themselves.
 
Well this is obviously bullshit. Rick Rude has been dead for 13 years.




Seriously though, I don't understand how Cena is breaking kayfabe. He has often addressed that Rock hasn't been around WWE and hasn't been back much since he said he wasn't leaving. These are true statements that are not secrets. It's not like the fans just said "ya know, now that you mention it Rock hasn't been around." Breaking kayfabe would be discussing things that go on behind the scenes. Everything Cena has said has been about stuff that's out in the open for the fans to see for themselves.


Lol Cena took the "Kayfabe breaking" to a whole different level. I mean, the guy's been talking about Rock's having a script writer(He even mentioned his name on TV), he's been talking about Rock's movie career(Tooth Fairy), he's been talking about Rock having notes on his wrist, The breast surgeries, The heat in the lockerroom, hell he don't even call him Rock no more(Dwayne). I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out next week and told us who will be the actual winner of thier WM bout. I mean, come on, he's taking it way too far. We don't need non of that russo-esque crap.
 
I don't care if someone is offended by "white trash". I grew up in central rural missouri and now live in the ozarks. There is a high white trash population here. White trash are basically irresponsible pieces of shit who act like teenagers when they are 30 and have 3 kids they should be taking care of. It's not just white people or just poor people. Being or not being white trash is a choice. You can choose to try to get a job, to not buy a mustang while you live in a shitty apartment, to not waste your paycheck on boos and affliction shirts, you can choose to take care of your kids. You can choose to act like a responsible human being.


How does me bashing rappers at all mean that I can't side with Cena on this part? Cena's wigger character was a heel to me. I didn't like it. "TWJC" means "the white john cena" as in "cena doesn't think he's white".

Yes, most of those characters appeal to immature people, sorry. The difference is that that's ALL Rock does. Under it all, Stone Cold was a representative of every blue collar worker. Yea, it entertains the majority and that's fine. In fact, I've said that many times on here. I can rationalize what I see and can pretty much interpret what's going on. I was just explaining why Rock doesn't appeal to me and it seems to be why he doesn't appeal to most non-Rock fans. It also appears that the Cena fans (on here) are more "Cena appreciators" while Rock fans are diehard Rock marks who just go straight into 'GREATEST MIC WORKER EVAAAAA".

So because people find Rock entertaining they suddenly have 3 kids, an alcohol problem and drive a mustang...

Basically as far as I can ascertain your saying that crude comedy only appeals to immature people. Why then are movies like the Hangover, American Pie, Rush Hour and Anchorman such large scale international hits, with a large paying adult audience? Is Richard Pryor, Billy Conolly and Robin Williams humour beneath you because they use bad language and caricatures?

Rock does exactly the same thing except in the context of the WWE, he observes an opponent, breaks down their flaws, links them to something funny and delivers witty jokes with great expression. Granted some are better than others as with any comedic act but the fact that many have caught on and been used widely is testament to the fact that he is genuinely funny, not just towards immature people. Kids are about as immature as you can get and the majority of them are still firmly in cena's corner.
 
That's one of the things bugging me about Cena. He isn't selling for the Rock at all. The Rock says all this stuff that should be getting him upset, and he just smiles away and says stuff like 'glad the old Rock is back'. Cena hits Rock hard with a shot (the notes on the wrist), and the Rock looks pissed and gets flustered on the mic. Where's the give and take?

It makes me honestly wonder what's going to happen at WM. Is Cena going to take a People's Elbow, pop right back up and go into a belly laugh? Is he going to sell the Rock's offense? Is he going to pull a Shawn Michaels ala his Hulk Hogan match and start overselling to a ridiculous extreme?

I'm sure some will read this and think I'm going overboard and that of course John Cena will sell for the Rock at WM... but honestly, if he can't be bothered doing it on the mic, then who's to say what he will do come match time?

IMO the guy has a lot he could learn from CM Punk.

I agree with this. His little arrogant smirk when the Rock is getting serious is killing the feud. Its like he doesn't take the rock or his threats seriously. The way he is acting does remind me of some of the stuff HBK would pull.

Cena is a terrible seller so I dont think Rock will have to worry about him ridiculously overselling during the match like HBK did to Hogan. :lmao:
 
Really a backstage source said it was a shoot

I'm sorry but how fucking old are you... I'm pretty sure the company would love for you to think that was a shoot. That doesn't make it certain one way or another lol if u wanna buy into this shit have fun. Would be cool if it was real, but again, wrestling is fake.

Where is your hard evidence that it wasn't a shoot? Oh, you don't have any? Guess one of us should either put up or shut up. I'll give you a hint, it's you.

wow man what is life like in your moms basement, this post is ridiculous...

All Rock has proven is he wants to beat Cena up, not win the match....

SO what maybe that is the route decide to go... u don't win a match without beating up someone...

They go hand in hand except for someone who wants to contort reality to match up with their opinion.

You're a hater we get it... just don't start twisting shit around to make it seem as if it has any basis in anything credible. You just don't like the Rock, just say it and that's it

U don't need to come up with this preposterous shit to make it seem like you are right or your shit is grounded in any other aspect of reality besides the fact you don't prefer rock because u don't like his sense of humor lol... I love it because the usual thing was he can't wrestle, y'all can't do that because all the sudden the IWCC and purists are Cena fans ahahah yall are jokes.

Rather than responding properly to this (Steve beat me to it and did it fantastically), I want to propose a question to anyone who is still reading my long-winded posts (and I wouldn't blame you if you don't). Has any fan of Cena's in this thread posted anything resembling this post by Brah? I don't mean to imply that everyone supporting The Rock has this type of mentality, because I know for a fact that most of you don't, but I get the distinct impression that everyone who posts in this style so far has supported The Rock in this feud.


Lol Cena took the "Kayfabe breaking" to a whole different level. I mean, the guy's been talking about Rock's having a script writer(He even mentioned his name on TV), he's been talking about Rock's movie career(Tooth Fairy), he's been talking about Rock having notes on his wrist, The breast surgeries, The heat in the lockerroom, hell he don't even call him Rock no more(Dwayne). I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out next week and told us who will be the actual winner of thier WM bout. I mean, come on, he's taking it way too far. We don't need non of that russo-esque crap.

"Kayfabe breaking" to a whole different level? Are you joking? Talk about hyperbole to the max. By that logic, The Rock mentioned Cena's wife, Cena's movie career, and the IWC's complaint of Cena being shoved down everyone's throats. As for "Dwayne", Rock used his own name first during his comeback promo when he asked everyone to add him on Facebook and Twitter. As far as having heat backstage and writing notes on his wrist, Cena hasn't been reported to have heat backstage, and according to Orton, Cena either memorizes or improvises a good amount of his promos, so The Rock has no way to call him out in that respect. Honestly, the ONLY thing we know that wasn't discussed between them in this was the wrist writing thing. Other than that, you're speculating completely.

All of that aside, if you really think any of this is "Russo-esque", spend less time on forums and watch actual videos of what "Russo-esque" promos looked like, because this doesn't even come close. They are both taking "personal" shots to make the feud look real and get us talking, and look at that, it's working. I'm almost always a proponent of showing respect to all opinions, but with all due respect (and I say this ironically, since I honestly don't think your post is due any respect), this particular basis for your opinion is biased and stupid (mostly the latter).
 
So because people find Rock entertaining they suddenly have 3 kids, an alcohol problem and drive a mustang...

Basically as far as I can ascertain your saying that crude comedy only appeals to immature people. Why then are movies like the Hangover, American Pie, Rush Hour and Anchorman such large scale international hits, with a large paying adult audience? Is Richard Pryor, Billy Conolly and Robin Williams humour beneath you because they use bad language and caricatures?

Rock does exactly the same thing except in the context of the WWE, he observes an opponent, breaks down their flaws, links them to something funny and delivers witty jokes with great expression. Granted some are better than others as with any comedic act but the fact that many have caught on and been used widely is testament to the fact that he is genuinely funny, not just towards immature people. Kids are about as immature as you can get and the majority of them are still firmly in cena's corner.
Most people are amused by crudeness. It sells. Why else is Jersey Shore so big? A MAJORITY of people are dumb and easily entertained. Also, if you know ANYTHING about the movie industry, 25 and over is considered "old" as an audience. People 25 and up don't go to the movies, they have lives. People 25 and over don't watch TV as religiously as the younger audience. Teens and white trash in their early 20s who like to live vicariously through celebrities are the bread and butter of the entertainment industry. It's why jersey shore is so popular.

It's dumb of you to think that cussing was why Richard Pryor was funny. He (along with Carlin) made points about society. It was a lot deeper than that.

Kids and teens aren't that much different as far as immaturity. I'm not, and never have said that Rock isn't over. I'm just saying that the majority of people who find him amusing are teens and white trash.

Also, cena "shooting" on Rock for being a phoney movie star with people who write his shit and writes his notes on his wrists and is never there isn't anymore "breaking kayfabe" than Rock saying that cena's fans are kids and women, or that Cena wears bright colors. They're both things that can be easily observed. If Rock didn't want cena to bring these things up....maybe he shouldn't have left.
 
Most people are amused by crudeness. It sells. Why else is Jersey Shore so big? A MAJORITY of people are dumb and easily entertained. Also, if you know ANYTHING about the movie industry, 25 and over is considered "old" as an audience. People 25 and up don't go to the movies, they have lives. People 25 and over don't watch TV as religiously as the younger audience. Teens and white trash in their early 20s who like to live vicariously through celebrities are the bread and butter of the entertainment industry. It's why jersey shore is so popular.

It's dumb of you to think that cussing was why Richard Pryor was funny. He (along with Carlin) made points about society. It was a lot deeper than that.

Kids and teens aren't that much different as far as immaturity. I'm not, and never have said that Rock isn't over. I'm just saying that the majority of people who find him amusing are teens and white trash.

Also, cena "shooting" on Rock for being a phoney movie star with people who write his shit and writes his notes on his wrists and is never there isn't anymore "breaking kayfabe" than Rock saying that cena's fans are kids and women, or that Cena wears bright colors. They're both things that can be easily observed. If Rock didn't want cena to bring these things up....maybe he shouldn't have left.

So in your eyes the majority of the worlds population are and i quote 'dumb', I'm not quite sure where you seem to have developed the superiority complex dude. I would also love to see the figures that state that people over 25 don't go to the movies, i'm 21 and go out most weekends clubbing as the majority of people my age do, I'd think the older you get the more likely you are to choose cinema as a recreational activity. If you follow the link youl see peoples tv/cinema going habits by age in my home country, the UK http://sy09.ukfilmcouncil.ry.com/?id=4133 so yeah older people watch more tv and fequent the cinema only slightly less. It's irrelevant to my point anyway in that plenty of people i know over 25 still love crude comedy and are not uneducated 'white trash' as you put it.

As for the Richard Pryor comment you completely missed my point, I wasn't saying Pryor was funny because he swears I was saying the points he makes are funny, because they satirise elements of society even whilst being crude, similar to Rock's treatment of superstars like cena. It's fine if you don't like the type of promo Rock delivers I've criticised Cena's promo style plenty in this thread, just don't act as if people that enjoy him are in some way inferior.
 
So in your eyes the majority of the worlds population are and i quote 'dumb', I'm not quite sure where you seem to have developed the superiority complex dude. I would also love to see the figures that state that people over 25 don't go to the movies, i'm 21 and go out most weekends clubbing as the majority of people my age do, I'd think the older you get the more likely you are to choose cinema as a recreational activity. If you follow the link youl see peoples tv/cinema going habits by age in my home country, the UK http://sy09.ukfilmcouncil.ry.com/?id=4133 so yeah older people watch more tv and fequent the cinema only slightly less. It's irrelevant to my point anyway in that plenty of people i know over 25 still love crude comedy and are not uneducated 'white trash' as you put it.

As for the Richard Pryor comment you completely missed my point, I wasn't saying Pryor was funny because he swears I was saying the points he makes are funny, because they satirise elements of society even whilst being crude, similar to Rock's treatment of superstars like cena. It's fine if you don't like the type of promo Rock delivers I've criticised Cena's promo style plenty in this thread, just don't act as if people that enjoy him are in some way inferior.
Damn dude, read the whole post. The majority of people who go to movies are teens and people under 25 without careers. Thus, movies that are popular appeal to them. This means that successful movies and really anything in entertainment are ones that appeal to a less mature audience.

There's a difference between enjoying Rock and thinking it's amazing. Thinking that Rock telling Cena to shove things up his ass is some sort of amazing putdown does, in my opinion, make you less mature. Rock really isn't saying anything you wouldn't hear a middle school say to another middle schooler. The stuff Pryor said was a lot more potent and a lot smarter. Rock is basically calling Cena "four eyes".

Also, I really don't care about UK statistics. The UK isn't the home of entertainment. The US, believe it or not, pretty much runs shit when it comes to entertainment. We have hollywood, you don't. You have amazing actors (Bale, Day-Lewis, Oldman, etc) but when it comes to producing and creating stuff that's globally popular, it happens in Hollywood.

It is a fact that studios consider an audience of people over 25 to be "old". Look at all the top grossing movies every year and tell me they don't appeal to a younger, more immature audience.

Entertaiment is for young people because young people care more about what other people think. They also don't have as many responsibilities that take priority.

http://www.mpaa.org/resources/93bbeb16-0e4d-4b7e-b085-3f41c459f9ac.pdf

% frequent moviegoers by age
age 2-11 9%
age 12-17 18%
age 18-24 21%
age 25-39 22%
age 40-49 10%
age 50-59 8%
age 60+ 12%

How much you wanna bet that a large part of the people over 25 that go are taking the people in the age brackets 2-11 and some of the kids in the age 12-17?

You have 48% of frequent moviegoers under the age of 25, and likely a large percent of the next highest age bracket (25-39) probably bringing in those.

Not only that, but if you look at the per capita graph, there is a huge spike in that 12-24 age range (which makes up for the fact that we simply have more older people than young people due to the baby boomer generation).

If you look at attendance of 3D movies, there is a peak in the teens and then it declines.

Look at the top movies that year (data is from 2010) Avatar, Toy Story 3, Alice in Wonderland, Iron Man, Twilight, Inception, Harry Potter, who do you think these films appeal the most to?

Cinemas target people under 25. They are most likely to become superfans of something. You don't see very many normal or successful people over 25 with Twilight or Batman shirts on in their everyday life.

Which brings me to another point. Merchandise. People under 25 are more likely to buy merchandise that's essentially advertising an entertainment entity.

If that isn't enough evidence for you, just look at the WWE audience. Most people there are under 25 and those that aren't have kids. My whole point isn't that Rock isn't successful or over. My point is that he doesn't appeal to me because I feel like his stuff is immature. My OTHER point is that his stuff (and the attitude era if you want to expand it, and Jersey Shore if you want to expand it even more) is/was over because it is immature and that's what the demographic likes.
 
Right ye all that up there.


I'll say something here. I'm pretty sure that Cena coming and interrupting The Rock and mocking his wrist note WHILE THEY WERE STILL THERE! wasn't really scripted.

Then Cena coming out and mocking how The Rock stumbled like a headless chicken after that point-out looked to have pissed The Rock off legit. At some point I thought he is gonna just fucking punch him in the face.

Cena is really getting under The Rock's skin here. You can just sense it. His cynical smirks, and stripping down the catchphrase lines are getting to The Great One.

And to be honest, I have fears of a stiff STIFF match. Because this is boiling and boiling.

Or








they could both be really good actors and make me feel all this is legit. Both ways, I win.
 
Right ye all that up there.


I'll say something here. I'm pretty sure that Cena coming and interrupting The Rock and mocking his wrist note WHILE THEY WERE STILL THERE! wasn't really scripted.

Then Cena coming out and mocking how The Rock stumbled like a headless chicken after that point-out looked to have pissed The Rock off legit. At some point I thought he is gonna just fucking punch him in the face.

Cena is really getting under The Rock's skin here. You can just sense it. His cynical smirks, and stripping down the catchphrase lines are getting to The Great One.

And to be honest, I have fears of a stiff STIFF match. Because this is boiling and boiling.

Or








they could both be really good actors and make me feel all this is legit. Both ways, I win.
This guy gets it. In fact, if I were Rock and Cena I'd start the match out with the stare, the shoves, a tie up, then have a few scuffles that seem legit, then turn it into a worked shoot for a while. Maybe not though, they are smarter than me.

Like you said, either way, we win.
 
"Kayfabe breaking" to a whole different level? Are you joking? Talk about hyperbole to the max. By that logic, The Rock mentioned Cena's wife, Cena's movie career, and the IWC's complaint of Cena being shoved down everyone's throats. As for "Dwayne", Rock used his own name first during his comeback promo when he asked everyone to add him on Facebook and Twitter. As far as having heat backstage and writing notes on his wrist, Cena hasn't been reported to have heat backstage, and according to Orton, Cena either memorizes or improvises a good amount of his promos, so The Rock has no way to call him out in that respect. Honestly, the ONLY thing we know that wasn't discussed between them in this was the wrist writing thing. Other than that, you're speculating completely.

All of that aside, if you really think any of this is "Russo-esque", spend less time on forums and watch actual videos of what "Russo-esque" promos looked like, because this doesn't even come close. They are both taking "personal" shots to make the feud look real and get us talking, and look at that, it's working. I'm almost always a proponent of showing respect to all opinions, but with all due respect (and I say this ironically, since I honestly don't think your post is due any respect), this particular basis for your opinion is biased and stupid (mostly the latter).



"The Rock mentioned Cena's wife, Cena's movie career, and the IWC's complaint of Cena being shoved down everyone's throats."


I never said Rock wasn't breaking kayfabe, but it was just a response to Cena's shoot promos. In other words, Cena started it.



"As for "Dwayne", Rock used his own name first during his comeback promo when he asked everyone to add him on Facebook and Twitter."

What does this have to do with their verbal battle? Beside the dwayne thing in his return speech was directed to his fans who supported him over the years. Nothing to do with Cena.



"As far as having heat backstage and writing notes on his wrist, Cena hasn't been reported to have heat backstage, and according to Orton, Cena either memorizes or improvises a good amount of his promos, so The Rock has no way to call him out in that respect."


So you don't consider Cena calling Rock out on those notes as a shoot?!







"All of that aside, if you really think any of this is "Russo-esque", spend less time on forums and watch actual videos of what "Russo-esque" promos looked like, because this doesn't even come close. They are both taking "personal" shots to make the feud look real and get us talking, and look at that, it's working. I'm almost always a proponent of showing respect to all opinions, but with all due respect (and I say this ironically, since I honestly don't think your post is due any respect), this particular basis for your opinion is biased and stupid (mostly the latter)."


Trust me, you're no better. Calling out someone for having notes on his wrist is something Russo would do.
 
"The Rock mentioned Cena's wife, Cena's movie career, and the IWC's complaint of Cena being shoved down everyone's throats."


I never said Rock wasn't breaking kayfabe, but it was just a response to Cena's shoot promos. In other words, Cena started it.



"As for "Dwayne", Rock used his own name first during his comeback promo when he asked everyone to add him on Facebook and Twitter."

What does this have to do with their verbal battle? Beside the dwayne thing in his return speech was directed to his fans who supported him over the years. Nothing to do with Cena.



"As far as having heat backstage and writing notes on his wrist, Cena hasn't been reported to have heat backstage, and according to Orton, Cena either memorizes or improvises a good amount of his promos, so The Rock has no way to call him out in that respect."


So you don't consider Cena calling Rock out on those notes as a shoot?!







"All of that aside, if you really think any of this is "Russo-esque", spend less time on forums and watch actual videos of what "Russo-esque" promos looked like, because this doesn't even come close. They are both taking "personal" shots to make the feud look real and get us talking, and look at that, it's working. I'm almost always a proponent of showing respect to all opinions, but with all due respect (and I say this ironically, since I honestly don't think your post is due any respect), this particular basis for your opinion is biased and stupid (mostly the latter)."


Trust me, you're no better. Calling out someone for having notes on his wrist is something Russo would do.
No, Russo would have booked their match at a house show. Then a rematch at hell in a cell. Then at wrestlemania the match would be a special referee last blood on a pole match.

It's not a "he said he said" thing. Two guys just using what they do. Cena's character is big on hustle LOYALTY respect. His character feels like Hollywood Rocky isn't loyal. So he calls him out. at this point, Rock being a movie star isn't out of kayfabe, that IS his character. Him having well rehearsed promos with notes IS his character. it's not a shoot.

None of these promos come across as shoots to me. Just two characters that don't like each other. It just so happens that Cena's and rock's characters are basically their everyday selves only with the volume turned up.

Rocky fans bitching about "Cena cheating for shooting" are being really silly. Nobody is shooting here. It's a very modern feud and they are both staying in character.
 
No, Russo would have booked their match at a house show. Then a rematch at hell in a cell. Then at wrestlemania the match would be a special referee last blood on a pole match.

It's not a "he said he said" thing. Two guys just using what they do. Cena's character is big on hustle LOYALTY respect. His character feels like Hollywood Rocky isn't loyal. So he calls him out. at this point, Rock being a movie star isn't out of kayfabe, that IS his character. Him having well rehearsed promos with notes IS his character. it's not a shoot.

None of these promos come across as shoots to me. Just two characters that don't like each other. It just so happens that Cena's and rock's characters are basically their everyday selves only with the volume turned up.

Rocky fans bitching about "Cena cheating for shooting" are being really silly. Nobody is shooting here. It's a very modern feud and they are both staying in character.


"Cena's character is big on hustle LOYALTY respect. His character feels like Hollywood Rocky isn't loyal. So he calls him out"

Exactly, "Respect". Recently, Cena's been missing this huge part of his personality, 'wondering why? :shrug:


"at this point, Rock being a movie star isn't out of kayfabe, that IS his character"

Maybe...but he's not really embracing it like he did 9yrs ago.



"Him having well rehearsed promos with notes IS his character. it's not a shoot."


lol :wtf:



"Rocky fans bitching about "Cena cheating for shooting" are being really silly. Nobody is shooting here. It's a very modern feud and they are both staying in character."


Yeah, whatever...Saying you have a script writer is not neccessarily breaking kayfabe.
 
Damn dude, read the whole post. The majority of people who go to movies are teens and people under 25 without careers. Thus, movies that are popular appeal to them. This means that successful movies and really anything in entertainment are ones that appeal to a less mature audience.

There's a difference between enjoying Rock and thinking it's amazing. Thinking that Rock telling Cena to shove things up his ass is some sort of amazing putdown does, in my opinion, make you less mature. Rock really isn't saying anything you wouldn't hear a middle school say to another middle schooler. The stuff Pryor said was a lot more potent and a lot smarter. Rock is basically calling Cena "four eyes".

Also, I really don't care about UK statistics. The UK isn't the home of entertainment. The US, believe it or not, pretty much runs shit when it comes to entertainment. We have hollywood, you don't. You have amazing actors (Bale, Day-Lewis, Oldman, etc) but when it comes to producing and creating stuff that's globally popular, it happens in Hollywood.

It is a fact that studios consider an audience of people over 25 to be "old". Look at all the top grossing movies every year and tell me they don't appeal to a younger, more immature audience.

Entertaiment is for young people because young people care more about what other people think. They also don't have as many responsibilities that take priority.

http://www.mpaa.org/resources/93bbeb16-0e4d-4b7e-b085-3f41c459f9ac.pdf

% frequent moviegoers by age
age 2-11 9%
age 12-17 18%
age 18-24 21%
age 25-39 22%
age 40-49 10%
age 50-59 8%
age 60+ 12%

How much you wanna bet that a large part of the people over 25 that go are taking the people in the age brackets 2-11 and some of the kids in the age 12-17?

You have 48% of frequent moviegoers under the age of 25, and likely a large percent of the next highest age bracket (25-39) probably bringing in those.

Not only that, but if you look at the per capita graph, there is a huge spike in that 12-24 age range (which makes up for the fact that we simply have more older people than young people due to the baby boomer generation).

If you look at attendance of 3D movies, there is a peak in the teens and then it declines.

Look at the top movies that year (data is from 2010) Avatar, Toy Story 3, Alice in Wonderland, Iron Man, Twilight, Inception, Harry Potter, who do you think these films appeal the most to?

Cinemas target people under 25. They are most likely to become superfans of something. You don't see very many normal or successful people over 25 with Twilight or Batman shirts on in their everyday life.

Which brings me to another point. Merchandise. People under 25 are more likely to buy merchandise that's essentially advertising an entertainment entity.

If that isn't enough evidence for you, just look at the WWE audience. Most people there are under 25 and those that aren't have kids. My whole point isn't that Rock isn't successful or over. My point is that he doesn't appeal to me because I feel like his stuff is immature. My OTHER point is that his stuff (and the attitude era if you want to expand it, and Jersey Shore if you want to expand it even more) is/was over because it is immature and that's what the demographic likes.

Nice debate about the movies although I would still hardly call the UK irrelevant but I guess I just think your making a bit of a sweeping generalisation when saying the majority of Rock fans are immature, you have no evidence to support this except your own personal viewpoint. Your probably right in saying that the majority of the WWE audience is under 25 yet that reflects upon all the wrestlers, not just the Rock in fact probably him less so as he isn't full-time at the moment and when he was wrestling drew a slightly older crowd. The merchandise sales is anything probably contradicts your point about Rock being juvenile, in that kid and young teens are the prime consumers of Cena's merch, whilst older fans are more likely to purchase Rock's. Testament to the fact that cena's core audience and support base is still children whereas Rock appeals to a more mature audience, who's level of education is diverse and impossible to categorise.

Yes I've said all along that some of his stuff is juvenile, the ass example you gave would be one of them but some of his other stuff is well thought out and genuinely funny for example the fruity pebble and teletubby/vanilla ice lines. I'm by no means saying that Rock is as funny or comedically talented as Pryor I'm just saying in his better stuff the same type of satire is reflected.
 
"The Rock mentioned Cena's wife, Cena's movie career, and the IWC's complaint of Cena being shoved down everyone's throats."


I never said Rock wasn't breaking kayfabe, but it was just a response to Cena's shoot promos. In other words, Cena started it.



"As for "Dwayne", Rock used his own name first during his comeback promo when he asked everyone to add him on Facebook and Twitter."

What does this have to do with their verbal battle? Beside the dwayne thing in his return speech was directed to his fans who supported him over the years. Nothing to do with Cena.



"As far as having heat backstage and writing notes on his wrist, Cena hasn't been reported to have heat backstage, and according to Orton, Cena either memorizes or improvises a good amount of his promos, so The Rock has no way to call him out in that respect."

So you don't consider Cena calling Rock out on those notes as a shoot?!

"All of that aside, if you really think any of this is "Russo-esque", spend less time on forums and watch actual videos of what "Russo-esque" promos looked like, because this doesn't even come close. They are both taking "personal" shots to make the feud look real and get us talking, and look at that, it's working. I'm almost always a proponent of showing respect to all opinions, but with all due respect (and I say this ironically, since I honestly don't think your post is due any respect), this particular basis for your opinion is biased and stupid (mostly the latter)."


Trust me, you're no better. Calling out someone for having notes on his wrist is something Russo would do.

"He started it" is not legitimate justification for an action. If you call this "kayfabe breaking" and criticize Cena for it, I was pointing out why you should be have a problem with The Rock for doing it, too. The reason I don't bring it up as a criticism is because I don't think it's a big deal, and I think you're looking for any reason you can to criticize Cena since you're evidently willing to overlook anything to favor The Rock in this feud with a fanatical mindset usually reserved to worship of religion and Salma Hayek.

You are the one who brought up Cena using The Rock's real name as "breaking kayfabe". I was pointing out that The Rock did it first. I personally don't think it was a big deal either way, but you seemed to feel that way in the post I was responding to.

At what point in my explanation did I say that Cena pointing out the wrist notes wasn't a shoot? The excerpt of my post that you quoted didn't even imply that anywhere. I was saying that The Rock has had no opportunity to criticize Cena for the similar things, so it's an unbalanced comparison, the same way that Cena can't criticize The Rock for releasing a series of failed movies. That's why The Rock can call out Cena for making awful movies (I'm guessing they were bad, since I didn't want to see any of them), and Cena can only make fun of The Rock taking one or two silly roles.

I had trouble gathering the motivation to respond after your "I know you are but what am I" that started your post, but I somehow pushed through. Calling out someone for wrist notes is not very personally offensive. That is an insult at someone's abilities at being professional. Russo's booking hit far, FAR deeper than anything that either star has said so far. Russo brought into light that Karen left Angle for Jarrett almost immediately after it actually happened. Do you really think that's on the same level as what Cena and The Rock have been doing? Again, don't build your opinions on what people have written about Russo on a forum. Watch the actual promos, so you can see how wrong you are.
 
Nice debate about the movies although I would still hardly call the UK irrelevant but I guess I just think your making a bit of a sweeping generalisation when saying the majority of Rock fans are immature, you have no evidence to support this except your own personal viewpoint. Your probably right in saying that the majority of the WWE audience is under 25 yet that reflects upon all the wrestlers, not just the Rock in fact probably him less so as he isn't full-time at the moment and when he was wrestling drew a slightly older crowd. The merchandise sales is anything probably contradicts your point about Rock being juvenile, in that kid and young teens are the prime consumers of Cena's merch, whilst older fans are more likely to purchase Rock's. Testament to the fact that cena's core audience and support base is still children whereas Rock appeals to a more mature audience, who's level of education is diverse and impossible to categorise.

Yes I've said all along that some of his stuff is juvenile, the ass example you gave would be one of them but some of his other stuff is well thought out and genuinely funny for example the fruity pebble and teletubby/vanilla ice lines. I'm by no means saying that Rock is as funny or comedically talented as Pryor I'm just saying in his better stuff the same type of satire is reflected.
O my god dude. Ask anyone off the street "what type of person does pro wrestling appeal to" they'll say "dumb".

The UK is pretty damn irrelevant because they don't primarily run shows there. that'd be like saying "well, President Obama is popular in South Africa" awesome, that's good, but not as important as being popular in the US.

People 25 and under are the only people who really buy entertainment merchandise because you look foolish if you're older and you have it on.

Rock's fans are immature, because entertaiment fans and especially pro wrestling fans are immature. Cena's fans are also immature. My point is, my whole point that you are missing is that the people who like Cena ON HERE are older and more mature. The live audiences and the core WWE audience isn't at all reflective of the Cena fans on here.

Here you go:
http://adsales.wwe.com/research/

.S. Audience Profile:**


Demographics


•61% are male
•15% are ages 12-17
•67% are ages 18-49
•41% are males 18-34
•33% are non-white
•29% have a HHI of 75K or higher
•15% have a HHI of 100K or higher


In other words, over 70% of their audience is middle class and under. Most, despite what you think about Cena and "TEH AUDIENCE IZ ALL KIDZ!!!! ZOMG", that's not true. So yea, fuck ******s who don't look up anything, unless the audience has drastically changed since then.

So let's recap, most of their fans aren't wealthy at all. Most of their fans (not as much as you'd think) are male. Most of them are under 35. Hmmm, now what have I been describing?

And because for whatever reason you think the global shit matters, which it does don't get me wrong, it just doesn't matter very much. Here are the global stats.

•63% are male
•35% between 15-24
•25% between 25-34
•19% between 35-44
•12% between 45-54
•9% 55 +

Again, it looks like the WWE, like any other smart business that is in entertainment, is look at the 12-25 year old sweet spot for people who buy shit and get obsessed with something that really isn't important to their life in the grand scheme of things.
 
"Cena's character is big on hustle LOYALTY respect. His character feels like Hollywood Rocky isn't loyal. So he calls him out"

Exactly, "Respect". Recently, Cena's been missing this huge part of his personality, 'wondering why? :shrug:


"at this point, Rock being a movie star isn't out of kayfabe, that IS his character"

Maybe...but he's not really embracing it like he did 9yrs ago.



"Him having well rehearsed promos with notes IS his character. it's not a shoot."


lol :wtf:



"Rocky fans bitching about "Cena cheating for shooting" are being really silly. Nobody is shooting here. It's a very modern feud and they are both staying in character."


Yeah, whatever...Saying you have a script writer is not neccessarily breaking kayfabe.
"respect" doesn't mean treating a guy you think is a piece of shit nicely. Do you understand respect? Cena is defending pro wrestling (in his character's mind). Can you not rationalize?

Rock was a heel 9 years ago. He's not now. CM Punk isn't throwing it in everyone's face that he's better than them because he's straightedge and hasn't really been talking about being straightedge, doesn't mean it's no still a part of his character. Again, how is this not obvious to you?

What do you mean "lol wft?" Saying "Him having well rehearsed promos with notes IS his character. it's not a shoot" is no different than saying "The Joke is a crazy person who wears purple, carries knives, and kills people." The Rock the character is an arrogant movie star who has very elaborate promos. It's shit that you can see. It's not like people wouldn't notice this shit if Cena didn't bring it up. Maybe "lol wtf" at you for being too stupid to see what's right in front of you.

I agree, saying you have a script writer isn't breaking kayfabe. This is 2012, Dwayne Johnson is a huge movie star. Most people assume he has people who write shit, hell they assume most guys have their promos scripted for them. So why do Rock fans get pissed when Cena doesn't do the typical "YOU'RE A WEINER FACE" style of promo?
 
O my god dude. Ask anyone off the street "what type of person does pro wrestling appeal to" they'll say "dumb".

The UK is pretty damn irrelevant because they don't primarily run shows there. that'd be like saying "well, President Obama is popular in South Africa" awesome, that's good, but not as important as being popular in the US.

People 25 and under are the only people who really buy entertainment merchandise because you look foolish if you're older and you have it on.

Rock's fans are immature, because entertaiment fans and especially pro wrestling fans are immature. Cena's fans are also immature. My point is, my whole point that you are missing is that the people who like Cena ON HERE are older and more mature. The live audiences and the core WWE audience isn't at all reflective of the Cena fans on here.

Here you go:
http://adsales.wwe.com/research/

.S. Audience Profile:**


Demographics


•61% are male
•15% are ages 12-17
•67% are ages 18-49
•41% are males 18-34
•33% are non-white
•29% have a HHI of 75K or higher
•15% have a HHI of 100K or higher


In other words, over 70% of their audience is middle class and under. Most, despite what you think about Cena and "TEH AUDIENCE IZ ALL KIDZ!!!! ZOMG", that's not true. So yea, fuck ******s who don't look up anything, unless the audience has drastically changed since then.

So let's recap, most of their fans aren't wealthy at all. Most of their fans (not as much as you'd think) are male. Most of them are under 35. Hmmm, now what have I been describing?

And because for whatever reason you think the global shit matters, which it does don't get me wrong, it just doesn't matter very much. Here are the global stats.

•63% are male
•35% between 15-24
•25% between 25-34
•19% between 35-44
•12% between 45-54
•9% 55 +

Again, it looks like the WWE, like any other smart business that is in entertainment, is look at the 12-25 year old sweet spot for people who buy shit and get obsessed with something that really isn't important to their life in the grand scheme of things.

Honestly dude you are so condescending, I find it pretty ironic how you are ranting on about Cena fans on this forum being more mature, yet you are proving yourself to be one of the most immature people I've encountered on here through the way you address people. Besides so what if people who like Cena on this forum are more mature, a point I completely disagree with incidentally.

The fact is that the majority of people in general prefer the Rock and you have no way of proving their overall level of maturity, although it is probably pretty diverse, you can be young and still be intelligent and grown-up. And the live and general tv audience is the one which matters on the grand scale of things the 'IWC', is a mere blip in the radar. It is also still a fact that more children are into Cena, perhaps naturally as he is the hero figure that they have grown up with, in the same vein the majority of the older audience relate to the Rock.

I really don't see how the demographic consisting of primarily younger viewers relfects badly on the Rock, if anything it's an indictment on cena and the rets of the full-time talent for being unable to hold the interest of older more 'mature' viewers.
 
You know, I think a few of us have put a little too much focus on labeling fans as mature or immature. It's gotten to the point where we're insulting opposing fans as a way of supporting our favorite stars, which sounds kinda stupid when I try to look at it objectively. Can we just agree that it really doesn't matter whether the average fan of Rock or Cena is mature or not? I mean to include myself in this, because I recognize that I've been just as guilty as many of you in expressing my opinions regarding many of The Rock's fans.

This feud is just between Rock and Cena. If you think Cena is being cheap with his "breaking kayfabe" remarks, if you think Cena is lame and shoved down your throats, or if you think crazy off-the-wall insults are hilarious, then you'll probably cheer for The Rock. If you think Cena is a good role model, if you think The Rock's insults are repetitive and nonsensical, or if you think that Cena does a better job of cutting The Rock deeply in his promos, then you'll probably cheer for Cena. I personally think it would be better to just leave all of this fan-war nonsense out of it.

This feud has something for both crowds, and in my 15-20 years of watching the wrestling industry grow, I have never seen anything quite like it. A little back-and-forth debate is fun and all, but let's just try to remember that this is a booked feud, so there isn't really a reason to take all of this so personally and attack each other. It's easier to sit back, enjoy the show, hope "your guy" wins, and have friendly debates from time to time.

TL;DR version:

Chill the fuck out, everyone.
 
Honestly dude you are so condescending, I find it pretty ironic how you are ranting on about Cena fans on this forum being more mature, yet you are proving yourself to be one of the most immature people I've encountered on here through the way you address people. Besides so what if people who like Cena on this forum are more mature, a point I completely disagree with incidentally.

The fact is that the majority of people in general prefer the Rock and you have no way of proving their overall level of maturity, although it is probably pretty diverse, you can be young and still be intelligent and grown-up. And the live and general tv audience is the one which matters on the grand scale of things the 'IWC', is a mere blip in the radar. It is also still a fact that more children are into Cena, perhaps naturally as he is the hero figure that they have grown up with, in the same vein the majority of the older audience relate to the Rock.

I really don't see how the demographic consisting of primarily younger viewers relfects badly on the Rock, if anything it's an indictment on cena and the rets of the full-time talent for being unable to hold the interest of older more 'mature' viewers.
Actually using statistics and saying "the majority of their audience is 25 and under or if they're over that, they're taking their kids, and they're less successful people is a pretty good way at looking at it.

Not only that, but look at how most posts are. Rock fans are basically just hating on cena. Cena supporters see both sides.

I don't care if you think it's condescending the way I talk to people. When I can, and have, backed up my opinion with stats that correlate then it's not really soley an opinion anymore is it?

Again, you fail to see my point. So, ONCE AGAIN I'll say it "Rock's fans are immature, because entertaiment fans and especially pro wrestling fans are immature. Cena's fans are also immature. My point is, my whole point that you are missing is that the people who like Cena ON HERE are older and more mature. The live audiences and the core WWE audience isn't at all reflective of the Cena fans on here."

In other words "both Cena and Rock fans are probably less mature than your average bear, on here, out of the two it seems that Cena fans are more mature because they rationalize things better and see both sides."

I'm not even sure you're arguing against me anymore, but I think instead you've pulled a strawman argument out to make it seem like I'm saying something I'm not. You basically said everything I said. That the majority of fans in the arenas are immature. It's what entertainment, and thus, wrestling, generally targets anyways. It was an observation that Rock fans on here would be less educated. We could do a study if you really wanted to. However, people would probably lie.

I was only doing what was really a trend in Cena fans, I was trying to get a grasp on the big picture and not just name call. I wanted to get a more broad understanding so I hypothesized, did some research, and a lot of my thoughts were backed up. Then again, could have been self-fullfilling.
 
You know, I think a few of us have put a little too much focus on labeling fans as mature or immature. It's gotten to the point where we're insulting opposing fans as a way of supporting our favorite stars, which sounds kinda stupid when I try to look at it objectively. Can we just agree that it really doesn't matter whether the average fan of Rock or Cena is mature or not? I mean to include myself in this, because I recognize that I've been just as guilty as many of you in expressing my opinions regarding many of The Rock's fans.

This feud is just between Rock and Cena. If you think Cena is being cheap with his "breaking kayfabe" remarks, if you think Cena is lame and shoved down your throats, or if you think crazy off-the-wall insults are hilarious, then you'll probably cheer for The Rock. If you think Cena is a good role model, if you think The Rock's insults are repetitive and nonsensical, or if you think that Cena does a better job of cutting The Rock deeply in his promos, then you'll probably cheer for Cena. I personally think it would be better to just leave all of this fan-war nonsense out of it.

This feud has something for both crowds, and in my 15-20 years of watching the wrestling industry grow, I have never seen anything quite like it. A little back-and-forth debate is fun and all, but let's just try to remember that this is a booked feud, so there isn't really a reason to take all of this so personally and attack each other. It's easier to sit back, enjoy the show, hope "your guy" wins, and have friendly debates from time to time.

TL;DR version:

Chill the fuck out, everyone.
good job. I agree with everything you said. The feud has something for everyone and that's why it's awesome.

this is honestly getting close to my favorite feud of all time. Currently, it's nWo vs Sting from fall brawl 1996-starrcade 1997 (or really since hogan came in and took over Sting's spot if you want to be real broad). Let's just hope Rock/Cena ends better than Sting/Hogan.
 
[youtube]vUx0diCJ0SU[/youtube]

Lovely.

Oh wait let me add something, dont want the police to get all mad. :rolleyes:

I think this was the start of it all (the feud) right here tbh. Pretty cool stuff.
 
[youtube]vUx0diCJ0SU[/youtube]

Lovely.

Oh wait let me add something, dont want the police to get all mad. :rolleyes:

I think this was the start of it all (the feud) right here tbh. Pretty cool stuff.

Nope, He was paying Cena back for a interview he did a couple of months before the HOF.
 
Up until now, the feud between John Cena and The Rock has been 99% talk and ruffling of feathers. This Monday he WWE has a chance to up the ante a little bit without needing The Rock and Cena to come to blows. Cena is booked in what will probably be a main event type match against Mark Henry, who is being built up as the biggest threat on Team Laurinaitis for Wrestlemania. Have it be a more or less back and forth match, slightly leaning towards Henry. Towards the end of the match, Cena starts to go Super Cena, gets ready to hit Henry with the AA and then The Rocks music hits. The Rock never comes out, but Cena stays distracted, and Henry catches Cena with the World's Strongest Slam, and gets the pin. This way you set up for a physical confrontation on the final Raw before Wrestlemania, you keep Henry looking like a credible threat, and Cena doesn't look weak.
Questions? Comments? Criticisms? Witticisms?
 

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