**MERGED** John Cena & The Rock: Match fallout, etc.*KEEP IT ALL IN HERE!*

[RJJ]

That's one of the things bugging me about Cena. He isn't selling for the Rock at all. The Rock says all this stuff that should be getting him upset, and he just smiles away and says stuff like 'glad the old Rock is back'. Cena hits Rock hard with a shot (the notes on the wrist), and the Rock looks pissed and gets flustered on the mic. Where's the give and take?

It makes me honestly wonder what's going to happen at WM. Is Cena going to take a People's Elbow, pop right back up and go into a belly laugh? Is he going to sell the Rock's offense? Is he going to pull a Shawn Michaels ala his Hulk Hogan match and start overselling to a ridiculous extreme?

I'm sure some will read this and think I'm going overboard and that of course John Cena will sell for the Rock at WM... but honestly, if he can't be bothered doing it on the mic, then who's to say what he will do come match time?

IMO the guy has a lot he could learn from CM Punk.

Actually that makes Cena look bad.

As far as Cena pulling of an "HBK"(Since he consider himself a loyal soldier), and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised. Vince is known for his massive ego. How fitting it would be for vince, If he could make Rock look like an ass in the main event of the grandest stage of them all, in his hometown. To clear things up, there was some serious tension between Rock and Vince about rock's expiring contract(back in 2004), and it ended up with Rock leaving the company, dropping the name "Rock" and going by his real name. Keep in mind, it was reported that vince was behind all the shit that Cena said about rock 4yrs ago.

I'm really not worried about something like that, cause I'm damn sure Rock would stiff the hell out of him if he tried to clown with him(Wrestling code).

 

[Psykohurricane55]

From what i've read on this board, there alot of Rock fans on this board so no matter what i write negative about him will comes back and blow up in my face because there not way i can compete with the rock's fans.

So let's just look at the fact. Last year the Rock cames back to WWE after 5 years, didn'T show up every weeks and the weeks that he was there, RAw had near 4.0 ratings. Fans wanted to see the rock no matter what. Fast foward to the survivor series build-up. Again the guy shows up, ratings goes slightly up, fans still want to see the rcok. The buyrate was survivor series was a little bit higher then year before but still was a desapointment concidering who was in the main event. FAst foward to 3 weeks ago, The rock comes back to start the build up for the mania feud, his first apparrence since survivor series, he get a 20 minutes overun segment and the ratings went down plus the total ratings was pretty much the same ratings they've had before. Then last week. his history lesson, that i actually loved and though was his best work since he came back, lost viewer's. His confrontation with Cena at the end, lost viewers. They did around the same ratings they always does which i dissapointing because they should be getting better ratings based on The Rock's presence alone. So this week, they did a little bit better. that the overall ratings and i can't wait to see the segment by segment ratings especially since the rock's concert was part of the overun and not the second hour.

All i'm saying is if the rock was so popular with casual fans, the ratings wouldn'T be the same as it always been. The rock concert and cena rap only works when both guys are Heel because you expect somebody to come to take there revenge after. The only difference between the 2 and i agree with people that i shouldn't comment on something i didn'T watch in his entirety but the difference is that at less Cena's rap was keep short and didn'T drag on like the rock's concert.

In the end, i'm still excited about this match because just like the Rock and Hogan match at wrestlemania 18, this is a dream match and will get more buys for wrestlemania this here that's for sure. The build up hasn'T been fantastic and the had i few bumps in the road on both part but the one positive thing that came out of all of this is that it made peoples truly care about Cena again. They might hate him when he show up but every single time, when he done with his promos, there more fans cheering for him and that's a positive. Just look at last week confrontation, fans we're actually starting a Tooth Fairy against The Rock. Since Rock Came back, when did you see anybody moking the rock?

So to conclude, if your a rock fan, i'm o.k. with, you can write whatever on want about what i just wrote, i really don'T care because it's the last post i'm making on this subject. The one thing i wanted out of this build up was John Cena being a more serious Cena, which he turn out to be, and The Rock from last year when he return, which except for the pre taped segment i didn't get, so i'm still waiting for Dwayne ''the Rock'' Johnson to change into the most electrifying man in sport entertainment because i truly didn'T see any of it during the live stuff he did the last 3 weeks.

 

[grantedisme]

Cena's being creative?! Lol Well, let's see. "You left us for 7yrs", "You're here for yourself", "The notes on the wrist"(The more he point that out, the more I believe it's a work), "Your insults are immature"(If you can't outdo someone do something else), "You're phony, dwayne"(It's like when you throw an insult at a little kid and he throws it back at you. Cause if my memory serves me correctly, it was Rock who called Cena a phony first), I guess that sums up Cena's promos for the last couple of weeks. The funny thing is, whenever Rock goes hard on him he goes back to his "kissing ass" mentality(Thier first confrontation in chicago). I mean, last monday, Rock completly destroyed him in that concert, and his response on his twitter was "The old Rock is back!!"?! Really?! That's all you've got?! The guy claimed that he banged your mom, and that's you're response?!


Just because Cena is getting edgier "doesn'T" mean he's being creative. Plus, the "Old Rock" that you been missing was all about the catchphrases, also.

Cena is being more creative than The Rock at this point. You listed 5 points that Cena uses.

The wrist writing was already reported as a shoot. The fact that you continue to doubt that shows that you're willing to accept your own blind denial as evidence over a backstage source. Yes, there is a chance that it's a work, but until any source provides evidence that it is anything other than a quick shoot, you have no basis for your opinion.

Rock's insults are immature. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Many of us said that before Cena did, and it's a relief that someone is finally echoing our sentiments. It is part of Cena's gimmick to do this; Cena didn't change just for this feud. He has been like this since facing CM Punk last year.

I think the "phony" argument is lame from both The Rock and Cena, but for the sake of your misguided argument, Cena technically said it first during an interview several years ago that influenced The Rock's first comeback promo.

Let me add one more major point that Cena has made: "I need to win this for my legacy". That argument single-handedly is better than anything The Rock has said at any point during this feud. Cena passionately explained why he wants and might even need to win this match.

Now, let me give my analysis of the things that Rock has created since he came back.

"You look stupid" - Yes, the epitome of creativity right there. Look, I can just speak for myself here, but if someone told me that when I was in High School, I would have shrugged it off then, so why would I expect a grown man to sell that?

"You remind me of fruity pebbles and kung pow chicken" - ...seriously?

"Why don't you stick stuff up your butt?" - That's a real winner.

"I have sex with way more women than you" - Oh good, now Cena knows that he's more likely to get an STD just by shaking Rock's hand.

"Your male fans are virgins" - I've made enough sarcastic statements in a row, so I'll just call this factually inaccurate.

"You have female genitalia" - Again, I can only speak for myself here, but I don't really care what Cena is packing under his camo shorts, whether he resembles Chyna or Ron Jeremy. If it really matters to you, maybe you're watching the wrong kind of program.

"You would have lost the revolutionary war." - Wait, what?

"I had lots of sex with your mother." - My goodness, I bet Cena can't believe that someone said something about his mother. That must really burn him up.

I'll give you that The Rock has said more (after all, he gets 20 minutes every Monday for this nonsense). Nevertheless, judging by the content you posted about Cena and this, I'd say that Cena is doing a good deal better.

 

[AwesomeRko]

Cena is being more creative than The Rock at this point. You listed 5 points that Cena uses.

The wrist writing was already reported as a shoot. The fact that you continue to doubt that shows that you're willing to accept your own blind denial as evidence over a backstage source. Yes, there is a chance that it's a work, but until any source provides evidence that it is anything other than a quick shoot, you have no basis for your opinion.

Rock's insults are immature. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Many of us said that before Cena did, and it's a relief that someone is finally echoing our sentiments. It is part of Cena's gimmick to do this; Cena didn't change just for this feud. He has been like this since facing CM Punk last year.

I think the "phony" argument is lame from both The Rock and Cena, but for the sake of your misguided argument, Cena technically said it first during an interview several years ago that influenced The Rock's first comeback promo.

Let me add one more major point that Cena has made: "I need to win this for my legacy". That argument single-handedly is better than anything The Rock has said at any point during this feud. Cena passionately explained why he wants and might even need to win this match.

Now, let me give my analysis of the things that Rock has created since he came back.

"You look stupid" - Yes, the epitome of creativity right there. Look, I can just speak for myself here, but if someone told me that when I was in High School, I would have shrugged it off then, so why would I expect a grown man to sell that?

"You remind me of fruity pebbles and kung pow chicken" - ...seriously?

"Why don't you stick stuff up your butt?" - That's a real winner.

"I have sex with way more women than you" - Oh good, now Cena knows that he's more likely to get an STD just by shaking Rock's hand.

"Your male fans are virgins" - I've made enough sarcastic statements in a row, so I'll just call this factually inaccurate.

"You have female genitalia" - Again, I can only speak for myself here, but I don't really care what Cena is packing under his camo shorts, whether he resembles Chyna or Ron Jeremy. If it really matters to you, maybe you're watching the wrong kind of program.

"You would have lost the revolutionary war." - Wait, what?

"I had lots of sex with your mother." - My goodness, I bet Cena can't believe that someone said something about his mother. That must really burn him up.

I'll give you that The Rock has said more (after all, he gets 20 minutes every Monday for this nonsense). Nevertheless, judging by the content you posted about Cena and this, I'd say that Cena is doing a good deal better.

I don't see how Cena statting that he has to win the match for his legacy is being creative, everybody knows thats already the case he was merely stating the obvious, in what was an awful promo incidentally. As for the whole moral high ground issue, Cena's been taking he has been doing that for years and does it to mask the fact thet he can't go toe to toe throwing old-fashioned insults with guys like Rock, which is fine not many can but its hardly original.

Your correct the Rock does throw more direct insults at cena but they are not childish in that they al have meaning, if calling Cena a 'fruity pebble', was just a random insult it wouldn't have taken off the way it did. It's an example of the Rock observing the ridiculous over-bright childlike t-shirts Cena wears and turning it into comedy, far from unoriginal. He has also doen this with his acknoledegement of cena's primary identification with kids, and his whole thuganomics (but really i went to private school thing).

Besides I'm not sure if youve failed to notice that since Rock's return it has actually been lss about the catchphrases and insults and has had a greater degree of earnest, from the heart type promo-work, combined with some more intense stuff. This is an example of Rock being original and deviating slightly from his character traits of years ago in a manner that far eclipses Cena's seemingly ingenious move of talking in a Bostonian 'im a hardcore gangsta', type accent everytime Rock appears then dropping it and going back to business as usual when hes with everyone else.

 

[Huey]

Your correct the Rock does throw more direct insults at cena but they are not childish in that they al have meaning, if calling Cena a 'fruity pebble', was just a random insult it wouldn't have taken off the way it did. It's an example of the Rock observing the ridiculous over-bright childlike t-shirts Cena wears and turning it into comedy, far from unoriginal. He has also doen this with his acknoledegement of cena's primary identification with kids, and his whole thuganomics (but really i went to private school thing).

So you're saying it's not childish to make fun of what John Cena wears or make a joke about sleeping with his mom?

 

[AwesomeRko]

So you're saying it's not childish to make fun of what John Cena wears or make a joke about sleeping with his mom?

I don't think mocking Cena for dressing the way he does is childish no, it was funny because most people lready think the shirts look ridiculous Rock simply took that linked it with something as inane as a breakfast cereal and delivered it with apolmb. I'l stress again if it wasn't funny or didn't have some substance would fans have latched onto it the way they did? Hell Cena was even on the cover of some fruity pebbles cereal boxes, I'm not sure if he still is.

I never implied that all Rock's stuff wasn't childish of course mom jokes are childish but that doesn't mean they still can't be entertaining. I'd personally take childish but relvant, well delivered jokes over captain virtue john cena's moral-high ground chat anyday of the week. In fact one could say its more childish of Cena to basically laugh in Rock's face when he's trying to heat things up and bring some intensity into the fued a la last week.

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

I believe "Hollywood E Rock" already explained this. Cena's been acting as he's above all that "immature" insults that were thrown at him by Rock, instead of trying to beat him in his own game(Well, he tried last night and got destroyed), which was by the way Cena's style when he was a rapper. The only way for Cena to win this verbal battle is by cutting shoot promos. There is no way to keep up with rock(On the mic) without breaking kayfabe, "Doctor of Thuganomics" or not, that simply won't happen. Rock is not only great on the mic, but he's got the whole crowd behind him which makes it harder for me to give Cena(Babyface) rounds.

I said it before and I'll say it again, Cena claims to be a street rapper, well after last night, he should know that he got his ass "Either'd" by The Rock. IMO, That Concert was the best trash talk promo in their fued, so far.

please tell me this is a typo wtf is either'd

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

So you're saying it's not childish to make fun of what John Cena wears or make a joke about sleeping with his mom?

I'm sorry but what about Wrestling promos made you think they were the place to look for sophisticated literary devices to be employed or high brow humor

Honestly, the rocks "childish" insults are more entertaining than any of this other trash they put out besides the Jericho Punk feud. Like Daniel Bryan in a sky box give him a couple years he wont afford those tickers cuttin corny shit like that, him and that dumb bimbo diva.

 

[Huey]

I'm sorry but what about Wrestling promos made you think they were the place to look for sophisticated literary devices to be employed or high brow humor

Honestly, the rocks "childish" insults are more entertaining than any of this other trash they put out besides the Jericho Punk feud. Like Daniel Bryan in a sky box give him a couple years he wont afford those tickers cuttin corny shit like that, him and that dumb bimbo diva.

I didn't say I was looking for sophisticated humor. I was pointing out the irony of someone complaining about Cena's immaturity while defending The Rock's use of mom jokes and the ilk.

Cena fails to deliver intriguing promos most of the time and the rock is a has been nostalgia act. I get that, I don't expect any more from either of them at this point. I just find it funny that the criticisms levied at one guy usually applies to them both; they're two sides of the same coin.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

The Rock has got some knickers in a twist!!! The 42 year old virgin thing has really hurt a lot of folk!

Rock outpops Cena every single week. Rock doesnt get booed, Cena does. Men have stronger voices than the weak little virgins and the kids that why we hear it!

You are clutching at straws here and trying to convince yourself The Rock is wrong. Its a well known fact the majority of Cena fans are women and children. He even admits it himself. Orton and Punk have even called him on it in the past!!!

this is why I think Rock fans are either young or uneducated.

See, rock calling me or whoever a "42 year old virgin" doesn't bother me. Know why? Because I'm 22 and am secure with who I am. I'm not a virgin, I had sex twice today, I don't care who knows and who doesn't. I wore a batman shirt today and jeans that didn't have the faded/ripped look. Why? I don't care.

I'm not clutching (or grasping) at straws. Way to look like a smart, mature human being by citing what characters say.

You bring up the fact that Cena gets booed as a bad thing. We've went over this a million times, he wants people like you to boo him. The audience isn't homogenus (probably spelled wrong but the word I'm looking for basically means "all the same). Thus, no action, unless it's a nostalgia act coming back, is going to get a uniform (same) reaction. Even Rock doesn't get the same reaction from everyone. there were "toothfairy" chants 2 weeks ago (and they had very deep voices, my guess is they were guys in their 30s who took their daughters to see that pile of shit movie).

 

[grantedisme]

I don't see how Cena statting that he has to win the match for his legacy is being creative, everybody knows thats already the case he was merely stating the obvious, in what was an awful promo incidentally. As for the whole moral high ground issue, Cena's been taking he has been doing that for years and does it to mask the fact thet he can't go toe to toe throwing old-fashioned insults with guys like Rock, which is fine not many can but its hardly original.

Your correct the Rock does throw more direct insults at cena but they are not childish in that they al have meaning, if calling Cena a 'fruity pebble', was just a random insult it wouldn't have taken off the way it did. It's an example of the Rock observing the ridiculous over-bright childlike t-shirts Cena wears and turning it into comedy, far from unoriginal. He has also doen this with his acknoledegement of cena's primary identification with kids, and his whole thuganomics (but really i went to private school thing).

Besides I'm not sure if youve failed to notice that since Rock's return it has actually been lss about the catchphrases and insults and has had a greater degree of earnest, from the heart type promo-work, combined with some more intense stuff. This is an example of Rock being original and deviating slightly from his character traits of years ago in a manner that far eclipses Cena's seemingly ingenious move of talking in a Bostonian 'im a hardcore gangsta', type accent everytime Rock appears then dropping it and going back to business as usual when hes with everyone else.

It's creative, because he's creating a new facet to the feud that was mostly "I don't like you" and "let's entertain the fans" before. Also, I think it's the only promo that has actually built the match itself out of everything that both of them have done so far. Before that (and since then), neither of them said anything about why either of them wanted to win. Whether or not you think he "can go toe to toe with The Rock" in an insult-fest is irrelevant, since it's not in his character to do that. It hasn't been in his character to do that for some time now.

The only reason Cena has gone back to his rapper gimmick twice is was: 1) I'm not sure if you remember this, but after Rock came back the first time, fans on twitter and even on these forums were going crazy wanting Cena to revert to insult The Rock; 2) last Monday was billed as a Rock/Rap concert, so Cena was supposed to come out and do that (possibly because Vince thought The Rock could use all the help he could get at this point).

I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone thinks that The Rock hasn't been focusing on insults and catch phrases. The Rock still leans heavily on his catch phrases (and screaming) to get reactions, and if he isn't pandering to fans of the city, practically everything he has said about Cena is an insult. That Rock's insults "have meaning" might give them a modicum of creativity, but it doesn't make them less juvenile. When a kid gets glasses, and another kid calls him "four-eyes", or if I point out that my co-worker looks like a pop tart, it has just as much meaning as what Rock says. That doesn't make it less childish for the mere fact that I'm making fun of someone for the way he looks.

On a final note, there's a reason that I didn't bring up Cena's rapping when I was talking about his points against The Rock. I don't like it as much as his normal character. I think it's been the weakest part of his promos, and I think it's just him going down to The Rock's level, a level with which I don't particularly identify. If he constantly stayed in that character, my interest in this feud would plummet.

I'm sorry but what about Wrestling promos made you think they were the place to look for sophisticated literary devices to be employed or high brow humor

Honestly, the rocks "childish" insults are more entertaining than any of this other trash they put out besides the Jericho Punk feud. Like Daniel Bryan in a sky box give him a couple years he wont afford those tickers cuttin corny shit like that, him and that dumb bimbo diva.

Who asked for sophisticated literary devices? I just don't want to see a feud that is primary built on two guys standing in a ring and screaming, "you look like fruity pebbles", "you look like a roided up whopper", "I had sex with your mother", "your fans are virgins", and other nonsense at each other.

Look, I'm not arguing whether or not people like you (I mean as Rock fans, not offensively) enjoy these types of insults. Most fans of Cena that I've seen posting here recognize and accept that it entertains you, but it would be nice of you to understand that it doesn't appeal to everyone. That's why some of us gravitate to Cena's side of the feud. I personally agree with the "rise above hate" motto. It didn't take putting it on a shirt for me to support that stance, but putting it on a shirt did make me support Cena's character more than I did before.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Rock reminds me of a rapper. rappers say goofy stupid shit that doesn't make sense to anyone with a brain. However, teens and white trash eat that shit up and repeat it. A lot of people like to make fun of rappers and their ******ed metaphors by "translating" them. For example "my whipped dairy dessert drink brings lots of customers to my place of business, many of them men. They suggest that it's better than yours. I certainly agree, it is better than yours. I could train your staff or give you the recipe, but I'd need some form of payment in return". That's the "translation" of the uber ******ed "milkshake" song from back in the day. Want to translate Rock?

Finally I am back in this city. John Cena wears bright colors that remind me of the cereal my child had this morning. Hey John, lol, why don't you put your shirt up your butt in front of my many, many fans. BTW, I have a large penis. John Cena's fans are mostly children, women, and men who aren't promiscuous. John Cena should stick something up his butt. If you smell what I'm cooking.

Now, dress this up with some rhyming, some fast talking, some funny sounding words, drench your shirt in water, and BAM, Rock promo.

 

[RJJ]

please tell me this is a typo wtf is either'd

Well, If you're a hip hop fan, you'd know exactly what I mean by "Either".



ROCK

WILL

NOT

LOSE

Finally I am back in this city. John Cena wears bright colors that remind me of the cereal my child had this morning. Hey John, lol, why don't you put your shirt up your butt in front of my many, many fans. BTW, I have a large penis. John Cena's fans are mostly children, women, and men who aren't promiscuous. John Cena should stick something up his butt. If you smell what I'm cooking.

Now, dress this up with some rhyming, some fast talking, some funny sounding words, drench your shirt in water, and BAM, Rock promo.

Still entertaining in the eyes of the majority. That's what matters, THE MAJORITY.

The funny thing is, you keep whining about Rock repeating himself, but don't you see that you're doing the same thing with this "Education" BS? GROW THE FUCK UP!! It's an entertainment business. If the fans don't like the things he's been doing, he wouldn't have done it in the first place. By your logic, DX, Taker, Hogan, Austin, are all immature and stupid right? DX acting like a bunch of 15yrs old teens, Taker with his stupid ass deadman gimmick, Hogan with all the "hulking up" and eating the vitamins and all that crap, or Austin and his canns of whoop ass and all those cases of beer, they're all stupid right? It's wrestling.

Rock reminds me of a rapper. rappers say goofy stupid shit that doesn't make sense to anyone with a brain. However, teens and white trash eat that shit up and repeat it. A lot of people like to make fun of rappers and their ******ed metaphors by "translating" them. For example "my whipped dairy dessert drink brings lots of customers to my place of business, many of them men. They suggest that it's better than yours. I certainly agree, it is better than yours. I could train your staff or give you the recipe, but I'd need some form of payment in return". That's the "translation" of the uber ******ed "milkshake" song from back in the day. Want to translate Rock?

Now you wanna bash rappers?!

Oh, and by the way, as an "Educated" individual you should know that some people might be offended by you saying "White Trash"(Even though I'm not white), a word you've been using loosely in this forum.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

From what i've read on this board, there alot of Rock fans on this board so no matter what i write negative about him will comes back and blow up in my face because there not way i can compete with the rock's fans.

No, that's simply not true. Saying you hated something you admit you didn't even watch is a surefire way to have it blow up in your face.

So let's just look at the fact. Last year the Rock cames back to WWE after 5 years, didn'T show up every weeks and the weeks that he was there, RAw had near 4.0 ratings. Fans wanted to see the rock no matter what. Fast foward to the survivor series build-up. Again the guy shows up, ratings goes slightly up, fans still want to see the rcok. The buyrate was survivor series was a little bit higher then year before but still was a desapointment concidering who was in the main event. FAst foward to 3 weeks ago, The rock comes back to start the build up for the mania feud, his first apparrence since survivor series, he get a 20 minutes overun segment and the ratings went down plus the total ratings was pretty much the same ratings they've had before. Then last week. his history lesson, that i actually loved and though was his best work since he came back, lost viewer's. His confrontation with Cena at the end, lost viewers. They did around the same ratings they always does which i dissapointing because they should be getting better ratings based on The Rock's presence alone. So this week, they did a little bit better. that the overall ratings and i can't wait to see the segment by segment ratings especially since the rock's concert was part of the overun and not the second hour.

You seem to be putting a lot of the WWE's ratings issues squarely on the shoulders of the Rock? Isn't anyone else to blame for that, or are you a guy that just assumes that the Rock should magically overcome years of sub standard TV programming by being involved in a verbal war that at this point, is really just rehashing the same points (on both sides) week after week because neither of these guys are allowed to have any physical contact with each other right now?

But your assertations about last week and how the Rock was losing viewers? His first history lesson GAINED about 340k viewers. About 400k viewers were lost when Cena did his empty arena segment. The numbers fluctuated the remainder of the night before the final confrontation between the two gained about 750k viewers.

http://www.yardbarker.com/wwe/artic...raw_supershow_3512_ratings_breakdown/10260295

If anything, the Rock brought viewers in on March 5, Cena lost them all, and the rest of the show had a hard time regaining them until both Rock and Cena came out at the end for a big number.

All i'm saying is if the rock was so popular with casual fans, the ratings wouldn'T be the same as it always been. The rock concert and cena rap only works when both guys are Heel because you expect somebody to come to take there revenge after. The only difference between the 2 and i agree with people that i shouldn't comment on something i didn'T watch in his entirety but the difference is that at less Cena's rap was keep short and didn'T drag on like the rock's concert.

I'll agree the overall ratings haven't improved, but it's pretty simplistic to put that all on any one individual. Some people may be getting tired of the Rock's jokes and tuning out. Others might be getting sick of Cena's no-selling everything the Rock's said and tuning out. Others might be tired of the Johnny Ace/Teddy Long feud and tuning out. Others might not want to hear the long, drawn out promo's between Triple H, HBK and Undertaker and tuning out. Others might have been tired of CM Punk being dismissive towards Jericho up until this last RAW and tuning out.

You see what I'm saying? On this years build to the biggest WrestleMania of all time, there's actually been a lot of stuff going on that could make anyone say "you know, I don't need to watch any of this" and tune out. You absolutely cannot blame the overall ratings on any one person.

As for the run times of Cena's rap and the Rock concert? They actually made perfect sense. There was no way Cena could keep that rap going any longer than he did, whereas what the Rock was doing was honestly something he could have kept going for as long as he wanted (he just kept playing the same song and adding verses, and the crowd was eating it up the entire time). If they had Rock coming out as the angry rapper, you can bet that his segment would have been a lot shorter too.

In the end, i'm still excited about this match because just like the Rock and Hogan match at wrestlemania 18, this is a dream match and will get more buys for wrestlemania this here that's for sure. The build up hasn'T been fantastic and the had i few bumps in the road on both part but the one positive thing that came out of all of this is that it made peoples truly care about Cena again. They might hate him when he show up but every single time, when he done with his promos, there more fans cheering for him and that's a positive. Just look at last week confrontation, fans we're actually starting a Tooth Fairy against The Rock. Since Rock Came back, when did you see anybody moking the rock?

I agree, and I've made that point myself in this very thread. They have been doing what they can to pull in some fan support for Cena, and it absolutely has been working. To me, that's absolutely why Cena was booked to be the stronger one on the mic in the beginning, and why the Rock was selling how much Cena had gotten to him by being flustered on the mic during his first appearance/arm-gate. If you don't believe the Rock was selling that, you can go on Youtube and see that immediately after RAW went off the air, he reverted from being flustered and tongue tied to being his normal self immediately.

This was all necessary since they wanted to go with the face vs face dynamic (which is always a hard sell), and one of those faces happens to be hated by a large portion of their audience. It has at times made for some awkward storytelling though.

So to conclude, if your a rock fan, i'm o.k. with, you can write whatever on want about what i just wrote, i really don'T care because it's the last post i'm making on this subject. The one thing i wanted out of this build up was John Cena being a more serious Cena, which he turn out to be, and The Rock from last year when he return, which except for the pre taped segment i didn't get, so i'm still waiting for Dwayne ''the Rock'' Johnson to change into the most electrifying man in sport entertainment because i truly didn'T see any of it during the live stuff he did the last 3 weeks.

Oddly enough, you've kind of explained why you haven't seen that 'most electrifyig man in all of entertainment' in your eyes already... and it has had to do with the way the match has been built. Putting Cena over on the mic by booking him to be stronger at the top necessitated having a weaker Rock on the mic. Putting over Cena's serious character has meant the Rock needs to give him fodder for that character, like with the juvenielle jokes. Pulling in more fans for Cena has meant that the Rock has needed to allienate some fans.

I personally would have booked this match a lot differently (and used a lot more of the lockerroom, because they've missed a golden chance to use the Rock to put a lot of people over), but for the dynamic they decided to go with for it, they haven't done a bad job at all.

 

[AwesomeRko]

It's creative, because he's creating a new facet to the feud that was mostly "I don't like you" and "let's entertain the fans" before. Also, I think it's the only promo that has actually built the match itself out of everything that both of them have done so far. Before that (and since then), neither of them said anything about why either of them wanted to win. Whether or not you think he "can go toe to toe with The Rock" in an insult-fest is irrelevant, since it's not in his character to do that. It hasn't been in his character to do that for some time now.

The only reason Cena has gone back to his rapper gimmick twice is was: 1) I'm not sure if you remember this, but after Rock came back the first time, fans on twitter and even on these forums were going crazy wanting Cena to revert to insult The Rock; 2) last Monday was billed as a Rock/Rap concert, so Cena was supposed to come out and do that (possibly because Vince thought The Rock could use all the help he could get at this point).

I'm sorry, but I don't think anyone thinks that The Rock hasn't been focusing on insults and catch phrases. The Rock still leans heavily on his catch phrases (and screaming) to get reactions, and if he isn't pandering to fans of the city, practically everything he has said about Cena is an insult. That Rock's insults "have meaning" might give them a modicum of creativity, but it doesn't make them less juvenile. When a kid gets glasses, and another kid calls him "four-eyes", or if I point out that my co-worker looks like a pop tart, it has just as much meaning as what Rock says. That doesn't make it less childish for the mere fact that I'm making fun of someone for the way he looks.

On a final note, there's a reason that I didn't bring up Cena's rapping when I was talking about his points against The Rock. I don't like it as much as his normal character. I think it's been the weakest part of his promos, and I think it's just him going down to The Rock's level, a level with which I don't particularly identify. If he constantly stayed in that character, my interest in this feud would plummet.




Who asked for sophisticated literary devices? I just don't want to see a feud that is primary built on two guys standing in a ring and screaming, "you look like fruity pebbles", "you look like a roided up whopper", "I had sex with your mother", "your fans are virgins", and other nonsense at each other.

Look, I'm not arguing whether or not people like you (I mean as Rock fans, not offensively) enjoy these types of insults. Most fans of Cena that I've seen posting here recognize and accept that it entertains you, but it would be nice of you to understand that it doesn't appeal to everyone. That's why some of us gravitate to Cena's side of the feud. I personally agree with the "rise above hate" motto. It didn't take putting it on a shirt for me to support that stance, but putting it on a shirt did make me support Cena's character more than I did before.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree you are probably in the minority, if you think cena's character is still interesting as the paragon of virtue who can do no wrong. The majority are sick of it hence the negative reaction he gets in most places. In fact it is probably reverting back to the edgy, thuganomics gimmick which has won him back the respect of many fans, a testament to how stale he has become over the past few years. I also believe, like many that him constantly repeating that Rock isn't there eevry week, he has sold out, become hollywood etc has been absolutely done to death and is frankly boring. You may say Rock's insults and catchphrases have been running on a consistent theme but at least many including the live crowd seem to find them funny and entertaining.

While yes, many of the Rock's insults may be juvenile (although I still maintain that some are not) the point is that they entertain, whip the crowd into a frenzy and are well and confidently delivered. Nobody works a crowd like the Rock can, it generates an atmosphere that in my book makes the product more entertaining to watch, even in places where the crowd hasn't been particularly loud like Oklahoma on Monday for example. As for Cena's legacy speech being the first either have said about their actual motives, Rock has stated that he is back for the fans who are sick of Cena being shoved down their throats. He has also (in kayfabe) stated his personal problems with Cena deriving from cena speaking of him negatively in in interviews before his return, hence Rock severely dislikes him.

I feel I actually have to stress I'm not a major Cena hater, I can recognise that he certainly has talent, he couldn't have carried the company for as long as he did otherwise. I just believe that he is stale and that much of his work against the Rock on the mic, has been pretty overrated his initial rap promo aside. Which I suppose illustrates that we have completely different beliefs on what makes a good promo, which is kind of the point in the whole fued i suppose it was intended to polarise opinion.

 

[AwesomeRko]

this is why I think Rock fans are either young or uneducated.

See, rock calling me or whoever a "42 year old virgin" doesn't bother me. Know why? Because I'm 22 and am secure with who I am. I'm not a virgin, I had sex twice today, I don't care who knows and who doesn't. I wore a batman shirt today and jeans that didn't have the faded/ripped look. Why? I don't care.

I'm not clutching (or grasping) at straws. Way to look like a smart, mature human being by citing what characters say.

You are being pretty patronising here as well as completely factually inaccurate, so what you are saying is that the vast majority of older male fans who it is widely acknowledged support the Rock are uneducated?! If it wasn't the case that cena had few male fans of a decent age why would everyone from Rock to Punk to Orton bring it up, why would the 'lets go cena', chants be so high pitched when compared with the 'cena sucks'? I think its pretty obvious that most older guys are just plain sick of John Cena.

Yes, you are correct some of Rock's humour is pretty juvenile but so is a lot of the stuff we see in bigtime comedic blockbusters nowadays, stuff like Anchorman, Old School, the Hangover, does that mean older guys aren't allowed to like them either? You state that people who are uneducated relate to the Rock, when in fact any intelligent fan can pretty much cut through cena's whole philosophy in this fued fairly easily. Rock left, I'm still here, he's a sell-out and insult to wrestling, yeah John so much of an insult that you probably begged Vince to let you have the match, in your role as a full-time superstar who is paid to be there every week.

In light of the high brow, intellectually inspiring take you have on WWE television I'm guessing for you the highlight of the attitude era was the highly respectable Right to Censor and those nasty Stone Cold, Rock and Foley characters were just cretins who had no place on your television right? ...

 

[grantedisme]

Well we will just have to agree to disagree you are probably in the minority, if you think cena's character is still interesting as the paragon of virtue who can do no wrong. The majority are sick of it hence the negative reaction he gets in most places. In fact it is probably reverting back to the edgy, thuganomics gimmick which has won him back the respect of many fans, a testament to how stale he has become over the past few years. I also believe, like many that him constantly repeating that Rock isn't there eevry week, he has sold out, become hollywood etc has been absolutely done to death and is frankly boring. You may say Rock's insults and catchphrases have been running on a consistent theme but at least many including the live crowd seem to find them funny and entertaining.

While yes, many of the Rock's insults may be juvenile (although I still maintain that some are not) the point is that they entertain, whip the crowd into a frenzy and are well and confidently delivered. Nobody works a crowd like the Rock can, it generates an atmosphere that in my book makes the product more entertaining to watch, even in places where the crowd hasn't been particularly loud like Oklahoma on Monday for example. As for Cena's legacy speech being the first either have said about their actual motives, Rock has stated that he is back for the fans who are sick of Cena being shoved down their throats. He has also (in kayfabe) stated his personal problems with Cena deriving from cena speaking of him negatively in in interviews before his return, hence Rock severely dislikes him.

I feel I actually have to stress I'm not a major Cena hater, I can recognise that he certainly has talent, he couldn't have carried the company for as long as he did otherwise. I just believe that he is stale and that much of his work against the Rock on the mic, has been pretty overrated his initial rap promo aside. Which I suppose illustrates that we have completely different beliefs on what makes a good promo, which is kind of the point in the whole fued i suppose it was intended to polarise opinion.

Whether my opinion is popular or not doesn't matter as far as my point goes, but since you brought it up, the only measurable scale of popularity is sales. Cena has sold more merchandise than anyone else in the business for years. Clearly, people aren't as tired of his character as you seem to suggest, at least not the majority. Booing Cena has become a fad at this point, and the fact that people choose to boo rather than remaining silent shows that they still care about the character in one way or another.

If Jericho's return told us anything, it's that the crowd will cheer ANYTHING that a long-gone returning star does. He is still having some trouble being boo'd when he comes out to the ring. That Rock gets a huge reaction is no surprise to anyone, since he has a fantastic history behind him. Due to that, however, it a very weak indication of how effective his promos are on their own, which is one reason that I would place more value on any one thought-out post on here (regardless of whether I agree with it or not) than 20 live crowds.

The Rock still hasn't given a reason for wanting to win this match. Him thinking that Cena has "been shoved down our throats" is a reason that he dislikes Cena, which at best translates to a reason for The Rock wanting to beat Cena up. That doesn't mean that he has any desire to actually win the match, though.

I agree with everything you said in your last paragraph, though. We just have a fundamental difference in what we value as far as promo works, and that does indeed make this feud more amazing. Well stated.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I cannot see how anyone can say that Rock did not win the promo war this week. Sure he slipped, a couple of times but that was bound to happen with a twenty minute promo.

I can understand how Cena's rapping may appear to be superior particularily because Cena has not done it for a while but his lines weren't all that good. I think that Cena also missed a trick here. He should have said that "Cleveland streamers" line earlier to wake up the crowd. The crowd was dead for the first two lines which also included a dig at Lebron James, which I assume is quite a big deal there. In Cena's defense, he did not flub up like the Rock( hard to do that in under three minutes). But seriously, the boobies line was gold.

The Rock, however, stole the show. He got the crowd pumping by kissing up to them early on and the crowd remained energetic for the entire concert. This was the kind of thing, both Cena's rapping and Rock's concert, that was always going to go to the man with the better sophomoric humor and we know that no one beats the Rock there. But I did think that Rock raised a very valid point of Cena selling out on the rapper gimmick, for those of you to whom the truth appeals more. Anyhow, The Rock had better jokes. The best line was the one about Eve and I also liked the Eminen wannabe and the 42 year old virgin lines. Yes, it's childish but it was also funny.

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

Well, If you're a hip hop fan, you'd know exactly what I mean by "Either".



ROCK

WILL

NOT

LOSE

I just wanted to make sure you are as dumb as you sound

It's ether... and I forgot more about hip-hop than you will even know, now polish my boots bitch

I give u that swollen ether

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

Rock reminds me of a rapper. rappers say goofy stupid shit that doesn't make sense to anyone with a brain. However, teens and white trash eat that shit up and repeat it. A lot of people like to make fun of rappers and their ******ed metaphors by "translating" them. For example "my whipped dairy dessert drink brings lots of customers to my place of business, many of them men. They suggest that it's better than yours. I certainly agree, it is better than yours. I could train your staff or give you the recipe, but I'd need some form of payment in return". That's the "translation" of the uber ******ed "milkshake" song from back in the day. Want to translate Rock?

Finally I am back in this city. John Cena wears bright colors that remind me of the cereal my child had this morning. Hey John, lol, why don't you put your shirt up your butt in front of my many, many fans. BTW, I have a large penis. John Cena's fans are mostly children, women, and men who aren't promiscuous. John Cena should stick something up his butt. If you smell what I'm cooking.

Now, dress this up with some rhyming, some fast talking, some funny sounding words, drench your shirt in water, and BAM, Rock promo.

Shut the fuck up you are an idiot...

I wish their was a way I could reach through this computer and smack your ******ed racist ass and whatever mother-sister and daddy-brother spawned u...

Just because it goes over your head don't mean we all are mental midgets like you...

the song u reference isn't even a hip-hop song, but I'm guessing you don't know much about music of any kind that isn't some fuckin Bruce Springstein or other Klan anthems...

Honestly man I'm tellin u shut the fuck up... I'm way smarter than you and I will clown u personally and every point I see u make on here

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

Cena is being more creative than The Rock at this point. You listed 5 points that Cena uses.

The wrist writing was already reported as a shoot. The fact that you continue to doubt that shows that you're willing to accept your own blind denial as evidence over a backstage source. Yes, there is a chance that it's a work, but until any source provides evidence that it is anything other than a quick shoot, you have no basis for your opinion.

Rock's insults are immature. I don't see how anyone can dispute that. Many of us said that before Cena did, and it's a relief that someone is finally echoing our sentiments. It is part of Cena's gimmick to do this; Cena didn't change just for this feud. He has been like this since facing CM Punk last year.

I think the "phony" argument is lame from both The Rock and Cena, but for the sake of your misguided argument, Cena technically said it first during an interview several years ago that influenced The Rock's first comeback promo.

Let me add one more major point that Cena has made: "I need to win this for my legacy". That argument single-handedly is better than anything The Rock has said at any point during this feud. Cena passionately explained why he wants and might even need to win this match.

Now, let me give my analysis of the things that Rock has created since he came back.

"You look stupid" - Yes, the epitome of creativity right there. Look, I can just speak for myself here, but if someone told me that when I was in High School, I would have shrugged it off then, so why would I expect a grown man to sell that?

"You remind me of fruity pebbles and kung pow chicken" - ...seriously?

"Why don't you stick stuff up your butt?" - That's a real winner.

"I have sex with way more women than you" - Oh good, now Cena knows that he's more likely to get an STD just by shaking Rock's hand.

"Your male fans are virgins" - I've made enough sarcastic statements in a row, so I'll just call this factually inaccurate.

"You have female genitalia" - Again, I can only speak for myself here, but I don't really care what Cena is packing under his camo shorts, whether he resembles Chyna or Ron Jeremy. If it really matters to you, maybe you're watching the wrong kind of program.

"You would have lost the revolutionary war." - Wait, what?

"I had lots of sex with your mother." - My goodness, I bet Cena can't believe that someone said something about his mother. That must really burn him up.

I'll give you that The Rock has said more (after all, he gets 20 minutes every Monday for this nonsense). Nevertheless, judging by the content you posted about Cena and this, I'd say that Cena is doing a good deal better.

Really a backstage source said it was a shoot

I'm sorry but how fucking old are you... I'm pretty sure the company would love for you to think that was a shoot. That doesn't make it certain one way or another lol if u wanna buy into this shit have fun. Would be cool if it was real, but again, wrestling is fake.

 

[Brahma_Bull9]

Whether my opinion is popular or not doesn't matter as far as my point goes, but since you brought it up, the only measurable scale of popularity is sales. Cena has sold more merchandise than anyone else in the business for years. Clearly, people aren't as tired of his character as you seem to suggest, at least not the majority. Booing Cena has become a fad at this point, and the fact that people choose to boo rather than remaining silent shows that they still care about the character in one way or another.

If Jericho's return told us anything, it's that the crowd will cheer ANYTHING that a long-gone returning star does. He is still having some trouble being boo'd when he comes out to the ring. That Rock gets a huge reaction is no surprise to anyone, since he has a fantastic history behind him. Due to that, however, it a very weak indication of how effective his promos are on their own, which is one reason that I would place more value on any one thought-out post on here (regardless of whether I agree with it or not) than 20 live crowds.

The Rock still hasn't given a reason for wanting to win this match. Him thinking that Cena has "been shoved down our throats" is a reason that he dislikes Cena, which at best translates to a reason for The Rock wanting to beat Cena up. That doesn't mean that he has any desire to actually win the match, though.

I agree with everything you said in your last paragraph, though. We just have a fundamental difference in what we value as far as promo works, and that does indeed make this feud more amazing. Well stated.

wow man what is life like in your moms basement, this post is ridiculous...

All Rock has proven is he wants to beat Cena up, not win the match....

SO what maybe that is the route decide to go... u don't win a match without beating up someone...

They go hand in hand except for someone who wants to contort reality to match up with their opinion.

You're a hater we get it... just don't start twisting shit around to make it seem as if it has any basis in anything credible. You just don't like the Rock, just say it and that's it

U don't need to come up with this preposterous shit to make it seem like you are right or your shit is grounded in any other aspect of reality besides the fact you don't prefer rock because u don't like his sense of humor lol... I love it because the usual thing was he can't wrestle, y'all can't do that because all the sudden the IWCC and purists are Cena fans ahahah yall are jokes.

 

[Steve0904]

wow man what is life like in your moms basement, this post is ridiculous...

All Rock has proven is he wants to beat Cena up, not win the match....

SO what maybe that is the route decide to go... u don't win a match without beating up someone...

They go hand in hand except for someone who wants to contort reality to match up with their opinion.

You're a hater we get it... just don't start twisting shit around to make it seem as if it has any basis in anything credible. You just don't like the Rock, just say it and that's it

U don't need to come up with this preposterous shit to make it seem like you are right or your shit is grounded in any other aspect of reality besides the fact you don't prefer rock because u don't like his sense of humor lol... I love it because the usual thing was he can't wrestle, y'all can't do that because all the sudden the IWCC and purists are Cena fans ahahah yall are jokes.

Sorry to tell you, but your post is RIDICULOUS. I didn't see anything wrong with what grantedisme said. You may not agree with it, but it doesn't mean the post is ridiculous. You're a Rock fan as judged by your username, but you're not admitting it so you can't go calling him out on being a "hater." If anything I'd say you're more biased than he is judging by your post. What made you think he hates The Rock? Because he has made arguments in favour of Cena? I'm on "Team Cena" for this feud too, but I like The Rock.

You also assumed that he lives in his mom's basement, while I'm more inclined to believe that you do simply because his post was articulate, meanwhile "u" spelled "you" wrong constantly.

EDIT: Sorry if I got your gender wrong grantedisme. I figured doing an edit was the easier way than going back over my post and doing the he/she him/her thing.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Well, If you're a hip hop fan, you'd know exactly what I mean by "Either".



ROCK

WILL

NOT

LOSE







Still entertaining in the eyes of the majority. That's what matters, THE MAJORITY.

The funny thing is, you keep whining about Rock repeating himself, but don't you see that you're doing the same thing with this "Education" BS? GROW THE FUCK UP!! It's an entertainment business. If the fans don't like the things he's been doing, he wouldn't have done it in the first place. By your logic, DX, Taker, Hogan, Austin, are all immature and stupid right? DX acting like a bunch of 15yrs old teens, Taker with his stupid ass deadman gimmick, Hogan with all the "hulking up" and eating the vitamins and all that crap, or Austin and his canns of whoop ass and all those cases of beer, they're all stupid right? It's wrestling.








Now you wanna bash rappers?!

Oh, and by the way, as an "Educated" individual you should know that some people might be offended by you saying "White Trash"(Even though I'm not white), a word you've been using loosely in this forum.

I don't care if someone is offended by "white trash". I grew up in central rural missouri and now live in the ozarks. There is a high white trash population here. White trash are basically irresponsible pieces of shit who act like teenagers when they are 30 and have 3 kids they should be taking care of. It's not just white people or just poor people. Being or not being white trash is a choice. You can choose to try to get a job, to not buy a mustang while you live in a shitty apartment, to not waste your paycheck on boos and affliction shirts, you can choose to take care of your kids. You can choose to act like a responsible human being.


How does me bashing rappers at all mean that I can't side with Cena on this part? Cena's wigger character was a heel to me. I didn't like it. "TWJC" means "the white john cena" as in "cena doesn't think he's white".

Yes, most of those characters appeal to immature people, sorry. The difference is that that's ALL Rock does. Under it all, Stone Cold was a representative of every blue collar worker. Yea, it entertains the majority and that's fine. In fact, I've said that many times on here. I can rationalize what I see and can pretty much interpret what's going on. I was just explaining why Rock doesn't appeal to me and it seems to be why he doesn't appeal to most non-Rock fans. It also appears that the Cena fans (on here) are more "Cena appreciators" while Rock fans are diehard Rock marks who just go straight into 'GREATEST MIC WORKER EVAAAAA".

 

[RJJ]

An enteresting tweet by The Rock on breaking kayfabe:




Rick Rude:
@TheRock you're keeping kayfabe and Cena isn't, and you're still owning him. Keep bringing it to that #KungPowBitch!



The Rock:
"Breaking kayfabe" is easy, cheap and never entertaining. Boys who are desperate do it all the time.





I've been saying the same thing ever since that shoot promo by Punk. Breaking kayfabe is like an unfair advantage, it's like fighting dirty, and a cheap way to look good on the mic. Bret Hart wasn't really that good on the mic, but those shoot promos he had with michaels in 1997 made alot of people believe other wise. HBK is another example. Hey don't get me wrong, he was good, but breaking the forth wall took him from good to great. HHH was also known for breaking kayfabe when ever he gets owned on the mic, basically because he doesn't have the ability to respond while staying on character. LOL I X-Pac shoot promo on WCW(When he made his return to WWF in 1998) is arguably one of the highlights of the attitude era, does that make him a great mic worker?

Cena's been using the same dirty tactic in this fued, cause he pretty much knows that this is the only way to go toe to toe with Rock(Verbally) without getting completely outclassed.