*Merged* Everything Rock/Cena! Keep All Discussion In Here!!

[TWJC: The Beginning]

what I meant by that was it's the same. Just look at Hulkamania and Cenation from a landscape of the business standpoint, not from an overall stand point. Hulkamania was huge. Beyond huge. It was other worldly. It might never be topped in sports entertainment history. But on the flip side of that coin, Cenation is the biggest thing in wrestling now, not only the WWE. No matter if you hate it or you love it, there's no denying that Cenation is huge by today's standards. If you take a side by side look at the audience of today, and the audience of Hogan's time, the amount of merch they move is very similar. Hogan was the face of the WWE in his era, guys like Rock were the face of the WWE in the attitude era, but in the PG-era, Cenation is unmatched. Even his reactions, however mixed they might be, are huge. Cena gets people talking, arguing or otherwise. And that, my friend, is good for business.

Yeah, I feel like if Cena was around during the time of Rock, Stone Cold and those guys in their prime, he'd be in fueds with guys like Al Snow and D-Lo Brown, instead of the main event but in todays WWE, he is what he is. The face. You just have to realize that the situation is totally different now. The main event picture is John Cena, Randy Orton, Christian, CM Punk and Miz. That's nowhere near the level that it used to be. But he's still the engine of this vehicle. As was Hogan. As was Rock. He's just not as good of an engine as the others. It's like having a V8 compared to a V6, one will pull more and last longer, but the other will still give you some quality, just better off for a smaller car and less work.

This is so incredibly stupid. You DO realize Cena was massively over in 2003 with a more edgy character. You are going through this thought process thinking that Cena would be the same character. He wouldn't, he wouldn't be PG Cena in the tude era, that's just dumb. He'd have the same work ethic and the same ability to read the people and work them (both sides).

Ask yourself this though, if the Rock could cuss and be vulgar would HE still be over? Hmmm, Rocky Maivia kinda sucked and that was Rock trying to sell a PG character. What's the first thing you think of when you think of Austin? Middle fingers, beer, and cussing. So yea, none of that for Austin.

Fact is people who shit on Cena are stupid. Performing in the attitude era was basically without restrictions, so no shit it's going to be more entertaining. Guys can do what they want and really express themselves. Working in the PG era is like putting a straight jacket and wrapping their mouth in duct tape. However, you can't complain that Vince has gone towards PG. The Tude era fans left because they got old, so now Vince has to build a new foundation. Not only that but after Benoit gave the media all kinds of ammo to murder the brand with, he had to tone it down.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

[YOUTUBE]K-8ARolUybU[/YOUTUBE]​

Mr Johnson could conceivably be referencing his match with Mark Henry at the 1998 Judgement Day PPV at the Rosemount Horizon when the Rock (as opposed to Rocky Maivia) first turned face. The Rosemount Horizon is now known as the AllState Arena.

[YOUTUBE]bGwaBF_kXAg[/YOUTUBE]​

Both John Cena and CM Punk fired barbs at the Great One last Monday night so I ask you, my fellow WrestleZone brethren, the following questions:

1) Do you believe that Dwayne may appear at MitB?

2) If he does, what do you think his input will be?

3) (Again, if he does appear,) what will the fallout from this be in the grand scheme of WM28?

 

[1TheGreatOne1]

Cena can't say anything back because he's still a stupid Face and has to pander to the kiddies and women. The fact is Rock owned him. Cena is dumbfounded and can't come up with anything else, saying "The Rock is not here and I am" is total CRAP! Rock explained it all in his 11 minute video;- Cena clearly hasn't watched it. And he needs to get off Twitter and make a statement because you can't defend yourself on a social media site. Shame Cena lost his edge, i know if this were in 2003-2004 then he would rip Rock a new one. Cena clearly has lost his mic skills.

 

[RJJ]

The Rock did what most other WWE superstars wish they could have done. Look at all of the guys who has been in movies and tv, from Hulk Hogan, to Stone Cold, Kane, Big Show, Triple H, every big name... majority of them bombed and they ended up not seeing anymore film opportunites. The Rock just showed how smart of a business man he is and how multitalented he really is. He took a character, The Rock, who's drive on the success road would have ultimately ended up as "One of the best WWE superstars ever" and his body would have been beat to hell, and turned that into Dwayne Johnson, "A WWE hall of famer(it's a given)/mega movie star" known around the world and not just in the WWE world. He has shown that he can play many different roles. In the beginning of his career, he played ass kicking men who fought with wrestling moves. Scorpion Kings, bounty hunters, ex soldiers or whatever. Now he plays drivers, fairies, killers, shooters, cops, on top of all of that other stuff. Even the person who talks about it the most, John Cena, is trying to follow in Rock's footsteps. But he couldn't, why? because his movies sucked so hard that no one outside of porn and the WWE would offer him a movie role.

John Cena wants to be The Rock. Look at the comparisons, they both came in with one gimmick, changed to another to try to better adjust with the era and the fans, then kissed so much ass that their lips turned shit-green. The eventual heel turn later (which many people are clamouring to happen for Cena) and you're in the same damn boat. Do some movies and then leave, come back, be hated for a while, then be loved more than ever. That's why The Rock, at the height of his career, made a smart business move and went to hollywood. he then came back and people pissed they damn pants out of excitement.

As far as Cena busting his ass for the company, I think he has more to gain from it than the WWE. Cena in himself is possibly bigger than the WWE without him. He's a brand now. Just like The Rock is a brand. Rey Mysterio is a brand. These brands come from the WWE, but aren't tied only to that company. Only dumb, non business savvy guys wouldn't try to benefit from it. Like Punk said, the wheels are gonna keep moving with or without them, so why not expand your own brand? And if Cena gets hurt and can't wrestle, what will he do? Act? Oh wait, he can't. But Dwayne Johnson can land a movie role.

People have to just learn that Cena is The Rock of this era, just with less skills, and less business smarts. You can love him, or hate him, but he's following in the same footsteps. Just like Hogan before them, the list goes on forever.

I don't know about cena, but saying that rock kissed ass is stupid. He worked so hard to get that spot, he pad his dues, he proved that he can hang with the best of them, from austin to taker. Vince didn't take him seriousl when he gave him the belt the 1st time, but after his match with asutin at mania he proved not only to vince but to all those fans who were chanting rocky sucks, that he's as good as ausin, and just like that, they start cheering him to a point that he had no choice but to turn face again. And even before that, his ladder match with HHH at SS 1998. IMO, he earned everyone's respect after this match, the whole MSG arena were chanting the supposedly number 1 heel's name(Rocky), that match made him without a doubt.

So saying that he kissed ass based on what CM punk said is really stupid(The only guy that said rock kissed ass). If there is anyone who kissed ass to a point that "his lips turned shit-green" it's HHH.

 

[[cL]]

what I meant by that was it's the same. Just look at Hulkamania and Cenation from a landscape of the business standpoint, not from an overall stand point. Hulkamania was huge. Beyond huge. It was other worldly. It might never be topped in sports entertainment history. But on the flip side of that coin, Cenation is the biggest thing in wrestling now, not only the WWE. No matter if you hate it or you love it, there's no denying that Cenation is huge by today's standards. If you take a side by side look at the audience of today, and the audience of Hogan's time, the amount of merch they move is very similar. Hogan was the face of the WWE in his era, guys like Rock were the face of the WWE in the attitude era, but in the PG-era, Cenation is unmatched. Even his reactions, however mixed they might be, are huge. Cena gets people talking, arguing or otherwise. And that, my friend, is good for business.

Yeah, I feel like if Cena was around during the time of Rock, Stone Cold and those guys in their prime, he'd be in fueds with guys like Al Snow and D-Lo Brown, instead of the main event but in todays WWE, he is what he is. The face. You just have to realize that the situation is totally different now. The main event picture is John Cena, Randy Orton, Christian, CM Punk and Miz. That's nowhere near the level that it used to be. But he's still the engine of this vehicle. As was Hogan. As was Rock. He's just not as good of an engine as the others. It's like having a V8 compared to a V6, one will pull more and last longer, but the other will still give you some quality, just better off for a smaller car and less work.

I understand what you're saying and I think we're agreed on one thing for sure. All three are what made the engine run at their time. In the golden age with Hogan they were running a HUGE jumbo jet engine. In the attitude era with the Rock and SCSA they were running a Concord engine...and now with this PG era and Cena, their still running an engine...the engine just kinda sucks. (be honest, the PG era kinda sucks.)
I think Vince is trying to recreate hulkamania in this PG era with Cena. But I don't think he's getting the same spark he got with Hogan. Hogan was a once in a lifetime deal that will never be able to be duplicated. The thing is, Cena, knows this. Cena knows what Vince is trying to do, and all of this Hustle, Loyalty, Respect (train, eat your vitamins, say your prayers) is failed attempt at trying to make him THAT guy. Well...not failed because he sells a crap load of merch and is making the company millions. SO not failed in that aspect.
Well...not failed at all actually. Vince is getting exactly what he wants out of Cena. I guess the real question is, is Cena getting what HE wants out of the business.
I guess you get in the business to become whatever they want you to become and do whatever it is your supposed to whether they want you to be a heel or face ;win or lose. But in the WWE the goals are slightly different. I think that people who love the business stay in the business because they love it. But the WWE isn't considered the wrestling business anymore. And to be honest if you ask Vince to be candid I think he'll say that it hasn't been the business of wrestling for a long time. That being the case I think people like the Rock, love the business and stayed in it as long as he could and other opportunities found him and he walked away. Vince created opportunities like what the Rock got by creating WWE Films.... Most, if not all of those movies sucked, but the wrestlers involved got their opportunities. Cena included....and his movies SUCKED. Suckage Major.
Cena's issue is wrestling is in his blood...blah blah blah...because everything he's tried to do outside of it blew. I think as far as the Machine goes, he runs within it perfectly and can definitely be considered a lock for the HOF one day. But that is where the comparison ends. It has to be. Because nothing else is available to be compared. He, Hogan and Rock where huge for the WWE in their respected time periods. Comparing one time period with the other is where we get hairy. Because nothing can be compared to the time period of Hulkamania. He had the Eighties LOCKED DOWN. He held the title for 4 YEARS before he lost it. Which means Vince couldn't afford to have the title off of him due to how much money he raked in off of Hogan being "the face of the company". Rock being a part of the attitude era was MAJOR. That whole crew of guys in that era blew the roof off of wrestling.
but now you have the Cena and the PG era. But let me tell you the REAL reason why this PG era sucks.
(shh...don't tell no body)
The PG era/CENATION sucks because their is no standard to be held to. No competition to fight against. There is no other company out there that is giving Vince a reason to put out cutting edge quality product. Cena is a product of complacency and laziness on Vince's part. Why work hard anymore? He can put out whatever he wants and we have to love it or leave it. But we eventually come back because WE love the business though it sucks right now. Cena wishes he was a real part of the attitude era, but he wouldn't have lasted a month. Cena wishes he could leave the PG era (because lets keep it real, he's not a real PG personality) and do some movies or do another album. But he can't. He's stuck and he hates it..and he's phony because he's trying to make the world believe that he loves it.
But I digress.
Cena's only real comparison to Hogan and the Rock is that he can claim headship over an era.
And...thats about it.

 

[Depakote]

I doubt that the Rock will show up for this event. Its possible, but I doubt it. There's only two things he can do at MitB. He can either screw Cena or help Cena keep his job. Is he going to save Cena just so he can go back to bashing him the next day on Twitter or whatever? It doesnt make sense. Theyve been crapping on each other all the way up to this point.

Its very possible that the Rock could show up to save Cena so they can still have their big match, but I dont see this happening. There's other ways to finish the MitB match while still keeping Cena in the company and also put some wind in the sails of a guy like Del Rio.

If the Rock shows up to MitB and screws Cena, all it does is makes him look cowardly and weak. It would look like the Rock is trying to get out of his match with Cena. Thats just not a good way to go about things. No matter what the Rock does between now and Wrestlemania, he's going into that match as a face. Making him do something as heel-ish as helping Punk walk out of MitB with the title would be a waste.

I do think we'll be seeing the Rock put the screws to Cena, but it will happen on a bigger stage like Summerslam, Survivor Series, or the Royal Rumble.

 

[rge2010]

Dwayne Johnson debuted at Survivor Series 1996 at Madison Square Garden. I dont buy into all this debuted as 'The Rock' in 1998 rubbish.

Rock will return at Survivor Series 2011 which is at Madson Square Garden. If he is at MITB I would be very surprised but wishful thinking and clutching at straws. The Rock isn't needed at MITB, it's all about Punk and the shine shouldn't be taken away from him.

 

[ShadowBurn]

I have to say, if the Rock does show up at the PPV, it will destroy it. All the hype over Cena/Punk will be overshadowed. It would put the focus on Dwayne. Not where it needs to be.

 

[Tyrath]

I think the Rock is referring to his debut at Survivor Series in Madison Square garden. That is where Survivor series is this year so I am expecting to see him around there. Someone's idea around the forum was for Team Rock vs Team Cena. I wouldn't mind seeing something like that.

As ShadowBurn said, WWE actually managed to make an interesting feud with Cena and someone else. I don't want to see the Rock get in the middle of it.

 

[jholcomb22]

If you are going to post the video of the Rock's promo, you should have posted the tweet he sent out a day later that said exactly when he was coming back.

"November 20th, 2011. MSG in NYC, The Rock brings it back to where it all began in 1996...Survivor Series! 15 years of smackdown"

This is the next time we will see him. If you need to see the tweet on WZ, go to news links. They posted it on the 14th.

WWE built up MITB well enough where they dont need Rock to show up. Regardless of how MITB ends, PPV buys should be high, and Raw ratings should go up just to see the fallout. Rock and WWE are gonna let the Punk story runs it course and wait til we are closer to Mania season before bringing him back.

 

[Stephen11]

It's possible that he will show up but I highly doubt it. WWE wants to get all of the money they can from the Rock being back in WWE (sort of), it's extremely unlikely that they would have him show up to an event (especially a PPV) unexpectedly. The Rock being at a PPV will shoot up buyrates and if he comes without notice then buyrates won't be higher so I doubt he's going to be at the MITB PPV. The PPV is also focused on Punk vs Cena, that feud already has great heat and a great build-up so this is probably one of the few PPVs that wouldn't need help to amp up the excitement for it.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

It's possible that he will show up but I highly doubt it. WWE wants to get all of the money they can from the Rock being back in WWE (sort of), it's extremely unlikely that they would have him show up to an event (especially a PPV) unexpectedly. The Rock being at a PPV will shoot up buyrates and if he comes without notice then buyrates won't be higher so I doubt he's going to be at the MITB PPV. The PPV is also focused on Punk vs Cena, that feud already has great heat and a great build-up so this is probably one of the few PPVs that wouldn't need help to amp up the excitement for it.

True, if it's advertised it will have an impact; but, at the same time, a surprise appearance could have a prolonged affect on ratings as people will be afraid of missing future surprise sightings.

As far as taking the shine of the Punk / Cena match. Punk is still meant to be leaving after MitB, so, theoretically will not be directly affecting WWe programming after this time. As such, a Rock appearance could be used to kickstart Cena's next storyline.

I had not seen the tweet that name checks the Survivor Series, so an appearance at MitB looks like a non starter. However, it is disappointing to hear that Mr Johnson will not be confronting the Cenation until November 20th

 

[RATED-RKOFRANKLIN]

The WWE needs a back up plan. Cena may get hurt before Wrestle Mania.

Who you would want to replace Cena if Cena is unable to compete?

 

[I_got_bant_for_idiocy]

When did John Cena become a phony? was it before or after the Rock's shitty 11 minute "shoot" video on YouTube? I don't know how anyone especially The Rock can call the biggest name in professional today a phony, when Cena does more for the business in a week, than the Rock has in the past 7 years.

You wanna know how cena is a phoney hes a copy cat wannabe

first he tried been like brock lesnar F5 than he came with the FU
than he came out with the wannabe peoples elbow, the 5 knuckle shuffle(what a flop)
than he tried been a rapper, hes good but he failed at that as well
than he tried acting that went nowhere
than theres this one is not his fault its vinces cuz he sees dollar signs when he looks at cena and the lil jimmys cheering for him Cenation = wannabe hulk hogan hustle royalty respect just a rip off of stay your prayers and take your vitamins.
John cena is like Mr.Potato Head u can make him one thing n than another thing , Hes there to make Vince rich...

what has john cena done for this business that the rock hasnt done yet????? go read to sick kids is all i can think of...

Rock has sold out more house shows
higher ppv buys
higher ratings
his name alone at wrestlemania got over a million buys
hes had classic matches with austin,hhh,hulk hogan, mick foley, brock lesnar,undertaker, and the list goes on
hes put more people over
the fans love him
he took wwe mainstream to a other level
and everybody wants to say how the rock wanted to distance himself and use his real name good god not his REAL NAME and not his stage name... hes not CHYNA he doesnt need to be called the rock 24/7 and if he stuck with calling himself the rock wwe would get a cut out of all his movies, why would he want to be taxed by the wwe by using the name the rock all the time, its simple business you morons why pay a royalty when you dont have to!!!

but u would believe cena has done more for the wwe
lil jimmys buy his shirts woow so much for the wwe
he gets booed yearly
he doesnt sell out house shows or ppv
he doesnt draw huge rating
his movies are a bust
what has cena really done for the wwe besides doing his job that he gets paid for????? NOTHING!!!!!!

Cena fans can bitch n cry all they want but as u can c they are cena fans so they will bitch n cry!!!! what do u expect

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

You wanna know how cena is a phoney hes a copy cat wannabe

first he tried been like brock lesnar F5 than he came with the FU
than he came out with the wannabe peoples elbow, the 5 knuckle shuffle(what a flop)
than he tried been a rapper, hes good but he failed at that as well
than he tried acting that went nowhere
than theres this one is not his fault its vinces cuz he sees dollar signs when he looks at cena and the lil jimmys cheering for him Cenation = wannabe hulk hogan hustle royalty respect just a rip off of stay your prayers and take your vitamins.
John cena is like Mr.Potato Head u can make him one thing n than another thing , Hes there to make Vince rich...

what has john cena done for this business that the rock hasnt done yet????? go read to sick kids is all i can think of...

Rock has sold out more house shows
higher ppv buys
higher ratings
his name alone at wrestlemania got over a million buys
hes had classic matches with austin,hhh,hulk hogan, mick foley, brock lesnar,undertaker, and the list goes on
hes put more people over
the fans love him
he took wwe mainstream to a other level
and everybody wants to say how the rock wanted to distance himself and use his real name good god not his REAL NAME and not his stage name... hes not CHYNA he doesnt need to be called the rock 24/7 and if he stuck with calling himself the rock wwe would get a cut out of all his movies, why would he want to be taxed by the wwe by using the name the rock all the time, its simple business you morons why pay a royalty when you dont have to!!!

but u would believe cena has done more for the wwe
lil jimmys buy his shirts woow so much for the wwe
he gets booed yearly
he doesnt sell out house shows or ppv
he doesnt draw huge rating
his movies are a bust
what has cena really done for the wwe besides doing his job that he gets paid for????? NOTHING!!!!!!

Cena fans can bitch n cry all they want but as u can c they are cena fans so they will bitch n cry!!!! what do u expect

the FU is a ripoff of the F5 except that it gets a bigger pop than most moves in wrestling now. So way to go on that one smart guy.

He failed as a rapper? People LOVED that character. Or if you meant you think he legitimately thought he'd be the next Jay Z then you're just stupid an need your head examined. Pretty sure Rock did a song too that sucked donkey dick.

The 5 knuckle shuffle=people's elbow (and a flop)? If it's a flop then why does it get a reaction? It's not a ripoff because Cena is smart enough to not use it as a finish. Also, if the 5 knuckle shuffle is a ripoff of the people's elbow, then the people's elbow is a ripoff of the earthquake splash or any other move with a theatrical set up.

If Cena is a ripoff of Hogan, then Hogan is a ripoff of superstar billy graham.

Rock has sold out more house shows? What the fuck? How is that even relevant? that could be because he had to be at more house shows, could mean the arenas were smaller and easier to fill. So many variables. Plus filling a house is a team effort from the promotion team and the rest of the card.

Higher PPV buys/Higher ratings. Well you know, he was also on the same card as Austin, who is the biggest draw of all time. Plus DX, plus it was during the monday night wars. So again, you're giving Rock credit for something that has a ton of variables. Pretty stupid argument again.

"his name alone sold 1 million buys" again that's fucking stupid. "His name alone". So, if Rock isn't on that card, then NO ONE buys? You have any idea how fucking stupid that sounds? What's your education level? Rock DID sell a lot more. However, it was because he's a novelty.

"Had classic matches" uh...so does Cena. Cena and Rock are about technically equal and both get a ton of reaction to their matches. If you personally think Rock had more classics then that's your OPINION, however, objectively, they aren't that different.

Rock put more people over. Well maybe, but he also buried a lot more by leaving the WWE when they needed him, so it's pretty much negated.

the fans love him. They love Cena too. Cena WORKS people into booing AND cheering him. So again, they aren't that much different.

He took WWE to another level. Hmm, nope, that was actually Austin, Rock just kept it going.

"He gets booed yearly" like I said, unless you're a moron, you should be able to tell he's working that reaction. Not only that, but if people ACTUALLY didn't like him, they wouldn't make any noise. So you lose again.

He doesn't sell house shows/draw/etc, wow this is the dumbest argument yet. He's WWE's BIGGEST DRAW. So what if they aren't drawing what they did in the late 90s, that was a perfect storm. I guarantee you that if in 1999, UFC was kicking ass, and someone massacred their whole family and WWE had to go to a PG format because of it, ratings would drop.

"Cena' movies are a bust" yea, and that's why the Rock was nominated for a fucking Razzie, because he's so awesome that he gets nominated for WORST FUCKING ACTOR.

Everyone think about this. Rock tried to get over with a PG character and failed miserably. Then, when he could cuss and be vulgar, he got over.

Cena was very over as a more edgy character, then he was STILL over and found a way to get EVERYONE in the arena to make noise as a PG character.

Think about this too. 2002-2004 both John Cena and The Rock are edgy characters and more brash. WWE goes PG, Rock makes disney movies from then until now.

They've done the same fucking thing. So why does Cena get shit on for being a product of his environment and doing the best possible job? O yea, because a majority of wrestling fans are trailer trash idiots who have no business sense or have any idea how to look at things and figure out why they are the way they are before they shit on it. Plus wrestling fans are generally poorer and thus, more nostalgic because their life now sucks compared to when they were a kid (when they first started watching wrestling).

 

[Clearly Limitless]

I understand what you're saying and I think we're agreed on one thing for sure. All three are what made the engine run at their time. In the golden age with Hogan they were running a HUGE jumbo jet engine. In the attitude era with the Rock and SCSA they were running a Concord engine...and now with this PG era and Cena, their still running an engine...the engine just kinda sucks. (be honest, the PG era kinda sucks.)
I think Vince is trying to recreate hulkamania in this PG era with Cena. But I don't think he's getting the same spark he got with Hogan. Hogan was a once in a lifetime deal that will never be able to be duplicated. The thing is, Cena, knows this. Cena knows what Vince is trying to do, and all of this Hustle, Loyalty, Respect (train, eat your vitamins, say your prayers) is failed attempt at trying to make him THAT guy. Well...not failed because he sells a crap load of merch and is making the company millions. SO not failed in that aspect.
Well...not failed at all actually. Vince is getting exactly what he wants out of Cena. I guess the real question is, is Cena getting what HE wants out of the business.
I guess you get in the business to become whatever they want you to become and do whatever it is your supposed to whether they want you to be a heel or face ;win or lose. But in the WWE the goals are slightly different. I think that people who love the business stay in the business because they love it. But the WWE isn't considered the wrestling business anymore. And to be honest if you ask Vince to be candid I think he'll say that it hasn't been the business of wrestling for a long time. That being the case I think people like the Rock, love the business and stayed in it as long as he could and other opportunities found him and he walked away. Vince created opportunities like what the Rock got by creating WWE Films.... Most, if not all of those movies sucked, but the wrestlers involved got their opportunities. Cena included....and his movies SUCKED. Suckage Major.
Cena's issue is wrestling is in his blood...blah blah blah...because everything he's tried to do outside of it blew. I think as far as the Machine goes, he runs within it perfectly and can definitely be considered a lock for the HOF one day. But that is where the comparison ends. It has to be. Because nothing else is available to be compared. He, Hogan and Rock where huge for the WWE in their respected time periods. Comparing one time period with the other is where we get hairy. Because nothing can be compared to the time period of Hulkamania. He had the Eighties LOCKED DOWN. He held the title for 4 YEARS before he lost it. Which means Vince couldn't afford to have the title off of him due to how much money he raked in off of Hogan being "the face of the company". Rock being a part of the attitude era was MAJOR. That whole crew of guys in that era blew the roof off of wrestling.
but now you have the Cena and the PG era. But let me tell you the REAL reason why this PG era sucks.
(shh...don't tell no body)
The PG era/CENATION sucks because their is no standard to be held to. No competition to fight against. There is no other company out there that is giving Vince a reason to put out cutting edge quality product. Cena is a product of complacency and laziness on Vince's part. Why work hard anymore? He can put out whatever he wants and we have to love it or leave it. But we eventually come back because WE love the business though it sucks right now. Cena wishes he was a real part of the attitude era, but he wouldn't have lasted a month. Cena wishes he could leave the PG era (because lets keep it real, he's not a real PG personality) and do some movies or do another album. But he can't. He's stuck and he hates it..and he's phony because he's trying to make the world believe that he loves it.
But I digress.
Cena's only real comparison to Hogan and the Rock is that he can claim headship over an era.
And...thats about it.

Wow, this is insightful. I was reading this totally agreeing. VinnyMac, has in my opinion majorly slacked off in his effort. At the same time, I will give a smidge of credit to Cena for coming to work. I mean its gotta suck when your supposed to be the good guy babyface of the company and get booed everywhere. Its kind of sad when you look at it. VKM has really invested a lot into Cena and pushed HIS investment paid off massively money wise (which is the only thing that matters to him).
When the rapper thing was happening Cena was really over, but I think he went from that into this PG Howdy Doody Cena thing that makes the kiddies happy but overall sucks as a gimmick. He's the face of the company not because he's talented but because VKM wanted it that way.
I'm not going to repeat the sentiments of the above quote but yeah, my thoughts exactly.
While I won't say that the Rock is the greatest thing to ever happen to wrestling, I will say that he is light years beyond Cena in almost ever conceivable way. I mean every major face has had their 5 moves of doom, but his 5 moves of doom along with this Captain America thing he's got going is old tired and needs to be put to rest. I think a heel turn is exactly what he needs to reinvent himself.
And to be honest, I dont think VKM will lose money in him doing so. I think he'll either break even with the amount of new and returning viewers, and make more money off of the adults who finally get with Cena. There are many different factors that could play into why its a bad idea but I think VKM has been playing it over in his mind for a while now and the time Cena gets off is going to be a perfect time to get a new face going and bring him back to be the monster heel we all would LOVE him to be. To be honest, I think more than anything, he NEEDS a heel turn.

 

[bjdc1204]

They both have valid points...like when cena talked about The Rock being gone and all. BUT i mainly disagree with him because when The Rock said he's never gonna leave again, that doesnt necessarily mean every week he's gonna be there, fight a match & do house shows. It just means he wont go quiet with the people...which he isnt. He is still very much vocal with the fans & he will be making a few more appearance b4 WM!!

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

One thing everyone bashing Cena should think about is the ERA he's in. He cannot be vulgar and brash. It's PG. It has to be PG for reasons greater than your opinions. That being 1) Vince needs to rebuild a foundation for a fanbase, starting young, generally young people love wrestling and you grow out of it and 2) after Benoit they must project a cleaner image, they're traded on wallstreet now and after that everything is under a greater microscope.

So once you realize this ask yourself, do I really dislike Cena, or is it that I can't enjoy wrestling geared towards families? THEN ask yourself, would I still like The Rock if he couldn't be crude and vulgar? THEN ask yourself, was Rocky Maivia very entertaining?

Otherwise you sound like an unintelligent moron for just assuming it's a level playing field and that the conditions each work at are the same. Rock had no restrictions and the company had to do ANYTHING to keep up with WCW and Austin was already running around flipping the bird and being vulgar; Cena has a ton of restrictions, wrestles for a company with nothing to really gain and no real threats, a publicly traded company with an image to upkeep a few years after one of their own was in one of the most publicized murders in recent history.

Saying Cena sucks because he's too kid friendly and loving the Rock for being vulgar and brash is like saying pitchers of today suck compared to pitchers of the 60s even though the mound was higher then, ballparks were bigger, players weren't as well conditioned, and there weren't steroids or other PEDs. It's a stupid argument that sounds like you don't have any means of thinking critically as to "why" things are the way they are.

Imagine if Cena had no restrictions, and imagine if Rock had a ton of restrictions is all I'm really saying.

 

[UnhappyFan]

One thing everyone bashing Cena should think about is the ERA he's in. He cannot be vulgar and brash. It's PG. It has to be PG for reasons greater than your opinions. That being 1) Vince needs to rebuild a foundation for a fanbase, starting young, generally young people love wrestling and you grow out of it and 2) after Benoit they must project a cleaner image, they're traded on wallstreet now and after that everything is under a greater microscope.

So once you realize this ask yourself, do I really dislike Cena, or is it that I can't enjoy wrestling geared towards families? THEN ask yourself, would I still like The Rock if he couldn't be crude and vulgar? THEN ask yourself, was Rocky Maivia very entertaining?

Otherwise you sound like an unintelligent moron for just assuming it's a level playing field and that the conditions each work at are the same. Rock had no restrictions and the company had to do ANYTHING to keep up with WCW and Austin was already running around flipping the bird and being vulgar; Cena has a ton of restrictions, wrestles for a company with nothing to really gain and no real threats, a publicly traded company with an image to upkeep a few years after one of their own was in one of the most publicized murders in recent history.

Saying Cena sucks because he's too kid friendly and loving the Rock for being vulgar and brash is like saying pitchers of today suck compared to pitchers of the 60s even though the mound was higher then, ballparks were bigger, players weren't as well conditioned, and there weren't steroids or other PEDs. It's a stupid argument that sounds like you don't have any means of thinking critically as to "why" things are the way they are.

Imagine if Cena had no restrictions, and imagine if Rock had a ton of restrictions is all I'm really saying.

I agree with you on trying to compare people from different eras. You can't compare Hogan's era to Cena era even though they both are PG. Also you can't compare Rock's Attitude era to any other era.

I also agree that Cena is working the boos as much as he can. He doesn't want it to be that way. No matter what you or anyone one else says. He is only doing the best that he can. I just wish Vince would understand that Hogan will probably be the only person to get over with the I will never do anything wrong character.

I will only get over so long before people start hating it. Bob Backland on of the best actual wrestlers of all time couldn't even get away with it forever. I'm not saying Cena needs to be a heel, but he can't be so perfect all the time.

You love to bring up that Hogan is a copy of Superstar Billy Graham. Which in some aspects he is. However I haven't seen you say that Cena is a copy of Hogan in any aspect. Besides of course him being the face of the company. They are so similar that it is hard to deny.

With that being said, just about every wrestler has taken something from the people before them. The thing is that most of the time it is the promoters who are telling them to do the stuff.

Ric Flair: took his style from Nature Boy Buddy Rogers and his strut from Jackie Fargo.

Great Muta: took Great Kabuki face paint and mist

Demolition: took alot of things from the Road Warriors

NWO: took their entire idea from NJPW

My whole point is that it doesn't matter if it is new or taken. It only matters if it is working for you or not. The Superhero gimmick is and isn't working for John Cena at the same time.

Earlier you said that Austin was the biggest draw of all time. That title goes to Hogan. Hogan was the MAN for at least 12 years including WWE/WCW (you said of all time). I don't think Austins 6 years out drew more. He may have come close, but I don't think he eclipse Hogan.

The Rock didn't bury anyone by leaving. It is his business if he wanted to leave. The Kliq/Hogan/Flair and other big name people buried people by not wanting to work with them. If someone wants to leave to pursue something else it is their prerogative.

At the end of the day it is all a business. If a company can't survive because an employee left, that is the companies fault. Not that fault of the employee. If a company can survive of Cena and his so called 5 moves or whatever people say. Then it is more power to them.

It is called entertainment for a reason. If he is able to entertain people with a limited move set. Then I think he is doing his job. If you disagree then you shouldn't support him or the company that is supporting him. If you want someone else to get the title then support that person through twitter/facebook and buying their products.

Since all the titles are jokes to me. I watch the show for the actual wrestling. I block out the storylines for the most part.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

I agree with you on trying to compare people from different eras. You can't compare Hogan's era to Cena era even though they both are PG. Also you can't compare Rock's Attitude era to any other era.

I also agree that Cena is working the boos as much as he can. He doesn't want it to be that way. No matter what you or anyone one else says. He is only doing the best that he can. I just wish Vince would understand that Hogan will probably be the only person to get over with the I will never do anything wrong character.

I will only get over so long before people start hating it. Bob Backland on of the best actual wrestlers of all time couldn't even get away with it forever. I'm not saying Cena needs to be a heel, but he can't be so perfect all the time.

You love to bring up that Hogan is a copy of Superstar Billy Graham. Which in some aspects he is. However I haven't seen you say that Cena is a copy of Hogan in any aspect. Besides of course him being the face of the company. They are so similar that it is hard to deny.

With that being said, just about every wrestler has taken something from the people before them. The thing is that most of the time it is the promoters who are telling them to do the stuff.

Ric Flair: took his style from Nature Boy Buddy Rogers and his strut from Jackie Fargo.

Great Muta: took Great Kabuki face paint and mist

Demolition: took alot of things from the Road Warriors

NWO: took their entire idea from NJPW

My whole point is that it doesn't matter if it is new or taken. It only matters if it is working for you or not. The Superhero gimmick is and isn't working for John Cena at the same time.

Earlier you said that Austin was the biggest draw of all time. That title goes to Hogan. Hogan was the MAN for at least 12 years including WWE/WCW (you said of all time). I don't think Austins 6 years out drew more. He may have come close, but I don't think he eclipse Hogan.

The Rock didn't bury anyone by leaving. It is his business if he wanted to leave. The Kliq/Hogan/Flair and other big name people buried people by not wanting to work with them. If someone wants to leave to pursue something else it is their prerogative.

At the end of the day it is all a business. If a company can't survive because an employee left, that is the companies fault. Not that fault of the employee. If a company can survive of Cena and his so called 5 moves or whatever people say. Then it is more power to them.

It is called entertainment for a reason. If he is able to entertain people with a limited move set. Then I think he is doing his job. If you disagree then you shouldn't support him or the company that is supporting him. If you want someone else to get the title then support that person through twitter/facebook and buying their products.

Since all the titles are jokes to me. I watch the show for the actual wrestling. I block out the storylines for the most part.

It's not that Hogan was "able" to get a do nothing wrong character over, it was the era. Think about all the movies and songs and bands in the 80s that would get shit on today. Hogan was no better than Cena, he just had an easier audience to work. Not as many people were smartened up and everyone didn't over-analyse things.

I was thinking about this with the Green Lantern movie. Is it a great movie? No, but it's fun. However, nobody just wants to have fun with entertainment anymore. They want to critique the shit out of it until they don't have any fun. Wrestling seems to be the same way. People want things one particular way and if it's not that way, exactly how they like it, then fuck 'em.

Why do you block out storylines? You said "it's entertainment" and storylines supplement the matches so well. In fact, some matches have little subtleties that enrich the match only if you've followed the story. Shit the Orton/Christian match tonight wouldn't make any sense had you not seen that.

I agree that Cena's character is similar to Hogan's. I agree that everyone takes from everyone. I just think it's stupid that people single Cena out.

As far as it "working and not working" no, it's totally working. People are making noise. The people booing love to boo. They wouldn't be making any noise if they didn't feel something for the character. the audience isn't uniform anymore, it's very segmented, and Cena is one of the few guys who is able to manage all segments.

If we apply the same "well some people are loud in the opposite of the intended reaction" logic then Punk did a bad job because there was a sizeable "let's go Cena" chant or 2 tonight. Does that mean he did a bad job? Fuck no, those people felt every bit as passionate about the match as the Punk fans. Same thing with Cena. People are passionate about him. Punk was right, Cena IS the Yankees. People either love him or love to hate him. As much as I hate the Yankees, when I dream about my team (the Braves) winning the world series, it's always against the Yankees because I would love to see them go down to my Braves in the world series. It's the same in this. The ENTIRE Punk/Cena storyline couldn't work with any other 2 guys.

All that said, I'm so glad we're finally getting some posts other than "CENA IS TEH SUX AND ROK WILL KICK HIS RUDY POO ASS".

As for Austin being a bigger draw. We should specify. Who has drawn the most absolute value dollars over time is probably Hogan because he was on top longer. However, in Austins' peak, nobody else drew more in their respective peak.

 

[PrimeTime31]

John Cena's Twitter

I have just been 'future endeavored'. Well..if that's how it is I would like to take a moment to publicly apologize to Dwayne 'the Rock' Johnson. In an effort to make WM28 as big as possible I tried to expose rock for his flaws. Very childish and immature on my behalf.

My comments about the rocks absence were both unprofessional and childish. I am sorry. Rock, I truly wish and still hope in my heart of Hearts that the crazy old man who is the boss reconsiders his totally rash decision. Because chicago was insane last night

And it made me think.of what Miami could have been. I guess sometimes u do not know what u have until it is lost.

CeNation. I very rarely ask u for anything but I am down to my last chance. If u could tweet WWE to let them know not to fire me I would be indebted to u all. Im not saying its gonna work but sometimes they can not ignore the universe

what is going on here?

It's called a work also keeping to kayfabe which they rarely do anymore.

The goal is to make the story look as real as possible. I highly doubt VKM would fire THE FACE of the company over a scripted match.

Yes I am aware that Cena isn't fired, but I thought the Rock comments were interesting since they have been recently bashing each other every chance they got. I'm sure this is to show how upset Cena is about the situation but I was just surprised by a "backing down" type of apology.

 

[Nas pins jay-z]

I liked Rock's reply to the apology. Telling him to shove his phony apology up his ass keeps the fire going. The last thing we need is for both guys to go soft. I'm sure cena will fire back at Rock for not accepting his apology triple h makes it clear he's not fired.

 

[Mr.MainEvent]

He posted this on his Twitter and I didn't see anyone post it up here yet so thought I may as well. If this isn't in the right section feel free to move it.

Cena fans: pls stop tweeting me to stop being "mean" to John. If u think I'm mean now, just wait til Survivor Series in NYC.

So what do people think will happen at Survivor Series? Will we see The Rock cost Cena a match/title again? The idea of a Team Bring it vs Team CeNation elimination match has been touted on here, would anyone like to see that? Discuss homies.

 

[h_sid7]

The Rock is really laying into Cena on twitter, and I think he's gonna cost him a title match at SS, and Cena will be angry.

lol Cena tweets back

http://twitter.com/#!/JohnCena/status/95557557837500416

Dear Dwayne, excited that you are thinking of attending Survivor Series in MSG! U can buy your ticket on sept 10th. See you there!

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

The Rock is really laying into Cena on twitter, and I think he's gonna cost him a title match at SS, and Cena will be angry.

The Rock is regurgitating the exact same bullshit in every promo hes cut/tweeted since his return. Nothing he's said is new, it all follows the same childish Rock promo type. "Blah blah blah lay the smackdown, blah blah blah candy ass, blah blah blah blue I love blue waffles pie blah blah blah if you smell my lame as outdated promo material blah blah." Same garbage Rock promo from 2002

However Cena gets the best of the Rock in every promo because he points out the obvious, which if you haven't noticed is the lack of the Rock on WWE TV. The Rock may say that Cena and others misunderstood his promise to never leave, but the Rock is the idiot who said it, and if its not what he meant he should retracted his statement due to being a pussy.

Lets hope the Rock does show up at Summer Slam, so Cena or someone else who's an active wrestler can knock his teeth down his throat so we never have to hear his voice again.