Your "True Opinions" Of Posters?

[Mustang Sally]

Why does no one (except Sam because he told me so) love me?

I do!

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

I do!

*Insert KB/Becca/Will Joke Here*

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Most of you are alright.

 

[JGlass]

Damn it, Jiggles you just keep coming don't you?

Makes cleaning up a real bitch.

Cena getting booed is one of the salient and most distinguishable characteristics of this era. And I think that it was around this time that the announcers started mentioning that Cena was a controversial champion and basically acknowledged the fact that some guys don't like Cena. That in turn has shaped Cena's character as a person who has no problem with this sort of behaviour and in fact encourages the fans to act in whatever manner that they want to.

So we're going to call Cena getting mixed reactions the defining feature of the PG era? That seems awfully stupid. It's a big part of the era for sure, but I'm more than hesitant to acknowledge it as the most important part of the era.

Tell me, what impact has Cena's return at the Royal Rumble 2008 left. Sure it was a cool moment and all but at the end of the day it was just a storyline that has been forgotten. Cena getting a negative reaction at WM 22 and then again at ONS 2006 have shaped up a facet of his character which has been utilized quite often by the WWE and by Cena himself to further storylines.

It kicked off an era with main eventers galore. Look at WrestleMania 24, we have five guys in the main events, HBK was busy retiring Ric Flair, Batista needed to be put into a program, so he got Umaga, and after that guys like JBL, Jericho, and CM Punk would all be elevated to main event status within 6 months. Cena's return merely marked the return of the face of the era to wrestling, and the most important characteristics of the era (lots of main eventers, an actual PG rating, Cena still getting mixed reactions) fell into place shortly after.

Even then you have got only 13 in five and a half years, so what is wrong with 6 in three?

Nothing, I just prefer having 2 or 3 great guys along with a lot of very good guys instead of just having 3 or 4 great guys and 2 or 3 very good guys.

Before going any further I would like to add that I think that Orton, Mysterio, Edge and Punk are all great performers but they aren't by any stretch of imagination among the top 10-15 performers of all time. You have aready mentioned that among the AE performers you rank Austin, Rock, HHH and Angle as top 10 level performers. I only intend to prove that the Orton, Mysterio, Edge and Punk are not in that category and by extension the level of talent in the PG era isn't as great as it was in the AE.

Nothing. Except the fact that I find it difficult to acknowledge someone who has wasted two or three huge pushes as a top 15 level performer.

Benoit is not a top 15 level performer. Jericho might be but as we have already discussed, he was not a permanent main eventer at the height of the AE and nor am I saying that he was. Angle was more or less permanent once he started main eventing.

Mysterio is like Benoit, a midcarder who main events at times though I must add that Mysterio is more charismatic. Niether are top 15 level performers, though.

I feel bad for you for wasting all your time with these arguments. Of course none of these guys are top 10 or 15 (I'd say Mysterio is top 15, but whatever) performers, this was never a battle of which era had more quality performers, it was about the merits of quantity vs. quality.

The "Spear" chant was pushed heavily by the WWE but the people were not all that enthusiastic about it at all.

I'm sorry, did you conduct an ethnographic study of WWE fans that were at Smackdown events while Edge was face?

And the other part of of your statement is factually incorrect. Sheamus was a main event heel on Raw along with Jericho. Batista was there and would leave in a month. Also it would be safe to assume that Nexus had already been planned. So with there being three main event level heels on Raw why was Edge brought to Raw from Smackdown and turned a heel if he was succeeding as a face? There were two faces and four main event heels on Raw after Edge was brought in. He could have easily been brought in as a face had he not flopped terribly as one during WrestleMania season.

Sheamus was a main event heel, but hardly on the level Edge would have been. Batista was leaving in a month, so they needed to be proactive and turn Edge. It's not safe to assume that Nexus was planned, as I think we all know that the WWE is not so big on planning ahead and sticking to those plans.

Furthermore, he wouldn't have fit as a face. John Cena and Orton would have overshadowed him, and he would have impeded the push of John Morrison. Better he shine as a heel than play third fiddle to Cena and Orton.

Why the fuck are we talking about this again? How is this relevant to the discussion at all?

Him hitting the laptop with a chair was the highpoint of his face turn. I remember saying how he turned face by going on a crusade against stupidity and then went of to participate in one of the most stupid angles of all time.

Stupid, yes, but the fans ate it up. It also doesn't change the fact that Edge was a main eventer, which is really all that matters.

His last run was OK. Nothing great, just good matches complimented with Cookie Cutter storylines. But it was largely overshadowed by the feuds of Cena and Orton. Even on Smackdown some people would say that Cody vs Rey was perhaps the better feud than any of Edge's feuds. He was not a great face.

He was in the mainevent from 2006-2011, and he managed to stay relevant and interesting the entire time.

Austin, Rock and HHH were. Angle and Foley were certainly above average draws. And excluding Foley , the other four are among the best top 15 wrestlers of all time. Punk hasn't proven so far that he can be one and therefore he isn't a top 15 level performer. But as I have said, he may become one in the near future.

The PG Era still has Cena, HBK, Trips, Jericho, and Taker. Whether they were produced in the era or not is irrelevant, they were still huge draws during the era.

 

[ABMorales787]

The only stupid thing I see in todays era is the fact that The Undertaker, an undead mortician with supernatural control over arena lights and FX cues, wrestles. With MMA gloves.

That and the genesis of the beginning at the debut to start off the premiere of McGullicutty (Not Hennig but still Curt Hennig's son).

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

So we're going to call Cena getting mixed reactions the defining feature of the PG era? That seems awfully stupid. It's a big part of the era for sure, but I'm more than hesitant to acknowledge it as the most important part of the era.

If it isn't, then what is? When have you had an era in wrestling where the most over performer is the one that can incite both love and hatred from the crowd? A section of the crowd wants to see Cena win but there is a section that is dying to see Cena lose as well. As a result both type of guys want to see Cena but for entirely different reasons. Don't you think that it is a remarkable thing?

And anyhow, it's not a slight on Cena at all. It just shows how the audience has changed over the years and this is, in fact, the most significant thing that embodies this change. I believe you touched on this point a bit earlier.

It kicked off an era with main eventers galore. Look at WrestleMania 24, we have five guys in the main events, HBK was busy retiring Ric Flair, Batista needed to be put into a program, so he got Umaga, and after that guys like JBL, Jericho, and CM Punk would all be elevated to main event status within 6 months. Cena's return merely marked the return of the face of the era to wrestling, and the most important characteristics of the era (lots of main eventers, an actual PG rating, Cena still getting mixed reactions) fell into place shortly after.

No it did not. JBL had already been a main eventer and in his second run he did not last much. Jericho has been alternating between main event and midcard since long before. Punk was elevated but went down the card soon so it was back to square one for him. The actual variety started showing itself much later and I think it started with Punk getting elevated again in 2009 against Hardy which was followed by the emergence of Sheamus, Barrett, Miz and so on.

The rating was actually more of a cosmetic change than anything else. Most people do not even realize that WWE went PG in 2008 and despite less bloody matches it hasn't affected the product to a noticeable degree.

Nothing, I just prefer having 2 or 3 great guys along with a lot of very good guys instead of just having 3 or 4 great guys and 2 or 3 very good guys.

6 main eventers in three years gives you two main eventers produced per year on an average. 13 main eventers produced in 5 and a half years gives you 2.36 main eventers produced per year which can be rounded upto 2 main eventers per year, just like the Attitude era. The huge variety that you are talking about isn't all that huge.

I feel bad for you for wasting all your time with these arguments. Of course none of these guys are top 10 or 15 (I'd say Mysterio is top 15, but whatever) performers, this was never a battle of which era had more quality performers, it was about the merits of quantity vs. quality.

But here you mentioned:

And while you are right in saying that Quantity≠Quality, I would argue that the PG Era has provided stars that were just as exciting as the Attitude Era, and I'd also say that quantity can sometimes be better than quality. John Cena is going to wind up being a top 10 wrestler of all time, if not top 5. Randy Orton seems to evolve into a better wrestler every month. Edge proved that he could keep a crowd on their feet whether he was a face or a heel. Rey Mysterio can't put on a bad match, he just can't. CM Punk is exactly what he says he is, the voice of a new generation/voiceless. Now sure, the Attitude Era produced three of the best ever in Austin, Rocky, and Trips (maybe four if you want to count Angle, which I kind of do), but the PG Era isn't far behind.

But as I have pointed out and a fact that you have agreed with, Cena is the only guy from this era that will be considered among the top 15 wrestlers of all time whereas the AE had four guys who could could be in that discussion. Hence AE wins, 4-1.

 

[Alex]

Naitch must be the only person on here (I think) that likes all of the music I do

 

[CH David]

Naitch must be the only person on here (I think) that likes all of the music I do

Didn't I turn you onto Alice in Chains?

 

[JGlass]

If it isn't, then what is? When have you had an era in wrestling where the most over performer is the one that can incite both love and hatred from the crowd? A section of the crowd wants to see Cena win but there is a section that is dying to see Cena lose as well. As a result both type of guys want to see Cena but for entirely different reasons. Don't you think that it is a remarkable thing?

And anyhow, it's not a slight on Cena at all. It just shows how the audience has changed over the years and this is, in fact, the most significant thing that embodies this change. I believe you touched on this point a bit earlier.

I told you that the most important factors of the PG Era are the PG rating and the huge, diverse group of main event wrstlers.

I realized it's not a slight at Cena, and I agree that it's an aspect of the era, but not the most important by any stretch of the imagination.

No it did not. JBL had already been a main eventer and in his second run he did not last much. Jericho has been alternating between main event and midcard since long before. Punk was elevated but went down the card soon so it was back to square one for him. The actual variety started showing itself much later and I think it started with Punk getting elevated again in 2009 against Hardy which was followed by the emergence of Sheamus, Barrett, Miz and so on.

All still in the main event...

The rating was actually more of a cosmetic change than anything else. Most people do not even realize that WWE went PG in 2008 and despite less bloody matches it hasn't affected the product to a noticeable degree.

I agree, but for the first time WWE HAD TO enforce the standards as opposed to just wanting to.

6 main eventers in three years gives you two main eventers produced per year on an average. 13 main eventers produced in 5 and a half years gives you 2.36 main eventers produced per year which can be rounded upto 2 main eventers per year, just like the Attitude era. The huge variety that you are talking about isn't all that huge.

You're math is pointless. First of all, you keep on going to this 5 and a half statistic when the PG Era has been around for no more than 3. You may almost certainly be alone in saying that the Era could have started at ONS 06 or WrestleMania 22. That means in three years you have 13(ish) main eventers, giving you 4.33 main eventers per year.

Even more importantly, though, is the fact that you don't just take the average number of main eventers and use that many guys for the entire year, you use all of them. So really, in the Attitude Era you had 6 main eventers per year, in the PG Era you have more than a dozen main eventers per year.

But as I have pointed out and a fact that you have agreed with, Cena is the only guy from this era that will be considered among the top 15 wrestlers of all time whereas the AE had four guys who could could be in that discussion. Hence AE wins, 4-1.

Perhaps just as big was a poor choice of words, and perhaps nearly as big would have been more apt. Still, on top of Cena the PG Era has Triple H, HBK, and Batista, all being massive draws. As big as Rock and Stone Cold? No, but nearly as big.

 

[CH David]

Naitch must be the only person on here (I think) that likes all of the music I do

Didn't I turn you onto Alice in Chains?

 

[Alex]

Didn't I turn you onto Alice in Chains?

Yea you did (and I thank you very much for it) but I mean like all the things in my music collection he seems to have as well.

 

[JGlass]

Oh, and to repay the favor to those who mentioned me...

CH David- I used to think you didn't like me very much, but over the past month or so you've become one of my favorite dudes to talk to. You have a solid taste in music, talk wrestling with the best of them, and I admire you for working on your own radio program in hopes of breaking into the industry.

FunKay- When IC first added you into ICE I was skeptical that you were anything more than just a friendly face around the spam sections. You proved me wrong and then some. Despite your laid back and somewhat goofy personality you can be a fierce debater, and you are much more knowledgeable than most of the jokers around these parts.

Phatso- You know you're my boy. I love swapping drinking stories or chick stories or any type of stories with you on MSN, and you're one of my go-to guys for any WZCW related questions. I also admire you as a poster. You work hard, and you have the smarts to make everything you say very credible, especially when it comes to discussing music, where you never cease to impress me.

 

[CH David]

Yea you did (and I thank you very much for it) but I mean like all the things in my music collection he seems to have as well.

Oh no, I didn't mean we have the same taste or anything. I just wasn't sure if it was you or someone else. Had an inkling it was you though.

 

[Mr. Steve]

Dave - My bro. Nothing else can be said. Closest friend that I haven't met on here.

 

[CH David]

I'll go kill myself for leaving off my Puerto Rican brother.

 

[Big Sexy]

Even more importantly, though, is the fact that you don't just take the average number of main eventers and use that many guys for the entire year, you use all of them. So really, in the Attitude Era you had 6 main eventers per year, in the PG Era you have more than a dozen main eventers per year.

You do realize that with two World Titles and two basically separate rosters that there's obviously going to be more guys getting into the main event. Maybe this has been addressed but I sure as fuck am not reading this entire debate.

 

[JGlass]

You do realize that with two World Titles and two basically separate rosters that there's obviously going to be more guys getting into the main event. Maybe this has been addressed but I sure as fuck am not reading this entire debate.

It has been addressed. It doesn't matter why there are more main eventers, just that there are.

 

[Big Nick Dudley]

You do realize that with two World Titles and two basically separate rosters that there's obviously going to be more guys getting into the main event. Maybe this has been addressed but I sure as fuck am not reading this entire debate.

He understands. He just doesn't give a shit.

PG ERA 4-EVA BRO!

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

FunKay- When IC first added you into ICE I was skeptical that you were anything more than just a friendly face around the spam sections. You proved me wrong and then some. Despite your laid back and somewhat goofy personality you can be a fierce debater, and you are much more knowledgeable than most of the jokers around these parts.

It would seem that I've been described as Rey Mysterio. If I were to add in a section about being an underdog, it could be complete.

 

[Big Sexy]

It has been addressed. It doesn't matter why there are more main eventers, just that there are.

It's that line of thinking that helps prostitutes sleep at night. "It doesn't matter how I make $500 a night, just that I do."

 

[JGlass]

It's that line of thinking that helps prostitutes sleep at night. "It doesn't matter how I make $500 a night, just that I do."

Your logic is baffling.

 

[Big Sexy]

The circumstances under why something occurs is certainly important.

 

[JGlass]

The circumstances under why something occurs is certainly important.

Except that's not what you talked about. I talked about why x exists, you talked about how x happened. Not a solid analogy by any means.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Why does no one (except Sam because he told me so) love me?

I wanted you to take over WZPC. If that's not love, then I don't know what is. I'd write about you but I got tired of doing these things a while back.

 

[Goliath Uterus]

tdigs is mah *****, that is my well informed opinion of him.