*MERGED* [OFFICIAL] The Nexus General Discussion thread

[BWEEZY2009]

At first I thought it was going to be Barrett and a couple heel NXT stars. When I saw Slater jump the railing I was in complete shock. Fast forward 10 minutes and you have Justin Gabriel doing the 450 on John Cena.

Absolutely in shock and wanting to see more. I agree with a lot of the posters above that those armbands with the letter "N" might be foreshadowing a future faction.

What ever happens, the WWE left me wanting to see next week's Raw for the first time in a long time.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Gabriel cutting a face promo on his way out makes sense.

Say you are getting fired from your job, are you going to go on a tirade on your boss? A lot of people wouldn't and would act professionally, regardless if they felt it was unfair or not. Let's say a couple days later that that same guy meets up with a bunch of other guys who feel pissed off, share their unfair stories and get you all fired up and pissed off. All the sudden you got the manpower to show you're not going to take that crap anymore and you're off to make a statement.

Again dude, it's not that illogical.

If you were alluding to the potential for a takeover, absolutely you would.

Even those who were fired but were holding back incredible aggressions and hatreds would still show in some fashion that all is not well inside. No matter the size or make of the gas tank, all have a pressure release valve if only to relieve some of that pressure building inside in the event pressure does in fact build.

The same goes for wrestling characters here. When a heel is to turn face or a face is to turn heel – generally speaking, of course – a build is required, even if that build is marginal. There was no build for Gabriel. He cut a babyface promo like he just retired prior to joining this NXT renegades group. There was no allusion to anything other than the idea that he was going to continue to "work hard" and one day return as an active roster member under the same disposition he left under – a babyface.

 

[shattered dreams]

It was definitely a surprise. I will give it that. However, it was a cheap surprise because let's be honest it made pretty much no sense. I suspect this will be the high point because of that problem. There are some interesting elements in play here but it is hard to get past the fact about half of those guys are worthless or at least well below what wwe already has. I was expecting something a little better from the "great ending" and the rest of raw was mostly bad/corny as always. I will keep my eye on the storyline but I do not find this ending to be "like the most awesome thing ever" as many appear to. The biggest problem is that they just spent a long time showing how almost entirely these guys couldn't even hang with any established superstar in the ring let alone top guys which makes booking the upcoming matches confusing and seems to suggest a simple stable of even midcard talent could easily set them back. Which is why many are asking why the hell didn't anyone security, superstars etc just go stop them. Hell, it took 8 of them a long time to take out cena. Do not quite get the whole thing but it is better than most of what wwe has been doing so I can see why people like it in that regard.

 

[Vanderhook]

If you were alluding to the potential for a takeover, absolutely you would.

See now THAT wouldn't make sense. Why would they be alluding for a potential takeover before the season ends and the winners are announced? Gabriel was under the impression that he might win the competition and go on and be successful, not that he'd be kicked off and pissed about it.

Even those who were fired but were holding back incredible aggressions and hatreds would still show in some fashion that all is not well inside. No matter the size or make of the gas tank, all have a pressure release valve if only to relieve some of that pressure building inside in the event pressure does in fact build.

Everyone reacts differently, my friend. Some people show their anger while others mask it.

The same goes for wrestling characters here. When a heel is to turn face or a face is to turn heel – generally speaking, of course – a build is required, even if that build is marginal. There was no build for Gabriel. He cut a babyface promo like he just retired prior to joining this NXT renegades group. There was no allusion to anything other than the idea that he was going to continue to "work hard" and one day return as an active roster member under the same disposition he left under – a babyface.

Again, it's not that illogical to have Gabriel change his mind and swayed by the other NXT rookies that the whole system was complete bullshit and something should have been done about it.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Agreed. I just think the point needs to be made that the sweeping generalizations that can be taken from your post need to be debunked. The WWE is bad rather often (normally on Mondays...), but not even close to all the time. I think you give them too little credit.

On the othe hand, some people give them too much.

So I'm setting myself up for a never ending argument with everyone who doesn't see the middle ground that I do. At least it'll help boost my post count.

Granted, and I'll do what I can to refine my broader generalizations in the future so as to avoid this kind of banter.

As for not giving the company enough credit... I actually give them a lot of credit, for Smackdown, which I watch regularly. NXT, however, I gave up on mid-way through (a barrel/keg carrying contest – really?) and RAW is a weekly shit show for the most part. RAW is still the flagship show, which is probably why my posts seem so vehement to the company as a whole, and not necessarily toward said particular brand.

1) Gabriel's never dealt with rejection like he did last Tuesday. Who are we to assume how it would wear on him? We know nothing about him.

2) Gabriel showed a moment of what could be considered contemplation when he was on the top rope last night. An intelligent writer might make use of it to establish Gabriel's character and motivations, and maybe even make him one of the early defectors from the faction.

See, this is what I mean when I talk about you lacking vision and creativity. It's not the huge jump that you're pretending it is. Do I think it'll work out this way? Probably not. WWE lack the storytelling ability these days. But at this point, it's a storyline stock full of potential.

But it still doesn't make much sense seeing as he didn't even show so much as a snippet of dejection or anger when being voted off. A small case of disappointment, perhaps, but since when is a single act of disappointment that's followed by an exit-interview done ultra babyface style grounds for a guy to turn in the course of a week? When has this ever been done (successfully) before?

That moment of what could be considered contemplation read to me more as a moment of pride for him. He looked down on Cena and stood slowly to let the world know what was coming and that there wasn't going to be any mercy or so much as a second thought to it. Were that Danielson, I might be inclined to believe it. Hell, if that were Matt Hardy, I'd have been OK with it since there'd actually be a logical story as to why he hit the 450 splash on his pro, but Gabriel of all people hitting it on Cena IMO made as much sense as a shit-flavored lollipop.

But I do. I give every product the credit it deserves based on what it puts out, not my pre-conceived bias. I do the same with posters. I don't seek to shit on anyone. But when they objectively earn it, why shouldn't I?

But this is another issue entirely. Perhaps it's best left for a different thread.

And we'll leave it as such. I have no beef with you personally, so I'd rather not degrade the discussion with ad hominem insults and non sequiturs.

Daniel Bryan has been a babyface maintaining his grace at times while shitting on the WWE establishment at others. Why is it so hard to believe other faces could do the same?

Because Bryan had a build – albeit a marginal one. His frustrations were visible to all for weeks prior to joining this group. He attacked Cole, he did shoot-style interviews talking about the WWE Machine, etc. Bryan was playing a tweener the entire time since he was eliminated. He wasn't a babyface in the same vein as Gabriel IMO, so when Gabriel all of a sudden joined forces, the idea of a renegade NXT faction lost a bit of credibility with me. Like I noted earlier, had this been a group of all the heels from NXT, I'd have no issue with it at all, but to turn a guy like Gabriel heel in literally seven days is insulting to my intelligence as an intelligent fan – something RAW is notorious for doing to me on a weekly basis.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

See now THAT wouldn't make sense. Why would they be alluding for a potential takeover before the season ends and the winners are announced? Gabriel was under the impression that he might win the competition and go on and be successful, not that he'd be kicked off and pissed about it.

I'm not saying allude to the idea of a faction, but at least allude to the fact you are frustrated if the idea is to hinge on your heel turn as being a byproduct of such.

Everyone reacts differently, my friend. Some people show their anger while others mask it.

Granted, but even those who hide aggression and frustrations well still show in some fashion somehow. Everyone requires a release valve. I just don't think it made much sense to have him cut such a babyface promo, only to turn heel a week later.

Again, it's not that illogical to have Gabriel change his mind and swayed by the other NXT rookies that the whole system was complete bullshit and something should have been done about it.

Just seems rushed to me, is all. Were this all heels, I'd have no issue with it, but the fact they recruited all the NXT rookies is a little far-fetched IMO. I'll tune in next week in hopes for an explanation, but I wouldn't be surprised if I never receive one.

 

[manmagoonbt]

Shocked that Danielson didn't do anything to Cole though. He was right there!

They are trying to get the group over as a heel faction. Danielson beating up Cole would have gotten a pop from the crowd. So I am guessing that is why they avoided it.

 

[airvar]

In regards to the Justin Gabriel Discussion;

while it dosen't make much sense now , in all honesty he hasn't been given a chance to explain himself, and none of the NXT rookies have.. Now I admit this is a HUGE hole in (what i think could be) a potentially great (not good, not alright - great) storyline.. and It has the potential to be legendary, but they do need to adress it within the next few weeks.

They can't ignore the fact Justin was a babyface, they can't ignore the fact some of these guys were truly loved by the WWE universe and its hard to understand why they would join this faction.. I think Justin Gabriel and Heath Slater (more-so Gabriel) have a really tough road ahead of them. They have to cut one hell of a promo explaingin why they joined the NXT renegades, and really FULLY develop there heel persona. Hopefully they can step up to the task (along with the creative team).

I'm fine with Justin turning heel, as long as there is a post-turn explanation, and it actually works and makes sense. It dosen't "pretend" like stuff never happened, and he's goning to have to probably cut the promo of his life.. Will be intresting to see to say the least.

 

[Supernova]

It was cool, but I have a feeling it will be more Radicalz than nWo - it'll fade in a couple of weeks and they'll be another faction, which might produce a couple of really good guys but also a couple of enhancement talents.

 

[Coco]

They are trying to get the group over as a heel faction. Danielson beating up Cole would have gotten a pop from the crowd. So I am guessing that is why they avoided it.

Swing and a miss.

Punk and Gallows got taken out by the NXTWo. If they were making sure not to have anyone attacked that might lead to a face pop, wouldn't Punk and Gallows have made a run for it like Cole or wouldn't the voting have been fixed to put Mysterio in the ring with Cena?

 

[3/4 Facelock]

Where was Michael Cole? Now that is what I want to know. Everyone but him got their asses handed to them. Mike Cole. The man who hates the rookies. The mastermind?

Was the Brian Daniels/Cole problem a red herring? To throw fans off? To throw the smarky fools who think "Vince is sooooo predictable" off?

I distinctly remember each rookie saying something close to "this is not the last you'll see of me". Was this some possible forshadowing?

Is this a group of heels? Looks like it.
Is this a group of heels and faces with a common objective? If so, what is that objective?

8 angry guys are a lot to put on RAW. Do you think Smackdown will get a taste of this group? Perhaps the Undertaker got a taste of them already?

How will Bret Hart deal with this? Will McMahon's words ring true? Will he have to make the correct decision over the popular decision? Will Bret walk the path that made Vince McMahon into Mr. McMahon?

Michael Cole FTW, FYL.

 

[Lee]

Finally I've watched the segment, I must say it was pretty good. Whilst we have a few questions to be asked about what's going on with this, I loved it.

First off this is definitely a faction, as was told by their black arm bands with the N in them. Also it seems like they're going for a youth sort of movement who don't give a crap about the rules. Not only did they attack one of the biggest faces, they attacked one of the biggest heels in Punk.

It looked absolutely brutal, yet I can't think of them actually using a weapon, there was no blood and was actually PG. This I loved as it showed that you didn't need those things to be brutal.

The fact there was no commentary was a brilliant idea, you could guage the crowd reaction and it was more like wow WTF is going on, which is better then King and Cole saying it's an outrage.

What about other shows? We'll definitely see them on SD and likely NXT too, it makes sense as 8 guys is too much to put on Raw. It also makes me think that these guys are behind the attack on the Undertaker, they had their feud with Kane .

 

[lilnev2009]

That was an awesome finish to an otherwise dreadful commercial edition of raw. If I was the company writer and I was leading this storyline. I would add two other people to this to make the group more of a threat. Two established guys one who would be the already established mid carder and someone who can lead the group. I would put dolph ziggler in the group right now. Give him the push and make him and heath slater a tag team and have them begin dominating the tag team ranks. and the last one would be..... HHH. This could be the storyline of him returning. U put him with the group and turn him heel. He can be the guy who beat down the undertaker as part of revenge for the undertaker taking out HBK. He could cut a promo to the effect of I sat at home and didn't watch smackdown cause I was tired of seeing cm punk and swagger switch up main events and i didnt watch raw because I was tired of seeing cena and orton fight over the title every week. BUt i was watching NXT and saw guys like me. Guys who would destroy there families to get what they wanted. So I made calls to barrett and told him to be my new protege and get others to follow. something like that so then he would come back and lead them into the future. He would be running a program with kane/undertaker so he wouldnt be after the title. PLus since he missed the first invasion angle this could be him making up for that. If you want to put jericho instead of HHH as the leader then I would be for that as well cause Jericho was Barrett's teacher and he could say he led him to the top and can do the same with the others. If wwe does this correctly then they could establish guys for the next 10 to 15 years. If not.....this could be just another example of a waste of talent

 

[Ferbian]

It was definitely one of the greater endings to RAW in a long time, WWE accomplished a lot through this.

First off they made John seem just a bit strong, by actually having 8 people to take him out.
It made the rookies seem strong for taking out the top dog and successfully ripping through the whole damn set, beating up everybody in their way.
And ultimately, it hyped season 2 of NXT.

This ending was absolutely awesome, and definitely caught my attention, I had hoped that Wade Barrett would've been single handedly established through interfering and booting John Cena, but I can say I was pleasantly surprised by this twist, even if all of them most likely won't pop up on the main roster, it gave them a great "goodbye".

Absolutely great ending is all there needs to be added.

 

[Scott88]

My immediate thought as I watched this Epic ending unfold was "Where in the hell did Michael Cole go?" I believe Michael Cole will be the mastermind of this, if you think about it, he didn't really say too much on the NXT Finale when they showed Daniels at ringside. After ALL the crap they just went through, Cole suddenly said nothing, then tonight when everything and everybody at ringside gets their butts handed to them, Cole gets away? Awesome ending and I can't wait to see what is said tonight!

 

[Vanderhook]

I'm not saying allude to the idea of a faction, but at least allude to the fact you are frustrated if the idea is to hinge on your heel turn as being a byproduct of such.



Granted, but even those who hide aggression and frustrations well still show in some fashion somehow. Everyone requires a release valve. I just don't think it made much sense to have him cut such a babyface promo, only to turn heel a week later.



Just seems rushed to me, is all. Were this all heels, I'd have no issue with it, but the fact they recruited all the NXT rookies is a little far-fetched IMO. I'll tune in next week in hopes for an explanation, but I wouldn't be surprised if I never receive one.

I think that you just need to take a step back and let it unfold before you condemn it. There's plenty of way to make this come off as legitimate and believable, I already briefly listed a few. It definitely doesn't make sense right now, but it's not really supposed to. It's just one of those moments that is meant to shock you and say "WHAT THE FUCK??". I understand that you might be jaded and have little faith that WWE will make something coherent out of this, which is fine. Theres nothing wrong with being a skeptic. However, theres no need to write this off as nonsense when they clearly intended this to a shock segment and theres been no chance for any sort of explanation.

 

[SunnyD]

People believe they are going to split the group between Raw and Smackdown...which means four on one, four on the other.

Only problem is, who would lead the Smackdown group? I would assume Barrett, Otunga, and Danielson should all be on Raw, because they are the most over, and all of their pros are on that show. So those three and Tarver on Raw, and Gabriel, Slater, Sheffield, and Young on Smackdown? What do you think? Smackdown wouldn't have a reliable mouthpiece. They could always put Barrett on Smackdown too, and feud with Kane if NXT is responsible for Taker's attack.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I think that you just need to take a step back and let it unfold before you condemn it. There's plenty of way to make this come off as legitimate and believable, I already briefly listed a few. It definitely doesn't make sense right now, but it's not really supposed to. It's just one of those moments that is meant to shock you and say "WHAT THE FUCK??". I understand that you might be jaded and have little faith that WWE will make something coherent out of this, which is fine. Theres nothing wrong with being a skeptic. However, theres no need to write this off as nonsense when they clearly intended this to a shock segment and theres been no chance for any sort of explanation.

I'm not condemning it, or writing it off as nonsense. Let me preface this entire discussion with that fact ahead of time. Believe me, I'm not. I know I'm a TNA mark, and I know I'm extremely critical of what the WWE produces these days, but with regard to this particular story, I just think there are aspects of it that don't make much sense (yet?). If Gabriel and the Rockstar guy explain their actions in the coming weeks, I might come around full-circle with the idea, but until then I still think there are holes in the ship.

IMO, too many are focused on the size of the new ship that just pulled into Habitual Harbor and not the fact that there are foundational holes in it.

 

[Coco]

People believe they are going to split the group between Raw and Smackdown...which means four on one, four on the other.

Only problem is, who would lead the Smackdown group? I would assume Barrett, Otunga, and Danielson should all be on Raw, because they are the most over, and all of their pros are on that show. So those three and Tarver on Raw, and Gabriel, Slater, Sheffield, and Young on Smackdown? What do you think? Smackdown wouldn't have a reliable mouthpiece. They could always put Barrett on Smackdown too, and feud with Kane if NXT is responsible for Taker's attack.

First of all, I think they'll be smart enough to send one of the more credible members to SmackDown to lead that half of the faction if this is indeed the route they intend to travel. I expect that to be either Otunga or Danielson. I mean it's not as though they haven't stashed major names on SmackDown before. It's also not as though they're shy about sending people to SmackDown to enhance their reputation on the B-show, something I could easily see happening with Danielson. It's all just speculation at this point, but I don't see them throwing all three of the "big" names in the faction on Raw if they're going to split them up.

That said, there are fine mic workers in the remaining five. Tarver has been criminally underrated because of the angle they gave him on NXT, but I see dollar signs on him (more-so than Otunga). Sheffield has also shown signs of being silky smooth on the stick. They're both trustworthy as mouthpieces on the B-show should it come to that.

 

[Uncle Sam]

The most shocking part about the RAW ending was them tearing the ring apart. I knew there was a thin layer of wood in there somewhere! Mick Foley told me, and I just fucking knew it! It's like being let in on the magicians' secrets. Incredible.

And was it just me or did Punk try to save Cena at one point? Little tear in my eye.

 

[Deexter Jorgan]

The most shocking part about the RAW ending was them tearing the ring apart. I knew there was a thin layer of wood in there somewhere! Mick Foley told me, and I just fucking knew it! It's like being let in on the magicians' secrets. Incredible.

And was it just me or did Punk try to save Cena at one point? Little tear in my eye.

I saw it as more Punk attempting to take the eight men on because they cheap shotted him early, i doubt it was in any way an attempt to save cena.

I cant believe how much they destroyed the place though and Michael cole runing out like that with no interception makes me believe that he has something to do with the group.

I see this stable as more of a in between stable that has no brand to call home as of yet, they may start to target each brand seperatly but i highly doubt it at the moment, I would rather see them lead Barrett to the WWE championship at this point and then tackle the WHC with the second leader of the group which at this point IMO seems to be Bryan, I may be wrong but as they where walking off Bryan was the first to leave, and Barrett was the first to lead the charge, until then we shall see how this all plays out.

 

[Moose70nyc]

This is my first official creation of a thread on here, as I hope to be more of a regular on here, since I am on this website almost everyday. With that being said, I as well as many, many others, believe that this was one of the best endings in quite some time for Monday Night Raw. With what was a pretty lackadaisical show for the most part, the last 15 minutes made up for a 2.5 hour mess, with a few decent, but very short matches.

Which now brings me to the NWO invasion style attack. This was an excellent cliffhanger, which SHOULD boost the ratings. They took out everything and everyone in sight. Ring announcers, timekeepers, announcers (except for Cole), refs, and security. They destroyed the ring, ringropes, barricades, ripped up the padding on the floor, threw the chairs, flipped the announcers table on Lawler, etc etc....I think I covered everything.

Well moving on, the creative staff has done some stupid stuff with storylines in the past few years, and done some great angles, so thisa can go either way, but they have an oppurtunity to make this one of the best angles in recent memory, and can boost ratings for ALL THREE SHOWS, if they do this correctly. I know we have creative minds of our own, and we have come up with better ideas then the creative minds that make us watch WWE tv. So what would you all like to see done with this angle, cuz frankly there is a world of potential here.

 

[EliteDiva]

DJImpact1,

Out of all the really "disgusting" and most "disturbing" things that had happened in the attitude era this tiny segment has to be the one that turns you
off the product?
I mean sure the segment took way too long, but I surely know that the creative knows that every single one of their "buisness desicions" wouldn't be approved by everyone like you pertaining to this case.

The WWE/F is concentrating of what the majority of their viewer's want and that is the Attitude Era.

 

[Vash21]

Bravo for that smackdown of Djimpact1!

The entire time I was reading through his posts all I could think of was the Vince JR prostate skit, and the Kane HHH dead girlfriend rape thing, and all of the damn bikini this and bikini that, and Easy E's own Hot Lesbian Action, and THIS turns you off to the WWE product??

I am the average everyday red blooded american male, and if they wanted to put Maryse in some HLA, i think I could manage to sit through it, but that kinda stuff isn't needed or warranted. I am not a big fan of blood either. if a guy gets cut on accident oh well, but blading is a thing of the past.

It was chaos pure and simple and made these guys legit, they need to follow it up with some more serious ass whippin. Everyone even Vince and Bret should be fair game. Keep the pros out of the group, and make Barrett a monster in the ring, but let the NXT guys cheat to get him the title. As others have said this thing can be money for months maybe even years. This could be the NWO all over again, although you won't have that egomaniac Hogan running everything.

The opportunities for a Daniels Barret confrontation, and out of his freaking mind Michael Cole leading this group, and the elimination of the Undertaker are endless.

If Cole is involved make him out of his damn mind, I mean just have him be the nutjob with a pitbull on the leash. An eventually bring J.R. back over the course of this storyline. Bring Austin in to screw over the NXT once or twice, have maybe the Rock come in for some kind of limited something.

This thing is money, if they don't screw it up.

Oh an DjImpact1, don't worry buddy TNA is still on Thursday nights where it belongs.

As a former hardcore fan turned very casual fan turned really interested fan I will be tuning into Raw next Monday.

Oh an for those saying that Gabriel and Slater will be hard to watch as heels, I can tell ya this in this economy when your dreams have been hacked from you, you would be willing to do just about anything. Remember the Black Sox?

An one last thing and I will shut the hell up, why in the hell would one or two guys run down to save Cena? To get your ass handed to you? If I was Mark henry or Evan Bourne I wouldn't have went anywhere near that ring. It may be silly to assume that everyone had bolted from the arena before the main event, but it is not silly to believe that some of the ones who gave a crap about Cena had already left and there weren't enough left to do anything other than get their skull busted open by the lunatics in the ring.

Money if they don't screw it up.

Peace.

 

[hurleyworld4]

Why does Michael Cole have to be the mastermind? I would be perfectly happy with the 8 being a rouge group with a driving sense of camaraderie rather than an outside leader steering the helm. If they are so ticked off at the WWE, why would they be led by a crony like Cole? I think Cole saw what was about to unfold and got the hell out of there. Let Danielson and Barret age in their prospective roles. As has been said, they are great on the stick, and both are oozing charisma. Let them do it. These guys have been either with FCW or the independents for years. They can handle the promos and mic work themselves. As I've read, Vince, Michael Hayes, and Nipple H (love that nickname for Stephanie) were thrilled with how everything fell into place. They have faith in the nXtWo and their abilities to carry this out, maybe we should too. Cole should stay where he is at his (mediocre) best, behind the announce table. The light should shine on Barret, Danielson, Otunga, Gabriel, Slater, Young, Sheffield, and Tarver (had to remember Mike's last name.) Let these 8 get the exposure; they were given the last 15 minutes of Raw just for that purpose.