*MERGED* [OFFICIAL] The Nexus General Discussion thread

[Diomenas]

I think it is an awesome concept. I have missed an nWo style stable for a long time.

it'd be even better if their logo was something like this:

 

[Jack-Hammer]

It was a fantastic segment, no doubt about that, and it's really what save the show from last night. Raw could have been an epic show last night, but they must've had an attack of acid reflux or something. They've improved a lot this year and they've avoided the kind of crap we saw last night almost this entire year. Ah well, I guess every show has to be bad now and again.

Anyhow, the invasion of the NXT Rookies was a complete surprise and I immediately had flashbacks of an nWo type of invasion. The symbolism of destroying the ringside area, the ring itself and John Cena was mouthwateringly succulent to behold and I'm anxious to see what they do with this. I'm expecting a much better effort from Raw next week as it's the go home Raw for the Fatal 4-Way ppv and I can't wait to see the NXT Invasion discussed on the Season II premiere of NXT tonight.

 

[streicher187]

It would be cool if they had Cole know about it and the whole bryan thing was a sideshow to throw people off. This would allow cole to become heal announcer..

I don't want them to be the ones who attacked taker though, I would love for it to be the masked kane and we see him strugle with himself until the mask goes back on and he starts destroying people for a while..

 

[CabanaBoomBoom514]

For the first in a very long time, Monday Night Raw actually surprised me. When I saw Barret come out I thought,"Making a statement" thing I, guess. But then I see Tarver, Daniel, etc, it was all from there. Though I'm a fan of John Cena, this was a breath of fresh air for me. I hope they do a great program with these 8.

ALL HAIL THE "NXTWO"

 

[Morpheus101]

Morpheus, I am REALLY to believe EVERY wrestler was gone from the arena at that time? Any of us who have been to a live event knows most all of the roster that was present last night was still there until the whole show was done & over with. The whole idea that NOBODY comes out when a massive beatdown occurs has gotten extremely old over the years...I'm sure the camera guys were the last of the unbeaten employees left running the show too, right?

It's fine that you (and others) didn't like the ending, or the potential direction that WWE is going in. It's not for everyone, but for me, it was a breath of fresh air (hence the excitement).

However, (to you and others) don't knock people for getting excited about something that hasn't been seen in a long time. We are not just "marks" and there is nothing wrong with actually being able to be excited (for once) about something WWE did, when we've had years of Cena/Orton/Batista and years of "divas" and years of Horswoggle-type nonsense and a host of boring angles. Let's face it, WWE programming has been stale for many years, so this now injects a completely new bunch of wrestlers, opens up the possibilities for a myriad of new feuds and basically turns the WWE's world upside down (this badly needed to be done).

WWE doesn't have to completely move away from being 'PG' for this angle to work. There doesn't need to be any blood, or multiple chair shots to the head, etc. What happened last night wasn't anything overly violent or disturbing, IMO.

 

[Dave]

I am growing increasingly convinced that Michael Cole had something to do with this. The fact that he got out of there so damn quick could be explained by the fact that he was likely to get his head kicked in but I think there is much more to it than that. Given the history between Michael Cole and Daniel Bryan, you would think that Bryan would have made a B-line towards Cole when they started going after all of the crew. Yet, they went for Matt Striker and King first, leaving enough time for Cole to get out of there. Also, there was enough people there to corner him if they wanted to, yet he got out of there with no harm done.

That being said, I would like to see something with Michael Cole. Maybe he could be the mastermind behind all of this and finally, finally get him over as a heel commentator. As for the ending of Raw, it was incredible! I had turned off the stream and was going to bed until I saw what everyone was saying in the LD and switched it back on to see a world of carnage that was unleashed on Raw. After watching it all again, I am only more steadfast in the claim that this was one of the best endings to a WWE Raw in recent history. I am of the impression that Raw has needed something like this to kick-start it after the buzz from WrestleMania has died down. Now that they have started this faction, you know that the next few weeks are going to be fucking intense and you could even see a rival faction being created.

The best thing that the WWE have done is create some intrigue in their programming again. I never watch NXT any more but I will be watching it tonight for sure. Can anyone say that they wont be after that ending to Raw? Congratulations to the WWE creative.

 

[kingk12]

OMG I think I know where they are going with this, NXT vs. Legacy Sons. Think about this Ted Dibiase, Husky Harris, USO's, Michael McGuillicutty, Hart Dynasty, Goldust, Primo, Cody Rhodes vs. NXT guys for the right to be the top guns. The NXT guys can argue their dads weren't famous wrestlers and they had to work their way to the top where as Dibiase and the Fortunate Sons have their parents legacy. This would be awesome if they did this becasue they can create a whole new wrestling scene in the WWE and it would be unique leaving different legacies for the 2nd generation wrestlers than their fathers.

 

[Widdows]

It was certainly a fantastic ending to Raw. I haven't seen a great ending like this since Orton RKO'd Dusty Rhodes whilst Cody was there.
But the key with this is follow-up.
I was expecting more from Evan Bourne this week, but the WWE just killed him.
Also interesting in Barrett's backstage interview with Savanah that something will be achieved next week that never before has done. An English WWE Champion maybe?

 

[BillAlfonso]

Bill Alfonso just wants to tell you that I'll no longer be among you because I'm going to kill myself for missing the ending to the most talked about episode of Raw in years. Why, Obama, why? This is the last time I'm going to be bored with Raw and finish my offseason schedules on Madden NFL and NCAA Football 10. When I came back, all I saw was John Cena in the ring all fucked up and the ring was all fucked up and the outside of the ring was all fucked up and the announcers were all fucked up and the crowd looked like their minds were all fucked up. And I missed it, now, that's fucked up. Also, you guys think that they may be the reason that the Undertaker's all fucked up?

 

[Adam08]

I have nothing to say that wasn't already said. But the ending of Raw was really cool out of know where unexpected stuff I liked it. Now where does wwe go from here is the real question. Hopefully in a good direction I will tune in tonight on NXT to see what happens.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Also, you guys think that they may be the reason that the Undertaker's all fucked up?

If these guys are all staying on Raw, then no, but personally i think that half of them should get signed to SD. If they do end up on SD, then i feel that putting them in the Kane/Taker/Attack angle would be the best way to continue their development while having them on the main roster, and when Taker comes back they can further it even more.

I do NOT want this to have ANYTHING to do with Michael Cole. In fact, I don't want ANYTHING related to wrestling to feature Michael Cole, but sadly that's not my decision.

I haven't seen Raw, but when i'm home i'll definitely check out what happened at the end of the show, and might have some more input once i've seen it, but based purely on the desription of how it went down, this sounds like one of the more shocking and interesting wrestling swerves on free TV, in the last 5+ years.

Plus, here's something for HHH to do if they don't decide to just carry on the Sheamus fued (although they probably will)

What doesn't make sense to me, is the timing. I guess they kind of had to do something immediately after NXT finished, considering that '1' of them has been 'hired' now, but it's mid month, right before a PPV. Where exactly are these guys going to fit on the card, if at all? Or is Cena just going to win the 4way and all the rookies simply jump him again and we start properly from there?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Let's not get carried away. It may feel like years to you, but it hasn't been years. Taker-Michaels, Michaels-Jericho, Cena-Batista, and so-on haven't exactly insulted anyone's intelligence from where I sit.

And in that same time, Hornswoggle/Khali, Hornswoggle/McMahon, Hornswoggle/Chavo, Hornswoggle/Finlay, Hornswoggle/DX.

I'm not just referring to story lines, man – look at the show last night from an objective POV. Look at the "choices" that were given to the fans in the first ever "Viewers Choice" RAW. Yeah... that wasn't scripted at all. No one on earth could have predicted that Santino/Kozlov would have a dance-off, or that the crowd would vote in the "mystery opponent" who's shadow performed Matt Hardy's taunt, or that the fans would vote Kane in to face Sheamus after they had an altercation minutes before back-stage, or that John Morrison would be voted in as R-Truth's partner considering they were just a tag-team not a few months ago, etc. etc. That's the shit that insults my intelligence.

Outside of the NXT invasion, the only entertaining quality of RAW last night IMO was the promo the Miz cut about how stupid the "WWE Universe" is, because it bordered heavily on reality.

Seven guys who were going to be tossed out on their ear because of this NXT experiment while yesterday's developmental prospects got unconditional call-ups to the main shows aren't going to be angry enough to do something about it?

Yeah, okay.

Of which a number were booked and bred as mega baby-faces a la Justin Gabriel? Yeah – makes no more sense to have Gabriel or whatever that Guitar Hero Rockstar guy's name is turn heel on the stop of a dime then it did to have Anderson do the same in TNA. The fans praising this illogical bullshit are the same who condemned the Anderson turn in TNA – that spells hypocrisy.

What you think is believable seems to hold very little weight as you simply lack the imagination to make anything work.

I lack the imagination to make anything work? How dare you insinuate that I have no claims to creativity or the ability to suspend my disbelief. I wonder – exactly what basis are you working on that you can make such a bold statement about someone you know so very little about – or is this just your way of sneaking a jab into an otherwise porous argument to as to do your best to legitimize it by getting one over on me?

Trust me: If they went with something as bold as tonight's ending, they can surely piece together a decent motive.

And now I wait eagerly to be proven wrong next week when we go back to business as usual (as you pointed out, tonight's show overall didn't exactly inspire confidence).

That's not the point, man. The point is that it was done on the drop of a dime, and logically made very little sense.

All of a sudden John Cena doesn't have a friend in the world and no one from the back would dare come out to help him?

All of a sudden the ultra baby-face "rookies" Justin Gabriel, Skip Sheffield, etc. all angered with being eliminated from a competition turn on the company that offered them the potential for a job because they want revenge? Where was the foundation for this in Gabriel's exit interview? Did I miss it? What I heard was more along the likes of a baby face exit when he spoke about how he'd just keep trying to win a job – certainly no prelude to "I'm going to snap in the coming weeks and join a renegade group who will take over" by any means.

 

[marylandman301]

This was just plain gold... Whoever came up with this, was pure genius.
Especially how unpredictable it was. The whole 2 1/2 hours of raw was just horrible. I was about to turn the channel and get ready for ROH on HDnet at 11:00, and as I had the remote in my hand, I was thinking that Wade Barrett was going to confront John Cena because he won that title shot on NXT, blah blah blah..........then............BOOM all the other NXT guys came out and NOBODY and I mean NOBODY saw this coming. Good job by WWE for a change. This was simply GOLD. Best ending to raw in years since HBK superkick to Hogan. I hope they dont screw this up.

 

[airvar]

And in that same time, Hornswoggle/Khali, Hornswoggle/McMahon, Hornswoggle/Chavo, Hornswoggle/Finlay, Hornswoggle/DX.

I'm not just referring to story lines, man – look at the show last night from an objective POV. Look at the "choices" that were given to the fans in the first ever "Viewers Choice" RAW. Yeah... that wasn't scripted at all. No one on earth could have predicted that Santino/Kozlov would have a dance-off, or that the crowd would vote in the "mystery opponent" who's shadow performed Matt Hardy's taunt, or that the fans would vote Kane in to face Sheamus after they had an altercation minutes before back-stage, or that John Morrison would be voted in as R-Truth's partner considering they were just a tag-team not a few months ago, etc. etc. That's the shit that insults my intelligence.

Outside of the NXT invasion, the only entertaining quality of RAW last night IMO was the promo the Miz cut about how stupid the "WWE Universe" is, because it bordered heavily on reality.



Of which a number were booked and bred as mega baby-faces a la Justin Gabriel? Yeah – makes no more sense to have Gabriel or whatever that Guitar Hero Rockstar guy's name is turn heel on the stop of a dime then it did to have Anderson do the same in TNA. The fans praising this illogical bullshit are the same who condemned the Anderson turn in TNA – that spells hypocrisy.



I lack the imagination to make anything work? How dare you insinuate that I have no claims to creativity or the ability to suspend my disbelief. I wonder – exactly what basis are you working on that you can make such a bold statement about someone you know so very little about – or is this just your way of sneaking a jab into an otherwise porous argument to as to do your best to legitimize it by getting one over on me?



That's not the point, man. The point is that it was done on the drop of a dime, and logically made very little sense.

All of a sudden John Cena doesn't have a friend in the world and no one from the back would dare come out to help him?

All of a sudden the ultra baby-face "rookies" Justin Gabriel, Skip Sheffield, etc. all angered with being eliminated from a competition turn on the company that offered them the potential for a job because they want revenge? Where was the foundation for this in Gabriel's exit interview? Did I miss it? What I heard was more along the likes of a baby face exit when he spoke about how he'd just keep trying to win a job – certainly no prelude to "I'm going to snap in the coming weeks and join a renegade group who will take over" by any means.

Without a doubt they REALLY tried to "presuade" the viewer to choose EXACTLY what they had planned ( though I don't think they wanted Hornswoggle & Kahli vs The Harts)

As for the Face Rookies turning Heel, Personally I like it. Sure Justin Gabriel gave a babyface interview, for a farewell, and was a babyface on the show,, but turning the "group " heel works. It really dose, they all got together and decided they wanted to show the WWE they were worth a rooster spot, they were "better" and they could take over..

I didn't like the fact they didn't have ANYBODY run down to make the save, but that can be said pretty much anytime. I mean hell CM Punk is "ending jeff hardys career" for like 3 weeks in a row every week on smackdown untill they FINALLY had someone run in.. Its an old school beatdown, you can say that about anybody, like how come nobody came down to stop Edge from trying to deystroy Ortons Seperated shoulder with a steel chair after there match?
and in all fairness CM Punk did attempt to make the save for john Cena, he just got his ass kicked too, along with serena and luke gallows. I think it was meant to show this new group as invading the WWE, Not just a new heel power-trip.. They want revenge, they are out to take out the current rooster, no matter who they are.. They are esentially a tweener group, that has a TON of heat right now so will be considered heels.. We honestly don't know much, or why they did it yet though, we can only speculate, its not like anyone cut a promo about it after!

 

[SuperKick36]

I really don't get what was so "great" about that ending. Please, someone explain WHY it was amazing? It was just unorganized destruction, with this vague idea that they're making a new group, as some of you are calling it the "NXTWO".

WHO are these guys? WHY should I care about them? After they began attacking Cena, I flipped the channel to watch NatGeo. It was sooo predictable.

THEN, on top of that, how come NO one came out? BOTH the smackdown AND raw rosters were backstage! What's their excuse? Next week is Michael Cole going to say, "Both rosters had already packed up and left the building..."

Look, I'm not tearing anyone down for thinking it was "the best Raw ending EVER", because it's an opinion. I just want someone to give me a better explanation than "ZOMGZ BEST NDING EVERZ! NXT GUYS TAKING OVER! I WAS SO SHCOKED!" (Because that's all I'm really getting).

The ONLY thing that interested me SLIGHTLY last night is the idea that MAYBE (as some have already mentioned before) these are the guys that attacked 'Taker. Then half of them stay on Raw, and the other half go to Smackdown.

But guys, look at it this way: With this group of NXT guys coming in, there are WAY too many people on both rosters, and then we got the new season of NXT starting too. There's way to many people for me to pay attention (and care).

 

[sikkbones]

anyone think we will get an established star turn and join NXT and if so which one?

of course, it could always be goldberg or lesnar... but that would be stupid...

my guess... Cm punk.

 

[Vanderhook]

I'm sorry but if you can't imagine why the NXT rookies turned heel you don't have any imagination. Sorry "It's Damn Real!", but I'm also gonna have to dare insinuate that you have problems suspending your disbelief.

NXT is a show that borders on breaking kayfabe. You've already seen it with Daniel Bryan reacting against the "WWE Machine" into turning him into something he's not and forcing gimmicks and name changes and other stupid crap upon him. The motivation for this new villianous behavior can stem from that sort of sentiment. All the NXT rookies have had to put up with having to do everything the WWE says only for what to happen? They just get tossed aside and fade into obscurity. They don't want that crap and they want to make a name for themselves by doing that THEY want to do. Gabriel, Slater and all the others were faces because WWE management made them into something they weren't, a la Daniel Bryan.

Seems like a pretty believable explanation, and it looks to be the route that they are taking with this. No insane logic needed to make it work.

 

[Mudd2010]

Hopefully, seeing as how they attacked not only Cena but Punk and Gallows as well that they don't just become a generic heel stable. They should still be against all the wwe, faces and heels. Danielson should continue his feud with The Miz, since I doubt that they would all of a sudden be friends now. Otunga(even though I don't care for him too much) could start something with R-Truth and possibly put himself into the US title picture. Obviously the face pros such as Christian and Matt Hardy would object to what their rookies did so that could occupy Slater and Gabriel. Sheffield could take exception for William Regal calling him and idiot and Darren Young could have something started with CM Punk. Have all the rookies have at least a mini feud with their pro(except of course for Michael Tarver since his pro Carlito was released). Hell, if they want to do this storyline right have Wade turn on Jericho, to really put this angle over since that would be shocking in itself that he would on the guy that supported him through out NXT. Barrett did talk about on Raw that next week we will see something that has never been seen before in the wwe. That could possibly mean that the first British WWE champion will be crowned and I'm very excited for it.

 

[Coco]

And in that same time, Hornswoggle/Khali, Hornswoggle/McMahon, Hornswoggle/Chavo, Hornswoggle/Finlay, Hornswoggle/DX.

I'm not just referring to story lines, man – look at the show last night from an objective POV. Look at the "choices" that were given to the fans in the first ever "Viewers Choice" RAW. Yeah... that wasn't scripted at all. No one on earth could have predicted that Santino/Kozlov would have a dance-off, or that the crowd would vote in the "mystery opponent" who's shadow performed Matt Hardy's taunt, or that the fans would vote Kane in to face Sheamus after they had an altercation minutes before back-stage, or that John Morrison would be voted in as R-Truth's partner considering they were just a tag-team not a few months ago, etc. etc. That's the shit that insults my intelligence.

Look, shitbird: I'm just playing by the inane rules established in the post of your's I originally quoted. You said it was the first time in years that they gave you something that didn't insult your intelligence. Did I claim the product was perfect? Not once. In another thread, I squated and took a nice, healthy shit all over the majority of last night's show because it was just as awful as you make it out to be. But to generalize to the point where nothing in the last few years hasn't insulted your intelligence is just the usual blind anti-WWE sentiment that I've come to expect from you. It weakens your arguments as a whole when you take things to such obviously untrue extremes. Try a little bit of fucking objectivity one of these times. It goes a long way.

K'thanks.

Of which a number were booked and bred as mega baby-faces a la Justin Gabriel? Yeah – makes no more sense to have Gabriel or whatever that Guitar Hero Rockstar guy's name is turn heel on the stop of a dime then it did to have Anderson do the same in TNA. The fans praising this illogical bullshit are the same who condemned the Anderson turn in TNA – that spells hypocrisy.

Anderson's turn came out of nowhere. Meanwhile, you have guys who expected to be given a contract being voted off of nXt, a system that can be easily viewed as flawed. Their turns have a tangible catalyst. No hypocrisy about it.

I lack the imagination to make anything work? How dare you insinuate that I have no claims to creativity or the ability to suspend my disbelief. I wonder – exactly what basis are you working on that you can make such a bold statement about someone you know so very little about – or is this just your way of sneaking a jab into an otherwise porous argument to as to do your best to legitimize it by getting one over on me?

I'm basing it on the fact that you lack the imagination to make one of the most straightfoward, unfuckwithable angles in recent memory work. What more proof do I need to make such a claim?

It's not about getting one over on you. It's just about pointing out how wrong you are.

That's not the point, man. The point is that it was done on the drop of a dime, and logically made very little sense.

You're mistaking something surprising for something that doesn't make any sense. Give it time to pan out and let them have a chance to fill in the blanks before you make such broad statements.

If it doesn't make sense, I'll be the first to say so. But as of now, they haven't delivered a motive that doesn't make sense. So therefore, I'm willing to assume they have one that does.

If it's anything like the motivation behind Edge's turn a few weeks ago, I'll be the first to shit on it. But to jump on the storyline for not making sense at this point is jumping the gun.

All of a sudden John Cena doesn't have a friend in the world and no one from the back would dare come out to help him?

While I defend the move being made to secure the employment of some of the eight men who they've spent weeks and months establishing (a bold move needed given how much nXt has altered the farm system), the segment certainly wasn't perfect. Explaining this away is an issue, but that doesn't bleed over to the fact that the rookies can have very logical motivations for what they did.

All of a sudden the ultra baby-face "rookies" Justin Gabriel, Skip Sheffield, etc. all angered with being eliminated from a competition turn on the company that offered them the potential for a job because they want revenge? Where was the foundation for this in Gabriel's exit interview? Did I miss it? What I heard was more along the likes of a baby face exit when he spoke about how he'd just keep trying to win a job – certainly no prelude to "I'm going to snap in the coming weeks and join a renegade group who will take over" by any means.

Last night's storyline broke the usual formula we've come to expect on Raw, so why are you assuming it follows the usual pro-wrestling rule of "everything has to occur on-screen or it doesn't matter"?

A company who wants loyal followers did a "good job" by being so ignorant with their nonsense-filled storyline, that it drove this almost 2-decade fan away? Man, I'm glad you're not my business partner! Strength in numbers is good against one man? I think it shows a true measure of a man (wrestler in this case) when you have to rely on 7 other guys to help you make a physical statement...it shows you're absolutely WEAK on your own!

I'm surprised a two-decade fan feels the need to stamp this as a "nonsense-filled" storyline so quickly when this is the same company that just gave us Ted DiBiase and IRS kidnapping a member of the A-Team and last year did a pig-pen match with Vickie Guerrero and Santino and followed it up with the gratuitous verbal lashing of Vickie by Edge.

I could go on and on, but how does it make sense that this would be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

Also, an eight man beatdown doesn't show weakness. It doesn't exhibit strength, but to make the leap from that to weakness is a mistake.

If WWE wants to put disturbing television on and drive people like myself away (who have spent thousands of dollars on their product over the years), then I guess they've accomplished getting their reaction. I'm 28, and though I'm ending my support of their product, I can be sure that when my fiance and I have children in the next few years, as they get older, WWE will NOT be an option to watch on TV until their teenage years. Looks like it will be more than just their loss of 1 fan, but a loss of a potential family spending $$ on their product. I mean, that is the driving force behind McMahon, isn't it? Money?

So a two-decade fan who sat through Bossman crashing Show's father's funeral, Steve Austin and Triple H beating up Lita, and Triple H fucking a corpse is suddenly too soft for last night's segment?

No, I'm not buying it.

What was "brilliant" about having losing competetors tear apart the symbolic stage that real wrestlers (who WRESTLE) perform on? I don't see how 8 guys on 1 and a dismantling of the set helps them to "up" their game. Did the complete opposite for me.

They have every right to be bitter considering call-ups used to go straight to the main roster while they have to jump through hoops on nXt while seven perfectly qualified prospects and thrown out on their ass. An invasion to the joke that is the current Monday Night Raw upsets the waters and gives immediate credibility to some new blood. Not to mention that, judging by activity on message boards, it has people talking.

What could be bad about all the positive word of mouth this is generating?

Oh, I'm sorry. It's because what they did disrespected the stage that real wrestlers like Khali and Hornswoggle wrestle on, right?

L O fucking L.

Morpheus, I am REALLY to believe EVERY wrestler was gone from the arena at that time? Any of us who have been to a live event knows most all of the roster that was present last night was still there until the whole show was done & over with. The whole idea that NOBODY comes out when a massive beatdown occurs has gotten extremely old over the years...I'm sure the camera guys were the last of the unbeaten employees left running the show too, right?

Nobody running out to save someone from a mutli-man beatdown hasn't been an issue for you over the last two-decades. Exactly what was different about last night?

Kimbfun, "disturbed" is a perfect word to describe this Attitude-era wannabe segment.

Do I need to post actual Attitude Era segments for you to realize how stupid this statement is?

Not everying with a little bit of "edge" to it is senseless or disturbed.

On the other hand, I'm happy that the last few years have done what they've needed to do: Resensitize people so they can be shocked again. Thank God we're finally there.

It might've been the worst wrestling you've watched because it had absolutely NOTHING to do with the sport/art of wrestling.

On the same night as Edge's sensless attack on Orton while Orton's arm was in a sling?

On the same night that a member of the A-Team was kidnapped?

On the same night that Kozlov and Santino had a dance off?

Really? Really?

Disappointing to expect "wrestling" & end up getting a non-racial Rodney King-like beatdown from a company who's second word in its name is "Wrestling".

Considering you're a two-decade long fan, I'd expect you not to be worked so easily. That look more like an actual wrestling angle than the majority of last night's show.

You want a damn good ending? I remember WCW being bought-out by Vince, and EVERYONE (including myself) marked-out at Shane McMahon appearing on Nitro to claim he actually bought WCW. The SON of the owner of WWE buying out the competition right from under his dad...holy shit. Will Nitro live-on? What will happen to the wresters? THAT was a moment that any true fan can appreciate,

It was a non-wrestling segment between one non-wrestler (the owner) and another (his son).

Why aren't we ranting and raving about the second "W" in this case?

because it delivered shock without sacrificing the validity of any of the talent,

What talent's validity was sacrificed? The rookies got instant heat and Cena, Punk, and Gallows didn't lose any credibility.

What exactly are you talking about?

and still had the possibility of consequences we haven't seen before.

Yeah, last night's segment is definitely a sign of stale television to come..

I'm to believe THAT is on the same level as 8 second-rate wrestlers beating down company employees and tearing apart the ring? Get real.

You're not smart.

Buh-bye.

 

[Vanderhook]

AS far as the whole "no one came out" argument..

There were 8 jacked guys in the ring on a god damned rampage. Would YOU go out there and try to stop them, even if you were built by Mark Henry? Hell I wouldn't. I'm not trying to get myself killed.

 

[Rayne]

Wow. After the first two hours, forty minutes of that RAW, I was pretty solidly convinced that the WWE was no longer capable of surprising me in any meaningful fashion. I know what they're doing with The Miz, but I still laughed when he promo'd about how poor the night had been up to that point.

And then- wow.

First, notice the choices- all three options for Cena were Smackdown stars. That was very clever of the writers; no matter who was chosen, a top Raw star and a top Smackdown star would take a beatdown. That makes it so this isn't a Raw angle; it's a WWE angle, and there hasn't been one of those in a long time.

Up until last night, I didn't really give two shits about NXT. I can watch people run around carrying kegs on any Friday or Saturday night. This made NXT meaningful to me. Much like the days of the nWo, there's a "bad guy" force that has good-ish characters in it (but still bad enough to be credible heels- Justin Gabriel, I'm looking at you), and there's a "good guy" force with definite heels in it. There's a possibility for texture within the storylines, and that's been missing for a long time.

Now... if they waste this all on some stupid Season 1 vs. Season 2 feud, that might make me crazy.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Look, shitbird: I'm just playing by the inane rules established in the post of your's I originally quoted. You said it was the first time in years that they gave you something that didn't insult your intelligence. Did I claim the product was perfect? Not once. In another thread, I squated and took a nice, healthy shit all over the majority of last night's show because it was just as awful as you make it out to be. But to generalize to the point where nothing in the last few years hasn't insulted your intelligence is just the usual blind anti-WWE sentiment that I've come to expect from you. It weakens your arguments as a whole when you take things to such obviously untrue extremes. Try a little bit of fucking objectivity one of these times. It goes a long way.

K'thanks.

Wrong. I said – and I quote – "Glad to see the WWE's finally given fans something that doesn't insult their intelligence for WHAT FEELS LIKE the first time in the last two or three years. Verbatim.

To generalize to the point where nothing in the last few years hasn't insulted my intelligence was never the intention – but the emphasis was important because 90% of the show last night was childish garbage designed to entertain the mildly ******ed – an intelligent fan watching that show for creative genius is the equivalent to an English major reading Green Eggs and Ham for an exercise in vocabulary.

Anderson's turn came out of nowhere. Meanwhile, you have guys who expected to be given a contract being voted off of nXt, a system that can be easily viewed as flawed. Their turns have a tangible catalyst. No hypocrisy about it.

Anderson's turn came over the course of a month. It was fast, but made a little sense if you are willing to accept that they rushed it. Meanwhile, I have guys who expected to win a competition as a means to earn a contract being voted off of NXT turning heel because they lost – yes – on one hand it works, but at the very same time it makes little sense when you have guys like Gabriel cut babyface promos on their way out. At least allude to it by having them seem somewhat dejected and frustrated, no?

I'm basing it on the fact that you lack the imagination to make one of the most straightfoward, unfuckwithable angles in recent memory work. What more proof do I need to make such a claim?

It's not about getting one over on you. It's just about pointing out how wrong you are.

See above. If it's so straight forward, why was there no prelude? If it's so 'unfuckwithable', why does the logic of having a guy like Gabriel cut a babyface promo before being voted off make no sense when he comes back a week later as a heel being booed for performing a finisher that for weeks prior had the crowd cheering for him?

It obviously is about getting one over on me since this is now the third time in this response you've insulted me directly as opposed to simply discussing this objectively – you know, that thing you begged me to do up there, but don't do yourself. Defined: hypocrisy.

You're mistaking something surprising for something that doesn't make any sense. Give it time to pan out and let them have a chance to fill in the blanks before you make such broad statements.

If it doesn't make sense, I'll be the first to say so. But as of now, they haven't delivered a motive that doesn't make sense. So therefore, I'm willing to assume they have one that does.

If it's anything like the motivation behind Edge's turn a few weeks ago, I'll be the first to shit on it. But to jump on the storyline for not making sense at this point is jumping the gun.

While I defend the move being made to secure the employment of some of the eight men who they've spent weeks and months establishing (a bold move needed given how much nXt has altered the farm system), the segment certainly wasn't perfect. Explaining this away is an issue, but that doesn't bleed over to the fact that the rookies can have very logical motivations for what they did.

I just gave you a number of reasons why it makes no sense. To have the heels in the group do so would make sense to me, but a guy like Gabriel who cut a face promo on his way out joining the group out of the blue makes no sense. If this were Tarver, Otunga, etc. all upset over being cast out and all heels, I could see the logic, but to have a babyface get this upset that he turns heel on the drop of a dime is a logical farce.

Last night's storyline broke the usual formula we've come to expect on Raw, so why are you assuming it follows the usual pro-wrestling rule of "everything has to occur on-screen or it doesn't matter"?

Granted, but it didn't make sense to me regardless. How many times do I have to bring up Gabriel as the crux here?

 

[Vanderhook]

Gabriel cutting a face promo on his way out makes sense.

Say you are getting fired from your job, are you going to go on a tirade on your boss? A lot of people wouldn't and would act professionally, regardless if they felt it was unfair or not. Let's say a couple days later that that same guy meets up with a bunch of other guys who feel pissed off, share their unfair stories and get you all fired up and pissed off. All the sudden you got the manpower to show you're not going to take that crap anymore and you're off to make a statement.

Again dude, it's not that illogical.

 

[People's Champ]

I really did enjoy last night's ending to Raw. I sat there and after absorbing it all in I could feel a surprised look on my face. Seeing Justin Roberts choked out, both Cena and Punk being beaten down was just unbelievable. I'm curious as to what happened to Cole. Probably just ran like a pussy. I can't wait to see what they do with this storyline. Really makes next week's Raw a must watch. Hell, we might even see hem do the same on Smackdown! for all we know. This needs time to play out bfore rushing to conclusions. But one the best endings on Raw in quite a while for sure.

 

[Coco]

Wrong. I said – and I quote – "Glad to see the WWE's finally given fans something that doesn't insult their intelligence for WHAT FEELS LIKE the first time in the last two or three years. Verbatim.

To generalize to the point where nothing in the last few years hasn't insulted my intelligence was never the intention – but the emphasis was important because 90% of the show last night was childish garbage designed to entertain the mildly ******ed – an intelligent fan watching that show for creative genius is the equivalent to an English major reading Green Eggs and Ham for an exercise in vocabulary.

Agreed. I just think the point needs to be made that the sweeping generalizations that can be taken from your post need to be debunked. The WWE is bad rather often (normally on Mondays...), but not even close to all the time. I think you give them too little credit.

On the othe hand, some people give them too much.

So I'm setting myself up for a never ending argument with everyone who doesn't see the middle ground that I do. At least it'll help boost my post count.

Anderson's turn came over the course of a month. It was fast, but made a little sense if you are willing to accept that they rushed it. Meanwhile, I have guys who expected to win a competition as a means to earn a contract being voted off of NXT turning heel because they lost – yes – on one hand it works, but at the very same time it makes little sense when you have guys like Gabriel cut babyface promos on their way out. At least allude to it by having them seem somewhat dejected and frustrated, no.

See above. If it's so straight forward, why was there no prelude? If it's so 'unfuckwithable', why does the logic of having a guy like Gabriel cut a babyface promo before being voted off make no sense when he comes back a week later as a heel being booed for performing a finisher that for weeks prior had the crowd cheering for him?

1) Gabriel's never dealt with rejection like he did last Tuesday. Who are we to assume how it would wear on him? We know nothing about him.

2) Gabriel showed a moment of what could be considered contemplation when he was on the top rope last night. An intelligent writer might make use of it to establish Gabriel's character and motivations, and maybe even make him one of the early defectors from the faction.

See, this is what I mean when I talk about you lacking vision and creativity. It's not the huge jump that you're pretending it is. Do I think it'll work out this way? Probably not. WWE lack the storytelling ability these days. But at this point, it's a storyline stock full of potential.

It obviously is about getting one over on me since this is now the third time in this response you've insulted me directly as opposed to simply discussing this objectively – you know, that thing you begged me to do up there, but don't do yourself. Defined: hypocrisy.

But I do. I give every product the credit it deserves based on what it puts out, not my pre-conceived bias. I do the same with posters. I don't seek to shit on anyone. But when they objectively earn it, why shouldn't I?

But this is another issue entirely. Perhaps it's best left for a different thread.

I just gave you a number of reasons why it makes no sense. To have the heels in the group do so would make sense to me, but a guy like Gabriel who cut a face promo on his way out joining the group out of the blue makes no sense. If this were Tarver, Otunga, etc. all upset over being cast out and all heels, I could see the logic, but to have a babyface get this upset that he turns heel on the drop of a dime is a logical farce.

Daniel Bryan has been a babyface maintaining his grace at times while shitting on the WWE establishment at others. Why is it so hard to believe other faces could do the same?