**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[#hamler]

Okay like really this is a John Cena COMPLAINTS thread...keyword there is "COMPLAINTS!" If certain people want to defend cena then make a fucking Cena Worship thread!

A forum is a discussion - keyword there is DISCUSSION. That's what everyone is doing.

I Personally dont mind the guy, but I am sick of him having the belt the majority of the time.

When you're not sure your current champion can pull in ratings and get over you use Cena as a guy to fall back on.

And that he is pretty robotic in the ring

I don't get this. How is he robotic? Because he uses power moves instead of launching himself off the top rope and taking incredibly risky risks to put on a show? He's fine the way he is. Cena's been in some of the best matches I've seen and his opponents aren't the only ones to thank for that.

and has to be carried sometimes,

Cena does the carrying. Often times a match would be shit without Cena's name being involved.

BUT(before all you Cena ********ers freak out) he does also carry people as well.

Yes he does; more often then not.

That is my opinion! People around here are always trying to change the opinion of others and quite frankly its fucking annoying....Stop it...Don't do it...knock it the fuck off.

We're discussing your opinion. That's what a forum is for - discussion. If we're not discussing opinions, what the fuck is the point of being here?

 

[The Harlem Heat]

Well, that is the last time I am going to post or read this thread. 20-30 year old men cumming their pants over a super hero aimed at 9 year olds. It was the complaints thread for a reason, why don't we see a Triple H complaints thread? Why is it only Cena? For the many...MANY reasons I have states on earlier pages. The definition of a WRESTLER in my book is someone that performs well executed wrestling moves, sells moves well and puts on a good match. Cena cannot do this, his gimmick may appeal to people and I'm not complaining about that; although it doesn't appeal to me. You say it's just discussion Hamler, but it's often 6 huge Cena fans against one logical wrestling fan that fails to see his ability and fail to see why he is the #1 face of the company. That isn't discussion, some of the comments towards punknation26 have been a joke and some of you really, REALLY need to grow up. That's all I have to say about that overly patriotic boring can't wrestle for shit waste of space.

 

[#hamler]

Well, that is the last time I am going to post or read this thread. 20-30 year old men cumming their pants over a super hero aimed at 9 year olds.

What is it that makes someone say this? Because he's a good guy he has to aimed at little kids? I call bullshit there.

It was the complaints thread for a reason, why don't we see a Triple H complaints thread? Why is it only Cena? For the many...MANY reasons I have states on earlier pages.

It's because people can't accept the fact that he's the best thing going today and people hate him for some seriously, hilariously, stupid reasons.

The definition of a WRESTLER in my book is someone that performs well executed wrestling moves, sells moves well and puts on a good match. Cena cannot do this, his gimmick may appeal to people and I'm not complaining about that; although it doesn't appeal to me.

What exactly is it that Cena is doing if he isn't a wrestler?

You say it's just discussion Hamler, but it's often 6 huge Cena fans against one logical wrestling fan that fails to see his ability and fail to see why he is the #1 face of the company.

He fails to see all those things. What's wrong with trying to help him understand it? It is a discussion. If you feel he's having the odds stacked against him then maybe you should post in here more.

That isn't discussion, some of the comments towards punknation26 have been a joke and some of you really, REALLY need to grow up. That's all I have to say about that overly patriotic boring can't wrestle for shit waste of space.

Real mature...

 

[mikde_]

NEWS FLASH!

Wrestling Does Not Draw!

Fact of the matter is that cena works his ass off day in and day out for WWE and makes them a ton of money. He is the biggest name in pro wrestling and is the biggest draw they have. Now im no harvard grad but i think that money is one of the key aspects to look at when running a business.

Oh and cena is easily one of the best wrestlers on the planet. Flair, Race, Hogan, HBK, Austin, HHH, Jericho and Jim Cornette are just a few of the legends i have heard say just how good cena is...i guess you know more than them?

Fact is...he has carried the company for the past 6 years and put on some of the best matches of that time.

People don't hate cena! they hate what he represents. Those very people are the ones so damn ashamed to admit that they watch something that young children also enjoy so instead of just watching something else they do the next best thing...Attack the guy who these kids look up to the most. Path-et-ic!

 

[hollowpoint]

There is a reason that there isn't a The "Official HHH complaints" thread. No one CARES! It's a reason that Cena is as popular as he is. This thread alone proves it. He draws a reaction whether it's positive or negative. You have an opinion about him which is more than I can say about the rest of the roster. Sure he has won alot of Titles, but he draws and creates emotion throughout the ENTIRE arena! I would blame the "E" more than him because they put him in the position he's in.

 

[The Crock]

Okay like really this is a John Cena COMPLAINTS thread...keyword there is "COMPLAINTS!" If certain people want to defend cena then make a fucking Cena Worship thread! I Personally dont mind the guy, but I am sick of him having the belt the majority of the time. And that he is pretty robotic in the ring and has to be carried sometimes, BUT(before all you Cena ********ers freak out) he does also carry people as well. That is my opinion! People around here are always trying to change the opinion of others and quite frankly its fucking annoying....Stop it...Don't do it...knock it the fuck off. Oh and don't ever compare Batman to Hulk Hogan again, Just no... You're wrong and should probably be hospitalized as you are a danger to society for your lack of intelligence. Thank you.

Actually, if you want to get REALLY in depth, this thread is for anybody who has anything to say about John Cena.

John Cena is neither robotic, nor does anybody ever carry him. Most of the time, Cena dictates his matches and which direction they go in, if not, it's an equal load. Cena doesn't need to be carried. Why? Because he's the best in the business. The whole "robotic" argument, to me at least, signifies that you don't really know how very much about wrestling. Cena had a style, he works it, just like everybody else. If Cena's robotic, then so is every other wrestler ever. Bret Hart, Ric Flair, everbody has a "formula" they follow.

We've already disproved that Cena's bad in-ring, as he's not. Having a we of moves you depend on doesn't mean you're robotic. You seem to be one of this people who's a fan of guys because they stack a bunch of spots into a match, even if they don't really fit. Cena tells a story and connects with the crowd, end of story.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

NEWS FLASH!

Wrestling Does Not Draw!

Fact of the matter is that cena works his ass off day in and day out for WWE and makes them a ton of money. He is the biggest name in pro wrestling and is the biggest draw they have. Now im no harvard grad but i think that money is one of the key aspects to look at when running a business.

Oh and cena is easily one of the best wrestlers on the planet. Flair, Race, Hogan, HBK, Austin, HHH, Jericho and Jim Cornette are just a few of the legends i have heard say just how good cena is...i guess you know more than them?

Fact is...he has carried the company for the past 6 years and put on some of the best matches of that time.

People don't hate cena! they hate what he represents. Those very people are the ones so damn ashamed to admit that they watch something that young children also enjoy so instead of just watching something else they do the next best thing...Attack the guy who these kids look up to the most. Path-et-ic!

This is the reason why you have been future endeavored.

Wrestling does not draw? WRESTLING does not draw?

NEWS FLASH

It does not matter whether you watching a spot fest (which I am a fan of) or a storytelling classic (which I also like so I am not a smark) wrestling is defined as both preforming moves and telling a story. If wrestling does not draw then what does....the movies? the merchandise? NO!

John Cena is a top star and CAN wrestle. Saying "who cares if he doesn't do a a crap load of moves" is wrong but again saying "oh he only does the 5 moves of doom" is also an example of stupidity. A good wrestler incorporates both high spots( cena's top rope leg drop) and storytelling (his selling) into his matches which is what John Cena does.

 

[The Champ]

Well, that is the last time I am going to post or read this thread. 20-30 year old men cumming their pants over a super hero aimed at 9 year olds. It was the complaints thread for a reason, why don't we see a Triple H complaints thread? Why is it only Cena?

Because Triple H isn't the top guy in WWE anymore, nor was he ever really, and people are always going to have more to say about the top guy. Let's not act like nobody has complained about Triple H recently, either. Don't make me laugh.

The definition of a WRESTLER in my book is someone that performs well executed wrestling moves, sells moves well and puts on a good match. Cena cannot do this, his gimmick may appeal to people and I'm not complaining about that; although it doesn't appeal to me.

Just doing moves doesn't captivate the audience. There are plenty of people who can do moves. Most people on the roster can execute moves well, in fact. Do most people on the roster capture the audience like John Cena does? Do they get over like Cena does? Do they inspire the same kinds of reactions, which lead to the same kind of money? No? Then they're not as good.

You say it's just discussion Hamler, but it's often 6 huge Cena fans against one logical wrestling fan that fails to see his ability and fail to see why he is the #1 face of the company. That isn't discussion, some of the comments towards punknation26 have been a joke and some of you really, REALLY need to grow up. That's all I have to say about that overly patriotic boring can't wrestle for shit waste of space.

The fact that the anti-Cena ones are the logical ones is the biggest joke of all, but besides that, it's a discussion no matter how many people are involved. Also, plenty of other people who share your opinion have posted in this thread. Don't act like it's six on one when it's not. That sounds like the cries of someone who can't argue and thinks he's getting picked on because people disagree with him. Newsflash: if it's a thread about Cena, anyone can voice their opinion on Cena. If someone wants Cena to die in a car crash, they have the right to say that. They would be an awful person and would deserve any criticism they get for it, but they have the right to say it if that's what they feel. The same goes for extreme positive opinions, complaint thread or not.

 

[cenaking978]

The wwe needs John Cena, and there's no doubt about! He is the hardest worker the company has. He might not be the best wrestler but hes always showing improvment and he can hold his own. When all said and done he will have held more wwe championships then anyone in the history of the wwf/wwe. He isnt bad on the mic ether. So all the cena haters out there.....I GOT 2 WORDS FOR YOU.....SUCK IT

 

[[cL]]

Quick question.
Why is Cena as good as his supporters think he is, but not as bad as his haters feel he is?
Like most of the IWC, some people will never be satisfied. The Cena Haters will always hate him, some for asinine reasons and some for very legitimate reasons. This is the thing. All reasons are debatable.
You say Cena is a bad wrestler - some will say he's good wrestler. The point is debatable.
This whole forum is debatable.

As for me, I am totally anti-Cena. I've stated my opinion and had my wars in this forum already and no matter what is said, a person can argue ones point against another all day and night. He's had great matches and matches that sucked. He's done amazingly good promos and promos that bit the dust. And he has no-selled more than once...But...he's also sold more than once. These points are debatable and as long as people love/hate him, they'll continue to be able to do that. So here's the thing. As many youtube videos of great Cena moments a person can pull up, someone else can pull up bad Cena moments...So is it fair to say he's a bit inconsistent?
everyone has good days and bad one....i get it. but the question still applies.
Now,
The only thing, IMO, he has totally been consistent in, is his work ethic. Because he is respected outside of the ring as much as he is inside of the ring, he'll always get the ball. Because as much as I may hate him, the reality is, no one on the roster besides Punk, HHH and Taker is on his level...yet. Which means he's certain to be on top until someone better comes along, or he fails to draw. (which blows..IMO)

So lets see if we agree here:
He's not a Bad wrestler. But he's not great either.
Fair?
He's the top draw, top face, best thing in the company right now.
But....who else in the company is on a level where they could be compared to him?
This isn't the attitude era where their were more main event level guys to choose from.

What i'm saying is...maybe he isn't as bad as we think he is...but maybe he isn't as good as some of his supporters think he is either. So why don't we just leave it at that. Since the reality is..we're NEVER gonna agree...
Just sayin.

 

[The Crock]

Quick question.
Why is Cena as good as his supporters think he is, but not as bad as his haters feel he is?
Like most of the IWC, some people will never be satisfied. The Cena Haters will always hate him, some for asinine reasons and some for very legitimate reasons. This is the thing. All reasons are debatable.
You say Cena is a bad wrestler - some will say he's good wrestler. The point is debatable.
This whole forum is debatable.

Actually, it's not really debatable. Cena isn't bad. You may not like him, but he is damn good at what he does. To even argue that Cena is a bad wrestler is foolish; he knows what he's doing in that ring, even if he doesn't have a flashy move set. He knows how to work a match, work the crowd, and tell a story. I've said it a million times in this thread alone, he doesn't need to do anything else.

As for me, I am totally anti-Cena. I've stated my opinion and had my wars in this forum already and no matter what is said, a person can argue ones point against another all day and night. He's had great matches and matches that sucked. He's done amazingly good promos and promos that bit the dust. And he has no-selled more than once...But...he's also sold more than once. These points are debatable and as long as people love/hate him, they'll continue to be able to do that. So here's the thing. As many youtube videos of great Cena moments a person can pull up, someone else can pull up bad Cena moments...So is it fair to say he's a bit inconsistent?
everyone has good days and bad one....i get it. but the question still applies.

I don't see how Cena is inconsistent... at all. He's always entertaining and always puts on one hell of a show, always. I find it hilarious that you're claiming he "no-sells," because he doesn't. He starts a comeback and blows through his opponents at times, but that does not constitute John Cena not selling. Hell, he's one of the best in the business at selling and making his opponent look like gold. The list of guys he has made look great, far better than they really are, goes on and on. That's all because of how he works in the ring and how selfless he is when it comes to the wrestling business.

This has nothing to do with me being a fan of Cena -- It's a fact. Some of your ideas about Cena are just flat out wrong.

Now,
The only thing, IMO, he has totally been consistent in, is his work ethic. Because he is respected outside of the ring as much as he is inside of the ring, he'll always get the ball. Because as much as I may hate him, the reality is, no one on the roster besides Punk, HHH and Taker is on his level...yet. Which means he's certain to be on top until someone better comes along, or he fails to draw. (which blows..IMO)

What about Randy Orton? Are you completely neglecting the guy who would be the face of the company if not for John Cena? There's plenty of guys there who could come and be on top, but Cena's just too good. Cena doesn't always get the ball, he's put over everybody and their mother. I don't see how you can say he always gets the ball. On top of that, there's nothing actually wrong with him getting the strap, either. It's necessary sometimes. The reason Orton gets the belt on Smackdown is the same reason Cena gets it on Raw, stability. Sure, if they wanted to they could give the belt to a guy like CM Punk, but he's working a different angle, so why not give it to Cena and then have him drop it to a guy like Alberto Del Rio and make him look better than anybody else can? It works, plain and simple.

So lets see if we agree here:
He's not a Bad wrestler. But he's not great either.
Fair?
He's the top draw, top face, best thing in the company right now.
But....who else in the company is on a level where they could be compared to him?
This isn't the attitude era where their were more main event level guys to choose from.

I'm going to vomit. I hate this conception that the Attitude Era was so stable and so golden with its main event scene. IT WASN'T! The belt was tossed back and forth between way too many people and, basically, just devalued. Aside from Rock, Austin, HHH, and 'Taker, everybody else was really a fringe candidate for the belt. Many of them later developed into solid champions, Jericho, Angle, etc., but at that time, they were thin with REAL contenders... yet they still tossed the belt around to guys trying to put them over. WWE has a fair amount of solid main eventers today too: Cena, Orton, Del Rio, Punk, HHH (If you want to count him), Miz, Christian, Henry, Big Show, Sheamus, all those guys can be put into a main event and we wouldn't really question it all that much. Then you have guys a step below like Ziggler, Rhodes, Swagger, R-Truth, and Morrison, who could also step into a main event if need be.

There's no reason for the WWE to HAVE to put the belt on John Cena and call him the top guy. The reason they do is because he's the best at what he does, and as much as CM Punk would try to make you believe otherwise, it's just true.

What i'm saying is...maybe he isn't as bad as we think he is...but maybe he isn't as good as some of his supporters think he is either. So why don't we just leave it at that. Since the reality is..we're NEVER gonna agree...
Just sayin.

He is just as good as we say he is. We'll never agree, but that doesn't mean what Cena supporters say isn't true.

 

[[cL]]

Actually, it's not really debatable. Cena isn't bad. You may not like him, but he is damn good at what he does. To even argue that Cena is a bad wrestler is foolish; he knows what he's doing in that ring, even if he doesn't have a flashy move set. He knows how to work a match, work the crowd, and tell a story. I've said it a million times in this thread alone, he doesn't need to do anything else.

Of course its debatable. Just because you're in favor of him, does not make what you're opinion is less viable than someone who's not. Unless a persons opinion is based in emotion and complete fiction. The reality is, most Cena supporters are ALWAYS going to disagree with a person who hates him. You may one day watch Cena have a great match. That VERY same night a Cena hater, with equal intelligence, will watch that same match and hate it. The truth could be it was just ok...
We'll never agree.
and thats what makes it debatable.

I don't see how Cena is inconsistent... at all. He's always entertaining and always puts on one hell of a show, always. I find it hilarious that you're claiming he "no-sells," because he doesn't. He starts a comeback and blows through his opponents at times, but that does not constitute John Cena not selling. Hell, he's one of the best in the business at selling and making his opponent look like gold. The list of guys he has made look great, far better than they really are, goes on and on. That's all because of how he works in the ring and how selfless he is when it comes to the wrestling business.

you're entitled opinion.
i don't agree.

This has nothing to do with me being a fan of Cena -- It's a fact. Some of your ideas about Cena are just flat out wrong.

in your very much entitled opinion.

What about Randy Orton? Are you completely neglecting the guy who would be the face of the company if not for John Cena?

and Randy Orton....sorry. Forgot about him.

There's plenty of guys there who could come and be on top, but Cena's just too good. Cena doesn't always get the ball, [Sure he does.] he's put over everybody and their mother. [and because he always has the ball he's in perfect position to always put someone over. And because of that he just ought to...because of his love for the business.] I don't see how you can say he always gets the ball. [because WWE=John Cena.] On top of that, there's nothing actually wrong with him getting the strap, either.

There are a lot of guys who could be on top. You are right about that. So then the question is, why aren't they? Is Cena too good or are they not good enough? If they're not good enough then is Cena really that good? Or is he that good, by comparison......

I'm going to vomit.

Unnecessary

I hate this conception that the Attitude Era was so stable and so golden with its main event scene. IT WASN'T!

and thats the point. The attitude era wasn't about stability it was about variety. There were a number of people who were able to run with the company, not just one. Thats one of the reasons why those of us who loved the attitude era hate the PG era. I don't care if it was Rock, Austin HHH and Taker...Shawn Michaels, Mankind Jericho or whomever else, the WWF/E had options up the yang. Thats one of the things I miss most. If John Cena had more contemporaries...if there were more people that the WWE believed in to run neck and neck with Cena, i'm sure the Cena hate would decrease dramatically. But then again maybe it wouldn't.

The belt was tossed back and forth between way too many people and, basically, just devalued.

i disagree.

Aside from Rock, Austin, HHH, and 'Taker, everybody else was really a fringe candidate for the belt. Many of them later developed into solid champions, Jericho, Angle, etc., but at that time, they were thin with REAL contenders...

again, thats the point. whether it was 4 or 10 contenders, it wasn't just 1. There are a lot of great talent in WWE and a good bunch of them who are standout main eventers but are they where John Cena is? and thats the difference. You had HHH, Taker, Austin, Rock, Shawn Michaels and others who were all at the same level. Back then not just one superstar ran with the company and to many, that fact kept it very interesting.

WWE has a fair amount of solid main eventers today too: Cena,


[and THEN......]



....Orton, Del Rio, Punk, HHH (If you want to count him), Miz, Christian, Henry, Big Show, Sheamus, all those guys can be put into a main event and we wouldn't really question it all that much. Then you have guys a step below like Ziggler, Rhodes, Swagger, R-Truth, and Morrison, who could also step into a main event if need be.

There's no reason for the WWE to HAVE to put the belt on John Cena and call him the top guy....[and yet.....] The reason they do is because he's the best at what he does, and as much as CM Punk would try to make you believe otherwise, it's just true.

Who's a better wrestler than John Cena on the current roster?
Who's a better storyteller than John Cena?
Who's a better mic man?
Who sells more merch?
Who gets the biggest pops?
Who draws the biggest reaction?
If you're answer is John Cena (and i'm sure it is) then they DO have to keep giving him the ball (not necessarily the title but THE MAN status), because no one else is at the level necessary to hold and run with it, in their opinion.

He is just as good as we say he is. We'll never agree, but that doesn't mean what Cena supporters say isn't true.

He's just as good as you believe he is. And i'm ok with that. Because in my opinion he's not as good as you think he is. He's not terrible...but he's not great. He's just good. And i'm entitled to that.
Crock, i'm not going to have an argument with you about this because clearly we're not going to change each others minds on the subject. So lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Marv95]

Who's a better wrestler than John Cena on the current roster?
Who's a better storyteller than John Cena?
Who's a better mic man?
Who sells more merch?
Who gets the biggest pops?
Who draws the biggest reaction?

-Punk, Danielson, Rey, Ziggler, Christian, Morrison, HHH are all better wrestlers than Cena. Problem is they either can't be taken seriously due to booking, injured(Rey) or isn't even a part-timer(HHH).
-Cena's mic work has been constantly down since 2007. Being Rock-like isn't the only requirement for good mic skills. He tries too hard. If anything Christian and Mark Henry are the best right now, which is a shame.
-Punk.
-The Rock.
-For the wrong reason. Something is seriously wrong when your top face gets half booed every week(including Mexico) and gets booed in his hometown.

 

[The Crock]

Of course its debatable. Just because you're in favor of him, does not make what you're opinion is less viable than someone who's not. Unless a persons opinion is based in emotion and complete fiction. The reality is, most Cena supporters are ALWAYS going to disagree with a person who hates him. You may one day watch Cena have a great match. That VERY same night a Cena hater, with equal intelligence, will watch that same match and hate it. The truth could be it was just ok...
We'll never agree.
and thats what makes it debatable.

No, if I see a Cena match that I think isn't good, I'll say it, but I haven't had that issue with Cena. He always puts on a damn good show. You're trying to say that Cena has no intelligent fans who can see things for how they are -- and you're wrong.

There are a lot of guys who could be on top. You are right about that. So then the question is, why aren't they? Is Cena too good or are they not good enough? If they're not good enough then is Cena really that good? Or is he that good, by comparison......

Cena's too good. They're good enough, take Cena out of the equation and Randy Orton becomes the biggest thing in wrestling, but not with Cena there. He's the best in the business.

and thats the point. The attitude era wasn't about stability it was about variety. There were a number of people who were able to run with the company, not just one. Thats one of the reasons why those of us who loved the attitude era hate the PG era. I don't care if it was Rock, Austin HHH and Taker...Shawn Michaels, Mankind Jericho or whomever else, the WWF/E had options up the yang. Thats one of the things I miss most. If John Cena had more contemporaries...if there were more people that the WWE believed in to run neck and neck with Cena, i'm sure the Cena hate would decrease dramatically. But then again maybe it wouldn't.

Orton is that guy! Orton's the guy who's supposed to be the number two. The WWE has that, you're just a cookie cutter Attitude Era smark who doesn't see any flaw in it, even though I could list off thousands, if I felt so inclined. Variety didn't do anything good for the belt, other than make it a useless prop, but even then, at the end of the day the belt always came to one or two men: The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. Your top guy(s) are the ones who you want the belt on.

Look, I grew up watching the Attitude Era, loved it dearly, but I love wrestling today too. You're just looking at it from a very, very, very closed-minded perspective.

again, thats the point. whether it was 4 or 10 contenders, it wasn't just 1. There are a lot of great talent in WWE and a good bunch of them who are standout main eventers but are they where John Cena is? and thats the difference. You had HHH, Taker, Austin, Rock, Shawn Michaels and others who were all at the same level. Back then not just one superstar ran with the company and to many, that fact kept it very interesting.

Nobody was at the same level Rock and Austin were. Nobody. They were just as over as John Cena is, hell, they were MORE over than Cena. Guys like HHH, 'Taker, and whoever else were nice and they had their support, but don't get it twisted, they were nothing compared to Rock and Cena.

Who's a better wrestler than John Cena on the current roster?
Who's a better storyteller than John Cena?
Who's a better mic man?
Who sells more merch?
Who gets the biggest pops?
Who draws the biggest reaction?
If you're answer is John Cena (and i'm sure it is) then they DO have to keep giving him the ball (not necessarily the title but THE MAN status), because no one else is at the level necessary to hold and run with it, in their opinion.

CM Punk is the new merch leader, but I get what you're saying here, but that's no reason to fault Cena. It's also no reason to say nobody else can compare. Nobody was close to Rock and Austin in the Attitude Era, but you just went on about how you could put the belt on so many different guys. Oops.

Cena's the top dog, clearly, but he doesn't need to have the ball constantly. CM Punk, Randy Orton, both guys have gotten their opportunities to take it and run with the ball too.

The fact of the matter is; you're pulling at straws just to bash Cena.

He's just as good as you believe he is. And i'm ok with that. Because in my opinion he's not as good as you think he is. He's not terrible...but he's not great. He's just good. And i'm entitled to that.

To pull one of Slyfox's greatest gems ever out of the bag: Your opinion is wrong. Cena is great. There should be no debate.

 

[[cL]]

No, if I see a Cena match that I think isn't good, I'll say it, but I haven't had that issue with Cena. He always puts on a damn good show. You're trying to say that Cena has no intelligent fans who can see things for how they are -- and you're wrong.

You've never seen Cena wrestle a bad match? Alrighty then.

I never said Cena didn't have intelligent fans. My EXACT words were, "You may one day watch Cena have a great match. That VERY same night a Cena hater, with equal intelligence, will watch that same match and hate it. The truth could be it was just ok..."
So to restate for even further clarity, two people with equal intelligence could watch a Cena match. The one who loves Cena, would LOVE the match. The one who hates Cena would hate the match. But in all reality the match could simply have been just Ok. But due to the bias that either person has they see the match as one or the other. I hope I cleared that up.
In other words, i'm not always right, but i'm never wrong....lol.

Cena's too good. They're good enough, take Cena out of the equation and Randy Orton becomes the biggest thing in wrestling, but not with Cena there. He's the best in the business.

in this era of professional wrestling. but given the amount of competition, that's not saying much. IMO.

Orton is that guy! Orton's the guy who's supposed to be the number two. The WWE has that, you're just a cookie cutter Attitude Era smark [careful...you're getting ready to make this ugly unneccessarily.] who doesn't see any flaw in it, even though I could list off thousands, if I felt so inclined.

Seeing that the attitude era started when you were roughly 4 years old and ended (officially) around 2001, though it was really done around 2003 when you were around 11, I'm gonna say not likely. Not saying you couldn't have done some reading, or some youtubing or bought some dvd's but...yeah...ok whatever dude...

Variety didn't do anything good for the belt, other than make it a useless prop, but even then, at the end of the day the belt always came to one or two men: The Rock or Stone Cold Steve Austin. Your top guy(s) are the ones who you want the belt on.

Sir. During the attitude era, SCSA and the Rock were NOT the only two top guys. They were arguably the most over guys in that era but they were NOT the only guys that held the title during the entire 7-8 year span of the attitude era. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Mick Foley & the Undertaker were all multiple time world champions. And they were ALL main event level players. We're not talking the most iconic wrestlers of their time, we're talking main event players. And their were more than just two.

Look, I grew up watching the Attitude Era, loved it dearly, but I love wrestling today too. You're just looking at it from a very, very, very closed-minded perspective.

I promise you I'm not. I am willing to admit that John Cena is not as bad as I may think he is. You are not willing to admit that he's not as great as you think he is.

Nobody was at the same level Rock and Austin were. Nobody.

While I will agree that the Rock and Austin are arguably 2 of the biggest names in the history of wrestling, during their rise to the top in the midst of the attitude era, they were amongst at least 6 other guys who were on the same level at one time or another. At their height, they were the top guys. BUT to reiterate my earlier point, even if it was just them two, there was V-A-R-I-E-T-Y. Not just one carrier of the company.

CM Punk is the new merch leader, but I get what you're saying here, but that's no reason to fault Cena.

Not faulting Cena. I am saying that because the WWE can't put their trust into another person to carry the company, we have Cena. It is what it is. I would like there to be more people with the ability to carry the company so he could have more legit competition thereby getting a better John Cena. Because people like him thrive on competition and if someone is better than him and getting over, and he still wants that spotlight he's going to have to better himself to get over that person. Thereby giving us a GREAT John Cena. IMO.

It's also no reason to say nobody else can compare. Nobody was close to Rock and Austin in the Attitude Era, but you just went on about how you could put the belt on so many different guys. Oops.

Oops, is right..because that's the point YOU were trying to make. Not me.
Rock and SCSA are two of the top guys in the business but they were just 2 of the most over guys in a time OF top guys during the era in question.

Cena's the top dog, clearly, but he doesn't need to have the ball constantly. CM Punk, Randy Orton, both guys have gotten their opportunities to take it and run with the ball too.

I'm not making myself clear when I use the term "the ball".
When I am referencing "the ball" I am talking about top dog status. I am describing the brand as it is the face of the company. Not the title.
With that said. Randy Orton went to Smackdown and is the top face. On Smackdown. He's hardly been given "the ball". He's extremely over but he's never out sold Cena in merchandise and he's never gonna be more over. Trying to push him as the next SCSA isn't helping either.
CM Punk's run isn't in full swing yet as he's JUST started selling more merch than Cena and is in line for a full push. So...he's not been GIVEN the ball yet...they're GIVING him the ball soon.
So AGAIN, Cena is the best compared to............

The fact of the matter is; you're pulling at straws just to bash Cena.

the fact of the matter is, that was NOT fact. I'm not bashing Cena. I haven't bashed him during my entire conversation with you. As a matter of fact, i've done everything I could NOT to bash him. so...YOU sir, are wrong.

Let me end this here. I am anti-Cena. I don't like him, but I respect his work ethic and do not think he is as terrible as I USED to think he was. I don't like his character as I think it has become stale over the years. He's SO over that the WWE feels theres no need for him to change. If it ain't broke....blah blah blah. So fine. If thats the case then it is what it is. They're making a crap load of money off of him...Fiiiinneee. I respect that. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I would love to see Cena do a heel turn. Will it happen? Probably not. Not unless his merch sales drop dramatically and he stops drawing. I'd love to see some of the mid card players like...well...hell anyone step up and get as over or more over than Cena. Because as I stated before, it would either make him pass the torch OR light a fire under him that makes him evolve into something different. Will it happen? I'd like to think that with the push that CM Punk is going to get that it will. Hopefully. But as it stands we have what we have and I'm a wrestling fan for life, so hate it or love it i'm gonna watch.
But i'm gonna watch it
(in my best Yosemite Sam voice)
haaaatting that darn Cena.

 

[The Crock]

You've never seen Cena wrestle a bad match? Alrighty then.

I never said Cena didn't have intelligent fans. My EXACT words were, "You may one day watch Cena have a great match. That VERY same night a Cena hater, with equal intelligence, will watch that same match and hate it. The truth could be it was just ok..."
So to restate for even further clarity, two people with equal intelligence could watch a Cena match. The one who loves Cena, would LOVE the match. The one who hates Cena would hate the match. But in all reality the match could simply have been just Ok. But due to the bias that either person has they see the match as one or the other. I hope I cleared that up.
In other words, i'm not always right, but i'm never wrong....lol.

This is such a cop-out. There will always be marks for everybody out there, or people who hate a certain guy, but that's not always the case. For every moron that bashes Cena and every guy that goes through defending Cena even when he shouldn't, there's one guy who sees it for how it is.

in this era of professional wrestling. but given the amount of competition, that's not saying much. IMO.

You keep bringing up the era, time after time. This has nothing to do with it. Look back to when Cena was making his way up and earlier on in his time on Raw, there were plenty of guys around who could have been conceived as some of the top dogs, but they went with Cena. It doesn't matter if you're Jericho, 'Taker, Triple H, Orton, HBK, Batista, Edge, etc. Cena was always the better option.

Seeing that the attitude era started when you were roughly 4 years old and ended (officially) around 2001, though it was really done around 2003 when you were around 11, I'm gonna say not likely. Not saying you couldn't have done some reading, or some youtubing or bought some dvd's but...yeah...ok whatever dude...

I've gone back and watched it all. Hell, I'm positive I know more than you do. Don't let my age get in the way here. I know exactly what the Attitude Era was. It was solely based on shock value and story lines, not really on what went on in the ring or even telling a story a lot of the time. Then when it came to making main event talent, they took a few guys and simply shot them up to the main event. They made it look like they had options for the belt, but you better bet your ass it was always a matter of HOW to get it back to Rock or Stone Cold.

Sir. During the attitude era, SCSA and the Rock were NOT the only two top guys. They were arguably the most over guys in that era but they were NOT the only guys that held the title during the entire 7-8 year span of the attitude era. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Mick Foley & the Undertaker were all multiple time world champions. And they were ALL main event level players. We're not talking the most iconic wrestlers of their time, we're talking main event players. And their were more than just two.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Top guy does not mean any main eventer, it's the guy (or guys) who carry the company. Who did that in the Attitude Era? Rock and Austin. There were main eventers, mostly fringe guys though, or guys like Michaels who were only there for a fraction of the time. Not everybody who touches the world title deserves a distinction as a top guy. By that logic, Jack Swagger and Khali would have worked a WrestleMania main event by now.

I promise you I'm not. I am willing to admit that John Cena is not as bad as I may think he is. You are not willing to admit that he's not as great as you think he is.

I'm willing to admit anything that's correct and frankly, your opinion on Cena and this whole argument, really, is a puddle of horse shit.

While I will agree that the Rock and Austin are arguably 2 of the biggest names in the history of wrestling, during their rise to the top in the midst of the attitude era, they were amongst at least 6 other guys who were on the same level at one time or another. At their height, they were the top guys. BUT to reiterate my earlier point, even if it was just them two, there was V-A-R-I-E-T-Y. Not just one carrier of the company.

Variety is not always a good thing. Especially when it devalues the belt and tosses a bunch of guys into main events, when they shouldn't be there. For fuck's sake, Rikishi was the center of a huge storyline and main evented PPVs. RIKISHI!

You're kind of right about there not being one guy who carried the company, there were two. Rock and Austin. Take them out of the equation, hell, just Austin and the WWE might not exist today. They were the faces of the company.

Not faulting Cena. I am saying that because the WWE can't put their trust into another person to carry the company, we have Cena. It is what it is. I would like there to be more people with the ability to carry the company so he could have more legit competition thereby getting a better John Cena. Because people like him thrive on competition and if someone is better than him and getting over, and he still wants that spotlight he's going to have to better himself to get over that person. Thereby giving us a GREAT John Cena. IMO.

Hold on, that's asinine. They don't need to make anybody else the top guy, because they have the best... John FUCKING Cena. Triple H carried the Ruthless Aggression Era, and that was one of the most miserable eras ever, but obviously I'm sure you'd think he's a better choice "because he was in the Attitude Era!"

Guys like Orton and Punk get amazing reactions, perform damn well, they'd be top guys if not for Cena. It's not that they're not good enough, he's just too good.

Oops, is right..because that's the point YOU were trying to make. Not me.
Rock and SCSA are two of the top guys in the business but they were just 2 of the most over guys in a time OF top guys during the era in question.

Errrr... What? I'll say it again; they were the ONLY two. Foley and company were over, but they couldn't carry that company.

I'm not making myself clear when I use the term "the ball".
When I am referencing "the ball" I am talking about top dog status. I am describing the brand as it is the face of the company. Not the title.
With that said. Randy Orton went to Smackdown and is the top face. On Smackdown. He's hardly been given "the ball". He's extremely over but he's never out sold Cena in merchandise and he's never gonna be more over. Trying to push him as the next SCSA isn't helping either.
CM Punk's run isn't in full swing yet as he's JUST started selling more merch than Cena and is in line for a full push. So...he's not been GIVEN the ball yet...they're GIVING him the ball soon.
So AGAIN, Cena is the best compared to............

Being given the ball is being given an opportunity to blossom into the top guy, which Punk and Orton have both gotten. Don't forget, The Rock made it a point of his to carry Smackdown and be at the top, why can't Orton do the same? I mean, Orton even appears on Raw (due to the brands coming together), so he has ample opportunity to get as over as possible.

WWE gives people opportunities and people do good jobs, but nobody can touch Cena, much like Hogan.

the fact of the matter is, that was NOT fact. I'm not bashing Cena. I haven't bashed him during my entire conversation with you. As a matter of fact, i've done everything I could NOT to bash him. so...YOU sir, are wrong.

Ha. You've said multiple times that Cens is average, but it's because wrestling suck, etc. Don't try to make it seem like you're not another mindless from, bashing Cena.

Let me end this here. I am anti-Cena. I don't like him, but I respect his work ethic and do not think he is as terrible as I USED to think he was. I don't like his character as I think it has become stale over the years. He's SO over that the WWE feels theres no need for him to change. If it ain't broke....blah blah blah. So fine. If thats the case then it is what it is. They're making a crap load of money off of him...Fiiiinneee. I respect that. That doesn't mean I have to like it. I would love to see Cena do a heel turn. Will it happen? Probably not. Not unless his merch sales drop dramatically and he stops drawing. I'd love to see some of the mid card players like...well...hell anyone step up and get as over or more over than Cena. Because as I stated before, it would either make him pass the torch OR light a fire under him that makes him evolve into something different. Will it happen? I'd like to think that with the push that CM Punk is going to get that it will. Hopefully. But as it stands we have what we have and I'm a wrestling fan for life, so hate it or love it i'm gonna watch.
But i'm gonna watch it
(in my best Yosemite Sam voice)
haaaatting that darn Cena.

You're anti-Cena? Shit, I never would have fucking guessed.

You're one of the guys that clamors for a Cena heel turn, when it's completely unnecessary. I'm sure you'd be jumping on him to turn face again if he did anyway. Simply put, Cena puts out the best product and does the best job, he shouldn't change. He's put over countless midcard talents in his time, made them into main eventers (looking at you Edge). Cena does it all, but he'll never make people like you happy, nor does he need to.

Please tell me, though, why would Cena pass the torch to Punk? Punk's got some mileage on him, he's no spring chicken. Who's to say Cena doesn't have more left in the tank? Why not pass it to a young guy? He built Miz up, he can do it for anybody else.

 

[[cL]]

You REALLY don't understand. And I get it. I totally understand. You are not just a Cena lover. You are THE Cena lover. You have failed not just to see another man's point of view. You have taken everything I said and made it into me bashing Cena. Why? Because you are a SuperFan.
Not a bad thing, I'd defend Shawn Michaels to the death too. So I get it.

But I do not share your opinion that he's great. I don't. I think he's just ok. I think his gimmick was hot when it first debuted and nearly 8 years later, i've grown tired of it. It's stale and I would like to see him evolve, by natural progression or by him being forced to in order to stay relevant. That's my opinion of him. Its not right, its not wrong. It's my personal thought. I'm not giving you reasons based in hyperbole or irrational emotion. I'm not making up things to make someone believe in a theory I came up with. I'm saying he, TO ME, is just Ok.

If someone says to me, he's the greatest thing in wrestling today, I say, ok, well look at wrestling today! By comparison, he IS the greatest thing in wrestling today. Because wrestling today is just OK. Its not the best era in wrestling, they have top notch wrestlers but they're not telling the best stories...the hottest story in wrestling in YEAAAARSSS (including the beginning of the Nexus story) was the Summer of Punk and things got SUPER exciting again. If you honestly think this is the best era in wrestling history, I feel so sorry for what you've missed. It simply is ok. Its not the best i've witnessed in wrestling, and its not the worst. It's good and on the cusp of getting even better but the reality is, for a while now, excluding the summer of Punk, its been ok. Hogan said something in a recent interview that made me understand this era of wrestling a little differently. He said back in the day if there was a feud started between he and Andre the Giant, you wouldn't get that match until almost a year later. They had time to build the feud and make it something that people HAD to buy. But in this day and age of technology and with so many different options that people have to jump online, flip the channel, play on your phone or what have you, the promoter has to put that match on as soon as the feud begins. Promoters don't have the time necessary to spend building a good story or getting the people anxious to see something. So everything is rushed. Storylines, pushes, merchandise...everything. So, though its no one person's fault, the fact of the matter is, compared to the golden age of wrestling, the era I grew up in, on to the Attitude era, this era of wrestling is simply, Ok.
Ok, i'll say this. Cena has been great in an ok era of wrestling. Does that help?
You said it yourself. Cena will never be more over than the Rock or Stone Cold. So by comparison can he even RATE next to Hogan? He is the Hogan of this era....but he is not, by any stretch of the imagination...Hogan.
Lets rap this up shall we?
By comparison.
the Golden Age vs. The PG era -Hogan vs. Cena.
TGA/Hogan. Hands down.
By comparison.
the Attitude Era vs. The PG era - (your two) Rock & SCSA vs. Cena
TAE/Rock & Stone Cold
So if the Golden Age was AWESOME and the Attitude Era was Great...then the PG era is ......good? By comparison.

Is WWE still successful in this era? Yes. Absolutely. Vince is gonna make that money. Believe that. Does it change the quality of the product? No. Its just ok. I'm a wrestling fan. I remember when Bob Backlund was champion. I was watching when Rocky Johnson and Tony Atlas became the first black tag team champions. Pedro Morales...the REAL ROCK Don the ROCK Muraco...I've been in this for a looong time. And as a long time wrestling fan, in this day and age, the production quality, graphics, pyrotechnics, fanfare, and the entire way a show is put on is greater. But by comparison, the product, what sells the business, has just been OK. And your boy is the face of it. I mean every business has peaks and valleys. I believe we're heading for some peaks, because God knows we've been in the valley for a while.

Now to address your comments.

This is such a cop-out. There will always be marks for everybody out there, or people who hate a certain guy, but that's not always the case. For every moron that bashes Cena and every guy that goes through defending Cena even when he shouldn't, there's one guy who sees it for how it is.

I just...I just said that. I just said almost exactly this. This is what I've been saying...

I didn't want to address anything else after this.. but...

I've gone back and watched it all. Hell, I'm positive I know more than you do.

thats rich.

Then when it came to making main event talent, they took a few guys and simply shot them up to the main event.

I was gonna list the main eventers who would disagree with you but I ran out of room.

They made it look like they had options for the belt, but you better bet your ass it was always a matter of HOW to get it back to Rock or Stone Cold.

wow.
Please look up the history of the WWE championship from 1996-2003
Stone Cold has held the title roughly 6 times in his career. There was a point where he lost the title and didn't get it back for almost 2 years. The Rock has held it about 7 times. (now we're just talking about the WWE championship not the WHC.) and by the way...(Triple H was a 5 time world champion during that time as well....dont tell nobody.)
Cena held the WWE title 3 times THIS YEAR.
Why? Because he's that good? Or...because no one else is good enough...
...YOU know why...lol.
(for clarity sake, no one else is good enough...or did you already know where I was going with that...?)

You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're wrong.

Top guy does not mean any main eventer, it's the guy (or guys) who carry the company. Who did that in the Attitude Era? Rock and Austin. There were main eventers, mostly fringe guys though, or guys like Michaels who were only there for a fraction of the time. Not everybody who touches the world title deserves a distinction as a top guy. By that logic, Jack Swagger and Khali would have worked a WrestleMania main event by now.

DX, Triple H, The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mankind and the Undertaker were all doing their parts to carry the company through the attitude era. Stone Cold and Rock may have been the most over, but the reality is we wanted to see ALL of them and each one had a very distinct quality that kept them in main event status. I never said that their world title runs were the REASON they were main eventers. I simply said, they WERE the top guys.
For future reference though:
Glossary:
Top Guy(s): The people in your main event picture
Face of the Company: Person or persons who CARRY THE COMPANY.

I'm willing to admit anything that's correct and frankly, your opinion on Cena and this whole argument, really, is a puddle of horse shit.

Whoa....calm down there Lil Jimmy. We're having a conversation.

Variety is not always a good thing. Especially when it devalues the belt and tosses a bunch of guys into main events, when they shouldn't be there. For fuck's sake, Rikishi was the center of a huge storyline and main evented PPVs. RIKISHI!

i happened to like Rikishi.

You're kind of right about there not being one guy who carried the company,[thanks.] there were two. Rock and Austin. Take them out of the equation, hell, just Austin and the WWE might not exist today. They were the faces of the company.

Take Austin out of the attitude era, and the WWE may not exist today.
That just happened....lololol
Showed your age a lil bit there didn'tcha, lil Jimmy?
note to self, insertion of glossary was a success.

Hold on, that's asinine. They don't need to make anybody else the top guy, because they have the best... John FUCKING Cena.

I'm, ....i'm gonna stop here because the rest is more of the same.
John Cena's the best, you're time is up his time is now! duh dunna duuuhhhhhh...you're a hater blah blah blah yackedy smackedy
Again, i get that you like him and because you are the ultimate superfan, there will be NO conversing with you. Unlike some, I realize when good convo is falling on deaf ears.
So i'm gonna take my opinions and watch my taped episode of Raw. It may not be the best era of wrestling to watch, but its what I got and I'm gon watch it.....
hatin Cena all the live long day...

 

[The Champ]

You REALLY don't understand. And I get it. I totally understand. You are not just a Cena lover. You are THE Cena lover. You have failed not just to see another man's point of view. You have taken everything I said and made it into me bashing Cena. Why? Because you are a SuperFan.
Not a bad thing, I'd defend Shawn Michaels to the death too. So I get it.

The way you're definitively referring to one person as THE Cena lover makes it seem like you know every John Cena fan in the entire world. For every Crock, Slyfox, Hamler, DirtyJose, etc. on these boards, there are literally millions of people around the world who love Cena just as much, if not more.

But I do not share your opinion that he's great. I don't. I think he's just ok.

How is the most successful guy in the company "just okay"? That certainly reflects badly on everyone else who's less successful, doesn't it?

I think his gimmick was hot when it first debuted and nearly 8 years later, i've grown tired of it.

This despite the fact that his gimmick right now is nowhere NEAR what it was eight years ago...

It's stale and I would like to see him evolve, by natural progression or by him being forced to in order to stay relevant. That's my opinion of him. Its not right, its not wrong. It's my personal thought. I'm not giving you reasons based in hyperbole or irrational emotion. I'm not making up things to make someone believe in a theory I came up with. I'm saying he, TO ME, is just Ok.

You're entitled to have that opinion, but you also have to understand that WWE isn't going to change something that isn't broken. When Cena stops making money, they'll change him. Remember that the guy in your avatar has had more or less the same gimmick since, what, 1998? And he continues to have it, because it works. Also, the notion that Cena hasn't shown range in his character over the last couple of years is quite ridiculous.

If someone says to me, he's the greatest thing in wrestling today, I say, ok, well look at wrestling today! By comparison, he IS the greatest thing in wrestling today. Because wrestling today is just OK. Its not the best era in wrestling, they have top notch wrestlers but they're not telling the best stories...the hottest story in wrestling in YEAAAARSSS (including the beginning of the Nexus story) was the Summer of Punk and things got SUPER exciting again.

So how is it "just okay" if it's gotten really exciting as of late? And how is it "just okay" if they have top notch wrestlers? Can you elaborate on how you think they're not telling good stories?

If you honestly think this is the best era in wrestling history, I feel so sorry for what you've missed.

What about the people who watched the other eras and think this one is the best?

Hogan said something in a recent interview that made me understand this era of wrestling a little differently. He said back in the day if there was a feud started between he and Andre the Giant, you wouldn't get that match until almost a year later. They had time to build the feud and make it something that people HAD to buy. But in this day and age of technology and with so many different options that people have to jump online, flip the channel, play on your phone or what have you, the promoter has to put that match on as soon as the feud begins. Promoters don't have the time necessary to spend building a good story or getting the people anxious to see something. So everything is rushed. Storylines, pushes, merchandise...everything. So, though its no one person's fault, the fact of the matter is, compared to the golden age of wrestling, the era I grew up in, on to the Attitude era, this era of wrestling is simply, Ok.

How about The Rock vs. John Cena? You know, that match that we're not getting until more than a year after the feud started? Apparently it's still possible.

You said it yourself. Cena will never be more over than the Rock or Stone Cold. So by comparison can he even RATE next to Hogan? He is the Hogan of this era....but he is not, by any stretch of the imagination...Hogan.

He'll never be as over as those three guys because they were the first to do it, and they were popular in eras when wrestling was "cool." You can't really judge guys from different eras against each other like that. It's much easier to judge guys from the same era against each other, and Cena is better than anyone else in this era. And let's not pretend that this era doesn't have plenty of talented performers.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Sentence structure. Learn it, apply it, and love it.

Please look up the history of the WWE championship from 1996-2003

I don't need to look up something I already know.

Stone Cold has held the title roughly 6 times in his career.

"Roughly?" Why the hell would you use a term like that? Just say 6.

There was a point where he lost the title and didn't get it back for almost 2 years.

Let's just ignore the fact that he didn't wrestle for almost a year because of injury.

The Rock has held it about 7 times. (now we're just talking about the WWE championship not the WHC.) and by the way...(Triple H was a 5 time world champion during that time as well....dont tell nobody.)

Hopefully there will be a point to this.

Cena held the WWE title 3 times THIS YEAR.

What's the problem with that? The Rock won two titles in three weeks. Don't act like Cena is the only one.

Take Austin out of the attitude era, and the WWE may not exist today.
That just happened....lololol
Showed your age a lil bit there didn'tcha, lil Jimmy?
note to self, insertion of glossary was a success.

Who was the main figure who led WWE over WCW in the Monday Night Wars? It was that bald-halded guy who drank a lot of beer and flipped the bird to a lot of people. If you thought anyone could have done that, even The Rock, then go ahead.

 

[[cL]]

The way you're definitively referring to one person as THE Cena lover makes it seem like you know every John Cena fan in the entire world. For every Crock, Slyfox, Hamler, DirtyJose, etc. on these boards, there are literally millions of people around the world who love Cena just as much, if not more.

Sorry. That was wrong so i'll take that back.

How is the most successful guy in the company "just okay"?

He is the most successful guy in the company. He is the most successful wrestler in this era of wrestling. That's not in debate. I'm not debating anything having to do with his success or his importance to the WWE. I'm not debating anything about him as a person or as a wrestler. You ever had someone hype you up about a restaurant and got you all excited and then went and it wasn't as good as you thought it was going to be? As excited as his fans are about how great he is, to me, he's just ok. Why isn't that allowed?

You're entitled to have that opinion, but you also have to understand that WWE isn't going to change something that isn't broken. When Cena stops making money, they'll change him.

I said, almost exactly this earlier.

Remember that the guy in your avatar has had more or less the same gimmick since, what, 1998? And he continues to have it, because it works.

The difference is, i LIKE him. My wife and I have taco night every week, made the EXACT same way and I LOVE it. When I like something, I can have it the same way OVER and OVER and OVER again. Does Rock need to change? Maybe he does! To some, he CERTAINLY does. I'm a Rock fan. Just like you guys are Cena fans. I'm not mad at you. I'm really not! I respect Cena fans. I just think it sucks that Cena fans don't respect the intelligent anti-Cena people, who aren't trying to come up with a crap load of reasons and made up theories as to why he sucks to them. Believe me, I used to be a guy who would post based on emotion and quickly found out that thats a no-no. So rather than use theory or bias reason as to why I don't enjoy him, I just look at the facts and say how I see it. So you don't get bogus reasons or emotional responses from me.

People here like, vehemently defend Cena to the death and all I've said is that, I think he's just Ok. I didn't say he's the worst wrestler ever. I haven't said that he is the worst on the mic. I've never said he wasn't a good worker. In my opinion and its just mine, I feel that he's just OK. I dont' turn the TV off when he comes on. I watch his matches in full. At the end of the day, i'm not wowed by his performances and theres nothing wrong with that.

So how is it "just okay" if it's gotten really exciting as of late? And how is it "just okay" if they have top notch wrestlers? Can you elaborate on how you think they're not telling good stories?

Come on dude, be fair. My exact words were "Its not the best era in wrestling, they have top notch wrestlers but they're not telling the best stories...the hottest story in wrestling in YEAAAARSSS (including the beginning of the Nexus story) was the Summer of Punk and things got SUPER exciting again."
But be honest, though the storyline has continued to progress, is it as HOT as it was when it first started? IMO, No. Will it get more exciting? Hopefully! But has it or has it not tapered off in recent weeks? If you say no, thats fine. Its a matter of taste and you're entitled to that.

What about the people who watched the other eras and think this one is the best?

Man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. If they watched the era of Ric Flair, Dusty Rhodes, the Road Warriors, Terry Funk, Verne Gagne , the Von Erichs, the Freebirds, the Four Horsemen, Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Pedro Morales, Junk Yard Dog, Roddy Piper into the era of Stone Cold, the Rock, HHH, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, Big Show, The NWO, Sting, Luger, Evolution and so many more, and say that THIS era of wrestling is the best they've seen, then more power to them. Because I can't convince someone that this isn't the best era of wrestling that THEY'VE seen. Its just not the best era of wrestling that I'VE seen. You understand what i'm saying?

How about The Rock vs. John Cena? You know, that match that we're not getting until more than a year after the feud started? Apparently it's still possible.

The Rock isn't an active member of the WWE roster. I'm speculating here, but I think if had he come back on full time we probably would have seen that match already.

He'll never be as over as those three guys because they were the first to do it, and they were popular in eras when wrestling was "cool." You can't really judge guys from different eras against each other like that. It's much easier to judge guys from the same era against each other, and Cena is better than anyone else in this era. And let's not pretend that this era doesn't have plenty of talented performers.

I actually agree with a lot you've said here. But I do think that you can judge era's against each other and the only reason why I think that is because theirs got to be a measuring stick somewhere. But thats just what I think. Barring that, i agree with everything you've said here.

By the way, i've said it to you privately but i'll also say it openly. Thanks for being a poster that can have an intelligent conversation without being a tool. You're cool in my book.

New rule. I won't be responding to tools. No matter how good your point may be. If you act up, i'm not wasting my time.

 

[The Crock]

wow.
Please look up the history of the WWE championship from 1996-2003
Stone Cold has held the title roughly 6 times in his career. There was a point where he lost the title and didn't get it back for almost 2 years. The Rock has held it about 7 times. (now we're just talking about the WWE championship not the WHC.) and by the way...(Triple H was a 5 time world champion during that time as well....dont tell nobody.)
Cena held the WWE title 3 times THIS YEAR.
Why? Because he's that good? Or...because no one else is good enough...
...YOU know why...lol.
(for clarity sake, no one else is good enough...or did you already know where I was going with that...?)

Much like LJL said, you're skewing the information in your favor here. He was injured for the better part of a year. He held the title 6 times, once losing it to Kane at King of the Ring and winning it back the next night on RAW. What about when Rock lost the title to Mankind, lost it two days later, then won it back twenty days later. Are we just going to ignore those? Or the countless other reigns that lasted twenty to thirty-something days?

Triple H held the title 5 times then, yes, but why isn't HE the top guy when Cena is around, if he was that good?

You're wrong.


DX, Triple H, The Rock, Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mankind and the Undertaker were all doing their parts to carry the company through the attitude era. Stone Cold and Rock may have been the most over, but the reality is we wanted to see ALL of them and each one had a very distinct quality that kept them in main event status. I never said that their world title runs were the REASON they were main eventers. I simply said, they WERE the top guys.
For future reference though:
Glossary:
Top Guy(s): The people in your main event picture
Face of the Company: Person or persons who CARRY THE COMPANY.

Not particularly. Rock and Austin are the reason the WWF survived, specifically Austin, but I'll address that later. All those other guys may have drawn some people, but they weren't top guys. Your top guys were Rock and Austin, then you had some other main eventers, but nobody could compare to Rock and Austin.

WrestleMania VIV, XV, 2000, and X-7 all had either Rock or Austin (or both) in the main event. There was a reason they were always main eventing the biggest shows, trust me. There was a reason they were always around the WWE Title, because they made everybody else in the matches look like gold. Take Rock and Austin out of the main event and they were still the highlight of the show, clearly proving that they were the ONLY two guys who deserve to be discussed.

i happened to like Rikishi.

I did too, but not as a main eventer.

Take Austin out of the attitude era, and the WWE may not exist today.
That just happened....lololol
Showed your age a lil bit there didn'tcha, lil Jimmy?
note to self, insertion of glossary was a success.

How is that not true? WCW was bashing WWF in the ratings, WWF was on its last legs, when Austin 3:16 was born. There's proof. The nWo and Eric Bischoff had Vince McMahon's number. Austin breaks his neck at Summerslam, WWF's popularity goes down, he comes back and the rest is history.

Later on, guys like Rock, Triple H, and Kurt Angle stepped up and held the ratings down for RAW, but only because WCW had gone to shit. DX, Foley, and Undertaker were around before Austin got big, yet the WWF was getting wrecked by WCW. Austin is what did it.

Now, as for whatever else you're saying, I'm just not seeing it. You're a Rock fan, who claims Cena is boring. Rock is using the same catchphrases he used over ten years ago. There's nothing new about him either, yet you don't think he sucks because of it. You say he "may need a change," but what makes him any different than Cena? Cena does what he does because it works, Rock does what he does because it works. Cena isn't "ok," he's an all-time great. You may not like him, but there should be no debate about how good he is. He goes above and beyond what most wrestlers before him ever did and probably what most after him will ever do. Don't blame Cena because you don't like today's product or whatever, as he's shown to be a better option than some of the very guys you mentioned from the Attitude Era. 'Taker, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Kurt Angle -- They all took a back seat to John Cena.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Awwww. Looks like I touched a little nerve in [cL]. It feels so good knowing that I can still do that. I'm sure you'll respond to this directly or indirectly because you just can't help it.

I don't see how it is a detriment to Cena's legacy that he is the only supposed "top guy" in the company. How is that in any way Cena's fault? More profit was made after HHH's reign of doom from 2003-2005 and I don't hold that against HHH because The Rock and Austin left and Angle and Jericho were never going to be as big as some wanted them to be. I guarantee that if Cena and Batista hadn't become as big as they did, we would be talking about HHH the same way you are talking about Cena now.

 

[Mattysandwich7]

It seems that the majority of people on here don't know the definition of "opinion"... just let [cL] have his damn opinion on Cena. I agree with the majority of what he said. I don't think Cena is as great as most people say, I just think he is OK. I don't care for him much...at all. I'd like there to be more people other than Cena and Blandey Borton to have the damn belt, wich is what we are getting(at least so far). I also find it hilarious that when I was talking about this being a Cena COMPLAINTS thread and that if people wanna make a Cena Praise thread then they should, I was told that it was a "DISCUSSION" thread when the title was still clearly The Complaints Thread. The next fucking day I go on and it was changed to discussion. Hmmm. I wonder why??? Probably because the Cena lovers started berating everybodies opinion, like mine... I posted my opinion on the matter and certain individuals tried to make me come across like I was some kind of idiot, It's pretty sad that they say "discussion" but yet the past 3 fucking pages was people berating and trying to change [cL]'s opinion and calling his opinion wrong. Opinions are not wrong! Nor are they right! This fanbase is rediculous sometimes. Anyway continue on with all your opinion bashing...

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I've said it once and I will say it again, I just don't fully get why Cena gets so much hate on these forums and I never will.

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but people are also entitled to not agreeing with ones opinion and debating them on it, if you don't like people disagreeing with you then I suggest you stop posting on these forums (even if people think your opinions are straight up ridiculous and ******ed). Handle it or stop posting and write a blog or something with no place for others to insert comments, or just don't bother writing your opinions.

Back to what I was saying though I do like Cena but there are others that I think could have a shot at the title. With that said Cena has more than proven himself time and time again and no one on the roster is more deserving of being the face of the WWE than John Cena. No one has more dedication and no one works harder to be the top dog in the WWE. Whether you like Cena or you don't is your own personal opinion but if you can't respect WHY he's the top dog then its a shame you have to shit on everything because a person with the IQ of Forrest Gump can see why Cena is in his current spot.

He has put on great matches (and don't give me he's also put on bad matches, EVERYONE has had bad matches), does a great job on the mic, has charisma, has a loyal fan base, constantly improves, has put over 90% of the roster and can carry his own weight against anyone whether its a match or a feud.

You don't have to like Cena, or agree with me when I say the guy is great, but if you can't see why he is where he is then I can only come to the conclusion you bitch for the sake of bitching.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

It seems that the majority of people on here don't know the definition of "opinion"... just let [cL] have his damn opinion on Cena. I agree with the majority of what he said. I don't think Cena is as great as most people say, I just think he is OK. I don't care for him much...at all. I'd like there to be more people other than Cena and Blandey Borton to have the damn belt, wich is what we are getting(at least so far). I also find it hilarious that when I was talking about this being a Cena COMPLAINTS thread and that if people wanna make a Cena Praise thread then they should, I was told that it was a "DISCUSSION" thread when the title was still clearly The Complaints Thread. The next fucking day I go on and it was changed to discussion. Hmmm. I wonder why??? Probably because the Cena lovers started berating everybodies opinion, like mine... I posted my opinion on the matter and certain individuals tried to make me come across like I was some kind of idiot, It's pretty sad that they say "discussion" but yet the past 3 fucking pages was people berating and trying to change [cL]'s opinion and calling his opinion wrong. Opinions are not wrong! Nor are they right! This fanbase is rediculous sometimes. Anyway continue on with all your opinion bashing...

How come you just noticed? I would think that someone like you would have bragged a about a while before.

Anyway my opinion of John Cena is very similar to what has been said in the above posts (not the one I am quoting nor anything as extreme as to what CROCK! is doing)

I think that Cena is better than the hater give him credit for, though not as much of a Wrestling God as the supporters claim him to be. You do not have to be god to carry WWE. Was Austin a wrestling god? Was Rock a wrestling god? NO they were not they were just really good superstars that had charisma, storytelling, and all of the intangibles of wrestling needed to become a top guy. Cena is great, he is not horrible, and he is not the best guy ever.