[cL];3440293 said:
Taking five years to go platinum is not a successful album. I don't care how much money it HAS made by now. It took 5 years. If it had done as well as you're saying he would have done another record. It would have been demanded. ...but hey...maybe it was demanded and it just never happened.
With the amount of Cena haters I see claiming they miss the Rap Cena days (not you, mind you, at least I don't think so), I think a new album by Cena would likely be well received. Again, probably not going to break records, but it also isn't going to be a Bucky Larson level flop. Either way, it made money and wasn't critically shat upon by all reviewers. Maybe if that had been the case you would have a point here.
Also, just a thought: when you were reading Wikipedia about this, did you happen to read it as "it took this long to reach x units sold", or did you happen to notice that it said (there and anywhere about the album) that is had sold that many as of the date? Because there is quite a difference between the two, and I'm guessing you didn't notice it.
I'm not defending Rock. I'm talking about Cena.
But you frequently resort to Rock and Hogan as part of your argument, and in particular you used Rock's promo against Cena as your basis here. I mean, go ahead and do your usual thing of ducking the point, but this is valid. You're going to use kayfabe insults as part of your debate, but you back away from defense of the source? Interesting style, champ.
When I compare Cena to Hogan, I'm not comparing their work ethic or love for the business. I'm comparing their in-ring persona. That is all.
Which, by the way, was insanely successful so if there's something worth taking influence from it's that. But back to your comment, that is a lie. You have previously compared the two and theorized that Cena should be more like Hogan in a variety of ways. I'm merely pointing out a few of the differences between them which characterize Cena in the better light and show a clear dedication to the business which you doubt.
Not really. You take everything so personally and you sidetrack away from points you bring up when an argument is presented that you don't feel like taking up. You've admitted even to playing up your opinions as factual basis for statements that you now recognize as being inaccurate. Your entire argument is built on biased speculation and kayfabe promo material. You can hate my abrasive nature all you want, but it won't change the fact that you just can't admit that you have your panties in a twist about everything here. See below:
See. This is the thing about me. I am 100% pure GUY. When i feel attacked i'm going to attack. Right or Wrong i'm going to attack. Now had you come at me earlier with some reasoning without all of the jabs and insults, not only would I have recanted some of my argument, I would have agreed and said you were correct. I'm not a person who can't admit that he's wrong but my pride will not let me allow someone to attack me maliciously for my opinion. I can give emotional responses, but I also can admit being wrong and get down to the meat of my argument. Had you not been so insulting we could have gotten to this point sooner.
That's nice. You're ALL MAN, MAN! It's the fucking internet, baby; it's not like I slapped your mother in the face. Take it on the chin like a real man and move on. Or, maybe, just try not being wrong from the get go. Plenty of others around here are post valid and thought provoking criticisms of Cena. Maybe try learning from them instead of spouting off hyperbolic drivel laced with petty theories rooted in fanboy hatred.
I meant regarding Cena, silly. Reading: try it.
come on. you
know its spite. admit it. its ok, we're friends now.
Bi-polar baby, you gotta make up your mind. One day I'm the biggest douche on planet Earth, and now we're friends. You're tearing me apart!
Now we're gettin somewhere.
Err...that's what I was saying...and then you stopped. Well, it was good while it lasted.
Lets not ignore how i NEVER said anything about him turning heel.
I didn't accuse you of making that insinuation, so forgive me for clearing the way of the immediate comparison to be made of Hollywood Hogan and Cena which has been done to death and beyond on these boards. Jeez, you always think everything's about you.
What? Where did that come fro...listen I don't care how evolution takes place. I would just like to see him, for the sake of the business, do something different. I'm not asking for anything specific to take place. I'd just like to see him DO SOMETHING different that would make fans all over kinda stop and be like...whoa? Is that Cena? Wow he did that? Did you hear his promo? Wow he said that? Something surprising. Something not like the norm. Thats all i'm saying. Tune up what you're already doing, and make something different happen.
Evolve.
But the only things you would really have that kind of reaction to would be for him to either do something off-color and less PG than his usual schtick or for him to do some sort of heel thing. No, you haven't said that yourself, but that's really all that's left. He adds new moves to his matches all the time, and you people just don't notice or don't find it enough of a change. He pulls the rap card out for The Rock to tear him apart verbally, and still you cry that he can't do anything on the mic. So what do you want him to do? Reinvent the wheel just to please the vocal minority? I'm not saying that he can't be a little stale at times, but I happen to find most anyone at his level stale by the time they reach the top going back for years and years.
I said, the undertaker gimmick was one of the greatest of all time, and I liked that over the years his character has changed up. He changed his costume and gave fans something else....they didn't like it so he went back but at least he tried something new. I gotta give him props for that. You can't be in the business 20 somethin years and not do something new. Cena's been in the business what 9 years now? I'm guessing....but for about 6-7 of those years we've seen the same thing. and all I'm saying is...change it up.
And, oddly enough, those Undertaker changes coincided with the sharpest decline in ratings the WWE has ever seen. I'm not saying it alone was the reason for decline, that would be foolish. But it's certainly one among many reasons that the majority just stopped watching. Wrestling is popular for it's iconic characters, the best of which become dependable and consistent and timeless. Someone who's followed Undertaker since childhood tunes in to see him in action and WTF, who is this generic looking biker dude? Nevermind, I wonder if football is on...
i don't want him to duplicate anyones gimmick. I want him to evolve what he has. Is that so wrong?
Mick Foley was a poor comparison to make then. No, it's not really so wrong to want something different. It is, however, inaccurate to list various gimmicks of various levels of success and expect it to prove some sort of point about how Cena HAS to change as opposed to just you WANTING him to change.
i almost choked on my sandwich here.
John Cena, losing momentum? Is that possible?
Well, yes actually. See also: The Undertaker argument from above.
Here's why not. Because he is the face of the company. WWE=John Cena
He's built up in a way that people are supposed to love him. He's the goody goody. A man of the people. The kind of man people are supposed to want to aspire to be. If he says, "screw the rest of you, i'm just going to show love to those who love me", then it goes against the persona. Right?
Not really. He doesn't say "screw you" to the haters. He's polite to them, he doesn't pretend they don't exist just because they don't like him. He poses with them and gives them attention at ringside just as much as he does his fans and *GASP* shows them respect. I'd call that being a much better role model than you paint him out to be. See also: The Champ's sig, where Cena spent his post-Wrestlemania big moment with haters, and likely made their night.
I know for a fact that everyone didn't love Rock or Austin, but it was clear that when Rock or Austin were heels or faces that the bulk if not all of the crowd were pretty much decisive on what position they were taking. Nothing at ALL like what Cena gets.
But you still don't answer the question: why is it ok for Austin and Rock to do the same old acts and same old lines for their fan base but when Cena does it it's a cop out? Double standards, of course.
and THIS is one of the reasons why I have issues with the entire WWE. Back in the day there were SO many main event players. Now you have John Cena on one level and then the main eventers, and everyone else. When I say that I mean this. John Cena is so set apart from everyone else, that he is above main event status. He isn't on the level of regular main eventers. He's bigger than the business. And when that happens, its hard on everyone else. Back in the day there were more people to like. Right now we've got Punk and Orton. Who, in my opinion, are the closest people to where Cena is but still a far cry away. And that sucks.
So why take that out on Cena when it's not his fault? Why waste your time and energy debating how Cena should change to please you when you could be describing what Orton and Punk need to do to get to the next level? I don't get this about the Cenahaternation; you're so much more content to hate Cena that you'll boo for him louder than you'll cheer for the guys you do like. Instead of bringing signs for your favorite dudes, you'll bring anti-Cena signs. Instead of chanting Punk or Orton or whoever, you'll counter a Cena chant with "Cena Sucks". How else is WWE supposed to react when they see that you'll spend time and money on a product and focus only on Cena one way or the other over anyone else on the roster?
..or... they are just as tired of Cena as we are.
If you people were really tired of Cena, you'd stop putting so much effort into making it known and focus that energy elsewhere (see above).
No, he no-sells a lot. Totally believe that.
Making a comeback is not "no-selling". "No-selling" is taking offense and failing to make any reaction to it. For fuck's sake, Cena lost a title to Sheamus selling a botched table bump as best as he could.
see there are a number of ways a person can change. He doesn't have to do a complete 180, but evolve your character. If he stayed with the Hustle Loyalty Respect thing forever and made some major and minor tweaks along the way, I'd be happy. He doesn't have to lose his fan base. But there's nothing wrong with doing what you can to change the minds of the millions if you can.
The only changes and tweaks I see for Cena's future before some sort of possible heel turn down the road is a new catchphrase or joke to repeat perhaps, the same kind of change other top stars make in their time at the top. I'd really like to know what kind of changes exactly you want to see, or do you even really know what you want?
Considering his merch sells more than practically all other superstars combined, even with Punk's new shirt, no, it's not really that debatable. Of course, you can try. I get the feeling though, like the REAL GUY that you are, that you're going to just back away from this instead as usual.
I disagree. Rock may have kept the essence of who he was but over time his wardrobe changed, he added catchphrases and drop old ones (know your role kinda faded out) and nearing the end of his time he started singing with the guitar. That may not be major change but again..minor tweaks here and there to spice up otherwise old material. Even Austin made minor tweaks here and there...he got funny near the end of his tenure and don't forget we have him to thank for the "WHAT" chants...MINOR tweaks. The Undertaker underwent minor tweaks during the his entire career up until the MAJOR ABA tweak....But anyway yeah i'm not talking about heel/face changes. Just evolution to your character...however he does it. Just try something different.
Again...Rock and Undertaker change up costumes once in awhile, and it's enough. Cena changes gear once in awhile and it's not enough. Austin adds some dry humor and it's gold. Cena makes some clearly dry and sarcastic humor, and it's garbage. Double standards strike again. He's made small changes even in just the few years I've been watching him, yet it's not enough for you guys. So please, tell me what else would need to change for you to be happy.
you go tit for tat with me, demean and belittle anyone who has a difference of opinion with you and I'M acting like a child?
Good one.
Hey, I've agreed with others in this thread who take a side I don't really feel. You're really the only one to feel they had to defend it as "I'M A MAN DAMNIT AND I WILL ATTACK!" just like some super sensitive adolescent teenager would. I haven't even just singled you out, despite what you think. I've got this other guy to dance with too.
Fuck it, I'll take 'em both, I'M HARDCORE!
You want some evidence of Cena burying people? The Royal Rumble. The Nexus was destroying everybody in the match. I think they even elminated Kevin Nash although I may be wrong about that that. Well anyway Cena's metrosexual music hits and here he comes to the ring and without breaking a sweat proceeds to eliminate the whole damn group. My God, I thought evolution was supposed to happen forward. However WWE is devolving or evolving backwards.
MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT! I MEAN IT'S ALMOST AS IF CENA CAME OUT PREPARED TO DEAL WITH THE GROUP THAT HAD BEEN ON A CRUSADE AGAINST HIM FOR ALMOST A YEAR!
Also, metrosexual? Care to explain that one? You just might be the most ignorant piece of shit I've come across in months. Let's just start with this: how the fuck is music "metrosexual"?
You had realistic awesome wrestling with Brock Lesnar and Kurt Angle just 8 years ago, and then we slowly time traveled back to 80's WWF. The only thing missing is Doink The Clown, although I guess Santino Marella sort of counts to fill that role. Fans of Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle and Triple H style wrestling are the ones who revolted when Cena was pushed into the main event. My God, you would think Vince would have seen what happened with Hogan and the NWO. Fans with knowledge, (your core wrestling audience) don't want a Superman who has no technical wrestling ability and trips over his own feet when he walks as Champion.
Actually, "fans with knowledge" or "smarks" always have been and always will be the minority of the WWE fanbase. Sorry. That includes you, me, and most everyone on this board. We are the minority.
Also, if you want super technical wrestling with none of the cartoonishness, there are other products for you to enjoy. WWE knows where it's bread is buttered and it's not going to change.
Finally, this might be the first time I've ever heard of HHH being to referred to as a technical wrestler. LULZ.
If the fact that we don't wear panties or pajamas and don't cum in said panties and piss in said pajamas when Cena appears on tv makes us bigoted assholes, then so be it.
No, between "metrosexual music" and this statement, you do a rather fine job of painting yourself as a bigoted asshole.
On a side subject, political correctness can kiss my ass. I'm not gonna kiss a demographics ass just so they won't get their feelings hurt.
Funny that you expect Cena and the WWE to do just that for you.
I say this because it's very telling when a majority of a guys fanbase is women and kids. Typically there's a reason for that..... YOU SUCK. Women and kids love Cena, not for the fact that he's a wrestler, but because of his branding and the fact that women think he's good looking. If being good looking means you are a great wrestler, then hell, why not bring Brad Pitt in for a year or two, and he would instantly become a 17 time World Champion.
Well, two other fine gentlemen have proven earlier that your statement of the women and children thing being false. I detect jealousy here; did your girlfriend leave you because she wanted boyfriend who didn't look and smell like dog shit left in a basement for 3 months? Cena draws, sells good merch, works at length without needing much time off at all or getting himself into trouble, and he's easily marketable; I'd call that being a good pro wrestler.
Edge won the majority of his title's on Smackdown, which I honestly don't really like to count the "World Heavyweight Championship" as a title anymore. Having two titles is fucking stupid anyway, seeing as nobody watches Smackdown. Oh, and using holds and knowing moves IS what makes you a great technical wrestler.
Well well well, you paint yourself as more ******ed every time you post. As has been pointed out to you, with factual evidence available to back it up, Smackdown does good ratings, in fact it gets the best ratings on it's network. So there's one point shot down in flames.
Then there's the "using holds and knowing moves". I mean, I've seen Cena use lots of holds. And I know for fact that he knows some moves because everyone around can agree he knows at least 5 of them. Wanna rethink your criteria, baby?
If it wasn't then there would be no point, and you would just have celebrities come in and become World Champions. It sure did wonders for WCW when they tried doing it. Vince Russo had that same mindset and it basically killed WCW. And yes I know about the AOL merger shit which was also a big reason for WCW dying. Besides, Cena makes money despite the fact that he sucks because he can't be depushed. He is being pushed to the moon and keeps winning the title even though he doesn't need it to be over with his "CeNation". If you market a good looking guy with muscles as "Superman" then obviously women and kids are going to spend money on his shit. That fact doesn't make you a great wrestler.
Worked for The Rock.
THell, here's a youtube video that shows a better argument than I can put into words right now.
A blank wall shows a better argument than you can put into words. I love how often you resort to someone else's posts or a youtube video to make a point that your feeble mind can string together yourself. Go loosen the straps on your ****** helmet, baby.
The only story that is told in a Cena match is that the sheep women and kiddies want to see Cena win and the die-hard fans want to see him lose. That fact is not something that has occured through some form of tangible talent that Cena has to tell stories. That fact originated from the fact that die-hard fans don't like Cena and don't want him in the main event. Cena gets X-Pac Heat as a face.
I see some pretty die-hard fans around here telling you that you're full of shit, so there goes that idea. You don't really mean to say "die-hard" fans, what you mean to say is "Attitude Era enthusiasts", a particular group of jackasses who fail to recognize that their cherished past time went belly up in the ratings once the gimmick of "attitude" wore off.
I personally believe my reasons for hating Cena are valid.
You also believe that music can be "metrosexual", so believe all you want but it still won't make you right.
I just hate sheep. I hate that the majority of Cena's fans like him because they've been subliminally told to like him. If Cena was so talented, then why did Vince FORCE him down everyone's throats.
I bet Vince would love to have the power to force whoever he wanted down our throats and have them be anywhere near as successful as Cena. Then he would never run out of money. I mean, why didn't he try this or think of it sooner? Oh, I know, it's because that would never work. Has it ever occured to you that Cena is so ever-present in the WWE because fans tuned in for it, and because they asked for it? I don't like Cena because I've been programmed to; I enjoy him at times because he can be enjoyable. Jeez, you talk like some anti-conformist douche bag teenager. Grow the fuck up, brat.
Sure Cena was getting cheered as a heel during his thuganomics gimmick, but even that gimmick sucked. Guys like Stone Cold and The Rock were made faces and main eventers because the fans asked for it while they were still heel. That may be true to a certain extent about Cena too, but he became this watered down, corny, lame, fruit loop warrior that is hated by millions of people.
Except the millions who buy his stuff and go to shows to see him and buy PPV's to see him and cheer him when comes out.
Cena was exposed badly by Dwayne a few months back, then Vince made Dwayne come on Raw and cut a promo where he says that he respects Cena but he just doesn't like him instead of ripping him for not being talented and sucking.
Oh yes, VINCE MADE HIM SAY THAT. Lulz. You are such a blind fucking mark, it's absurd. You really take this shit waaaaaay too seriously. You should seek help. I bet you are one unpleasant person to know in real life.
Guys back in the day ripped each other all the time, but apparently Cena's character has to be protected. My God, Austin and Rock lost clean quite a bit. Hell Austin beat Rock clean, so God forbid Punk beat Cena clean. Promote a whole Goddamn ppv where there will be an undisputed WWE Champion and have a clear winner, yet when Punk pins Cena, Cena's foot just has to be on the bottom rope. Fucking bullshit. It's also bullshit that Cena was able to power out of a fucking ARMBAR!!. That CANNOT be done.
You may have been able to sell that shit in the 80's, but in today's MMA world, it looks completely stupid. If that's not the definition of burying Alberto Del Rio, I don't know what is.
Burying Alberto Del Rio would be dropping him from the title scene immediately and also dropping him from Raw and delegating him to Superstars if he's lucky, where he's be jobbing to Regal or something.
Anyone following your posts can tell by this point that you aren't really interested in making any kind of valid argument, but that instead you are a raving lunatic who will say and believe anything so long as it justifies your hatred and jealousy of a man who you will probably never actually meet in real life. Please bring on another post; I'd love to see where your crazy takes you now.
