**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[Headman]

I might be the only one here who truly thinks Cena is awesome. Sure he gets stale at time to time but, he is the only guy in the biz who can become series at any giving time he needs. He isn't afraid of any challenge or stipulation and he goes into the fight a man and he walks out a man. Cena may please the little kids an all but he speaks a lot for adults to. His message is never give up and never back down and that message speaks a lot to me. I understand what Cena means when he speaks and you can feel every emotion he uses when he speaks into the mic. I find his jokes to be funny as I have a weird sense of humor. Cena is one of the best there is as he is himself when he is out there on RAW every week. My best friend’s dad’s girlfriend's friend went to school with John Cena and told me he is the same person in the ring as he is outside of the ring. That says a lot. So to me Cena is awesome and I enjoy him when he is on my TV whether he be wrestling or giving a promo I enjoy the guys work.


Since this is a complain thread about John Cena, my complaint is this. Cena add the drop kick to your move list a little more often. Also learn how to do the sharp shooter to make Rocky tap out to it at WM 28. Those are my two complaints.

Nah, the STF will make him tap just fine. And that ending would be worth it just as a jab to the Miami crowd.

But I agree with your position on Cena. I enjoy his matches and promos. I don't find him any more stale than anyone else in the WWE. There's a lot of guys who've been doing the same thing for years, and the ones who aren't doing the same thing is because the last thing they did wasn't working. I remember a time when Triple H got these complaints... "He's burying this guy", "He never loses", and I'm dating myself a bit but I remember when this stuff was said about Hogan. Goodle the rec.sports.pro-wrestling and check the history all the way back to 1990 and you'll see me and a bunch of other wrestling "nerds" bitching about the same crap people talk about today. It's been this way for years, only the internet has gotten way more crowded.

 

[PunkNation26]

From Cena's Twitter-
"...stop looking at this bizz in black and white. I am not a “heel” or a “face,” I am me. I find it comical that u truly believe. That archaic ideology still exists. Today, wwe fans cheer for who they please, which is why I love this company. I should mail u a pair of my shorts, because your stuck in 1993."

I want to actually agree with this tweet from Cena but I can't. The reason is because it isn't true as much as I want it to be. If it was true, WWE security wouldn't confiscate anti-Cena signs and Vince wouldn't push certain guys a certain way. For example, WWE has went out of it's way to portray Christian as a cowardly bitch heel.

They made the guy sell out his own fans along with the typical marks. If what Cena said about guys just being who they are was true, then Christian could've said thank you to his supporters and told the rest to fuck off, instead of telling the entire fanbase to fuck off.

Now I know, that Christian's fans are smart enough to not let that keep them from supporting them. I'm just saying that what Cena said isn't accurate as much as I wish it was. It would be awesome if heels could win clean and faces could lose clean. It would add a ton of depth to the wrestlers character depth.

Kurt Angle is the best example of how I think a heel should be allowed to work. The way he works in TNA as a defined heel in his matches is great. He doesn't go all cowardly and all of a sudden forget how to wrestle and cheat out of desperation. A perfect example of the way the clear cut face and heel divide still exists is the Matt Hardy MVP feud a few years back.

When Hardy was face, MVP couldn't hope to even have a competitive match against him. A while later when Hardy turned heel, he couldn't hope to beat MVP. So I guess I'll say Cena is wrong.

 

[The Champ]

The argument that Cena is a phony because he might not actually believe his "credo" doesn't make any sense to me. First of all, I do think he believes it, you can call me naive if you want. But even if he doesn't, he doesn't have to. The man is playing a character. He's designed to be a role model for young children and he's going to be given catchphrases or slogans that give off that positive vibe. That's no more phony than, say, CM Punk pandering to the audience every week when he said that they were just as much a part of his problems with WWE in his initial shoot. They're both playing face characters and they're both going to do things to get the audience behind them. That's how wrestling works.

 

[PunkNation26]

CM Punk was hated when he gave his shoot promo. The CeNation still hates him. Yet as a heel during the contract negotiation he had with Vince, he brought up WWE Ice Cream bars. Him bringing up ice cream bars was something he said on his own. Oh and here's something I thought of.

Cena and Hogan are mainstream celebrities now. They are no longer simply "wrestling characters." We'll disagree until the end of time, but I still say Cena is a phony. To be fair, Hogan's a phony too, but atleast he admitted it back in 95.

I keep bringing Hogan up for a reason. Think about it, he was the Cena of the 80's, telling kids to take their vitamins and say their prayers and one day they could be big and strong like him. However, unbeknownst to those little kiddies, Hogan was sticking a needle in his ass every week in order to "Hulk Up". So you see, I'll probably be provin' right some years from now when Cena gets exposed. I'll also say that I personally believe that Cena got his physique with steroids.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Rock drew viewers who were fans of the old days. Not saying that doesn't count or anything, but it's just fact that these are people who by and large turned off as soon as 2002 was over. You could try to make the argument that they left because of Cena, but the numbers will prove you wrong (thank you Slyfox for making those figures so easy to access!). So I'd call that less having to do with "style" and more to do with "nostalgia".

I am not talking about Rock drawing in the fans in 2010. I am talking about 1998-2001 in general and stating that it more or less proves that Rock's style was on the whole better than that of Cena. You can argue that Austin and Foley and Triple H played a huge part too but it is not as if The Rock was some sideshow who coul have easily been ignored.

Cena isn't primarily a "funny guy" anymore, he just does the "funny" act from time to time. And, again, if we're talking boring, look no further than The Rock's same played out canned responses. Rock's promos are "write by numbers", with little paper inserts of all his catchphrases and played out jokes tagged to make it easier to assemble. Substance and style are equally important in this industry, and while you can argue that Rock has the latter, I've already demonstrated to you (and gotten you concede to the fact) that Cena's got the substance.

I've conceded nothing. I've been saying it from the first post itself that Cena has little substance when he tries to be funny. He has great material as an intense guy. Niether am I saying that he is a funny guy. I know he does the funny thing from time to time despite not being one which makes it all the more strange.

And yes, on paper Rock's promos are boring. Why? Because they consist of the same old catchphrases and jokes but when they are played out, the whole crowd is interested in it. A clear indication of the fact that his evergreen style camouflages his lack of substance. Is it the same for Cena?

The two are very different, this is true. But Rock wasn't always that. Rock tried to be was Cena is at one time, and failed for it. Not only did he fail at it, but crowds chanted things like "DIE ROCKY DIE", which is a far cry from the "CENA SUCKS" chants which pop up these days. There wasn't a split like there is for Cena nowadays; the crowd UNIVERSALLY rejected him.

I'm talking about both guys at their peaks. Not sure what you are trying to get at here.

I'd say Cena doesn't really do the "antihero" type. I can see where you are trying to come from with this, but it's false. If he stands up to someone like McMahon, he's doing so within the "hero" gimmick he has. A "hero" doesn't cower to the boss when he doesn't believe the boss is right (going back to the previous ******'s comments about Cena being a hypocrite). Cena stands up for what he believes in, and encourages others to do so as well. Hardly makes him an anti-hero.

You can see nothing actually. I am not talking about him going up against Mr McMahon. That is perfectly understandable. I am talking about him dishing out unrequired amount of punishment to guys like Barrett and Batista when he already had the match won. I am talking about him making fat jokes at the expense of Vickie Guerrero. I am talking about him stealing Alberto Del Rio's car. That is not what a role model for the kids does.

JBL was how long ago? Yeah, that's right. Cat sex and vomiting made me laugh, btw, and that's hardly "poopy" jokes. The fact is that it's a matter of taste. You CAN say that you just don't find Cena funny. You CAN'T say that Cena isn't funny because he makes off color jokes because the folk that you idealize made the same kind of jokes; they were just allowed to use harsher language while doing so.

Like I said earlier, I idealized Rock's jokes because of the way he said it not what he said. Most of the time I cared that he owned his opponent. I could care less about how he did it. JBL was probably 3 years ago and so what? Isn't it during the time Cena was in his present character. There are more examples if you need them.

Again, I'm going to start asking you guys to cite these toilet jokes because I'm convinced they don't happen nearly as often as you types make it seem. More often than not he's in a "back against the wall" situation with a heel/rival. This year alone he went from Miz to Punk to Del Rio. Only in the case with The Miz can I recall any promos which skewed towards being humorous, and even then not all of them were, just a few.

OK, what were those lines again on the go-home show to MITB. Something about him wanting to poop on Vince and stamp on him. He makes poop jokes against almost every opponent he feuds against. Because initially he is in his fun, relaxed mode of his and it is not until the heel actually does something against him that he goes into the "serious Cena" mode.

There are plenty of examples. I can remember him telling that Miz will never say "I'm The Miz and I have testicles." It happens more than you think.

The one with the prayer to God, right? Hardly classic. Let's analyze:

1: "It doesn't matter"? Check.
2: "Know your role"? Check.
3: "If you smell..."? Check.

It's said to be one of Rock's best promos. So what if they contained catchphrases? They did not contain poopy humor as far as I can recall. Telling someone that he sucks isn't an example of poopy humor. Also it is much better than saying that "Alex Riley eats toilet paper". A line earlier Cena was talking about something completly different.

I hear about Cena promos being scripted or forced, but these feel just as padded and forced. You can argue all you like about style, but again, it's all subjective based on what you find stylish. There really isn't a right or wrong. What we can debate on is substance, and Rock really didn't have much of that until his heel turn towards the end when his promos actually became less of the same old 3 or 4 phrases in between awkward jokes. You've admitted so yourself. You don't speak for the masses just as much as I don't, so you're really in no position to say what people liked about Rock as fact; you can only speculate or share what YOU personally liked about him

.

Style is not as subjective as you might think. We have both established that Rock's content was not the best. In fact it is a stellar arguement that it wasn't and can be used as fact. It is not opinion based.

Yet what is it that made The Rock work and work so well? It has to be style doesn't it?

Also let us come to Cena. When he jokes, he uses the same material as Rock used. His jokes are not as well recieved as Rock's were. So when they have almost the same substance, what must be the differentiating factor. Has to be style.

Furthermore, what's the point in bringing Rock, or for that matter Austin, into this anyway? It's apples and oranges. Pointing at Rock and saying you liked his promos better doesn't invalidate Cena as a superstar. It certainly doesn't help your case that Cena got the better of most all of their verbal exchanges.

How about you stick to Cena and leave Rocky out of this? It's not a very good comparison and it simply plays upon the Attitude Era fanboyism to make a weak case against Cena. How about you try criticizing Cena by his own merits and standards instead of the rose tinted lens of nostalgia?

That is something that Cena's fans should learn more than me. Countless times I have seen this criticism of Cena being answered by "Oh Rock used the same kind of humor." They need to leave The Rock alone more than us. Try justifying Cena's use of poopy, unfunny jokes without bringing The Rock into the equation.

And yes, it is a genuine criticism of Cena. It is something that goes against his character. Look at the reaction for his jokes. They are rather subdued as compared to the reactions that he gets in his other non funny promos. That tells me that the crowd is not as much into his jokes as the rest of his stuff.

 

[The Champ]

Wait, so Cena is phony because you think he takes steroids? Even though it's well documented that he hits the gym hard as hell and you have no evidence to support your belief whatsoever? I mean, I'm not ruling it out entirely, but it seems stupid to me to call someone a phony based on an assumption. Also, you're very misguided if you don't think Cena's ever come up with his own material in promos. Wade Barrett, who worked extensively with Cena last year, said in an interview that Cena ad libs a lot during promos. So Punk ad libbing the ice cream bar thing isn't a good argument either, because Cena does the same thing on a regular basis.

 

[PunkNation26]

My belief that he got his physique with steroids is only one of the reasons I think he is a phony. I don't believe in that Hustle Loyalty and Respect crap as it is nothing more than a WWE marketing campaign. Cena is basically a generic made gimmick with the only real thing about him being his name. Now I know that all wrestlers have some sort of gimmick or persona, but Cena is basically a throwback to cartoony 1980's WWF.

Now I know Undertaker's whole career is based on a supernatural gimmick, but he has evolved into a more realistic character who doesn't rely on "supernatural" powers and isn't vulnerable to an urn. He also doesn't interact with the real world on Twitter and make public appearances. Rock is in the real world and even when he was going solely by the name of "The Rock", he was being something that he 100 percent came up with on his own. He was being original.

There wasn't a Rock before Dwayne, and there won't be another one in the future. The same can be said for Stone Cold. The premise that Cena is a phony revolves around the fact that Cena's persona is a blatant generic rip off of Hulk Hogan's red and yellow persona from the 80s. Maybe a better way of describing Cena would be to call him "unoriginal". In my opinion that does make him a phony, because he's had success off of the Hogan formula and not an original persona or character.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTt3xTrVzoc&feature=related

 

[GI Cake]

My belief that he got his physique with steroids is only one of the reasons I think he is a phony.

Source please? Everyone and their mother knows that their is no one that works harder in the gym than John Cena. Even fellow gym monkey, John Morrison praises Cena's work ethic. So this is obviously a statement with no real ground other than "Cena is just too muscular, must be doing roids." And honestly, would it matter if he did use steroids? It is a proven fact that people who use steroids are the same people that work harder and spend more time in the gym than the people who villainize their habbits.

I don't believe in that Hustle Loyalty and Respect crap as it is nothing more than a WWE marketing campaign. Cena is basically a generic made gimmick with the only real thing about him being his name. Now I know that all wrestlers have some sort of gimmick or persona, but Cena is basically a throwback to cartoony 1980's WWF.

You're right about this to a degree. The WWE profit off Cena's logo, Cena's gimmick is the superman of the WWE. But can you honestly tell me that Cena doesn't do a good job in playing his role? Cena gets the fans excited. Weather it be the kids wanting to see him win, or the adults wanting to see him lose, he gets a reaction out of the crowd. Only a few guys like CM Punk, Zack Ryder, and Cody Rhodes can have a gimmick, and actually play the crowd into believing them. Know why everyone loves Ryder? Because he does his best to play his role. You know why the fans hate Rhodes? Because he is out there handing bags to front row audience. Whatever it takes to get you over, and Cena has done everything and then some to get where he is today.

Now I know Undertaker's whole career is based on a supernatural gimmick, but he has evolved into a more realistic character who doesn't rely on "supernatural" powers and isn't vulnerable to an urn. He also doesn't interact with the real world on Twitter and make public appearances. Rock is in the real world and even when he was going solely by the name of "The Rock", he was being something that he 100 percent came up with on his own. He was being original.

The same guy that started his career as "Rocky Maliva" and came into the ring decorated in a grass skirt? The Rock was a pure breed WWE guy, their first third generation superstar. You can't honestly believe that the WWE were ever going to give up on him. Cena on his debut was like every other John Doe in the WWE roster. This short haired, tights, and boots wrestler that anyone could replace. But in time he groomed his character and became the doctor of Thugonomics. People loved his energy and how he played his role. And now he is the work horse and the guy of the WWE. The Rock was in the same place as well when he was wrestling.

There wasn't a Rock before Dwayne, and there won't be another one in the future. The same can be said for Stone Cold. The premise that Cena is a phony revolves around the fact that Cena's persona is a blatant generic rip off of Hulk Hogan's red and yellow persona from the 80s. Maybe a better way of describing Cena would be to call him "unoriginal". In my opinion that does make him a phony, because he's had success off of the Hogan formula and not an original persona or character.

You can cry all you want, call him unoriginal, call him a phony. But the guy is actually a very nice and down to earth person. You can ask all the kids who asked to meet him from the make a wish group. Cena takes time out of his busy week to go out, and spend personal one on one time with those kids. There was never a parent who complained that Cena wasn't nice or all business to their kid. And that speaks miles for Cena's behavior outside of the WWE.

 

[PunkNation26]

Source please? Everyone and their mother knows that their is no one that works harder in the gym than John Cena. Even fellow gym monkey, John Morrison praises Cena's work ethic. So this is obviously a statement with no real ground other than "Cena is just too muscular, must be doing roids." And honestly, would it matter if he did use steroids? It is a proven fact that people who use steroids are the same people that work harder and spend more time in the gym than the people who villainize their habbits.

I never claimed to have any proof that he did steroids. I said that I personally believe that he either still uses them or used them in the past. I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone could get his physique naturally. I do believe that it may be possible to keep the physique up without steroids.
Oh and John Morrison has no credibility as a witness for Cena. Morrison was busted for using steroids under WWE's wellness policy at least once.



You're right about this to a degree. The WWE profit off Cena's logo, Cena's gimmick is the superman of the WWE. But can you honestly tell me that Cena doesn't do a good job in playing his role? Cena gets the fans excited. Weather it be the kids wanting to see him win, or the adults wanting to see him lose, he gets a reaction out of the crowd. Only a few guys like CM Punk, Zack Ryder, and Cody Rhodes can have a gimmick, and actually play the crowd into believing them. Know why everyone loves Ryder? Because he does his best to play his role. You know why the fans hate Rhodes? Because he is out there handing bags to front row audience. Whatever it takes to get you over, and Cena has done everything and then some to get where he is today.

The adults wanting to see Cena lose was never the result of something Cena intentionally did. The fact that adults want to see Cena lose is because he is such a shitty technical in ring wrestler, perhaps the worst to be Champion since Hogan. People were used to talented guys like Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, and Kurt Angle being Champion, and a guy like Cena becoming Champion was out of left field. People also didn't want a cartoony, crappy wrestling ability having, superman in the main event.

People love Ryder becauses he's original and entertaining. I'd also say that the casual fans are the ones that hate Cody Rhodes. I personally find him to be entertaining. I also like to play into his imaginary facial injuries and play them up as if they exist if I'm debating a mark.

The same guy that started his career as "Rocky Maliva" and came into the ring decorated in a grass skirt? The Rock was a pure breed WWE guy, their first third generation superstar. You can't honestly believe that the WWE were ever going to give up on him. Cena on his debut was like every other John Doe in the WWE roster. This short haired, tights, and boots wrestler that anyone could replace. But in time he groomed his character and became the doctor of Thugonomics. People loved his energy and how he played his role. And now he is the work horse and the guy of the WWE. The Rock was in the same place as well when he was wrestling.

I never said WWE was going to give up on The Rock. When Rock first came to WWE, he was assigned a persona by Vince McMahon. When he started getting torn apart by the crowd, some time later he went to Vince backstage and told him he wanted to be "The Rock". The rest is history. The problem with Cena is that he never came up with an original persona. He just became Hulk Hogan 2.0 and started peddling generic bright colored merchandise.

You can cry all you want, call him unoriginal, call him a phony. But the guy is actually a very nice and down to earth person. You can ask all the kids who asked to meet him from the make a wish group. Cena takes time out of his busy week to go out, and spend personal one on one time with those kids. There was never a parent who complained that Cena wasn't nice or all business to their kid. And that speaks miles for Cena's behavior outside of the WWE.

I don't care if Cena is a nice guy or not, and I don't care how many kids he goes and spends time with. It's still the equivalent of him wearing a Santa Claus suit and going to visit sick kids as Santa during the holidays. Either way, he's portraying a non original persona.

 

[#hamler]

I never claimed to have any proof that he did steroids. I said that I personally believe that he either still uses them or used them in the past. I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone could get his physique naturally. I do believe that it may be possible to keep the physique up without steroids.

Highly doubtful the WWE would continue to push someone who does anything like that after what they were accused of by Sports Illustrated in 2007; especially their top star.

Oh and John Morrison has no credibility as a witness for Cena. Morrison was busted for using steroids under WWE's wellness policy at least once.

Cena doesn't do steroids. Cena's been huge as fuck his entire career. If he were little in 2003 and got huge as fuck by 2005, then I could believe it. Until I see some proof, I call horseshit.

The adults wanting to see Cena lose was never the result of something Cena intentionally did. The fact that adults want to see Cena lose is because he is such a shitty technical in ring wrestler

Shitty technical wrestler? Why because he doesn't flip and dive over the ropes? Because he doesn't throw kicks and execute the best suplex in the world? No. Cena is a great in ring worker and if you think he isn't then you need to learn what wrestling is all about.

perhaps the worst to be Champion since Hogan.

This absolutely kills ALL your credibility. Hogan, bad Champion? Bad wrestler? Hogan transformed wrestling into what it is today. He took an entire company and single handedly put it on the map. Bad wrestler; I think not.

People were used to talented guys like Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, and Kurt Angle being Champion, and a guy like Cena becoming Champion was out of left field. People also didn't want a cartoony, crappy wrestling ability having, superman in the main event.

I'm pretty sure Cena was the rapper dude you love so much when he first became Champion. Cena has star-power and huge credibility. You should be use to Cena being Champion by now. No one, not even Punk, has the star-power Cena possesses.

Inever said WWE was going to give up on The Rock. When Rock first came to WWE, he was assigned a persona by Vince McMahon. When he started getting torn apart by the crowd, some time later he went to Vince backstage and told him he wanted to be "The Rock". The rest is history. The problem with Cena is that he never came up with an original persona. He just became Hulk Hogan 2.0 and started peddling generic bright colored merchandise.

You ever seen Cena's 5 question's with the champ? Youtube them. He isn't in character, he's being himself but yet, it's similar to the way Cena is on screen. Vince gave Cena the rapping gimmick, the Cena you see is pure Cena. There's nothing phony about him. I've yet to hear or read anything about Cena having a bad attitude in the back or anything of that nature.

I don't care if Cena is a nice guy or not, and I don't care how many kids he goes and spends time with.

Well, you want to say Cena's fake, face facts, he isn't.

It's still the equivalent of him wearing a Santa Claus suit and going to visit sick kids as Santa during the holidays. Either way, he's portraying a non original persona.

Unless of course he cares about visiting kids and helping the sick ones bringing happiness to their shitty, little sad lives. Cena doesn't have to do what he does. Watch Cena's recent DVD, it shows him signing like 5000 or so baseball cards before Wrestlemania. It took him hours to complete. Cena is the most requested wrestler for the Make a Wish Foundation. Cena is in character from the time he goes to sleep until the time he wakes up. At one point or another, he's going to be caught fucking up. It's been roughly 8 years since he's been in the lime light, yet nothing negative from the Dirt Sheets and whatnot have been reported. Cena isn't the phony you keep making him out to be.

Sorry about the scrambled quote boxes, I don't know how to do multiple quotes on here.

Bold what you say in the message so it's easier to read.

 

[RD_21]

Was catching up to the thread and it's funny that the Cena complaints threads as become a bashing of Cena bashers and a way to defend Cena.

If you really want to make a thread to focus everything people shouldn't defend Cena in this thread it should just be a vent thread, in my opinion and for what it's worth.

You see because even if some of you want to rationalise everything with us, telling us that Cena is working hard, that the kids love him, that he is the most over, sell moves well, that he is the best merchandise sellers and every other LOGIC arguments you want to make it will NEVER changed ANYTHING.

Why you may ask? Because we are not talking about logic or thinking here but FEELINGS! My brains know all your fact, my brains know that I should love Cena and respect him (well I respect him) and all those things, but my hearth and my feelings are still sick of him on my tv with his corny smile and joke, I just want to punch my TV and I fast forward trhough his segments and/or flip channel if I am live.

So again tell me anything you want but you will never be able to change our minds and tell us that we are wrong, because feelings can never be wrong, they just are what they are.

 

[javierjiminy]

Why John Cena should turn heel: article explaining very interesting points

The wrestling community has been speculating (and hoping) for a John Cena heel turn for a while now.

There have been two occasions over the past year where it looked to be set up perfectly for it. The first one was when he was forced to join the Nexus last year and the other being his recent feud with CM Punk.

However, the WWE decided against turning the face of the company in to a heel on both occasions.

So, why is it important for John Cena to turn heel?

1) Will shock the wrestling world

Although many people want it to happen and even speculate it at times, no one really expects it to happen.

The WWE have kept well clear of turning Cena heel, probably due to the reaction of the younger generation of fans.

They have turned their star man in to a heel in the past when Stone Cold Steve Austin did so in 2001. It was a risky move but they went through with it. Doing the same with Cena will no doubt be risky move but I think it will be a risk that will pay off big time.

2) Better promos

For those of you that may not know, Cena was a heel when he first started out in the WWE.

During that time, he would insult fellow superstars and fans in the form of rap. They were on the edge type promos and that is what made him so popular because it was something different and edgy. The support he received from the WWE universe eventually turned him face.

That looks to have been a mistake as since turning face his promos have been the exact opposite, consisting of kid friendly jokes and have become predictable.

He did return to his old rapping gimmick for one night only before WrestleMania when talking about the Rock. That night, the older generation of fans that loudly chant “Cena sucks” ended up cheering him, simply because it’s the Cena they want to see.

3) Freshens up the character

Every character needs a fresh look and attitude every so often. Cena has been the same character for the past 7 years and it’s been stale for a while now.

The wrestling world are tired of seeing the same Cena character in the main event month after month.

Obviously, Cena is going to be in the main event picture on a regular basis and I don’t really have an issue with that. However, a new Cena character in the main event would make a nice change and would feel like a fresh guy in the main event, which brings me to my next two points.

4) Begins new rivalries

Having Cena become a heel means the potential to see fresh match ups with guys he hasn’t had major feuds with.

The likes of Kofi Kingston, John Morrison, Evan Bourne and Daniel Bryan would be great rivalries. They are all new rivalries we haven’t seen before, will help elevate the status of the competitors listed and will bring home Cena’s heel character with all of them being popular with the WWE universe.

5) Re-creates old rivalries with a new twist

Old feuds could resurface but with different scenarios and twists.

Three big feuds come to my mind straight away.

The first two are Rey Mysterio and The Undertaker. Cena hasn’t feuded with these guys since 2003 and he is a much bigger star now than he was back then. He has now proved himself and is at the top of the company. Seeing Cena vs Rey and Cena vs Taker would feel refreshing and new as they haven’t taken place in 8 years.

The other one is Cena vs Orton. I know it is a feud a lot of people are tired of seeing but let me explain.Every time they have feuded in the past Cena has been the super hero babyface while Orton the heel. Having the roles reversed is the only thing that could make the feud different and intriguing. And lets face it; they always steal the show when they face each other. So, a Cena/Orton rivalry isn’t a bad thing, as long as there is a new twist.

6) Would get unbelievable heat

The older generation hate him so much now; he already gets more heat than most of the heels. Add that with the reaction of the younger fans when their hero turns on them and you have the potential to receive the biggest heat towards any superstar in history.

The one flaw is if the older fans start cheering the new Cena character. The WWE would have to make sure to stick with it though and not change his character back to the old Cena, like they have done with Randy Orton.

7) Makes Cena vs Rock more compelling

Finally (pun intended), it makes the Cena/Rock WrestleMania match much more electrifying (again, pun intended).

The match is highly anticipated but with the Rock not appearing a lot on WWE television, its’s hard to keep the momentum building.

Cena turning heel will freshen up the angle and the feud can kick on. As I said earlier, Cena cutting his old school rap promo towards the Rock earlier this year wet everyone’s appetite for a Cena/Rock feud.

Plus, WrestleMania 28 takes place in Miami, Florida, the Rock’s home town. Cena will be getting a huge negative reaction as it is. Now, imagine the reaction Cena will get being a heel insulting Rock and Miami.

WrestleMania 28; heel Cena vs the Rock: the greatest match in WrestleMania history?

 

[The Champ]

And that articles makes some decent points. For me, though, I think that part of the appeal of a dream match is that the fans get to choose who they want to root for. It's a battle of generations and demographics rather than a simple battle of face vs. heel. Rock and Cena just being themselves and staying within the characters that they've become known for will create a more authentic atmosphere to me than trying to force a heel turn just because the crowd is going to be pro-Rock.

 

[1TheGreatOne1]

Why John Cena should turn heel: article explaining very interesting points

The wrestling community has been speculating (and hoping) for a John Cena heel turn for a while now.

There have been two occasions over the past year where it looked to be set up perfectly for it. The first one was when he was forced to join the Nexus last year and the other being his recent feud with CM Punk.

However, the WWE decided against turning the face of the company in to a heel on both occasions.

So, why is it important for John Cena to turn heel?

1) Will shock the wrestling world

Although many people want it to happen and even speculate it at times, no one really expects it to happen.

The WWE have kept well clear of turning Cena heel, probably due to the reaction of the younger generation of fans.

They have turned their star man in to a heel in the past when Stone Cold Steve Austin did so in 2001. It was a risky move but they went through with it. Doing the same with Cena will no doubt be risky move but I think it will be a risk that will pay off big time.

2) Better promos

For those of you that may not know, Cena was a heel when he first started out in the WWE.

During that time, he would insult fellow superstars and fans in the form of rap. They were on the edge type promos and that is what made him so popular because it was something different and edgy. The support he received from the WWE universe eventually turned him face.

That looks to have been a mistake as since turning face his promos have been the exact opposite, consisting of kid friendly jokes and have become predictable.

He did return to his old rapping gimmick for one night only before WrestleMania when talking about the Rock. That night, the older generation of fans that loudly chant “Cena sucks” ended up cheering him, simply because it’s the Cena they want to see.

3) Freshens up the character

Every character needs a fresh look and attitude every so often. Cena has been the same character for the past 7 years and it’s been stale for a while now.

The wrestling world are tired of seeing the same Cena character in the main event month after month.

Obviously, Cena is going to be in the main event picture on a regular basis and I don’t really have an issue with that. However, a new Cena character in the main event would make a nice change and would feel like a fresh guy in the main event, which brings me to my next two points.

4) Begins new rivalries

Having Cena become a heel means the potential to see fresh match ups with guys he hasn’t had major feuds with.

The likes of Kofi Kingston, John Morrison, Evan Bourne and Daniel Bryan would be great rivalries. They are all new rivalries we haven’t seen before, will help elevate the status of the competitors listed and will bring home Cena’s heel character with all of them being popular with the WWE universe.

5) Re-creates old rivalries with a new twist

Old feuds could resurface but with different scenarios and twists.

Three big feuds come to my mind straight away.

The first two are Rey Mysterio and The Undertaker. Cena hasn’t feuded with these guys since 2003 and he is a much bigger star now than he was back then. He has now proved himself and is at the top of the company. Seeing Cena vs Rey and Cena vs Taker would feel refreshing and new as they haven’t taken place in 8 years.

The other one is Cena vs Orton. I know it is a feud a lot of people are tired of seeing but let me explain.Every time they have feuded in the past Cena has been the super hero babyface while Orton the heel. Having the roles reversed is the only thing that could make the feud different and intriguing. And lets face it; they always steal the show when they face each other. So, a Cena/Orton rivalry isn’t a bad thing, as long as there is a new twist.

6) Would get unbelievable heat

The older generation hate him so much now; he already gets more heat than most of the heels. Add that with the reaction of the younger fans when their hero turns on them and you have the potential to receive the biggest heat towards any superstar in history.

The one flaw is if the older fans start cheering the new Cena character. The WWE would have to make sure to stick with it though and not change his character back to the old Cena, like they have done with Randy Orton.

7) Makes Cena vs Rock more compelling

Finally (pun intended), it makes the Cena/Rock WrestleMania match much more electrifying (again, pun intended).

The match is highly anticipated but with the Rock not appearing a lot on WWE television, its’s hard to keep the momentum building.

Cena turning heel will freshen up the angle and the feud can kick on. As I said earlier, Cena cutting his old school rap promo towards the Rock earlier this year wet everyone’s appetite for a Cena/Rock feud.

Plus, WrestleMania 28 takes place in Miami, Florida, the Rock’s home town. Cena will be getting a huge negative reaction as it is. Now, imagine the reaction Cena will get being a heel insulting Rock and Miami.

WrestleMania 28; heel Cena vs the Rock: the greatest match in WrestleMania history?

There's way more positive than negatives tbh.
It really would shake up the wrestling world.. as much as i want it, who is gonna be the new top star babyface? i bet Vince worries about those little jimmies ..who are they gonna cheer for?

 

[DirtyJosé]

The CeNation exists outside of the "WWE Universe" and branches out into the real universe. Yes I do know that wrestlers with Twitter accounts stay in character on their accounts, but there's no way Cena's "character" is not a phony. Just think back to when he was rapping telling people to choke on nuts, and calling Undertaker a motherfucker.

As evidenced later on, the only arguments you present as to why you find Cena as a "phony" while you accept Punk and others as "Genuine Characters" is either because Rock told you so in a promo or because you just won't accept it because you just don't want to. You fail repeatedly at mentioning any situation where Cena could be seen as phony or as hypocritical. Way to be such an over emotional child. I love shit posters like you.

The difference between Punk and Cena is that Punk is basically being himself with some exagerration possibly in the tone of his actions, and Cena's persona was drummed up by Vince McMahon and the WWE Machine marketing department to purposely market to kids as the 21st century Hogan. You know this is true. Cena wouldn't be doing this lame crap if he wasn't making a lot of money. Who honestly wants to be hated like he is?

How about someone who really doesn't care about haters? How about someone who is just fine doing what he does because he knows he has a legion of fans who love him for doing it his way, not what "others" think he should do. You talk about Cena being phony, but not only do you have no evidence of this other than just being a hateful fanboy, but you also wish he would do what you want him to just for the sake of making you happy. Don't you think that would really be phony of him? Idiot.

I'd say hardly anyone would want to be hated like he is. It's also sad that your biggest fans are also fans of the kid's band Big Time Rush.

Um, yeah, pulling more child quotes out of your ass? Ok. How's this: how sad is it the the biggest Cena haters on the board are getting owned by a gentleman who doesn't even really care for Cena that much? Go back to your emo-pop-punk drivel, little boy.

I totally agree. So yeah, he's loved by women and young children. And some dweeby guys. But the fact is he could be loved by everyone. John Cena has the ability to be the top face that's not booed by half the crowd. But he's just as lazy in that regard as he is in the ring. He's gotten used to this "Lets Go Cena, CENA SUCKS" chant and has embraced it, rather than try to rework what he's doing and gain the admiration of everyone by changing some things up. I read someone call him Hogan 2.0 and I was wondering why that hadn't caught on more but the reality is, Hogan during his run in the golden age and even into the late 90's was loved by EVERYBODY. If there were Hogan haters, they were few and far in between. Hogan's superman thing was more cheesy than Cena could ever WISH to be, but everybody loved it. Everyone waited for it and when it happened we marked the EFF out.

Gotta love the delicious irony all over shitty posts like this:

"CENA IS LAZY > HE SHOULD DO WHAT HOGAN DID INSTEAD OF HIS OWN THING"

"CENA IS A PHONY > HE SHOULD DO WHAT I WANT HIM TO SO HE'LL BE KEWL"

Cena's main problem isn't the 5 moves of doom, in ring ability, mic skills or stupid stuff like the jorts or the PG era. In fact those things, minus the mic skills were pretty much Hogan's thing too. Cena's main problem is that, he's transparently phony. We can see right through him. He doesn't love the business, he loves what he's gotten as a result of being in the right place at the right time and therefore loves his job.
Let me explain. Rock said in a response to Cena, that he came at Rock about not loving the business and played him about his acting, when in reality, he'd been trying to do the same thing for years. I am in no way saying that Cena doesn't enjoy wrestling. He's made millions doing it. I'd enjoy it too. But what else does he have?
Making movies doesn't work for him. He sucks as an actor.
Making music didn't work for him either, his album sold double aluminum. He couldn't hack it as a body builder so whats left?
Wrestling.

ohlookanotherargumentbasedonsomethingrockytoldthem.

First of all, Cena's movies and music have made more money than anyone's else side projects who are on the current roster, with the lone exception of possibly Miz's MTV stuff from years back. So yeah, is this really a point? Does that somehow disprove that he loves the stuff, or is it just more bullshit speculation? Yup, you guessed it, it's bullshit. Jericho loves wrestling too, but that doesn't stop him from loving other things as well.

Also, "You Can't See Me" has sold almost 1.5 million copies since release and debuted at #15 on the Billboard 200, which is far better than most people's music career EVER gets to, let alone a first release. Double Aluminum, lulz. You almost sound like you know what the fuck you're talking about, but you don't.

He's unbelievable in the ring and I don't mean that as a good thing. He's really UN-believable. The superman thing is ridiculous. His mic skills ARE corny as ever and as much as he claims to be "doing what he does for the fans that stick by him" what is he really offering them?
Nothing.
(Not talking at all about anything outside of the ring or a WWE arena, ie; charity work, etc.)

Um, he offers them a character that has been established and won't disappear into the sea of undercard muck. He gives them matches they can and enjoy. He gives them a hero to cheer who won't walk away from the company for more money or complaining about position on the card (ahem, Batista/Punk...how's that for loving your work?). He won't get fired for being stupid and reckless (Hardy). Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean others don't as well, a point you idiots just don't seem to understand.

Because the bulk of real wrestling fans hate him,

You got any proof of this, or is this just more bullshit as usual? Yup, thought so. I can see plenty of people around here who are real and don't hate him and are wrestling fans. I see plenty of people in real life who are real, don't hate him, and are wrestling fans. Get off your high horse and pull that ivory tower out of your ass.

he feels like he doesn't have to cater to us because his "real fans still care about him" therefore he stays stale and stays complacent as a personality. And because youth love what they are used to, and women want to see him, AND because of the fact that WWE has an incredible inability to believe in anyone else, we are force fed a corny, lazy, phony 12 time champion. (in 6 years no less).

blah blah blah blah blah, again, "intelligent poster" my ass. I'd expect you to actually have a voice and not keep repeating the same boring and provably wrong argument bitter fans have been spouting for years. I'll ask you the same thing I asked the other dip shit here: what really makes younger fans and/or female fans any less credible than you? Besides being inaccurate, I keep hearing this point being made as if somehow it's a bad thing or that they don't count? Do you have a valid argument or point to make, or are you just another mouth breathing ignorant ass ageist and sexist fuck head like the rest?

I don't hate Cena because he's a bad wrestler, or because he's corny. I don't like him because he settled. He had a great era and then force fed us a gimmick that to be honest, i believe he don't even believe in. Again, he's a phony. Who wants to be booed when they're supposed to be the good guy? Who wants to walk into an arena with his Hustle Loyalty Respect armbands and his power to the people salute, "I am one of you" jean shorts and get booed out of the arena? Nobody. Anyone telling you different is lying to you. If Hogan was getting the response John Cena is getting, he and Vince would have HAD to do something different. But a WWE check ain't gon bounce so he's gonna keep doing what he's doing.

Oh, there's that "phony" word again. You see, the best part is that the sheep who duck and hide their appreciation for something just because a bunch of assholes who are bitter and have to take out their aggression on someone else who is enjoying something else are/would be the real "phony". "Phony" is not enjoying what you enjoy without concern what the haters are gonna say or do. You do strike me as the kind of douche who would go out of their way to shit on someone just because they like Cena and you don't. Grow the fuck, boy, you're taking this too seriously.

We'll get a different John Cena, when the kids and the ladies start booing as much as the guys do. Because then VKM and PLM will have to realize that somethings gotta give. Thats when he'll change. Because he'll HAVE to. But until that happens, he's gonna keep giving you what he's been giving you. He's had a couple good promo's this year, and about a handful of good matches. Everything else has been mediocre at best. And this is what people defend?
hey....I guess it is what it is...

Don't mistake my posting as defending Cena when really it's just taking stupid assholes like you and calling you out on your dumb shit. You'll say anything to try and rationalize your opinion and your obvious butthurt bitterness. If you don't like it, just say so. No need to bend over backwards and make up stupid shit to try and expose Cena as a phony when this clearly isn't the case.

I want to actually agree with this tweet from Cena but I can't. The reason is because it isn't true as much as I want it to be. If it was true, WWE security wouldn't confiscate anti-Cena signs and Vince wouldn't push certain guys a certain way. For example, WWE has went out of it's way to portray Christian as a cowardly bitch heel.

They made the guy sell out his own fans along with the typical marks. If what Cena said about guys just being who they are was true, then Christian could've said thank you to his supporters and told the rest to fuck off, instead of telling the entire fanbase to fuck off.

Maybe, just maybe, Christian wants to play that card, did you think of that? Maybe, just maybe, he loves the business and loves getting into the roles given to him that he doesn't care about things like that, and that he'd rather be the hated guy for maximum effect? Jericho did the same thing ALL THE FUCKING TIME, and has written about it at length in his two books, and explains the rationale behind it.

As for the signs, many more signs than just "Anti-Cena" signs get confiscated, so stop trying to make that seem like some sort of C-O-N-Spiracy. If that were truly the case, we wouldn't see half of the "Anti-Cena" signs that one can easily see on most any show. Cena makes a good point here, and you just let it go over your head because your inner child is still all nervous and paranoid about Cena being a fraud. Are you still butt hurt from when Rock left or something? Again, you take this WAY too seriously. Seek help.

Now I know, that Christian's fans are smart enough to not let that keep them from supporting them. I'm just saying that what Cena said isn't accurate as much as I wish it was. It would be awesome if heels could win clean and faces could lose clean. It would add a ton of depth to the wrestlers character depth.

I see plenty of heels win clean and I see plenty of faces lose clean. I've never gotten why people make such a huge deal out of this either. How does that really add any depth?

Kurt Angle is the best example of how I think a heel should be allowed to work. The way he works in TNA as a defined heel in his matches is great. He doesn't go all cowardly and all of a sudden forget how to wrestle and cheat out of desperation. A perfect example of the way the clear cut face and heel divide still exists is the Matt Hardy MVP feud a few years back.

If every heel was booked like Angle, would that be effective? Answer: NO. Variety is the spice of life. If you want matches with clean finishes and no personality, go watch MMA.

When Hardy was face, MVP couldn't hope to even have a competitive match against him. A while later when Hardy turned heel, he couldn't hope to beat MVP. So I guess I'll say Cena is wrong.

Never mind that during that break between angles, Hardy's backstage stock dropped faster than your mother's panties in a bar bathroom. Never mind that at the end there, Hardy was around only for putting over talent greater than himself. I mean, why use logic when you can just talk yourself into a giant Anti-Cena fervor?

I keep bringing Hogan up for a reason. Think about it, he was the Cena of the 80's, telling kids to take their vitamins and say their prayers and one day they could be big and strong like him. However, unbeknownst to those little kiddies, Hogan was sticking a needle in his ass every week in order to "Hulk Up". So you see, I'll probably be provin' right some years from now when Cena gets exposed. I'll also say that I personally believe that Cena got his physique with steroids.

Again, more evidence that your hatred of Cena is not based in anything he's actually said or done (or anything he's not said or done), but instead in some childhood based sense of paranoia of being mislead and lied to. Are you sad because your idols all became too human in your eyes? Was it so real to you that you couldn't take the big kayfabe revelation that comes to all younger fans during that time? Were you so let down in the past that you can't possibly let another one in? Jesus, the more you talk about Cena the more you sound like a loser crying over an ex who betrayed you years ago.

I am not talking about Rock drawing in the fans in 2010. I am talking about 1998-2001 in general and stating that it more or less proves that Rock's style was on the whole better than that of Cena. You can argue that Austin and Foley and Triple H played a huge part too but it is not as if The Rock was some sideshow who coul have easily been ignored.

I'd expect better from you, Snake. You know as well as I do that wrestling drew in different numbers back then for different reasons, the least of which being Austin, Foley, and HHH. But, if that's how you want to play ball, where were these fans after 2001? Where were they after Austin and Foley had stepped away from the full time roles they had been doing? This isn't even a knock at him, at least not entirely; where were these numbers for HHH upon his return? The answer is that those numbers were from casual fans, ones who had been turned on by the hot streak of popularity wrestling had for a moment. Once that waved broke, those fans left, and those numbers dropped. It wasn't The Rock, it was something much bigger than just him.

And yes, on paper Rock's promos are boring. Why? Because they consist of the same old catchphrases and jokes but when they are played out, the whole crowd is interested in it. A clear indication of the fact that his evergreen style camouflages his lack of substance. Is it the same for Cena?

The "style" argument only works for you personally. Again, "style" is a subjective thing. It proves nothing beyond yourself. So there is no "clear indication" of anything in your defense. I find his style weaker and weaker over time and his substance has always been sub-par. This goes back even to those golden days. Cena's style doesn't always resonate with me, but I find his work to have more meat and "substance" to them than the average Rock promo.

You can see nothing actually. I am not talking about him going up against Mr McMahon. That is perfectly understandable. I am talking about him dishing out unrequired amount of punishment to guys like Barrett and Batista when he already had the match won. I am talking about him making fat jokes at the expense of Vickie Guerrero. I am talking about him stealing Alberto Del Rio's car. That is not what a role model for the kids does.

Oh jeez. You people take this shit to the extreme just to make some weak points. Does it really matter that Cena does some things kids probably should try at home? We're talking about a "sport" where resolving differences with violence is encouraged, I think we passed the point of being subtle a LONG LONG time ago. Seriously, I thought you could do better.

Like I said earlier, I idealized Rock's jokes because of the way he said it not what he said. Most of the time I cared that he owned his opponent. I could care less about how he did it. JBL was probably 3 years ago and so what? Isn't it during the time Cena was in his present character. There are more examples if you need them.

Yes, please. If you're going to crucify a guy for "making the same jokes", at least back your words up with proof.

OK, what were those lines again on the go-home show to MITB. Something about him wanting to poop on Vince and stamp on him. He makes poop jokes against almost every opponent he feuds against. Because initially he is in his fun, relaxed mode of his and it is not until the heel actually does something against him that he goes into the "serious Cena" mode.

One.

There are plenty of examples. I can remember him telling that Miz will never say "I'm The Miz and I have testicles." It happens more than you think.

A joke about balls is not a joke about poop, and in fact was something Rock did all the time, so no, this isn't the same. I'm guessing it doesn't happen as often as you think, sir.

It's said to be one of Rock's best promos. So what if they contained catchphrases? They did not contain poopy humor as far as I can recall. Telling someone that he sucks isn't an example of poopy humor. Also it is much better than saying that "Alex Riley eats toilet paper". A line earlier Cena was talking about something completly different.

It's weak sauce. Furthermore, you miss the point. When Rock delivers a promo like that, all catchphrases and nothing more, you wet yourself. When Cena does it, it's a crime. You can't expect to have it both ways if you're trying to prove this as anything else other than personal preference.

Style is not as subjective as you might think. We have both established that Rock's content was not the best. In fact it is a stellar arguement that it wasn't and can be used as fact. It is not opinion based.

Yet what is it that made The Rock work and work so well? It has to be style doesn't it?

See the opening part of your post and my response to that.

Also let us come to Cena. When he jokes, he uses the same material as Rock used. His jokes are not as well recieved as Rock's were. So when they have almost the same substance, what must be the differentiating factor. Has to be style.

Cena does not really cut promos like Rock. He tried different jokes and insults when he goes that route, and does the serious schtick more often than Rock ever does. He doesn't use the same 4 lines over and over (just maybe the same 5 moves, LOL, KIDDING, COULDN'T RESIST!). Do you have anything else to offer beyond this weak style debate?

That is something that Cena's fans should learn more than me. Countless times I have seen this criticism of Cena being answered by "Oh Rock used the same kind of humor." They need to leave The Rock alone more than us. Try justifying Cena's use of poopy, unfunny jokes without bringing The Rock into the equation.

Well, I kinda have. Until you come up with more, "poopy" jokes don't seem to happen as often as you claim they do. "Unfunny" is subjective, and again, is rather useless in a debate most of the time.

And yes, it is a genuine criticism of Cena. It is something that goes against his character. Look at the reaction for his jokes. They are rather subdued as compared to the reactions that he gets in his other non funny promos. That tells me that the crowd is not as much into his jokes as the rest of his stuff.

Or that not everyone laughs like a donkey on helium.

You know why men boo you around the world, John? You know why men don't like you, don't respect you? You know why? You're down in Australia, you're angry at the crowd because they're quiet during your match. You know why you go to your own hometown in Boston and they boo you? You know why? The Rock will tell you why—because The Rock is a man. The Rock represents a majority of men around the world and we don't like you, we don't respect you. Why? Because we, us, men, see through bullshit, and we smell a phony punk a mile away. —The Rock, WWE Raw, 07/11/11

This sums up my feelings perfectly.

Sheep.

My belief that he got his physique with steroids is only one of the reasons I think he is a phony. I don't believe in that Hustle Loyalty and Respect crap as it is nothing more than a WWE marketing campaign. Cena is basically a generic made gimmick with the only real thing about him being his name. Now I know that all wrestlers have some sort of gimmick or persona, but Cena is basically a throwback to cartoony 1980's WWF.

Now I know Undertaker's whole career is based on a supernatural gimmick, but he has evolved into a more realistic character who doesn't rely on "supernatural" powers and isn't vulnerable to an urn.

Except only as recently as his feud with Kane....

He also doesn't interact with the real world on Twitter and make public appearances. Rock is in the real world and even when he was going solely by the name of "The Rock", he was being something that he 100 percent came up with on his own. He was being original.

100 percent his...and the WWF writers of the late 90's....lulz, you really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

There wasn't a Rock before Dwayne, and there won't be another one in the future. The same can be said for Stone Cold. The premise that Cena is a phony revolves around the fact that Cena's persona is a blatant generic rip off of Hulk Hogan's red and yellow persona from the 80s. Maybe a better way of describing Cena would be to call him "unoriginal". In my opinion that does make him a phony, because he's had success off of the Hogan formula and not an original persona or character.

Are you ever going to get around to making a valid point at all? ALL OF WRESTLING FOLLOWS FORMULAS! Since way back when. Crucifying one man for it and not the rest is truly hypocritical of you. Punk is ripping off bits of Jericho left and right, yet you don't think he's phony at all. Jesus, you have jacked yourself off blind.

 

[DirtyJosé]

Was catching up to the thread and it's funny that the Cena complaints threads as become a bashing of Cena bashers and a way to defend Cena.

If you really want to make a thread to focus everything people shouldn't defend Cena in this thread it should just be a vent thread, in my opinion and for what it's worth.

My bad if some people just can't say "hey, I don't like the guy" and spout hyperbolic bullshit at every corner trying to prove Cena as something that he's not.

You see because even if some of you want to rationalise everything with us, telling us that Cena is working hard, that the kids love him, that he is the most over, sell moves well, that he is the best merchandise sellers and every other LOGIC arguments you want to make it will NEVER changed ANYTHING.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Why you may ask? Because we are not talking about logic or thinking here but FEELINGS! My brains know all your fact, my brains know that I should love Cena and respect him (well I respect him) and all those things, but my hearth and my feelings are still sick of him on my tv with his corny smile and joke, I just want to punch my TV and I fast forward trhough his segments and/or flip channel if I am live.

So again tell me anything you want but you will never be able to change our minds and tell us that we are wrong, because feelings can never be wrong, they just are what they are.

I agree. I don't think people are stupid for not liking Cena; in fact, I can even see why and sympathize to a degree. I just don't like seeing people spout off shit like they do and pretend like it's fact. Feelings are one thing, lies and/or misinformation is another.

 

[RD_21]

Stupid is as stupid does.

Sorry, French Canadian here so I don't really get that sentence, was it a shot at me?

I agree. I don't think people are stupid for not liking Cena; in fact, I can even see why and sympathize to a degree. I just don't like seeing people spout off shit like they do and pretend like it's fact. Feelings are one thing, lies and/or misinformation is another.

It depends on what people will say I am wrong when I call Cena lazy to a certain extent (I know he is working hard taking beatings, bumps and selling well) or maybe I should say he is too comfortable in his acts and routines that he doesn't feel the need to change and create new things. And don't get me wrong I know that it's not only Cena because Vince believe in faces having an established routine and working smart and safe because it's better for the business and I am also aware that it's still working for his fans, but for me it's getting REALLY old.

Iam one of the 1.5 millions who bought his CD and I had no problem with him until a year or two ago but now I have this feeling and I just can't change it and like every or almost every person who are tired of Cena I would much rater be able to enjoy his work and product instead of skipping it if I had the choice, but I can't at least for now.

 

[[cL]]

Gotta love the delicious irony all over shitty posts like this:

"CENA IS LAZY > HE SHOULD DO WHAT HOGAN DID INSTEAD OF HIS OWN THING"

"CENA IS A PHONY > HE SHOULD DO WHAT I WANT HIM TO SO HE'LL BE KEWL"

not at all what i said, not at all what I was trying to convey.
Stupid post, from a stupid child.

ohlookanotherargumentbasedonsomethingrockytoldthem.

you should separate your words. If you're gonna be a douche, at least be legible.

First of all, Cena's movies and music have made more money than anyone's else side projects who are on the current roster, with the lone exception of possibly Miz's MTV stuff from years back. So yeah, is this really a point? Does that somehow disprove that he loves the stuff, or is it just more bullshit speculation?

Cena's movies and music have made more money than anyone else's side projects on the current roster.
The CURRENT roster. full of movie stars, recording artists, mega moguls and multi millionaires with side businesses because they have time outside of trying to get over to do that right?
Next...

Also, "You Can't See Me" has sold almost 1.5 million copies since release and debuted at #15 on the Billboard 200, which is far better than most people's music career EVER gets to, let alone a first release. Double Aluminum, lulz. You almost sound like you know what the fuck you're talking about, but you don't.

(standing up applauding)
I love your wording......"Also, "You Can't See Me" has......sold ALMOST 1.5 million copies...
That album was released in 2005. And has sold EXACTLY 1,346,000 as of OCTOBER 8, 2010. Your beloved Cena's album took 5 years to get to that level of sales. So..yeah, double aluminum may not be accurate but taking 5 years to go platinum ain't exactly success in the music business. Next.

Um, he offers them a character that has been established and won't disappear into the sea of undercard muck.

Unfortunately

He gives them matches they can and enjoy. [I object] He gives them a hero to cheer who won't walk away from the company for more money or complaining about position on the card (ahem, Batista/Punk...how's that for loving your work?).

What reason would he have to walk away? What possible complaint could he have? He's the FACE OF THE COMPANY. He makes more money than anyone on the roster.
Point irrelevant. Next.

Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean others don't as well, a point you idiots just don't seem to understand.

irrelevant.

I see plenty of people in real life who are real

as opposed to?

Get off your high horse and pull that ivory tower out of your ass.

irrelevant

blah blah blah blah blah, again, "intelligent poster" my ass. I'd expect you to actually have a voice and not keep repeating the same boring and provably wrong argument

You've proven nothing other than the fact that you're a mountain of emptiness. All you have is useless drivel and insults. Personally I've not liked Cena since the PG thing started and they changed his finisher from the FU to the Attitude Adjustment.(not why i stopped liking him, but that era is when he became corny to me and over the years I have increasingly grown to dislike him because the WWE keeps shoving him down our throats. He's gotten comfortable with being complacent and thats why I don't like him. He's not grown as a wrestler, he has actually diminished as a mic worker, (it takes EXTREME circumstances for him to be at least decent on the mic) and he's over all boring to me. TO ME. My opinion. And to me, that makes him unreal. That makes him a phony to me. Because he, in MY OPINION, not the Rock's or anyone else's, doesn't seem to me to love the business. He loves what he's getting out of the business and therefore loves his JOB.

what really makes younger fans and/or female fans any less credible than you?

I never said they were less credible than me. But the younger crowd can't remember when wrestling meant something. They don't know (unless someone told them and are sitting at home with them with old wrestling videos showing them how good it once was). I'm not more credible than anyone but I sure know more about wrestling than a 10 year old.
I can't speak for womankind so I won't be a male who says women don't know wrestling cause thats not true at all.

Besides being inaccurate, I keep hearing this point being made as if somehow it's a bad thing or that they don't count?

sigh...yes edgar you and all of your classmates count.

Oh, there's that "phony" word again. You see, the best part is that the sheep who duck and hide their appreciation for something just because a bunch of assholes who are bitter and have to take out their aggression on someone else who is enjoying something else are/would be the real "phony". "Phony" is not enjoying what you enjoy without concern what the haters are gonna say or do.

Its not a sheep situation. It was certainly ANOTHER reason to not like Cena, but i'm not following anyone. My argument was that he's lazy because he won't evolve as an artist. Cena can be a loved wrestler by everyone but he won't put in the effort to do so because he's cool with things the way they are. Him being phony just added TO my argument.

You do strike me as the kind of douche who would go out of their way to shit on someone just because they like Cena and you don't. Grow the fuck, boy, you're taking this too seriously.

this IS the "John Cena Complaints" thread right?
Right.
You're looking for the "I love John Cena's YumRocket" thread.
Won't have to worry about finding me over there.
("YumRocket" used courtesy of Team Bring It Ent.)

Don't mistake my posting as defending Cena

of course not. I'm not getting that notion at all. (wink and the gun)

...when really it's just taking stupid assholes like you and calling you out on your dumb shit.

irrelevant

You'll say anything to try and rationalize your opinion and your obvious butthurt bitterness.

it would SEEM that you're more butthurt than anyone on this thread.
Calm down.

If you don't like it, just say so.

what the hell do you think my whole post is about? Crap. This is a JOHN CENA COMPLAINT.........forget it.

No need to bend over backwards and make up stupid shit to try and expose Cena as a phony when this clearly isn't the case.

Prove it.
Prove his persona is real. Prove that his in ring ability is above par when someone isn't carrying him the whole match. Prove that his mic skills aren't questionable. Prove that he's not corny. Prove that he's not a corporate puppet just there to make the money because he HATES that he can't change.
PROVE THAT HE'S NOT THE PHONY WE THINK HE IS.

I don't know the man personally. So my OPINION toward him is speculation based on how I feel and what I've seen so I can't in reality prove that he IS a phony.

But then again,
YOU can't prove that he's not.

So back the hell up off me.

the end.com

 

[PunkNation26]

I never claimed that everything I posted here was fact. I also never said Hogan was bad for business as Champion. I said he was the shittiest technical wrestler to ever be Champion which is fact. Now I'm talking WWE Champion, as Great Khali is probably the worst overall World Champion in wrestling history, and yes I'm saying worse than David Arquette even though he doesn't really count. (Ready to Rumble = greatest movie ever made)

I also know that Dwayne came up with the Rock persona because I watched some wrestling documentary where it talked about it, I just can't remember which one it was. He went to Vince backstage and asked for a character change and asked Vince to just give him a chance. You know how that all turned out. AWESOMENESS. Yes I am a Rock mark, and I'm damn proud of it.

I also know that he is full of shit sometimes, and I also know that he atleast partially lied about his "never leaving again" stance, but he doesn't need to be on the road every week anymore. WWE should be pushing new guys who have control over their character instead of forcing them to use made up names and generic, boring gimmicks. The fear the guys are going to become famous and leave for TNA is FUCKING STUPID. As long as you treat guys with respect and don't try to bury them out of spite, especially if they are making money for you, you have no fear of them leaving WWE.

WWE gives them more exposure and money than TNA could ever dream of giving them. So Vince needs to give up his paranoid bullshit way of thinking. Also, the only thing off the top of my head that I can think of that Punk may have took from Jericho is the knee high wrestling boots.

Jericho certainly can't say that Punk went all Space Jam and took Jericho's mic skills and wrestling ability from him after Jericho touched a basketball or something. Punk is simply great, and I also think that the whole Jericho bitching about Punk stealing from him is a work.

However, when it comes to Cena ripping off Hogan, it is fact. Hogan worked THE SAME MATCH FOR 10 YEARS. It was a formula with no variation. In recent years, Cena has strayed away from it somewhat, but he still does the pointless moves of doom. Those moves are not why I hate him, but the moves are only useful if they're done in the full out Hulk Out mode where they all lead to an instant finish of the match. Otherwise the moves just look stupid and he should stop doing the 5 knuckle shuffle all together.

Back on point, Hogan was the only guy to work the "Hogan formula", where all of his matches ended the same way. Cena comes along in 05 and starts doing the same thing. He defeated JBL literally with just the 5 moves of doom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTt3xTrVzoc

 

[DirtyJosé]

Sorry, French Canadian here so I don't really get that sentence, was it a shot at me?

Yeah, but I guess you haven't seen Forrest Gump, so the joke's on me somehow. Moving on...

It depends on what people will say I am wrong when I call Cena lazy to a certain extent (I know he is working hard taking beatings, bumps and selling well) or maybe I should say he is too comfortable in his acts and routines that he doesn't feel the need to change and create new things.

Rocky and Austin never really felt the need to create new things, except maybe Rocky going "lalalalalalalalalala" now every time he says "if you smell...". Why should Cena? Where is this double standard coming from?

And don't get me wrong I know that it's not only Cena because Vince believe in faces having an established routine and working smart and safe because it's better for the business and I am also aware that it's still working for his fans, but for me it's getting REALLY old.

And that's understandable. Really, I can't knock you for thinking that. I like you, or at least this post (compared to others) reflects well on you. Have opinions; having opinions is a good thing. Have ideas; those are good too. Just don't project those ideas as if they are fact, or as if you know more about this industry than you (or I) do.

Iam one of the 1.5 millions who bought his CD and I had no problem with him until a year or two ago but now I have this feeling and I just can't change it and like every or almost every person who are tired of Cena I would much rater be able to enjoy his work and product instead of skipping it if I had the choice, but I can't at least for now.

I get this too. I were a Cena fan from the get go, I'd be a little played out on it too. Nothing I say can really take away from that. And what's the answer here? Do we change Cena for sake of the few? Is that worth the risk? I think it's clear WWE knows this, and thus have started building up other top faces to fill the niches that Cena can't or shouldn't. Cena not your thing? Here's Orton. Don't like that? Here's Punk. Yes, it doesn't take away from the fact that Cena is, for the foreseeable future, the number one guy and is all up on everything, but I suppose your enjoyment (and mine) is based on whether or not we put all that much stock into the belts and whether we're content just to tune in for the guys that we do like and skip the rest.

not at all what i said, not at all what I was trying to convey.
Stupid post, from a stupid child.

Missed me baby? Ok, let's break this down:

You called him lazy for not wooing the parts of the crowd that booed him. You then went on to compare him to Hogan, and pointed out how EVERYBODY loved Hogan (which wasn't true, but whatevs) as an example of what Cena should be doing. So yeah, you said he should be more like Hogan was.

The latter parts of your posts detail how you don't entirely hate Cena, merely what he does, and you build at the idea that if Cena stopped doing those things you found "corny", you'd enjoy him or at least loathe him less than you do now. Ergo, you feel that him changing to what you think is more enjoyable is better than him doing what he's doing now, the irony of which is that doing so would make him more "phony" than his current gimmick could ever be.

So, would you like a do-over, or can we move on? Ok then.

you should separate your words. If you're gonna be a douche, at least be legible.

First of all, calling someone a "douche" is rather pointless. "Douche bag", please. I mean, I've been in my fair share of vaginas, but I don't think that was the implication you were going for. It's ok, I don't mind helping you out.

Secondly, clearly the point of that line and the intended tone flew far over your head. I don't blame you, I blame me. Really, I should be trying to tone it down and keep it as easy and simple for you as possible.

Thirdly, really, if you can't read words with spaces you might need help.

Finally, the point still stands. For once I'd like to see people like you rely on more than just Rocky promos to do your talking. I mean, look who you're talking about. Rocky only went to wrestling because he washed up as a football player.

Cena's movies and music have made more money than anyone else's side projects on the current roster.
The CURRENT roster. full of movie stars, recording artists, mega moguls and multi millionaires with side businesses because they have time outside of trying to get over to do that right?
Next...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, hold on a second there baby. That wasn't the point you were making. Your point was that because Cena has tried acting and music as an off-shoot from his wrestling career, he must not love the business. However, he's hardly the first in the industry to try such endeavors. I fail to see how this is an indictment of his dedication to the industry. If anything, I see him trying other things while staying with the career he loves, not taking off for Hollywood after a few years of not getting the pops and pushes he feels he deserves *ahem ROCKY ahem*. And even with that, he efforts have been rather successful. Not ground breaking. Not AMAZING. But fruitful.

(standing up applauding)
I love your wording......"Also, "You Can't See Me" has......sold ALMOST 1.5 million copies...
That album was released in 2005. And has sold EXACTLY 1,346,000 as of OCTOBER 8, 2010. Your beloved Cena's album took 5 years to get to that level of sales. So..yeah, double aluminum may not be accurate but taking 5 years to go platinum ain't exactly success in the music business. Next.

You sure are eager to move on through and past points where you've been shown up. How many folk do you know who's debut album has done so well? How many cross over wrestling types have been as successful? Speaking as someone with a healthy amount of experience in said industry (professional music), 1.3 million is a healthy number for any release such as his, no matter the years taken. Top 25 debut on the Billboard 200 isn't bad either. My beloved album? Nice, but it's not really my style. I do appreciate the line about fucking like a fiend with three dicks, though.

But really, are you here to talk about music and movies? Nah, we have other things to debate.

Unfortunately

For you perhaps, but weren't we talking about the things he does give to the people who like him? Jeez, it's always about you isn't it? You're so selfish. I guess I'm not surprised that you only see things from your narrow perspective and never from someone else's. Try developing some empathy, bitch.

What reason would he have to walk away? What possible complaint could he have? He's the FACE OF THE COMPANY. He makes more money than anyone on the roster.
Point irrelevant. Next.

Again with the rushing. Settle down Mr. I'minahurrytomovealong. You made the comparison to Hogan first, so let's bust it out here. Hogan is the type to holdout for better money and to bitch and moan and threaten to walk if he doesn't get his way. Punk just did the same thing until he finally got the things he was asking for, and he even played it off as doing it for love of the company. You don't think Cena could bilk them for another check? You don't think Cena could hold out until some demands of his were met? I mean, certainly he could pull the Hogan and start wanting to work less dates for more money and enjoy his time off letting his skank daughter do skank things and let his son cripple people. But he doesn't. If anything is irrelevant (stop copying Hamler, btw) it's your comment about how he could ever want more; if he were really as single minded about money and all that shit as you make him seem, enough would never be enough.

irrelevant.

Not at all. You made the presumptuous statement that he offers nothing to his fans, while I have laid out some very valid and real things he offers them; entertainment. And, as this thread has demonstrated, not everyone is going to like it. And that's cool. But pretending that he offers nothing to anyone just because you don't happen to find anything of worth in it is ignorant and stupid. I don't see how answering your questions and responding to your bold statements is irrelevant simply because you don't like the answers and responses you are getting.

as opposed to?

People on the internet, silly.

irrelevant

I disagree. You might not be such a twat if you didn't have large objects stuck up your ass all the time. I think it might be giving you a grumpy streak.

You've proven nothing other than the fact that you're a mountain of emptiness. All you have is useless drivel and insults.

Not really. I've brought valid counters to most everything you've said. Not my fault you just don't want to hear it.

Personally I've not liked Cena since the PG thing started and they changed his finisher from the FU to the Attitude Adjustment.(not why i stopped liking him, but that era is when he became corny to me and over the years I have increasingly grown to dislike him because the WWE keeps shoving him down our throats. He's gotten comfortable with being complacent and thats why I don't like him.

How has he been complacent? He worked hard to get where he's at. He works hard to keep it. Him not changing to suite your tastes isn't being lazy or complacent. This is how it works. Again, I never saw Rocky or Austin or HHH change much once they hit the top. They found a gimmick that became golden for them and rode it out into the sunset. This is the kind of shit I'm talking about; you don't like it and instead of just saying so you try to justify it with bullshit like this. It's not him, baby. It's you. Also, I think you meant to close your parenthesis around here somewhere, but I figure you were so hot headed with being embarrassed again that you forgot. It's ok.

He's not grown as a wrestler, he has actually diminished as a mic worker, (it takes EXTREME circumstances for him to be at least decent on the mic) and he's over all boring to me. TO ME. My opinion. And to me, that makes him unreal. That makes him a phony to me.

I can disagree, but I can't really take away from your opinion. I'm not silly enough to think I can change them. So this is fine. Or it would be, had you not finished that thought with this...

Because he, in MY OPINION, not the Rock's or anyone else's, doesn't seem to me to love the business. He loves what he's getting out of the business and therefore loves his JOB.

Oh fucking Jesus. You really are a sad, angry little boy. You really begrudge him that much, don't you? Really? All over changing the F.U. to Attitude Adjustment? Doesn't it sink in to you at all that were he really like that he would take more time off and actually enjoy the money he's made instead of spending almost every day on the road and doing show after show after show, usually doing at least two matches a night? You're logic is so flawed here that I'm forced again to return to that old Slyfox belief that, in this case, your opinion is wrong.

I never said they were less credible than me. But the younger crowd can't remember when wrestling meant something.

Bwahhahaha! Really? I mean, again, here's some bullshit. Clearly if it means anything to them now it doesn't matter because it wasn't the OLD SHIT. You are so full of shit, it's unreal.

They don't know (unless someone told them and are sitting at home with them with old wrestling videos showing them how good it once was). I'm not more credible than anyone but I sure know more about wrestling than a 10 year old.

No, you just know more of wrestling history, which thankfully isn't really needed to appreciate wrestling at all. We all started in at some point from ground zero. You may think that the past, as you know it, is the most important, but I argue that all that matters is the present and the enjoyment of it. Why watch a show when the only parts you liked were the long gone ones? This is why I can't and don't watch The Simpsons anymore.

I can't speak for womankind so I won't be a male who says women don't know wrestling cause thats not true at all.

But the implication that only women like Cena (which is false) carries with it the implication that because of that Cena's fanbase is not credible as legit wrestling fans. So, again, explain this one. Or better yet, stop with the nutsy machismo bullshit. Maybe you should actually get to know a woman. Might do wonders for you.

Its not a sheep situation. It was certainly ANOTHER reason to not like Cena, but i'm not following anyone. My argument was that he's lazy because he won't evolve as an artist. Cena can be a loved wrestler by everyone but he won't put in the effort to do so because he's cool with things the way they are. Him being phony just added TO my argument.

Has it ever occurred to you at all that no wrestler has really been loved by everyone? I mean, I never really cared for Hogan as a child (I was always more into Macho Man). I do recall splits between friends over Rock and Austin. Hart or Michaels. So he may go and make some new believers by changing things up, but he'd also risk losing the ones he has. Why? He's got a good thing going for him and the business. Why fuck that up just to please you? That's not him being lazy, it's you being selfish.

this IS the "John Cena Complaints" thread right?
Right.
You're looking for the "I love John Cena's YumRocket" thread.
Won't have to worry about finding me over there.
("YumRocket" used courtesy of Team Bring It Ent.)

No, dipshit, I meant to people in life. Kinda like how you were talking shit about "real men" and "real wrestling fans" not liking Cena although both are provably false. I must say, though, nice of you to suck on Rocky's dick. Maybe you should try expanding as an artist and start using your own material. Just a thought.

of course not. I'm not getting that notion at all. (wink and the gun)

Good, I was kinda worried there for a moment. I mean, anyone who can actually read can understand that I give most the benefit of the doubt and try to see things from their perspective most of the time. I wouldn't want to think that you're just some narrow minded ignorant bro type with no true feelings or thoughts but merely operating on self centered reactions...

irrelevant

Hardly. You just spent a post saying mostly nothing, proving my point.

it would SEEM that you're more butthurt than anyone on this thread.
Calm down.

The message I got from you calling me the biggest douche on planet Earth simply for my first post says otherwise. It's ok; flattery will get you everywhere with me, baby.

what the hell do you think my whole post is about? Crap. This is a JOHN CENA COMPLAINT.........forget it.

No, see, you couldn't just say "you know, I really don't like Cena. I used to kinda, but I don't anymore. I think he could use with some freshening up. I just don't enjoy seeing him" or something like that. But no, you have to be just like a bunch of these other idiots and spin it all into somehow Cena is a horrible person or a horrible worker or blah blah blah blah, all because you just don't like him.

Prove it.
Prove his persona is real. Prove that his in ring ability is above par when someone isn't carrying him the whole match. Prove that his mic skills aren't questionable. Prove that he's not corny. Prove that he's not a corporate puppet just there to make the money because he HATES that he can't change.
PROVE THAT HE'S NOT THE PHONY WE THINK HE IS.

Um, you made the accusations buddy. The burden of proof is on you to prove him as a fake. This doesn't go down Senator McCarthy style. You really aren't any good at this debate thing. You see, it's like this:

YOU: CENA IS TEH PHONY!

ME: I disagree, sir. Also, your pants are on your head. Is that intentional?

YOU: YES! NAU PROVE HE IS NOT TEH PHONY!

ME: Um, sir, you made the point first, shouldn't you make your case as to why he is a phony?

YOU: BECAUSE HE IS! HE MAKES DA MONEY AND HE DUN DO WAT I LIKE HIM TO DO, SO HE IS TEH PHONY BALONEY!

ME: You really don't know how this is supposed to go, do you? You see it's like this...

You get the idea. You made the accusation, baby. Are you going to back them up with anything beyond your own feeble opinion? Because if that is valid enough for you, I can counter it with my own opinion that Cena is a little ridiculous and a little smug but that's probably what he's really like anyway and so he seems genuine to me, and definitely not phony.

I don't know the man personally. So my OPINION toward him is speculation based on how I feel and what I've seen so I can't in reality prove that he IS a phony.

Somehow I get the feeling that that isn't going to stop you from your little crusade though. Sigh.

But then again,
YOU can't prove that he's not.

Except, as Hamler has already pointed out, by using his own words. I mean, you guys drop Rocky promo quotes like they are the gospel, so that's got to be worth something, right? I mean, if you guys felt otherwise, it'd make you outstanding hypocrits. Oh....oh wait...

So back the hell up off me.

WAAH, I DON'T LIKE YOU DISAGREEING WITH ME, GO AWAY!

Aww, there there little guy. It's ok. I didn't mean to cut down each and every argument you've made as the baseless accusations that they are. Go inside and study really hard and come back once you KNOW WHAT THE FUCK YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND HOW TO EXPRESS IT IN ANYTHING BUT CHILDISH HYPERBOLE.

the end.com

404'd!

Also, the only thing off the top of my head that I can think of that Punk may have took from Jericho is the knee high wrestling boots.

And the whole "Best in the world" thing. Kinda a big point for his current push and it's stolen right out of the Jericho 2009/2010 playbook.

However, when it comes to Cena ripping off Hogan, it is fact. Hogan worked THE SAME MATCH FOR 10 YEARS. It was a formula with no variation.

Except for the times he loses. Or does moves that aren't part of his usual routine. Or works spot he's never done before in gimmick matches he's never done before. Nope. No variation ever. Not one. Thought I saw him do a dropkick a little while back. And a leg drop from the turnbuckle. I thought those were new, but I must be mistaken.

In recent years, Cena has strayed away from it somewhat, but he still does the pointless moves of doom. Those moves are not why I hate him, but the moves are only useful if they're done in the full out Hulk Out mode where they all lead to an instant finish of the match. Otherwise the moves just look stupid and he should stop doing the 5 knuckle shuffle all together.

First of all, the 5 moves argument is stupid. Rocky had his set ups. Hart had his. Everyone did, for the most part. And yeah, I totally see it win every time, except the times it doesn't. Wait, what....

Oh, second of all, about the 5 knuckle...I felt that way about the People's Elbow too. Which, btw, was totally ripped off from Hogan's style. Boom.

Back on point, Hogan was the only guy to work the "Hogan formula", where all of his matches ended the same way. Cena comes along in 05 and starts doing the same thing. He defeated JBL literally with just the 5 moves of doom.

Is this...the best you've got? Really? It's funny, the guy above you talks about how REAL wrestling fans who KNOW THE PAST are the ones who hate Cena, and here you come a post of two later blowing that theory of his out of the god damned water. Best of all, you act like Cena decided himself that he was going to book himself to be like that, or that it was somehow a Hogan exclusive to be a dominant fighting babyface champion.

So, Mr. Hypocrite. Cena's gimmick is created using a bit of Hogan and it's a sin, but Punk can just out and out copy near word for word what Jericho was saying and doing before he left and it's edgy? LULZ. You kids crack me up.

 

[RD_21]

Yeah, but I guess you haven't seen Forrest Gump, so the joke's on me somehow. Moving on...

Saw it but in French lol, just don't understand the need to knock or was it tongue in cheek, anyway no biggie.

Rocky and Austin never really felt the need to create new things, except maybe Rocky going "lalalalalalalalalala" now every time he says "if you smell...". Why should Cena? Where is this double standard coming from?

That's a good question and unlike some people who will deny the similarities, I am well aware of them. Maybe it's the fact that there was 2 of them, adds the fact that the WWE had WAY more star power in general and more possible feuds where you never knew the outcome before the PPV (well Austin would almost always get screwed but still).

Maybe it has to do with me being in high school at the time and having a lot of friends to share the excitement of wrestling with, me being younger and me "knowing" less about the business.

Or maybe it's the fact that I was relying and liking their character more, I can't really tell for sure, I know they were always doing the same thing and I noticed it really bad for Austin especially in his last run where he was only doing his signatures moves, but it didn't bother me that much for them, but then again the double standard are probably coming down to feelings.

Since I liked their characters better I didn't mind those while I may see it more as far as Cena goes because I am tired of his acts and character. I know that it is how Vince want his face to work but to me it's not cutting it anymore and I may be the problem here.

 

[[cL]]

Missed me baby?[not really.] Ok, let's break this down:

Blah blah blah blah..blah blah blah...blah blah blah...i'm right...blah blah blah....ur stupid...blah blah blah.....whatev's...blah blah blah.....get a clue...blah blah....blah blah...
blah blah blah.....
quote end quote..blah blah blah..some more...blah blah...insult insult....fact...good point...blah blah blah.......dummy...blah blah blah......you don't know nothing...blah blah blah..you can't see me....
whatever.

You know what Dirty Sanchez, I will concede that him being phony is a Rock argument that i agreed with and my argument to support that is based on a theory. And I believed my theory had good legs.
His music didn't sell well. Selling 1.3 million in 5 years is bad. I don't care where you debuted, if 5 years later you're just selling a million then i'm going to have to say its not a good look. (I have been in the music business for over 15 years with multiple songs on national radio and just received my quarterly royalty check yesterday so I DO know what i'm talking about.)
As much money as his movies made, they weren't blockbuster hits.
But to be fair, neither were Rock's...at least up until Fast Five.
So my theory to support Rock's argument, that i took on as a part of my argument, is that, John Cena is a phony due to the fact that I believed that had his music or acting not sucked he'd probably have left too but because they DO suck he HAS to stick with wrestling because he ain't GOT nothin else.
But I don't know him to know that he doesn't have anything else and that's baseless so I will retract that argument. Cause I can admit when I'm wrong.
It is pure speculation and not based on fact at all.
Now.
I simply don't have the time to go point for point with you. You're not going to stop me from saying how I feel as much as I'm not going to stop you from saying ignorant factless insults to get your point across. You don't like that I don't just say, I don't like him. You'd rather me not "come up with" reasons. You'd rather me not have an opinion as to why I think MY reasons are valid. You just want me to say, "you know, I really don't like Cena. I used to kinda, but I don't anymore. I think he could use with some freshening up. I just don't enjoy seeing him" or something like that.

Fine. To pacify YOU (who's selfish now?) I'll say it.
"You know Dirty Sanchez, I really don't like Cena. I used to kinda, but I don't anymore. I think he could use with some freshening up. I just don't enjoy seeing him." Or something like that.

BUT THEN, another Cena Lover (or you, out of pure spite) would say, WHAT? Waddaya mean freshening up?
And I would say:
By freshening up I mean, evolve. Change things up. I don't care about the 5 moves of doom because everyone has their finishing bonanza of moves...as a matter of fact the only reason why his gets called out so much is because (and this is pure speculation of course) i believe, most people are sick of seeing HIS! But i digress.

In my opinion he has not evolved as a wrestler. I think his in ring work is sloppy. I think that he does a lot of no selling "injured" or "worked on" parts of his body. (And maybe Hogan DID do the same thing when he "Hulked Up" but I was too young to realize that then. I know more about wrestling now then I did then, and looking back it was ridiculous then as much as it is now.)
I think as a top face of the company his mic work is terrible. I don't know if he is writing his own stuff or having it written for him, but whoever is doing it is doing a terrible job. Talking loud with a scowl on your face doesn't equal emotion. The promo he did last night was one of the worst ones yet. It was forced and awkward in my opinion and it, to me, did nothing to sell the PPV. But that is yet to be seen.
But this is your TOP FACE. This is the face of the company.
Some people may think he should just coast in what he's doing. They think he should just continue because some of the greats never changed. Well some of them didn't. But some of them did.
Hulk Hogan - Hollywood Hogan: The greatest wrestling personality of all time, changed. Went from fan favorite to one of the most hated wrestlers ever.
the Undertaker - The American Badass: The Undertaker is one of the greatest gimmicks ever and he changed. Style, music, everything. He went back to being the Undertaker but even that in itself has evolved over his career. He had an urn..now he ain't got no urn. He used to wear the pale white makeup and gloves now he ain't GOT no pale white make up and he wears MMA gloves. The basis of the character has stayed pretty much the same but he's evolved in ways that keeps him interesting, TO ME.
Mick freakin Foley was 3 guys at the same time and EXTREMELY over with each one.

I've only sited these because they are the only ones i can think of at the moment.

Anyway, what would John Cena LOSE from making a few tweaks here and there? Those who love him are gonna love him, period. Those who hate him may change their opinion. (like me!) Whats wrong with doing something different... just to SEE what happens... When the Undertaker changed to the ABA he lost some people because they loved the deadman but it worked for that time and when it didn't work anymore, he went back to the deadman.
My thing is if he tried something and it didn't work ok, at least you tried something different. But again, my opinion is, he's comfortable with being where he is, because he's going to cater to those who love him for that. Which to me, is a cop out because he's not a Steve Austin type. He's not a Rock personality. His is not the kind of gimmick where you can get away with that.
His gimmick is the superman, good guy, fight for whats right, hug the girl, kiss the baby, thumbs up hero that should be the standard for what a person should be. His gimmick is Hulkamania 2.0 for the 21st century. And that's great. That's fine.
But every arena he goes into he's getting booed. Not by everyone, but by enough people that its noticeable. He got booed where he LIVES. And THAT'S saying something. Especially when it was either a week or two before he went to Chicago and Punks people booed him out of the building. You'd think him being at home, more people would like him...but when they don't even like you at home.......? When you can't get a Punk/Chicago response from where you live...that's bad. and I know Punk reps Chicago to the fullest, but still....really, booed where you live???

I don't want him to change for me. I want him to evolve for the business. (here's that empathy you asked for)
How much more money would he make for the company if he turned haters into believers? Sure he's never going to persuade "the millions". Not entirely. But he may turn some of them with some mic skill upgrades. He may turn more of them with some better in ring work. He may even get more of them if he begins to sell pain in the ring. Look vulnerable. I remember watching Punk fight Trips at NOC and HHH had been working on Punks leg. HHH was on the announce table and Punk was going to drop the elbow on him from the top rope. On his way up the top he was hitting his leg as to make it look like he was trying to get feeling in it. He was on top at the moment, but still selling the injury.
John doesn't do that. I've seen him in multiple matches getting his butt whooped and then all of a sudden the cape comes out he wins the match and after its over...he's chillin. Smiling in the camera like nothing happened. The only time he sells an injury is if he is REALLY hurt. And that sucks because if it takes him to really get hurt in order to sell an injury how weak does that make his opponent look?
Whats wrong with Cena being booked to make other stars look good for a longer period of time? They sold NOC with him not being in the MAIN main event...but they still had to put the belt back on him. He can't NOT be the man.
John Cena is a work horse. Thats not in question. When I say he's lazy i'm not referring to his work ethic. I'm referring to his inability to evolve, as a character and as a wrestler. The WWE's inability to believe in someone else to carry the company or to be top dog along with Cena is making him lazy. In my opinion. He won't change anything up, he won't evolve because they've put his face on everything and made him to believe that what he's giving out is enough. When in reality theres nothing wrong with a little evolution. Theres nothing wrong with him adding to his repertoire. Doing what he could do to try to win over the millions. Why not? Why not just try? That's what I mean when I say he needs to freshen up.

Evolution. Its not just for monkeys anymore.

AS FOR YOU, You also need to evolve. You have a knack for words and i'll give you that, but your inability to debate with someone without using judgements and insults causes a good point you may have made to simply make you look and sound like an absolute douchebag.
Maybe some changes would be good for you too.

 

[1TheGreatOne1]

The fuck? what's this thread?


I was under the impression it was a CENA COMPLAINTS THREAD, where users could vent what they dislike about Cena.

All of a sudden it's turned into an "I love Cena thread" lolzletsdefendcena ..


Here's my contribution:=
HIS CHARACTER IS STALE AND BORING. GET HIM OFF MY SCREEN. STOP BURYING TALENT. STOP CUTTING LAME CORNY BI-POLAR HYPOCRITICAL PROMOS.

 

[BaraaTKF992]

I always thought of cena as the most overrated superstarr in the history of the WWE.

wonder why?

1- he is holding many talents back.
miz,del rio,barret and batista , all great talents and future champions were hold back by super cena.

2-he is boring as a wrestler , he only have the 5 moves of doom.

3-he won the world championship a billion times.
can someone please tell me why the legendry heartbreak kid shawn michaels won the world championship just 4 time in his whole 22 years career while cena won it 12 time in his just 9 years career , and no thats not because he is better that shawn.

4- the way he wins matches as of late is simply disgusting, the way he won against r-truth at capitol punishment and the way he won against punk in the no 1 contender match on RAW is a disgrace.

I JUST HATE JOHN CENA.

 

[The Champ]

I always thought of cena as the most overrated superstarr in the history of the WWE.

wonder why?

1- he is holding many talents back.
miz,del rio,barret and batista , all great talents and future champions were hold back by super cena.

2-he is boring as a wrestler , he only have the 5 moves of doom.

3-he won the world championship a billion times.
can someone please tell me why the legendry heartbreak kid shawn michaels won the world championship just 4 time in his whole 22 years career while cena won it 12 time in his just 9 years career , and no thats not because he is better that shawn.

4- the way he wins matches as of late is simply disgusting, the way he won against r-truth at capitol punishment and the way he won against punk in the no 1 contender match on RAW is a disgrace.

I JUST HATE JOHN CENA.

Terrible. Just a terrible post.

1. He didn't hold any of those guys back. Miz? Lost to him in the main event of WrestleMania. Doesn't matter if it wasn't "clean" (actually it was, since the stip was No DQ). The record books say WWE Champion The Miz defeated John Cena. So no, he didn't hold Miz back. He didn't even encounter Miz properly until after he was already WWE Champion.

Del Rio? WWE took the title off Del Rio because they panicked about the ratings, plus they probably realized how his promos weren't improving at all. Not Cena's fault. Del Rio losing the title is on him and on the bookers for always having a knee jerk reaction to everything.

Barrett? Are you kidding me? Cena is THE reason why Barrett was the top heel on Raw last year. Of course he was going to come out on top in the end, he's a face. The face wins the feud in the end, that's how it's been in wrestling for years and years. That's how a properly done storyline works. Barrett sinking down to the midcard after that had nothing to do with Cena, considering it happened after he got moved to SmackDown, a show which Cena is not on.

Batista? Really? The hell? Batista beat Cena clean in 2008 and dominated him for weeks before Cena beat him at WrestleMania. Batista was already a HUGE star before ever facing Cena in a match. He had been World Heavyweight Champion THREE times before ever facing Cena. I mean, come on, he was more than made and Cena did nothing to hurt him. He was on his way out when Cena started beating him anyway.

2. Tell me who your favorite wrestler is and we can compare five moves of doom. Because I guarantee that you like at least one person who does or has done the exact same thing, unless you just don't like any top faces. I'm gonna guess that you like Punk because of your avatar and banner, and he won a tag team match with his own five moves of doom just last week. Let's not ignore history here.

3. WWE changes the titles too much nowadays, that's why. Plus, there are two titles to win in the company rather than just one. Stop looking so much into statistics that reflect on booking far more than they do on any one superstar. The number of world titles a person has won in his career is no indication of how much better or worse he is than someone else with a different amount.

4. So you don't like that he wins matches due to distractions. Do you prefer it when he beats people clean? Because that's certainly happened plenty of times over his career. If anything, beating Punk the way he did just helped to keep Punk looking strong. And the Truth thing fit perfectly with the storyline, and was a fitting conclusion with "Little Jimmy" serving him justice. Again, story arcs are very important.