**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

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Sorry, you're entirely wrong. The WWE Championship is absolutely a World Championship. In fact, like it or not, it's objectively the most important and longest running world title in wrestling currently (before you jump down my throat, the current WWE WHC is an entirely different title than the NWA/WCW Title. Its lineage started in 2002. The WCW Championship does not exist anymore).

The main title of any promotion is recognized as the World championship of that brand, regardless of whether or not the title of the belt actually contains the word "World".

Under your own logic, Flair is only a 14 time world champion, since two of his 16 reigns were with the WWF Title.

The WWE Championship is NOT a world title.. It doesn't even say WORLD anything on the title itself. And no, just because its the "main" title in wwe doesn't mean it's automaticly a world title. If it was a world title then the wwe would announce the champion as "WWE World Heavyweight Champion, JOHN CEENAAAA" The WWE Championship is not world title.

According to the WWE World heavyweight championship.

WWE
Worldheavyweightchampionship2.jpg


WCW
WCWWORLD.jpg



So you see, same design accept the wwe logo was added to WHC.. So it is indeed the WCW World Heavyweight championship.. It may not be recognized as that anymore, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that was once the WCW WHC.
OLD WWF World title
wwf-belt.jpg


Cena_wwebelt.jpg



There is only one world heavyweight champion in the wwe and that person is sheamus.. Even the wwe doesn't reconize the wwe championship as a world title.


Career Highlights: World Heavyweight Champion; WWE Champion; U.S. Champion; World Tag Team Champion; WWE Tag Team Champion; 2008 Royal Rumble Winner; 2012 Money in the Bank Ladder Match winner for a WWE Championship Contract
 
So what?

Flair was a wrestler. Cena is a wrestler. There's no good rea... oh wait. The IWC are sentimental morons who don't like Cena. I'm with ya'. DOWN WITH CENA! IF HE TAKES THIS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS RECORD AWAY FROM A GREAT LIKE FLAIR I'LL BE OUTRAGED! OUTRAGED I SAY! TITLES ARE MEANINGLESS NOW BECAUSE OF THE SHORT REIGNS DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE MAJORITY OF FLAIRS REIGNS WOULD BE CONSIDERED SHORT BY MODERN STANDARDS!

The WWE Championship is NOT a world title.. It doesn't even say WORLD anything on the title itself. And no, just because its the "main" title in wwe doesn't mean it's automaticly a world title. If it was a world title then the wwe would announce the champion as "WWE World Heavyweight Champion, JOHN CEENAAAA" The WWE Championship is not world title.

According to the WWE World heavyweight championship.

WWE
Worldheavyweightchampionship2.jpg


WCW
WCWWORLD.jpg



OLD WWF World title
wwf-belt.jpg


Cena_wwebelt.jpg

This is so stupid I'm actually a little bit upset.
 
The WWE Championship is NOT a world title.. It doesn't even say WORLD anything on the title itself. And no, just because its the "main" title in wwe doesn't mean it's automaticly a world title. If it was a world title then the wwe would announce the champion as "WWE World Heavyweight Champion, JOHN CEENAAAA" The WWE Championship is not world title.

According to the WWE World heavyweight championship.

WWE
Worldheavyweightchampionship2.jpg


WCW
WCWWORLD.jpg



OLD WWF World title
wwf-belt.jpg


Cena_wwebelt.jpg



There is only one world heavyweight champion in the wwe and that person is sheamus.. Even the wwe doesn't reconize the wwe championship as a world title.


Career Highlights: World Heavyweight Champion; WWE Champion; U.S. Champion; World Tag Team Champion; WWE Tag Team Champion; 2008 Royal Rumble Winner; 2012 Money in the Bank Ladder Match winner for a WWE Championship Contract


You have to be a troll, you can't possibly believe what you are saying.

First of all, if you want to get technical, Cena is a *10* time WWE Champion and a *2* time World Heavyweight Champion. But they are *both* recognized as world titles by the WWE. This is not a matter of opinion, this is a fact. This is why Randy Orton is routinely called a 9 time world champion when those runs were a combination of the 2, and Edge is an 11 time world champion when his runs are a combination of the 2, and Cena is a 12 time world champion when his runs are a combination of the 2.

WWE recognizes 2 world titles. They used to recognize 3, when ECW was a brand. Winning MITB or winning the Rumble allowed the winner to face his pick of "any of the 3 world champions."

This is just like when the WWF World Heavyweight Title and the WCW World Heavyweight Title were both in the same company, except WCW is dead, so they aren't going to call the title that any more, so they decided to call it just WHC instead, and to call the former WWF WHC title just the WWE title to avoid confusion between the 2.

But both are recognized as World titles and WWE title is recognized as the bigger of the two.
 
So what?

Flair was a wrestler. Cena is a wrestler. There's no good rea... oh wait. The IWC are sentimental morons who don't like Cena. I'm with ya'. DOWN WITH CENA! IF HE TAKES THIS TOTALLY MEANINGLESS RECORD AWAY FROM A GREAT LIKE FLAIR I'LL BE OUTRAGED! OUTRAGED I SAY! TITLES ARE MEANINGLESS NOW BECAUSE OF THE SHORT REIGNS DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE MAJORITY OF FLAIRS REIGNS WOULD BE CONSIDERED SHORT BY MODERN STANDARDS!



This is so stupid I'm actually a little bit upset.

How is that so stupid ? Even WWE doesn't recognize the WWE championship as a world title your moron. How about you go over to the WWE page, email them and ask them yourself and they will tell you the same thing as they did me... "No, the WWE Championship is not a world title." and they will tell you their current world title holder is and that would be sheamus"
 
You have to be a troll, you can't possibly believe what you are saying.

First of all, if you want to get technical, Cena is a *10* time WWE Champion and a *2* time World Heavyweight Champion. But they are *both* recognized as world titles by the WWE. This is not a matter of opinion, this is a fact. This is why Randy Orton is routinely called a 9 time world champion when those runs were a combination of the 2, and Edge is an 11 time world champion when his runs are a combination of the 2, and Cena is a 12 time world champion when his runs are a combination of the 2.

WWE recognizes 2 world titles. They used to recognize 3, when ECW was a brand. Winning MITB or winning the Rumble allowed the winner to face his pick of "any of the 3 world champions."

This is just like when the WWF World Heavyweight Title and the WCW World Heavyweight Title were both in the same company, except WCW is dead, so they aren't going to call the title that any more, so they decided to call it just WHC instead, and to call the former WWF WHC title just the WWE title to avoid confusion between the 2.

But both are recognized as World titles and WWE title is recognized as the bigger of the two.

So just because you don't agree with me, i'm a "troll"... haha!

The WWE title is absolutely not recognized as a world title, only thing you have to do is contact wwe and they will be more then happy to tell you that there is only one world championship in the wwe.
 
Did Ric Flair win the WCW heavyweight champion ship 16 times? NO

Did Flair win the WWE championship 16 times? NO

He is the 8 time NWA, 6 time WCW champion and 2 time WWF champion. So basically people have been recording Ric Flair's title reigns since he started in the business. This totals 16 times.

So when counting Cena the same way he is already at 14 times. Now Ric Flair is over 63 and has been wrestling since 72', how can anyone not expect that another person won't tumble that record. I am sure if we counted all the small company title wins we could find a guy who has more world titles than flair already. Cena is a step away from getting his title back and most likly will have a long run at 15 but even if he waits 5 years he will still have time and space to win more titles.

A 12 year career vs a 40 year career, Flair had many crap wins where it is dropped at a PPV and won back the next night. However they still count Cena will one day get there and sicne he won't use the name 17 time world champ it will never matter to the normal everyday fan.

All records are meant to be broken that even goes for those stupid records like fastest RR elimination. Breaking records proves that humans are getting better as we evolve more....even in a fake sport.
 
Although Ric Flair is billed as a 16 time World Champion he actually is a 22 -24, There are 6 or 7 titles in Mexico and I believe Japan that are not in the record books look up his stats on Wikipedia .
 
Cena will surpass it however I do think it really doesn't matter tbh. I'm sure everyone knows WWE these days is unlike WWE in the past so it's one of those things where there isn't much point in comparing. Having said that I do believe WWE have an opportunity to do a monumental match with Cena and Orton at Wrestlemania, for the WWE Championship with the winner officially breaking Flair's record. I know a lot of 'internet' guys won't like that but it's probably the absolute best match possible to really heave prestige onto the WWE Title in the future.
 
A few posters have said, "It means nothing." I think that is false.

It definitely means something and would be a big deal. I have no problem with it happening personally and think the OP is kind of funny as he is clearly a hater.

Let's be honest. All the talk about Ric Flair's titles "meaning more because they were harder to come by" is a fucking joke. His last FOUR world titles all came after 1996 when there were plenty of titles to go around. His last FIVE title reigns combined for a total of 139 days ... a whole 28 days per reign.

Ric Flair's legacy title are all BEFORE those 5, those were just tack-ons to up his total, so, I have no problem with someone beating that record.

As for Cena ... I personally do not think that he is going to make a run at the record, definitely not at breaking it, maybe just tying it. He will not want that. But, honestly, if he gets it ... he deserves it.

This business is about MAKING MONEY. None of these records are real. These guys don't go out and compete to win titles, they are given them in order to MAKE MONEY. If Cena continues to be the top guy for long enough to obtain enough titles to continue making boatloads of cash for the WWE, then he most definitely deserves it.

Also, as pointed out by someone else, it is not a foregone conclusion. He is still FIVE titles away. Five world championships is a hall of fame career all by itself. So, he is still a ways off from just tying. So no need to get all upset right now.
 
It will be the end of the world as we know it.

Seriously, There's a reason why Triple H didn't want to break Ric Flair's 16-time World Title Record. Aside from the Four Horsemen, it's what Flair is known for.

John Cena surpassing Flair's record would be... :banghead:. See, I can't even find the right words to express how I feel. Although Cena has a great chance to do it (given the facts that he's still in his prime and that he's only four World Titles away), it would be... :banghead:.

Okay, enough about being cute. While Cena has the status of a multiple-World Champion, HE STILL CAN'T WRESTLE. Therefore, he DOESN'T deserve to surpass Flair's record. God, he's ALREADY a 12-time World Champion, ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?!

But knowing the WWE, they just might be stupid enough to shove Cena down our thoats further...
 
I'll start off by saying I'm far from what you would consider a Cena fan. I think the character has become incredibly stale over the years, I don't consider him one of the better wrestlers in the WWE, but at the end of the day I have great respect for what the guy has done for the business since being thrown into the spotlight. And if he were to break the mark by capturing his 17th world title, i'd applaud him for it.

Let's face facts here, he is the face of wrestling right now and will continue to be for many more years as long as he can stay healthy. He's a consistent worker, he sells, he's said to be respected by a lot of people in the business, simply put he does his job and he does it well. Records are made to be broken, so if he did do it I'd have absolutely no problem because he would have earned it.
 
I know a lot of people think Flair is the greatest, but I am not one of them. The guy has finally been exposed as the lowlife scumbag he is and it's really sad to see him hanging on to his character and past glory like Mickey Rourke in the movie. He's burned pretty much every bridge in the business and I'd be thrilled to see John Cena overtake his number of world titles. Cena has been the #1 guy in the top company for 7 years, Flair was never the #1 guy of the top company.
 
I wouldn't want it to happen. Mainly because Cena has already done so much in the WWE and simply doesn't need to break the record. I think it would be unfair in some ways because the way things are going, Cena's legacy will eventually overshadow everybodies. I think this is something that he should go to far with. He is already in the HOF for sure, what more does he need to do?
 
In today's wrestling world it is entirely possible for someone to break Flair's record. World title reigns tend to be far shorter and in WWE they have two world titles. Cena only needs 5 more and he can easily achieve that in 5 years or so, with the condition he is in he should be able to keep working matches for a decade or more. For a long time I thought it would be Trips that set a new world title record, of course that didn't happen, he sure got close though. Cena is still in his prime and is very close. Honestly, the Cena haters will surely disagree but he is among the top of the list of the candidates who deserve to break Flair's record. No one has more passion for pro wrestling than John Cena.

He may not be amazing in the ring, but he's capable of putting on good matches and he generates such strong reactions from crowds whether you like him or hate him. Then there's his promos, popular merchandise, as well as his publicity appearances and make a wish actions which have been nothing but positive for the federation. The man accomplished his dream and then some. You need to look no further than Cena to find who should break Flair's record. He does deserve it and I think it will happen sooner than most may think. If it does, what will happen? All the Cena fans will be happily suporting the decision while the haters find yet another thing to post complaints about. That's it. Not much else would really happen, other than Cena setting a new record. Cena with 20 WWE/World Championships by his retirement is my prediction.
 
Really? Really? If anyone one deserves to be a 17 time world champion, its John Cena( Or maybe Hulk Hogan,but is alittle late for that). Why? Because he is hard working, influential, dedicated, technically sound, and for the last 10 year has been the largest star in the WWE. Cena gets alot of unwarranted hate. He isnt the greatest wrestler in the world , he isnt a great wrestler but he is a good wrestler, fundamentally sound, and far better then the 4 Move Wonder he is made out to be. He has great 4 or 5 star matches consistently. He holds some of the best feuds and matches with Edge, Shawn Micheals, CM Punk, Randy Orton and many more.

Honestly, I dont like Ric Fliar, never did. Maybe its because his prime was 30 years ago, and the last time he was really relevant was 15 years ago minimum. Not to mention, 7 of Flairs world titles came from NWA. Many people may not even know what the NWA is/was. but im not gonna take anything away from his regins. As long as it came from WWE,WCW, NWA, or TNA I believe it can be counted. But to think that flair should have an unbreakable record is ridiculous. and the idea that Cena is unworthy to do it is also just as ridiculous.

But lets face facts Cena is 35. He will most likely win a title before Wrestlemania. That brings him to 13. There is a very good chance he will still be going at 40. There is just alittle under 5 years until he hits 40 and alot of title can be won in 5 years. Cena won 3 WWE titles in 2011 alone so its almost a guarantee.

One last question, What are you gonna do? Protest? Stop watching the WWE? I thought Sheamus should have never won that first WWE title. So what? I think they should have held off on Dolph Zigglers first "Title reign" (if you can call it that). Swaggers should of never happened. Who gives a damn? There are very few things that would make me stop watching the WWE. Having the star of the WWE become a 17 time world champion is not one of them. If its for you, im not sure you are a true wrestling fan.
 
A lot of things in this world irritate the fuck out of me, not the least of which is when a fucking stupid idea is hyped as being legitimate and we just drink the fucking kool-aid.

What does it mean if the baseball team you own is a sixteen time World Series champion? It's a big fucking deal. What does it mean if Ric Flair drops a belt to Dusty Rhodes only to win it back a week later? It means that pro-wrestling is at times pretty fucking stupid.

Sixteen time world heavyweight champion? No shit. You lost the belt sixteen times? You drop the belt to Kerry Von Erich and promptly take it right back and that is supposed to make you a better champion than a fifteen time world heavyweight champion? Good fucking grief.

I don't count everytime someone loses a belt, I count the days they manage to stay relevant enough to justifiably wear the damn thing. Ric Flair would pretend to be so fucking noble by letting the fans have brief periods of a face title reign only to promptly get the belt back so it could count toward some idiotic record. I love Ric, but fucking a.

Of course Cena is a big enough doofus to think that politicking toward a seventeenth title reign will earn him anything special on the world of pro-wrestling. Try matching Bruno Sammartino's title reign if you want to be remembered.
 
As wrestling is scripted, in a way it doesn't mean that much if you have 1, 2 or 16 World Title reigns, it not as if you have won them in a legitimate sporting contest, and a number of both Flair and Cena's title reigns will have been only a few weeks, therefore much less impressive that Hogan or Sammartino's multi-year reigns.

In wrestling, the title just signifies- or is supposed to, that you are the guy the company believes is the best on the roster at that time, and you are trusted with being the main man in the federation. It is just a shame that Cena, who admittedly is a decent talent will more than likely go down as the most decorated champion of all time, indicating that WWE believed he was the best they had throughout his time with the company, and the record of a man rightly believed by most to be one of the best who ever wrestled, Ric Flair, will be beaten.
 
I'm a little tardy to this party, which is a shame because so many people said so many ridiculous things. Luckily I'm here to fix that.

What if Cena breaks Flairs record? If Cena breaks Flair's record we should all be happy. You see, John Cena is easily as good of a wrestler as Flair, and I'd even argue better. But more importantly, John Cena, from everything we currently know about him, is a MUCH better human being than Ric Flair.

If I had to pick between the two, I'd pick John Cena to be the record holder every single day of the week.
I won't be surprised but I will be pissed off, I wasn't alive for Flair's Title reigns but my dad and granddad talk about these things and they told me how different it was. The only saving grace is that Flair won them when the world title mattered where-as Cena's all mean nothing.
This is the biggest load of garbage. Don't let your father and grandfather delude you like this.

The WWE title is CLEARLY the most important and prestigious title in all of North American wrestling, if not the world. The majority of Flair's title runs came at a time when the WWF was kicking the crap out of the NWA. While Hogan was turning the WWF into a national sensation, Flair's NWA was limited to the South and wrestling magazines for hardcore fans like Dave Meltzer. John Cena is inarguably the greatest professional wrestler in the greatest professional wrestling company today. The WWE title today means far more than the NWA/WCW titles did when Flair won them.

And also, don't kid yourself about "how different it was". Yes, it was different, but it was different in a variety of ways. You're speaking mainly, I would suppose, about how titles get passed around more than they did. That is true, but you also have to remember the WWE is on prime time national television for 5 hours every week with a PPV every month. When Flair was winning his titles, the best wrestling could hope for was regional coverage on a late night slot on Saturday nights, or early morning spot on Sunday morning. The exposure to professional wrestling was much less back then, which means that Flair's reputation was built far more upon word of mouth (wrestling magazines) than it was based upon 4 million people across the country watching every week.

Furthermore, don't underestimate the value of Ric Flair as a heel in the territory system as a prime reason for his numerous title reigns. Flair's job was to take the title to various territories, and put the title on the line against that territory's top face. Flair spends a good portion of the match taking a beating, which sends the crowd into a frenzy for their hero, only for Flair to squeak out a victory, stealing the match along with the hopes of the crowd. This is important because it allowed each territory have their regional hero to look good and draw money with someone the promotion trusted, without having the title change hands. So it was definitely different back then, but the difference doesn't just help Cena, it also played into Flair's advantage.

You take the good with the bad. If John Cena does break Flair's record, it needs to be celebrated for the accomplishment it is, depending upon how much you value you place in fictional championships. If you hold Flair's record in high esteem, then you should hold Cena's record in equally as high of esteem.
 
I would say that Cena probably deserves to break the record, even putting aside that the title has been devalued in today's wrestling industry.

Think about the wrestling landscape since Wrestlemania 1 and how long the top guys have held on for.

Ric Flair arguably became the number one NWA (without any doubt about him being it long term) in 1985. By the time he left for WWF in 1991 the NWA was pretty much gone, WCW was a joke and he (arguably again) wasn't the top guy in the company. At the very least the company wasn't built around him any more. When he came back business was lukewarm and Hogan wasn't long behind him. Total time as top guy = 6 years

Hulk Hogan was the number one WWF guy from Wrestlemania 1 - 6, no questions asked (although Macho Man might have if he'd been positioned as a babyface champion). From then until Wrestlemania 9 he was kinda the top draw, he obviously wasn't around much between WM 8 & 9, Warrior was on top for much of the time after Wrestlemania 6, but overall you'd still say he was their number one guy.

He went to WCW, did lukewarm business until the nWo hit in 1996, with that run ending in 1999 when he and the company started throwing anything at the wall to make something stick. Total time as top guy = 9 - 12 years

Bret Hart picked up Hogan's ball in 1993 and ran with it til passing it off to HBK in 1996, arguably you could say he was the WWF's MVP in 1997 as well. Total time as top guys 3 - 4 years

HBK, never really got going as a face champion but was positioned that as the main guy in the company, arguably he was the MVP of 1997 in WWF. Total time as top guy 1-2 years

Steve Austin, arguably the biggest star in the wrestling from 1998 - 2001. Total time as top guy 3 years.

The Rock, arguably the biggest star in the wrestling world from 1999 - 2002. Total time as top guy 3 years.

Triple H & Brock Lesner - Take your pick as to who was the WWE's number one guy until Cena took over in 2005 Total time as top guy 3 years max depending on who you pick

John Cena - 2005 was his big 'I'm the man' year. He's had a strangle hold on being the top wrestling star in the world since then. Total time as top guy 7 years and counting.

So already only Hogan has been the top guy in the world for longer than Cena, and with Cena at least 7 of those years are inarguable. Some of Hogan's (1992, 1993, 1999) are very shaky and probably shouldn't be counted.
 
NO DOUBT .................. "FUTURE HALL OF FAME" ............. "MR. CENA" :wtf:
is indeed going to break all records that are there in WWE...........
HE IS WWE'S "MAN ":wtf: That is going to take company on his shoulders.....

he has got fan basis and haters than any other "HE IS PERFECT COMBO OF FACE AND HEEL"
SOLID GIMMICK...................makes him to be there with WWE for longer time ........

SOOOOOOOOOO............... that being said his long run with WWE makes him at least 1 or 2 no. 1 contender for world championship in a year.
& absolute a champ for once in a year.............!!!!!!!

so all of us can only pray TO SEE CENA NO MORE:banghead:
 
I don't post very often, I usually just read the threads because someone usually says what im thinking but I felt I have to leave my mark on this one. IMO it doesn't feel right for Cena to pass flair's title reigns. Flair is arguably one of the greatest of all time. Here's two more names I feel will go down as two of the greatest ever; The Rock and Stone Cold. The Rock has 7 reigns, Stone Cold has 6, and John Cena... 11? :rolleyes::rolleyes: :banghead: Cena may be the face of the company but he will never be as great as the others...Fact. If someone is going to pass Flair, it needs to be someone worthy of doing so. Unfortunately it's probably going to be Cena and you will see me throwing my remote through my 50 inch flat screen when it happens...
 
If Cena breaks Flairs record it means that he has won more title then him in a scripted and pre determined sport. Soooooo, whats the big deal.
Why not have Cena break it. Maybe down the road somebody will break his. Records are made to be broken. Is Cena a better wrestler then Flair? No. But that’s about it. Not knocking Flair but thats it. You could say Flair is better at promos and on the mic but Cena rally came into his own with the whole Rock storyline, so he isnt as bad as we thought. He sells more, be alot better financially in terms of what to do with his money.(Ask his wife she was spending too much, you gots to go Bitch) Also he has a better role model type of character to portray. I say character because no one truly knows how he is behind closed doors.
 
Due to the fact that not many people care or even know about Flair's record, not much would happen. Unless the WWE writers made a story out of it. But still, it'snot that prestigous of a record. Think about it, in order to be a 16-time world champion, you have to lose a world championship 15 times. A more prestigous record would be the longest world title reign which in today's WWE, would never do well. Most world title reigns last a couple months. If they go much longer, the kids get tired of seeing the same guy holding the belt. The record for the longest WWE title reign will never be approached, it would have to last almost a decade to break the record. However, the longest WHC reign could be broken and even in today's WWE, might not bore the crowd if you crown the right superstar. The reign wouldn't even have to last a year. To me, it's quality over quantity.
 
I would say that Cena probably deserves to break the record, even putting aside that the title has been devalued in today's wrestling industry.

Think about the wrestling landscape since Wrestlemania 1 and how long the top guys have held on for.

Ric Flair arguably became the number one NWA (without any doubt about him being it long term) in 1985. By the time he left for WWF in 1991 the NWA was pretty much gone, WCW was a joke and he (arguably again) wasn't the top guy in the company. At the very least the company wasn't built around him any more. When he came back business was lukewarm and Hogan wasn't long behind him. Total time as top guy = 6 years

Hulk Hogan was the number one WWF guy from Wrestlemania 1 - 6, no questions asked (although Macho Man might have if he'd been positioned as a babyface champion). From then until Wrestlemania 9 he was kinda the top draw, he obviously wasn't around much between WM 8 & 9, Warrior was on top for much of the time after Wrestlemania 6, but overall you'd still say he was their number one guy.

He went to WCW, did lukewarm business until the nWo hit in 1996, with that run ending in 1999 when he and the company started throwing anything at the wall to make something stick. Total time as top guy = 9 - 12 years

Bret Hart picked up Hogan's ball in 1993 and ran with it til passing it off to HBK in 1996, arguably you could say he was the WWF's MVP in 1997 as well. Total time as top guys 3 - 4 years

HBK, never really got going as a face champion but was positioned that as the main guy in the company, arguably he was the MVP of 1997 in WWF. Total time as top guy 1-2 years

Steve Austin, arguably the biggest star in the wrestling from 1998 - 2001. Total time as top guy 3 years.

The Rock, arguably the biggest star in the wrestling world from 1999 - 2002. Total time as top guy 3 years.

Triple H & Brock Lesner - Take your pick as to who was the WWE's number one guy until Cena took over in 2005 Total time as top guy 3 years max depending on who you pick

John Cena - 2005 was his big 'I'm the man' year. He's had a strangle hold on being the top wrestling star in the world since then. Total time as top guy 7 years and counting.

So already only Hogan has been the top guy in the world for longer than Cena, and with Cena at least 7 of those years are inarguable. Some of Hogan's (1992, 1993, 1999) are very shaky and probably shouldn't be counted.

Flair was NWA Champ for two and half years straight 1981-83 and 1984-86, Im not sure how you can say he didnt become a "Top Guy" until 1985, that's like saying The New England Patriots didnt become champions till 2004, neglecting the two Super Bowls they won in 2001 & 2003.

As for Cena, if he does break the record long time fans will not pay as much attention to it because his reigns have been shorter. Now that is in part due to the change in the business model, top quality matches on live TV every week and monthly PPV events means faster storyline progression. Up until Eric Bischoff and the advent of expanded PPV and Monday Nitro the pro wrestling business model was slower storylines, played out all over the house show circuit, culminating at one of the handfull of signature events each year (WrestleMania, Starrcade, Great American Bash, SummerSlam, SuperBrawl, Royal Rumble). Cena's reigns have been shorter, not necessarily because he isnt popular but because storylines move faster.

In 1987 Flair had only four feuds - the end of the 1986 Nikita Kolloff fued through Feb, Barry Whyndam March-May, Jimmy Garvin May-July, and Ronnie Garvin Aug-Nov. He was champ almost all year except a 2 month period rihgt before Starrcade 87 in late November, main evented all over the US, yet had only four steady feuds, one of which was ending as the year began, having started in Oct of 86.

Randy Savage's last WWE Title run lasted 6 months (April-Sept 1992) and he had only two feuds, Flair & Ultimate Warrior. For a guy who is World Champion, wrestling constantly, that wouldnt happen today.

Now, if Flair didnt consistently draw well, especially since the house show business was more essential to company income without the PPV revenue that exists today, he wouldnt have had multiple reigns each lasting between 13 months and 26 months. Likewise the belt wouldnt have kept coming back to Cena after short hiatuses if he wasnt popular with the fans.

Still, to me because Flair had so many reigns of extreme length his record is more impressive than what Cena has right now. Flair held the World Tile for at least part of the year every year from 1981-1996, 15 consecutive years, absolutely amazing. During those years he defended the title against Hogan, Savage, Harley Race, Sting, Brett Hart, Undertaker, Dusty Rhodes, Ricky Steamboat, Lex Luger, Bruiser Brody, Terry Funk, wrestled Title vs Title matches vs WWE Champ Bob Backlund (1983) & AWA Champ Rick Martel (1985), wrestled numerous title matches in Japan & Puerto Rico as well as Germany and New Zealand among other places, it's an amazing run. The legendary names that Flair defeated for title wins including Hogan & Savage, Sting, Rhodes, Race reads like a veritable who's who of pro wrestling in the 80's & 90's. Cena simply hasnt matched that, and in some ways due to changes in the business he never will.

As far as the argument that some of his reigns were short, you can say that about almost any multi time champ, including HHH, Cena, Edge, Orton, and Hogan & Savage. The fact so many of them lasted 6 plus months overshadows that, especially considering how often he wrestled (remember from 1981-85 Flair was averaging by his count around 380 matches per year counting his overseas bookings, tag team bouts, and TV tapings and even after 1986 up until the end of 1988 he was performing well over two hundred matches per year, similair to what today's full time wrestling stars do. )Jim Crockett Jr started restricting Flair's outside bookings in 86, not wanting him risking injury or making money for competitors as things became more heated with the NWA-WWE rivalry.

As far as "quality reigns" Flair's 1st (1981-83), 2nd (Nov 83-May 84), 3rd (May 84-July 86), 4th (Aug 86-Sept 87), 5th (Nov 87-Feb 89), 6th (May 89-June 90), 7th (Jan 91-July 91) and 11'th (Nov 93-July 94) all lasted roughly 6 months or more. He had two reigns separated by about three weeks between Dec 95-April 96 (basically to pump interest into a SuperBrawl Cage Match between him & Savage they had Savage beat him on a live Nitro a few weeks prior to the event, then Flair won it back on the PPV).

Just for reference, Flair's official Title Lineage reads like this...

1) NWA Title June 81 (def Dusty Rhodes) - Lost June 83 (Harley Race)

2) NWA Title Nov 83 (Race, at Starrcade) - Lost May 1984 (Kerry Von Erich)

3) NWA Title (Von Erich) May 1984 - Lost July 1986 (Rhodes)

4) NWA Title Aug 1986 (Rhodes) - Lost Sept 1987 (R. Garvin)

5) NWA Title Nov 1987 (R. Garvin, at Starracade) - Lost Feb 89 (Steamboat)

6) NWA Title May 1989 (Steamboat) - Lost June 1990 (Sting)

7) WCW Title Jan 1991 (Sting) - Lost July 1991 (Stripped)

8) WWF Title Jan 92 (Royal Rumble) - Lost April 1992 (R. Savage)

9) WWF Title Sept 92 (Savage) - Lost Oct 1992 (B. Hart)

10) NWA Title (also known as the "International Title" at one point) June 1993 (B. Whyndam) - Lost Sept 1993 (Rick Rude)

11) WCW Title Dec 1993 (Vader, at Starrcade) - Lost July 94 (H. Hogan)

12) WCW Title Dec 1995 (Savage, Starrcade - def Sting & Luger in Triangle Match immediately prior to title match with Savage) - Lost Jan 96 (Savage on Monday Nitro)

13) WCW Title Feb 96 (Savage, at SuperBrawl) - Lost April 96 (Giant, aka Big Show, on Monday Nitro)

14) WCW Title March 99 (H. Hogan) - Lost April 99 (DDP, in 4 Corners Match also involving Hogan & Sting)

15) WCW Title May 2000 (J. Jarrett, Monday Nitro) - Stripped of title due to injury by Vince Russo

16) WCW Title June 2000 (awarded title by Kevin Nash due to having never lost it in the ring) - Lost Title same night (J. Jarrett)

There is some discrepancy regarding two issues - one, some people do not like to separate the two reigns in May 2000 - WCW did officially recognize Jarrett & Kevin Nash as champs in between however so WWE and Pro Wrestling illustarted Magazine recognize them as two separate reigns.

Title reign #11 was "suspended" briefly in April 1994 following the "double pin" scenario in a PPV match vs Steamboast where it appeared both wrestlers pinned each other and WCW Commisioner Nick Bockwinkle ruled the bout a draw. Upset over the perception he should have lost, Flair "gave the belt" to Bockwinkle and told him to hold it till he beat Steamboat in the re match. Flair cleanly pinned Steamboat in the subsequent re match but WCW treated the affair as if the current reign had never stopped.

There is some dispute over a reign not recognized by many outlets, the infamous "Singapore Title Swap" where Flair & Race, headlining against each other on a tour of Asia, essentially swapped the title, Race wining the belt, setting up added interest in the subsequent re match in a nearby city with Flair, who promptly regained the title. Allegedly Flair & Race came up with this storyline on their own, it was not agreed to by Jim Crockett Jr or sanctioned by the NWA, in the US NWA Television and the Pro Wrestling Illustrated Magazines treated the affair as if it never happened.

In a Tokyo Dome match vs Tatsumi Fujinami in 1991 it appeared Tatsumi pinned Flair and won the WCW Title. However, WCW rules stated that an over the top rope dump could result in disqualification, and since Flair flipped Tatsumi over the top rope immediately prior to the pin being counted the match was over, Flair losing by DQ but retaining the title. The NWA Board of Governors, still in existence at this point and not officialy recognizing the WCW Championship as the same as the NWA title chose to recognize Tatsumi. The titles were again merged a few months later in the US when Flair pinned Tastumi in the re match. Wrestling fans at this time essentially considered the WCW Title as the newly re named but old, existing NWA Title, since the title was defended against all the wrestlers previously under contract to Jim Crockett Promotions under the NWA banner (now owned by Ted Turner & Turner Broadcasting, re christened WCW). Officially there was no interruption of Flair's World Title recognition.

Title reign 8 was the result of winning a 30 man battle royal, the WWF Title previously being stripped from Hulk Hogan and held up, to be awarded to the "Royal Rumble" winner, as a result of two highly controversial title matches (and title changes) between Hogan and Undertaker.

Title reign 14 was officially a "First Blood" match but the rules were amended before the bout started giving the referee discretion to stop match if one participat seemed unduly injured, not necessarily at the first sighting of blood. Consequently both Flair & Hogan bleed extensively in the match, held in a cage, until Hogan was "counted out" while stuck in the figure four.

In the early 80s, Flair would agree to "lose the title" in some of his indepenent bookings outside the US, setting up a bigger pay day for his anticiapted return and subsequent re match. Local wrestlers, popular with fans were typically the ones chosen to "win the belt". Flair typically would return a month or so after the "loss" and "regain" the championship. However, none of these were sanctioned by the NWA or agreed to by Jim Crockett Jr, as such in the US these "title switches" were never recognzized, Pro Wrestling Ilustrated Magazines and NWA affiliates alternately treated the matches as if they never happened, or were non title contests. Flair in interviews has estimated he maybe as many as 25 time champion counting these incidents.

in 1993 the NWA was promoting itself as a completely separate entity, a different company, but was partnered with the existing WCW, it's titles defended on WCW programs, it's wrestlers showcsed on WCW programs, and WCW wrestlers free to compete in the NWA. The situation was confusing to wrestling fans (think of WWE & Smokey Mountain Wrestling's association circa 1997, or the "roster split" of today). The NWA Title was recognized as a "World Title", making Flair's victory over Barry Whyndam at the 1993 Great American Bash officially title #10. Shortly therefater a falling out between NWA brass and WCW officials lead to the NWA no longe being affiliated with WCW. WCW had granted permission to the NWA to use the "Big Gold Belt" as it's championship belt, after the separation WCW kept the physical title belt, re named it the WCW International Title, and Flair promplty lost to Rick Rude. Eventually having two titles both treated like World Titles made no sense and International Champion Sting lost via pinfall to WCW Champ Flair in a Title Unification Bout in June 1994 (better known for Flair's heel turn, alliance with Sherri Martel, and Hulk Hogan's WCW debut). Flair was never granted an extra title here, basically his 11th title reign just "aborbed" the International Title.
 
I'm a little tardy to this party, which is a shame because so many people said so many ridiculous things. Luckily I'm here to fix that.

What if Cena breaks Flairs record? If Cena breaks Flair's record we should all be happy. You see, John Cena is easily as good of a wrestler as Flair, and I'd even argue better. But more importantly, John Cena, from everything we currently know about him, is a MUCH better human being than Ric Flair.


The WWE title is CLEARLY the most important and prestigious title in all of North American wrestling, if not the world. The majority of Flair's title runs came at a time when the WWF was kicking the crap out of the NWA. While Hogan was turning the WWF into a national sensation, Flair's NWA was limited to the South and wrestling magazines for hardcore fans like Dave Meltzer. John Cena is inarguably the greatest professional wrestler in the greatest professional wrestling company today. The WWE title today means far more than the NWA/WCW titles did when Flair won them.

And also, don't kid yourself about "how different it was". Yes, it was different, but it was different in a variety of ways. You're speaking mainly, I would suppose, about how titles get passed around more than they did. That is true, but you also have to remember the WWE is on prime time national television for 5 hours every week with a PPV every month. When Flair was winning his titles, the best wrestling could hope for was regional coverage on a late night slot on Saturday nights, or early morning spot on Sunday morning. The exposure to professional wrestling was much less back then, which means that Flair's reputation was built far more upon word of mouth (wrestling magazines) than it was based upon 4 million people across the country watching every week.

Furthermore, don't underestimate the value of Ric Flair as a heel in the territory system as a prime reason for his numerous title reigns. Flair's job was to take the title to various territories, and put the title on the line against that territory's top face. Flair spends a good portion of the match taking a beating, which sends the crowd into a frenzy for their hero, only for Flair to squeak out a victory, stealing the match along with the hopes of the crowd. This is important because it allowed each territory have their regional hero to look good and draw money with someone the promotion trusted, without having the title change hands. So it was definitely different back then, but the difference doesn't just help Cena, it also played into Flair's advantage.

You take the good with the bad. If John Cena does break Flair's record, it needs to be celebrated for the accomplishment it is, depending upon how much you value you place in fictional championships. If you hold Flair's record in high esteem, then you should hold Cena's record in equally as high of esteem.

I had to respond to this... First, a better human being ??? Based on what ?? Ive personally seen Flair first hand stay three hours after an event just to sign autographs and pose for pictures with fans, when he wasnt getting paid, when the event was over, when other athletes and celebrities had long left. Flair has made plenty of trips to hospitals visiting sick children (Cena does too, the anti Cena crowd never gives him credit for this), Ive read many strories about Flair's willingness to share time with fans in public, recounted by employees in restaurants, his children, even other wrestlers including Steve Austin, who praised Flair in a 2004 interview about his work with The Make A Wish Foundation, stating that Flair cancelled perosnal plans at the last second when Austin called him asked him to meet him at the hospital because the sick patient he was visiting was also a Flair fan. That's class.

As far as Flair's problems managing his money, that doesnt make him "less" of a human being than the recently divorced John Cena, it means that instead of dedicating his life to entertaining fans all over the world he should have hired a trustworthy accountant and not left his wife in charge of his earnings.

As for Flair being champ during a time that WWE was kicking the NWA's butt, where did you live Madison Square Garden ?? All through out the 80s the WWE could not outdraw the NWA and Jim Crockett Promotions in The Carolinas, Georgia, Kentucky, St Louis, and much of Florida. Plus the NWA did very well in WWE strong holds like Pittsburgh & Philadelphia, so much so that Vince McMahon started forcing arenas to sign "No Compete" clauses with WWE barring them from hosting any other pro wrestling shows or he wouldnt bring his shows to town. It was the only way to protect WWE from the NWA moving even further into their territory. I grew up in Pittsburgh, as much a WWE territory as New York since Bruno Sammartino was from here, and I can tell you NWA cards with Flair in the main event sold out in Oct 1986 (Vs Dusty Rhodes), Feb 1987 (vs Nikita Kolloff, best attendance for a pro wrestling show ever at the Civic Arena, even topped SummerSlam), and non sell outs that drew good crowds in July 1987 (over 13,000) and Sept 1987 (over 11,000). I also attended WWE shows in the early 90s with Randy Savage and Shawn Michaels in the main event that each drew under 7,000.

The only time really that WWE was "kicking the NWA's butt" was after it became WCW and Flair was the No 1 draw in pro wrestling, working for Vince McMahon in 1992.

Dave Meltzer has a very interesting article in which he reviews dozens of satistics related to attendance, revenue, etc, and ranks the top draws in wrestling every year from 1980 through to about 2008. Flair was No. 1 in 1983, 1992, & 1995, ranked 2nd (behind Hogan) in 1984-87 and 3 rd in 1988. He was 2nd in 1981 & 1982 also. He was also in the Top 10 in 1996, 1999 (height of the Attitude Era, drawing comparable to everyone in WWE except Austin & Rock), and 2006. That's in all of professional wrestling in the US. Outside of Hogan NO ONE has had that kind of longevity.

You apparently have never met the man, havent followed his career, and in fact probably know next to nothing about the industry prior to 2002. Ask Shan Michaels and Triple H what Ric Flair means to wrestling, they have both said on multiple occassions that their characters and ring style simply wouldnt exist without him, they based most of what they did on him.

As far as the comment about Flair's reputation being built through magazines and not in front of 4 million fans every week, do you have any idea how big Flair's sements on Nitro were ratings wise in the late 90s ? That the last time Nitro beat RAW in the ratings Flair was the main event (Sept 98), that with Flair prominently featured on the top of the card Nitro was still topping 5.0 ratings in early 1999 while being in direct competition with RAW. When was the last time RAW topped even a 4.5. ? Have you noticed how much the ratings declined after Flair retired in 2008, how big the numbers were for his send off ? Even long past his prime and no longer champion prominently featuring Flair did way more for RAW's ratings than anything they have today.
 

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