Of course and I agree with that as he should be but Lesnar was also a freak of nature that could move just as quick as guys way smaller than him which made him more special than the average big guy. Still don't think that someone like Punk can't be seen to stand up battle against bigger opponents though and certainly think he could do it against Cena while still being 100% believable as I explained a couple of posts back.
**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)
- Thread starter Jack-Hammer
- Start date
Of course and I agree with that as he should be but Lesnar was also a freak of nature that could move just as quick as guys way smaller than him which made him more special than the average big guy. Still don't think that someone like Punk can't be seen to stand up battle against bigger opponents though and certainly think he could do it against Cena while still being 100% believable as I explained a couple of posts back.
I think you are overlooking the forest for the trees. Brock Lesnar is just one example. It isn't JUST Brock Lesnar. I think Sly was talking about the big/muscular guys in general. This category would include a lot of guys. Think Batista, Goldberg, Hulk Hogan (80s version), Bruno Sammartino, Andre the Giant, Warrior, Big Show, Mark Henry, maybe even HHH to some extent.
John Cena isn't as tall as those guys necessarily, but he is in fantastic shape, and has demonstrated he is incredibly strong. That's part of who his wrestling persona is. Punk is a smaller guy, who relies on speed, cunning and agility to win matches, because he certainly isn't going to scare anyone with his less than amazing feats of strength.
We are a superhero society. We love big muscular action stars like Arnold Schwarzenegger, we love our comic book heroes to be disproportionately muscular, (or bosomed for the women), even the "smart" heroes are always ripped to shreds, like Batman. The skinnier comic book characters tend to either be supporting cast or the villain. The smaller guys are almost never the hero of the story. John Cena fits into that comic book hero mold, Punk does not.
John Cena, for all of the shit he gets by half of the IWC, appeals to mainstream society because of the way he looks in a way that CM Punk never could. Is that fair? I don't know...but I am not talking about fair or unfair, I am talking about what is reality, and what isn't. Before you can turn Cena heel, Sly is absolutely right...you need to have someone who is larger than life himself be the catalyst. Punk just doesn't fit the bill. In fact, I don't think there is anyone on the roster right now that could.
You didn't really respond to my arguments I made in the other post. Punk has already feuded with Cena and his body type was never an issue. Punk is one of the most over wrestlers in the business and probably gets the biggest face reactions right now so people definitely are behind him. I have a hard time believing anyone that is behind him now would not believe that he could take on Cena because of his body type alone. You really think he wouldn't have the support of the millions of fans that are behind him now? It's all how they book it anyway and Punk can definitely be made to look strong against Cena which again he already has done. Just because Cena is bigger doesn't mean Punk can't compete with him and go on to beat him and I'm sure the fans would agree as most of them are behind Punk anyway.
it's not about being able to "compete" with him. It's about who would have the ability to act as a catalyst for a Cena heel turn, by getting the entire crowd on his side. I am referring to Sly's comments about what it would take to turn Cena heel, not whether or not Punk can look good in matches against Cena. Of course he can. Even the Miz can be made to look good...that isn't what I am talking about. Punk does not have it within him to be THE GUY like Cena does, and as such, could not be the catalyst for a Cena heel turn. In order to throw Cena off of the top of face mountain, you have to have another face as big as he is to take his place...and it has nothing at all to do with actual wrestling ability.
Did you watch the Punk vs Cena feud? Punk has already done that and with Cena as a full blown heel Punk would have the entire audience on his side as he already has their full support now. How on earth would Punk not have the entire crowd on his side I mean do you think people will stop cheering him because he looks too small compared to Cena? Punk is already on Cena's level as a face and to dismiss him just because he has a smaller physique is ridiculous.
I assume you didn't watch from 2002-2005 when at this period their top guy was a heel in Triple H. It's possible not to have a period where you have a babyface as your main guy. Back then the product was much better than it is today. Plus they did alright domestically. You don't need another John Cena or Hulk Hogan for the company to survive or thrive.
You mean the time period when Raw lost half of its TV audience, they actually had a net income loss, merchandise sales were the lowest they've been since the Attitude Era, average live event attendance dropped, etc.?
Are you talking about that time period? That's not really a point in your favor, nor can you say the product was better at all back then. When you lose half your audience, you lose money from your promotion overall, and it comes when your top guy is a heel, I would think that would tell you something.
Coincidentally (or not) since John Cena entered the main event, those numbers have gone up, almost every year. Even the ratings were going up until Benoit committed his double murder suicide.
I'm sorry, but facts and history simply do not support your post.
PunkNation26
Most Charismatic Champion Ever!!!!!
I think the business would thrive if the roster was stacked from top to bottom instead of putting your all of your eggs in one overrated basket. The Attitude Era main event was stacked. Austin, Rock, Triple H, Undertaker, Kane, Chris Jericho, and Big Show were all big names who were extremely over. Now who do you have? You have Cena as a WWE God because he's destroyed everyone but Punk. Punk may be the only guy that Cena has made with his namepower unless you count Ryder, which I don't. Ryder made himself with Youtube and Twitter.
Having one dominant guy crushing everyone on the roster doesn't help the company. Having a bunch of different big names with maybe 1 or 2 being dominant who kick each other's ass every week is good for business because it keeps things fresh and you never know exactly what's going to happen.
Having one dominant guy crushing everyone on the roster doesn't help the company. Having a bunch of different big names with maybe 1 or 2 being dominant who kick each other's ass every week is good for business because it keeps things fresh and you never know exactly what's going to happen.
What's the thing that Austin, Rock, Triple H and Jericho all had in common?
They were all midcarders who, rather than accept their role, worked their asses off to get noticed.
Stone Cold Steve Austin = The Ring Master. He was a relative nobody, unnoticed by everyone who didn't already know him as Stunning Steve Austin from WCW, and even then, he was not one of their main eventers. He was nothing but a midcarder whose drive to succeed was far greater than the drive of apathy that permeates a lot of today's wrestlers.
The Rock = Rocky Miavia. Most hated Intercontinental champions ever. He got Vickie Guerrero heat before it even existed. He had that dumb ass grin, lame costume, the fans even chanted die, Rocky die. He was anything but the most electrifying man in sports entertainment. What changed? His ego didn't allow him to be mediocre. He figured out what he was good at, pitched ideas to management to change his character, and the slightly embellished version of his true personality emerged.
Triple H = Hunter Hearst Helmsley, the Connecticut Blue Blood. This guy was wrestling in pig pen matches with the Godwins. He was just a rich snob character, midcarder, who was buried after Hall and Nash took off for WCW. What did he do? He busted his ass to work his way back up. Developed the HHH character, gave him an edge.
Chris Jericho? In WCW he was a joke. He was a cruiserweight trying to pick fights with Goldberg, trying to join the 4 Horseman, etc. Jericho was never taken seriously over there. Then he gets to the WWE, and busts his ass to impress management. Next thing you know, he is the first ever unified WWE champion.
Notice a theme throughout this? Just like John Cena, they all worked their asses off in order to get that main event status. Not a single one of them was simply given it. You don't simply make a stacked main event scene, you have to build it with wrestlers who have the drive and passion to make it work. You aren't put into the main event tier, you SEIZE the main event tier and make it so they have no choice but to keep you there.
It's not about what you are given by management, it's about what you take. Always has been. Other than Cena and a few others, nobody really has tried to seriously take the main eventer mantle to themselves.
Tell that to the WWF from the 1980s. One dominant guy transformed them from a regional territory to a global empire in only a few years.
They were all midcarders who, rather than accept their role, worked their asses off to get noticed.
Stone Cold Steve Austin = The Ring Master. He was a relative nobody, unnoticed by everyone who didn't already know him as Stunning Steve Austin from WCW, and even then, he was not one of their main eventers. He was nothing but a midcarder whose drive to succeed was far greater than the drive of apathy that permeates a lot of today's wrestlers.
The Rock = Rocky Miavia. Most hated Intercontinental champions ever. He got Vickie Guerrero heat before it even existed. He had that dumb ass grin, lame costume, the fans even chanted die, Rocky die. He was anything but the most electrifying man in sports entertainment. What changed? His ego didn't allow him to be mediocre. He figured out what he was good at, pitched ideas to management to change his character, and the slightly embellished version of his true personality emerged.
Triple H = Hunter Hearst Helmsley, the Connecticut Blue Blood. This guy was wrestling in pig pen matches with the Godwins. He was just a rich snob character, midcarder, who was buried after Hall and Nash took off for WCW. What did he do? He busted his ass to work his way back up. Developed the HHH character, gave him an edge.
Chris Jericho? In WCW he was a joke. He was a cruiserweight trying to pick fights with Goldberg, trying to join the 4 Horseman, etc. Jericho was never taken seriously over there. Then he gets to the WWE, and busts his ass to impress management. Next thing you know, he is the first ever unified WWE champion.
Notice a theme throughout this? Just like John Cena, they all worked their asses off in order to get that main event status. Not a single one of them was simply given it. You don't simply make a stacked main event scene, you have to build it with wrestlers who have the drive and passion to make it work. You aren't put into the main event tier, you SEIZE the main event tier and make it so they have no choice but to keep you there.
It's not about what you are given by management, it's about what you take. Always has been. Other than Cena and a few others, nobody really has tried to seriously take the main eventer mantle to themselves.
PunkNation26 said:
Tell that to the WWF from the 1980s. One dominant guy transformed them from a regional territory to a global empire in only a few years.
I don't really understand this argument. If anything, there are more main eventers now than there were then. Sure, some of them are chicken heels, but that doesn't mean they're not good at what they do and offer the company depth. As for dominance, you still have guys like Sheamus, Randy Orton, and Mark Henry, along with Kane and Big Show still being around. John Cena is going to be prioritized over all these people because he makes more money for the company than any one of them. How many times was Steve Austin pushed down on a PPV card to give Chris Jericho a main event? Oh yeah, Jericho only got there as a chicken heel, and his main events during his Undisputed Championship run were mostly with Rock and Austin. Kane and Big Show were never true superstars during that time, either. Big Show certainly didn't challenge for the championship at three straight PPVs against another dominant monster.
PunkNation26
Most Charismatic Champion Ever!!!!!
Davi323, I get your argument, but in today's WWE, guys aren't allowed to do anything interesting to stand out. So of course you're going to get guys being apathetic. Why should you give a shit if you can't get anywhere? That was basically the premise of Punk's "shoot" promo. I mean, there is NO tag team division for guys to get over in, the mid card titles are worthless because they are never defended. Miz rarely ever defended the US Title when he had it.
Cody Rhodes hasn't defended the IC Title in what seems like forever, and now he's defending it against Booker T. Nobody actually believes Booker cares or actually wants to be IC Champion. Ziggler hasn't defended the US Title in like forever. I thought the actual premise of being Champion was to defend your title. Ryder has done everything except prostitute himself just to get a title shot. I mean come on, the booking is bogus.
Ok back to the main event discussion with Cena. Cena is booked as Superman. The closet thing he has had to a villain is Punk. Punk was the only guy other than Triple H in forever to actually take Cena to the limit and beat him. When a guy like Miz manages to beat Cena, Cena usually just laughs and mocks Miz and tells him he got lucky and that the whole world knows that Miz is basically a pussy who can't beat anyone. Basically Cena calls Miz a joke.
The sad thing is that it's true. Miz is a joke, but Cena doesn't have to bury Miz as a character. Now I know Punk has been breaking kayfabe lately and attempting to commit character murder on a few guys, Miz and Del Rio inparticular, which I honestly don't like when he does it either.
When Rock and Austin were main eventing, sure they were booked as being very strong, but they were booked more like Batman. Sure Batman always wins in the end just like Superman, but Batman shows more vulnerability. Austin would take a simple neckbreaker and you thought he was done for. Also, when Austin faced other main eventers in his class, he would sometimes lose to them cleanly. Austin lost to Triple H in a cage match in February 2001. Guess my main point is that in Austin's era, there was more parity in the main event.
Parity is good in wrestling, in my opinion. It makes things interesting, and it makes for a lot more feuds. In today's era, if two guys who aren't Cena, who Cena has already beat, are feuding, nobody takes them seriously because they can't beat Cena or don't stand a chance against him.
Cody Rhodes hasn't defended the IC Title in what seems like forever, and now he's defending it against Booker T. Nobody actually believes Booker cares or actually wants to be IC Champion. Ziggler hasn't defended the US Title in like forever. I thought the actual premise of being Champion was to defend your title. Ryder has done everything except prostitute himself just to get a title shot. I mean come on, the booking is bogus.
Ok back to the main event discussion with Cena. Cena is booked as Superman. The closet thing he has had to a villain is Punk. Punk was the only guy other than Triple H in forever to actually take Cena to the limit and beat him. When a guy like Miz manages to beat Cena, Cena usually just laughs and mocks Miz and tells him he got lucky and that the whole world knows that Miz is basically a pussy who can't beat anyone. Basically Cena calls Miz a joke.
The sad thing is that it's true. Miz is a joke, but Cena doesn't have to bury Miz as a character. Now I know Punk has been breaking kayfabe lately and attempting to commit character murder on a few guys, Miz and Del Rio inparticular, which I honestly don't like when he does it either.
When Rock and Austin were main eventing, sure they were booked as being very strong, but they were booked more like Batman. Sure Batman always wins in the end just like Superman, but Batman shows more vulnerability. Austin would take a simple neckbreaker and you thought he was done for. Also, when Austin faced other main eventers in his class, he would sometimes lose to them cleanly. Austin lost to Triple H in a cage match in February 2001. Guess my main point is that in Austin's era, there was more parity in the main event.
Parity is good in wrestling, in my opinion. It makes things interesting, and it makes for a lot more feuds. In today's era, if two guys who aren't Cena, who Cena has already beat, are feuding, nobody takes them seriously because they can't beat Cena or don't stand a chance against him.
Umm, you just defeated your own argument, right there. You do realize that Punk's "shoot" promo was because he was allowed to do something interesting to stand out? Prior to that non-shoot shoot, Punk proved he was capable of delivering. They gave him his chance with that promo, and he nailed it. Punk earned his chance.
You have to prove you are capable of it first. CM Punk gets to do Attitude era type shoot promos that aren't really shoots because the guy is quick witted. Chris Jericho pretty much gets to give unscripted promos too, because like Punk, he can do an unscripted promo and have it fit perfectly with his character. You want to do ad libbed promos like Stone Cold and the Rock used to do? Prove that you are capable of doing them. Some guys can, some guys can't.
The bottom line is, too many wrestlers expect main event slots to be given to them, rather than going out and earning those spots. John Cena earned his spot, and works his tail off to stay there.
Did you just say Punk's promo wasn't really a shoot? Shoot means real and that promo was about as real as it gets. You could see how much emotion and anger he had and that's what made it so amazing more than just the content by itself.
Yes, I did. It was what is known as a worked shoot. Think about it. Really hard. Do you REALLY think that Punk would have been allowed to completely rip the WWE product on live TV without getting approval from Vince first, as part of an overall plan? Stop being so naive. It wasn't scripted, but Punk sure as hell went over the bullet points of what he wanted to cover before they ever let him do it. It was emotional and brilliant...but he also got permission to do it first.
PunkNation26
Most Charismatic Champion Ever!!!!!
CM Punk was a top heel in the WWE. Heck, he was WWE's best heel. He was fed up with WWE's shit and was getting ready to walk. He was obviously a valuable commodity as WWE negotiated to keep him. One of the perks was he would be allowed to vent on WWE with a shoot. He was allowed to do it, but it was still a shoot. It would let Punk let off steam while at the same time giving WWE some much needed buzz and interest in the product.
WWE obviously doesn't seem to let talent develop today. Like I said before, there is NO tag team division for guys to get over in, and the mid card titles aren't used right either. They have one guy holding them without defending them. If they don't defend them, then the titles are worthless and aren't helping them. There's also another post on this site that says that Cena, Taker, HHH, and Orton are bigger than the WWE and World Titles which is also not good for the company. The WWE or World Champion shouldn't be having his match at 9:00 PM while Cena, Taker, HHH, or Orton are closing the show at 10:00 PM.
At the very least, have the Champion involved in the Cena, Taker, HHH, or Orton match.I know this isn't really true for HHH right now, but it definitly is for Cena. Like I've also said before, Cena closing the show didn't help ratings one bit last Monday. So the WWE's current ratings aren't Punk's fault.
WWE obviously doesn't seem to let talent develop today. Like I said before, there is NO tag team division for guys to get over in, and the mid card titles aren't used right either. They have one guy holding them without defending them. If they don't defend them, then the titles are worthless and aren't helping them. There's also another post on this site that says that Cena, Taker, HHH, and Orton are bigger than the WWE and World Titles which is also not good for the company. The WWE or World Champion shouldn't be having his match at 9:00 PM while Cena, Taker, HHH, or Orton are closing the show at 10:00 PM.
At the very least, have the Champion involved in the Cena, Taker, HHH, or Orton match.I know this isn't really true for HHH right now, but it definitly is for Cena. Like I've also said before, Cena closing the show didn't help ratings one bit last Monday. So the WWE's current ratings aren't Punk's fault.
This is unreal. The midcard titles are thriving right now! Ziggler and Ryder have had one of the hotter programs of the last little while and Rhodes has brought prestige back to the Intercontinental Title -- you cannot deny that. Anybody who gets a program with Randy Orton, while holding the Intercontinental Championship, is going to make himself and that title look like gold.
It doesn't matter who closes the show, all that matters is that the biggest attraction or the biggest program closes the show. Most of the time, you're looking at the WWE Title or the World Heavyweight Championship closing the show as it is the center of the biggest program, but if it's not, there's nothing wrong with that. Remember when Hogan and Rock went on BEFORE the Undisputed WWF Title match at WrestleMania X8? What happened? The crowd was completely deflated and Triple H and Chris Jericho have both said they shouldn't have gone on last. That's the reason that Undertaker vs Shawn Michaels went on last at WrestleMania 26. The biggest attraction, regardless of the title, should go on last. The title will be prestigious no matter what, especially when those same guys who are main eventing without it, eventually have a reign with it.
One point though: Who'll go on last at TLC? The WWE Title match, no doubt. Cena doesn't even have a match yet. It's not always the case, it depends on what the biggest draw at the time will be -- it's not Cena or 'Taker's fault that they are where they are in their careers, is it? We put them there.
The champion doesn't need to be thrust into a program where he doesn't fit, it's as simple as that. It's also foolish to say that it's ALL CM Punk maintaining the ratings, plus, they've been VERY low over the past few weeks. Cena does just as much with the ratings as anybody, if not more.
PunkNation26
Most Charismatic Champion Ever!!!!!
I never said that Punk was keeping WWE ratings alive. I also didn't blame Cena and Taker for main eventing over the title. It's obviously not their fault. I also agree with you that Taker vs HBK deserved to main event Mania. I'm talking about building up the company and making new stars though. It doesn't help things when Punk is WWE Champion and he's not even main eventing a FREE RAW show.
Cena vs the Rock should definitly main event Wrestlemania regardless of whether or not Punk is WWE Champion, that I'll agree with. But, I don't agree with Cena vs Mark Henry main eventing Raw over CM Punk's match with Orton as his partner against Miz and Del Rio. I realize that the ending had Kane come out and attack Cena, but Cena has been ending the shows for what seems like all of Punk's current WWE Title reign, except for the Piper's Pit show.
I could be wrong however, as I said it "seems" as the last few weeks seem like a blur to me for some reason. When it comes to the US Title, it's only been relevant recently because of Zack Ryder basically having to prostitute himself just to get a SHOT at the title despite beating Ziggler in non title matches on multiple occasions. Come on, who was the last guy that Ziggler defended the title against. His appearances for a pretty good while consist of him showing up and jobbing to guys like Mason Ryan and Randy Orton. Sure he looks great in the matches, but the title isn't even involved.
Just carrying a belt around doesn't make the title relevant. Look at Cody Rhodes now. He won the Intercontinental Title and started to bring relevance back to it, but then he suddenly wasn't defending the title. Nobody believes that Booker T wants to be Intercontinental Champion, and nobody believes that he will beat Cody for the title either. The mid card titles should be defended on EVERY ppv. I think a big part of the problem is that guys can work on both Raw and Smackdown. If they are going to have 2 different mid card titles, then they need a seperate roster, and need to establish midcard ranks.
Cena vs the Rock should definitly main event Wrestlemania regardless of whether or not Punk is WWE Champion, that I'll agree with. But, I don't agree with Cena vs Mark Henry main eventing Raw over CM Punk's match with Orton as his partner against Miz and Del Rio. I realize that the ending had Kane come out and attack Cena, but Cena has been ending the shows for what seems like all of Punk's current WWE Title reign, except for the Piper's Pit show.
I could be wrong however, as I said it "seems" as the last few weeks seem like a blur to me for some reason. When it comes to the US Title, it's only been relevant recently because of Zack Ryder basically having to prostitute himself just to get a SHOT at the title despite beating Ziggler in non title matches on multiple occasions. Come on, who was the last guy that Ziggler defended the title against. His appearances for a pretty good while consist of him showing up and jobbing to guys like Mason Ryan and Randy Orton. Sure he looks great in the matches, but the title isn't even involved.
Just carrying a belt around doesn't make the title relevant. Look at Cody Rhodes now. He won the Intercontinental Title and started to bring relevance back to it, but then he suddenly wasn't defending the title. Nobody believes that Booker T wants to be Intercontinental Champion, and nobody believes that he will beat Cody for the title either. The mid card titles should be defended on EVERY ppv. I think a big part of the problem is that guys can work on both Raw and Smackdown. If they are going to have 2 different mid card titles, then they need a seperate roster, and need to establish midcard ranks.
Wow you are stupid. Obviously Vince let Punk do it I never disputed that. I said a shoot means real and that was about as real as you can get from a promo. I doubt Punk told them exactly what he was going to say and a lot of that came directly from his heart so yeah it was real, that's why it was so good.
More main eventers than there were? That is a joke. You think people like Swagger and Great Khali would have ever got near a title back then. No way in hell. Mark Henry never main evented back then because he was nowhere near main event level talent, now there is a lot more room at the top and he was given his chance finally. Christian got his title shot now even though he has been talented his whole career, just there are more spots available now. You also contradict yourself by saying Big Show never main evented 3 ppvs in a row back then, that;s because there was a lot more talent in front of him. WWE is in serious need of more top guys as some of their so called main eventers are nowhere near over enough such as Del Rio. Back then there was a lot of variety at the top and anyone could win it on any day and they were all over with the crowd.
I was surfing youtube and I came across the Relive the Rock set of videos. One of the videos was about the Rock joining the Nation of Domination and becoming heel. The Rock claimed that this was because the fans were chanting "Die Rocky Die" and didn't respect him. That got me thinking about Cena's eventual heel turn. We all know it's coming, the question when. My guess is at the Royal Rumble. This would give Cena a few months to build the feud before Mania. Anyways, isn't it ironic how Cena is going down the same path as the Rock, only 14 years later? I know a lot of wrestlers go down this path, saying their not respected by the fans, I just think it is interesting how similar their paths are.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKRWRXcyQH0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKRWRXcyQH0
JohnJohnson
aka JuanJuanson
So he's going down the same path as the Rock because he gets booed by many as a face? We have yet to see Cena turn heel, but everyone here talks about it as if it's a guaranteed thing. Also, the Rock joining the NoD was to give him a needed push. He had the skills and the charisma to be a big star. Cena is already there. So I don't see it as the same path, especially considering that Cena is already at the end of the path. Heel turns happen all the time.
Yeah, I'd say there are just as many differences as there are similarities. Rock turned heel because his face run was a failure. The fans never liked him as a face, got sick of the WWF trying to force them to like him, and starting booing him unanimously - forcing a heel turn. Cena has been one of the most successful faces of all time for several years now, and gets booed by a vocal 25-30% of the crowds that think they're cool and think they know more than they do because they read about wrestling on the internet. I don't know where people got the idea that a Cena heel turn is imminent, but they've been saying it for years now and it hasn't happened yet, so I don't know why they think it's going to happen now. Because of the Piper's Pit segment? He might "turn heel" on those fans booing him like Piper wanted him to, but I doubt we're going to see him abandon the fans that have been loyal to him and cheered him this whole time(popularly referred to as the women and children, despite the fact that many grown men - including most professional wrestlers - are also in this group) anytime soon. I digress.
If I had to make a comparison, I would say Cena is going down the same path as Hulk Hogan, not The Rock. Hulk Hogan was getting stale as hell with WWF, so much so that they let him leave. He goes to the WCW, where he has the exact same song and dance routine as he had for a decade in the WWF, and it's still stale as ever and the fans get sick of it real quick. After a hiatus, he turns heel by joining the nWo. The long run at the top as a face, lack of character change and arguably staleness certainly resembles John Cena's current situation.
And while we're on the topic, IMO, that's the kind of epicness that Cena's heel turn should have. It should be a moment that changes professional wrestling. It should be something that's talked about for years to come. Not some sidenote on the road to WrestleMania.
If I were to use the current fued with The Rock as a way to turn Cena heel(which I wouldn't do, but if I did), wait until after WrestleMania. Have them have their big match, Rock gets the win but learns to respect Cena...a redux of Rock/Hogan, where they shake hands and celebrate together afterwards. Have Cena start showing more edge, stop being so PG, basically start acting more like The Rock. Have The Rock suypporting him the whole time. This would probably get the smarks to start cheering him again. And just when he has the full support of everybody in the crowd, he throws Rock off the stage or through a glass window or, hell, off the Titantron. Then Cena wins the rematch and sends Rock back to Hollywood for good(perhaps as a stipulation in the match).
The rematch can take place at WrestleMania 29, if they can draw it out that long, or maybe SummerSlam if it happens faster. If it's the latter, I'd like to see heel Cena take on and beat Undertaker at WrestleMania 29 to fully cement his heel status by ending The Streak. As has been said so many times, Cena's the only one in the WWE today that deserves to end it. Everybody else is either too old to benefit from it or too green to deserve it.
I don't think I'd turn him heel, but if I did it and included The Rock, that's how I'd do it.
JohnnieGoodtimes
Dark Match Jobber
No, IF Cena were to turn heel, it would be more like Hogan's heel turn. Cena is over, whether we in the IWC want to admit it or not. Rock was not when he joined NoD,
The WWE is not going to book Cena's heel turn like the NoD. This is going to be more like the nWo. But, I don't think his heel turn his turn is going to be until a few years until the future.
The WWE is not going to book Cena's heel turn like the NoD. This is going to be more like the nWo. But, I don't think his heel turn his turn is going to be until a few years until the future.
1TheGreatOne1
Dark Match Winner
WWE needs to focus more on building more talent.
Cena has gotten EVERYTHING from his face run. What more can he possibly do?
Cena has won 19 championships in total, including 12 World Titles (having won the WWE Championship a record 10 times and the World Heavyweight Championship twice). In addition, Cena has also won the WWE United States Championship three times, and is a four-time Tag Team Champion, having held the World Tag Team Championship twice (once each with Shawn Michaels and Batista),and the WWE Tag Team Championship twice (once each with David Otunga and The Miz).
Cena also won the 2008 Royal Rumble match, and is a two-time Superstar of the Year Slammy Award winner (2009 and 2010). He also has the fourth highest number of combined days as WWE Champion behind Bob Backlund, Hulk Hogan & Bruno Sammartino.
Been a face for 9 years & has been in every main event since 2004? 2005?..anyways it's been a looooong time.
He is stale & you people cannot deny it.
WWE try their hardest to get him over.. but imo they can make him sucks up to the older crowds, suck up to guys like Punk and Ryder (or any other IWC favorite), have legends come back and basically say "cheer this guy" but it's not gonna work.
And now they are selling 'Cena sucks' shirts.. what's that accomplishing? other than lining Vince McMahons wallet. Pretty embarrassing for the Face of the company to be despised so much, they acknowledge it now yeah.. but too little too late.
Cena has gotten EVERYTHING from his face run. What more can he possibly do?
Cena has won 19 championships in total, including 12 World Titles (having won the WWE Championship a record 10 times and the World Heavyweight Championship twice). In addition, Cena has also won the WWE United States Championship three times, and is a four-time Tag Team Champion, having held the World Tag Team Championship twice (once each with Shawn Michaels and Batista),and the WWE Tag Team Championship twice (once each with David Otunga and The Miz).
Cena also won the 2008 Royal Rumble match, and is a two-time Superstar of the Year Slammy Award winner (2009 and 2010). He also has the fourth highest number of combined days as WWE Champion behind Bob Backlund, Hulk Hogan & Bruno Sammartino.
Been a face for 9 years & has been in every main event since 2004? 2005?..anyways it's been a looooong time.
He is stale & you people cannot deny it.
WWE try their hardest to get him over.. but imo they can make him sucks up to the older crowds, suck up to guys like Punk and Ryder (or any other IWC favorite), have legends come back and basically say "cheer this guy" but it's not gonna work.
And now they are selling 'Cena sucks' shirts.. what's that accomplishing? other than lining Vince McMahons wallet. Pretty embarrassing for the Face of the company to be despised so much, they acknowledge it now yeah.. but too little too late.
Best in the World 79
2 fingers round. 3 fingers down.
Why in the hell do people say cena gets boo'd cause it's the cool thing to do? Or people think they're cool casue they boo him?
That is not the case.
Cena is boo'd for his character that doesn't entertain most males who watched wwe prior to the year 2002ish...if you picked up around then you grew in wrestling with cena and learned to love him and probably think that "hbk was never wwe champion" like so cena fan once stated
Cena is boo'd because wrestlemania didn't want to see john cena beat hhh, they didn't want to see him beat hbk, hell they didn't even want to see him beat a heel batista(if a heel batista tells you anything!!!)
Just realize, the fans booing him, do it because he is boring. His promos are all the same. His matches are all the same. His storylines suck if there even is any. His attire is fucking rebok pumps and jorts and 62 sweatbands. and he puts catchy prashes on shirts. lame character. stale. plus he completely made a mockery of the wwe title in my personal opinion.
But to the cool thing, you think we're trying to be cool don't you? I bet it hurts your vagina when you hear somebody say cena sucks. I'm an undertaker fan. I don't whine and try to back him when someone says he sucks. i deal with it because people have opinions. i have my opinion about cena. some agree. some don't. the "fun" of it is people who get mad, and bitch that his purple shirts are awesome, and the little kids at live events who cry when people chant cena sucks. that's the cool part. provoking emotion. he is a draw no matter what. you love to cheer. we love to hate. that's money. therefore, his boring ass doesn't need the belt or be chasing it. let him come to out to high pitched cheers and the echoing bass of cena sucks. i love it. catch the wrestling world on fire. turn him heel. don't be afraid. that'll divide the audience even more. it'd be great to see young kids root for a heel. it'd change the perception forever imo. it's wrestling so it's going to happen sometime. i just hope they do it right.
That is not the case.
Cena is boo'd for his character that doesn't entertain most males who watched wwe prior to the year 2002ish...if you picked up around then you grew in wrestling with cena and learned to love him and probably think that "hbk was never wwe champion" like so cena fan once stated
Cena is boo'd because wrestlemania didn't want to see john cena beat hhh, they didn't want to see him beat hbk, hell they didn't even want to see him beat a heel batista(if a heel batista tells you anything!!!)
Just realize, the fans booing him, do it because he is boring. His promos are all the same. His matches are all the same. His storylines suck if there even is any. His attire is fucking rebok pumps and jorts and 62 sweatbands. and he puts catchy prashes on shirts. lame character. stale. plus he completely made a mockery of the wwe title in my personal opinion.
But to the cool thing, you think we're trying to be cool don't you? I bet it hurts your vagina when you hear somebody say cena sucks. I'm an undertaker fan. I don't whine and try to back him when someone says he sucks. i deal with it because people have opinions. i have my opinion about cena. some agree. some don't. the "fun" of it is people who get mad, and bitch that his purple shirts are awesome, and the little kids at live events who cry when people chant cena sucks. that's the cool part. provoking emotion. he is a draw no matter what. you love to cheer. we love to hate. that's money. therefore, his boring ass doesn't need the belt or be chasing it. let him come to out to high pitched cheers and the echoing bass of cena sucks. i love it. catch the wrestling world on fire. turn him heel. don't be afraid. that'll divide the audience even more. it'd be great to see young kids root for a heel. it'd change the perception forever imo. it's wrestling so it's going to happen sometime. i just hope they do it right.
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