**MERGED** John Cena & The Rock: Match fallout, etc.*KEEP IT ALL IN HERE!*

[The Crock]

You sound incredibly stupid. It isn't shoving down your throat when his catchphrases are chanted amongst a good percentage of the audience. It isn't shoved down your throat when the crowd chants whatever the fuck The Rock wants them to chant. Part of being a good mic worker is getting the crowd to react to you - positively or negatively. The Rock does that and has done that since day one. Not one member on these boards can come up with a logical argument for The Rock sucking tonight because he didn't. He connected with the fans just as good, if not better than he ever has before. There isn't a single wrestler that can hold the audience in the palm of their hands like that. If you ask me, this generation can take a few notes on how to deliver a damn promo like him.

The promo itself was not very good. He has great crowd control, but any legend on The Rock's level, feuding with someone like John Cena, can get the crowd to chant whatever the hell he wants. Rock spent more time focusing on getting crowd chants going, than getting anything going against Cena. Look, I didn't hate the promo, but you're definitely overestimating how good it was. A good promo has nothing to do with the crowd chanting, at fucking all. If it did, then we'd consider Goldberg and Ultimate Warrior legends on the mic. I'm all for crowd involvement, hell, I probably would have chanted along with Rocky in that atmosphere, but that promo wasn't great. Remember the promo when Edge first got the crowd to chant "you suck" at Kurt Angle? No, probably not. Same thing with Rocky here; you won't remember that promo down the line. It was a basic run-of-the-mill promo.

That being said, I don't mind what they went out and did last night. They clearly didn't want to go out and give the crowd everything. They want to turn up the intensity, week by week. I'm sure that we'll see some great promos between Rock and Cena in the coming weeks, but this isn't one of the ones we'll remember. The only part of the promo I can say I truly thought was good, was when Cena came out. That's when I felt intensity, that's when I felt excitement, not when Rock came out and got the crowd to chant "lady parts." The majority of fans are disappointed with this promo because their expectations were so high, because they expected Rocky to bring it and really go after Cena. Instead, they got something completely different than that. Again, I didn't mind it, but I definitely disagree with just about everything you said in your post.

Now, I agree that Rock is a great mic man, but he's been thoroughly outclassed by Cena during their feud. If anybody needs to take notes (or more notes on his other wrist), it's Rocky. I'm sure he'll be back and he'll bring some substance on the mic, but last night isn't the kind of promo Rock would like to hang his hat on, as an example others need to follow.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

You do know The Rock was seen looking at his notes dont you? He also wiped them off as he did his pose on the turnbuckle. If this IS a work its very good one with extra attention to detail.

I say this wasn't a work. The Rock looked so fucked off with Cena pulling that stunt. Wrestling has changed, 4th walls, kayfabe, all being broken. I dont justify it, I like it old skool but its happening way to often. Look at the fucking t-shirts WWE have just released.

Like I said. There's a 1% chance in my mind that wasn't a work, and I personally LOVE that they were able to put even that much doubt in my mind.

The extra attention to detail? Why wouldn't there be? It's always the little details that make or break anything, and that is something both Rock and Cena are aware of.

Bottom line, regardless of the whole 'reality' era the WWE seems to be shifting to... is that as long as Vince McMahon is alive there will always be one constant on WWE TV. If it's on the air, it was planned.

Actually two constants. If it gets on the air and isn't planned, you don't want to be the guy that got one past Vinny Mac.

Fuck it though. That segment was compelling to me, and I enjoyed it so much I actually watched the replay today (for the first time in a while) just to see it again. What they're doing is working for me right now, and a couple of weeks ago, I was one of the guys who hated the story they were going with for their angle.

 

[grantedisme]

The cell phone comment wasn't breaking any '4th walls' though was it? How do we know it is even true!? Yes, I like the realism route but the classless comment I made was because Cena just had to bring it up. While I dont think having notes on the arm is a 'big issue', to try and show The Rock up like that is classless. It was a cheap point scorer.

Cenas manhood and all that is in jest - it is for comedy and nothing else. Yeh, its schoolboy humor but its nothing personal. Cena takes it in good spirits and the Rock has had the same done to him in the past (watch his 2003 promos with Hurricane).

I dont think it was double standards from me at all.

I have very little doubt in my mind that Cena and The Rock have each other's numbers and have had at least one conversation in the past outside of the arena. The Rock is the one who brought realism to the promo to show up Cena, and Cena just countered back with a little realism of his own. The whole idea of their promo is to show each other up, and Cena did a better job of it while going off script, something that McMahon tolerates some of his bigger stars doing (and something that The Rock's fans usually praise him for doing so well).

If you honestly think that making fun of Cena's genitalia for a year and doing everything in his power to make it trend worldwide on Twitter or Facebook is classier than Cena mentioning that Rocky wrote down notes on his wrist, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on a fundamental level.

Personally, I don't have a problem with either, since they're both done to further the feud, but if I had to say which one is less classy, I'd have to pick The Rock.

So I'll admit that I may be wrong about you being biased in favor of The Rock. Rather, we just disagree with what is considered "classy".

 

[MrMojoRisin]

The promo itself was not very good. He has great crowd control, but any legend on The Rock's level, feuding with someone like John Cena, can get the crowd to chant whatever the hell he wants. Rock spent more time focusing on getting crowd chants going, than getting anything going against Cena. Look, I didn't hate the promo, but you're definitely overestimating how good it was. A good promo has nothing to do with the crowd chanting, at fucking all. If it did, then we'd consider Goldberg and Ultimate Warrior legends on the mic. I'm all for crowd involvement, hell, I probably would have chanted along with Rocky in that atmosphere, but that promo wasn't great. Remember the promo when Edge first got the crowd to chant "you suck" at Kurt Angle? No, probably not. Same thing with Rocky here; you won't remember that promo down the line. It was a basic run-of-the-mill promo.

That being said, I don't mind what they went out and did last night. They clearly didn't want to go out and give the crowd everything. They want to turn up the intensity, week by week. I'm sure that we'll see some great promos between Rock and Cena in the coming weeks, but this isn't one of the ones we'll remember. The only part of the promo I can say I truly thought was good, was when Cena came out. That's when I felt intensity, that's when I felt excitement, not when Rock came out and got the crowd to chant "lady parts." The majority of fans are disappointed with this promo because their expectations were so high, because they expected Rocky to bring it and really go after Cena. Instead, they got something completely different than that. Again, I didn't mind it, but I definitely disagree with just about everything you said in your post.

Now, I agree that Rock is a great mic man, but he's been thoroughly outclassed by Cena during their feud. If anybody needs to take notes (or more notes on his other wrist), it's Rocky. I'm sure he'll be back and he'll bring some substance on the mic, but last night isn't the kind of promo Rock would like to hang his hat on, as an example others need to follow.

I think the point of last nights promo's are being missed.

It wasn't the Rock's job last night to cut a killer promo that would have outclassed Cena. It was Rock's job to help Cena get back up to his level in the eyes of the fans.

Let's face it. So far in the year long build to this match, the Rock's pretty much owned Cena every time he's come out. That doesn't work because these guys need to be equals heading into Wrestlemania... and since they decided to go for the baby vs baby match, Cena NEEDS fan support. He absolutely needed to win a battle against the Rock, and that's what last night was about.

Go back and watch Rock's promo again. Notice how much he's playing around? Notice how he's really not taking Cena seriously at all when he's just out there by himself? It's because up till now, Cena hasn't given him a reason to. In the story, of course the Rock's just going to be out there having fun, because there's no reason for him not to. Queue Cena coming out, owning the Rock and walking out leaving one of the greatest stick men in wrestling history unsure of what to say next. Do you think that the Rock's taking Cena lightly now? Do you think that Cena just didn't gain some of that much needed fan support with his underdog win last night?

No, the Rock didn't have an all time great promo last night that his fans will watch on Youtube again and again over the years... but he did his job. He helped sell the match. He helped his opponent get over. He did exactly what he did for years as a wrestler, only he did it last night in a way he's never done before. He did it by allowing himself to get beat at his biggest strength.

The Rock's promo last night WAS great... because he accomplished EXACTLY what he was supposed to accomplish with it.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

I wasnt a Cena fan during the Dr. of Thugganomics gimmick. Wasnt a fan during the super Cena era. Something about him just never clicked with me.

I'll probably never be a Cena fan, but his total ownage of the Rock right now has me interested in this feud. Rock is my all time favorite wrestler, but I will admit he has done nothing to interest me in this fued. Maybe he feels he doesnt haveto because he's the Rock and his name and presence alone will sell the PPV and fill the arena. Maybe he's right, but for me personally, John Cena, as difficult as it is to believe, has me interested in this match.

I was personally bored out of my mind with Rock's promo last night. Felt it was lame as hell and also felt like he did very little to 'respond' to Cena's promo last week. Rock did respond but it didnt have anywhere near the impact that Cena's promo had. Then Cena came out and made Rock look as if he's not even on his level...and did it in 2 minutes. I hope Rock can deliver a promo at some point that'll hit as hard to Cena as these Cena promos are hitting the Rock.

 

[The Crock]

I think the point of last nights promo's are being missed.

It wasn't the Rock's job last night to cut a killer promo that would have outclassed Cena. It was Rock's job to help Cena get back up to his level in the eyes of the fans.

Let's face it. So far in the year long build to this match, the Rock's pretty much owned Cena every time he's come out. That doesn't work because these guys need to be equals heading into Wrestlemania... and since they decided to go for the baby vs baby match, Cena NEEDS fan support. He absolutely needed to win a battle against the Rock, and that's what last night was about.

Go back and watch Rock's promo again. Notice how much he's playing around? Notice how he's really not taking Cena seriously at all when he's just out there by himself? It's because up till now, Cena hasn't given him a reason to. In the story, of course the Rock's just going to be out there having fun, because there's no reason for him not to. Queue Cena coming out, owning the Rock and walking out leaving one of the greatest stick men in wrestling history unsure of what to say next. Do you think that the Rock's taking Cena lightly now? Do you think that Cena just didn't gain some of that much needed fan support with his underdog win last night?

No, the Rock didn't have an all time great promo last night that his fans will watch on Youtube again and again over the years... but he did his job. He helped sell the match. He helped his opponent get over. He did exactly what he did for years as a wrestler, only he did it last night in a way he's never done before. He did it by allowing himself to get beat at his biggest strength.

The Rock's promo last night WAS great... because he accomplished EXACTLY what he was supposed to accomplish with it.

Go read my post. I clearly said that I didn't mind the promo. I clearly said that I didn't expect all that much from it. I know what they wanted it to accomplish... and it's definitely not what you said it was. They laid down the first few barbs in a promo war that will only heat up from here. It wasn't terrible, but Rock didn't do that great of a job. Your assessment of it only makes me scratch my head, mainly because John Cena doesn't need to be brought up to The Rock's level.

Since day one in this feud, John Cena has been all over The Rock on the mic. He's a better mic man, or at least, has been during this whole feud. Rocky didn't need to go out there so that the fans would see Cena as his equal, as he's been outclassed throughout. To me, this seems like a cop-out, nothing more, nothing less. You cannot honestly think that Rocky wanted to put Cena over out there last night, I mean, hell, WHY would he?! There's no need for that. Cena's THE MAN. For the longest time, I've seen Cena as being firmly on Rocky's level. It wouldn't have taken nearly a year for me to arrive at that conclusion.

If you honestly think last night was the first time Rocky got outclassed by Cena, then I'm at a loss. Cena's been vastly superior, he's beaten Rock at his "thing" every single time. Plain and simple, Rock didn't put over Cena last night. He just didn't do that good of a job, but again, that doesn't mean I hated what they did last night. It (the segment as a whole, in the scheme of the feud) was fine... but don't try to convince me The Rock did a great job last night. If John Cena is so open to criticism, why not Rocky too? Come on, people. Rock is worshiped and looked at as a god even when he puts on a subpar performance. I just don't understand it.

 

[XXJJ]

Usually I agree that everything that you see in the WWE is a work. But I cant imagine Rock agreeing to something like this. Being exposed of having bullet points on your wrist while cutting a promo... that is something that could hurt your legacy and credibility.

That line caught Rock off guard. He looked frustrated and angry. If he was acting than that couple of minutes was better acting than anything he has done in his shitty movies.

Bottom line Rock's promo was horrible. He is finally getting exposed for how overrated he is on the mic. Most of his promos are just a bunch of silly catch phrases and high school insults.

Cena is owning him on the mic. He is killing Rock with facts and not childish insults. I dont see how any one would disagree after watching the last 2 weeks. And I'm not a Cena fan. He annoys me most of the time.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

Go read my post. I clearly said that I didn't mind the promo. I clearly said that I didn't expect all that much from it. I know what they wanted it to accomplish... and it's definitely not what you said it was. They laid down the first few barbs in a promo war that will only heat up from here. It wasn't terrible, but Rock didn't do that great of a job. Your assessment of it only makes me scratch my head, mainly because John Cena doesn't need to be brought up to The Rock's level.

Since day one in this feud, John Cena has been all over The Rock on the mic. He's a better mic man, or at least, has been during this whole feud. Rocky didn't need to go out there so that the fans would see Cena as his equal, as he's been outclassed throughout. To me, this seems like a cop-out, nothing more, nothing less. You cannot honestly think that Rocky wanted to put Cena over out there last night, I mean, hell, WHY would he?! There's no need for that. Cena's THE MAN. For the longest time, I've seen Cena as being firmly on Rocky's level. It wouldn't have taken nearly a year for me to arrive at that conclusion.

If you honestly think last night was the first time Rocky got outclassed by Cena, then I'm at a loss. Cena's been vastly superior, he's beaten Rock at his "thing" every single time. Plain and simple, Rock didn't put over Cena last night. He just didn't do that good of a job, but again, that doesn't mean I hated what they did last night. It (the segment as a whole, in the scheme of the feud) was fine... but don't try to convince me The Rock did a great job last night. If John Cena is so open to criticism, why not Rocky too? Come on, people. Rock is worshiped and looked at as a god even when he puts on a subpar performance. I just don't understand it.

By "on the Rock's level', I think he means in terms of crowd support. Cena has been 'the man' in the past but right now CM Punk is the man. That aside, Cena gets mixed to horrible crowd reactions. People dont like him...he gets booed and thats not a good thing if you're supposed to be the companies biggest baby face. So I think he is trying to say that Rock's job is to get Cena 'over' by somehow making the crowd get behind him. I have NO idea how he can pass this off as fact, lol, but I cant say he's wrong, all I can say is that I doubt its true. BUT, I have noticed that Cena mixed reaction has gone to a pure babyface reaction when he first came out last night to face Miz.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Go read my post. I clearly said that I didn't mind the promo. I clearly said that I didn't expect all that much from it. I know what they wanted it to accomplish... and it's definitely not what you said it was. They laid down the first few barbs in a promo war that will only heat up from here. It wasn't terrible, but Rock didn't do that great of a job. Your assessment of it only makes me scratch my head, mainly because John Cena doesn't need to be brought up to The Rock's level.

Since day one in this feud, John Cena has been all over The Rock on the mic. He's a better mic man, or at least, has been during this whole feud. Rocky didn't need to go out there so that the fans would see Cena as his equal, as he's been outclassed throughout. To me, this seems like a cop-out, nothing more, nothing less. You cannot honestly think that Rocky wanted to put Cena over out there last night, I mean, hell, WHY would he?! There's no need for that. Cena's THE MAN. For the longest time, I've seen Cena as being firmly on Rocky's level. It wouldn't have taken nearly a year for me to arrive at that conclusion.

If you honestly think last night was the first time Rocky got outclassed by Cena, then I'm at a loss. Cena's been vastly superior, he's beaten Rock at his "thing" every single time. Plain and simple, Rock didn't put over Cena last night. He just didn't do that good of a job, but again, that doesn't mean I hated what they did last night. It (the segment as a whole, in the scheme of the feud) was fine... but don't try to convince me The Rock did a great job last night. If John Cena is so open to criticism, why not Rocky too? Come on, people. Rock is worshiped and looked at as a god even when he puts on a subpar performance. I just don't understand it.

So Cena hasn't needed to be brought to the Rock's level, and Cena has been owning the Rock on the mic for the past year?

No offense, but I really don't think we've been watching the same show.

Cena needs fan support in this feud, since he's in it as a baby. Can you honestly tell me that before last night, there was even a chance that when Cena walks out at Wrestlemania he wasn't going to get booed like never before?

There still not even close to being there yet, but last night was a start. Just looking at the change in mood on some boards, and on social media, Cena is starting to get his own support. Will it be enough? Probably not, but if they keep going this way, then come Wrestlemania, it shouldn't be as bad for Cena as it originally looked to be.

Don't mistake the fact that it would be embarrassing to the WWE for Cena to get booed out of the building for this match, and they don't want to be embarrassed.

You seem to be getting too hung up on exactly what was said, when the truth is, that doesn't even matter, because they were just working (yeah the more I think of it, it was 100% a work).

To me, the point was as clear as it's always been in professional wrestling.

• sell the match
• put your opponent over
• leave the marks thinking it was real

Cena needed the win last night, whether you believe it or not. Credit to the Rock for allowing last nights segment to be booked so that Cena did go over him like he did, but then again that's what he's always done. He's always built people up because he's always understood that it's just good business to do so.

 

[The Crock]

By "on the Rock's level', I think he means in terms of crowd support. Cena has been 'the man' in the past but right now CM Punk is the man. That aside, Cena gets mixed to horrible crowd reactions. People dont like him...he gets booed and thats not a good thing if you're supposed to be the companies biggest baby face. So I think he is trying to say that Rock's job is to get Cena 'over' by somehow making the crowd get behind him. I have NO idea how he can pass this off as fact, lol, but I cant say he's wrong, all I can say is that I doubt its true. BUT, I have noticed that Cena mixed reaction has gone to a pure babyface reaction when he first came out last night to face Miz.

Cena's the man. Don't you for one second call CM Punk the man. Seriously. Ever. Just because he's the WWE Champion, does not mean he's the top guy. CM Punk cannot and never will reach John Cena. I love Punk, but other than the Summer he had, he's just step above an average main eventer. I rank him up there, but Cena's above him and Orton's right around there.

Cena's already over. It doesn't matter that he gets booed, he still has a large portion of the crowd that cheers for him. On most nights, he probably gets the biggest reaction -- it doesn't matter who he's facing. The only reason Rock gets the crowd to turn on him so quickly is because he's a great showman and the crowd loves listening to him talk, even if he's giving them a load of shit. Hulk Hogan got the same deal from the fans once too. Some booed, some cheered, but I don't think people questioned Hogan, did they?

Rock can't get the crowd behind Cena. There's a portion of the crowd that hates Cena, well, just because. Do you honestly think all the people calling for a heel turn would instantly become fans of his? Nope. Most people that boo Cena do it because they're impatient, because they don't like what he represents. The Rock can't change that.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

Cena's the man. Don't you for one second call CM Punk the man. Seriously. Ever. Just because he's the WWE Champion, does not mean he's the top guy. CM Punk cannot and never will reach John Cena. I love Punk, but other than the Summer he had, he's just step above an average main eventer. I rank him up there, but Cena's above him and Orton's right around there.

Cena's already over. It doesn't matter that he gets booed, he still has a large portion of the crowd that cheers for him. On most nights, he probably gets the biggest reaction -- it doesn't matter who he's facing. The only reason Rock gets the crowd to turn on him so quickly is because he's a great showman and the crowd loves listening to him talk, even if he's giving them a load of shit. Hulk Hogan got the same deal from the fans once too. Some booed, some cheered, but I don't think people questioned Hogan, did they?

Rock can't get the crowd behind Cena. There's a portion of the crowd that hates Cena, well, just because. Do you honestly think all the people calling for a heel turn would instantly become fans of his? Nope. Most people that boo Cena do it because they're impatient, because they don't like what he represents. The Rock can't change that.

I didnt say I personally think Rock can get Cena 'over' as far as more crowd support, was just trying to explain to you what Mr. Mojin meant by getting Cena on Rock's level.

Also, Cena is 'over'. He's hugely over, no doubt. But he gets booed out of buildings consistently and Im not so sure the WWE wants that. They have to deal with it...they have to work around it...they have to make the best of it...but I dont think its what they WANT.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

I have no doubt that Cena will beat the Rock come April 1. From day one I had no internal opposition as to my prediction, there is simply no reason for the Rock to go over. Obvious things out of the way, I don't think that Cena's owned Rock from day one promo wise, but rather from day 14.

At first I thought that Rock was in the midst of immolating Cena on the mic with his chants such as "Fruity pebbles". However every week since then the only thing the Rock has done has come out, call Cena a bitch through creative words and proceed to hold the crowd in his hands while doing it. Cena on the other hand did that about 2 times then proceeded to begin opting to be serious rather than redundantly go back and forth about each other's "Lady parts". His promo 2 weeks ago was just that, sure there were some funny moments but the overall tone was kick ass serious. The promo from last night was just a way to get our initial emotional investment in the feud renewed, the coming weeks will just get better and better. I know that Cena beat Rock again, the only thing somewhat serious Rock said was his claims of past WWE superstars having not been fought for. I'm sure he will expand on this in a couple of weeks so I look forward to that. This gradual progression will eventually lead to some great moments.

 

[The Crock]

So Cena hasn't needed to be brought to the Rock's level, and Cena has been owning the Rock on the mic for the past year?

No offense, but I really don't think we've been watching the same show.

Cena needs fan support in this feud, since he's in it as a baby. Can you honestly tell me that before last night, there was even a chance that when Cena walks out at Wrestlemania he wasn't going to get booed like never before?

Yes, Cena's already on Rock's level and yes, he has been owning Rock on the mic for the past year. He's brought some substance to what he's been saying. He hasn't been throwing out moronic insults to get he crowd to cheer for him. He's been telling it like it is, he's been building toward a match.

Cena's got fan support, but he's going to be booed one way or another. I promise you, The Rock will not change anything about the John Cena's crowd reaction. It might only be worse at WrestleMania, but it'll be right back to where it is here, in all likelihood.

There still not even close to being there yet, but last night was a start. Just looking at the change in mood on some boards, and on social media, Cena is starting to get his own support. Will it be enough? Probably not, but if they keep going this way, then come Wrestlemania, it shouldn't be as bad for Cena as it originally looked to be.

Cena's always had his own support. He's always had a legion of very loyal fans, myself included. I don't doubt that some people chose to speak up after the promo though, people always love to support their guy after he looks strong.

Don't mistake the fact that it would be embarrassing to the WWE for Cena to get booed out of the building for this match, and they don't want to be embarrassed.

You seem to be getting too hung up on exactly what was said, when the truth is, that doesn't even matter, because they were just working (yeah the more I think of it, it was 100% a work).

To me, the point was as clear as it's always been in professional wrestling.

• sell the match
• put your opponent over
• leave the marks thinking it was real

Cena needed the win last night, whether you believe it or not. Credit to the Rock for allowing last nights segment to be booked so that Cena did go over him like he did, but then again that's what he's always done. He's always built people up because he's always understood that it's just good business to do so.

Unbelievable. You're definitely drinking The Rock's Kool-Aid. I mean, there's no way someone's better than he is, right? The match has been sold for about a year, ever since they announced that it was going to be the main event of WrestleMania 28. The whole card is overshadowed by this match and that says a lot when you have 'Taker and Triple H in a Cell on the same card. That's been done all year, Rocky didn't need to put over Cena last night in an effort to sell the show.

Cena didn't need the win last week. As it gets closer to WrestleMania, the crowds will remain as hostile as ever. It doesn't mater if he makes The Rock look like a child. People that hate Cena will do just that, they'll hate Cena. Rock doesn't need to build Cena up as a threat to him, he doesn't need to help Cena get a crowd reaction either. You're too hung up on the face/heel aspect of this match, I think. Rock's a face, but so's Cena. Then again, it's sort of ambiguous. Any reaction is pretty much a good reaction at this point.

Look, I'm sure that the WWE don't want John Cena to be booed out of the building at WrestleMania 28, but it's in The Rock's hometown and the crowds aren't holding back. They've come to the realization that it's going to be impossible to have the crowds cheer unequivocally for Cena. Honestly, I don't think they're trying for it. They're just trying to build the story some more for the match and that promo was a building block for the story. I doubt their intent was for Rock to put Cena over, I just think they weren't trying to give us everything at once. People should stop trying to overcomplicate something as simple as Rock not putting up a great promo.

 

[Tired0FthePeople]

So Cena hasn't needed to be brought to the Rock's level, and Cena has been owning the Rock on the mic for the past year?

No offense, but I really don't think we've been watching the same show.

Cena needs fan support in this feud, since he's in it as a baby. Can you honestly tell me that before last night, there was even a chance that when Cena walks out at Wrestlemania he wasn't going to get booed like never before?

There still not even close to being there yet, but last night was a start. Just looking at the change in mood on some boards, and on social media, Cena is starting to get his own support. Will it be enough? Probably not, but if they keep going this way, then come Wrestlemania, it shouldn't be as bad for Cena as it originally looked to be.

Don't mistake the fact that it would be embarrassing to the WWE for Cena to get booed out of the building for this match, and they don't want to be embarrassed.

You seem to be getting too hung up on exactly what was said, when the truth is, that doesn't even matter, because they were just working (yeah the more I think of it, it was 100% a work).

To me, the point was as clear as it's always been in professional wrestling.

• sell the match
• put your opponent over
• leave the marks thinking it was real

Cena needed the win last night, whether you believe it or not. Credit to the Rock for allowing last nights segment to be booked so that Cena did go over him like he did, but then again that's what he's always done. He's always built people up because he's always understood that it's just good business to do so.

I agree what everything you've said here. Its obviously all a work, no more than Denzel and Ryan Reynolds in Safe House. They are working the match...putting each over over and selling Wrestlemania and this fued.

Cena does need fan support in this fued. I dont know if he'll get it, but he certainly needs it.

Last night's segment was indeed booked for Cena to come out on top. I dont think anyone questions that. We're just surprised though because Cena has never looked THIS strong on the mic and when you take into consideration that its the Rock he's working with, its just surprising. Cena never owned Orton or Edge like THIS lol. Or maybe he did and it just doesnt seem that way because neither of those guys are the Rock. Im just surprised to see Cena looking so strong right now even though I know its all a work.

 

[The Crock]

I didnt say I personally think Rock can get Cena 'over' as far as more crowd support, was just trying to explain to you what Mr. Mojin meant by getting Cena on Rock's level.

Also, Cena is 'over'. He's hugely over, no doubt. But he gets booed out of buildings consistently and Im not so sure the WWE wants that. They have to deal with it...they have to work around it...they have to make the best of it...but I dont think its what they WANT.

Best case scenario, Cena would be cheered by everybody in the crowd, but that hasn't happened in years. They've come to terms with it, in all likelihood. They realize that there's not much they can do to change it. I've seen plenty of people that hate Cena; their reasons are never much more than "Teh PG and Czena suckz, Attitudez and Rockyy FTW!" How are you going to change that mindset? I don't really think you can. Cena could go out there and do ANYTHING, some will still boo him.

I don't think the point of this feud is to put Cena over as a face, or rather, get him a better crowd reaction. That'd just be pointless, would it not? Why bother with something they cannot really change? Yeah, they can convince people that just never connected to Cena over, but the people that just hate Cena... There's nothing to do there.

 

[ae_wrestler123]

If rock wanted to own cena he could simply say cena claims he is here all the time doing a job. But the people are sick of him and boo him out of buildings. He claims he is a wrestler but fans tell him he can't wrestle. He tries to run down the rock because he is actually jealous that he can never make it in hollywood and become a real actor. He is not mad at dwayne but mad at himself. And dwayne could say that the rock doesn't have to prove anything especially to cena cuz he has done it all in the business. Everthing cena is even thinking about doing, the rock has done it and did it better.

But cleary vince just wanted dwayne to go out and get things trending, hold the crowd for 20 mins so their puppet cena can come out and look strong. It's funny people think this twitter trending thing is dwayne idea. The reason the rock is there is for his star power. And seeing vince is obsessed with trending he wants to use dwayne as much as possible.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Cena's the man. Don't you for one second call CM Punk the man. Seriously. Ever. Just because he's the WWE Champion, does not mean he's the top guy. CM Punk cannot and never will reach John Cena. I love Punk, but other than the Summer he had, he's just step above an average main eventer. I rank him up there, but Cena's above him and Orton's right around there.

Cena's already over. It doesn't matter that he gets booed, he still has a large portion of the crowd that cheers for him. On most nights, he probably gets the biggest reaction -- it doesn't matter who he's facing. The only reason Rock gets the crowd to turn on him so quickly is because he's a great showman and the crowd loves listening to him talk, even if he's giving them a load of shit. Hulk Hogan got the same deal from the fans once too. Some booed, some cheered, but I don't think people questioned Hogan, did they?

Rock can't get the crowd behind Cena. There's a portion of the crowd that hates Cena, well, just because. Do you honestly think all the people calling for a heel turn would instantly become fans of his? Nope. Most people that boo Cena do it because they're impatient, because they don't like what he represents. The Rock can't change that.

Oh gawd.

So it is what it is, so what's the point of trying to change anything?

Yes the Rock can get the crowd behind Cena, and he's already started.

Seriously, forget your own opinion of the guy, and go back through just this forum and look at opinions of Cena against the Rock before... and look at them now.

Last nights RAW did wonders for Cena in the terms of his WM match with the Rock, and yes Cena delivered last night.

But to believe that the Rock had nothing to do with that, is to believe that these two guys really do just go out to the ring with no plan but to shoot on each other.

The biggest giveaway was the bullet points on Rock's arm. He's never used them before (please, check Youtube and see if you can find any examples otherwise). Why start last night? And why would Cena know to look for them to even call out when it's something the Rock isn't known to do? Is John Cena just that observant?

No that was all done on purpose, which means that the Rock's reaction was also on purpose (so yes to the guys saying otherwise, he can act that well).

Everything that happened before Cena came out? So far, the Rock's basically been the bully of this feud, and that's all Rock was doing. He was taking Cena as lightly as any bully takes the guy he's picking on does.

Now Cena's shown up the bully. Now we get to see how the bully reacts.

You asked earlier why the Rock would allow himself to get shown up like he did? Simple. To sell the match, which is the point of ANY wrestling promo. The Rock's enough of a professional to understand that these types of things are all a part of the sell.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

I agree what everything you've said here. Its obviously all a work, no more than Denzel and Ryan Reynolds in Safe House. They are working the match...putting each over over and selling Wrestlemania and this fued.

Cena does need fan support in this fued. I dont know if he'll get it, but he certainly needs it.

Last night's segment was indeed booked for Cena to come out on top. I dont think anyone questions that. We're just surprised though because Cena has never looked THIS strong on the mic and when you take into consideration that its the Rock he's working with, its just surprising. Cena never owned Orton or Edge like THIS lol. Or maybe he did and it just doesnt seem that way because neither of those guys are the Rock. Im just surprised to see Cena looking so strong right now even though I know its all a work.

No you're right. Cena has never looked THIS strong on the mic before.

Part of that has to be attributed to his focus. He clearly is in the zone right now. But part of that also has to be attributed to who he's working with.

Sure the Rock has his detractors. There's the guys who say that he relies too much on catch phrases; on jokes; that he cares more about getting crowd reactions, ect. They do have a point too, because he does all of those things... a lot.

But the Rock is a guy who's built countless matches on the mic. He wouldn't have the life that he does today if it wasn't for his ability on the mic. He is quite simply one of the greatest ever with a microphone. This is what he does, and he does it better than anyone.

So you have a baby vs baby match headlining your biggest card of the year. You have a very serious threat of one of those babies (who just happens to be your biggest star), getting booed out of the building on your biggest card of the year. You know your show is going to have to deal with the fallout of that reaction afterwards... even if you choose to try ignoring it. What do you do?

You set it up so that your biggest star goes over the great stick man in a big way. Doing this absolutely has the potential to change perceptions for Cena, and it absolutely has the potential to put more people in Cena's corner for the match... people the WWE need him to have there.

Remember, this is a passing of the torch match. Cena may be the face of his generation, but it's a generation that has paled in comparison to previous ones... and Cena needs to come out of this match bigger than ever. The Rock has to look strong for that to happen, but it doesn't matter if Rock's legacy is tarnished a little here, because he's not the one that matters. It's all about Cena, and the Rock, the one main eventer from his era that could always be counted on to put someone over, understands that.

Like I said, I feel that last nights lackluster promo on the Rock's part was intentional, and the intention was solely to put Cena over strong. Whether it did the trick, I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

Yes, Cena's already on Rock's level and yes, he has been owning Rock on the mic for the past year. He's brought some substance to what he's been saying. He hasn't been throwing out moronic insults to get he crowd to cheer for him. He's been telling it like it is, he's been building toward a match.

Cena's got fan support, but he's going to be booed one way or another. I promise you, The Rock will not change anything about the John Cena's crowd reaction. It might only be worse at WrestleMania, but it'll be right back to where it is here, in all likelihood.



Cena's always had his own support. He's always had a legion of very loyal fans, myself included. I don't doubt that some people chose to speak up after the promo though, people always love to support their guy after he looks strong.



Unbelievable. You're definitely drinking The Rock's Kool-Aid. I mean, there's no way someone's better than he is, right? The match has been sold for about a year, ever since they announced that it was going to be the main event of WrestleMania 28. The whole card is overshadowed by this match and that says a lot when you have 'Taker and Triple H in a Cell on the same card. That's been done all year, Rocky didn't need to put over Cena last night in an effort to sell the show.

Cena didn't need the win last week. As it gets closer to WrestleMania, the crowds will remain as hostile as ever. It doesn't mater if he makes The Rock look like a child. People that hate Cena will do just that, they'll hate Cena. Rock doesn't need to build Cena up as a threat to him, he doesn't need to help Cena get a crowd reaction either. You're too hung up on the face/heel aspect of this match, I think. Rock's a face, but so's Cena. Then again, it's sort of ambiguous. Any reaction is pretty much a good reaction at this point.

Look, I'm sure that the WWE don't want John Cena to be booed out of the building at WrestleMania 28, but it's in The Rock's hometown and the crowds aren't holding back. They've come to the realization that it's going to be impossible to have the crowds cheer unequivocally for Cena. Honestly, I don't think they're trying for it. They're just trying to build the story some more for the match and that promo was a building block for the story. I doubt their intent was for Rock to put Cena over, I just think they weren't trying to give us everything at once. People should stop trying to overcomplicate something as simple as Rock not putting up a great promo.

Haha, no I'm not a kool-aid drinker. I'm just a guy that's been watching this stuff for longer than the age on your profile says you've been living.

And I'm also not some guy with an apparently defeatist "it is what it is" attitude.

Cena's reactions can be changed. It's completely assinine to suggest otherwise. Anyone's reactions can be changed with the right booking. They just haven't tried doing anything different with Cena until recently, so why shouldn't people not cheer the vanilla superman?

Last night and the week before was Cena with an edge. An edge he's only ever shown glimpses of for years.

Honestly, I've already stated my opinions on their work last night enough times that I don't need to keep repeating myself. But if I'm drinking the Rock's kool-aid, then you my friend, are definitely drinking out of Cena's cup.

 

[storeboughthero]

I have been reading people's posts as to whether they think this is a work or not. I think that the fact that it is a work lies in the fact that no "insiders" have come forward to confirm or deny it. If it were a shoot, we would have heard it by now I'm sure. There would be more than a few backstage reports saying how the Rock was pissed...Vince was pissed...etc.

 

[The Crock]

Haha, no I'm not a kool-aid drinker. I'm just a guy that's been watching this stuff for longer than the age on your profile says you've been living.

And I'm also not some guy with an apparently defeatist "it is what it is" attitude.

Cena's reactions can be changed. It's completely assinine to suggest otherwise. Anyone's reactions can be changed with the right booking. They just haven't tried doing anything different with Cena until recently, so why shouldn't people not cheer the vanilla superman?

Last night and the week before was Cena with an edge. An edge he's only ever shown glimpses of for years.

Honestly, I've already stated my opinions on their work last night enough times that I don't need to keep repeating myself. But if I'm drinking the Rock's kool-aid, then you my friend, are definitely drinking out of Cena's cup.

Forgive me, I'm on my phone, so this will be an overall statement rather than an piece by piece respose.

First off, I love that you bring up my age. I've heard that same shtick before. Don't doubt my knowledge as a result. I love wrestling and know quite a bit about it, my conclusions come from what I've seen. That and only that is the reason I know they can't change Cena's reactions, but moreso, they definitely can't change it by 'Mania. Sure, it may tip to one spectrum, but part of the crowd will always hate Cena. This isn't a defeatist statement, it's a realist thought. Listen to how irrational some of the Cena hate is and how vocal those people are. They hate the idea of John Cena, they hate that he ushered in a new era, they hate that the business is different than it once was and they blame that on Cena. It doesn't matter why be does, because short of ushering in the next Attitude Era (which won't happen), Cena can't do a thing about that.

The WWE finally seems to have acknowledged Cena's split reaction, as they've begun directly referencing it. It's no longer that he's controversial, as try used to put it. They have to work with what they have. Let's say, hypothetically, Cena was to turn heel, finally satisfying those that say he was boring as a face; do you think they'll finally be fans of his? Do you think they'll boo because he's a good heel? Nope. They'll keep on shitcanning him like they always have.

You cannot change this part of Cena. People irrationally hate him. Hell, earlier, somebody hated on him for his work with children. I mean, really? Try as he might, The Rock can't go out and change that about Cena, either. I think the WWE realizes this, so they wouldn't try to accomplish the impossible during the build-up to what may be the biggest match of all time. I'd love it if they could, I'd love it if Cena was cheered unanimously, but it won't happen, realistically. Even so, Rock and Cena will put on one hell of a show leading up to and at WrestleMania. I expect no less than a classic from them, with stakes as high as these.

Now, I'd like to speak about the promo itself one more time. Again, I'd like to reiterate that I didn't hate it... I just thought The Rock wasn't very good. I think it's totally possible he had an off night, but I don't see why others cannot see that. The promo did the job, it restarted the feud from where they left off. Cena outdid Rock, but it seems like people immediately have to try to squash that. "The notes were a work! Blah, blah, blah! The Rock did it to put John Cena over!" These all seem like cop-outs. Now, I'll admit it's possible, but I don't see why they'd have to go to such lengths to solidify Cena's standing as an opponent for Rocky, or to try to change the crowd reaction to Cena. That would be a tad to desparate, I think.

 

[Last Outlaw]

Rock was weak yesterday. That intensity, passion was lacking and the moment where he picked up the pace never happened.

That said, I'm convinced it was a work and a desperate attempt to get Cena over. How often does the Rock talk in first person? How often does the Rock not start a promo with "Finally........"? Never.

They're doing their best to turn the fairweather fans against the Rock and it's working a bit although the crowd was still heavily on Rock's side after Cena left. Rock is supposedly off his game, requires notes to cut promos, stuttering on his lines and all that. It's believable. They've had Cena call him out for Brian writing his lines, bring up the fact he doesn't care for the business and just reach as hard as they can to get the crowd on his side. Now, they're trying to show Rock has lost his magic and is more Dwayne than the Rock meaning he isnt' the same guy any more. I also thought it was a bit weird how he was showcasing his arm in the beginning pointing to the goosebumps. It wasn't the same arm but it's something that was just odd as hell.

Pathetic attempt to get Cena over and it's pretty disappointing Rock agreed to do such a thing.

 

[realityera1987]

Everyone please read this.

Right. Enough is most definitely enough. I've been reading these forums for YONKS but never actually thought to make an account until now, because Monday night's final RAW segment needs to be addressed. I'm here to present the facts as to why that final segment was a work. Anyone who wishes to carry on thinking otherwise just reply, and I'll get back to you.

Fact#1: The Rock has never.. EEEEEVVVERRRRRRR... used notes before (in the ring at least)

I'll cut straight to the chase. Some guy earlier (I think in this thread) said he went and rewatched around 40 Rock promos and found no trace of any notes on Rock's arms or anything. Go back and watch his Feb2011 return - again, no notes present. The Rock is not someone who has EVER needed notes, and nor will he ever. He's just that damn good.


Fact#2: For WWE not to know who's going to come out on top between Cena/Rock on any given night this close to Mania is WAY TOO RISKY.

Think about it. If WWE just let them both go out there and do their thing, Rock might KILL Cena 5 weeks in a row. OTOH, Cena could kill Rock 5 weeks in a row. It's just way too random. With a feud this huge, you guys really think anything going on out there is unplanned?? Lol it's crazy to even think otherwise. WWE wants to build this feud PERFECTLY. They want their MAIN star to look good going into the match, which is all well and good, because Rock won't be around every night after Mania.

Also, Rock has literally so much star power, that he could share some of that awesomeness and make Cena look better, and not lose any credibility in the process. Win-Win for both parties.

Additionally, every single appearance Rock makes between now and Mania needs to be carefully used to the fullest extent by WWE. It's MASSIVE. Think about it. If you were Vince and you got Rock 2/5 weeks leading up to Mania, and you needed to give Cena credibility (because 2 weeks ago he had JACK SHIT), you METICULOUSLY PLAN EVERYTHING. Randomness goes out the window.


Fact#3: The ONE time we see Rock 'use' notes, Cena calls him out on it.

Coincidence? I think not Watson.


Fact#4: Rock's never been at a loss of words EVER.

The retorters here will have a good point, that Rock the character used to be addressed by his opponents ergo Rock the character used to respond. This OTOH is reality so Rock doesn't know what to say. Come on guys. Dwayne Johnson IS The Rock. He's been called out before by Cena about the same points, and he always had a comeback and a damn good reason.

This may be a good time to plug Rock's new DVD btw. In it he basically says the #1 reason why he stayed away was because he didn't want to leverage the WWE in helping his movie career - it's a world he wanted to conquer on his own. That satisfies me. I have no reason to believe Rock is lying - he has no reason to.

Think about it guys. Rock's gone toe-to-toe with Jericho before FFS and never suffered as much as Monday night with Cena. It makes no sense to think anything else than this was a planned, elaborate stunt by WWE in giving Cena some much-needed credibility going into the Mania match.


Fact#5: The moment RAW went off the air, Rock was back to his normal self.

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQct8GjDLE

All that 'nervousness, line-fluffing, knocked-off-balance-by-Cena's-awesomeness' shtick we saw was straight out the window.. literally seconds later.

There was more but it eludes me right now. This should be enough.

/EndTopic.

 

[Starchild]

Just to throw in my two cents, I think last night's promo was just kind of a reignition to this feud. We still have several weeks till Mania and I believe (and am really hoping) that the guns start to come out soon. Like any wrestling fan, just having these two in a match...a match many of us thought we'd never see, is enough selling for me. Still though, I know how big this match truly is and I want the build to match it. So far it's been kind of hit or miss.

Let's get this out of the way now. I'm a Rock fan and have been since his heyday. I'm not a Cena hater, but he's not one of my favorites either...I feel he panders to kids just a little too much. If we could see the intensity in him that we've seen in promos the last couple weeks, he'd be golden. Problem is we don't...we get it every now and then while the rest of the time over the last 7 years he hops around opponents generally around the main event picture.
I actually believe this is part of the problem...we haven't seen anything quite like this since Hogan and we know how fans beginning to grow tired of him led to Bash at the Beach '96 and one of the most iconic and shocking moments in wrestling history. Austin and the Rock were only really on top for about a 4-5 year span so we never had time to get tired of them as many fans have with Cena. For this reason and the fact that I don't see him leaving anytime soon, there is nothing the WWE can do about the crowd reactions. Unlike many...I think there will be a time to finally turn Cena heel. All the greats have done it and Cena will be no different. Will it go over well like Hogan's did? Who knows, but it's inevitable, just a matter of time. I won't deny that with where Orton and Punk are now, that time COULD BE at Wrestlemania 28.

As for the Rock, maybe it was nostalgia and not having heard him for awhile, but his initial promo when he returned last year was a classic in my eyes. Since then, he's been somewhat underwhelming. He brings up the same points mostly and can only be serious for so long it seems. I'll give him his due...he holds the crowd in his hands like no one we've ever seen, the man has an undeniable presence and charisma. He also still looks damn good in the ring based off the small sample and the fact that he didn't have a match in over 7 years prior to Survivor Series.
But his main strength seems to be lacking. I am really hoping and praying that he is as good as I think he is and it wasn't just because I was young when he was in WWE. I hope that what Cena said last night lights a fire under him and we see the Rock truly emerge. For now, all we can do is hope and watch.

Personally, I like Rock more than Cena...always have and likely always will. But I can't deny that Cena has gotten the better of him thus far on the mic. Cena's good, sometimes great on the mic, but he's not one of those that come to mind when I think of mic skills...guys like Rock, Jericho, Punk are. Cena's proved that he can be just as good. Now I think we're ready for the Rock to have that same fire and we could have one of the greatest mic battles and builds in WM history...2 actually if you include how well Punk/Jericho did together last night.

So all in all, the build has been decent so far but next week I'd like to really see it get going and for WWE to just turn both these guys loose on the mic so we can see the legendary feud that we all know this can be.

 

[Last Outlaw]

Everyone please read this.

Right. Enough is most definitely enough. I've been reading these forums for YONKS but never actually thought to make an account until now, because Monday night's final RAW segment needs to be addressed. I'm here to present the facts as to why that final segment was a work. Anyone who wishes to carry on thinking otherwise just reply, and I'll get back to you.

Fact#1: The Rock has never.. EEEEEVVVERRRRRRR... used notes before (in the ring at least)

I'll cut straight to the chase. Some guy earlier (I think in this thread) said he went and rewatched around 40 Rock promos and found no trace of any notes on Rock's arms or anything. Go back and watch his Feb2011 return - again, no notes present. The Rock is not someone who has EVER needed notes, and nor will he ever. He's just that damn good.

Fact#2: For WWE not to know who's going to come out on top between Cena/Rock on any given night this close to Mania is WAY TOO RISKY.

Think about it. If WWE just let them both go out there and do their thing, Rock might KILL Cena 5 weeks in a row. OTOH, Cena could kill Rock 5 weeks in a row. It's just way too random. With a feud this huge, you guys really think anything going on out there is unplanned?? Lol it's crazy to even think otherwise. WWE wants to build this feud PERFECTLY. They want their MAIN star to look good going into the match, which is all well and good, because Rock won't be around every night after Mania.

Also, Rock has literally so much star power, that he could share some of that awesomeness and make Cena look better.

Additionally, every single appearance Rock makes between now and Mania needs to be carefully used to the fullest extent by WWE. It's MASSIVE. Think about it. If you were Vince and you got Rock 2/5 weeks leading up to Mania, and you needed to give Cena credibility (because 2 weeks ago he had JACK SHIT), you METICULOUSLY PLAN EVERYTHING. Randomness goes out the window.

Fact#3: The ONE time we see Rock 'use' notes, Cena calls him out on it.

Coincidence? I think not Watson.

Fact#4: Rock's never been at a loss of words EVER.

The retorters here will have a good point, that Rock the character used to be addressed by his opponents ergo Rock the character used to respond. This OTOH is reality so Rock doesn't know what to say. Come on guys. Dwayne Johnson IS The Rock. He's been called out before by Cena about the same points, and he always had a comeback and a damn good reason.

This may be a good time to plug Rock's new DVD btw. In it he basically says the #1 reason why he stayed away was because he didn't want to leverage the WWE in helping his movie career - it's a world he wanted to conquer on his own. That satisfies me. I have no reason to believe Rock is lying - he has no reason to.

Think about it guys. Rock's gone toe-to-toe with Jericho before FFS and never suffered as much as Monday night with Cena. It makes no sense to think anything else than this was a planned, elaborate stunt by WWE in giving Cena some much-needed credibility going into the Mania match.

Fact#5: The moment RAW went off the air, Rock was back to his normal self.

Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQct8GjDLE

All that 'nervousness, line-fluffing, knocked-off-balance-by-Cena's-awesomeness' shtick we saw was straight out the window.. literally seconds later.

There was more but it eludes me right now. This should be enough.

/EndTopic.

Agreed on all counts. It was a work and a damn convincing one because plenty of people actually think it was true. The Rock's acting right after Cena called him out on that was commendable as well. He was legit furious, walked right into Cena's face, started stuttering as if he was really at a loss of words and then just chugged the mic back.

Damn good.