EC–err TNA LD for 07/22

[Coco]

Evan Bourne, John Morrison, the Miz, Sheamus, CM Punk, Christian (ECW helped his re-debut a ton), Jack Swagger, Kofi Kingston, and other lower card guys all disagree.

Not to mention that Lashley's time there made him legit, and Hardy and Henry were ready for mega pushes after their time there.

Legit stars that ECW made? RVD, Foley, Taz, and Raven. You'd really have to struggle to sell me on any other legit stars that came from there.

 

[klunderbunker]

So.....these guys starting a riot last week is just forgiven?

 

[Thriller Ant]

I meant in terms of what the original ECW was capable of creating in Raven, The Dudleyz, Dreamer, RVD, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, etc. etc. etc.



Can't hold a candle to the stars the original ECW created.

Most of those guys didn't become stars in ECW. They went to WWF/E or WCW and became stars there.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Not to mention that Lashley's time there made him legit, and Hardy and Henry were ready for mega pushes after their time there.

Legit stars that ECW made? RVD, Foley, Taz, and Raven. You'd really have to struggle to sell me on any other legit stars that came from there.

But I wouldn't have to sell you (I'd hope) on stars ECW helped to elevate tremendously, even if they didn't create them outright.

 

[Coco]

They didn't have to originate there – they just had to elevate there.

Austin, Benoit, Eddie, and Jericho all would have been in the exact same position they started in in WCW and WWE without ECW's influence.

 

[klunderbunker]

Not to mention that Lashley's time there made him legit, and Hardy and Henry were ready for mega pushes after their time there.

Legit stars that ECW made? RVD, Foley, Taz, and Raven. You'd really have to struggle to sell me on any other legit stars that came from there.

Not to mention that Foley got famous first in WCW and then really famous in WWF and his ECW time is more or less a footnote. Or that RVD was never made the top guy in ECW and his first world title didn't come until he was in WWE.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Austin, Benoit, Eddie, and Jericho all would have been in the exact same position they started in in WCW and WWE without ECW's influence.

Impossible to know for certain. Absolutely impossible.

 

[JJYanks121]

I meant in terms of what the original ECW was capable of creating in Raven, The Dudleyz, Dreamer, RVD, Dean Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, etc. etc. etc.



Can't hold a candle to the stars the original ECW created.

So a few world champions and the "future of the business" who holds Money in the Bank, along with the U.S. title, the IC Champ, and more, those can't hold a candle to the other list? You can't be serious? I mean, EVEN if I give you Guerrero and Mysterio who made their name in WCW, not in the 6 months they were in ECW, you still lose this argumemt. Sheamus is WWE champ, Swagger was just World Heavyweight Champ, Punk is the top heel on that brand, both midcard champs came from ECW, and the Hart Dynasty formed on ECW as well. Please tell me how these guys (all still in their prime mind you) don't hold a candle to a bunch of guys who didn't do a ton in the 2 bigger companies (sans RVD). Raven did nothing, Dreamer was a jobber, Sandman never did a thing, etc etc. Only Mysterio (when Eddie died) and Eddie himself are remote arguments and those are weak at best.

 

[Coco]

Forgot the Dudleys. What a great couple weeks those were.

Okay. Six guys ECW really did favors for.

Dreamer was never a star anywhere but ECW.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Impossible to know for certain. Absolutely impossible.

They all pretty much started at the bottom. Sorry, but not having ECW could not have put them lower on the card.

 

[klunderbunker]

Impossible to know for certain. Absolutely impossible.

Unless you have common sense that is.

Jericho was a big deal in SMW before he went to ECW.

Eddie and Benoit were stars in Japan, as was Jericho.

Austin was the US and TV Champion in WCW before he went to WCW.

They all had legit careers before they went to ECW. They would have been fine without it.

 

[Coco]

Impossible to know for certain. Absolutely impossible.

Austin would have gotten into WWE regardless; probably earlier. Jericho got into WCW on his Japan work. Benoit had a major Japan rep to work off of, and he would have gotten Eddie in with him anywhere... Who also had a Japan rep. There's no way they needed ECW to elevate them.

KB, RVD was pure ECW creation. RVD never would have gotten anywhere in the WWE without his reputation from there.

 

[klunderbunker]

Austin would have gotten into WWE regardless; probably earlier. Jericho got into WCW on his Japan work. Benoit had a major Japan rep to work off of, and he would have gotten Eddie in with him anywhere. There's no way they needed ECW to elevate them.

KB, RVD was pure ECW creation. RVD never would have gotten anywhere in the WWE without his reputation from there.

Yeah but he was never booked as the top ECW guy. He's also incredibly overrated but whatever. Also he was in WCW for awhile before he came to ECW.

 

[Vincent Michaels]

Most of those guys didn't become stars in ECW. They went to WWF/E or WCW and became stars there.

But they were first noticed while in ECW. WCW stole alot of talent from them, like the cruiserweights, Mike Awesome, and more, while The Dudleyz and Taz went to WWF/E for more money.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

I REALLY liked that match. It gets a 3 and 1/4 for me.

Same

 

[Coco]

Yeah but he was never booked as the top ECW guy.

That doesn't mean he didn't have a huge reputation in the company.

He's also incredibly overrated but whatever.

Well, we're talking about making it big, not being good, so...

Also he was in WCW for awhile before he came to ECW.

For a cup of coffee as an undercard guy. Big deal

 

[Thriller Ant]

But they were first noticed while in ECW. WCW stole alot of talent from them, like the cruiserweights, Mike Awesome, and more, while The Dudleyz and Taz went to WWF/E for more money.

Yeah, and how many people knew about the guys that WCW stole before they showed up on Nitro?

 

[klunderbunker]

That doesn't mean he didn't have a huge reputation in the company.


Well, we're talking about making it big, not being good, so...


For a cup of coffee as an undercard guy. Big deal

Oh definitely he got a job in WWE because of ECW. I just don't think he wouldn't have gotten there without ECW.

 

[Coco]

Oh definitely he got a job in WWE because of ECW. I just don't think he wouldn't have gotten there without ECW.

I don't know. He pretty much became who he was because of ECW. He got to say the F-word, point to himself in front of a loyal audience that caught on to it, and be praised for his classic work because the promotion had that cult audience. Where else would he have gotten that absurdly loyal following? And really, that following was what carried him to the top of the WWE. Where else would he have gotten that?

In Van Dam's case, I don't think he'd have done well without that element.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

LULZ ECW CREATED STARS

um, except for, to create stars people have to WATCH your fucking show

 

[Mighty NorCal]

also to say ECW made Steve Austin a star is totally absurd. Pretty sure he was Chilly Mc'fuckin'Freeze before King Of The Ring, which wouldnt have even happened if not for Triple H fucking up

 

[klunderbunker]

I don't know. He pretty much became who he was because of ECW. He got to say the F-word, point to himself in front of a loyal audience that caught on to it, and be praised for his classic work because the promotion had that cult audience. Where else would he have gotten that absurdly loyal following? And really, that following was what carried him to the top of the WWE. Where else would he have gotten that?

In Van Dam's case, I don't think he'd have done well without that element.

Probably any other indy company, which is what ECW was. Not sure on the ECW fan base getting him to the top of WWE, as for what, 4 years of him being there never got him past the midcard. I could see it either way here.

 

[Coco]

He wouldn't have been fighting Steve Austin in a PPV main event four months in without ECW, that's almost for certain in my book. And I feel he would have had that big belt a lot sooner if there weren't certain political elements stopping him from getting what was his, so the four year things is nothing that influences this discussion.

 

[klunderbunker]

He wouldn't have been fighting Steve Austin in a PPV main event four months in without ECW, that's almost for certain in my book. And I feel he would have had that big belt a lot sooner if there weren't certain political elements stopping him from getting what was his, so the four year things is nothing that influences this discussion.

Yeah it kind of is actually. He was never pushed because he never drew anything. He has never been as good as he's made out to be and is incredibly overrated. Always has been and always will be. RVD is good, but not great at all.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Breaking news: The San Francisco 49ers are calling a news conference tomorrow to announce the re-signing of Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Tom Rathman, and several other guys from their glory days of the 1980's. Apparently they went to the NFL commissioner and 49ers ownership and got a little emotional, said they missed their glory days from back when they were still relevant, and want to come back for one more season. Sure they're all old now and out of shape, but it's going to make for a compelling season nontheless.

Sounds ridiculous, right, but that's exactly what's going on here. A couple of old, out of shape has-beens who (arguably) contributed something, at least in their own minds, to the wrestling business over a decade ago, rather than ease into retirement and move into the next phase of their lives and careers, they feel compelled to come back. Absolutely pathetic if you ask me (although for about 30 seconds or so I was impressed by the passion and emotion of Dreamer).

ECW had a loyal cult following years ago. It was never relevant to the mainstream business. Its contribution to the world of wrestling is a figment of the imagination of guys like Dreamer whose only impact upon wrestling was wrestling with barbed wire and flaming tables, which would hardly be relevant to today's wrestling, and certainly not the PG world of the WWE.

Hate it if you must, but WWECW was far more successful than ECW ever was and elevated a ton of guys to the next level. And Dreamer had no trouble reaping the financial benefits of it, and would likely still be doing it today if WWE had wanted to re-sign him.

I don't know what's more pathetic, the fact that these ECW guys cannot leave the past in the past and move on, or the fact that TNA is choosing to build their product around it. Rather than creating an exciting brand of wrestling with emerging young superstars, they are pinning their hopes on Stevie Richards and Raven to beat on each other with barbed wire clubs and thumbtacks.

Or, is the pathetic part that the TNA smarks on this site will lap this up and defend it to the nth degree, like it's still 1990?