WWE RAW LD 7/25/2011 - The King is Dead, Long Live the King
- Thread starter FunKay the Inevitable
- Start date
You have to give it time. Punk has always been talented, but he's really gotten to show it in the last month. Just think if he keeps it up and sticks around where he'll be in 6 months or a year. In no way was Austin a good role model for kids or your typical face like Hogan, Hart, or Cena...yet he's arguably bigger than all of them. It didn't happen overnight with him either though
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Been that way since Boston. They outta swap Orton for Punk after this program.
If you know, Punk is staying. if not, then do it when he returns at Royal Rumble.
In all seriousness, it's not hard to believe, it's just not true. When you hear Punk's pops, they ARE clearly older male fans, at least when he's competing against Cena. No matter what side of the fence you're on, it's certainly true.
Via Armbar
Has a pretty good dick.
How do we know then that ANY mega face has ever gotten legit cheers or boos then? Maybe it was just the effect you guys are describing every time I suppose...
And no, I'm not saying Punk is a mega face ha. Referring to Cena, Hogan, Austin etc etc.
The fans are turning him just like they did with Austin, Rock, Triple H, Orton...he's quickly becoming one of the megastars in pro wrestling and rightfully so.
Punk wouldn't sell the tickets Orton does, I don't think. Punk is not a ticket seller to anyone but "against the grain males", including the IWC fans. It could be because he's not appealing to younger fans, it could be because he's a heel, but the fact of the matter is I believe Orton is going to sell more house show tickets than Punk.
What's amusing is if the WWE turns Punk face and tries to market him, those same fans will turn on him.
What's even more amusing is if the WWE did a double turn, marketed Punk and made Cena the edgy heel he once was, those same fans now cheering for Punk would cheer for Cena. Why? Because it's cool to be bad.
It's just our society.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
I thought that at the beginning of this whole thing, but that last week in Boston when he started the "rebel against Vince" thing, it felt like he was being cast as a rebel with a cause face, and could be made appealing if he brought up the drug free stuff a little more often. They generally work smaller buildings for SD anyway, it could work. Depends on how they continue to book him, or what they allow him to do in the coming weeks and months.
dream scenario mind you. He likely comes back for a one off program with SCSA for WM, then goes back to making up numbers in the upper mid card.
Patrick Bateman
I have to return some videotapes
After watching the ending of RAW over again: I need to change my opinion here. I think Punk actually get the louder pop. Part of what I thought was Cena's pop- was actually the teen/adult males booing.
It was close- but after rewatching: I think the "10%" won this one.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
Different target demographics though. The WWF actively sought that 18-35 fan, and cared little about the younger fan. The WWE now knows they already have the 18-35 fan, so they target the younger fans.
Boos are still pops.
But you would agree Cena clearly had MORE fans, would you not? I mean, I think Cena had the louder pop, but I think we would both agree more fans were on Cena's side than Punk's, would we not?
I don't think he would be able to keep the same heat with the older crowd with that type of an angle. Punk right now is running on the gas of "behind the curtain" promos. Not sure how long anyone could continue such an angle and keep that heat, especially if they soften the character for younger crowds.
The best the WWE can do with this angle is basically keep it the way it is now. Let both sides (meaning fans) battle it out for their hero, and build that way. It's more of a UFC style build for a fight than a pro wrestling one, but that's the state pro wrestling is in.
It seems pretty clear to me the WWE doesn't have the first clue how to book their programming right now. Not because they have incompetent people in charge, but because they're not sure how much influence the Internet has, and how much it will continue to have. It's going to take them a few years to master booking to the casual fan at the same time they book towards the Internet fan.
Belladonna29
Dark Match Winner
So I definitely think Raw was better this week than last week, but I'm feeling a little bit unsure about how the Punk/Cena angle is being kinda rushed.
The whole "Cena is getting fired....psyche!" angle, the idea of Punk "hijacking the title to possibly humiliate the WWE" probably isn't going to happen now that he's right back in Cena's face a week later.
And that's a shame, because there was so much more that could have been done with that idea, but I'm guessing the writers realized it wouldn't be that convincing that HHH is worried about what Punk is doing with that title when someone else have won the newly declared one on Raw.
Don't get me wrong, I was happy to see Punk back on TV like anyone else and the WWE might have sensed that the show suffered without him (storyline-wise and ratings), so they decided to bring him back quickly. His character is so hot right now, you'd look stupid not the capitalize on it, even if it contradicts things.
I just hope they've got this planned out for the long run and it's not a hotshot about to run it's course.
That being said, it was a great moment when Punk's old music hit.
I didn't like the idea of the tournament, and I knew Cena would win ( cause why have the match is Rey is meant to keep the title?).
I wasn't even watching because I rolled my eyes, turned my head, and put on headphones on throughout the main event.
Then my sister goes "WTF is that?", so of course I take off my headphones and I'm like "That's Punk's ROH music. He's there!"
Nice changeup, and it suits his persona right now.
I'm sure only a segment of the crowd knew it, but the staredown with Cena was confirmation that the heat for the angle is still there.
And while the idea of having Cena with his own version of the title seems like consolation for his playing second fiddle to Punk for the last month or so, I understand why they wanted Cena as Punk's antagonist instead of Rey, the Miz, or Del Rio.
Cena is the perfect "corporate tool goodie-goodie" foil for Punk's whole
"Anti-establishment crusader" aura. Hopefully it works out and this doesn't turn into another eventual squash triumph for Cena, but I think the WWE can probably sense that Punk's mainstream momentum is to valuable to the company be squandered.
If they were EVER going to turn Cena heel, this might be the one time to chance it.
I wouldn't count on it though.
P.S. - I really want Punk's new shirt! I don't normally like wrestling shirts cause they're so chessy, but that one is pretty cool. My sister's went to MITB and wanted to get one but didn't have any money left. I told her it's on ebay for $400 and she was like "F**K!" :lmao
The whole "Cena is getting fired....psyche!" angle, the idea of Punk "hijacking the title to possibly humiliate the WWE" probably isn't going to happen now that he's right back in Cena's face a week later.
And that's a shame, because there was so much more that could have been done with that idea, but I'm guessing the writers realized it wouldn't be that convincing that HHH is worried about what Punk is doing with that title when someone else have won the newly declared one on Raw.
Don't get me wrong, I was happy to see Punk back on TV like anyone else and the WWE might have sensed that the show suffered without him (storyline-wise and ratings), so they decided to bring him back quickly. His character is so hot right now, you'd look stupid not the capitalize on it, even if it contradicts things.
I just hope they've got this planned out for the long run and it's not a hotshot about to run it's course.
That being said, it was a great moment when Punk's old music hit.
I didn't like the idea of the tournament, and I knew Cena would win ( cause why have the match is Rey is meant to keep the title?).
I wasn't even watching because I rolled my eyes, turned my head, and put on headphones on throughout the main event.
Then my sister goes "WTF is that?", so of course I take off my headphones and I'm like "That's Punk's ROH music. He's there!"
Nice changeup, and it suits his persona right now.
I'm sure only a segment of the crowd knew it, but the staredown with Cena was confirmation that the heat for the angle is still there.
And while the idea of having Cena with his own version of the title seems like consolation for his playing second fiddle to Punk for the last month or so, I understand why they wanted Cena as Punk's antagonist instead of Rey, the Miz, or Del Rio.
Cena is the perfect "corporate tool goodie-goodie" foil for Punk's whole
"Anti-establishment crusader" aura. Hopefully it works out and this doesn't turn into another eventual squash triumph for Cena, but I think the WWE can probably sense that Punk's mainstream momentum is to valuable to the company be squandered.
If they were EVER going to turn Cena heel, this might be the one time to chance it.
I wouldn't count on it though.
P.S. - I really want Punk's new shirt! I don't normally like wrestling shirts cause they're so chessy, but that one is pretty cool. My sister's went to MITB and wanted to get one but didn't have any money left. I told her it's on ebay for $400 and she was like "F**K!" :lmao
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
I'm a huge Cena fan and I've never rooted so hard against him then I did tonight.
Punk's comeback was planned the moment he won the title.
It was a great match. Why would you root against either of them?
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
oh come now. long before it, and you know this, man
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
I have been thinking the same thing, that Im not sure how they keep things with him going after this dies down.
Personally I really enjoy the UFC style booking, with simpkly presenting characters and putting them in scenarios, and letting fans pick what they like. As long as they care, then fuck it. Thats why ive said since day one, this felt like it had Triple H's fingerprints all over it. His two biggest face turns happened because the fans simply chose for them to, picked who they liked, despite tactics used (DX, and then later The King Of Kings)
I know its not long term sustainable though, to be sure.
You're right, but the question is how long will that last. As you're well aware, wrestling is cyclical and eventually those kids are going to grow up. Seeing as it's been this way for several years now, some of them already have. Will WWE continue to target the kids, or will they adapt as those kids grow? It already seems to me that this year they've been making a slow transition into at least a middle ground.
Boos are still pops.
But you would agree Cena clearly had MORE fans, would you not? I mean, I think Cena had the louder pop, but I think we would both agree more fans were on Cena's side than Punk's, would we not?
I'd agree with that yes, but imo Punk still got a louder pop. To each his own.
All good points. It's a work in progress moving forward, but I think that we can all agree that since the debut of Nexus and especially this year WWE has been far more interesting than in recent years. Not saying they've mastered it yet, but they are slowly beginning to understand how to do it more. Time will tell if they can keep that up and put a consistently satisfying product out to most of their fans.
I wouldn't, but you might be right about the masses. But then again, they haven't exactly turned on Orton in droves yet.
Mighty NorCal
SHALL WE BEGIN?
It surely is happening though
Sure. Maybe with the ten percent of ten percenters who will NEVER be pleased. But it's not coming through on TV where it counts.
He's not the IWC darling he was a year or 2 ago. Imo, it's because he became similar to Cena with the Superman thing.
Punk is a far more interesting character, better on the mic, and better in the ring...I don't think the same thing would happen to him assuming they allowed him to continue to be himself as they've been lately. Again, the best comparison I can make is Austin which if you think about it is incredibly ironic.
Little Jerry Lawler
Sigmund Freud On Ritalin And Roids
When I saw that it was Mysterio vs. Cena, I just knew Cena was going to win. What was the point of Mysterio winning in the first place?
Yes, that's what I meant. The WWE wouldn't give Punk the title unless he was coming back quickly. I said weeks before the MITB Punk had already re-signed.
It's a good short-term solution. The problem is long term. If Punk, a heel, is a good guy in the eyes of the fans, how do you have a bad guy? You just can't really.
I think after the Cena feud, Punk will either turn full face, or they'll sharply reduce the edge from Punk's character.
It will last as long as they can make it last.
The WWE has been in a lull for several years because they drove away all of their children fans by targeting the older fans, which means that when the older Attitude Era fans left, there was no one to replace them. Since targeting the older demographic is not an automatic business boost (let's face it, the WWE got pretty lucky back in the late 90's), it would be bad business sense to alienate tomorrow's fan.
The wrestling business is just like the tobacco business. You hook them when they're young.
I've said for years the WWE has put on a great product. Even before the Nexus, the WWE had some damn good programming. The problem was too much programming, it was too watered down.
It wouldn't make good financial sense, but the way to really boost Raw ratings would be to eliminate Smackdown. Imagine having to wait a full week to find out what's going to happen.
I would never really call Orton an IWC darling either though. He had plenty of naysayers before his face turn. His face turn was more casual fan than Internet fan. Plus, his character hasn't really changed all that much, he just focuses his aggression on heels rather than faces.