WWE: No More Chair Shots To The Head

[pun2003hh]

And you know, while we are all arguing about this, I have a question. Where the hell is the main page getting this information from??? I was just on WWE.com and I see nothing in their news section, the front page section, or anywhere else about any banning on chairshots. Hell, I even checked the corporate site, and not a peep about it. This is the second time in two days that the news site has cited WWE.com with a news piece and yet it is no where to be found (just yesterday, the news site mentioned that WWE announced that the MitB ladder match was back to 8 guys and McIntyre was removed from the match, however there was never any announcement on the website about it, and from the spoilers from the Smackdown tapings, there was no indication that this took place).

We might be ripping each other apart for something that isn't even an issue.

 

[Reddannihilation]

Ask Steve Austin if he "botched" the landing of the piledriver he took from Owen.

Ummm, isn't it like common knowledge that Owen set up the piledriver incorrectly by leaving too much of Austins neck uncovered which lead to him suffering spinal shock syndrome from the botched move? Pretty sure that's a well-documented case.

Anyway, I disagree with the WWE removing chair shots from their programming, I get the business side of it what with Benoit and all. But when you compare the number of wrestlers who've had brain issues to the number who haven't the point becomes rather moot. Yes concussions are known to cause brain damage, but chair shots don't inherently cause concussions. I think if a wrestler is willing to take a chair shot then they shouldn't be stopped under some pseudo-safety guidelines. The wellness policy is a joke and this is just another example of the WWE watering down their product in favour of making more money off their stars instead of producing quality entertainment.

 

[ZeroVX]

In all honesty, I am not in favour of this decision. Despite what people will say, chairshots can and do add drama to storylines and feuds. In the old days, if someone got clocked with a chair, they'd be out for weeks, while the attacker drew heat onto themselves. That obviously doesn't happen anymore, but you get the idea. That's the whole point to beatdowns and backstage attacks. To draw heat onto the attackers and draw sympathy for the attacked.

And yes, I get that they aren't eliminating chairshots completely, just ones to the head. Even so, that can detract from future storylines. Chairshots to the head just look more devastating and painful than ones to the back or chest. It draws more heat/sympathy. And it is possible to protect yourself from a chairshot. The problem being that a lot of younger guys don't know how to, so instead of teaching them how, and taking some responsibility, Vince is simply eliminating a potential threat. Good intentions, bad plan.

Vince McMahon isn't the one going out there and wrestling every night. He's the one behind the desk, making the plans. If the wrestlers want to take a chairshot to the head, they should be allowed to. But they should also take the responsibility to protect themselves so as to not get injured. And if they don't know how to do that, they should be taught how to. If they can't do it properly, they shouldn't do it. This sort of thing applies with any spot a wrestler can come up with. Blading, going through tables, certain weapons, whatever. They're the ones doing it, they should prepare. And if Vince gets the blame, the wrestlers should take responsibility and speak up. It's their choice, and no one else's. As it should be.

 

[Deadmanwwe]

ugh this is why I watch TNA now, WWE is getting too soft for the fans of the 90's... And I find it funny after all these years they NOW start caring about the wrestlers.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I think most of the deaths in pro wrestling were caused by drug and alcohol abuse more than a chair shot to the head. Benoit probably suffered more damage from his diving headbutts then anything. I understand where Vince is coming from a business perspective but how is a chair shot less safe then a ladder match or a hell in a cell? If blood and chair shots to the head aren't allowed then sooner or later TLC and Hell in a Cell matches shouldn't be allowed either by that viewpoint.

I could care less if a match has blood or chair shots, but there does need to some variety every now and then. Obviously wrestlers don't need to put each other through glass or barbed wire to entertain the fans, but no blood or chair shots are allowed? I think more wrestlers are injured in normal matches then gimmick matches to begin with. Droz was paralyzed and Austin had neck surgery not because of a chair shot but because of a normal wrestling hold.

All I'm saying is not all matches have to have blood or weapons, but if all the matches are the same then how is that entertaining in the long run? Ultimately it is up to the wrestlers on what they want to do. A pile driver can cause just as much damage if not more than a chair shot. Also, how is it OK to have cage and ladder matches but not alright to have chair shots and blood?

Ultimately I think in this new era nothing will be allowed but basic choke holds in 10 years. It really doesn't matter what WWE does because the media will always see wrestling as dangerous and inferior because wrestlers will always be injured or overdose no matter what matches they are in. Whether it be in no holds barred matches or normal matches.

 

[Rhonda Rousey's Sports Bra]

Ummm, isn't it like common knowledge that Owen set up the piledriver incorrectly by leaving too much of Austins neck uncovered which lead to him suffering spinal shock syndrome from the botched move? Pretty sure that's a well-documented case.

Yes it is thats why the word botched is "botched" meaning they were being sarcastic.

I'm not a fan of the chair shots to the dome being outlawed but what can you do, I just hope that they don't start taking everything away that is too "dangerous", I'm guessing the next thing to go will be weapons all together or jumping of the top rope.

 

[KoC417]

Ahh this takes me back! Anyone else thinking of when WCW "banned" the Jackknife Powerbomb and were "fining" their stars (mainly Kevin Nash/The Giant) for using said move? Haha yeah while I think this move is a good one I also think this is a JOKE. So now they can't hit a guy in the head with a CHAIR..ok fine. Let me get my trusty Kendo stick out and whack you in the head. I honestly don't even know where to go with this one... In a world of scripts an entertainers/actors who DO take bumps you're going to sit there and tell me that no one will be "bucking the system" and going "against the rules" and using a chair?

Come on WWE your image is already GONE. We as fans will never forget all the fallen talent that has died under your "Protective" Eyes... All this is doing is making it so your loyal fans who enjoy a slobber knocker of a head shot (damn man I miss JR screaming THAT'S A SLOBBER KNOCKER!!!) will now start tuning into TNA where blood and gore and "violence" is allowed.

It's starting to turn into a Board game...

WWE- Ages 1-8
TNA- Ages 8-80

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

After listening to all the arguments, here's my position on the subject.

I know Vince is trying to protect his wrestlers from future damage and I respect him for that. However, chair shots are not the only cause to temporary or permanent damage for a wrestler. Look at HBK for instance. He was out four years and that wasn't from a chair shot. I don't know if he has any lingering problems because of it. People have been paralyzed or died from taking bumps in the ring.

I sort of agree with X that it's not so much a chair shot that is the problem rather than a botched one. Taker, HBK, and HHH have been hit in the head with chairs for years and it looks like they haven't suffered brain damage but maybe time will tell. There's a way to protect yourself from a shot to the head but of course that person who wants to get ahead may not protect himself because he wants the respect of his superior.

It's true that some great matches may not have been the same without them but there have been more great matches that simply didn't need them. If a wrestler wants a chair shot to the head then by all means I have no problem with it only if the parties involved know how to do it correctly.

 

[D-Man]

Oh man, I can't wait to rip into this one. First off, yes it is about choreographed violence. But you are stripping the product slowly and surely of the different acts of violence that you can simulate. I don't know how clearer I can make it to you. UNPROTECTED chairshots to the head should absolutely be banned in this business. Case in point, someone (I am really biting my head off because I can't remember who it was) a few months ago had taken an unprotected headshot and was chewed out by management because of it. That is extremely dangerous and pretty foolish. But most of the top guys have perfected the art of taking a brutal looking, yet completely safe headshot using their hands to take the impact. It is not a horror show or extreme violence, it is a staple of heel tactics that has been used for decades you f'n mark! Ok, I am sorry, that will be my only angry comment in this post.

Once the WWE "strips away" more of the violence that kills its wrestlers and that you can't seem to live without, then we'll have this argument. Otherwise, it's just a small, miniscule molehill that you guys are turning into a mountain.

You bring up the whiplash from a chairshot and that is completely ridiculous. Your daily dose of bodyslams, suplexes, powerbombs and other moves give you much more whiplash then a simulated chairshot.

Congratulations!! You can't read.

What I posted was:

Take a chair shot to the head and tell me if it tickles. Then say this again.
Do you think these guys are invincible? Honestly?!? Combine chair shots to the head with the constant whiplash of taking bumps multiple times on a daily basis. Then let's see how selfish you'd be about this.

Now, what is your argument?

What happened to Austin is one example where it wasn't the wrestler protecting himself that was the issue, but the other wrestler failing to protect his opponent. Either way, the blame falls on the wrestler, and should not lead to a complete ban of the move.

Not true. If they deem it is too dangerous of a move that isn't worth the risk, it should be banned.

It seems YOU have forgotten that this business is based on entertainment that happens in the ring. It also takes place on the mic and in backstage segments, but the basis of this business is IN THE RING. Again, I am for protecting the wrestlers, and unlike what you have labeled me, I am not some Horror show freak that loves blood and gore. But don't limit an athlete on what they can do or can't do in the ring to help me suspend disbelief. Instead of banning chairshots to the head, how about you make sure that your wrestlers are properly trained to take them as to protect themselves.

They feel the way I do... why tweak an already proven dangerous move when you could take it away with no detriment to the television program? Is it really THAT big of a deal? It's not like chairs are taken out completely. They have about 100,000 other weapons to hit each other in the head with. So chairs are gone... big deal.

 

[Joup7]

i think it's good that they are banning chair shots to the head. however........i would not be surprised in the next month to see a mega-heel do repeated chair shots to the head while Cole or Grisham scream "but chair shots to the head are banned. he's gonna get suspended for this" in order to generate even more heat. in short: good thing but i wouldn't be surprised to see this new rule used in a storyline in the next month.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Are you really having this argument with me D-Man? God damn right we should let people put drugs into their OWN body if they want to, I'm of the opinion that no body or government or authority should be able to tell you what you can or can't put into or do with your OWN body. Your body is the only fucking thing in this world that is 100% truly and always your property.



You guys are VASTLY overrating the effects of chairshots. Again, if you know how to properly deliver and sell a chairshot, these problems don't exist. Stop hiring sloppy wrestlers. How many damn chairshots have Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker taken in their career? What about Ric Flair? Hulk Hogan? Yet all of these guys are still alive and kicking, several in great shape and still on top of the business. Because they know how to deliver the damn spot. If you don't know how to deliver the spot without hurting yourself, don't do it, simple as that.



And that negates the great matches that have, how exactly? Excuse me if I want some variety in wrestling.



Bullshit, that match was centered entirely around the finish with the chair shots, those chair shots managed to convey the new page that Austin had turned and set the stage for his character and the entire WWF main event scene for the rest of the damn year. Again, excuse me for wanting variety.



I'm an adult, this "I watch for the STORIES!" bullshit hasn't been relevant to me since I was twelve years old D-Man. I love a good angle and story as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day I do not watch wrestling for the stories, I watch it for the WRESTLING. The in-ring product, which so happens to sometimes include dangerous spots like chair shots.



Variety D-Man. VARIETY. You can't have the same fucking match forever and ever and ever. You need hardcore things like chairshots and steel cages and gimmick matches to blow off feuds.



Absolutely incorrect. Brain damage is caused by BOTCHED chair shots. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Again, start teaching these wrestlers to properly deliver a chair shot and this problem goes away. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?



If you're seriously going to sit here and try to tell me that brain damage causes people to murder their family, I'm not sure what else I can say. Brain damage obviously had to do with Benoit's mental state, but you cannot connect those two things with anything other than the most circumstantial of evidence, which is what this is.

I see where you are coming from, X, but I have to respectfully disagree with you.

As I understand it, the WWE is not banning chair shots, they are banning unprotected chair shots to the head. I stand to be corrected on this, but I believe that's the case. And if so, I fully agree with the ban. Chair shots to the head are unneccessary and should be banned for all of the reasons others have already said, no need to say it again. Chair shots across the back, blocked chair shots, chair shots which just miss and hit the turnbuckle or ring post only, all achieve the same effect as a chair shot to the head. A heel snaps, picks up a chair and starts swinging. No need to hit the guy in the head with it; smack him across the back, have him miss and hit the ringpost instead, shit even use some form of stunt/fake chair, the same effect is achieved with no health problems.

Plus, if the guys are as well trained as you say, or at least should be as you say, they should also be well enough trained to sell the "violence" and "heat" of a match without a chair shot to the head.

Are you saying it's up to the wrestler himself, because that's unusually naive of you to say. If everyone else is giving and receiving chair shots to the head, you will do the same thing yourself because you know if you don't, you'll get left behind. They'll get pushed and you won't, assuming it's as important as you say, but you won't do it.

It's like steroids. It's foolish to say they should be allowed to use steroids because it's their bodies, their choice, as the health problems of steroids is so highly documented I won't even get into it here. And it's equally foolish to suggest that you wouldn't have to do steroids if you didn't want to. If all of your associates are using, and you are not, knowing the big man gets pushed more in the WWE than anyone else and always has, you're getting left behind if you don't. You're not getting pushed if you don't, you're probably getting released if you don't. Same thinking exists between using steroids and using/receiving head shots with a steel chair.

I say eliminate unprotected chair shots to the head immediately. Let the wrestlers train themselves and showcase their skills, without being forced to subject themselves to career-shortening and life threatening (potentially) behaviour.

 

[pun2003hh]

Once the WWE "strips away" more of the violence that kills its wrestlers and that you can't seem to live without, then we'll have this argument. Otherwise, it's just a small, miniscule molehill that you guys are turning into a mountain.


Congratulations!! You can't read.

What I posted was:


Now, what is your argument?



Not true. If they deem it is too dangerous of a move that isn't worth the risk, it should be banned.



They feel the way I do... why tweak and already proven move when you could take it away, with no detriment to the television program? Is it really THAT big of a deal? It's not like chairs are taken out completely. They have about 100,000 other weapons to hit each other in the head with. So chairs are gone... big deal.

You are just not getting the point, are you. The WWE has been slowly taking away moves for years. You are blind if you don't realize that ALL MOVES that you see in a wrestling ring are dangerous. From your basic bodyslam to the shooting star press, all of these moves have have the ability to injure, cripple, maim, or even kill you if not properly executed. It is like you are not hearing me, so I am going to say it slowly. Ban.... UNPROTECTED... Chair... Shots... to the.... head. I agree with this. Any wrestler that puts himself in that situation to be blatantly injured should be fined and suspended.

And I agree, stripping one move or banning one action is minuscule. But banning a large list of actions over a period of time and you have a product that is drastically different from what you started with.

I didn't comment on the chairshot with the whiplash effect because I thought I made myself clear earlier, but I will say it again. IF A WRESTLER GETS HIS HANDS UP AND PROPERLY TAKES A CHAIRSHOT TO THE HEAD, THEN GUESS WHAT, IT IS NOT GOING TO CAUSE ANY SIGNIFICANT PAIN OR DAMAGE TO THE HEAD. Now that I explained that... AGAIN ..., my argument about the whiplash effect of chairshots vs moves still stands.

I call BS on both of your points supporting banning moves. What dictates which moves are more dangerous. Injuries are unavoidable in the business and happen at any time. Triple H tore his quad by planting his foot the wrong way. And don't give me that BS about the high number of neck injuries in the business, because you are using the Austin case because he was one of the only high profile cases of a botched piledriver. Some of the other major neck injuries? Benoit - side suplex off the top rope. Shane Helms - Botched dive attempt. Kurt Angle - Olympics, back bump, etc, NEVER a piledriver. A move should never be banned, but individuals should be discouraged from using them until they have had a significant amount of training and practice. Case in point, it had been years since Brock Lesnar had done a shooting star press, he had no business attempting one at Wrestlemania 19.

And your last comment about taking a move away really pisses me off, because instead of working to make sure your wrestlers are better and safer performers, you take the easy and extremely lazy way out.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree here. You agree with the WWE's method, I don't. Nuff said.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Fuck yeah! I like my wrestlers to be brain damaged and crippled!

To all of you saying that this is bad, REALLY? Is there really any difference that is going to take place between a chair shot to the torso and a chair shot to the head? It's still going to have the desired effect. Look at when Batista destroyed John Cena with a chair a couple of weeks ago. He didn't have to fucking decapitate him with the chair, and that was still an awesome beatdown. Any chairshot to the head, protected or not, is still going to do some damage, and the risk is not necessary. Sure, Foley was beloved by wrestling fans for doing crazy shit, and the guy has a real hard time walking now. I can only imagine how bad his brains were scrambled after his I Quit match with The Rock.

Banning chair shots to the head ensures that these guys can live normal lives after they retire, so that their brains don't look like egg omelettes.

Christopher Nowinski was forced out of the business because of a concussion. He how heads a concussion research group that usually focuses on the WWE. His findings showed that Chris Benoit took many unprotected chair shots and with his signature move being a diving headbutt, his brain took so much abuse that it forced him to kill his family and take his own life. The WWE got blamed for it, and they don't want it to happen again, which is why these measures are now being put in place.

I can't believe that some of you basically are finding fault with this and want guys to basically wind up like Muhammad Ali after putting in their time FAKE FIGHTING. The WWE is trying to take measures to stop a problem that is completely avoidable. The wear and tear their bodies take is part of the business. That's fine. However, they're taking preventive measures so that people don't have to deal with concussions on top of whatever wear and tear injuries they wind up getting.

I just can't fathom how the WWE not wanting people to take a heavy metal object with a lot of force and use it on another person is a bad thing. Wait till you see how this effects the product before yelling shit like "THEY TOOK OUR CHAIRSHOTS!"

 

[D-Man]

You are just not getting the point, are you. The WWE has been slowly taking away moves for years. You are blind if you don't realize that ALL MOVES that you see in a wrestling ring are dangerous. From your basic bodyslam to the shooting star press, all of these moves have have the ability to injure, cripple, maim, or even kill you if not properly executed. It is like you are not hearing me, so I am going to say it slowly. Ban.... UNPROTECTED... Chair... Shots... to the.... head. I agree with this. Any wrestler that puts himself in that situation to be blatantly injured should be fined and suspended.

And I agree, stripping one move or banning one action is minuscule. But banning a large list of actions over a period of time and you have a product that is drastically different from what you started with.

I didn't comment on the chairshot with the whiplash effect because I thought I made myself clear earlier, but I will say it again. IF A WRESTLER GETS HIS HANDS UP AND PROPERLY TAKES A CHAIRSHOT TO THE HEAD, THEN GUESS WHAT, IT IS NOT GOING TO CAUSE ANY SIGNIFICANT PAIN OR DAMAGE TO THE HEAD. Now that I explained that... AGAIN ..., my argument about the whiplash effect of chairshots vs moves still stands.

I call BS on both of your points supporting banning moves. What dictates which moves are more dangerous. Injuries are unavoidable in the business and happen at any time. Triple H tore his quad by planting his foot the wrong way. And don't give me that BS about the high number of neck injuries in the business, because you are using the Austin case because he was one of the only high profile cases of a botched piledriver. Some of the other major neck injuries? Benoit - German suplex off the top rope. Shane Helms - Botched dive attempt. Kurt Angle - Olympics, back bump, etc, NEVER a piledriver. A move should never be banned, but individuals should be discouraged from using them until they have had a significant amount of training and practice. Case in point, it had been years since Brock Lesnar had done a shooting star press, he had no business attempting one at Wrestlemania 19.

And your last comment about taking a move away really pisses me off, because instead of working to make sure your wrestlers are better and safer performers, you take the easy and extremely lazy way out.

I think we are going to half to agree to disagree here. You agree with the WWE's method, I don't. Nuff said.

I call BS on you, too. And I CAN hear you. And I DID hear your points. But that doesn't mean you're going to convince me of anything.

Your point of view is noted. UNPROTECTED CHAIRSHOTS should be banned. Ok, are we on the same page now? Good. On with my debate.

Your argument is completely selfish. Like I said earlier, TWEAKING a dangerous move is not 100% protection from it. And apparently, this move is so serious that the WWE has decided to ban it all together. So, while you sit there and make it out to be a love tap if a wrestler puts his hands in the way, experienced management and officials in the business still feel it's too dangerous. In the battle between your inexperience and their knowledge, you're gonna lose.

I've been in the ring before. I was a wrestler. I know what it feels like to take a protected AND an unprotected chair shot. Both are just as risky to cause just as much damage. And you're ignorant to just sit there and try and make it out to be anything but.

Now, you're worried that they are "banning a large list of actions over a period of time" and that the product will change forever because of it. Where is this LARGE list? A piledriver and a version of a chair shot do not constitute a LARGE list. Not does it nullify the other 10,000 moves that a wrestler can choose from his or her moveset. JESUS CHRIST, you guys act like pro-wrestling armegeddon is upon us if they take away ONE fucking move! Like I keep saying (and you're obviously too fucking ignorant to understand): It's not as if they are taking away chair shots all together! Just (unprotected) chair shots to the head! Even if they take away ALL chair shots to the head, they can still strike their opponents' backs or other limbs. Why is it of such national importance if the head shots are taken out?? Seriously???

And the list of "accidental" injuries that you gave us is 100% on point. You're right. And like I said to Eko before, you can die from breathing in the wrong fucking air, of all things. But that doesn't mean we're going to ban breathing. But unprotected chair shots to the head are causing bleeding (currently avoided by WWE) and head trauma (which is the alleged cause for Benoit's actions). Naturally, the WWE is going to be against this.

Lastly, I pissed you off because I'm "taking the easy way out"? How's this: You're pissing me off because you're being such a heartless person with no understanding or sympathy for the men and women that break themselves trying to entertain you 300 days a year. You think that protecting someone's health in ANY way, shape, or form is "taking the easy way out"? You think that taking drastic measures when people's future health and LIVES are on the line is "taking the easy way out"? You need a psychiatrist.

So, yeah... we agree to disagree. With flying fucking colors.

 

[VencomHardcore]

I have a feeling I am going to catch some flack for my last post, so let me say this. I liken this situation to the problem in this country with kids and their parents. In my youth, when I did something wrong or out of line, it wasn't anyone's fault but my own. It wasn't because of movies, it wasn't because of violent video games or music, it wasn't because of the media, it was because of me and my stupidity at the time. And I was punished accordingly. Nowadays children are getting away with murder because instead of the parent actually parenting, they are looking to place the blame on something, anything but themselves and their child.

The same thing is happening in the wrestling industry. When someone get's hurt or suffers some sort of brain damage, or dies early of drugs, or does something along the lines of the Benoit tragedy, everyone jumps on the bandwagon and tries to blame the industry or specifically, McMahon and the WWE. That is a bunch of BS, the blame lies with the individual and the choices they made. It's the wrestler himself that chooses to do the drugs, or that chooses to do the dangerous move without having proper and thorough training on it.

It's funny about this chairshot issue and its link to concussions. I have been watching Taker, HBK, Triple H, Big Show, etc for years and years, and I can't remember hearing about any major issue stemming from any of them taking a chair shot, and I can remember them taking some particularly brutal shots over the years. Maybe because these professionals know what they are doing and are able to properly protect themselves.

What you don't get is a little thing called THE LAW . Which says that if a person works for someone and gets injured the person who hired them can be sued for damages. Now if there is a wellness policy in place AND the person gets injured then the business owner is not responsible unless they contributed to it.

Now before you give that each person responsibility talk understand that Vince is also thinking about the kids that watch his program. And the reality is that people who post in these forums ARE NOT WWE'S Core demographic at all. They are catering to the Mc Donald's crowd so you are the minority. And when wrestlers die, the parents stop buying the magazine, comic book, wristbands, and all the other stuff that bring in the money.

If you want hardcore watch CZW, IWS or IWA. They do unprotected shots all the time. I was at a show this saturday that featured Alex Shelley from TNA. But since you are not Vince's main target, you have to just deal.

And I would rather the wrestlers live to re-live the glory days than see them with injuries that affect them for years to come.

I don't care how much training you get. A chair shot still hurts and causes trauma to the head. Ask your doctor or better yet. Let someone hit you and we'll see how quickly you'll want to take another one.

 

[Remix]

Are you really having this argument with me D-Man? God damn right we should let people put drugs into their OWN body if they want to, I'm of the opinion that no body or government or authority should be able to tell you what you can or can't put into or do with your OWN body. Your body is the only fucking thing in this world that is 100% truly and always your property.

While this would make my future job one hell of a lot easier (all medicines would be GSL (they're all legal, right)) I'd absolutely hate for diamorphine (Heroin), or antibiotics to be as readily available as nicotine. Fuck, the reason they outlawed Diamorphine is because it's fucking lethal, addictive, and does a ton of other shit to your body as well as get you high. Antibiotics may seem like a safe thing to let the public freely consume. Until you realise that giving everybody them is a seriously bad idea. Just look at MRSA (or any other resistant bacteria for that matter) for a reason why. And that's ignoring the REALLY deadly shit that people would have access to. to name three off the top of my head, Atropine (deadly nightshade/belladonna), Strychnine (very painful way to die) and Methotrexate (cytotoxic. see here for just why you wouldn't want that available to the general public). But of course, that's irrelevent to this thread.

On topic, chairshots can ber performed safely and they usually are. However in a wrestling world which is PG, the WWE is under close scrutiny it can't afford to appear like it's soft on what is potentially causing brain damage to wrestlers. WWE is doing it as much (if not more) for itself as it is for the tallent.

You guys are VASTLY overrating the effects of chairshots. Again, if you know how to properly deliver and sell a chairshot, these problems don't exist. Stop hiring sloppy wrestlers. How many damn chairshots have Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker taken in their career? What about Ric Flair? Hulk Hogan? Yet all of these guys are still alive and kicking, several in great shape and still on top of the business. Because they know how to deliver the damn spot. If you don't know how to deliver the spot without hurting yourself, don't do it, simple as that.

And which looks better to the outsider 'nobody can hit anyone else in the head with a steel chair. It's dangerous.' or 'Nobody can hit anybody else in the head. Apart from these guys. They know how do do it right.' I repeat, this is being done so that the WWE can look like it's doing SOMETHING to improve wrestler's wellbeings. After Eddie, it was random drugtesting, and health checks (which have helped MVP prolong his life, at the very least). After Benoit, concussion screening was implimented. Wrestling's moving inline with every other buisness where safety of performers is paramount. We may not like it, but it's the case.

And that negates the great matches that have, how exactly? Excuse me if I want some variety in wrestling.

And there will still be hardcore matches without headshots. In fact it may force wrestlers to think of ways to kill their opponents in hardcore matches without using headshots. If you want brutal, bloody hardcore matches, I'm sure you've got a stack of old ECW tapes at home. Wrestling is moving on from ultraviolence with a side order of blood and is focusing on ya know, wrestling.

Bullshit, that match was centered entirely around the finish with the chair shots, those chair shots managed to convey the new page that Austin had turned and set the stage for his character and the entire WWF main event scene for the rest of the damn year. Again, excuse me for wanting variety.

And there's no way that the new page in Austin's career could have been portrayed in any way other than with a Dresdenesque assault of chairshots? This is a question, by the way. I wasn't watching wrestling at the time, so I have no context in which to put the match.

For the record though, I can't think of any really, really good matches that would have been improved by the addition of more violence.

I'm an adult, this "I watch for the STORIES!" bullshit hasn't been relevant to me since I was twelve years old D-Man. I love a good angle and story as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day I do not watch wrestling for the stories, I watch it for the WRESTLING. The in-ring product, which so happens to sometimes include dangerous spots like chair shots.

I'm the same as you, angles are great and all but I'm watching for wrestling. However, I'm all for banning headshots. Mostly because the talent not dropping dead at a rediculously fast rate ranks a bit higher up on my list of priorities than my own enjoyment. I also dont mind because even though it may do very little to protect wrestlers themselves (though every little helps), the secondary cause of it being put into place (to make the company look good) means that I can accept it. Maybe, when wrestlers dying has stopped being unsurprising, headshots will gradually be let back in.

Variety D-Man. VARIETY. You can't have the same fucking match forever and ever and ever. You need hardcore things like chairshots and steel cages and gimmick matches to blow off feuds.

and you can have a hardcore gimmickfest without headshots too. You can DDT somone into a chair (if you're doing it right, their head doesn't touch the ground), you can powerbomb people through tables. You can knock people off the cage. All that no headshots means is that the weapons (which would hurt like hell no matter where they hit) aren't going to be used on the head any more.

Absolutely incorrect. Brain damage is caused by BOTCHED chair shots. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Again, start teaching these wrestlers to properly deliver a chair shot and this problem goes away. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

Protected head or not, botched or not it doesnt matter. Chairshots to the head are going to leave your head ringing and do some damage to the brain. Sure you can reduce the risk by doing it safely, but nobody is immune to botches. I'm sure that even Bret injured soneone at some stage of his career. It's better from where WWE's standing to say fuck this, no more chairshots than restrict them and risk looking stupid if something goes wrong (and Murphy's law states that it will).

If you're seriously going to sit here and try to tell me that brain damage causes people to murder their family, I'm not sure what else I can say. Brain damage obviously had to do with Benoit's mental state, but you cannot connect those two things with anything other than the most circumstantial of evidence, which is what this is.

You can't conclusively prove anything about Benoit's case. You can eliminate almost every theory other than 'he chose to do it for whatever reason'. Brain damage could cause Benoit's brain to be fucked to the point that a good lawyer would get him off the hook (a tempory bout of insanity, for instance) of the premeditated murders of his wife and kid, whether it was the true cause/trigger/whatever or not.

 

[modest-genius]

It's only popular to "care about the wrestlers" when the WWE isn't doing it then.

There is no way to fake a chairshot, you just take it.

This is to stop a couple of young 20 year olds getting into the ring at their first WWE PPV.

"Hey dude, lets give them something special, you give me a good old fashioned crack over the head, the crowd will love it"

They sure will. But in 10 years when their brains are messed up and they have to retire early or their quality of life suffers, it wasn't going to seem like such a good idea.

It doesn't matter if the wrestlers don't mind taking the pain of the shot.

They are probably uneducated in the long-term damage. And the WWE has a responsibility to limit whatever damage wrestling causes.

I just don't get why they can't use props and sound effects to mimmick it anyway.

 

[miroa12004]

I'll say that I'm afraid with all those new policies WWE is listing these days, I'm afraid Pro Wrestling might not be available in the next 10 years or so, we all know it is pre determined but for the WWE to start putting these policies, is like they are encouraging more people to go to watch MMA.

I do care about the lives of the wrestlers but the fact is this is all pre determined, they could make a gimmick chair where it'll still look painful but won't cause much damage, quite frankly I think if you made it to the WWE, then you should know how to take/hit a chairshot and still be safe, thats what they spent years doing in training.

I hate MMA, and quite frankly think it is boring and gay, but in their minds, it is real and more violent than pro wrestling. Afterall what made pro wrestling famous in the late 90s and early 00s is the edgy product with violent matches and contreversial storylines.

If TNA didn't become serious competition to the WWE forcing them to step up their plate then I think pro wrestling will be dead.

 

[ZeroVX]

There is no way to fake a chairshot, you just take it.

How the hell do you know that? Are you a wrestler? Have you had training on how to take a chairshot? If not, then you don't know.

This is to stop a couple of young 20 year olds getting into the ring at their first WWE PPV.

OK, that is just ridiculous. Seeing someone get smacked in the head with a chair is going to make people jump in the ring and do the same? Are you serious?

It doesn't matter if the wrestlers don't mind taking the pain of the shot.

Actually, yeah, it kind of does. If they want to take a chairshot to the head, they should be allowed to. If they don't, then they don't have to. It's not like WWE was forcing them to do so before this.

They are probably uneducated in the long-term damage. And the WWE has a responsibility to limit whatever damage wrestling causes.

After Benoit, Test, Nowinski, and numerous others' stories concerning concussions, I seriously doubt that.

I just don't get why they can't use props and sound effects to mimmick it anyway.

How the hell would that even work? To us, that would probably sound incredibly fake, and if we at home find it fake, how would the live crowd view it? That's just a stupid idea.

 

[JCE]

Personally this is a great idea and could make chair shots so much more special depending on how you look at it.

A. Wrestlers heath is a huge issue, this will eliminate wrestlers in there 40's down the road to take "time off" after big shows because of re acouring injuries. (HBK/TAKER chair shot related or not)

B. less chair shots is good no great for the biz. This will make fueds soo much better not seeing chair shot ever damn week or two. That way when Orton fueds with some one and does hit them with a chair (to the back, leg, neck...maybe) it will add to the shock factor of how "evil" the heels are. Or FINALLY xxwrestler got revenge on the heel!

I really hope this is the plan for the "E" i really feel chair shots have been over done and as fans we expect them more offten now almost as much as certain wrestlers finishers. Not using them as much will add so much shock and awe when they do happen.

 

[Shocky]

For Fuck's sake, the insanity that people are actually against the WWE being proactive in something is mind boggling. What the fuck have we constantly complained about, wrestlers dying at a young age. Hell, it was to a point you couldn't go a month without some big name wrestler dying from the ill effects of a wrestling career.

Now the WWE has implemented a Drug Testing Policy, Banned Blood, toned the product down, and banished potentially life threatening, if not flat out life altering chair shots to the head. How in the hell do people have a problem with this?

Also, has anyone paid attention to what is going on in the NFL. The NFL is doing the exact same thing with their league. The NFL has gotten one hell of a bad rep from it's retired players pretty much being worthless in life because of the amount of damage done to their brains. Hell, Congress has talked about investigating it. If the NFL is a potential victim, why in the hell wouldn't they go after their favorite target in Vince McMahon?

The WWE is cleaning its act up, and protecting their wrestlers. If you need a chair shot, or some blood to be a fan and enjoy wrestling, then you probably aren't a fan of wrestling.

 

[raptorsfan4life]

i agree with shocky and just wanna add that head shots are pretty crappy these days... they look weak... did you guys see flair hit abyss this week... it was awful... no need to complain about it... great thing wwe did and it should be appreciated

 

[Kliq]

A good 'ol straight shot to the mid-section followed up by a whopping shot to the back. Those should come back now. :] But it will be interesting to the outside world to see chair shots to the head are illegal, yet sending a man through a table on fire is perfectly within the rules. Also, like Codatious99 said, how about con-chairtos? They never actually hit the head, but I suppose they'd be out to? What about sledgehammer shots to the head? I can't hit your head with this dinky aluminum chair but here, I'll use this 10lb hammer.

I understand the differences in how each of the items are actually used, so in Pro Wrestling a chair actually DOES more damage than one of HHH's hammer shots to the face. It is just interesting when you think of the logic, but then again this is PRO wrestling, so... :]

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Wow, there have really been some truly idiotic responses to this thread. The WWE is trying to do what it can in order to keep wrestlers healthy and here comes the usual bitch and moan about the WWE watering down its product. But, then again, I'm not exactly surprised because some fans see wrestlers as little more than tools that should be more than willing to put their lives on the line just so they can get a rush from the sound of steel smacking up against skull. Anyone that believes a chair shot to the head isn't all that much is showing just how ignorant they are as to what kind of potential trauma that can cause to someone. The human body is an amazing piece of engineering, albeit somewhat contradictory in construction. One one hand, it's tough and durable and its fragile at the same time. When you take a shot to the head, particularly from something along the lines of a 5 pound piece of metal being swung at your head at about 20-30 miles per hour, all it takes is just the right amount of pressure at just the right angle and it just the right place to potentially turn someone into a vegetable. Pro wrestling is supposed to be entertaining, it's supposed to have compelling characters that put on a great show. It's not supposed to be a cock fight with men substituted for chickens.

Look at all the wrestlers that have dropped dead over the past several years, many of which haven't even reached 40. Whenever you work a wrestling match, you're taking a risk no matter what. That shouldn't be an automatic license to crank up that risk as much as humanly possible. The WWE is trying to do what it can to keep wrestlers as healthy as they can. They're damned if they do, damned if they don't.

It's just a shame that it took the Benoit tragedy for all this to eventually unfold, but it's better late than never. In spite of all the pyro, all the drama, all the characters, wrestlers are flesh and blood people just as we are.

 

[Jaims]

My sentiments reflect those of the posters who see this as an act of protection for the wrestlers, and a much needed one at that. What if you found out later in life that at the age of 55 or 60, your favorite wrestler of all time is incontinent, can't walk, can't talk correctly, is confused, has vision problems, or anything else and it was all because he took too many shots to the head in his younger years? How good would you feel if you were screaming out for more headshots, egging the performers on, only to ultimately be reducing their future quality of life?

When blood disappeared, I was OK with it, because intentionally cutting yourself open over and over again can eventually lead to a situation where something goes wrong. I see head shots in the same vain. Even if the WWE says they need to be more protected, that just means that at Wrestlemania, when everyone wants to impress the fans, all of the wrestlers are going to take dead-on shots to the skull to ooh and ahh the fans. So you need to just nip it in the bud: no head shots. Period. Hit him in the back, the gut, the leg, I'll still pop for it! But let's make sure these men can enjoy their futures, with their families, with their minds intact.