WWE: No More Chair Shots To The Head

[Unsold Bacon]

I read this this morning on a different website. To be honest I agree with this unlike a lot of stuff WWE does. It's for the wrestlers health, if this was in place earlier I wonder if Beniot and Test would still be alive. Maybe Beniot.

 

[NthDegree23]

When was the last time a wrestler was seriously injured by a chair shot to the head? I'm not asking facetiously, I would really like to know. I feel like there must be some instances of it I'm unaware of for this to have happened.

I think it's sort of funny. I guess we'll never see the epic rematch of Taker and 'Tista's Chair Match.

Could this policy possibly have anything to do with the fact that chair shots to the head make accidental bleeding more likely? Or is that incorrect because WWE wrestlers always take the shot to the head with their hands anyway, thus making the whole thing sort of ludicrous?

 

[X]

Anyone on here that is against this policy obviously doesn't give a damn about any of the wrestlers' personal lives.

Excuse me? Who are you to tell me I don't care about these guys just because I see no problem with them letting wrestlers do something they are okay with? This isn't sports where anytime you get a concussion it's done accidentally through regular play, this is a simulated sport in which both parties are fully aware of what they are doing and are in no real danger so long as they know how to perform and protect themselves at the same time. Benoit's concussions weren't just from chairshots, they were from years and years of driving his forehead into people from across the ring.

If the wrestler themselves have no problem taking these risks, I don't see the problem. Mick Foley made a career out of it, and he's one of the most entertaining performers wrestling has ever seen. If a guy is willing to take the bump, let him take it, no one is forcing them to.

 

[D-Man]

Well this is fucking awful news. No blood, no chairshots? What the fuck am I watching, WCW from 20 years ago? Are they going to ban moves from the top rope next as well while we're at it?

Look, I get how this is beneficial to the wrestlers, as many people have had long term consequences from concussions and post-concussion syndrome in both he wrestling business and the sports world, but this is just absurd. This is professional wrestling, NOT an actual sport, both men should be professional enough to know how to perform these moves (including chairshots) without actually hurting them long-term, that's kind of the point of why they train. Sometimes mistakes are made or passion gets out of hand and guys go all-out in a match, but if they themselves WANT to do that, I see no problem with that. Fuck guys like Mick Foley made their careers out of being willing to do the crazy shit like that, and we all know how beloved Foley is by just about every wrestling fan on the planet.

I get the safety idea, but this is just going to far. Where are they going to hit them now, in the chest? Just the back? Come the fuck on, we're watching professional wrestling here not Olympic Greco-Roman. This sucks for both the fans, and the guys that were willing to take those bigger bumps and who because of that were able to get their feet in the door (guys like Foley). Awful news.

While I can see where you're coming from, this is a very selfish point of view. There are many things to consider here.

First off, we really SHOULD care about the health and wellness of these guys. Do you honestly feel that chair shots to the head are THAT detrimental towards the product? Is it THAT much of an entertainment-killer? Matches are still going to be matches. You're still going to see bodyslams, moonsaults, planchas, and stiff, physical shots given to the superstars. But they're eliminating blood and chair shots to the head... stop the press. If they took away chair shots PERIOD, I'd see where you're coming from. But come on now... it's just the head shots they're taking away. The world isn't going to stop turning because of this.

Secondly, as a former poster on Wrestlezone probabl;y would've brought up, this is Vince's way of protecting himself and his company.

When the steroid scandal arose, who was blamed? Vince.

When wrestlers began dying left and right, who was blamed? Vince.

When Benoit murdered himself and his family, who was blamed? Vince.

God forbid the guy implement something in his wellness policy that shows a little bit of concern for the well being of his employees. How much abuse do you expect him to take for issues that were beyond his control before he tries to prevent them from happening again?

Vince's wellness policy was implemented in order to protect his wrestlers and to exonerate him from any further scrutiny as a result of another tragedy that can somehow be blamed on steroids, drugs, constant bleeding in the ring, and now the newest implementation... chair shots to the head. There comes a time when Vince needs to stop giving a shit about your personal preference for violence and worry more about the bigger issues at hand.

I doubt that his ratings are going to suffer because his wrestlers are now being struck in the back with a chair instead of the head.

 

[pun2003hh]

I have a feeling I am going to catch some flack for my last post, so let me say this. I liken this situation to the problem in this country with kids and their parents. In my youth, when I did something wrong or out of line, it wasn't anyone's fault but my own. It wasn't because of movies, it wasn't because of violent video games or music, it wasn't because of the media, it was because of me and my stupidity at the time. And I was punished accordingly. Nowadays children are getting away with murder because instead of the parent actually parenting, they are looking to place the blame on something, anything but themselves and their child.

The same thing is happening in the wrestling industry. When someone get's hurt or suffers some sort of brain damage, or dies early of drugs, or does something along the lines of the Benoit tragedy, everyone jumps on the bandwagon and tries to blame the industry or specifically, McMahon and the WWE. That is a bunch of BS, the blame lies with the individual and the choices they made. It's the wrestler himself that chooses to do the drugs, or that chooses to do the dangerous move without having proper and thorough training on it.

It's funny about this chairshot issue and its link to concussions. I have been watching Taker, HBK, Triple H, Big Show, etc for years and years, and I can't remember hearing about any major issue stemming from any of them taking a chair shot, and I can remember them taking some particularly brutal shots over the years. Maybe because these professionals know what they are doing and are able to properly protect themselves.

 

[Athena]

Excuse me? Who are you to tell me I don't care about these guys just because I see no problem with them letting wrestlers do something they are okay with? This isn't sports where anytime you get a concussion it's done accidentally through regular play, this is a simulated sport in which both parties are fully aware of what they are doing and are in no real danger so long as they know how to perform and protect themselves at the same time. Benoit's concussions weren't just from chairshots, they were from years and years of driving his forehead into people from across the ring.

If the wrestler themselves have no problem taking these risks, I don't see the problem. Mick Foley made a career out of it, and he's one of the most entertaining performers wrestling has ever seen. If a guy is willing to take the bump, let him take it, no one is forcing them to.

If you think that it's ok for wrestler to even be put in a situation where he/she can suffer life long brain trauma, then you're just a complete fucking prick. Of course everything is run through and practiced beforehand, but no one expects to get a concussion; it just happens completely by accident.

Do you think Triple H had any control over his quad injuries? Was there anything that he could have done to prevent them? No, not a single thing. Or with Foley falling through the cell. Was there anything he or Taker could have done to avoid it? No, there was no way of knowing it would happen. But by eliminating unnecessary chair shots to the head, the risk of serious injury drops dramatically. You just don't seem to understand that

 

[X]

While I can see where you're coming from, this is a very selfish point of view. There are many things to consider here.

How again is it selfish to let someone do something they are completely okay with? Do you go and tell a race car driver that he has to stop racing because he could hurt himself? They are willing to do the bump and take the risk, how is that selfish of me?

First off, we really SHOULD care about the health and wellness of these guys. Do you honestly feel that chair shots to the head are THAT detrimental towards the product? Is it THAT much of an entertainment-killer? Matches are still going to be matches. You're still going to see bodyslams, moonsaults, planchas, and stiff, physical shots given to the superstars. But they're eliminating blood and chair shots to the head... stop the press. If they took away chair shots PERIOD, I'd see where you're coming from. But come on now... it's just the head shots they're taking away. The world isn't going to stop turning because of this.

Fuck yes this is going to take away from wrestling, countless great matches have included blood and chairshots, fuck can you imagine what the main event of Wrestlemania 17 would look like minus the blood and chair shots? That match would've sucked, but instead it's known as one of the greatest Mania main events of all time.

And I enjoy a good hardcore match like the battles guys like Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome used to have , and those matches would simply not be the same without those absolutely VICIOUS chairshots.

Secondly, as a former poster on Wrestlezone probabl;y would've brought up, this is Vince's way of protecting himself and his company.

When the steroid scandal arose, who was blamed? Vince.

When wrestlers began dying left and right, who was blamed? Vince.

When Benoit murdered himself and his family, who was blamed? Vince.

God forbid the guy implement something in his wellness policy that shows a little bit of concern for the well being of his employees. How much abuse do you expect him to take for issues that were beyond his control before he tries to prevent them from happening again?

Vince's wellness policy was implemented in order to protect his wrestlers and to exonerate him from any further scrutiny as a result of another tragedy that can somehow be blamed on steroids, drugs, constant bleeding in the ring, and now the newest implementation... chair shots to the head. There comes a time when Vince needs to stop giving a shit about your personal preference for violence and worry more about the bigger issues at hand.

I doubt that his ratings are going to suffer because his wrestlers are now being struck in the back with a chair instead of the head.

Are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that the steroid scandals, countless dead wrestlers, and the Benoit murders were all caused by chairshots? Are you joking me right now man? Tell me you're joking.

 

[D-Man]

Look, I am all for protecting the wrestlers, but there comes a point when you have to look back and say "What business are we in again?" You can't continue to ban things that are a basis of your product.

Chair shots to the head are the "basis of the product"? I thought it was a choreographed physical contest between two combatants? What the fuck have you been watching?

It is almost if they are slowly but surely eliminating the physical aspect of wrestling all together and morphing it to a variety/reality show. How about you fine the individuals that take an unprotected chair shots. Or if you are really upset about it, why not create gimmicked chairs, in the same fashion that garbage cans are just semi hardened aluminum?

Take a chair shot to the head and tell me if it tickles. Then say this again.

Do you think these guys are invincible? Honestly?!? Combine chair shots to the head with the constant whiplash of taking bumps multiple times on a daily basis. Then let's see how selfish you'd be about this.

But eliminating chair shots to the head completely is again taking something away that is a basis of wrestling. Kind of like banning moves like the piledriver because a small handful of wrestlers can't protect themselves.

Say that to Stone Cold's face. I dare you.

As far as the WWE goes, I am tuning into Wrestlemania 26 for Undertaker vs HBK but after that, I am sure I am done.

GOOD. Trust me, they don't want your business.

I have defended the WWE through this entire transformation to the PG/John Cena led era, and I stuck through it because there is still some good quality entertainment on the programs, but this might be it for me. More and more, what I am watching is not a wrestling program, but a reality/variety show. TNA and ROH has my viewership for the time being in hopes that they see some success if for no other reason then to push change in the WWE similar to the change that was sparked by WCW and ECWs success.

It's like you all forgot what wrestling was all about. It's not about violence, blood, guts, cursing, and bare-naked women. It's supposed to be a take on a fair, just, physical contest between multiple combatants on a professional level. Granted, in any athletic environment, there's smack talk, drama, and aggression. But instead of drifting further and further away from the true, pure meaning behind this form of entertainment, you all want to see a horror flick at the expense of the men and women that beat the shit out of themselves on a daily basis for you.

 

[jrharris02]

Everybody talk about Benoit's death when truthfully, he killed his family then killed himself. How is that related to a concussion? On top of that, these wrestlers know the risk they put themselves in when they sign that contract. WWE is goin down, letting the PG rating rule out everything. If i was still a kid, I wouldnt watch it kuz it looks too fake. I grew up watching WWE/F and I love the old days, but I'm def tuning in to TNA.

 

[Krames85]

I see this whole thing as good and bad. Honestly, it's great for the wrestlers themselves. Most have families and are trying to support them, and if one cant work after the age of 35-40 that person is probably gonna be in some serious trouble. Even though wrestlers know from the get go that this is a rough kind of job, there still needs to be an enforcement so guys don't have any regrets for their future. Now I see this as being bad for the fans though. Again, I'm happy the WWE is doing this, but think of all the great matches you've seen that have used chair shots to show how someone is getting "brutalized"? Think of all the greatest matches out there and their use of the chair shot. Listen to the crowd when someone gets hit with the chair, people react very well to chair shots and I think it will take a little of the excitement out of the matches. I mean really look at some matches that really used the chair shot to expose the deep story of a match. Best example, Royal Rumble 1998 or 99 (I forget) The Rock vs. Mankind, I Quit Match! That match is known for the shots Foley took to the head (13 crazy shots might I add!)! I know that the end result of this is wasn't great (Foley is definitely not what he used to be), but you gotta admit that match was extremely entertaining.

 

[X]

If you think that it's ok for wrestler to even be put in a situation where he/she can suffer life long brain trauma, then you're just a complete fucking prick.

Really? Glad to know you can judge my entire character off a fucking wrestling post on a forum. You're not a complete tool, nope, not at all.

Of course everything is run through and practiced beforehand, but no one expects to get a concussion; it just happens completely by accident.

No shit. This is why they get paid to do what they do. They get paid to risk their bodies to entertain the fans, no different from any other stunt-performer or racecar driver or countless other professions.

Do you think Triple H had any control over his quad injuries? Was there anything that he could have done to prevent them? No, not a single thing.

This has what to do with chairshots?

Or with Foley falling through the cell. Was there anything he or Taker could have done to avoid it? No

Umm, yes actually, they could have simply NOT done the spot. Are you trying to tell me that Taker and Foley planned that spot and expected Foley to be fine? You think Foley said to himself "Okay time to fall 20 feet through a steel cage onto a ring the consistency of concrete, I'm sure this won't hurt a bit!" during that match? Fuck no. Foley KNEW he was going to be injured, and he had no problem with it, it's why he took that bump even when Taker didn't want him to, he INSISTED on doing the bump.

But by eliminating unnecessary chair shots to the head, the risk of serious injury drops dramatically. You just don't seem to understand that

You just don't seem to understand that if you're a fucking professional wrestler, you should be able to deliver and sell a chairshot without ACTUALLY hurting yourself and giving yourself a concussion. It's been done by countless wrestlers in the business for decades now, many of which are still alive and perfectly healthy and on top of the WWE right now like Triple H, HBK, Undertaker, etc. If you think the deaths of guys like Andrew Martin and Chris Benoit were because of fucking CHAIR SHOTS and not decades of drug and steroid abuse, then you're out of your mind.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

How again is it selfish to let someone do something they are completely okay with? Do you go and tell a race car driver that he has to stop racing because he could hurt himself? They are willing to do the bump and take the risk, how is that selfish of me?



Fuck yes this is going to take away from wrestling, countless great matches have included blood and chairshots, fuck can you imagine what the main event of Wrestlemania 17 would look like minus the blood and chair shots? That match would've sucked, but instead it's known as one of the greatest Mania main events of all time.

And I enjoy a good hardcore match like the battles guys like Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome used to have , and those matches would simply not be the same without those absolutely VICIOUS chairshots.




Are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that the steroid scandals, countless dead wrestlers, and the Benoit murders were all caused by chairshots? Are you joking me right now man? Tell me you're joking.

I know you know D-Man isn't saying all those are caused by chairshots. What I believe he is trying to say is Vince is trying to prevent chair shots to the head because if there is damage caused by it later on and wrestlers die from it, then it is going to fall on Vince. The public perception is that all the tragic things that have happened in the WWE goes back to Vince. Now if the wrestlers want chair shots to the head, then that is fine by me. I think Vince is doing this because if he lets the wrestlers "police" themselves and something terrible happens as a result of it later on, the backlash may fall on him and he doesn't want that.

 

[Athena]

Everybody talk about Benoit's death when truthfully, he killed his family then killed himself. How is that related to a concussion? On top of that, these wrestlers know the risk they put themselves in when they sign that contract. WWE is goin down, letting the PG rating rule out everything. If i was still a kid, I wouldnt watch it kuz it looks too fake. I grew up watching WWE/F and I love the old days, but I'm def tuning in to TNA.

Benoit's situation was the way it was because of mental trauma caused partly by the steroids, but mostly aggravated by years of blows to the head. The two contributed to a state of psychosis which resulted in him killing his family and his self. There's no way you can sit there any say that chair shots to the head and Benoit's death are not related.

 

[X]

I know you know D-Man isn't saying all those are caused by chairshots. What I believe he is trying to say is Vince is trying to prevent chair shots to the head because if there is damage caused by it later on and wrestlers die from it, then it is going to fall on Vince. The public perception is that all the tragic things that have happened in the WWE goes back to Vince. Now if the wrestlers want chair shots to the head, then that is fine by me. I think Vince is doing this because if he lets the wrestlers "police" themselves and something terrible happens as a result of it later on, the backlash may fall on him and he doesn't want that.

Then he shouldn't be hiring and paying wrestlers who don't know how to properly deliver and sell a chairshot, boom, problem solved. Countless guys have been able to give and take chairshots for decades with little to no ill effects, because they train and KNOW how to do these moves without actually hurting the other person, it's what sets them above so many others as great wrestlers in this business. If you can't take or deliver a chairshot properly then you as a wrestler are a liability in that ring, not the inanimate object. Get rid of the sloppy and poorly trained wrestlers and we wouldn't have this problem.

 

[Mr. TM]

Everybody talk about Benoit's death when truthfully, he killed his family then killed himself. How is that related to a concussion?

Because after so many headshots, he developed a mental illness, and because of this illness, he killed his family, starting from being hit in the head.

Well, since I think this is from a legal view, and not a keyfabe view, this is good news. I am sure that there will be continued "shots to the head", but now wrestlers will get into trouble every time there is a mistake made, and contact is actually made. Makes sense, they aren't actually trying to maime eachother, just trying to make it look like it. Now they just have to be careful.

 

[D-Man]

How again is it selfish to let someone do something they are completely okay with? Do you go and tell a race car driver that he has to stop racing because he could hurt himself? They are willing to do the bump and take the risk, how is that selfish of me?

Let's get real here, X. You can get killed by crossing the fucking streets or breathing in the wrong air. But I'm not telling you to hold your breath indefinitely.

However, if what you say is true about letting someone do something they are ok with, then we should legalize heroin and pay people to inject it into their veins, shouldn't we? But we shouldn't care because it's fun to watch them tweak out, right?

Vince and co. is trying to keep all of you entertained while keeping this business alive for the future. What is wrong with him finding a happy median between what you enjoy and what keeps his wrestlers safe?

Fuck yes this is going to take away from wrestling, countless great matches have included blood and chairshots

And more great matches haven't included them.

fuck can you imagine what the main event of Wrestlemania 17 would look like minus the blood and chair shots?

Yeah, a wrestling match. Taking away chair shots wouldn't change that. I would've enjoyed it just the same.

That match would've sucked, but instead it's known as one of the greatest Mania main events of all time.

Your opinion and I respect it. But I disagree. It's drama and storyline was enough to keep mne glued to the set. Not to mention the competitors in the match. I would've paid everything I could afford to witness it, even if it DIDN'T include the chair shots and blood.

And I enjoy a good hardcore match like the battles guys like Masato Tanaka and Mike Awesome used to have , and those matches would simply not be the same without those absolutely VICIOUS chairshots.

But I'd be perfectly happy with a bunch of matches like HBK vs. Undertaker at last year's Wrestlemania. They didn't need blood and chairs to the head.

Are you SERIOUSLY trying to tell me that the steroid scandals, countless dead wrestlers, and the Benoit murders were all caused by chairshots? Are you joking me right now man? Tell me you're joking.

Read what I wrote again. You obviously didn't read it correctly.

I'm saying that brain damage is caused by chair shots. The same brain damage that caused a man to murder himself and his family. So, along with a wellness policy that test for steroids and drugs, Vince is trying to protect his men against a leading cause for brain damage in pro-wrestling.

 

[jrharris02]

Steroids contribute to behavior like that. Not condoning chair shots but they're fake anyway. He took his to the head, but most stars put their hands up.

 

[Athena]

Really? Glad to know you can judge my entire character off a fucking wrestling post on a forum. You're not a complete tool, nope, not at all.

No, you're the massive tool for expecting people to needlessly risk their lives just so you can watch and get off on seeing someone hit in the face with a chair. Not only do you sound like a tool, but a complete jackoff as well.

No shit. This is why they get paid to do what they do. They get paid to risk their bodies to entertain the fans, no different from any other stunt-performer or racecar driver or countless other professions.

They get paid to risk their bodies, not their lives. Learn the difference, although you may be too stupid to understand it.

Umm, yes actually, they could have simply NOT done the spot. Are you trying to tell me that Taker and Foley planned that spot and expected Foley to be fine? You think Foley said to himself "Okay time to fall 20 feet through a steel cage onto a ring the consistency of concrete, I'm sure this won't hurt a bit!" during that match? Fuck no. Foley KNEW he was going to be injured, and he had no problem with it, it's why he took that bump even when Taker didn't want him to, he INSISTED on doing the bump.

Thank you for making my point for me. By "not doing the spot" (chair shots to the head in this case) it eliminates the chance for serious injury to happen. And you seem not to know this, but the breaking through the cell cage was not supposed to happen, and has been well documented. It just goes to further my point that anything can happen, even if you're well-prepared, but taking away needless chair shots to the head will greatly improve the wrestlers' lives after they retire.

 

[beefthelegend]

go look up Matt Cooke's pussy cheap shot to Marc Savard's head on youtube. See how Savard had to be carried off the ice on a stretcher?

Except for that was a legal hit. Well...legal when he hit him...i'm sure it won't be for much longer.

In any event: I think this is a smart move. Maybe we will see wrestlers into their fifties and sixties without needing surgeries for hip replacement, or dying early, or having addiction to pain killers...or ODing. WWE is headed down a good road-which is for the health of their entertainers. Is this about Benoit? Yes. Could this have prevented the Benoit situation? No. As another user said, his trauma came from years of Headbutts from the top-not chair shots. But because he did what he did, everyone, in every sport, has been forced to evaluate the mental safety of their players due to concussions. Aside from the pathetic cheap shot about Matt Cooke (I bet you're either a Boston fan, Flyer fan, or Cap fan), i agree with what Athena said. Every sport is changing for the better...

Pro wrestling will not suffer because of loss of chair shots to the head.

Anyone remember Royal Rumble 99? (I believe it was 99 anyway) Rock vs. Foley-I quit. Foley was handcuffed, and beaten by the Rock. Assaulted. You remember the look on the face of his wife, or his kids when he was being smashed 15 times without the protection of his hands? It was mortifying. i thought we we viewing an execution. Ironically, i bet Vince was loving it then-not caring about reprocussions...only about the Shock value.

 

[X]

Let's get real here, X. You can get killed by crossing the fucking streets or breathing in the wrong air. But I'm not telling you to hold your breath indefinitely.

However, if what you say is true about letting someone do something they are ok with, then we should legalize heroin and pay people to inject it into their veins, shouldn't we? But we shouldn't care because it's fun to watch them tweak out, right?

Are you really having this argument with me D-Man? God damn right we should let people put drugs into their OWN body if they want to, I'm of the opinion that no body or government or authority should be able to tell you what you can or can't put into or do with your OWN body. Your body is the only fucking thing in this world that is 100% truly and always your property.

Vince and co. is trying to keep all of you entertained while keeping this business alive for the future. What is wrong with him finding a happy median between what you enjoy and what keeps his wrestlers safe?

You guys are VASTLY overrating the effects of chairshots. Again, if you know how to properly deliver and sell a chairshot, these problems don't exist. Stop hiring sloppy wrestlers. How many damn chairshots have Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker taken in their career? What about Ric Flair? Hulk Hogan? Yet all of these guys are still alive and kicking, several in great shape and still on top of the business. Because they know how to deliver the damn spot. If you don't know how to deliver the spot without hurting yourself, don't do it, simple as that.

And more great matches haven't included them.

And that negates the great matches that have, how exactly? Excuse me if I want some variety in wrestling.

Yeah, a wrestling match. Taking away chair shots wouldn't change that. I would've enjoyed it just the same.

Bullshit, that match was centered entirely around the finish with the chair shots, those chair shots managed to convey the new page that Austin had turned and set the stage for his character and the entire WWF main event scene for the rest of the damn year. Again, excuse me for wanting variety.

Your opinion and I respect it. But I disagree. It's drama and storyline was enough to keep mne glued to the set. Not to mention the competitors in the match. I would've paid everything I could afford to witness it, even if it DIDN'T include the chair shots and blood.

I'm an adult, this "I watch for the STORIES!" bullshit hasn't been relevant to me since I was twelve years old D-Man. I love a good angle and story as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day I do not watch wrestling for the stories, I watch it for the WRESTLING. The in-ring product, which so happens to sometimes include dangerous spots like chair shots.

But I'd be perfectly happy with a bunch of matches like HBK vs. Undertaker at last year's Wrestlemania. They didn't need blood and chairs to the head.

Variety D-Man. VARIETY. You can't have the same fucking match forever and ever and ever. You need hardcore things like chairshots and steel cages and gimmick matches to blow off feuds.

Read what I wrote again. You obviously didn't read it correctly.

I'm saying that brain damage is caused by chair shots.

Absolutely incorrect. Brain damage is caused by BOTCHED chair shots. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Again, start teaching these wrestlers to properly deliver a chair shot and this problem goes away. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

The same brain damage that caused a man to murder himself and his family. So, along with a wellness policy that test for steroids and drugs, Vince is trying to protect his men against a leading cause for brain damage in pro-wrestling.

If you're seriously going to sit here and try to tell me that brain damage causes people to murder their family, I'm not sure what else I can say. Brain damage obviously had to do with Benoit's mental state, but you cannot connect those two things with anything other than the most circumstantial of evidence, which is what this is.

 

[X]

No, you're the massive tool for expecting people to needlessly risk their lives just so you can watch and get off on seeing someone hit in the face with a chair. Not only do you sound like a tool, but a complete jackoff as well.

THEY WANT TO DO IT. Are you fucking serious? Who the fuck are you to tell me or them what they can or can't do? If a stuntman or performer WANTS to attempt a dangerous stunt, they know the risks, they know what they're doing. I'm a prick for letting people do what they want? Not sure how the fuck that works.

They get paid to risk their bodies, not their lives. Learn the difference, although you may be too stupid to understand it.

My god, some of you just cannot fucking read can you? Chairshots don't cause brain damage. BOTCHED chairshots do. Learn to fucking deliver one properly, and this problem goes away. This is what, the 50th time I've said this now? Do I need to say it a 51st time?

Thank you for making my point for me. By "not doing the spot" (chair shots to the head in this case) it eliminates the chance for serious injury to happen. And you seem not to know this, but the breaking through the cell cage was not supposed to happen, and has been well documented. It just goes to further my point that anything can happen, even if you're well-prepared, but taking away needless chair shots to the head will greatly improve the wrestlers' lives after they retire.

If they are willing to take the bump, I have no problem with that. It's their own bodies, they can do whatever the fuck they'd like with them, the difference between doing a wrestling bump and getting concussions in an ACTUAL sport is that in the actual sport, you have no choice but to go out there and compete and put your body on the line, or you're fired. In wrestling, NO ONE is forcing you to do a dangerous bump if you don't want to do it. If John Cena or Batista or anyone on the roster said to Vince "You know Vince, I'd really prefer not to be choke-slammed through eight tables with barbed wire and glass on them, is that cool?", I'm sure Vince would have no problem with removing the bump.

No one is forcing these men to do these things. Part of what makes the artistry of a wrestling match is letting both performers go out there and do their craft, plan their spots and deliver a good match. If you keep removing move after move after move and bump after bump, you're limiting what these men can do in the ring.

 

[pun2003hh]

Chair shots to the head are the "basis of the product"? I thought it was a choreographed physical contest between two combatants? What the fuck have you been watching?

Oh man, I can't wait to rip into this one. First off, yes it is about choreographed violence. But you are stripping the product slowly and surely of the different acts of violence that you can simulate. I don't know how clearer I can make it to you. UNPROTECTED chairshots to the head should absolutely be banned in this business. Case in point, someone (I am really biting my head off because I can't remember who it was) a few months ago had taken an unprotected headshot and was chewed out by management because of it. That is extremely dangerous and pretty foolish. But most of the top guys have perfected the art of taking a brutal looking, yet completely safe headshot using their hands to take the impact. It is not a horror show or extreme violence, it is a staple of heel tactics that has been used for decades you f'n mark! Ok, I am sorry, that will be my only angry comment in this post.

Take a chair shot to the head and tell me if it tickles. Then say this again.
Do you think these guys are invincible? Honestly?!? Combine chair shots to the head with the constant whiplash of taking bumps multiple times on a daily basis. Then let's see how selfish you'd be about this.

You bring up the whiplash from a chairshot and that is completely ridiculous. Your daily dose of bodyslams, suplexes, powerbombs and other moves give you much more whiplash then a simulated chairshot.

Say that to Stone Cold's face. I dare you.

What happened to Austin is one example where it wasn't the wrestler protecting himself that was the issue, but the other wrestler failing to protect his opponent. Either way, the blame falls on the wrestler, and should not lead to a complete ban of the move.

GOOD. Trust me, they don't want your business.

Not even going to dignify this response because it is a Mark type response and I was enjoying your response until this came along.

It's like you all forgot what wrestling was all about. It's not about violence, blood, guts, cursing, and bare-naked women. It's supposed to be a take on a fair, just, physical contest between multiple combatants on a professional level. Granted, in any athletic environment, there's smack talk, drama, and aggression. But instead of drifting further and further away from the true, pure meaning behind this form of entertainment, you all want to see a horror flick at the expense of the men and women that beat the shit out of themselves on a daily basis for you.

It seems YOU have forgotten that this business is based on entertainment that happens in the ring. It also takes place on the mic and in backstage segments, but the basis of this business is IN THE RING. Again, I am for protecting the wrestlers, and unlike what you have labeled me, I am not some Horror show freak that loves blood and gore. But don't limit an athlete on what they can do or can't do in the ring to help me suspend disbelief. Instead of banning chairshots to the head, how about you make sure that your wrestlers are properly trained to take them as to protect themselves.

 

[Athena]

THEY WANT TO DO IT. Are you fucking serious? Who the fuck are you to tell me or them what they can or can't do? If a stuntman or performer WANTS to attempt a dangerous stunt, they know the risks, they know what they're doing. I'm a prick for letting people do what they want? Not sure how the fuck that works.

No, you're being a prick for acting so ignorant of the situation. Either you A) Don't understand the severity of multiple concussions or B) You do, and just don't care about the wrestlers. Either or, you need to wise up.

My god, some of you just cannot fucking read can you? Chairshots don't cause brain damage. BOTCHED chairshots do. Learn to fucking deliver one properly, and this problem goes away. This is what, the 50th time I've said this now? Do I need to say it a 51st time?

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable about how injuries occur, let's see your evidence that "non-botched" chair shots cause injuries. Go ask Test how he feels about the chair shots to his head and how that affects his quality of life.

Oh wait you can't. He's dead because of pills he took to help relieve the stress of the brain damage he's received over his career.

If they are willing to take the bump, I have no problem with that. It's their own bodies, they can do whatever the fuck they'd like with them, the difference between doing a wrestling bump and getting concussions in an ACTUAL sport is that in the actual sport, you have no choice but to go out there and compete and put your body on the line, or you're fired. In wrestling, NO ONE is forcing you to do a dangerous bump if you don't want to do it. If John Cena or Batista or anyone on the roster said to Vince "You know Vince, I'd really prefer not to be choke-slammed through eight tables with barbed wire and glass on them, is that cool?", I'm sure Vince would have no problem with removing the bump.

No one is forcing these men to do these things. Part of what makes the artistry of a wrestling match is letting both performers go out there and do their craft, plan their spots and deliver a good match. If you keep removing move after move after move and bump after bump, you're limiting what these men can do in the ring.

Once again, you seem unable to determine the difference between "putting a body on the line" and "putting a life on the line." Injuries are a part of wrestling, including broken bones, lacerations, torn muscles, etc, but something that no wrestler should ever have to endure is brain damage that affects how they live after retirement.

Removing "move after move?" The only move that has been banned is the piledriver, and for good reason. Ask Steve Austin if he "botched" the landing of the piledriver he took from Owen. If you need to get off on chair shots to the head, then go watch some old ECW tapes or TNA. There's no place in the WWE for fans like you who put your own selfish desire to see blood and action over the safety of the wrestlers.

 

[pun2003hh]

Then he shouldn't be hiring and paying wrestlers who don't know how to properly deliver and sell a chairshot, boom, problem solved. Countless guys have been able to give and take chairshots for decades with little to no ill effects, because they train and KNOW how to do these moves without actually hurting the other person, it's what sets them above so many others as great wrestlers in this business. If you can't take or deliver a chairshot properly then you as a wrestler are a liability in that ring, not the inanimate object. Get rid of the sloppy and poorly trained wrestlers and we wouldn't have this problem.

Dammit all if this isn't the best argument. Bottom line, make sure your wrestlers are trained to properly give and take safe chairshots. I don't blame McMahon for the ban, because I know he is going to do what is in the best interest of his stock holders, it is just sad to see the state of the business nowadays.

 

[D-Man]

Are you really having this argument with me D-Man? God damn right we should let people put drugs into their OWN body if they want to, I'm of the opinion that no body or government or authority should be able to tell you what you can or can't put into or do with your OWN body. Your body is the only fucking thing in this world that is 100% truly and always your property.

LOL... I already thought of that when I stated it. That's why I mentioned heroin and didn't just say "drugs"... because then I'd be guilty, too.

However, it doesn't mean that your theory on our "bodies being our temple" gives no one else the right to help protect our physical well-being. Welcome to the world we live in. Whether you disagree with it or not, others actually give a shit if you poison yourself.

Drugs are as addictive to you as pain is to pro-wrestlers. But just because it's self-inflicted doesn't make it ok to do.

You guys are VASTLY overrating the effects of chairshots.

Not if they are unprotected chair shots. I've taken them before. They fucking hurt. BAD. How these guys took so many of them over the years behind the power of the men that swung the chairs is beyond me. It causes trauma to the brain, neck, back and spine, all in one shot.

Again, if you know how to properly deliver and sell a chairshot, these problems don't exist. Stop hiring sloppy wrestlers. How many damn chairshots have Triple H, Shawn Michaels, and the Undertaker taken in their career? What about Ric Flair? Hulk Hogan? Yet all of these guys are still alive and kicking, several in great shape and still on top of the business. Because they know how to deliver the damn spot. If you don't know how to deliver the spot without hurting yourself, don't do it, simple as that.

I couldn't agree more. But that doesn't mean these guys are going to listen to reason.

Who would Mick Foley be if he didn't take stiff chair shots, have his ear ripped off, fall through and off cages, and bleed on a constant basis in his matches? He'd be a fucking nothing. That's why someone OUTSIDE of the wrestlers' personal judgement should be making this call for them. They feel they NEED to take a stiff chair shot to the head because they lack Triple H's, HBK's, and Undertaker's skills. That's both a bad career decision and a bad physical one. No one should allow them to make this call because none of them would give a shit and they would all continue to wrestle with a style that's detrimental towards their physcial health.

And that negates the great matches that have, how exactly? Excuse me if I want some variety in wrestling.

Did I say it "negates" them? Hell no. I still think hardcore massacre matches of the past have been awesome. But I do not feel they're ever "required" to have what you stated as being a "great" match.

As for variety, you're so bored with everything else that blood, excessive violence and gore quenches your personal thirst? To each his own, I guess.

Call me crazy, but I feel pro-wrestling has PLENTY of other ways to add "variety" to their matches besides those things.

Bullshit, that match was centered entirely around the finish with the chair shots, those chair shots managed to convey the new page that Austin had turned and set the stage for his character and the entire WWF main event scene for the rest of the damn year. Again, excuse me for wanting variety.

No, bullshit to you. The match was centered around two of (arguably) the most popular stars in pro-wrestling history colliding in a match that culminated on the greatest stage of them all. That match could've ended 90 other ways, and we would've been entertained by them all.

But I respect your opinion. I'm just waiting for the time that you actually give a fuck to respect mine.

I'm an adult, this "I watch for the STORIES!" bullshit hasn't been relevant to me since I was twelve years old D-Man. I love a good angle and story as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day I do not watch wrestling for the stories, I watch it for the WRESTLING. The in-ring product, which so happens to sometimes include dangerous spots like chair shots.

Agreed. Sometimes, when a man is thrown into the ring steps, I'm extra excited because violence is required in a pugilistic sport. But what's the difference if they take out chair shots TO THE HEAD? It's not like they're eliminating chair shots completely, or taking away the use of all other foreign objects. Jesus Christ, you act as if wrestling is going to change forever because of this one thing. Dude, chill out.

Variety D-Man. VARIETY. You can't have the same fucking match forever and ever and ever. You need hardcore things like chairshots and steel cages and gimmick matches to blow off feuds.

No, you need to become a good enough wrestler where you can entertain a crowd WITHOUT the use of chairshots to the head. There are PLENTY of other weapons that the WWE allows their wrestlers to use. Christ, let them use them!

Absolutely incorrect. Brain damage is caused by BOTCHED chair shots. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. Again, start teaching these wrestlers to properly deliver a chair shot and this problem goes away. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

Brain damage is caused by trauma to the head. You can lead a horse to water, but the mother fucker won't always drink. Then what? Fire them?

If you're seriously going to sit here and try to tell me that brain damage causes people to murder their family, I'm not sure what else I can say. Brain damage obviously had to do with Benoit's mental state, but you cannot connect those two things with anything other than the most circumstantial of evidence, which is what this is.

No, but I'll trust doctors and scientists that obviously know a ton more about this than you do. They ruled his murders as a result of brain damage caused by head trauma. He's taken a few stiff chair shots to the head in the past. Stiff chair shots to the head causes head trauma.

2 + 2 = 4