WMD : Official Spoiler Page

[Y-2-Jay]

What next, am I gonna find out that Osama is still alive

Have you not heard?

 

[The Bearded One]

I'm pissed.

 

[X]

Swagger cashed in the contract during the SmackDown taping on March 30, 2010, after the World Heavyweight Champion Chris Jericho had been speared by Edge. Swagger went on to defeat Jericho to win the World Heavyweight Championship for the first time. Following his championship win, Swagger began to develop a more serious persona: previously he had been known for doing pushups and beating his chest during his ring entrance. He successfully defended his championship against Edge and Jericho in a triple threat match on the April 16 episode of SmackDown, and against Randy Orton in an Extreme Rules match at the Extreme Rules pay-per-view

Well over a week since his World Heavyweight Championship win. I remember that match, It was the RAW where all the RAW wrestlers were trapped in Belfast and Taker came on to fill in. A near 16 minute match isn't a job. Its a back and forth hard-fought match, unless of course they went and did push-ups for 15 and half minutes. This was also after Swagger beat Chris Jericho and Edge at the same time in a triple threat match. Less then a week later he beat Randy Orton cleanly at Extreme Rules.

I remember Swaggers reign pretty vividly because it doesn't deserve half the shit people give it.

Losing clean as the champion = jobbing in my book. That match was not good at all either KB, it was a typical Undertaker bury job where he no sold most of Swagger's offense and then pinned him clean on TV on a totally throwaway show that meant nothing.

Swagger's reign was a joke, and if you click on that link from Thriller you'll see that. He lost clean to everyone from Undertaker to Orton to John Morrison as the world champ.

 

[klunderbunker]

15 minutes for a TV match seems a bit long for a bury job. Also, Taker is one of the guys bigger than the world champion. Swagger had no business being in the same ring with him.

 

[JGlass]

You're giving the intelligence and attention span of the average fans way too much credit. Things have happened in the past 365 days that have had people screaming from the rooftops that so and so is dead. This hasn't even aired yet. He's going to get a rematch and he's going to be in at least the upper midcard. This isn't the armageddon that you're making it out to be.

Have I said that this is the end of the line for Christian? No. In fact, I think I've made it pretty clear that I think he'll be in the main event for a while from here on out. I'm just saying he's not going to get another title reign.

Christian is nowhere near those two and I find Guerrero to be one of the most overrated main eventers of all time.

What does how they rank as performers have to do with what I said? The point is two guys who were midcarders like Christian were given the chance to do something with the belt, and Christian was not.

So you'd rather he be right back where he was before? As in no great emotional moment on Sunday? I find that hard to believe.

I suppose the old saying that it's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all comes to mind here, but it depends how you look at it. I'm happy Christian got his moment, yes, but this shitty title reign will forever be a black mark on the history of his career. I guess I'm going to need a visit from three ghosts to figure out which is best.

Not even close. Not as long as guys like Swagger are around.

Worst argument you've made yet. Please explain to me how a guy who got clean wins as champion, including one at a PPV, and defended the belt at three PPVs had a worse title reign than Christian, who lost the belt in his first match as champion.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Are you applying your jobbing theory to heel champions or champions in general?

 

[Thriller Ant]

15 minutes for a TV match seems a bit long for a bury job. Also, Taker is one of the guys bigger than the world champion. Swagger had no business being in the same ring with him.

Then you have a distraction or have Swagger lose by DQ or something. No matter how weak your champion is realistically, he's still the champion and should be booked as such. The Miz wasn't much higher up than Swagger was when he won, but he was treated as a champion and that, along with some excellent heel booking, resulted in a very good title reign. Here are Miz's results for comparison:
http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-miz-412.html

 

[klunderbunker]

Have I said that this is the end of the line for Christian? No. In fact, I think I've made it pretty clear that I think he'll be in the main event for a while from here on out. I'm just saying he's not going to get another title reign.

No but that's certainly how you're coming off. As you said you would rather the title win never have happened if this was the outcome. If that's the case, then his title reign was worthless, which no world title reign is.

What does how they rank as performers have to do with what I said? The point is two guys who were midcarders like Christian were given the chance to do something with the belt, and Christian was not.

Eddie and Benoit weren't midcarders. Well Eddie was but Benoit had multiple world title shots and high level feuds before he won the title. Christian came more out of nowhere than both of them to win it.

I suppose the old saying that it's better to have loved and lost than never loved at all comes to mind here, but it depends how you look at it. I'm happy Christian got his moment, yes, but this shitty title reign will forever be a black mark on the history of his career. I guess I'm going to need a visit from three ghosts to figure out which is best.

He won the world title. He's now a bigger star than he was before. He got the moment every Peep has been begging for for years. I completely fail to see how him losing the title could possibly take all that away.

Worst argument you've made yet. Please explain to me how a guy who got clean wins as champion, including one at a PPV, and defended the belt at three PPVs had a worse title reign than Christian, who lost the belt in his first match as champion.

Losing time after time would be a good place to start. Winning the title when someone else did the work for you would be a second step in that. Christian won the title in a fair match. Swagger didn't come close to that and had a reign where he was made to look like a joke.

 

[klunderbunker]

Are you applying your jobbing theory to heel champions or champions in general?

Not sure what you're asking.

 

[klunderbunker]

Then you have a distraction or have Swagger lose by DQ or something. No matter how weak your champion is realistically, he's still the champion and should be booked as such. The Miz wasn't much higher up than Swagger was when he won, but he was treated as a champion and that, along with some excellent heel booking, resulted in a very good title reign. Here are Miz's results for comparison:
http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/the-miz-412.html

Miz was WAY higher up than Swagger. Not even close.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Miz was WAY higher up than Swagger. Not even close.

They were both cocky, midcard heels. Miz was higher, I'm not arguing that, but not so much so that Swagger needed to be booked so radically different.

 

[klunderbunker]

Swagger had a total of nothing on his resume coming in. Miz held midcard titles, feuded with main event talent, multiple tag title wins and was made to look like a big time heel on Raw. When Swagger won MITB we collectively said: Really?

 

[Thriller Ant]

Swagger had a total of nothing on his resume coming in. Miz held midcard titles, feuded with main event talent, multiple tag title wins and was made to look like a big time heel on Raw. When Swagger won MITB we collectively said: Really?

Swagger was a major, if not the main, focus of ECW for a few months before it became a complete joke. Miz had more championship success, but Swagger wasn't as salvageable as you are making him out to sound. A couple simple booking changes take his joke of a reign and turn it into a respectable first title reign.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

My post was a reply to Xfear about losing clean being equal to jobbing.

 

[klunderbunker]

That's like saying Lucky Cannon is the focus of NXT so he should be US Champion.

Swagger's reign sucked, but that Taker match isn't as bad of a thing as it's being made out to be. Bad yes, horrible no. He shouldn't have been in there with Taker in the first place but they made it far better than it could have been.

 

[Thriller Ant]

That's like saying Lucky Cannon is the focus of NXT so he should be US Champion.

Swagger's reign sucked, but that Taker match isn't as bad of a thing as it's being made out to be. Bad yes, horrible no. He shouldn't have been in there with Taker in the first place but they made it far better than it could have been.

ECW wasn't nearly that bad and you know it. Take out the Taker match then. How can you explain him losing clean to John Morrison?

 

[Nate DaMac]

Punk lost clean to Morrison twice during one his reigns as well. Always weirded me out.

 

[klunderbunker]

Swagger held the ECW Title a year before the WHC. That's an eternity and you know it.

Oh his reign sucked. There was very little defense of what happened to him during his time with the title. Granted I've forgotten the point of this in the first place so that might change a few things.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Punk lost clean to Morrison twice during one his reigns as well. Always weirded me out.

Yeah, Punk's first reign was pretty terrible too. Jeff Hardy would fall under that category as well.

 

[X]

Okay so forget the 'Taker match then KB. Why again should Jack Swagger have been losing clean to John Morrison? World champ, losing clean to midcarders on TV.

 

[Thriller Ant]

Swagger held the ECW Title a year before the WHC. That's an eternity and you know it.

Oh his reign sucked. There was very little defense of what happened to him during his time with the title. Granted I've forgotten the point of this in the first place so that might change a few things.

I think I have too. It might have been something about how Swagger's reign sucked, but at least he got a chance at having a reign. Maybe?

 

[klunderbunker]

His reign sucked and was booked horribly. What are we even arguing again? Not sarcasm. I really don't remember.

 

[klunderbunker]

I think I have too. It might have been something about how Swagger's reign sucked, but at least he got a chance at having a reign. Maybe?

Maybe. I think I said Christian's reign wasn't as bad as his or maybe the opposite.

 

[Jay Sherman]

It's not a bad move just because Christian deserved more than this or that his fans believed he did. It's a terrible fucking move because they had the opportunity to get somebody NEW over at a time when they desperately need to do just that, and they totally screwed the pooch and buried Christian a few days later to Orton, completely killing all of his title win heat and knocking him back down to the upper midcard. And it's not like Christian couldn't run with the ball either, because they didn't even give him a fucking chance. I could understand losing it at the PPV to Orton, but 2 days later on TV? Way to take a golden opportunity to have a new main event babyface that the fans were actually hot as fuck for, and then completely squander that opportunity without even giving Christian a chance. Like Christian or hate him, they atleast owed him a fucking chance, he could have filled the gaping hole that Edge is leaving but instead they'll probably treat him like "former World champion" Jack Swagger, and nobody wins. Not Christian, not the fans, not the WWE, not Vince's bank account. We all lose.

Unbelievably STUPID move by the WWE here. I'm pissed, though I should know better at this point than to trust Vince.

I really could not have put it better. At the end of the day he was not even given a shot. Yeah same with Kane but he was given the title after how long? Exactly. Christian earned it. I have seen Orton as champ before and it was not bad. Its just begs whats the point when Christian could establish himself as a new permanent fixture in the main event scene.

 

[X]

His reign sucked and was booked horribly. What are we even arguing again? Not sarcasm. I really don't remember.

I don't know. You got all defensive about us complaining about Christian losing and then we started talking about Jack Swagger and now I don't know what the fuck we're even arguing about anymore.

I'm going to fix myself another drink and continue watching Wrestlemania 20.