Oh right, well let's look at Kane record following his run with Undertaker. At the start of 1999 he played second fiddle to Chyna, then he played second fiddle to x-Pac, then he was made to look a fool by X-Pac, then he truned heel and lost a fued to Undertaker, then to Jericho, then he was back with Undertaker, in the time from his run with Undertaker, where he was beat constantly by the way, until his win over Triple H his biggest victory was winning the Hardcore title at Wrestlemania. A truely magnificent career.
Well let's forget about Kane having a reign as world champion, albeit for one day. But most guys would sacrifice a one year IC title reign to hold the belt for 24 hours like Kane did. Again, he was over enough to be given the belt, for a short time but he is still a former champion.
Oh so it's ok for Big Show to squash someone in under 5 minutes if it's a comedy match, gotcha. No one believed that he would beat Undertaker, Taker was just back from a 10 month injury lay off and was having his first major one on one match and you expect me to buy that anybody thought Angle was going over?
And again just say you have a point rather than making a BS claim that Triple H didn't matter in that feud.
Yes it's okay, because the Big Show was billed as a 500 pound monster that just wanted to have fun. When he got pissed, he destroyed a guy that ,kayfabe, weighed near 300 pounds less then he did. There's nothing unbelievable about a guy that outweighs somene by twice as many pounds to destroy someone.
And no, Triple H was merely a player in it. Love Triangles work, no matter who is in it. See Ric Flair vs. Savage or Edge vs. Hardy for examples. The person attempting to steal the love interest away usually is the biggest player.
Again i don't see the point in bringing some thing like that up, especially something so inaccurate. We're discussing whether Triple H puts someone over, he put Benoit over, whether Benoit carried Triple H is irrelevant.
Benoit was already over with the crowd, see Royal Rumble 2003 and 2004 for reference. Tapping out and losing a match is not the same as putting someone over.
Since when do you have to be destroyed to put somebody over? Shelton was a nothing face before he beat Triple H, after he beat Triple H he was massively over, that is what matters, that he got over not how he got over.
Losing to someone isn't putting someone over. Plenty of guys have lost, and not put someone over. When you put someone over, you are putting them "over" as in, they are above you. Benjamin was never seen as a legit threat to Triple H, regardless of him winning matches with roll ups. He got crowd heat because of it, but he didn't become a major player until his spectacular match with Orton for the IC title, that match solidified Benjamin as a singles star.
Triple H doesn't lose crediblity ever, he's at that level now. And how exactly is it a reaction of you got lucky, how's it lucky if you reverse a guys finisher into a pin, that's not luck that means you scouted him and then out wrestled him.
So if Triple H doesn't lose credibility anymore, how come his losses come after either being attacked by multiple guys, or guys winning with luck. If he won't lose any credibility and isn't afraid to "put someone over" why couldn't he have laid down and let Hardy hit a Swanton on him? That would have made Hardy a legit threat to the title. Little Jeff Hardy beats up Triple H long enough to keep him on the mat for the Swanton, and then keeps him down for three. Works a lot better then reversal and pin.
So what you're saying is that Triple H out hardcored the hardcore legend? Then Orton out hardcored the guy who out hardcored the hardcore legend? See I knew you would bring that up that's why I mentioned it. Since Triple H beat Cactus Jack in 2000 he has developed a repuattion of being a tough bastard, he has taking on the best in hardcore style matches, beating such greats as Stone Cold, Chris Jericho, Goldberg and Shawn Michaels in those kind of enviroments, so that means that Orton succedded where a lot of legends had failed.
No, Triple H has been built around the Cerebral Assassin gimmick. He is a thinking mans wrestler. He outsmarts you, not out hardcores you. Nobody sees Triple H as a hardcore wrestler. He makes guys make mistakes. It fit perfectly with Foley, because the Jack character gets the abyss tunnel vision in causing pain. A guy that is one dimensional in his thought process can be beaten buy a thinker.
So it was only a ten minute match he had with Umaga? So that was the only advantage he had over him? And you make it sound like Umaga was pretty much a push over? People seem to forget that that was also Orton second match. And I have to ask why is it you act like Sheltons and Hardys victories over Triple H were a fluke because of the roll up finishes yet act like when Triple H rolled up Orton it was conclusive? At least Triple H had time to prepare for those matches whereas Orton had none.
And as said before, it took Orton several finishing maneuver attempts, multiple weapon uses, and Trips was still getting up at 9. I never said it was a conclusive victory, it was a stupid, pointless victory. Why not simply have Triple H vs. Umaga and the winner faces Randy Orton to determine the new champion? Why derail 6 months of building Orton up as a legit heel, only to have him lose, that title within 20 minutes? Why, it gets Trips another title run, makes him out to be bigger then Orton, and when he loses to Orton later in the night after beating the Samoan Bulldozer, his credibility isn't lost.
Surely beating Triple H clean two straight PPVs gets him over as a legit champion? And i find it funny that a minute ago you were going on about how being an underdog against Cactus Jack in his kind of match helped get Triple H over, yet you think the same kind of thing, making cena an underdog in Triple H's kind of match, a wrestling match [it was billed that way away] is a bad thing.
Also i'm not sure how he excatly broke kayfabe saying Cena isn't a good wrestler since Cena had always been protrayed as a brawler. And how exactly was Triple H loseing popularity.
I also find it funny that you insult smarks, I find them annoying, but you are one? You're hatred of Triple H is based on internet reports.
And like many others, you assume just because it's on the internet, it can't be true. Gotcha. Where there's smoke, there's fire. When multiple different guys report over nearly a decade, when former wrestlers take pop shots at the guy, when our own Kevin Kelly bashes the guy, that's not enough for some people to accept that Triple H pulls strings back stage.
If his attempt to make John Cena was vein, how did he become a bigger a star? Surely you realised that Triple H tapping to Cena at Wrestlemania 22 was always intended to be a passing of the torch.
So Vince doesn't want Cena jobbing to Triple H because he's a bigger draw? Fair enough maybe that's why Triple H didn't job to RVD and Booker T.
The problem was, Triple H was the only one not to realize taht before heading into WM 22 Cena was already a bigger name then Triple H. Triple H simply did that to feed his own ego. That way, in his own mind he thinks he created Cena.
RVD and Booker were getting plenty of cheers on Raw. RVD especially was the third most over guy on the entire roster in 2001, and he was supposed to be a heel, so if that's not worthy of at least a shot, I don't know what is. Instead, they were derailed because they were not far enough removed from their ECW and WCW stigma, and god forbid if a WWE world title was held by someone from a lesser company.
Except no one knew that Triple H had a groin injury unless you read the internet and the reason he kept the title for one month of having that injury was because Goldberg was also injured which was the whole reason for the elimination chamber at Summerslam.
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No, the attire change or him not wrestling for weeks on end would never have given away that the guy had an injury. So again, why not drop the title to someone else that was healthy instead of blowing an Elimination Chamber match that sells itself without gimmicks?
Actually they didn't have plenty of legit guys to carry the belt, first of Goldberg was the most over face over face on raw and it was clear they were building Goldberg up to be the guy to take the belt of Triple H. The Booker T/ Triple H fued was built around Triple H putting Booker over, everybody could see that, then they sign Goldberg and Triple H wins. That's not a concidence, not backstage politics it was because they thought Goldberg was going to get them major ratings and they needed a dominate heel champion to job to him and guess what you can't be a dominate heel champion if you don't dominate the championship.
Fair enough, but Kane would have fit the roll perfectly after Triple tore his groin. Kane was over more then he had ever been in his career at that point, and for Goldberg to face a guy that was setting people on fire and just destroying people at that point would have been just fine as well.
