RAW LD remix ft. Timbaland

[KillBill]

Ok, what did I miss? I started the thread, then when out tostart parttying the nite before my bday, so I watched Raw when I got home. I wanted to get people excited, and 70 pages later, here we are.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Basically it consisted of everyone marking out for Bret's return with the exception of Sid...who threw toys out of his crib throughout the entire broadcast.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

The people in this thread bragging about how the WWE is going to destroy TNA like that's a good thing need to wake up and realize that TNA being competitive is what the pro wrestling industry need to happen as a whole.
Vince usually gets the most creative when he's being chased or getting his ass kicked in the ratings, so unless you think Raw has been quality programming lately, I'd suggest you give TNA a shot.

You're completely misunderstanding the point. We NEED creativity and competition in the wrestling industry. The problem is, with how TNA is going, they may have to make a switch back to Thursdays in order to keep up, because they're going to effectively cut their ratings in half in their first Monday show ever. This is not a good thing. Hogan isn't as much of a draw as Bret Hart is because people are STILL sick of Hogan. He's ALL over TV.

I mean, I do feel bad for the guy, his wife being a complete and utter cunt and all, but he really should retire from wrestling for good.

If TNA seriously thinks they're going to get people to switch over to their show after the bomb-shell that was Raw last night, then I don't see them lasting very long in this "war."

And this is not a good thing, for either company.

Once TNA can come up with a product that CAN effectively compete with the WWE, then I would be happy. Until then, all I see is a suicidal company.

 

[KillBill]

Basically it consisted of everyone marking out for Bret's return with the exception of Sid...who threw toys out of his crib throughout the entire broadcast.

I know, I was kidding. I went back and read the whole LD cause I had nothing better to do on my Bday, but don't tell anyone lol.

 

[Belladonna29]

You're completely misunderstanding the point. We NEED creativity and competition in the wrestling industry. The problem is, with how TNA is going, they may have to make a switch back to Thursdays in order to keep up, because they're going to effectively cut their ratings in half in their first Monday show ever. This is not a good thing. Hogan isn't as much of a draw as Bret Hart is because people are STILL sick of Hogan. He's ALL over TV.

I mean, I do feel bad for the guy, his wife being a complete and utter cunt and all, but he really should retire from wrestling for good.

If TNA seriously thinks they're going to get people to switch over to their show after the bomb-shell that was Raw last night, then I don't see them lasting very long in this "war."

And this is not a good thing, for either company.

Once TNA can come up with a product that CAN effectively compete with the WWE, then I would be happy. Until then, all I see is a suicidal company.

I understand what you're saying, and trust me, I'm far from being a fan of Hogan. But just because I don't like him doesn't mean he isn't important to a huge set of nostalgic wrestling fans. In fact, as much as it annoys me to say it, he's probably more important to plenty of fans than Bret Hart, which is a shame, but it's not a lie. He's definitely been in the public eye more the Hart has the past decade, but it goes both ways.

While Hogan being around makes his 'debut' less special, his exposure could make him appear to be way more relevant than Hart to the casual fan. At this point, I'd guess there's more wrestling fans under the age of 13 who know about Hulk Hogan than Bret Hart.
You could say Hart's lack of exposure will make his re-debut a special occasion. Or you may have to deal with a newer audience that are shockingly apathetic about the arrival of this dude who is not Jeff Hardy.
See what a mean?

And while I'm excited to hear Bret Hart is returning just as most of use are, I'm not going to go on a fangirl attack about.

First of all, Bret coming back is great, but it was far from a 'bomb-shell'.
Anyone with internet access has known for weeks that Bret was coming back in some capacity; and the biggest rumor was that it would be to host on January 4th--and that's what happened. So all this talk about TNA 'sh*tting' their pants and TNA fans now flocking to watch Raw because of their 'sudden' announcing is honestly an exaggeration.

And quite frankly, while it's smart of the WWE to use Bret as the draw from nostalgic wrestling fans to counter Hogan going to TNA, I think the perception that the Bret will draw an immense amount of casual fan attention isn't a definitive conclusion at this point.

I know the IWC wants to project their excitement about Bret's return on all wrestling fans, but were only a fraction of the fans who watch Raw.
Remember, the average fan the WWE is catering to nowadays is a tween
who probably wasn't watching or even born during Hart's heyday.
While some younger fans know their wrestling history, I doubt the majority do, so assuming that their going to tune in just to see Hart might be expecting too much. That being said, if the storyline is done well, who cares how many people are watching?

Anyway, I think asking TNA to wait till their 'strong enough' to take on the WWE is actually a way more naive more than just attempting to face them, head-on right now.

And here's why.

TNA as a whole, is way too far behind the WWE in turns of history and name-brand recognition to catch up on their own terms.
TNA has been around for 7-8 years now, and hav probably peaked in terms of growing their own fanbase on their own terms.
If they want to get any farther at this point, their going to have to play the WWE's game.
And at the point, no one is expecting them to win, they just have to prove that their willing to do it.
They obviously draw smaller crowds, get way less PPV buys than they should and have no where near the production values of the WWE.
Looking at these specific problems ( which tend to be the biggest problems TNA has ), they appear to be symptoms of an acute lack of exposure to the casual audience.

As I said before, because the majority of TNA fans are probably smarks, who are only a fraction of the pro wrestling fanbase.
TNA really needs to make themselves available to the casual wrestling fans of the past decade who have grown up only watching the WWE and have developed a brand-loyalty to that wrestling company alone.
Drawing publicity by going head-to-head with Raw is a good way to start doing this.
They're not going to accomplish anything waiting around for people to just 'know' who they are. They've got to make some moves to show that despite their shortcomings, they've serious about competition.
And with the product Raw had become since truly going PG, why not give it a shot?

Call me a purist, but no matter how much pomp-and-circumstance the WWE an put forth, nothing is better than a great story accompanied by a better match. As long as TNA has the talent to delivery that, and gives them a stage to delivery it, they're not being suicidal in my opinion.
Just realists taking a calculated risk.
TNA has a loyal enough fanbase that even is they get hammered on the 4th, they'll just go back to Thursdays for while, keep getting their 1.0-1.2 ratings and try again later.
Who knows what will happen if they actually sustain or again viewers next week.
That's the fun part, of course, speculating on what may happen.
Let me remind everyone that Bret Hart isn't going to be on camera for the the entire 2-hours of Raw. Their still probably going to have a Diva's match, there's still a possibility of Hornswoggle being in a segment.
And when this happens, if someone changes the channel to see Hulk Hogan and catches AJ Style fighting Desmond Wolfe or Sarita fighting Hamada, perhaps if will draw some curiosity.
That's pretty much what TNA is betting on at this point. They've got only their pride to lose in this, and pride can be regained, so I say go for it.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

While Hogan being around makes his 'debut' less special, his exposure could make him appear to be way more relevant than Hart to the casual fan. At this point, I'd guess there's more wrestling fans under the age of 13 who know about Hulk Hogan than Bret Hart.
You could say Hart's lack of exposure will make his re-debut a special occasion. Or you may have to deal with a newer audience that are shockingly apathetic about the arrival of this dude who is not Jeff Hardy.
See what a mean?

But understand what audience both companies are trying to attract. It seems to me that TNA is trying to attract a more adult audience as well as hardcore wrestling fans, but they're bringing back two people that a. everyone is sick of, and b. ruined a good portion of NWA history and almost succeeding in ruining the wrestling industry in its entirety if the WWE weren't around to pick up the pieces.

The WWE doesn't seem to be interested in keeping their main audience - they already have that audience. And it's not like they're driving their current audience away. I mean, a casual or younger fan is going to look at this as just another Raw guest host. So it's not alienating them. But what the WWE is going to do is get back a lot of the hardcore fans of wrestling that had jumped the ship over to TNA while TNA is busy preparing for another war that they won't win with Hogan.

Hogan may be a draw, but I've already mentioned before that it's simply a novelty. He's not entertaining anymore.

First of all, Bret coming back is great, but it was far from a 'bomb-shell'.
Anyone with internet access has known for weeks that Bret was coming back in some capacity; and the biggest rumor was that it would be to host on January 4th--and that's what happened. So all this talk about TNA 'sh*tting' their pants and TNA fans now flocking to watch Raw because of their 'sudden' announcing is honestly an exaggeration.

See my previous point. WWE is trying to attract their hardcore fans while not alienating their current generation of fans. This WAS a bombshell. Someone who watches ONLY TNA and not a lot of WWE probably didn't know Bret Hart was coming back for the 4th and only heard about it when it was made official on Monday.

And quite frankly, while it's smart of the WWE to use Bret as the draw from nostalgic wrestling fans to counter Hogan going to TNA, I think the perception that the Bret will draw an immense amount of casual fan attention isn't a definitive conclusion at this point.

They're not trying to draw casual fans. They already have casual fans.

TNA really needs to make themselves available to the casual wrestling fans of the past decade who have grown up only watching the WWE and have developed a brand-loyalty to that wrestling company alone.

You're right, but you're going to see their ratings drop quick when the novelty of Hogan wears off, and they realize he's just another old guy trying to make YET ANOTHER wrestling comeback when he simply can't anymore. His body won't be able to take it. And really, no casual fan is going to be interested in seeing Hogan, the manager who Hulks Up outside of the ring.

And with the product Raw had become since truly going PG, why not give it a shot?

I have a feeling the WWE may end this PG-rating very soon, or at least stretch the PG boundaries as much as they can in order to effectively compete with an edgier product. I mean, they've already started with the gay jokes and the completely careless short jokes (which, granted, probably wasn't PG-13, but offensive enough to get some ads pulled).

Just realists taking a calculated risk.

So you don't think going Mondays without adequate production value or decent ratings is completely reckless no matter how you stretch it, even with Hogan?

TNA has a loyal enough fanbase that even is they get hammered on the 4th, they'll just go back to Thursdays for while, keep getting their 1.0-1.2 ratings and try again later.

That's what I hope will happen. I hope the Monday show is just TNA's way of simply testing the waters a bit, just to see how their ratings will do... not that they should expect much, what with their hardcore fans switching to see Bret, and possibly, POSSIBLY a few casual fans going over to TNA to see Hogan, if they're even interesting in watching a show that's not the WWE.

Let me remind everyone that Bret Hart isn't going to be on camera for the the entire 2-hours of Raw. Their still probably going to have a Diva's match, there's still a possibility of Hornswoggle being in a segment.

Actually, I heard his contract may last for several weeks, and if things go well enough, he may be on for a while. This may not be JUST a guest host thing.