**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

That's interesting, could you elaborate on that please? You see, whenever I check the ratings, Monday Night Raw is regularly in the Top 5 of cable TV ratings. In fact, they finished second this week.

Source: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/20...ut-on-top-closely-followed-by-wwe-raw/122195/

Additionally, PPV revenue per show has remained consistent over the last several years, which is amazing considering the downturn in the worldwide economy.

Source: http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=207532

So when you say "poor ratings and buyrates", where are you getting your information? I get my information from Nielsen ratings and WWE's reports to the SEC. Where do you get yours?

On the contrary, you're the one who seems to be having trouble thinking things through. How can a wrestling promotion "shove" someone down fans throats, when that someone accounts for almost 25% of the company's revenue?

Source: http://mmapayout.com/2012/01/wwes-john-cena-brand-worth-106-million/

Don't blame the WWE for promoting John Cena, blame wrestling fans for their constant purchasing of John Cena related pro wrestling shows and merchandise.

I fail to see your point. Why do people think the WWE cares about John Cena getting cheered? They don't. They are perfectly happy with his character, as long as it's making money. You keep talking about what the fans want, but it's obvious what the fans want. They want John Cena. And nearly 25% of the money they spend goes to supporting John Cena.


It's called logical thinking, based upon facts. Using only this one post of yours as a guide, I can see why it would confuse you.

I would like to thank Sly for putting this in a way that anybody smart enough to be able to spell their own name can understand it. Very well said, Sly. Very well said indeed.

People saying that John Cena is being crammed down our throats is missing the ever growing point... My children LOVE John Cena. They hear the intro from the other room for RAW or Smackdown and BAM! They magically appear in the room. Cena walks out and their hands go up. Cena may not be popular with every demographic, but he is making them money with somebody. and that is all that matters. I won't lie, I like John Cena too. Ratings will never be what they were during the attitude era. Never again. People need to stop comparing and embrace the current product... or change the channel. What people also fail to realize is that with the introduction of DVR, people are not watching these shows when they are live on TV. I am one of those people.

 

[The Goonster]

I fail to see your point. Why do people think the WWE cares about John Cena getting cheered? They don't. They are perfectly happy with his character, as long as it's making money. You keep talking about what the fans want, but it's obvious what the fans want.

You claim WWE dosen't care about whether Cena is cheered or not, but the fact of the matter is, it appears that they do and, it is shown through their efforts to get the crowd to sympathize with him leading up to his match with The Rock. If it wasn't blatantly obvious in WWE's pathetic attempts to garner sympathy for John such as through his cheesy nonsensical storyline with Eve, or having him break kayfabe to make Rock look like a phoney with notes on his hand, this website as well as others, have already released stories that acknowledge the company's desire to try to win Cena support in what is likely to be a very large pro-Rocky crowd.

This report from this very own website does demonstrate WWE's effort to manipulate the crowd reaction in order to keep their top star from getting embarrassed.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/250495-report-backstage-news-on-cenarock-at-last-mondays-raw

"WWE's goal for this past week's RAW was to give John Cena the upper-hand, according to F4Wonline.com. John Cena's time on the mic, what he would say and The Rock's reaction was all intended for Cena to win that round. WWE officials are determined for the crowd to be split 50/50 at WrestleMania 28 in Miami, which WWE knows right now will require Cena to look stronger and turn some of the crowd to join his side."

That doesn't sound like a company who could care less about their top star's reaction.

It is obvious what the fans want, whether Cena is a face or heel, it does not matter, the fans want him to tweak his tired and outdated character. What other reason would he be received so poorly every where he goes. Cena may produce a lot of revenue, but he would probably produce even more if he appealed to a larger audience. Children have been a wrestling demographic forever, and top stars have been switched from good guy to bad, many times over.

There is little proof to demonstrate that changing up or turning a major star heel has caused children or certain demographics to stop watching. As far as merchandise sales, it is likely there may be a slight drop in revenue, but this issue can be canceled out by the new fans a star can receive through a turn or change in character.

 

[Slyfox696]

You claim WWE dosen't care about whether Cena is cheered or not, but the fact of the matter is, it appears that they do and, it is shown through their efforts to get the crowd to sympathize with him leading up to his match with The Rock. If it wasn't blatantly obvious in WWE's pathetic attempts to garner sympathy for John such as through his cheesy nonsensical storyline with Eve, or having him break kayfabe to make Rock look like a phoney with notes on his hand, this website as well as others, have already released stories that acknowledge the company's desire to try to win Cena support in what is likely to be a very large pro-Rocky crowd.

This report from this very own website does demonstrate WWE's effort to manipulate the crowd reaction in order to keep their top star from getting embarrassed.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/250495-report-backstage-news-on-cenarock-at-last-mondays-raw

"WWE's goal for this past week's RAW was to give John Cena the upper-hand, according to F4Wonline.com. John Cena's time on the mic, what he would say and The Rock's reaction was all intended for Cena to win that round. WWE officials are determined for the crowd to be split 50/50 at WrestleMania 28 in Miami, which WWE knows right now will require Cena to look stronger and turn some of the crowd to join his side."

That doesn't sound like a company who could care less about their top star's reaction.

It is obvious what the fans want, whether Cena is a face or heel, it does not matter, the fans want him to tweak his tired and outdated character. What other reason would he be received so poorly every where he goes. Cena may produce a lot of revenue, but he would probably produce even more if he appealed to a larger audience. Children have been a wrestling demographic forever, and top stars have been switched from good guy to bad, many times over.

There is little proof to demonstrate that changing up or turning a major star heel has caused children or certain demographics to stop watching. As far as merchandise sales, it is likely there may be a slight drop in revenue, but this issue can be canceled out by the new fans a star can receive through a turn or change in character.

Wow, well if the WZ main page says it's so, it must be true... That must be why Ezekial Jackson got such a great push at the Royal Rumble, right?

The fact is the WWE DOESN'T care. If they truly want a 50/50 split, it's only to add to the atmosphere at Wrestlemania, not because they care if Cena gets cheered. The WWE has made a lot of money on Cena getting the reaction he does, why would they change it? If the WWE cared, why would they put him against Punk in Punk's hometown, or against Rock in Rock's hometown? It's just stupid to think the WWE actually gives a damn whether or not people cheer Cena.

The fact is wrestling fans AREN'T tired of John Cena. Since Cena came onto the main-event scene, merchandising sales have gone way up, revenue has gone way up, average event attendance has gone way up and profits have gone way up. Wrestling fans are not tired of John Cena, they want Cena more than they want any other WWE wrestler. Why? Because he's damn good, and he's incredibly unique. If you turn Cena, without have a great reason to do so, then Cena is no longer unique, he's just another guy on the show.

People keep trying to fix something that isn't broken. Cena is without a doubt the best worker on the roster, and trying to change him makes absolutely no sense right now.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

Wow, well if the WZ main page says it's so, it must be true... That must be why Ezekial Jackson got such a great push at the Royal Rumble, right?

The fact is the WWE DOESN'T care. If they truly want a 50/50 split, it's only to add to the atmosphere at Wrestlemania, not because they care if Cena gets cheered. The WWE has made a lot of money on Cena getting the reaction he does, why would they change it? If the WWE cared, why would they put him against Punk in Punk's hometown, or against Rock in Rock's hometown? It's just stupid to think the WWE actually gives a damn whether or not people cheer Cena.

The fact is wrestling fans AREN'T tired of John Cena. Since Cena came onto the main-event scene, merchandising sales have gone way up, revenue has gone way up, average event attendance has gone way up and profits have gone way up. Wrestling fans are not tired of John Cena, they want Cena more than they want any other WWE wrestler. Why? Because he's damn good, and he's incredibly unique. If you turn Cena, without have a great reason to do so, then Cena is no longer unique, he's just another guy on the show.

People keep trying to fix something that isn't broken. Cena is without a doubt the best worker on the roster, and trying to change him makes absolutely no sense right now.

Again, Sly makes a very good point. This is what I keep trying to get across to all of the friends I have that cannot understand WHY Cena isn't a heel yet. Hell, when I was at 'MANIA 26, That crowd couldn't have been more split in their "LETS GO CENA"..."CENA SUCKS!" Chant. Its good for business, especially in an era where people think they're smart for reading the "sheets". You're going to hate Cena or you're going to love Cena, but you're going to feel SOMETHING for Cena. If you're not buying a "RISE ABOVE HATE" shirt, You're buying a "CENA SUCKS" shirt... Either way, your opinion matters in the form of $$$$.

 

[DirtyJosé]

And that's really what it comes down to. He gets an emotional response out of people, and bottom line that's pretty much the job description. People are going to buy WrestleMania to either see Cena beat that phony Rock, or see The Rock whup that pansy Cena's ass. Either way, Cena will be making them millions, as he has done for years.

If you people are really tired of Cena that much, you should be directing your effort and attention to the guys you do like, and supporting them. Buy their stuff. Talk about them. The more you focus on Cena, the more power you give him.

 

[The Goonster]

[QUOTE="The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz;3753996]Again, Sly makes a very good point. This is what I keep trying to get across to all of the friends I have that cannot understand WHY Cena isn't a heel yet. Hell, when I was at 'MANIA 26, That crowd couldn't have been more split in their "LETS GO CENA"..."CENA SUCKS!" Chant. Its good for business, especially in an era where people think they're smart for reading the "sheets". You're going to hate Cena or you're going to love Cena, but you're going to feel SOMETHING for Cena. If you're not buying a "RISE ABOVE HATE" shirt, You're buying a "CENA SUCKS" shirt... Either way, your opinion matters in the form of $$$$.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so why is there a problem turning him heel ? If the crowd is already mixed and WWE has no issue with that type of reaction, then I fail to see how turning him would be a problem.

If he was to turn heel, he would still have 50% of the crowd behind him, and the other half rooting against him, the only difference is the pro-cena and anti-cena fans would switch roles. So there would still be people buying his merchandise on both sides.

The big difference here is that Cena would finally be doing something different. In a business where every character goes through changes John Cena has primarily remained the same for a very, very long time.

I am not discouting what John has done for the business, but I think people are overlooking the fact that WWE could stand to widen its audience, by bringing in new fans who, would like his new character, or old fans, who had given up on the program because they grew sick of him.

Who says trying something different would be a bad thing ? If it was received poorly the WWE could turn him back into a face with a snap of the fingers, and fans would react accordingly. Every major WWE star has turned over the years, even Rock or Austin.

This isn't something new. Changes are necessary to keep a character fresh and appealing. Look how often Undertaker has changed up his character. His character has always been loved. It wasn't broken as you say, but he has changed throughout the years multiple teams.

Imagine if WCW had never had changed Hogan. There were obviously people such as those here, who were terrified of the thought of turning him heel. They knew Hogan was a big star and even if his character was getting dull, he would still be selling lots of merchandise.

Hogan was a huge draw, and pretty much sold himself. WCW realized it was possible they could lose fans and it could turn out poorly, but they took a chance, and it turned the wrestling world upside down.

WCW was listening to what the audience was saying. Hogan had been getting mixed reactions for most of the year prior to his turn, and WCW did what WWE and every program does when fans react a certain way, they give the fans what they ask for. We already know what Cena is capable of as a face, we have seen it for nearly a decade.

The kids have gotten more than their fair share. By ignoring other portions of its fans, WWE is halting the growth of its audience. Who is to say, John wouldn't bring in even more revenue as a heel. It would sure get people interested to see what he would next and it would be something fresh for a change.

 

[DirtyJosé]

The fallacy of your argument:

1: You assume that growth is somehow prevented with Cena as is. This is laughable. The trends in wrestling had started downward long before Cena arrived, and have more or less stayed where they were before and after his rise to the top. Wrestling just isn't cool or exciting to the mainstream crowd anymore. A huge part of the spike of the 90's was the shift to "hardcore"; angst ridden teen boys were able to tune in and see violence of a type they had never seen before. Once that shock value wore off, it could never be recaptured again. The only change a heel Cena would for sure bring is that it MIGHT please his naysayers, who are the type to keep watching regardless.

2: You assume also that Cena would be able to maintain his top status, and thus retain his power to draw money in, as a heel. You write off any possible risk as being easily written out, but don't you think that would be doing damage to the Cena brand? Say he goes heel and it's a flop; fans who pay up cash for Cena gear and to see Cena wrestle suddenly have no interest. The switch back would only further upset the "old school" crowd who would cry of weak writing and WCW/TNA style swerves. You cite Hogan as "turning the world upside down" as proof that this will work, but again you make an assumption: that the nWo angle was so huge because of Hogan. I disagree. Nash and Hall had already stirred up the pot before Hogan was even involved. Whether WCW did so intentionally or not, and whether they owned up to it or not, Nash and Hall were able to work up fans with the notion that the WWF was invading. THIS was the main draw of the nWo, not Hogan. Hogan's turn was a cherry on top that wasn't necessary for the angle's success. Insert any number of ex-WWF performers into his spot and it would've worked fine.

Cena is fine as he is. You people keep watching. You people keep talking about him. Like I said earlier, can't you guys grasp onto anything else? Punk managed to get over by taking attention away from Cena. Follow that lead. Cheer on other guys. Talk about other guys. Those who chant "Cena sucks" should instead be putting that energy into getting the guys they do like over.

 

[The Goonster]

Again, why are we acting as though this situation is something unique, and changing stars from good to bad has never happened before. Every major star in WWE history, whether it be The Rock, Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, the Undertaker, you name him, has turned several times or at least once in their career.

All of these stars created great interest and generated lots of money. WWE calculated the risk of losing profit in turning stars like Rock or Austin, however they realized they had to spark new interest, new ideas and new story lines from time to time.

If it didn't work out, then okay that's the nature of running a business, in order to reap greater rewards, sometimes you have to take risks. Each time a star turned heel, and it turned out poorly though, fans did not leave them in droves, or stop spending large amounts of money on them.

A character who changes with the times is only the natural order of progression. After Cena, having been champion for nearly a year in his first go around in 2005, began to get booed for whatever reason.The natural order of things, and the way WWE has always done business is that they respond and act upon how the fans react. The natural order of things is that Cena should have gone heel based off the crowd reaction. The WWE, however went against the desire of the fans and that is why Cena is responded to negatively everywhere despite being a babyface.

The idea that they solely turn people based off merchandise sales has little basis in fact.The Rock and Austin sold tons of merchandise, and were not getting booed anywhere near the amount Cena is, if not at all. WWE had no reason, as you have suggested to turn them, and yet they did several times anyway, because they had to spark new interest as the time went by.

The one argument that holds some water is that there is no other star big enough to fill Cena's void currently, although its arguable Orton could, and CM Punk has apparently become one of WWE's top selling acts. The key word, however is current. Perhaps it doesn't make much sense at this moment, however, there are no reasons WWE could not have altered his character at least once in the last 6 or 7 years.

There is no reason WWE in the past could not have taken Edge, Triple H or Randy Orton for example, and made them babyfaces to feud against Cena. Maybe they would not produce as much revenue while the feud was ongoing, but again as I have already shown WWE did not fear altering the character of their top stars in the past, despite the fear of losing some profits.

Again, uncharacteristically WWE has not responded to the wishes of the crowd, which is the natural order of how business progresses, and that is why Cena is received so poorly by so many.

Maybe it does not bother WWE that much that he is booed, but it is obvious that they have over the years, attempted to do things to win him more fans, or guilt people, like in recent months into accepting or liking the nasty food they don't want to eat. So in that sense WWE is trying to influence or force the crowd into accepting what they are pushing, taking on the attitude as though, this is how we want to run the show and if you don't like it, too bad.

Changing a character does not alienate fans, but their approach ignoring a segment of their audience does. Maybe some will keep watching anyway, but there are segments out there who aren't for reasons such as this. I myself barely watch the programming anymore for this very reason. I don't think it is good business to outright ignore some of your customers.

 

[Slyfox696]

Again, why are we acting as though this situation is something unique

Because it is. There's never been a #1 guy get this kind of reaction in pro wrestling, for this long of a time.

and changing stars from good to bad has never happened before.

Of course that's happened. But John Cena no longer fits under "good" or "bad". Cena is Cena...he does what he does, and if you like it, you cheer, if you don't, you boo. He's a face to women, children and men like me, and he's a heel to teenage boys who rant in their mother's basement about how he's not Attitude Era.

Every major star in WWE history, whether it be The Rock, Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, the Undertaker, you name him, has turned several times or at least once in their career.

As has Cena.

WWE calculated the risk of losing profit in turning stars like Rock or Austin, however they realized they had to spark new interest, new ideas and new story lines from time to time.

But turning Cena heel only limits the storylines you can do. The way Cena is now, he can work against faces or heels.

If it didn't work out, then okay that's the nature of running a business, in order to reap greater rewards, sometimes you have to take risks.

No offense, but that's stupid. When you have one product contributing to nearly 25% of your yearly revenue, you don't change what's working. Instead, you try to bring your other products along to get them making you more money.

Each time a star turned heel, and it turned out poorly though, fans did not leave them in droves, or stop spending large amounts of money on them.

Austin turned heel at WM 17, and ratings never did anything but go down until Cena became a main-eventer.

A character who changes with the times is only the natural order of progression.

Cena's character has changed tremendously over the last seven years. It hasn't been a radical transformation like you see with undercard workers, but Cena now is not the same Cena who won the title at Wrestlemania 21.

The natural order of things, and the way WWE has always done business is that they respond and act upon how the fans react. The natural order of things is that Cena should have gone heel based off the crowd reaction.

But they didn't, and it's done nothing but make them piles of money ever since.

The idea that they solely turn people based off merchandise sales has little basis in fact.The Rock and Austin sold tons of merchandise, and were not getting booed anywhere near the amount Cena is, if not at all. WWE had no reason, as you have suggested to turn them, and yet they did several times anyway, because they had to spark new interest as the time went by.

But each time they did, they had someone else to handle the main-event. When Austin turned, the WWE had Rock. When Rock turned, they had Lesnar, Hogan and Austin. The WWE doesn't have that top flight worker to take over in Cena's place. I've said for a while if you put Punk's promo ability in Orton's body and wrestling style, then you'd have a guy to take over for Cena. But the WWE doesn't, so there's no reason to turn Cena.

The one argument that holds some water is that there is no other star big enough to fill Cena's void currently, although its arguable Orton could, and CM Punk has apparently become one of WWE's top selling acts. The key word, however is current. Perhaps it doesn't make much sense at this moment, however, there are no reasons WWE could not have altered his character at least once in the last 6 or 7 years.

Hadn't read this before I mentioned it above.

There is no reason WWE in the past could not have taken Edge, Triple H or Randy Orton for example, and made them babyfaces to feud against Cena. Maybe they would not produce as much revenue

Then why would they do it?

I'm sorry, you're not looking at this realistically. You want the WWE to take their biggest cash cow, who has an incredibly unique persona, and use a cookie cutter booking tactic which could cost the WWE a LOT of revenue, just because that's the way it used to be done. Perhaps if you're ever a business manager someday, you'll understand the silliness of that statement.

Maybe it does not bother WWE that much that he is booed, but it is obvious that they have over the years, attempted to do things to win him more fans, or guilt people, like in recent months into accepting or liking the nasty food they don't want to eat. So in that sense WWE is trying to influence or force the crowd into accepting what they are pushing.

The WWE has done no such thing. The WWE has put Cena into feud which will draw money. They try to manipulate the feuds to draw the most money they can. It has nothing to do with getting people to like Cena, it has everything to do with drawing money.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

I guess the most basic and simple way I can put this, is by agreeing with Sly that Cena is not good nor bad... He's Cena.

Children look up to him as a role model. The Make-a-Wish Foundation has John Cena as one of their most popular and most requested wish-givers. These are children... Cena is the "good guy"... Where does it make sense, as Sly asked? Cena is a unique personality that doesn't need a turn.

 

[Scofield]

Well we don't really know how big the personal heat is between the two in real life, as well as we really don't know how authentic of a person either man is. But heres my 2 cents on Cenas jabs towards The Rock.

He waffles on about The Rock up & leaving the WWE for Hollywood. Firstly, whether thats a storyline quip or Cena being legit but Cena needs to realize as well as the people need to realize, wrestlers leave after a while they don't stick around forever unless your Hogan or Flair. One superstar leaves, another comes.

The Rock left, enter John Cena...Randy Orton..Batista....part of the cycle of wrestling.

I don't get it, is someone supposed to stick around after their time is up & hold others back?

The more Cena bitches on about The Rock leaving for Hollywood, the more the guy reminds me of that prick over at TNA Wrestling....Hulk Hogan. A guy that will never go away and will never step away from the bright lights.

I thank The Rock for his contributions to the wrestling business, it was a hard time transitioning him being gone from WWE but I got used to it because there are other Superstars ALWAYS ready to take that spot.

Cena, is going to make himself look more of a joke when he is on reign no.23 and still to reach 40. He is going to make himself more of a joke when he is 45 & still doing the same shit every other night.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

Well we don't really know how big the personal heat is between the two in real life, as well as we really don't know how authentic of a person either man is. But heres my 2 cents on Cenas jabs towards The Rock.

He waffles on about The Rock up & leaving the WWE for Hollywood. Firstly, whether thats a storyline quip or Cena being legit but Cena needs to realize as well as the people need to realize, wrestlers leave after a while they don't stick around forever unless your Hogan or Flair. One superstar leaves, another comes.

The Rock left, enter John Cena...Randy Orton..Batista....part of the cycle of wrestling.

I don't get it, is someone supposed to stick around after their time is up & hold others back?

The more Cena bitches on about The Rock leaving for Hollywood, the more the guy reminds me of that prick over at TNA Wrestling....Hulk Hogan. A guy that will never go away and will never step away from the bright lights.

I thank The Rock for his contributions to the wrestling business, it was a hard time transitioning him being gone from WWE but I got used to it because there are other Superstars ALWAYS ready to take that spot.

Cena, is going to make himself look more of a joke when he is on reign no.23 and still to reach 40. He is going to make himself more of a joke when he is 45 & still doing the same shit every other night.

You fail to understand why Cena blasts The Rock about leaving. He said he never would. Granted, he was offered opportunities to better his career, I can't blame him for that. What Cena is trying to get across is that The Rock came back and said "I'm never leaving again!".... and then he left. Again.

As far as Cena really having heat on The Rock being real? Oh, it is. He has already stated so... He feels that Rock turned away from the fans. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Regardless, it's going to make for a great match (hopefully) at Wrestlemania. I guess we'll have to wait and see!

As far as Hogan and Flair go, they've become punchlines. Simple as that...

 

[Scofield]

[QUOTE="The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz;3755603]You fail to understand why Cena blasts The Rock about leaving. He said he never would. Granted, he was offered opportunities to better his career, I can't blame him for that. What Cena is trying to get across is that The Rock came back and said "I'm never leaving again!".... and then he left. Again.

As far as Cena really having heat on The Rock being real? Oh, it is. He has already stated so... He feels that Rock turned away from the fans. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it. Regardless, it's going to make for a great match (hopefully) at Wrestlemania. I guess we'll have to wait and see!

As far as Hogan and Flair go, they've become punchlines. Simple as that...[/QUOTE]

I actually understood that very well actually. While others misinterpreted The Rocks never leaving again line, I understood what he was saying but everyone else took it so damn literal.

Think about this when he said that, did you realistically think that The Rock was coming back to the WWE full time once again? Get a grip.

What he meant was all his ties are in WWE, for a while he distanced himself from WWE yes but what he meant was that he will always be WWE through & through regardless of where he is or what he is doing. I remember when some people would ask if you thought The Rock would ever show up in TNA....again the guy is WWE through & through, that is what he meant by the never leaving again line.

 

[The Big Gunnzbowski]

I actually understood that very well actually. While others misinterpreted The Rocks never leaving again line, I understood what he was saying but everyone else took it so damn literal.

Think about this when he said that, did you realistically think that The Rock was coming back to the WWE full time once again? Get a grip.

What he meant was all his ties are in WWE, for a while he distanced himself from WWE yes but what he meant was that he will always be WWE through & through regardless of where he is or what he is doing. I remember when some people would ask if you thought The Rock would ever show up in TNA....again the guy is WWE through & through, that is what he meant by the never leaving again line.

I understood what he meant... I am simply clarifying John Cena's stand on the matter. It makes for good Television... Simply put.

 

[YesYesYes]

John Cena can still never realize the fact that the Rock moved on from wrestling and he had nothing else to prove anymore. The Rock has beaten everybody he stepped into the ring with; Triple H, Stone Cold, Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan and so many more...

The Rock has moved on from wrestling and found a new success in life. He has a new career and it's ridiculous that John Cena can't get over it. Yes, the Rock said he will never go away, but he never really left. He never said he was going to be on Raw every week. Wrestling and the WWE universe will always be in the Rock's heart.

Just my two cents, John Cena will never be on the Rock's level.

 

[The Goonster]

[QUOTE="The Living Legend" Johnny Gunnz;3753388]I would like to thank Sly for putting this in a way that anybody smart enough to be able to spell their own name can understand it. Very well said, Sly. Very well said indeed.

People saying that John Cena is being crammed down our throats is missing the ever growing point... My children LOVE John Cena. They hear the intro from the other room for RAW or Smackdown and BAM! They magically appear in the room. Cena walks out and their hands go up. Cena may not be popular with every demographic, but he is making them money with somebody. and that is all that matters. I won't lie, I like John Cena too. Ratings will never be what they were during the attitude era. Never again. People need to stop comparing and embrace the current product... or change the channel. What people also fail to realize is that with the introduction of DVR, people are not watching these shows when they are live on TV. I am one of those people.[/QUOTE]

Okay, I think you all make good points and arguments, but I would like to argue, what I feel is an unfair characterization or generalization, of the people who are not fans of the way John Cena is used or booked. As a longtime wrestling fan, I have always liked WWE. I did consider myself a pretty loyal fan up until about 2 years ago, when I just didn't find the programming entertaining anymore. The issue I have is with what many are saying, which is more or less, a gross generalization of a segment of fans. A generalization that asserts claims such as that everyone who is upset about Cena or the way he is used, does not like him. Another is that everyone who boos him, only does it because of his squeaky clean image. Then there is the claim that everyone that doesn't like the current WWE format just wants to go back to the 'attitude era.'

Now, I wont dismiss the idea that some portions of the audience root against him for the reasons stated above. However, I don't believe that they are the majority of fans. I myself, as well as many I know, and I am certain millions feel the same don't represent those fans, but rather ones who feel the quality of the programming is not as good as it could be. I like John Cena. I have at times booed him, but throughout the years I have also cheered him on. I respect his hard work and dedication, and think he is very solid in both his wrestling ability and mic skills. Just because I and others, don't like the way he is used does not make us Anti-Cena. I don't know a single person who dosen't find him somewhat entertaining nor, anyone who would like to see him gone from the WWE entirely.

Now I know there are fans out there, who are in on the act, and just say 'Cena sucks' to be obnoxious, I don't feel that those are most fans, and in reality they are not booing him because of what he stands for, but because they have grown tired of either his character, or how often he is used, or placed in the top spot. I don't know how anyone could argue Cena's character does not need be updated or freshened up. Again, every character has changed their shades from time to time, he is the only one who hasn't. This notion of Cena is Cena, is not something fans are used to and that is why they respond so negatively. Wrestling has always been babyface or heel. Cena is not a tweener, he is clearly a babyface. Each of you have said screw the fans, you have to embrace it. That isn't how you treat a customer.

The one claim that is probably the most ridiculous is that fans who don't like Cena or the current format, only want to go back the attitude era. Now like I stated I have been a fan, who watched most of the last decade up until about 09. I was pretty satisfied with the product much of the decade and it seemed like most fans were. I don't think anyone considers 2002-2009, 'attitude era', so stop generalizing everything as PG or attitude. To me most fans don't dislike the PG era simply because there is less violence, sexuality or offensive language. Rather its a lack of depth and creativity to take risk and greater dimensions to a star's character. Stars right now, just appear so generic, and there is little to differentiate them. I'm not saying we need a bunch of gimmicks, but some of the best characters had depth to them, like Mankind or Goldust. Imagine if Dwayne Johnson, had come into the WWE today, with the barriers in place, would he ever been able to develop his character ? Would he have been able to win over such a huge fan base with a watered down, limited mic abilities.

If I am unfairly characterizing you then let me know, but to me, you guys are making this case that there is an invisible wall in place that keeps WWE from growing. You are making the assumption that everyone who likes wrestling is already watching and the the number of people who 'change the channel,' such as myself, is very miniscule. I think with that perspective we are looking at things the wrong way. Consider this, the NFL has a huge audience, other sports and forms of entertainment have a considerably larger fan base than WWE. What kind of business would put a limit on its own success ? You are saying WWE will never be that popular or mainstream again, but why is that so ? What is preventing that from happening ? People don't watch sports because they are real, they watch it because it is ENTERTAINING.

If people cared whether WWE was fake or not, they would have went of business a long time ago. The reason the WWE has its fans is because there are people who find the product entertaining. The reason more people don't watch, however, is because they don't make it appealing for them, or the current format doesn't provide them with an interesting product. Telling someone who is a loyal fan to deal with or change the channel, is what alienates fans. How is that a strategy to widen your fan base ? I know now is a time of economic hardship, but if people really wanted to see WWE they wouldn't have a big problem paying for it. If the Superbowl or NBA Finals was only on PPV, do you think that would keep people from watching ?

Try to take the financial aspect of it and look at it as a fan. We know why WWE's does what they do, it is because they are a business. You have understand though why many fans feel so dissatisfied with how the current programming is coming across. Maybe we aren't WWE's main source of income, but we are still one of its sources, one that has proven when it is really engaged with the product will generate just as much money as the kids or any other demographic.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

Before the days of Monday Night Raw and monthly PPV's, Hulk Hogan spent seven years as the first real face of the company. From the inception of WrestleMania until his departure in 1992 it was all about Hogan.

That torch was picked up by Bret Hart, who then carried the company on his back until about 1996, when Shawn Michaels helped take that burden. The two switched off and on until 97. Five years for Bret, two for Shawn.

Both The Rock and Steve Austin reached their full potential in 1998, both winning their first WWE Championships. The status of "face of the company" was undisputably Steve Austin's, but Rock grabbed the ball in his brief absences. Both retired from full time ring work in 2002, with four years at the top.

We then got some transitional faces in Brock Lesnar and Triple H until 2005 when John Cena was christened with that mantle.

John Cena is now in his seventh year as the face of the company, longer than anyone else who has had the weekly exposure of Monday Night Raw.

Do you think this over-exposure is why people are sick of him?

Do you think Austin, Bret, or Rock would have faced the same criticisms being around this long?

(Quick note, I thought this was a specific enough thread, involving the history of enough other people, where it shouldn't go in the general Cena thread)

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

Judging from his merchandise sales, no he has not overstayed his welcome. His current character and direction HAVE. He needs something fresh and new, be it a heel turn, or at least some modification to his character.

No wrestler, can survive forever without character evolution. The wrestlers you named are great examples. Hogan became the biggest heel in wrestling in WCW, Bret turned heel in WWE, created his own heel stable. The Rock started as a fresh young babyface, only to become a huge heel, and to then become the biggest babyface in WWE, second only to Austin. Even Taker has gone from the Dead Man to Big Evil back to the Dead Man to the Last Outlaw.

Any wrestler can have longevity, it is in keeping the character fresh.

 

[BaconBits]

I think he's overstayed his welcome at the top of the card to a lot of folks, but it's not his fault. He's been stuck with a roster that has lacked anybody who has stepped up to be on a similar level with him. He's had guys like Batista and Orton who were/are close, but not quite strong enough to be on the same level.

It also doesn't help his cause so much that h found success at a younger age than most.

i think if he took an extended break of some sort, that others might be able to make that step up to be "the man" and Cena would return to a more interesting roster and less folks would complain about him being so "stale".

 

[Champ1432]

I agree with OneTooManyPunts. I don't think Cena has overstayed his welcome. His character could use an update, sure. But he's still loved by a good portion of the crowd, and no it's not just kids. OTMP mentioned his merch sales, which are still at the top, so you know Vince is loving that.

Honestly, can you picture someone else on the current roster being the top guy now or for the past few years? I'm not sure I can. Obviously, if Cena weren't there, someone would HAVE to be. But who would it be? Orton? Punk? HHH? Tough to say. Would their characters be different? I think they might have to be. But this is getting off topic.

No, I don't think he's overstayed his welcome. He could use an update or refresher to his character. No, not a heel turn, not everything has to be a heel turn. But something to get the whiff of staleness away. Perhaps his program with the Rock is doing that, as his recent promos have been pretty good. I for one hope Cena is around for a while.

 

[Dmbfantomas]

People bitch about everyone at the top while they're there, retrospect makes everything look better. In 10-15 years, everyone will remember Cena, Orton, etc for being the amazing talents they have been.

As for right now, he could use a change, sure; but he doesn't NEED one.

 

[Cats Pajamas]

This should make for an interesting thread as I expect the diversity of replies here to be varying on the extreme ends of both sides. Keep in mind, I'm but a humble fan who pays no attention to merch sales, quarter-hour ratings (if such a thing exists), or anything of the like. Therefore, in my opinion as only an avid wrasslin' viewer, my answer would be no, he most certainly hasn't.

As an older fan myself, I can understand the frustration with the John "Everyman" Cena character. Some of us enjoy richer, more mature "character driven" storylines. Cena is often underappreciated as a universal personality. Folks have coined him "Super-Cena". I would have to agree with that statement.

Throughout the span of his career, the WWE has had a good number of world champions come and go. The difficulty has been in creating attractive matches on paper that you could charge $50 for. While athletes have been disappearing off our WWE programming, Cena has been there the whole time to work on putting over the next class of solid champions.

Without going too far into his [underrated] wrestling ability, Cena has been delivering solid matchups and performing amazing feats of strength that fans often forget to acknowledge before pegging him "stale". Cena has also needed to remain face in an atmosphere where heels often get over much quicker than babyfaces.

I've been pondering if the Cena character will take a slight twist after WrestleMania. He's had little oppurtunity to evolve much in this over year long feud with the Rock. I would say it's at least a possibility. Best regards, wrestling fans.

 

[ECW Sandman]

I am not a Cena fan but I am going to say this and I know I may get some heat for it but I do not care, Yes John Cena is the '' Poster boy of The WWE '' he is the top selling superstar besides CM Punk,

But think back 83- 96 Hulk Hogan was The Top Draw both in WWF and in WCW when he was the top face of both companies and when he was a face in WCW in 1995 he was getting booed because everyone was sick and tired of seeing the same ol shit night in and night out Hogan ripping the yellow and red ''Hulkster'' T-Shirt The American Hero good guy we seen in WWF and it was shoved down our throats for 13 and a half years,
and Hogan him self in an interview said Bischoff and him and I think Ted Turner I may be wrong on that one but they were in Bischoff's Office and thinking '' What can they do to reinvent Hogan's image'' and If I remember correctly Bischoff said '' how about turning Hulk Hogan heel ''.

Believe it or not Hogan was against because he had not been a heel in such a long time, now to present day John Cena is getting booed out of every building he walks in to just like Hogan did in 95 and in 96, Cena does need a new look or something I will give him that if it's a heel turn or being a tweener I turn the channel every time he's on RAW I don't like him I think WWE wanted to Make Cena the new and improved version of Hulk Hogan and people just like in 95- 96 are just sick and tired of it and they want to see him turn or something fresh its stale and boring and Vince and Cena really needs to do something about very soon or a lot of fans will stop tuning in to WWE Programming all together.

 

[danvandam]

In my opinion there were only two guys who really carried WWF/E to epic proportions. Hulk Hogan and Stone Cold. Only two guys since the "Wrestlemania Era". After Hogan left (who the fans were starting to turn on) WWE frantically tried to find his replacement and failed many time. (Lex Luger and Diesel) Bret Hart and HBK were just two of their go to guys when things failed, and they were just good enough to get things by.

Then in 97 Stone Cold era was born. It was unplanned (unlike Hogan) and it worked wonders. Provided something different for the audience to cheer for and spend money on. It just happened that The Rock was in that same timeframe and even though I don't think he was at a level of Stone Cold, he was close.

Now, for 7 years, WWE been trying to find that next big thing and its not working out to good. I put Cena in the same level as Bret Hart. Yea the kids love him, he's the best thing that they have at the moment, but people aren't willing to throw cash at him and don't really care if he's on top or not. He just don't have "it". CM Punk could of been "it", almost was there. But the writers ruined it by making him "family friendly", having him promise and say things and not deliver, (The title belt, becoming best friends with Triple H all of a sudden, etc) and its already tiring imho.

Nobody on the roster has the "it" factor right now. This years Wrestlemania proves that with WWE bringing people off the street (jericho and rock) in hopes for a epic buy rate. Somebody might pop up in the future, but I don't think it will be anytime soon with all the wrestlers now are being "homebrewed."

 

[Shotaro]

In reality I think Cena has far from outstayed his welcome, he does need a tweak but then when Hogan was on top (and to a lesser extent Stone Cold) the IWC didn't exist. We are the most hyper critical fans of any group of fans I can think of. Most people who are "hardcore" fans of something wear rose-tinted lenses, we wear shit-coloured ones...