**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[LSN80]

Im not sure why WWE would make a promise on a match with a given stipulation, hve it be a central theme for some time, then not deliver on it. And who cares, honestly, if he was taken out of the title picture at Vengeance? Taking someone out of the title picture for a certain amount of time doesn't mean they're going to be out of it for good. Take Randy Orton, for example. He was "taken out" of the title picture come Hell In a Cell, but do you honestly believe he won't be in the picture again as we head towards Wrestlemania? I know, I know, he doesn't have the year in advance pre-built matchup with a legend in place, but same as with Cena, he'll be there come Wrestlemania time.

Since I fully believe this is going to happen, I think it will happen on a Raw broadcast. I think he'll be out of the title picture until at least the Royal Rumble, if not Elimination Chamber. But I don't believe he'll be winning it in either place, as I expect them to make the switch come on a Raw broadcast. WWE goes into overdrive mode on the Road To Wrestlemania, including attempting to make every Raw seem as special as possible. What better way to do exactly that then to have Cena earn a title shot in advance of Wrestlemania, leaving the status of the championship match against Rock at Wrestlemania in jeopardy? Not the match itself, but Cena's promise to make it for the WWE Championship?

I believe it adds to the epic nature of the Wrestlemania if Rock vs Cena is for the WWE Championship? What happens if Rock wins the championship? Will we see him around more? When will he be defending the title? Against whom? All of that makes for tremendous speculation, and whomever Rock would drop the title to should he win it would get a major rub. If you can show me the error of this thinking, please try, but I think it's a silly notion that this match should be for anything less then the WWE Championship. And having Cena win it on Raw makes for a better build towards Wrestlemania, especially as a "last gasp" effort to fulfill his word.

 

[thesubverse]

They didn't "make a promise" that this would be a title match. It was said in what, one, MAYBE two promos, six months ago? It's easily forgotten, except by the IWC who does absolutely everything they can to hate the product they can't shut up about.

And even if they DID "make a promise," they go back on this shit all the time.

He's not getting the belt back before WrestleMania.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

I believe that if he were to get the title at wrestlemania he would initially win it at the Elimination Chamber in February. However it is not really a smart move for WWE to make the already epic Cena vs Rock match for the belt. Why make an already huge draw a bit bigger when you can book a separate match that could draw almost as much. Whatever the WWE championship match is at wrestlemania I am sure the company will do it's best to add interest to that match which in turn could lead to a great match on the show. Putting the title in the Cena vs Rock match would create speculation but what Vince always wants is a large wrestlemania revenue.

 

[King Patrick Star]

I would love to see Cena capture World Title # 13 at TLC, World Title # 14 at Royal Rumble, World Title # 15 at Elimination Chamber bringing him one World Title win away from Flair’s “record”, but I would also like to see him walk into WrestleMania XXVIII without the Belt. If at WM X8, where Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock, is any indication of how it should be handled, then we all know the WWE / World Title is not needed. Hey, The Rock was the booed Face in the match and Hogan was the cheered Heel. Think about that for a second.

 

[LSN80]

They didn't "make a promise" that this would be a title match. It was said in what, one, MAYBE two promos, six months ago? It's easily forgotten, except by the IWC who does absolutely everything they can to hate the product they can't shut up about.

And even if they DID "make a promise," they go back on this shit all the time.

Yeah, they never follow through on promises made by the face of the company in John Cena.

This was the central focus of Cena's quest to win the championship following Wrestlemania. It was mentioned the night after Wrestlemania, every week until Extreme Rules, the night after Extreme Rules, and pretty much until Cena started feuding with Punk. I guess you missed the advertisements as well when they plugged the match as the biggest in Wrestlemania history, one year away, for the......WWE Championship? Can you explain the logic as to how the face of the company and WWE themselves through advertising didn't "make a promise"? At best, you'ld be nitpicking my choice of words.

Further, there are other storylines and feuds to drive in that span of a year. With Rock not being around most of the time, Cena's every promo isn't going to focus on The Rock and a match that's still 6 months away. That would be counterproductive to the product, which lends to bad booking and minimilization of other feuds. It would be silly to have Cena focused on Wrestlemania for the entire year.

He's not getting the belt back before Wrestlemania.

And do tell, why won't John Cena be getting the belt back before Wrestlemania, other then your ironclad word that he won't?

 

[LSN80]

I believe that if he were to get the title at wrestlemania he would initially win it at the Elimination Chamber in February. However it is not really a smart move for WWE to make the already epic Cena vs Rock match for the belt. Why make an already huge draw a bit bigger when you can book a separate match that could draw almost as much. Whatever the WWE championship match is at wrestlemania I am sure the company will do it's best to add interest to that match which in turn could lead to a great match on the show. Putting the title in the Cena vs Rock match would create speculation but what Vince always wants is a large wrestlemania revenue.

I understand what your'e saying here, and it does make alot of sense, to be honest. A separate WWE championship match with a proper build would make for a better card.

The highlighted part is where I both agree and disagree, to some extent. Wrestlemania 28 is already breaking records in terms of ticket sales, and how one could argue that has anything to do with something other then Cena/Rock is foolish. That's also going to translate into a windfall in terms of buyrate as well. So while having a better card would certainly increase revenue, just the notion of Cena/Rock is going to translate into the reason for most of the buy-rate anyways. Regardless of who fights for the championship, if it's not Cena/Rock, it's not going to be even remotely as important, or impactful on the buy-rates.

So again, how do they get there? I stand behind the idea that Cena will do so on Raw, but Ill do you one better. Cena will have been out of the title picture for almost four months come the Royal Rumble. If he's not fighting for the title at the Rumble, he'll certainly be in it. What better way to throw even more intrigue on to the match then to have Cena win the Rumble, and want to make it a triple threat? Heel champion says no, choose the Rock or the title match, and it's booked for Cena to somehow win the title beforehand, such as at Elimination Chamber in a singles match?

It's not like we have precedent for someone cashing in their Rumble victory early, after all. Oh wait, we do! Cena vs Orton at No Way Out 2007, in fact.

 

[Nick Black]

Welp, I'm sure this has been asked before. So I apologize if it has been asked recently.

What exactly do you hate about Cena? I'm not a Cena mark by any means, but I see no reason to HATE the man. Why do you hate him? But please don't give generic answers...give real reasons, not the same old ones we see in every thread pertaining to Cena. Or if you do, explain your reasoning.

Ex. Do not use:
1) He sucks
2) He can't wrestle
3) He's shoved down our throats
4) He lies about not caring about boos

Think logically or don't post please. I'm just curious as to why you guys actually HATE him, because I've seen some nasty, mean posts. Also, the sarcastic, Cena marks or people that just like trolling, please avoid commenting. Let the haters answer for themselves because I actually want to hear their opinions.

 

[Razordude1717]

Although I'm not a Cena hater per say, but how can you write something like "no generic answers allowed"? Why, are they not valid? Is it not true that he lacks technical skills? That he is actually shoved down our throats? That his character is stale? I can not decipher what exactly you mean by real reasons here...

 

[Nick Black]

Although I'm not a Cena hater per say, but how can you write something like "no generic answers allowed"? Why, are they not valid? Is it not true that he lacks technical skills? That he is actually shoved down our throats? That his character is stale? I can not decipher what exactly you mean by real reasons here...

I see what you mean. I fixed it. I just didn't want the repetitive answers that are seen in every thread on WZ. If the repetitive answers come up, I'd love to at least see some real reasoning behind the answers. Not just "he cant wrestle" <--Why can't he? Proof?

I just want real reasoning to these. I understand they are opinion, but I just want to see logical thinking.

 

[RD_21]

This question comes up at least twice a week because it's impossible to hate Cena. Look, no one (at least no one that isn't an idiot) really HATE Cena the guy, they hate the wrestler.

Why do they hate him, because he is beyond stale, his Superman gimmick and he's shoved down our throat. Whether you think those reason are previsible or cliche, they may be but it's because they are totally true.

Personally I think he should leave for Smackdown after Wrestlemania and give everyone a break. His fans could follow him to Smackdown and we could have a break. I have to admit that he is not as bad lately mainly because he isn't in the main event anymore which is a blessing imo.

The other problem that I am seeing is that you are asking for logical reason for what is essentialy a gut feeling.

Some people have been tired of Cena for 5 years, I remember reading a woman named Linda Robin who was doing review or the WWE shows on a site 4-5 years ago and she was already (like much or her readers) fed up with Cena and I wasn't. I bought his CD and was not a haters of his and could appreciate him (I have to admit that I have always been a HHH fan even when everyone was hating on him for his marriage to Steph) and I could endure him. But for the last year or 2 I am tired of him too. Not because it's cool but because it's how I feel and I can't help but feel that way.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

For the sheer fact that his merch buyers are kids. His popularity is owed to the kids. You let loose a heel Cena unto the world, I doubt if the adults will buy his stuff coz he's finally heel, but the jimmys won't. Also even though Miami maybe The Rock's town but if a heel Cena lets loose on the mic, I expect a lotta people cheering for Cena.

Reinvent yourself before your character turns stale is a good argument, however, Cena hasn't been stale in million little eyes, and their dad's pocket is the proof.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

For the sheer fact that his merch buyers are kids. His popularity is owed to the kids. You let loose a heel Cena unto the world, I doubt if the adults will buy his stuff coz he's finally heel, but the jimmys won't. Also even though Miami maybe The Rock's town but if a heel Cena lets loose on the mic, I expect a lotta people cheering for Cena.

Reinvent yourself before your character turns stale is a good argument, however, Cena hasn't been stale in million little eyes, and their dad's pocket is the proof.

This is exactly why Cena has not nor needs to in anyway turn heel. People argue that if he were to turn heel the merchandise sales would plunge. While that is true, merchandise sales aren't the most important selling point in the company's income. That is PPV buy rates, but that is another topic. The main reason why a heel turn has been delayed to the point of constant speculation is because the problem of fans reacting to Cena in ways opposite to the purpose of the character will never go away. If he is a heel, the guys that booed him before will cheer for him. Again the reverse reaction to the reaction a heel should get. WWE knows this and thus refuses to turn their money maker heel not only to save merchandise sales, but to keep his fan base of children on his side because the same problem would arise again if he were a heel.

 

[H33LTurn]

I'm not gunna lie, hes started to grow on me more and more but hes far from my favorite. As far as getting the job done, Cena does bring a millions little eyes to a TV screen every Monday so no, he wont be going heel. I actually think his character is interesting. Everyone does the heel/face teeter totter until they find somewhere they fit. Cenas stayed good throughout the majority of his career.

 

[King_of_Swing1520]

forget about the merch. sales.

mania is in miama! the rocks town! cena will be a heel during that match, whether wwe wants him to be or not. the "smarks" that will cheer cena if he is a heel are the same people who would cheer any heel to be cool.

it doesnt matter how the wwe wants him to be viewed. the miami fans will boo him, face or heel persona.

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

Zrise is right, there's just no reason for it. Who's going to replace him as a top face of the company if he were to go heel? Who is a marketable enough name? Nobody on Smackdown is good enough, HHH isn't even wrestling, CM Punk appeals to too niche of a crowd, and ADR specifically appeals to the Mexican audience.

Cena will just have to stay where he is until someone else can properly build themselves up to his levels of marketability.

 

[Fireball93]

Zrise is right, there's just no reason for it. Who's going to replace him as a top face of the company if he were to go heel? Who is a marketable enough name? Nobody on Smackdown is good enough, HHH isn't even wrestling, CM Punk appeals to too niche of a crowd, and ADR specifically appeals to the Mexican audience.

Cena will just have to stay where he is until someone else can properly build themselves up to his levels of marketability.

I'm pretty sure Orton could handle the role well enough. He's the top face on Smackdown. I don't care if he does or doesn't, I enjoy Cena. He's been forced to stick with the same gimmick for years and makes the most of it. He's got better mic skills than almost the whole roster, and I think he's been outdoing Rock for this whole fued. And he's right man, Rock ditched us and I've been annoyed with Rock ever since he said he would be back for good and was never going away. Yeah, that totally happened.

 

[Rampage Bentley]

For the sheer fact that his merch buyers are kids. His popularity is owed to the kids. You let loose a heel Cena unto the world, I doubt if the adults will buy his stuff coz he's finally heel, but the jimmys won't. Also even though Miami maybe The Rock's town but if a heel Cena lets loose on the mic, I expect a lotta people cheering for Cena.

Reinvent yourself before your character turns stale is a good argument, however, Cena hasn't been stale in million little eyes, and their dad's pocket is the proof.

Here's the thing, though...

The kids really don't have a mind of their own, they will cheer for whoever the machine puts in Cena's position. Granted not just anyone can be put into that position... no way could Curt Hawkins fill Cena's shoes but you have Punk (who may I remind you is currently out-merching Cena) you have Orton, Sheamus... hell with enough build even Zack Ryder could fill that position.

The kids are sheep and there is no need to consider them when booking a creative decision like this. Plus Cena turns heel, the first guy who calls him out on it is their new hero.

 

[Alittude]

Zrise is right, there's just no reason for it. Who's going to replace him as a top face of the company if he were to go heel? Who is a marketable enough name? Nobody on Smackdown is good enough, HHH isn't even wrestling, CM Punk appeals to too niche of a crowd, and ADR specifically appeals to the Mexican audience.

Cena will just have to stay where he is until someone else can properly build themselves up to his levels of marketability.

What are you ******ed? You really believe this? How is he beating Cena in merchandise sales if he only appeals to a niche of the audience? CM Punk is well on his way to becoming the top guy and gets bigger face reactions than Cena because he doesn't get boo'd by half the audience.

I also don't think the merchandise argument is really valid for Cena turning heel. I mean of course the kids won't keep buying his stuff but all the people that boo him now will probably love him and buy his merch just to stick it to the little jimmies.

 

[loojceeb]

I was going to say that Cena Turning Heel will only help WWE because storylines are too repetitive. And not only would Cena turning heel help build up the match up to WM. I also thought that this thread was lame and wouldn't really convince anybody to go anti-heel cena haha. But then I just realized, you are right. Cena turning heel wouldn't help the rock, because the rock's fans already have their mind set and of course they're older. Cena turning heel would make kids hate him but it would have a boomerang effect, where older fans would start to like cena because of his new character. And this will also conflict the tension building up to WM. The Rock wouldn't benefit from a heel cena and the only one who would benefit is Cena again. By making Cena a heel, he'll be more of a face then if he was a face and be seen as a guy people hate, for example, CM PUNK. People loved Punk as a heel but now that hes a face, hes still great but not as entertaining. So you can go both ways, but Cena's merchandises are falling, Im sure Vince wants Cena to have a new image.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

What are you ******ed? You really believe this? How is he beating Cena in merchandise sales if he only appeals to a niche of the audience? CM Punk is well on his way to becoming the top guy and gets bigger face reactions than Cena because he doesn't get boo'd by half the audience.

I also don't think the merchandise argument is really valid for Cena turning heel. I mean of course the kids won't keep buying his stuff but all the people that boo him now will probably love him and buy his merch just to stick it to the little jimmies.

While you are right that Punk could be the merchandise seller if the heel tuned occurred, he still wont be able to replace Cena in terms of live crowd reactions. Lets forget merchandise related stuff right now since that argument is redundant though not irrelevant. Cena said it himself that then bigger reaction you get the better you are. Regardless if it is guy boing him or other cheering him, the reaction overall is much louder than Punk's. Plus like I said before a heel turn just is not needed at the moment. Within the past year Cena HAS reinvented his character, he acknowledges the people that boo him and speaks the truth about them instead of ignoring them as he has in the past. While not such a huge difference it freshened things up for the WWE universe and his character is a tad bit more edgy. He needs to head into WM as a face so the Rock can pass the torch onto Cena, something that has yet to happen to this generation. It's a feel good moment, it's what is supposed to be the pay off in the end.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

The mistake that everyone is making is that everyone is considering Cena's heel turn to be an exclusive event. But Cena, like everyone else needs to turn heel on someone. That someone would become the new hero for everyone. It's a simple deal really. Cena as we all know is unbeatable. That quality of his is feted when he is a face and it would be feared when he becomes a heel. A person would have to stand up to this fearsome heel that never loses, and that would be your new hero. If that guy is either Punk or Orton, who both have quite a lot of charisma, then he will be just as big as Cena.

In the same breath I must add that now is just not a good time. Cena is supposed to be competing in a match of a lifetime at Mania 28 and any character change so close to that match would ruin the match. In that match, Cena needs to go into it as the guy he has been for the past 6 years, regardless of the crowd reactions. After that though, I would not mind seeing a heel turn from him. In fact, unlike others, I am pretty sure that it will happen.

 

[nwo1234life]

John Cena definetly needs a heel turn he's been the same character since 2005 also the Cena/Rock match needs a heel which should be Cena cuz while the match between them will probably be good the feud will be boring since face vs face feuds are mostly boring like heel vs heel feuds are also boring. and now is the perfect time 4 a turn since CM Punk is the most over guy on the roster so he could replace Cena as top face.

 

[Alittude]

While you are right that Punk could be the merchandise seller if the heel tuned occurred, he still wont be able to replace Cena in terms of live crowd reactions. Lets forget merchandise related stuff right now since that argument is redundant though not irrelevant. Cena said it himself that then bigger reaction you get the better you are. Regardless if it is guy boing him or other cheering him, the reaction overall is much louder than Punk's. Plus like I said before a heel turn just is not needed at the moment. Within the past year Cena HAS reinvented his character, he acknowledges the people that boo him and speaks the truth about them instead of ignoring them as he has in the past. While not such a huge difference it freshened things up for the WWE universe and his character is a tad bit more edgy. He needs to head into WM as a face so the Rock can pass the torch onto Cena, something that has yet to happen to this generation. It's a feel good moment, it's what is supposed to be the pay off in the end.

I think it's stupid to give Cena credit for the booing he receives. He isn't supposed to be boo'd but he is because people have been sick of him for ages now. It's in no way a good thing or something he's earned from being entertaining, it was casual and has built up because people were generally sick of seeing him in his current character which appeals mainly to kids. It's not even entirely his fault as WWE has a lot to blame for it and I think Cena is a scapegoat for a lot of people that hate the pg era and so on but anyway that's for another time.

CM Punk gets his reactions because he single handily brought interest back to the product and made it the best it's been in years. He hasn't been pushed down our throats as the same character for 7+ years hogging the title (yet haha) and he is truly one of if not the best in the world at the moment so yes he could easily be the main guy and I think he will be as long as they don't completely stuff him up. The bad thing about being the main guy these days is that WWE relies far too heavily on that person instead of having a variety of top stars which leads to people getting sick of that person and it makes the product far too predictable.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

I think it's stupid to give Cena credit for the booing he receives. He isn't supposed to be boo'd but he is because people have been sick of him for ages now. It's in no way a good thing or something he's earned from being entertaining, it was casual and has built up because people were generally sick of seeing him in his current character which appeals mainly to kids. It's not even entirely his fault as WWE has a lot to blame for it and I think Cena is a scapegoat for a lot of people that hate the pg era and so on but anyway that's for another time.

CM Punk gets his reactions because he single handily brought interest back to the product and made it the best it's been in years. He hasn't been pushed down our throats as the same character for 7+ years hogging the title (yet haha) and he is truly one of if not the best in the world at the moment so yes he could easily be the main guy and I think he will be as long as they don't completely stuff him up. The bad thing about being the main guy these days is that WWE relies far too heavily on that person instead of having a variety of top stars which leads to people getting sick of that person and it makes the product far too predictable.

Just wanted to point out that the same was done with Hulk Hogan for even longer.

It is stupid to give Cena credit for being electrifying? Before you jump down my throat and rip it out, it is not to the extent as The Rock is. Some guys do not even get a reaction at all like Mason Ryan. Why is it a problem if Cena evokes a large reaction. I know that the Miz is heel and he gets cheered by a portion of the crows, does that means he sucks? No it is just that there is always going to be different ways people feel about you no matter what. CM Punk even got a few boos in early in his current run. The reason he is shoved down our throats is because while it is annoying to you it is a show of heroism to a majority of the WWE universe (albeit not as much as a majority as in previous years). Like I said before recognizing that he is jeered by a part of the crowd is part of his current character and gets him even bigger reactions from the "Cenation".

You said that WWE needs a variety of top stars? Here is the thing, you NEED one top selller! You need there to be a biggest guy so you always have a backup in the other guys. WWE should rely on someone who is willing to work hard in every aspect of professional wrestling like Cena does, I have no doubt that one day Punk will replace as the top face, though it will not be anytime soon. Cena is the central point of Raw because the kids look up to him as the biggest good guy, it would not have the same effect if 5 other guy were equally over at the same, the fans would not know which one they should cheer fir the most. One more thing, the product is too predictable? 2011 has been the most unpredictable year in WWE since about 2005. You had Punk, the Rock, Awesome Truth, COO/HHH/Laurinits/Nash, and even John Cena has shown some unpredictability in 2011.

 

[lilnev2009]

Yes ladies and gentlemen, same song different verse but it reigns even truer tonight. If Cena will ever turn heel the HE MUST DO IT TONIGHT. Everyone knows the tension between cena and rock and everyone knows of their impending match at wrestlemania next year. You have to make that match all the more important and titles or microphone talk won't do that. You turn Cena heel and have he and the awesome truth (god I hate that name) beat the crap out of the rock. Leave his ass laying and allow Cena to make the statement by silencing the fans. The fans that love cena are kids, parents and Cena's dad but for everyone who loves the rock....hates Cena. The kiddies that cheer didn't grow up watching the rock so their allegiance will not leave cena. By cena beating down the rock and standing in the ring with the miz and truth sends a message to all those who boo him: you can't see me. Cena loses nothing by turning heel because his fan base is set in stone. His heel turn would be exactly as Stone cold's heel turn was. Austin's true fans stayed with him while others hated him for what he did to good ole JR. WWE can only profit off of a Cena heel turn. Like it or not, people in my age group (22) are fans of everything that kids love which is why we boo him. We hated hulk Hogan...right up until the point that he brought up Eric bishoff selling meat and leg dropping macho man randy savage. From that point on we were hooked on Hogan and the NWO. Cena is not tops in merchandise and who is now? CM Punk, the guy who has been his nemesis for the last few months. Say what you will but if John Cena turns heel, people who shouted "cena sucks" would be converts to chanting, "let's go Cena". Cena turns heel, you now have the build up to wrestlemania by having the classic heel vs hero and also new school vs old school. Cena turns heel tonight, and then cuts a promo tomorrow night saying how he turned because fans cheer a guy who never leaves but is never there. Allow cena the same rope and room that you give CM Punk and watch the fans follow. TURN CENA HEEL TONIGHT AND THERE CAN BE NO NEGATIVES. Especially with Rock confirmed for tomorrow night, start the road to wrestlemania tonight. Use the fact that the rock is wrestling tonight to your advantage. Do what Brock destroying Hogan did for Brock, but you have to do it tonight