ECW Region Finals: Edge vs. Steve Austin

[Nate DaMac]

Why the hell are we discussing ratings? I mean if thats what were gonna base this on, why even have a tournament? Austin will win everytime. I will be basing my vote on kayfabe and wrestling ability. Austin always loses the first match against all the big name wrestlers he faces. (Edge IS a big name, don't kid yourself). And to me, Austin's wrestling prime was in WCW, not after the broken neck. You put "Stunning" Steve Austin against the Ultimate Opportunist, I will choose Edge everytime. Thats the way I choose to vote.

 

[tbanger]

I've just thought of another thing to consider, don't think people have looked at it this way before...


Let's look at the Elite 8, apart from these two...
Taker, Rock, Benoit, Hart, RVD, Jericho. If not in their primes, they were all at very good level when Austin was in his prime. And Austin still rose to the top. Judge a man by the company he keeps. Edge isn't even the main man now, with 4 of those people out of the picture, and two of them around still.

Austin has profited far more from his exchanges with the rest of the Elite 8 than Edge could or ever would.

 

[Tastycles]

Something else has just come to me about Austin. The whole success of Austin was that, unlike Cena and Hogan he was relatable. He was the downtrodden guy, who won big in the end, that's what he did. To have this persona, you have to be downtrodden, and nobody downtreads better than Edge. He, in kayfabe, forced Matt Hardy to switch brands, the Undertaker to be banished etc.

If this was a long and protracted feud, I'd be giving it to Austin, but in one match on one night, Austin would be screwed out of the win.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

As we stare down the long road of ratings, I want to bring up a point here. Edge wrestles in a time when ratings aren't as high. Here's the facts:

Edge's segment registered 5.2, that's huge. In fact, it was the first time Raw went over 5 for almost 4 years. That is impact, by a controversial segment, and there is literally no way to refute that. The ratings for the rest of the show were lower, it was completely down to Edge.

When Steve Austin stopped being on Raw for 9 months, the ratings stayed constant. Now, I'm not saying he was less of a ratings draw than Edge, because I don't think that is true, but what I will say is that Austin's effect on the ratings is exaggerated, this much is true, and Edge was capable of making an impact with controversial acts, the facts speak for themselves.

I don't see how your claim proves that Austin's ability to draw was exaggerated. There's a pretty strong correlation between Austin's rise to the main-event and WWE's ratings ascendancy. I would say that a more logical conclusion from what you use as proof for Austin's exaggerated drawing power would be the following: RAW had become an extremely enjoyable product, and people were digging the Attitude Era. Thus, the WWF was able to maintain the ratings that Austin had obtained almost all by himself during the late 1990s.

 

[Razor]

If we're voting on who has done more for the business, we might as well forgo the entire tournament and make it a Hogan vs. Austin final, with the winner every year going with the tide of the forum. It's like the argument "but Hogan doesn't go down! ..and the Undertaker is a Deadman!" If we go that route, might as well make the finals Hogan vs. Undertaker, with it ending in a draw because the Undertaker kept sitting up before Hogan could nail the Leg Drop. And if we're going title reigns, might as well give it to Flair. He is a 16 time World Champion after all.

Now, with that out of the way, I'm going with Edge. Why? No reason, really. This will be a war. Not Hart vs. Rock, but a war. Neither will want to stay down, yet the other will do anything he can to make sure he does.

Austin has his Stunner. Edge has his Edgecution, his Spear. The Stunner can be hit if Austin knocks Edge about the head a few times to make sure he doesn't think "Hey...his back is turned!" And Edge can keep Austin down with his Spear if Edge hits it a few..more like 5 times. But who's to say either scenario won't happen? Exactly. Finishers are out the window.

It comes down to whom I want to win. ..And after Will's post, I want Edge to win even more than when I saw the match up and said "Hey, Edge would win that."

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Xfear, don't take this personal (you've voted anyways - so I couldn't win your vote now even if you changed your mind) but I'm not replying to your reply to me.

We've misunderstood each other, and I feel I need to start over from scratch, in a smaller post, to try and re-explain everything - without any misunderstanding. And we can pick up and go from there, if you'd like.

First though - in your post, you claimed I never ran down Austin's attitude era history, and you were wrong - I did, you just didn't obviously finish the post So here it is, 2nd & 3rd paragraphs.

I highly advise everyone else who needs further proof on why that whole "Attitude Era > Brand Split" nonsense is exactly that, to read this as well..

So let’s rewind real quick, because I touched base on this in my opening argument, but still seen a lot of people whining over how “Attitude Era > Brand Split” and bullshit like that. SO, let’s just look at the difference, once again.

During the Attitude Era, Steve Austin lost a lot to Bret Hart, defeated younger brother Owen. Won his first Heavyweight Championship against a guy who had a broken back, and was leaving the Company for the following 4 years, had a tough go against Dude Love, but managed to come out thanks to accidental help from the McMahon’s, lost to Kane (rookie), only to defeat Kane the following night, defeated the Undertaker in his best moment to date, then was stripped, screwed and out-smarted out of the Championship by the McMahon’s.

The following year, Austin was eliminated by Mr. McMahon to lose the Royal Rumble, but bounced back in a steel cage match - thanks to Big Show throwing him through the side. Austin beat the Rock in back-to-back Pay per views, only to lose to the Undertaker. Austin then went on to lose to both McMahon’s in a ladder match, then continued his journey toward nothing-ness by having more meaningless feuds with Taker, winning a Championship only to lose it a month later to Mick Foley, who later lost to Triple H, who “game-planned” having Austin ran down by a car, and that my friend’s is Austin’s prime.

So, Austin feuded with the likes of; Bret & Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, (Briefly) Dude Love, the Undertaker, Kane, the Rock and Triple H. The main core of the “Attitude Era” was Taker, Rock, Dude Love & a peaking Triple H.

And yet people claim that was such a dominate time for Wrestling and Austin, hmm, I wonder why.

On the opposite end, you have Edge.. A guy who’s been on the same brand at different times with the likes of; John Cena, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, the Hardys, Mick Foley, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, the Big Show and the list continues to go on and on and on. And here’s the best part, Edge has defeated them all! Winning Heavyweight Championships from most of them, and making a name for himself at the same time.

So, someone please tell me again, how the Attitude Era which had very limited Main Eventers, has topped and rivaled that of the Brand Split, which shows an endless flux of Main Event, top level Superstars constantly coming and going, keeping Edge on his feet and alert at all times.

Okay, now then.. Xfear as far as the controversial situations go. I never said, or meant to say Edge is the most controversial guy in history. But I'm also going to stand firm in saying, he's done a bit more than just played a character.

All Goldust and George did, were act fruity and play characters. Edge's original lustful acts of controversy lead to Matt Hardy being fired, and the fans finding out exactly why (behind the scenes) leading to tons of fans hating Edge with a real-life passion. Thats controversy, thats REAL.

Does that mean he should win this match because of that? No. But it does mean hes more controversial than a guy (Austin) who's biggest controversial moments came off Pillman having a gun, not Austin.. then Austin, ending up with a toy gun in the middle of the ring - having McMahon piss himself.

Was it controversial? NO, not in the slightest. Why? Because who in their right fucking mind would believe that a "fired" Superstar, on live television, would take the owner hostage, and threaten to kill him. (which mind you, Austin never once threatened to harm McMahon.) If you honestly thought the "gun" Austin was holding was real - then go check yourself into a mental hospital, because you've fucking lost your marbles.

As for everything else, well let's see, how'd McMahon put it.. Austin was "being himself", right? So apparently the real Steve Austin loves to steal private property, take all types of machinery and destroy and vandalize other people's stuff. Right Yeah, that's really the real him.

Edge didn't need to act out in character to get over - the sex scandal with Amy Dumas was something no one was ever meant to know about - but like always, someone found out, and it made Edge huge, for personal REAL reasons. Thats something Austin could never have done.

Now, I firmly believe Austin is a redneck, who loves to drink beer, wear camo and go hunting. He's a Texan, what Texan do you know that doesn't love to do those things? But that hardly and by far doesn't make him "unbeatable" or any more controversial.

As for Xfear's statement of sex in wrestling, I firmly and fully agree. They go hand in hand, because it sells. Which is also, mind you, further proof that Edge cornered the so-called market on selling one of the most popular, taboo and controversial subjects in the sports-entertainment industry. No one, with the exception of Kat's tits on a one-time only deal, has made as much of a statement regarding sex or sexual acts, as Edge.

Once again - does that make him the most controversial guy there? No. Does that mean he should win, solely on that note? NO. This match shouldn't be contested over controversy.. just like it really shouldn't be contested over merch. sales, or how popular someone was during their "run".

As for KB's remarks of "Austin > Edge in everything by a mile" or some ridiculous statement like that. Well, I'm not even going to give that the time of day because even by KB standards, it's quite possibly the weakest thing I've ever seen. I could just as easily reverse that little "pac-man" symbol and claim all of that for Edge. Oh, the best part - people who back Edge, like those who back Austin, will believe what they want to believe. So that statement alone means roughly nothing. (sorry KB, nothing personal)

As for this match, it's a regular match with rules. Does that give Austin the advantage? Hardly, it falls directly into Edge's hands. Because he's more of a master at manipulating the rules, and finding ways to cheat - even when hes not suppose to, to win the match.

Need proof? Of course, like always, I brought a video.

Summerslam 2006: Edge (c) vs. John Cena
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[DM]x90r2z_john-cena-vs-edge-summerslam-2006-p_sport[/DM]​

So, what does that prove? It proves that Edge can beat the hottest guy in the business, in his hometown, with the deck stacked against him, when even the rules are against him. Edge can win against Austin, and this video proves just a sample of why.

 

[CH David]

Ok this is a really killer match up. Like most people have said, this is a very difficult choice. So I am going to keep it roughly short and sweet.

This can go either way, and no doubt would be an epic one on one battle. The match would inevitably end up in a brawling situation, so that part of the match would definitely go to Austin. Edge would somehow find a way to counter, and amount his own offense. I see this being a back and forth action match, with both gaining a bunch of offense.

People are saying that the Stunner is almost like the final straw, and that once it is hit, no one can kick out. I am not saying that normally when hit on an opponent, they aren't out for the count, because they are about 80-90% of the time. But Edge could kick out of the Stunner at least once, possibly even twice if he is graced from a miracle.

I have also read that Edge's Spear is a crappy spear, that Batista's is better. So what? Edge isn't a huge guy like Batista, so it doesn't look as effective, but it is still a spear and will knock the wind out of a lot of people. I got spear tackled playing football, and I was down for a few minutes gasping for air. A short tangent I apologize. I also say that the Edgecution is better anyway.

So in my opinion, before Austin had the neck injury, he was a good mat wrestler and would definitely be a good mat guy in his future, but afterwards, during the latter part of 97 and into 99 I would say was his prime. During this time I would say he was a brawler and not as much of a mat wrestler.

Edge on the other hand has been a very capable mat wrestler since he came in. He has beaten some high caliber foes that Austin was not able to face due to injuries taking their toll on him. He has also beaten most of the guys Austin also beat.

Taking out popularity and who made more money and saved the company, on wrestling ability used more consistently, and I stress wrestling, I have to give it to Edge, but only barely.

 

[The Prototype]

I am voting for Edge. I have never been a huge Stone Cold fan. The Rock had just as much to do with the Attitude Era as Stone Cold did. And The Rock has more charisma. Stone Cold played a character well but many people could have done the same character successfully. Also Edge can adapt to many different wrestling styles as Austin is a one-dimensional brawler.

 

[X]

Xfear, don't take this personal (you've voted anyways - so I couldn't win your vote now even if you changed your mind) but I'm not replying to your reply to me.

We've misunderstood each other, and I feel I need to start over from scratch, in a smaller post, to try and re-explain everything - without any misunderstanding. And we can pick up and go from there, if you'd like.

Sounds perfectly reasonable and good to me Will, responding to your post was an epic task man, who wants to write an hour long wrestling post when we could be talking about boobs in the Bar Room?

First though - in your post, you claimed I never ran down Austin's attitude era history, and you were wrong - I did, you just didn't obviously finish the post So here it is, 2nd & 3rd paragraphs.

Really? Damn, well then I apologize, I did mention though that I didn't read your entire first post, lol. You gotta come up with some cliff notes or something.

Okay, now then.. Xfear as far as the controversial situations go. I never said, or meant to say Edge is the most controversial guy in history. But I'm also going to stand firm in saying, he's done a bit more than just played a character.

All Goldust and George did, were act fruity and play characters. Edge's original lustful acts of controversy lead to Matt Hardy being fired, and the fans finding out exactly why (behind the scenes) leading to tons of fans hating Edge with a real-life passion. Thats controversy, thats REAL.

I'm confused here though Will, because one moment you're calling this a kayfabe contest and the next you want us to take into account events that happened outside of the ring? Granted they incorporated those events into a storyline, but I really don't think stealing someone's girlfriend is something new in the wrestling world.

Does that mean he should win this match because of that? No. But it does mean hes more controversial than a guy (Austin) who's biggest controversial moments came off Pillman having a gun, not Austin.. then Austin, ending up with a toy gun in the middle of the ring - having McMahon piss himself.

Quite honestly I'm not sure why we're talking about controversy still. Controversies in a wrestlers career shouldn't come into play when judging this contest, or else we'd all be voting against Benoit now wouldn't we?

Was it controversial? NO, not in the slightest. Why? Because who in their right fucking mind would believe that a "fired" Superstar, on live television, would take the owner hostage, and threaten to kill him. (which mind you, Austin never once threatened to harm McMahon.) If you honestly thought the "gun" Austin was holding was real - then go check yourself into a mental hospital, because you've fucking lost your marbles.

I never brought up the fake gun angle so I'm not sure why you're addressing this. I did briefly mention the Pillman angle.

But Austin's character itself was what made him so controversial. He was the first real case of an anti-hero as a company's top face. Before that, you'd never see a face attacking announcers and being cheered on for doing so. Austin revolutionized what it meant to be a face in wrestling, something Edge can't say.

As for everything else, well let's see, how'd McMahon put it.. Austin was "being himself", right? So apparently the real Steve Austin loves to steal private property, take all types of machinery and destroy and vandalize other people's stuff. Right Yeah, that's really the real him.

...Actually Will I'd say that probably is some of the things he does in his spare time . He is afterall an alcoholic redneck who's been arrested numerous times. I'm willing to bet he's got all kinds of off-road vehicles and stuff too. Not that any of this is relevent though.

Edge didn't need to act out in character to get over - the sex scandal with Amy Dumas was something no one was ever meant to know about - but like always, someone found out, and it made Edge huge, for personal REAL reasons. Thats something Austin could never have done.

It made Edge "huge"? How? He was no more popular then before, and the backlash from the fans for the Lita thing was shortlived at best.

Doesn't matter if Edge was the most over man in the entire sport of wrestling right now, because it still absolutely pales in comparison to Austin at his prime. The guy is almost single handedly responsible for the WWF's resurgence during the Attitude Era, one of the most popular eras in the history of wrestling. Edge isn't exactly rolling in the viewers right now though is he?

As for Xfear's statement of sex in wrestling, I firmly and fully agree. They go hand in hand, because it sells. Which is also, mind you, further proof that Edge cornered the so-called market on selling one of the most popular, taboo and controversial subjects in the sports-entertainment industry. No one, with the exception of Kat's tits on a one-time only deal, has made as much of a statement regarding sex or sexual acts, as Edge.

How did he "corner the market"? Are you still talking about that incredibly tame and unentertaining "Live Sex Show"? Seriously? I can think of about five different Sable promos right off the top of my head that were more scandalous then that (Fully Loaded 1998 for example). Yeah it showed off some T&A, but so what? That was hardly the most sexual thing the WWE has ever shown. I mean Jesus, Mae Young has shown more T&A then that man.

Once again - does that make him the most controversial guy there? No. Does that mean he should win, solely on that note? NO. This match shouldn't be contested over controversy.. just like it really shouldn't be contested over merch. sales, or how popular someone was during their "run".

Glad to see you agree with me that controversy shouldn't really be much of a factor in judging this here.

As for this match, it's a regular match with rules. Does that give Austin the advantage? Hardly, it falls directly into Edge's hands. Because he's more of a master at manipulating the rules, and finding ways to cheat - even when hes not suppose to, to win the match.

So your argument for Edge having the advantage in a match with rules is that he would find a way to break those rules? Doesn't make very much sense. If you want to judge on absurd hypotheticals such as that, what's to stop Austin from bashing Edge's face in with a crowbar while the referee's back is turned?

Relying on hypothetical situations like that is pretty low.

So, what does that prove? It proves that Edge can beat the hottest guy in the business, in his hometown, with the deck stacked against him, when even the rules are against him. Edge can win against Austin, and this video proves just a sample of why.

...Of course Edge is going to appear much more over and popular in his HOME TOWN Will, that doesn't say very much. Kurt Angle got massive pops when he defeated Austin at Unforgiven 2001, but you wouldn't say that makes Angle a more popular wrestler then Austin would you?

Besides, we both know that John Cena has been the hottest man in the biz for well over four years now. Edge will always be second fiddle to Cena. If he can't even be the top guy in the promotion now a days, how's he going to stack up against a man that was the top guy in the entire industry (when there was ACTUAL COMPETITION from two different promotions) during his time?

Look at this point Will I don't think either of us are going to change the others mind. I promised to hear you out, and I did just that. Unfortunately you haven't really given me any reason to vote for Edge. So yeah, I did vote for Austin, but I can still appreciate how passionate you are about Edge. I wish half of the posters we had here had that kind of a passion for what they posted on.

 

[Zeedeevel]

I am a fan of Austin and of Edge, but I'm afraid this match caters to Edge. Out of Edge's title reigns, only 2 ended in standard 1 on 1 matches. RR 2006 to Cena which wasnt really a setback since he had gotten that little rub that he needed to be a main-event guy. The other one was to Taker at WM 24 and thats just a given since it was WM and Taker doesnt lose there. That being said Austin did only lose the title once in a standard 1 on 1 contest (Unforgiven 2001) but mainly that happened because his biggest feud was with Vince and there was no way to build that feud based on Vince giving Austin a fair chance. Look at the match with Dude Love from Over the Edge 98. Vince kept changing the rules in that match to try to cater to Austin losing the title

 

[HEEL Blazy]

I gotta vote Edge here. Edge is one of the best heel workers in awhile. He can draw so much heat. A great mic worker at that and damn good in the ring. His ladder match with Jeff was by far one of the best I seen in awhile. Also his matches with Cena were good which is saying something seeing as I'm not much of a Cena fan and don't really like his matches to much. But yeah I'm gonna go with Edge.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Sounds perfectly reasonable and good to me Will, responding to your post was an epic task man, who wants to write an hour long wrestling post when we could be talking about boobs in the Bar Room?

X, you're the only man to respond to my initial post thus far - so you're the only person I give full credit to, for trying to defuse my hit-points.

And yes, boob talking is a very nice conversation. You know who else loves Boobs? Edge. Let this be a reminder to everyone who hasn't yet voted. A vote for Edge is a vote for boobs. Sorry, had to.

Seriously though.. onto the good stuff.

Really? Damn, well then I apologize, I did mention though that I didn't read your entire first post, lol. You gotta come up with some cliff notes or something.

lol At the very bottom of the post, I gave one big paragraph on what I felt everyone would've learned from my post. And I swear I tried breaking it down into sections. Why else would I make a separate headline title for each individual topic?

I'm confused here though Will, because one moment you're calling this a kayfabe contest and the next you want us to take into account events that happened outside of the ring? Granted they incorporated those events into a storyline, but I really don't think stealing someone's girlfriend is something new in the wrestling world.

X, I have to admit I am really confused on whether half the people vote based off kayfabe, real life, or overall accomplishments in the Industry. So I mix and match a lot of the time. Sorry if that sways what I say, I'll always try to make it understandable though.

I bring this up, because his real life is what made him (Edge) a Superstar. If it wasn't for the fans and their willingness to have so much personal, real-life hatred for the guy - the Rated R gimmick may of never been born.

But on the same token of note, if it wasn't for the fans love of attitude; Austin's "Stone Cold" gimmick never would've took off. So you do have to mix real life with character to understand some things.

Quite honestly I'm not sure why we're talking about controversy still. Controversies in a wrestlers career shouldn't come into play when judging this contest, or else we'd all be voting against Benoit now wouldn't we?

Well, on the Benoit note - isn't everyone voting against him because of what happened in real life? I mean, fuck, one of the mods even brought up the point of not voting for a murderer. You, yourself said something along those lines too, did you not?

As for Edge/Austin, I'm not entirely sure where we got off on this big controversy kick, but I'd agree that controversy doesn't or shouldn't play that big of a role in determining a winner. But only on the same note that Austin being in the Hall of Fame, or being Vince's pet, shouldn't have any barring either.

Especially since Edge has accomplished more through accolade's and Championships that will unquestionably put Edge into the Hall of Fame, not to mention, make McMahon love him on the shear note that the W.W.E purely created Edge.. whereas Austin was already forming himself before he ever came to the Company.

I never brought up the fake gun angle so I'm not sure why you're addressing this. I did briefly mention the Pillman angle.

I wasn't entirely replying to you with everything, X, I was replying to anyone voting or siding in Austin's favor. Consider my most recent post, a start from scratch in a smaller form to try and re-explain what I tried explaining to begin with, in the post that scares people, apparently.

Ya know, on that note in a personal level - if people aren't going to take the time to read it, long or not, I think thats already a bit biased. Ya think? Granted, when I noticed you replied to even half of it - I thought to myself, if this is half - I wonder what a full reply from X would've looked like.

We'd be border-lining the text-characters limit.

But Austin's character itself was what made him so controversial. He was the first real case of an anti-hero as a company's top face. Before that, you'd never see a face attacking announcers and being cheered on for doing so. Austin revolutionized what it meant to be a face in wrestling, something Edge can't say.

I'm not entirely certain Austin can say that either. Most people will disagree, but only because most people reading this can't think of anything that's happened in the Business since before the mid-90's.

Randy Savage, Ted DiBiase & a couple other top heels from the 80's, early 90's did much of what you're talking about now. Attacking officials, fans, threatening announcer's and such. Savage was a wild cannon, and his most recent DVD proves that much.. but as a heel, the fans cheered him somewhat as well.

And what about Hogan? Hogan turned heel before Austin was a bad-guy being face. So to say Austin revolutionized wrestling is a vast over-statement. He merely carried on what was being started, and added to it - much like Edge has.

...Actually Will I'd say that probably is some of the things he does in his spare time . He is afterall an alcoholic redneck who's been arrested numerous times. I'm willing to bet he's got all kinds of off-road vehicles and stuff too. Not that any of this is relevent though.

I think I only mentioned this stuff, because someone brought up Austin's character being who he really was, and not just a character - in claiming Edge is only a character.

So I merely pointed out that Austin is likely not the entire "character" he played. Obviously, considering his entire character was that of someone who constantly went against the boss.. and if he truthfully did that in real life he'd of been fired. lol Just like I'm sure a lot of his lesser minded fans have done - and found out the hard way.

It made Edge "huge"? How? He was no more popular then before, and the backlash from the fans for the Lita thing was shortlived at best.

How would you consider it short-lived? It carried on for a good year, and formed into the entire character that was the Rated R Superstar. Before that character, what was Edge? A cocky, 5-second poser?

He began forming an attitude and feuding with Shawn Michaels before the Rated R gimmick, and he won Money in the Bank before that gimmick as well, but it wasn't until the night he dawned the new Rated R tights, did he actually become Heavyweight Champion for the first time.

And I'd argue that when everyone found out about Lita, was right around the time of the MITB match - when he began getting even more heat, which likely pushed him to win that match, and later several Heavyweight titles.

Doesn't matter if Edge was the most over man in the entire sport of wrestling right now, because it still absolutely pales in comparison to Austin at his prime. The guy is almost single handedly responsible for the WWF's resurgence during the Attitude Era, one of the most popular eras in the history of wrestling. Edge isn't exactly rolling in the viewers right now though is he?

No he is absolutely NOT. This is the single worst thing you could've ever said, and I will flat out defend this being BS to the end.

Steve Austin was part of the reason the Attitude Era was a success, but never under any circumstance be mislead into believing the McMahon's, their Corp., the Undertaker & his Ministry, Triple H, and DeGeneration X, or The Rock didn't each carry a piece of their own in forming and making the Attitude Era every bit of what it was.

I won't compare Edge's viewers to the Attitude era's viewers, but that is by no solo act in Austin's favor, and anyone who believes that is being without a shadow of a doubt very naive.

D-X brought in a ton of viewers. McMahon and his "I'm the owner and control everything" gimmick brought in tons of viewers. Undertaker and his dark side personified brought in tons of viewers. And each one of them helped Austin become what he is.

Without them, Austin would've failed, because he would've had nothing to do - and in the end, people would've gotten bored with a guy who made a living out of everything OUTSIDE the ring, and kicking, punching, stomping, and stunners inside the ring.

Austin was at his best, because of everything that happened on the outside of the ropes, not the inside.

How did he "corner the market"? Are you still talking about that incredibly tame and unentertaining "Live Sex Show"? Seriously? I can think of about five different Sable promos right off the top of my head that were more scandalous then that (Fully Loaded 1998 for example). Yeah it showed off some T&A, but so what? That was hardly the most sexual thing the WWE has ever shown. I mean Jesus, Mae Young has shown more T&A then that man.

No, not just that - the entire sexual presence of Edge and Lita, of their relationship and of how Edge added so much raunchiness to his character. That segment was a ratings grabber, and no one can dispute that. Tame or not.

But it wasn't just that, and my comment of cornering the market as far as selling sex.. how can you say he hasn't? Once again, he made an entire character become one of the most watched Heavyweight Champions in years, all because of the sexualness that surrounded him - to match the controversy and the attitude. (not trying to bring controversy back up, but just tossing it in there)

Glad to see you agree with me that controversy shouldn't really be much of a factor in judging this here.

LOL Once again, yeah - controversy is not what should win anyone this match. But only on the understanding that neither is a HoF spot, or claiming to be the sole individual who carried the Attitude era, which Austin most certainly was NOT.

So your argument for Edge having the advantage in a match with rules is that he would find a way to break those rules? Doesn't make very much sense. If you want to judge on absurd hypotheticals such as that, what's to stop Austin from bashing Edge's face in with a crowbar while the referee's back is turned?

Because Austin isn't as opportunistic as Edge. If this is the Austin everyone is claiming it would be, it'd be the same guy who'd only use a chair if it was brought in by his opponent - because this Austin would be the type to assume he could win with kicks and punches.

The thing is though, it might not be a chair. It could be knucks Edge's stored in his tights, or even undoing the turnbuckle to surprise Austin then hit a spear.

Relying on hypothetical situations like that is pretty low.

Isn't that what this tournament is all about though? Hypothetical situations? You have to try and assume what would happen between these two individuals, who've for the most part never met when each was at their best. So you'd have to take what each can do, and attempt hypothetically putting it against the other.

...Of course Edge is going to appear much more over and popular in his HOME TOWN Will, that doesn't say very much. Kurt Angle got massive pops when he defeated Austin at Unforgiven 2001, but you wouldn't say that makes Angle a more popular wrestler then Austin would you?

No, X, you misunderstood. Edge defeated Cena.. in CENA'S hometown. Everything was AGAINST Edge in that match-up, and he found a way to come out on top.

Besides, we both know that John Cena has been the hottest man in the biz for well over four years now. Edge will always be second fiddle to Cena. If he can't even be the top guy in the promotion now a days, how's he going to stack up against a man that was the top guy in the entire industry (when there was ACTUAL COMPETITION from two different promotions) during his time?

BINGO! Thank you, because you just answered your own Question. Cena IS more popular than Edge.. but this isn't a popularity contest, or at least it damn well shouldn't be.

My point, that you just proved, is that Cena IS the top guy in this business, and has been for the previous Four years, plus.. Cena will continue to make Mr. McMahon a boatload of money, and arguably just as much - if not more, than Steve Austin ever did.

YET - Edge has still defeated John Cena in half, if not more of their encounters. So that proves, Edge - while he might not be the top guy - can defeat and win over the top guy.

Thank you, game over.

Look at this point Will I don't think either of us are going to change the others mind. I promised to hear you out, and I did just that. Unfortunately you haven't really given me any reason to vote for Edge. So yeah, I did vote for Austin, but I can still appreciate how passionate you are about Edge. I wish half of the posters we had here had that kind of a passion for what they posted on.

lol I just said Game over, good day to you Sir. LMAO

No, seriously though.. I respect anyone who gives their own valid reasoning behind why Austin should win. YOU, have done that. No one else has. Some have posted in Austin's favor, but nothing that can touch you and your beliefs. Now, thats not to say they won't perk up and say "Oh, but we side with what he's saying". Well, no shit. lol

However, when it all comes down to it - you're right, I will back Edge until the very end, and I'd like to feel and see that I've proven to you why I've explained some very valid, strong points on Edge winning. Thank you, for debating with me - and by all means, just because your vote is a lock, you don't have to stop.

 

[kingdirrtysouth1]

When you think about it, sure Austin define an entire era, but Edge has racked a more impressive list of victims! His charisma off the charts & he is one the best promos in the business! Austin was probably a better promo & probably had more charisma, but he couldn't make people hate him! Even when was hanging with Vince and teaming with Triple H, they still never really hated him. Edge is a hell of a heel, plus he doesn't have to go out and brawl for thirty minutes! I vote for Edge!

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

I voted for Edge.

Lets be honest here if Vince wanted made Stone Cold where he is now, he could have made anyone where Stone Cold was. I'm not going to say he isn't a good wrestler but he is more of a hot head then Edge. Stone Cold's wrestling is and mostly was underminded by his will to brawl with opponents and was too busy giving a damn what the fans wanted in some cases like this thats all Edge needs. Edge really only has himself to thanks for being where he is (Kayfabe), he is highly skilled and knows exactly what to do, when to do it.... he is the epitomy of the work opportunist.... all it takes with him is simply to katch someone off guard with a spear to stun them for enough time for the pin. Lets go onto who is more willing to go through the pain to win a match..... wow we all have seen Stone Cold not tap out and pass out to Bret Hart's Sharpshooter... but look at what Edge has done here, been damaged beyond a joke in 3 TLC tag-team matches, countless ladder matchs and lets not forget Wrestlemania 22 where he went through chair shots, barbed wire, thumb tacks and to cap it off a flaming table, seriously went through fire to escape with the pin. Thats where Edge beats Stone Cold, Edge will die rather then lose and especially against someone like Austin, there isn't a chance Edge will just lay down.

 

[THE Madcap]

I'm simply dumbstruck as to degree to which Edge marks are ruining this tournament. Yes Edge is awesome, I love the guy and he is one of my faves, but I'm still smarting at his loss to Lesnar, i mean come on, Lesnar would wipe the floor with Edge. If Edge even tried to spear Lesnar, his scrawny ass would just bounce off Lesnar.

Anyways... Austin has to win this one. I don't have time to trawl through wikipedia, youtube etc to back my shit up, will probably do so after training tonight. But for one of the greatest to have stepped foot in a WWE ring to lose to a guy who in recent times has been Meth Hardy's bitch and lost the WHC to CMeh Punk.

I mean, his 1st world title was from a battered and bruised Cena after a gruelling elimination chamber, his 2nd reign was because RVD is a pothead,3rd because the Undertaker is old and injury prone blah blah blah my boss wants me todo some work now so I will continue this post later...

right... not actually gonna disect both men's title reigns but i digress...

Edge's 1st title win, against an already broken Cena
Austin's, against the top heel in the company at the time, who had the ref on his side as well as Triple H and Chyna at Wrestlemania in the main event. I don't remember Edge winning the title at Wrestlemania, ever. Also, when Austin won said title, JR proclaimed "The Austin era has begun", Edge has had no such fanfare in his career.
Austin was screwed by Vince and the Corporation and battled them for a whole year until he won the title, he beat them all. I don't think Edge defeated a stable worth of guys gunning for him...

Regardless, if you look at this tournament as what it is, the winner is WZ's deemed greatest of all time. Whilst Edge is awesome, the greatest he aint. Do the right thing people, vote Austin.

 

[D-Man]

I did a LOT of thinking about my choice here. And, to tell the truth, I only read about three of the thread replies here because I want my decisions to be based on MY own thinking, with no one to steer me away from who I truly believe is the better superstar and competitor. With that being said... I choose Stone Cold Steve Austin.

I really don't want to drag this out, so I'll try to keep this post short. SCSA is considered by many (including the CEO of the greatest wrestling organization ever created) as the greatest superstar... EVER. You don't get that accolade from someone like Vince McMahon very often, not to mention Austin's peers, both past and present. He is tough, mean, relentless, and straight-up in your face. If we are looking at Stone Cold in his prime (a.k.a. during his match with Bret Hart at WM13), he has knockout power, a finisher that is rarely kicked out of, technical skills, speed, agility, and a nasty mean streak that hasn't been rivaled much in big-match situations.

This is taking NOTHING away from Edge. Sure... he's sneaky, two of his title reigns were complete and total horseshit, and his title reigns don't compare much to Austins. But, this guy is a ring technician, he's more agile than Austin, and has more finishing maneuvers to catch Austin with. He's no free pass to Austin in any way, shape or form.

But, Austin has accomplished more in a shorter amount of time. He has defied odds that overshadow Edge's triumphs and has beaten more stars CLEANLY than Edge. Edge's wins are stolen most of the time while Austins are EARNED.

To me, it's clear... Austin > Edge.

EDIT: Sorry to all the nit-pickers out there, but you're all right... Linda is the CEO. Vince is the "chariman."

 

[RVDgurl]

Another great match up and this is definately a tough choice. I enjoy and respect the contributions of both men and I do think that they are fairly evenly matched. However, I have to give the edge, to well, Edge. He has been absolutely unstoppable over the past 2-3 years earning more title reigns that you can hold in one hand. Edge has emerged as one of the top heels in the wrestling business this decade and has earned victories over just about anyone who's anyone in the WWE.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Edge is teh ultimate opportunist and can beat guys wit duh odds stacked against him!

Edge? Seriously....EDGE????

Edge is allllways in the right place at the right time...always takes advantage of his opponents shortcomings...always does what needs to be done. Ahhhhh...that reminds me of someone else in WWE history:

Yes. Crash Holly. Crash Holly was the ORIGINAL Ultimate Opportunist, and he took the 24/7 rule of the Hardcore Title to his full advantage. He won when the odds were stacked against him, when he shouldn't have, and when he wasn't even involved in the match.

Stone Cold Steve Austin? He did the same thing...only he had entire groups against him. At Mania XIV...Vince didn't want Austin as champ, and he had pitted all of D-X AND Mike Tyson against him....Austin won the title. Then at Over the Edge: IYH...Vince had Foley hand-selected to be his next champ pitting him in a No-DQ match against Austin with himself as referee, as well as the Stooges involved in key roles. Austin STILL won. Fast forward to Breakdown: IYH...it took two freaking monsters who were prohibited from fighting each other in a virtual handicap match to finally get the belt off of Austin for more than a night. And then, Vince had some ELABORATE master plan, stacking the odds against Austin so he would never be champ again...and he overcame every obstacle one way or another to be champ again.

Edge, on the other hand...married the GM of his show so he could be put in situations where he could "overcome the odds." Some odds, eh?

Furthermore, it doesn't even really matter. It's a straight up match, and the heel usually always needs a gimmick to win. There's no gimmick here (except for the fact that it's "Extreme Rules"...but that's not a gimmick in ECW-land...that's business as usual), so in reality...major advantage for Austin.

In conclusion: when you are making your selection, please take into consideration all of the above and more, particularly that Austin revolutionized the business in a way that no one else had done (nWo did NOT revolutionize the way Austin did...Austin = antihero) and that he headlined Wrestlemania 3 times in an era where there was ONE world title belt. That's a solid vote in my estimation. A vote fore Edge? Well, I'm not sure how you could sleep at night voting for a glorified Crash Holly...

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Well, Edge is currently winning by ten votes. I have taken everyone's arguments for Edge into consideration, and, unfortunately, I just don't buy them one bit.

I'm voting for Stone Cold. Why? Because: a) if he did lose, it should be by less than 5 votes; b) it is obvious that about 98% of the people voting for Edge are Stone Cold haters. Save for Will's posts (good effort there, bro, I commend you for them), everyone else here has done nothing but pull stuff out of their ass to try and justify their dislike for Stone Cold.

If Stone Cold loses here and if there is an award for most undeserved tournament win, then Edge will win it hands down for this match (barring anymore posts that make sense and that make me see things in a new light).

 

[Phoenix]

I've had a good think about this for two-three days and my vote has gone to Edge.

Reason being, now i was thinking about this, I know Austin made his fame by being the guy who beat the crap out of the boss, mostly in humorous fashion, but ultimately I feel that Austin's been tarnished by everyone else beating the crap out of the Boss and coming up with further new ways - ala DX, Orton, etc. Also, with Austin retiring after Wrestlemania XIX, him post that PPV showed how repetitive his gimmick really was and that it does become stale no matter how many times he's brought back. Yes, I'm one of those that loved Austin, but I just think there's a limit into how many times you'll see Austin stun McMahon, drink some beer and stun again.

Granted he had electricity about him in the ring and an attitude to match, he is no doubt a great, but I just feel that until 2000/2001 he showed no versatility with his gimmick, after his injury he was the bionic redneck then McMahon's whipping boy then Alliance leader, after that where could they go? Back to square one, this what spiraled Austin's career to end, simply because he is unfortunately one-dimensional, not matter how great his dimension was.

This is where it swayed me to Edge, you have Austin, Hogan, Cena, all top faces that people have to beat to be the man, Andre tired, failed, Rock/Taker/(insert anyone else) tried and failed, Edge tried...and suceded. He is possibly the only Heel I can truly credit for going over a face and maintaining that momentum (Orton's chance blew this year and last year was an echo for him). Edge is great on the mic and knows how to turn the fans against him or with him, he is that damn good. You think he's amazing as heel, check out his face stuff when he split from Christian! You knew he was destined for great things! What's more, his moveset is alot more versatile, yes he has the Spear, but how many other finishers and moves has he implimented compared to Austin? Alot more! Edgecution, Edgecator, Sharpshooter, Electric Chair Drop, I can go on.

I feel that where Austin did carry the company, he did alot to cement his status as a great WWE champion. But Edge could be more credited for being the best WWE competitor to rise from the bottom to the top. Where Austin was brought in cause Vince saw potential and threw him out there after his time at ECW, Edge was literally a superstar who came from the breeding ground and has done so much more that only the current crop of the midcard could ever dream of! He's shown how to be a new guy, survive and go on to be the best heel in the current time today!

I think in a match where these guys are in their prime, Edge would go over, purely because he has the resources, intelligence to work and break the system and versatility to get the job done. The vote goes Rated R for me.

Also, wasn't it Mick Foley winning the title that brought in more ratings for Raw in 99 and ending WCW's 84 winning streak, almost a year after Austin was first won the title?

 

[jmt225]

Save for Will's posts (good effort there, bro, I commend you for them), everyone else here has done nothing but pull stuff out of their ass to try and justify their dislike for Stone Cold.

Come on now Tdigs, like the same can't apply for all the hate Edge has gotten throughout this thread?

If Stone Cold loses here and if there is an award for most undeserved tournament win, then Edge will win it hands down for this match (barring anymore posts that make sense and that make me see things in a new light).

Not even close, man. There have been some horrible, horrible winners and losers in this tournament.

Anyway, it's like I said... other than drawing, I see nothing Austin was superior at than Edge. Absolutely nothing. That, plus the fact that I honestly feel Edge would win a kayfabe match between the two... Edge gets my vote. It's that simple.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Come on now Tdigs, like the same can't apply for all the hate Edge has gotten throughout this thread?



Not even close, man. There have been some horrible, horrible winners and losers in this tournament.

Anyway, it's like I said... other than drawing, I see nothing Austin was superior at than Edge. Absolutely nothing. That, plus the fact that I honestly feel Edge would win a kayfabe match between the two... Edge gets my vote. It's that simple.

Sorry Milenko...but I'm going to borrow from you. Hope you don't mind.

In professional wrestling, kayfabe is the portrayal of events within the industry as "real." That is, the portrayal of professional wrestling as being genuine or not worked. Referring to events or interviews as being a "work" means that the event/interview has been "kayfabed" or staged, and/or is part of a wrestling angle while being passed off as legitimate.

Kayfabe is often seen as the suspension of disbelief that is used to create the non-wrestling aspects of promotions, such as feuds, angles, and gimmicks, in a similar manner with other forms of entertainment such as soap opera or film.

Ok. Let's look at the primes of Edge and Stone Cold.


Edge's prime: Heel...the kind of heel that leeches off of those around him to get an advantage.

Austin's prime: Antihero babyface...this kind of guy is going to win 90% of his matches...because it is in his character to stay strong for that one loss to look meaningful for the other guy.


The Math: If Austin is going to win 90% of his matches in his prime, and Edge's prime requires that he uses those around him as pawns...the advantage for Austin is nearly 100%. Why? EDGE HAS NO ONE OFF WHICH TO LEECH. Is Edge going to fall in love with Shocky in order to get ahead in this tournament? Heck no. Edge is out there all by himself...and in his prime...that means EDGE LOSES. This puts Austin's chances of winning up to at least 95%. Austin out there by himself? Oh, he won back to back Wrestlemania main-events that way. Foley was for Austin at Mania XV...but all he did was make a 3 count. Same with Tyson. More advantage for Austin.

So, saying that you think Edge would win a kayfabe matchup against Austin is banking on about a 2% chance that Edge would have of winning.

 

[shingi]

Hmm... This one seems interesting Austin the top face against Edge the sneaky heel but I am tempted to go with edge.

Steve Austin may have done much more for the Biz than Edge but The Rated R Superstar can hang with the best of them as he has proven time and time again in tricky situations. Austin would dominate and punish Edge for most of the match but Edge always finds a way to win he is simply to cunning for most superstars he can mentally break down his oppenents before they even step into the ring. Edge's opportunistic counter-wrestling style would stack up well against the brawling and violent style of Austin. Against these kinds of heels Austin was usually undone at the first time of asking.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Hmm... This one seems interesting Austin the top face against Edge the sneaky heel but I am tempted to go with edge.

Steve Austin may have done much more for the Biz than Edge but The Rated R Superstar can hang with the best of them as he has proven time and time again in tricky situations. Austin would dominate and punish Edge for most of the match but Edge always finds a way to win he is simply to cunning for most superstars he can mentally break down his oppenents before they even step into the ring. Edge's opportunistic counter-wrestling style would stack up well against the brawling and violent style of Austin. Against these kinds of heels Austin was usually undone at the first time of asking.

Once again...you couldn't be more wrong. How does Edge mentally break down his opponents? The only mentally breaking down that occurs is in Edge's head when someone isn't there to bail him out. And this...is no different.

I mean...does anyone even understand the concept of booking? This is KAYFABE. Austin would go over in a heartbeat because Shocky will not warm up enough to Edge in order to have him change around the stipulations of the match to favor Edge.

Edge with no interference = loss.

 

[Leeds Guy]

I'm choosing Edge and here is why. Edge in the big matches has always found someway of getting the victory. Austin could potentially beat the living shit out of Edge but Edge would still get the win. Austin would more than likely get revenge somewere down the road which does not help him here. Edge can also take alot of punishment think about the matches he has been in Ladder,TLC,HIAC,Elimination Chamber,Extreme Rules in all these matches hes taken massive beatings but still ended up the victor. So like I say Austin can beat on Edge all he wants but Edge would somehow get the victory.