ECW Region Finals: Edge vs. Steve Austin

[Cena's Little Helper]

And if that doesn't do the trick, surely attrition will. Stone Cold's been through quite alot in this tournament. I'd say of all the one seeds, he's had the toughest, most grueling draw. Let's consider the lineup for these men. Consider an X by the person's name to mean that I believe that wrestler to be greater than the other.



EdgeVS. Stone Cold

Brock Lesnar Vader X
Ricky Steamboat X Booker T
Raven DDP X
Mark Henry El Santo X (If I could put more X's, I would.)
Gene Kiniski X Skinner


There you go. in spite of being a number one seed, I'd say Stone Cold wound up with the tougher draw. The only real match that wouldn't give Austin too much trouble is Skinner. When you've faced El Santo in your second round match, you should be well aware that you're going to have a pretty damn tough tournament. Austin's use to fighting all of the odds, but even this has to be a little surmounting.

Attrition will do nothing to Austin here (isn't this the same man who worked while having a broken neck for the two greatest years of his career?). Also, using the Tournament as an addition to kayfabe is a horrible argument. Where does it say in the rules of the Tournament that these matches take place on successive days, or that they take place after a specified period of time (save for the last three rounds, which is a one-night King of The Ring style tournament)? These matches are meant to be simulations whose outcomes are determined by our votes, nothing more, nothing less. So, there goes this part of your argument.

Oh, and one more little thing... I haven't even brought up this man yet.

There's absolutely no way that Vince is going to allow his mortal enemy to win this tournament. Mr. McMahon would eat horse shit before he even thought of allowing Steve to win this tournament. These two will go to their kayfabe-graves utterly despising one another. Meanwhile, Edge has no problem working at the behest of the McMahons. He's done it before, when he was trying to rid the WWE of DX. Edge is an oppotunist... Of course he's going to come to Mr. McMahon regarding this whole little matter. Mr. McMahon is far too controlling to let Austin get any farther than this.

Oh, yeah...isn't that the same guy who couldn't take down Austin with The Corporation? The same man who would always put his cronies and family in the mix to ensure that Austin could not and would not win? Also, didn't Austin always overcome everything McMahon threw his way (I'm pretty sure you're going to be petty here and pull out Royal Rumble 1999, but the truth still stands: Austin won his war with McMahon, and he won an overwhelming majority of the battles)?

Besides that fact, Edge is quicker, taller, more agile, and much more sadistic than Stone Cold. Steve is violent; Edge is sadistic. And with that, there's no way I can't pick Edge.

The Rock was quicker, taller, and more agile than Edge. By your logic, shouldn't he then have beat Austin every single time they faced each other? Oh, and don't think I ignored your point about being sadistic, as it means absolutely nothing in this match-up. Maybe in a no holds barred match, but not in a regular contest. And, even in a no holds barred match, I'd probably still take Austin.

I promised Will I'd listen to what he had to say, so I am still undecided on whom I will vote for. But, I hope it's nothing like you've written here: you have done nothing but accentuate the few negative things about Austin and the few positive things about Edge. It would have been a good strategy had this board not had people both familiar with the Attitude Era and the current WWE product. But, I think we all see this post for what it really is: a compilation of half-truths.

 

[Fizzy]

Also you keep using the roll up argument for Edge, but the same can be said for Stone COld. Your point that it will work for Edge is irrelevant because Stone Cold could also use that to win also.

 

[Thriller Ant]

I understand that Edge's spear is relatively weak, especially if you compare it to other spears, such as the ones used by Batista, Goldberg, Rhino, etc. But you have to remember that in kayfabe terms, they are all on just about the same playing field. Yes, it may look weak, but it is placed at the same level. And even if it doesn't keep Austin down for a 3 count, it will at least give Edge an opening to take control of a match. Edge has used a Sharpshooter before, a move which Austin passed out while being held in and one that can be elevated to put pressure on the neck, which Austin has had broken. Edge will find a way to win, just like he seemingly always does.

 

[Tenta]

Attrition will do nothing to Austin here (isn't this the same man who worked while having a broken neck for the two greatest years of his career?). Also, using the Tournament as an addition to kayfabe is a horrible argument. Where does it say in the rules of the Tournament that these matches take place on successive days, or that they take place after a specified period of time? These matches are meant to be simulations whose outcomes are determined by our votes, nothing more, nothing less. So, there goes this part of your argument.

And who's to say you're correct on the matter? Granted, I'll agree, the fact of the matter is that there are no set dates for these tournaments. But you'd be ignorant to think that the concept of a tournament, which would assume that multiple matches are taking place in succesion. The definition of a tournament is as follows:

1. One or more competitions held at a single venue and concentrated into a relatively short time interval.
2. A competition involving multiple matches, each involving a subset of the competitors, with the overall tournament winner determined based on the combined results of these individual matches.

I believe there's some sort of implication that these matches happen within a relatively short period of time. This is neither for me nor you to decide, so there's really no use trying to use a thy-art-holier-than-thou tone regarding it.

Oh, yeah...isn't that the same guy who couldn't take down Austin with The Corporation?

Yes, and the man that succeeded a good amount of times, too. Your argument would be valid if there wasn't this little caveat; Austin did wind up losing the title. Many times to McMahon's scheme. Many a time due to the Corporation, as well. If Austin held the title for two full years, your argument would valid. Otherwise, it's a mere half-truth, similar to the accusation you've laid upon me.

The same man who would always put his cronies and family in the mix to ensure that Austin could not and would not win?

Yeah, and a good amount of times it worked. A la.....

All of these men took the title away from Austin through McMahon's schemes. Again, half truths on your part.

Also, didn't Austin always overcome everything McMahon threw his way (I'm pretty sure you're going to be petty here and pull out Royal Rumble 1999, but the truth still stands: Austin won his war with McMahon, and he won an overwhelming majority of the battles)?

Um.... always?

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That doesn't quite look like "always" does it? Next time, before you put yourself in such a bind and make foolish statements, consider that there are probably a few times when you just might be wrong.

he Rock was quicker, taller, and more agile than Edge.

And COMPLETELY unprepared for Stone Cold. The wrestler that fought Stone Cold at Wrestlemania 15 was nowehere near ready for the spotlight. He was way out of his league, and wasn't near as Ready as a kayfabe strong Edge is. In fact, the times that The Rock and Austin when The Rock was kayfabe strong:

A. Stone Cold needed help from Vince, ironically.
B. Well, lo and behold, he did beat Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Oh, and don't think I ignored your point about being sadistic, as it means absolutely nothing in this match-up. Maybe in a no holds barred match, but not in a regular contest. And, even in a no holds barred match, I'd probably still take Austin.

Then you are incredibly foolish. the fact is that Stone Cold has some sort of issue against wrestlers with a hint of sadism. How many times in my little post could you count Steve losing cleanly to Mankind, the virtual same as Dude Love. Dude love is quite all right for Steve. Put a mask on him, a goofy button down shirt, and a desire to inflict pain, and i suppose steve is fucked, by his track record.

I promised Will I'd listen to what he had to say, so I am still undecided on whom I will vote for. But, I hope it's nothing like you've written here: you have done nothing but accentuate the few negative things about Austin and the few positive things about Edge. It would have been a good strategy had this board not had people both familiar with the Attitude Era and the current WWE product. But, I think we all see this post for what it really is: a compilation of half-truths.

And your post is a combination of half truths, mixed with a tiny bit of a thy-art-holier-than-thou attitude, and even perhaps an attack at my ability to post, to boot. And furthermore, what brings you to not attack all of my points of my post? Won't you comment on just how overrated Stone Cold's reigns truly are?

Methinks not.... Thou would not like the answer, indeed.

 

[X]

I'm honestly in total disbelief right now that someone actually brought up Vince McMahon as an argument for Edge. Seriously?

A) Stone Cold is in fact one of the greatest things to EVER happen to Vince McMahon. Outside of Hulk Hogan nobody ever drew like Austin did.

B) Do you HONESTLY think Stone Cold couldn't handle whatever McMahon could throw at him? McMahon could send out the entire Attitude era Corporate-Ministry and it's 347 members and Austin would rip right through them.

These kayfabe arguments are getting to be absolutely ridiculious. Some kayfabe is obviously needed to judge these contests, but to use a storyline involving someone totally unrelated is ridiculious. I mean first of all this takes place in ECW, so why would Vince be there and if he was why would he be allowed to interfere? The interference argument is the absolute weakest one you could possibly choose. If Vince can interfere against Austin, what's to stop the Hardy brothers from interfering against Edge? We could sit here listing past enemies to interfere all night, do you see how this argument is absurd?

I'm not going to go into my full reasoning for why so far I'm siding with Austin because I promised Will I'd give him a chance to argue for Edge. 'Til then, Ausin is the clear victor here in my mind.

 

[Tenta]

I'm honestly in total disbelief right now that someone actually brought up Vince McMahon as an argument for Edge. Seriously?

Oh, you mean besides the fact that I also called Steve's world title reigns overrated, pointed to the idea that Edge healed better, and put on better matches, than Austin after similar neck injuries, and after you ignored eighty percent of my post? Yes, yes I did.

A) Stone Cold is in fact one of the greatest things to EVER happen to Vince McMahon. Outside of Hulk Hogan nobody ever drew like Austin did.

In real life, absolutely. In kayfabe? You wish it worked that way. I've said this before, in that we have separate viewpoints regarding how kayfabe is treated in this tournament. I respect your opinion, and this is mine.

B) Do you HONESTLY think Stone Cold couldn't handle whatever McMahon could throw at him? McMahon could send out the entire Attitude era Corporate-Ministry and it's 347 members and Austin would rip right through them.

Steve has failed before. He didn't hold onto that belt for two straight years, did he?

These kayfabe arguments are getting to be absolutely ridiculious. Some kayfabe is obviously needed to judge these contests, but to use a storyline involving someone totally unrelated is ridiculious.

Again, it's opposing viewpoints. You feel one way, and I feel another. I have respect for your beliefs. So why don't you have any for mine?

I mean first of all this takes place in ECW, so why would Vince be there and if he was why would he be allowed to interfere?

Because Vince allowed ECW to get some of his publicity, run some of his wrestlers on his show, and also provided a good amount of money to Paul Heyman. That's why.

The interference argument is the absolute weakest one you could possibly choose. If Vince can interfere against Austin, what's to stop the Hardy brothers from interfering against Edge? We could sit here listing past enemies to interfere all night, do you see how this argument is absurd?

If that's the case, why are you fixated on this interference thing? I made other points, you know. Why not read those?

I'm not going to go into my full reasoning for why so far I'm siding with Austin because I promised Will I'd give him a chance to argue for Edge. 'Til then, Ausin is the clear victor here in my mind.

Well, Will's not in at the moment. So make due with what you have right now.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

And who's to say you're correct on the matter? Granted, I'll agree, the fact of the matter is that there are no set dates for these tournaments. But you'd be ignorant to think that the concept of a tournament, which would assume that multiple matches are taking place in succesion. The definition of a tournament is as follows:

1. One or more competitions held at a single venue and concentrated into a relatively short time interval.
2. A competition involving multiple matches, each involving a subset of the competitors, with the overall tournament winner determined based on the combined results of these individual matches.

I believe there's some sort of implication that these matches happen within a relatively short period of time. This is neither for me nor you to decide, so there's really no use trying to use a thy-art-holier-than-thou tone regarding it.

So, this is essentially you trying to call me an asshole, but admitting that you took liberties with the concept of "a tournament" to make a very contrived claim that would play to Edge's favor? That's fine by me. I've gotten you to admit that this is neither for you nor me to decide (furthermore, I never claimed anything, I just raised valid objections to the assumptions that you made), so your argument goes out the door any way you slice it.

Yes, and the man that succeeded a good amount of times, too. Your argument would be valid if there wasn't this little caveat; Austin did wind up losing the title. Many times to McMahon's scheme. Many a time due to the Corporation, as well. If Austin held the title for two full years, your argument would valid. Otherwise, it's a mere half-truth, similar to the accusation you've laid upon me.

Wrong. Did McMahon ever take down Austin with The Corporation? Save for the 1999 Royal Rumble, no, he didn't. So, my argument is quite valid.

Yeah, and a good amount of times it worked. A la.....

The only reason this worked was due to the fact that the two had a First Blood match at King of the Ring 1998. Is this a First Blood Match? Can McMahon, like you seem to think he can, magically make it so that this match has a similar stipulation? I think not.

Yes, only after Austin handed his ass to him at Summerslam 1998.

The Rock never beat Austin during The Corporation's existence. He won the title in a tournament at Survivor Series 1998, admittedly, with the help of The Corporation.

All of these men took the title away from Austin through McMahon's schemes. Again, half truths on your part.

Hardly, man. I look forward to the BS you'll try to spew in your reply to this post.

Um.... always?

That doesn't quite look like "always" does it? Next time, before you put yourself in such a bind and make foolish statements, consider that there are probably a few times when you just might be wrong.

You are right, I did forget to qualify "always" with "almost," so, one point for you.

And COMPLETELY unprepared for Stone Cold. The wrestler that fought Stone Cold at Wrestlemania 15 was nowehere near ready for the spotlight. He was way out of his league, and wasn't near as Ready as a kayfabe strong Edge is. In fact, the times that The Rock and Austin when The Rock was kayfabe strong:

A. Stone Cold needed help from Vince, ironically.
B. Well, lo and behold, he did beat Stone Cold Steve Austin.

You really are grasping at straws here, aren't you? You made the point that Edge was taller, quicker, and more agile than Austin. I made the point that The Rock was taller, quicker, and more agile than Austin. So, what the hell does what you have to say now have to do with what you originally said? If you want to veer course here, and argue about the ring maturity of a wrestler, that's fine. But, don't act like that was what you were trying to say in the first place, because that is far from the case.

Then you are incredibly foolish. the fact is that Stone Cold has some sort of issue against wrestlers with a hint of sadism. How many times in my little post could you count Steve losing cleanly to Mankind, the virtual same as Dude Love. Dude love is quite all right for Steve. Put a mask on him, a goofy button down shirt, and a desire to inflict pain, and i suppose steve is fucked, by his track record.

All right. But, how is your disagreeing with my belief that Austin would still beat Edge in a no-holds barred contest going to win Edge this match, which takes place under conventional rules? Oh, yeah, that's right, it does absolutely jack shit for you.

And your post is a combination of half truths, mixed with a tiny bit of a thy-art-holier-than-thou attitude, and even perhaps an attack at my ability to post, to boot. And furthermore, what brings you to not attack all of my points of my post? Won't you comment on just how overrated Stone Cold's reigns truly are?

Methinks not.... Thou would not like the answer, indeed.

Hardly. You caught one semantical mistake, and that's about it. The rest was just verbal diarrhea.

But, I appreciate the last point you make, about Austin's reigns being overrated, as it really brings us to the heart of the matter: you don't like Austin, but you're trying to cover up that fact by deluding yourself into thinking that you can convince everyone else that he was overrated by bringing in cold, hard facts. But, the facts you bring in are neither cold nor hard; they are, as I already said, just half-truths.

Do yourself a favor and salvage your credibility by posting the following:

I don't like Austin, I think he's overrated and shit. Therefore, I am voting for Edge.

 

[X]

Oh, you mean besides the fact that I also called Steve's world title reigns overrated, pointed to the idea that Edge healed better, and put on better matches, than Austin after similar neck injuries, and after you ignored eighty percent of my post? Yes, yes I did.

Calm the fuck down. To be honest, all I saw was someone brought up Vince McMahon as interference. I'm going to assume that was you because all I saw was that line and immediately posted. So if that was you who brought up the Vince thing, then yep I did indeed ignore 80% of your post. Probably because I wasn't directing my post at you, at all.

And how are Austin's title reigns overrated? Did he not defeat just about every top guy in the company during his time on top? Overrated how?

In real life, absolutely. In kayfabe? You wish it worked that way. I've said this before, in that we have separate viewpoints regarding how kayfabe is treated in this tournament. I respect your opinion, and this is mine.

You go way overboard with the kayfabe. Obviously everyone judges based on some kayfabe, but to put yourself into the 100% fantasy world of the WWE is pretty absurd to me. Because if that's what you're doing, then I guess Undertaker automatically defeats Benoit because he has magic powers.

Steve has failed before. He didn't hold onto that belt for two straight years, did he?

Austin has rarely if ever come out of a feud as a loser. Kane and Taker were the only ones able to get the best of him for years.

Again, it's opposing viewpoints. You feel one way, and I feel another. I have respect for your beliefs. So why don't you have any for mine?

I wrote my post without you in my mind at all. Like I said, I didn't even see who wrote that, just immediately responded to it. I wasn't trying to start a debate with you, and I wasn't looking for a rebuttal, because I'm waiting for Will to get on here.

But sorry, again, I think the idea that McMahon wouldn't "let" Austin win is truly and utterly absurd. Sorry.

Because Vince allowed ECW to get some of his publicity, run some of his wrestlers on his show, and also provided a good amount of money to Paul Heyman. That's why.

PLEASE! SO many people have overblown the WWE giving ECW money thing, it's basically a myth created on a DVD. Paying someone in a business losing $1 million per year a $52,000 per year consultant contract is not financially backing the company.

Please, Vince sat by and watched ECW fail with a smile on his face, the ECW-WWE relationship was not as large as you seem to think. Look it up man. You think Paul Heyman would listen to Vince McMahon's input on match ideas or something?

If that's the case, why are you fixated on this interference thing? I made other points, you know. Why not read those?

Because again, I didn't read your whole post. Because I wasn't looking for a response.

 

[Tenta]

I don't like Austin, I think he's overrated and shit. Therefore, I am voting for Edge.

I think this is what it all boils down to here. I'm going to leave everything else for the morning, because this is the crux of the matter, I suppose. But don't get me wrong, I plan on discussing all of this.

Now then, I'll say it simply:

I love Stone Cold Steve Austin. Because he, by his merchandising, and the publicity he aroused, single-handedly, saved the company. I believe that Mr. McMahon actually owes Austin much more than he does Hogan, as the mixture of Hogan and McMahon is what made Rock N' Wrestling. Steve took a company when it had absolutely nothing, and made it into the juggernaut that it is. That is, by his publicity, his merchandise, and his overall popularity.

I think he is extremely overrated. I said exactly that, in terms of how I view him as a champion. At least, the kayfabe height os Steve Austin. I feel like his neck injury did irrepable damage, and it affected his wrestling abilities after it happened. I would absolutely love for Steve Austin to come back and wrestle one last match. If I had a combination of the Stone Cold wrestler before his neck injury, and combined it with his persona that he created in the Attitude Era, Steve would go undefeated in this tournament.

But that's not the case. His wrestling ability was severely affected by the broken neck, and as tough as he might have been to wrestle with it, it doesn't erase my belief that he was a poor worker after his injury. It's through no fault of his own, but I'd be blind to acknowledge that he was horribly affected by his neck injury.

I also feel that half of Steve's ability to get over in the public eye was by just how much we hated Vince McMahon. For that hate to occur, Vince did have to screw Steve out of the belt. He did wind up losing his multiple times. Your concessions to The Undertaker and The Rock winning the WWE titles from Steve by way of the corporation proves just how much power Vince actually did hlod in the matter. I'm going to paraphase the same question Roddy Piper asked Hulk Hogan at Halloween Havoc; If the fans didn't hate Vince, do you think they'd be cheering Steve so much? My humble opinion; absolutely not. It took Vince having to get the upper hand many a time over Steve.

As a matter of fact, it's my complete belief that we related to Steve, not only because he was fighting his boss, but because of how vulnerable he truly was. Steve represented us, and in doing so, he was placed in multiple positions he absolutely was not going to win. Also, if this stems from the idea that I hate Steve because I feel his title reigns, from a wrestling and storyline aspect, were average, that's simply not the case. It's an opinion, and unless I'm mistaken, I'm entirely entitled to it. Just because I feel his title reigns are average, doesn't mean I hate him. It's simply a way to reply to those that feel Edge's title reigns were meaningless. What more did Austin do in his reigns that Edge didn't? It was simply a manner of showing how the title reigns, in the grand scheme of things, aren't nearly as wide a divot as the IWC would have you believe. Steve's runs with the belt were average at best. As a matter of fact, it wasn't until Steve was robbed of the title in 1999, that the storyline took the most interesting turn. That being the "Higher Power". Steve made a great chaser, and Vince made a perfect man to screw him over on multiple occasions. We can all relate to being extremely vulnerable.

And in my opinion, that vulnerability costs him in this match. I feel Edge goes over.

 

[X]

I think he is extremely overrated. I said exactly that, in terms of how I view him as a champion. At least, the kayfabe height os Steve Austin.

I know I said I wouldn't respond, but I had to here. I'm genuinely interested in why you feel he was overrated during his title reigns. He was the most popular and successful wrestler in the world for a few years there, the man barely lost more then a few matches in an entire year if ever.

I feel like his neck injury did irrepable damage, and it affected his wrestling abilities after it happened. I would absolutely love for Steve Austin to come back and wrestle one last match. If I had a combination of the Stone Cold wrestler before his neck injury, and combined it with his persona that he created in the Attitude Era, Steve would go undefeated in this tournament.

But that's not the case. His wrestling ability was severely affected by the broken neck, and as tough as he might have been to wrestle with it, it doesn't erase my belief that he was a poor worker after his injury. It's through no fault of his own, but I'd be blind to acknowledge that he was horribly affected by his neck injury.

Why does his post-broken neck period have to be his prime? Aren't we judging these based on each wrestlers prime wrestling condition? Wouldn't that by definition make his prime before his neck injury? In my opinion Austin was at his prime when he was in the Hollywood Blondes (his battles with guys like Steamboat were amazing), but I realize most people will judge this with Attitude era Austin in their minds, probably circa 1999.

I also feel that half of Steve's ability to get over in the public eye was by just how much we hated Vince McMahon.

Not at all. Vince McMahon was still nothing but a minorly annoying announcer to the majority of fans in 1997 when Austin starting becoming incredibly popular. It wasn't until well after Austin had already become the most popular wrestler in the company that Vince stepped away from the commentator's table and became the heel character.

For that hate to occur, Vince did have to screw Steve out of the belt. He did wind up losing his multiple times. Your concessions to The Undertaker and The Rock winning the WWE titles from Steve by way of the corporation proves just how much power Vince actually did hlod in the matter.

...You might want to look at that statement again man, because The Rock has never beaten Stone Cold for the title, on any occasion. Ever. And Undertaker's "victory" was the result of an infamous fast-count from Shane McMahon as special guest ref. This match has no special guest ref.

But you didn't respond to the ECW thing man. Vince's influence on Paul Heyman and ECW and his "financial support" was incredibly miniscule. So why would Heyman let Vince, one of the men he blames for the failure of his promotion, his baby, come in and wreak havoc? If anything Heyman would have bodyguards at the doors stopping Vince from ever coming in. It's well known that Heyman despises Vince.

I'm going to paraphase the same question Roddy Piper asked Hulk Hogan at Halloween Havoc; If the fans didn't hate Vince, do you think they'd be cheering Steve so much? My humble opinion; absolutely not. It took Vince having to get the upper hand many a time over Steve.

Again, completely false. Austin was already the most over person on the entire roster before Vince ever became "Mr. McMahon".

Also, if this stems from the idea that I hate Steve because I feel his title reigns, from a wrestling and storyline aspect, were average, that's simply not the case. It's an opinion, and unless I'm mistaken, I'm entirely entitled to it. Just because I feel his title reigns are average, doesn't mean I hate him.

But what do you mean by "average"? He drew HUGE for the company while defeating every main eventer the company had. If that doesn't constitute a series of outstanding title reigns then I don't know what does.

It's simply a way to reply to those that feel Edge's title reigns were meaningless. What more did Austin do in his reigns that Edge didn't?

The reason why some people think Edge's title reigns don't mean as much as Austin's are because of the fact that the WWE now has three different World Titles and a shortage of legitimate world champion material.

You really can't argue that winning the belt in 1999 meant a hell of a lot more then winning it now. You had to be something extra special, they didn't just hand out world titles to guys like CM Punk like it was candy.

I feel like I'm already pissing Will off...

 

[NSL]

I'm really not about to read all that. I'm sure that after the first few posts, I have the gist of what everyone is saying. What this comes down to for me, is that this is a wrestling match.

Even before the knee injury, there's no way you can say that Austin was a better wrestler than Edge. Even during his last few runs with the "title", Edge has been a wrestler. Austin was a brawler first and always. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, as it obviously got him some success. But, in this match, I've got to go with Edge. This would be a great match to watch, and see a feud develop, and over the long-term, I'd give the nod to Austin. But, this is a one time match, so Edge gets my vote.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Rated R Superstar vs. Attitude Era:​

The first logical step we need to look at, is matching them up in Austin’s era. (why, because we know Edge is one of the best in THIS era, so I’m going to prove why he would’ve been one of the best, in Austin’s too)

First, look at how and what the Attitude era surrounded. Duh, attitude. What exactly do you think the Rated R Superstar’s gimmick is full of? Aggression, attitude, intensity. Edge debuted in 1998, but never even began to shine in even the slightest bit, until the end of 1999, and mid 2000, right around the time the attitude was dying off.

The fact is, Edge is without question one of the most controversial, attitude filled Superstars this Industry has ever seen. And if he were in his Main Event prime, back during Austin’s era, I guarantee without a shadow of a fact, that Edge would’ve been World Heavyweight Champion - most reigns, of which, would’ve came by defeating Austin.

The Rock was Austin’s so-called “equal”, but whats that say? A guy who was cocky and smug, who barely knew any true wrestling technique and finished people off most of the time with a corny elbow drop, who was great on the microphone, so he was considered the second best (arguably first, at times) during this period? Edge is way above par for his mic-skills, and his in-ring work has rivaled that of Chris Benoit & Kurt Angle, so why wouldn’t Edge have become the Main Event heel of that era?

Look at the top heels back during that time; Mick Foley, (Mankind, Dude Love) the Undertaker, Kane & the Rock. Triple H was peaking his head into the Main Event scene, but wasn’t fully there until after Austin began to decline. So you have a guy with multiple personalities, with his corniest one (Dude Love) being his best opposition to Steve Austin.

People praise Austin for being the leader during this time, and for what? Because he was better than a fat-ass in tye-dye, or because he lost to Kane one night, then beat him the next? Fact is, people claim the brand split is less valuable, but it’s actually reversed. The brand split has brought Edge MORE top talent and opposition, than Steve Austin ever could realize was coming for him.

Austin dealt with the likes of; the Undertaker, the Rock, Mick Foley, Triple H & Kane. Not bad when you think about what they are, today. But back then, the Undertaker was his biggest foe, the Rock was undetermined on whether he was face or heel, Foley was more concerned with lava lamps and tye dye, and Triple H - well, once the Game finally rose, Austin couldn’t slow him down, or even stop him. (Austin dropped the Game, in a car from a pitchfork, and it didn’t even stop the Game from destroying Austin)

On the flip side, Edge has toppled names such as; John Cena, the Undertaker, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Mick Foley, Kane, the Big Show, Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio.. And a whole host of other names - that in retrospect, not just rival that of the Attitude era, but dwarf it.

If Edge has managed to stay atop a stacked set of roster’s with those names on them, just imagine what he’d do against a less than stellar roster selection of about more or less 3 real Main Event threats, and the rest just comic relief. Edge was built for the Attitude era, about a decade too late. But if this were a decade sooner, make no mistake, Edge would be just as dominate - and it’d be, against Steve Austin.

Brawl For All:​

So we all know how tough Steve Austin is, right? He’s the self proclaimed “Toughest S.O.B in the World Wrestling Federation”. Well, that’s what Jim Ross keeps repeating anyways. But is he, really? Back when he was in his prime, back during that era - a single chair shot could put Austin down for a 3-count.

Are you going to try covering that up, by telling me in all honesty, that chair shots back then were more impactful than they are now? Bullshit. A chair shot, is a chair shot. (Or so Jim Ross keeps repeating, these days)

Now don’t worry Austin lovers, I’m not here to question your Champion’s toughness by saying he’s not. The guy has come back from a lot, and that means something to me, it means he can dish it out, and take it. But the fact is, Edge isn’t the pussy a lot of you are trying to make him out to be. And just one of the solid facts of this, is the hardcore match he had against Foley. NO, not just the match he had against a guy who “was beyond his prime” (as I know everyone against Edge is licking their chops to say quickly) what I’m referring to, is the Spear to Foley, taking both men through a flaming table.

Look real closely at that spear. Edge goes FACE FIRST into the flames. Face first, into flames.. risking damage to himself, the likes of which Austin’s never even thought of encountering. This is also after he’s taken barbwire shots, chair shots, and everything else. Now Foley may have been beyond his prime, but barbwire and chair shots have no limitation or sense of “prime”. And definitely not a flaming table. So the next person who says Edge is a pussy and can’t take punishment or pain. The next person who tries to claim Edge isn’t tough, or resilient is clearly out of the mind and has no idea what they’re talking about.

Now, does this mean Edge can win in a brawl with Austin? I woudn’t be foolish enough to say he could, but I wouldn’t be naïve enough to say that he couldn’t, either. Austin’s been laid out from far less than what Edge has went through to win matches, and Edge has lost to the simplest of things. So it’s a pure coin flip, but the fact I’m making - is toughness, has no bounds when it comes to either man. And anyone claiming Austin’s toughness over Edge, needs to make sure they’re reviewing everything properly, because I assure you, I assure them, they’re not.

Excellence of Execution:​

So, this is a regular one fall to a finish, regular rules match. Which means, brawling likely isn’t what it’s going to come down to, technical ability is. This is the category that suits Edge a lot more than it does Austin. Now before a lot of you get your panties in a bunch, trust me, I know Austin is a technician and can mat wrestle when he wants to.

But he’s rarely, if hardly ever, had an actual wrestling match during his best years. (1997-1998) He brawled more than anything, and well over half of his matches ended up in Austin needing to rely on either outside interference backfiring in his favor, or a dirty tactic to lean on in the end. Austin didn’t defeat Mick Foley, without the McMahon’s accidental help. He didn’t defeat Kane, without a low blow and a chair. His best match, without question, was against the Undertaker, but from there, he drops right back down to being someone that can’t mat wrestle during his best years.

Edge, on the other hand, can take you to the limit with technical wrestling, or fighting. While once again I’d rather not see it come down to a fight, I’m not naive enough to say Edge can’t win that way, I’m merely saying it better suits him to wrestle Austin in what I see as being Austin’s weakest side.

Take the likes of Bret Hart, Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit. Steve Austin has had trouble with all three, and he’s lost more than he’s won against the first two. On the flip side of this coin, Edge has never faced Bret Hart, however Edge does have more victories over Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit, than either of them have over Edge. Once again, in most of his matches against each, he’s wrestled toe-to-toe with them, or in some cases, out-wrestled them to gain the victory.

Need more proof?

Steve Austin v. Kurt Angle (Summerslam 2001)

[DM]xlpbx_wwe-kurt-angle-vs-steve-austin-sc_sport[/DM]

Steve Austin v. Kurt Angle (Unforgiven 2001)​

[DM]x2uiz7_kurt-angle-vs-stone-cold-unforgiven_events[/DM]

[DM]x2ujav_kurt-angle-vs-stone-cold-unforgiven[/DM]

Edge vs. Kurt Angle (Judgment Day 2002)

[DM]x4os2u_edge-vs-kurt-angle-hair-vs-hair-par_sport[/DM]

[DM]x4osdc_edge-vs-kurt-angle-hair-vs-hair-par_sport[/DM]

Edge vs. Kurt Angle (King of the Ring 2001)​

[DM]x42vav_kotr-01-final-match-edge-vs-kurt-an_sport[/DM]

[DM]x42w78_kotr-01-final-match-edge-vs-kurt-an_sport[/DM]​

So, what do these videos prove? Austin couldn’t even defeat Angle, with cheating and pulling out all the stops at Summerslam, including what was it, 2-4 Stunner’s?! Austin hit 4 stunners, and couldn’t win the match - having no option, but to get Disqualified to keep his Championship. Only to then lose a month later, once again despite trying his hardest to cheat his way to victory.

Yet Edge can win the KOTR by defeating Angle (w/ Shane’s interference, mind you) only to come back, a year later and defeat Angle straight up in a one-on-one Wrestling match, by out-wrestling.. A wrestling machine.

Yeah, Edge holds the technical side of the match-up between Austin v. Edge, and anyone who doesn’t believe that after the proof I just laid on you, is well beyond help. That’s just plain ignorant otherwise.

Stunner vs. Spear:​

So I think I read 48.7 being somewhat simple minded in saying anyone who’d argue Austin’s stunner being bad against Edge, is something or rather.. Then he said it sounded like something I’d argue. Well, no shit, because it’s a very valid argument.

Edge is the Ultimate Opportunist. What’s that mean, Sherlock? It means he’ll take any opening, any advantage to win the match. And what does the Stunner involve doing? Here’s a hint, it involves trusting your Opponent won’t be smart enough to take the ultimate opportunity and advantage, to attack you when you turn your back on him.

Austin’s Stunner requires him to turn his back on his opponent, before he can even wrap his arms around their head, and drop them down for a Stunner. Edge doesn’t just have a regular move that can counter out of this attempt, or even a cheap move in a low-blow, but he has the best counter of all, in directly setting up for his own finisher, the Spear.

About the first time Austin tries to foolishly think Edge won’t capitalize on this opportunity, and he’ll attempt the Stunner.. That’ll be the moment Edge shoves Austin away, only for Austin to turn around surprised (like he ALWAYS DOES) and directly into a Spear!

Now, in trying to be fair, let’s argue how Austin can counter Edge’s spear. Well, there’s moving out of the way and hoping he falls against the ropes, or turnbuckles. What’s that set Austin up to be able to do, the running leg attack that he hits about 50% of the time and misses the other 50%? Okay, what else.

Austin could kick Edge as he’s charging head on, and that’d do what, knock Edge backwards, and upwards, allowing Austin the change to kick Edge and try for another Stunner, only giving Edge yet another opportunity to drop him in an edge-o-matic, or shove him away once again and hit yet another Spear?

The bottomline is this, Austin must at all times turn his back on his opponent to hit the Stunner, and it’s proved deadly AGAINST him. Edge wouldn’t be the only individual who’s taken advantage of this. Angle’s hit multiple Angle Slam’s from his, and we all know the win/loss record between Austin & Angle heavily favors Angle, so you put two and two together.

Prodigal Son vs. Golden Boy:​

The tireless argument I’ve already seen countless Austin fans voicing their minds over is that Austin is unbeatable, because he’s made the Company a ton of money, because Vince McMahon sucked his dick backstage, before inducting him, because Austin was the guy who lead the Attitude era.

Well, if this contest were all about accolades and accomplishments, Austin’s money making ability might be worth more than two shits, but thankfully, this is meant to be viewed as a WRESTLING MATCH, between Austin and Edge. And no amount of what Austin’s accomplished, or how many t-shirts the guy’s sold, is going to win him a wrestling match.

But let’s just say for a split second, it could. So I hear your cries of “He’s the work horse of the Company”, “He’s revolutionized the Industry”, “He’s become one of the top two all-time greatest ever”. Okay, okay.. Well, wouldn’t John Cena be the “Steve Austin” of this Era?

And hmm, let’s think on this for a moment, which current W.W.E Superstar holds more victories over John Cena, than anyone else? Wait a tick, that’s Edge! So I suppose it could be argued and said, that Edge has defeated the “top Superstar of this Era” on multiple occasions, winning multiple Championships from him as well.

So, with that being understood, once again who’s to argue or say Edge wouldn’t hold the most victories over Steve Austin, if they were both in their prime, Wrestling during the same era?

Face facts, Austin’s accomplishments aren’t shit in a Wrestling match, but if you really want to go there, Edge has put down a Top flight Leader in Cena, who’s being more compared to Hulk Hogan than he ever has been to Steve Austin. And Steve Austin is definitely NO Hulk Hogan. So what’s that tell ya.. Edge is the man, who can prove the difference against a guy who got a hug and a kiss from the owner during a Hall of Fame acceptance speech.

Monday Night Wars vs. Brand Extention:​

So let’s rewind real quick, because I touched base on this in my opening argument, but still seen a lot of people whining over how “Attitude Era > Brand Split” and bullshit like that. SO, let’s just look at the difference, once again.

During the Attitude Era, Steve Austin lost a lot to Bret Hart, defeated younger brother Owen. Won his first Heavyweight Championship against a guy who had a broken back, and was leaving the Company for the following 4 years, had a tough go against Dude Love, but managed to come out thanks to accidental help from the McMahon’s, lost to Kane (rookie), only to defeat Kane the following night, defeated the Undertaker in his best moment to date, then was stripped, screwed and out-smarted out of the Championship by the McMahon’s.

The following year, Austin was eliminated by Mr. McMahon to lose the Royal Rumble, but bounced back in a steel cage match - thanks to Big Show throwing him through the side. Austin beat the Rock in back-to-back Pay per views, only to lose to the Undertaker. Austin then went on to lose to both McMahon’s in a ladder match, then continued his journey toward nothing-ness by having more meaningless feuds with Taker, winning a Championship only to lose it a month later to Mick Foley, who later lost to Triple H, who “game-planned” having Austin ran down by a car, and that my friend’s is Austin’s prime.

So, Austin feuded with the likes of; Bret & Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, (Briefly) Dude Love, the Undertaker, Kane, the Rock and Triple H. The main core of the “Attitude Era” was Taker, Rock, Dude Love & a peaking Triple H.

And yet people claim that was such a dominate time for Wrestling and Austin, hmm, I wonder why.

On the opposide end, you have Edge.. A guy who’s been on the same brand at different times with the likes of; John Cena, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, the Undertaker, the Hardys, Mick Foley, Randy Orton, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Rey Mysterio, the Big Show and the list continues to go on and on and on. And here’s the best part, Edge has defeated them all! Winning Heavyweight Championships from most of them, and making a name for himself at the same time.

So, someone please tell me again, how the Attitude Era which had very limited Main Eventers, has topped and rivaled that of the Brand Split, which shows an endless flux of Main Event, top level Superstars constantly coming and going, keeping Edge on his feet and alert at all times.

Prime Time:​

So in conclusion, we’ve figured out that Steve Austin might be a better Brawler, but that isn’t to say Edge couldn’t take the punishment from a couple fists and stomps. We’ve discovered that Edge wouldn’t just wrestle circles around Austin, he’d straight up defeat him if the match stayed pure Wrestling. We’ve learned that the Stunner is a nice finisher to have, if you can ever hit it, but turning your back to an opponent who looks for every advantage possible to win, is arguably the worst thing you can do. We’ve learned that accolade’s and accomplishments for selling more t-shirts WON’T WIN YOU A WRESTLING MATCH! And we’ve learned that over the course of 3 years, each.. Edge has come to defeat a vastly bigger group of Main Event level contenders and Superstars, than the W.W.F (at the time) even considered carrying during the Attitude Era.

So everyone, I give you everything you need to know, to start with, on why Edge is not just the prime option and choice to vote for.. But realistically, the ONLY choice to vote for.

VOTE EDGE!​

 

[jmt225]

When I look at the overall picture, like I have for every match-up in this tournament, I have to go with Edge. I go two ways of voting in this thing:

1. Who is the better wrestler?
2. Who would win in a kayfabe match?

If these two statements end up canceling each other out, then I just vote for who I’m simply a bigger fan of. In this match, however, I’m not voting for Edge because I like him more than I like Austin, even though I do; I’m voting for Edge because I feel he gets the upper hand on Austin on both of those two questions above me.

With the exception of drawing, I would not be able to list one thing Steve Austin was better at in pro wrestling than Edge. Literally… nothing. Mic work? Edge blows him away. In-ring ability? Look at what I said before. Edge’s best promos and Edge’s best matches completely blow away Austin’s very best work. While Austin might have been in more memorable and better angles, you have to give credit to WWE creative for that (which were WAY better back then than they are today), not Steve Austin. Edge has been given some of the worst, corniness, pieces of shit storylines any wrestler has ever had to put up with in the history of orofessional wrestling, and in every single case… he made the most of it and ALONE made the segment entertaining because of his awesomeness.

Austin might be the biggest draw in history. He might be the most well known wrestler in history. But he had a lot of help to make those things possible. He had great heels and storylines to work with, and to his credit… he ran with it all. But Edge, on the other hand, has had mostly nothing but shit to work with, and still somehow manages to put out a very entertaining product whenever he’s performing. Austin can’t turn shit into wine like Edge can. And that’s why I feel overall, Edge is the superior worker.

Kayfabe wise… Edge finds a way to win against someone like Austin, especially in a normal ECW match. It’s that simple. Austin would put up a great fight and it would be a great match, but Stone Cold has nothing to offer Edge that he hasn’t seen before. All Austin does is throw kicks and punches. And the Stunner? Edge would have no problem countering that, AND kicking out of it if Austin somehow manages to hit it. Then you add the fact that Edge is just one evil, sadistic motherfucker... when that match is over, Austin could very well have another broken neck, and his knees will also take some severe damage. Austin gets fucked up BAD against someone with the mind, intelligence, and athletic ability of Edge. Not only does he lose the match, but he needs help walking out the ring when it’s over.

Plus, the match is in ECW. What happened when Austin wrestled in ECW? Oh… that’s right, he lost against Mickey Whipwreck. No, no… you read that right; MICKEY WHIPWRECK. Prime or not… a loss against Mikey Whipwreck hurts you when that’s basically the only real match you ever had in ECW. Now, what happened when Edge was in the ECW environment? Oh yeah… he got a win over perhaps the two biggest legends in ECW history in Tommy Dreamer and Terry Funk.

And then you add the simple fact is that if fucking Edge goes over Raven and Brock Lesnar in this tournament, then he sure as shit better go over Steve Austin.

So, again… when I look at it all, the logical choice in this match is Edge, and there’s no convincing me otherwise.

 

[SavageTaker]

I am confident that I am making the right decision by voting for the "Ultimate Opportunist" Edge. Will along with others have more than convinced me why Edge should get the win in this match. With everyone's reason why Edge should win I don't think I could have put it any better myself. So I say good job to everyone's arguments on why Edge should get the win here. Unless someone can come up with a very, very good counter argument against any of the Edge supporters then I think I am making the right decision by voting for Edge. I can still be swayed to vote Austin but it better be a very good argument. But for now Edge has my vote and I can thank Will, jmt, Tenta, and anyone else who is supporting Edge for securing my vote for Edge.

 

[Uncle Sam]

When I have a spare... few hours, I'll get round to reading Will's post. As it is, it's 9.45 on a Saturday morning and the opening statement is longer than most people's entire posts.

So, I'll just reply to jmt225.

With the exception of drawing, I would not be able to list one thing Steve Austin was better at in pro wrestling than Edge. Literally… nothing. Mic work? Edge blows him away.

You're taking the piss, right? 'Cos I'm going to be annoyed if I get to the end of this post and it turns out you were being sarcastic all along. Austin could work a stick better than pretty much any wrestler. Just because he didn't go out of his way to use metaphors and similes and grind his teeth doesn't mean he was bad on the mic. He connected to the crowd on a level that still resonates today.

What? What?

In-ring ability? Look at what I said before. Edge’s best promos and Edge’s best matches completely blow away Austin’s very best work.

Edge's matches when he was an athletic midcarder struggling to win anything were impressive, but his matches in his prime - as the Rated R Superstar - are generally more overrated than your average Shawn Michaels match.

Besides, it's not about having impressive matches - which Austin, from an objective point of view, completely outdid Edge in - it's about winning and losing. And nobody's better at losing than Edge.

Austin might be the biggest draw in history. He might be the most well known wrestler in history. But he had a lot of help to make those things possible. He had great heels and storylines to work with, and to his credit… he ran with it all. But Edge, on the other hand, has had mostly nothing but shit to work with, and still somehow manages to put out a very entertaining product whenever he’s performing. Austin can’t turn shit into wine like Edge can. And that’s why I feel overall, Edge is the superior worker.

Edge would be absolutely nothing without the tireless efforts of John Cena. As for Austin, he almost had to work with "frosty the snowman" or some shit.

It’s that simple. Austin would put up a great fight and it would be a great match, but Stone Cold has nothing to offer Edge that he hasn’t seen before. All Austin does is throw kicks and punches.

Why can't he come up with something original like when Edge fuses his arms and legs together to to his kunch? So, basically, you're saying that Austin is a brawler and Edge has demonstrated against the likes of John Cena and CM Punk that he knows how to beat brawlers. No, wait.

That's like saying "Frank Mir is definitely gonna beat Brock Lesnar, because Brock punches, and Mir has fought lots of people that have thrown punches before." It's ridiculous.

And the Stunner? Edge would have no problem countering that, AND kicking out of it if Austin somehow manages to hit it.

Let me try something like this. Austin can easily kick out of the spear, and dodge it, therefore Edge can't win.

Then you add the fact that Edge is just one evil, sadistic motherfucker... when that match is over, Austin could very well have another broken neck, and his knees will also take some severe damage.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Austin, as a face, was more sadistic than Edge has ever been as a heel.

Austin gets fucked up BAD against someone with the mind, intelligence, and athletic ability of Edge.

Except that Austin is smarter and more collected than Edge, and Edge is the one that had to stop doing anything that could really be considered "athletic" after he realised he got injured pretty much every time he did it.

And then you add the simple fact is that if fucking Edge goes over Raven and Brock Lesnar in this tournament, then he sure as shit better go over Steve Austin.

I'd put Lesnar over Austin, but fucking Raven? That's a joke.

So, again… when I look at it all, the logical choice in this match is Edge, and there’s no convincing me otherwise.

That's because you want to vote Edge. You and others in this thread putting forward ridiculous arguments that don't even make sense.

"Edge is more calm". Bullshit.

"Edge is smarter." Bullshit.

"Edge is better with weapons." Bullshit.

"Edge will come up with some sort of plan." If they didn't fail most of the time, you might have a point.

The fact of the matter is this, match under WWE rules, singles match, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Edge, the man that couldn't until John Cena and Vickie Guerrero came along, Austin stomps a mudhole in Edge and walks it dry.

The assertion that Edge is better than one of the greatest wrestlers to ever walk this Earth is a ridiculous one, and one made not because people have carefully assessed the facts, but because they'd rather Edge win.

 

[jmt225]

You're taking the piss, right? 'Cos I'm going to be annoyed if I get to the end of this post and it turns out you were being sarcastic all along. Austin could work a stick better than pretty much any wrestler. Just because he didn't go out of his way to use metaphors and similes and grind his teeth doesn't mean he was bad on the mic. He connected to the crowd on a level that still resonates today.

Yeah... saying "What" and talking like a fucking redneck equals great mic skills, huh?

Dude, Austin was nothing special on the mic, at all. He had no versatility whatsoever. It was the same shit over and over again. The only thing impressive about Austin's mic work was that his intensity was believable, but that's about it. Everything else... mediocre at best. His comedy was lame as hell, and he said the same shit each and every week. Whereas Edge is just as intense as Austin, has tremendous comedy when the situation calls for it, and can switch his shit up. Edge isn't repetitive at all.

Edge's matches when he was an athletic midcarder struggling to win anything were impressive, but his matches in his prime - as the Rated R Superstar - are generally more overrated than your average Shawn Michaels match.

That's a VERY rare opinion, and a VERY wrong one at that. Sorry, but it's true. Edge/Matt Hardy cage match is probably the best cage match we've seen this decade, Edge vs. RVD from Vengeance 2006 was FANTASTIC, Edge's matches against 'Taker were all great, Edge's work against Jeff Hardy has been good, and he's BY FAR bought out the best in Cena.

Besides, it's not about having impressive matches - which Austin, from an objective point of view, completely outdid Edge in - it's about winning and losing. And nobody's better at losing than Edge.

Like I said, Austin's best work is no where near Edge's best work and there's nothing you can post to prove otherwise because you know I'm right when I say that.

As far as the win/loss deal... that is I must admit a good point. Austin's win-loss record has to be much better than Edge's. But that doesn't mean he would win this match. It's in ECW, where Edge is 1-0 and Austin is 0-1... so by your own logic, win/loss record at the end of the day favors Edge in this company.

Edge would be absolutely nothing without the tireless efforts of John Cena.

What a horseshit statement, man. What was happening with Cena before he started feuding with Edge? Oh, that's right... he was getting booed out of the fucking building every single night. It wasn't until Edge came along when Cena FINALLY started getting cheers, and you know why that is? Because Edge is an incredible fucking heel and one of the best the business has ever seen.

As for Austin, he almost had to work with "frosty the snowman" or some shit.

Ummm... what? Work with? If you mean by stun and then get the hell out of there... I suppose you might be right. Who knows and who cares. But if you start to argue that Edge has had more talent and better WWE creative to work with, then I just might kill myself for the ridiculousness in that statement.

Why can't he come up with something original like when Edge fuses his arms and legs together to to his kunch? So, basically, you're saying that Austin is a brawler and Edge has demonstrated against the likes of John Cena and CM Punk that he knows how to beat brawlers.

So if someone throws a bunch of shit punches and kicks… that makes them a brawler? Maybe so, but that doesn't make them a good one. Foley was a good brawler, Bruiser Brody was a good brawler... Austin is mediocre at best at it, while Edge is as tough as they come and can take whatever it is Austin can dish.

No, wait.

That's like saying "Frank Mir is definitely gonna beat Brock Lesnar, because Brock punches, and Mir has fought lots of people that have thrown punches before." It's ridiculous.

Umm.. what the fuck? In no way, shape or form does that equal my statement.

Pro wrestling has evolved since Austin's era. Austin could get away with throwing those garbage punches and kicks non-stop every match, but that shit doesn't fly in today's World, Edge's World. You have to know actual wrestling, how to use weapons in a creative fashion that your opponent doesn't see coming... and Edge has the advantages in each and every case. And my point was that someone who doesn't do anything but throw kicks and punches is going to get his ass kicked against someone like Edge. Just like someone would get their ass handed to them against Frank Mir if all they could do is strike. Want proof? Watch Mir vs. Tank Abbott and see what happened.

Let me try something like this. Austin can easily kick out of the spear, and dodge it, therefore Edge can't win.

But can Austin handle the hundreds of other ways Edge can defeat his ass?

You see... my point is that Austin relies way too much on the Stunner, and when Edge takes it out of the equation, Austin is in trouble because he's too stupid and stubborn to switch up his game.

Now you're just grasping at straws. Austin, as a face, was more sadistic than Edge has ever been as a heel.

Prove it.

Except that Austin is smarter and more collected than Edge,

False. Austin's one of the most hotheaded wrestlers in the history of the business.

and Edge is the one that had to stop doing anything that could really be considered "athletic" after he realised he got injured pretty much every time he did it.

This makes no sense. Edge still has amazing matches regularly, whereas Austin is too scared to take a back-body-drop.

I'd put Lesnar over Austin, but fucking Raven? That's a joke.

You cannot believe that Austin would defeat Raven in ECW, in Raven's prime. Please tell me you don't believe that.

That's because you want to vote Edge. You and others in this thread putting forward ridiculous arguments that don't even make sense.

Actually, what's coming off as more ridiculous are people hating Edge, just because other people like him. That's ridiculous. You aren't some big Austin fan; you just want Edge to lose because he has some die-hard fans here who were able to get him past Lesnar. And for the record, I voted for Lesnar, so I'm not one of these "blind" Edge fans that you and others seem to hate so much.

Edge is more calm.

True.

Edge is smarter.

True.

Edge is better with weapons.

True.

Edge will come up with some sort of plan.

True.

The fact of the matter is this, match under WWE rules, singles match, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Edge, the man that couldn't until John Cena and Vickie Guerrero came along, Austin stomps a mudhole in Edge and walks it dry.

False.

In fact, let’s just say Austin is able to withstand Edge’s antics… like I said earlier, there was no one more hotheaded in the history of the business than Stone Cold Steve Austin. I can easily see Austin getting himself DQed in this sort of situation. Edge tries some cheap trick, aiming for Austin’s neck and/or knees, and Austin just snaps. He’ll either get a foreign object and use it, or he’ll get Edge in the corner and start beating the piss out of him, neglecting to break for the referee’s five count. Seriously, it’s either that, or Austin isn’t able to survive Edge’s onslaught. Either way… Edge picks up a victory and advances.

The assertion that Edge is better than one of the greatest wrestlers to ever walk this Earth is a ridiculous one, and one made not because people have carefully assessed the facts, but because they'd rather Edge win.

So you don't believe Edge, when it's all said and done, isn't going to go down and be promoted as one of the greatest pro wrestlers to ever live? Do you really think that?

 

[Bernkastel]

Prove it.

[youtube]GGwBEZtJxZE[/youtube]

Austin as a heel, destroying the Hardys and Lita

He didn't even hesitate hitting Lita with the chair, and he didn't just hit her once but several times. If Austin was willing to do that to a woman, just imagine what he'd be willing to do to Edge if weapons become involved. Austin may not be as creative as Edge when it comes to weapons, but the man will not hesitate to use them. If Edge is dumb enough to try and use a weapon in this match against Austin, it'll more than likely backfire on him.

And even if weapons like chairs aren't used in the match, look at the way Austin normally operates. The guy was notorious for turning the entire ring into a weapon. He'd use the ringpost, the ring apron, the turnbuckles, the barriers and stairs on the outside. He'd be throwing Edge into the equipment at ringside and off the announce table.

There wouldn't be much that Edge could do but just survive against Austin. He probably wouldn't even get the opportunity to grasp a weapon if he wanted to use one.

The argument that Edge is more sadistic than Austin would be nullified

 

[jmt225]

Austin as a heel, destroying the Hardys and Lita

So, you're telling me... if Lita was with Matt Hardy and/or Jeff Hardy during Edge's feud with either individual, he wouldn't do the exact same thing? I think he would. And you know what? The video below proves my statement to be a fact.



Also, Edge speared the hell out of Lita once before when she was with the Hardys, in the TLC match at Summerslam 2000. So, please spare me with that example.

If you want an example from me as to why Edge is more sadistic… well let's just say that Austin has never used fire in any of his matches throughout his very long career. However, Edge has already shown to not only show no mercy by putting his opponent through a flaming table, but he put his own body through it as well. If that's not sadistic, then what is?

[youtube]WGJUkuCeuc8[/youtube]

 

[Uncle Sam]

I have forty five minutes before I have to go up. Minus the time needed for a shower... yeah, I think I got enough time.

Yeah... saying "What" and talking like a fucking redneck equals great mic skills, huh?

No, the ability to get the crowd involved on a massive level was what made him great. And to criticise his promos as "repetitive" is ridiculous; it sounds like it's coming from someone who's never watched a wrestling show in his life.

The Rock is unquestionably the greatest person on the mic in wrestling history, yet he was also easily the most repetitive. He had the versatility of a Little Britain sketch.

Besides, it's an irrelevant argument.

That's a VERY rare opinion, and a VERY wrong one at that. Sorry, but it's true. Edge/Matt Hardy cage match is probably the best cage match we've seen this decade,

On what basis? I mean, I haven't seen every cage match this decade, but I saw that match on the Edge DVD and it was pretty meh. Cage matches as a whole generally aren't great though.

Fake edit: No, wait. Edge/Angle was definitely better. Definitely this decade too.

Edge vs. RVD from Vengeance 2006 was FANTASTIC, Edge's matches against 'Taker were all great,

Edge has terrible, terrible chemistry with The Undertaker. The only good match they had was the TLC, and that was only because it was incredible how much shit had to happen for Taker to actually lose the match, which, coincidentally, consumed about ten minutes of the match.

Edge/Taker at Summerslam was just spot after spot after spot - and Edge never came close to putting Taker down. The WrestleMania match is only just a notch above Orton/Triple H, and I sincerely mean that. I only liked it because of old school Undertaker.

Edge's work against Jeff Hardy has been good, and he's BY FAR bought out the best in Cena.

That doesn't really explain why Edge's best matches - in his Rated R Superstar Era - are against Cena, and yet Cena's best matches aren't against Edge.

Like I said, Austin's best work is no where near Edge's best work and there's nothing you can post to prove otherwise because you know I'm right when I say that.

All I know is that his WrestleMania main events take an absolute shit over Edge's, but he was never in as many matches with ridiculous stipulations, I'll give you that.

As far as the win/loss deal... that is I must admit a good point. Austin's win-loss record has to be much better than Edge's. But that doesn't mean he would win this match. It's in ECW, where Edge is 1-0 and Austin is 0-1... so by your own logic, win/loss record at the end of the day favors Edge in this company.

Firstly, Edge's ECW record is 2-2.

Secondly, you undermined yourself in your previous post here. Austin was not in his prime in ECW. That Steve Austin is a shadow of the one Edge is facing in this match. The match is also conducted under WWE rules, not ECW ones. It's a non-factor.

What a horseshit statement, man. What was happening with Cena before he started feuding with Edge? Oh, that's right... he was getting booed out of the fucking building every single night. It wasn't until Edge came along when Cena FINALLY started getting cheers, and you know why that is? Because Edge is an incredible fucking heel and one of the best the business has ever seen.

Edge was booked to be an incredible heel. Cena might have been booed, but he was still the WWE's only bona fide main eventer by a long shot. Edge was given a dream feud to capitalise on with Matt Hardy, and he didn't. It wasn't until Cena made him look like gold and until he started using the most ridiculous heel tactics known to mankind that he actually got over.

So if someone throws a bunch of shit punches and kicks… that makes them a brawler?

Yes.

Maybe so, but that doesn't make them a good one.

How would you rate CM Punk?

Foley was a good brawler, Bruiser Brody was a good brawler... Austin is mediocre at best at it, while Edge is as tough as they come and can take whatever it is Austin can dish.

Jeff Hardy's pussy-ass punches seem to knock Edge for six. All Jeff does is jump about and flail.

Umm.. what the fuck? In no way, shape or form does that equal my statement.

You seemed to be suggesting that Edge is used to punches, so it wouldn't affect him.

Pro wrestling has evolved since Austin's era.

It hasn't really though, has it?

And my point was that someone who doesn't do anything but throw kicks and punches is going to get his ass kicked against someone like Edge.

Why the fuck did CM Punk kick the fuck out of him then? Dude doesn't do anything but kick or punch these days. Well, there's the lift before he knees people in the face.

But can Austin handle the hundreds of other ways Edge can defeat his ass?

Yes.

You see... my point is that Austin relies way too much on the Stunner, and when Edge takes it out of the equation, Austin is in trouble because he's too stupid and stubborn to switch up his game.

Stunner always works though. Not a problem.

False. Austin's one of the most hotheaded wrestlers in the history of the business.

Yeah, but no he isn't. He beats the fuck out of people, but he's perfectly calm while doing.

You cannot believe that Austin would defeat Raven in ECW, in Raven's prime. Please tell me you don't believe that.

I couldn't believe Edge could do it either, but here we are.

Actually, what's coming off as more ridiculous are people hating Edge, just because other people like him.

I really like Edge. I bought his DVD and one third of the reason I watch SmackDown is because of him. I just call it as I see it.

You aren't some big Austin fan; you just want Edge to lose because he has some die-hard fans here who were able to get him past Lesnar. And for the record, I voted for Lesnar, so I'm not one of these "blind" Edge fans that you and others seem to hate so much.

I'm not particularly bothered by Lesnar going out. True story. I would have liked him to have won, yeah, but I'm saying Austin would win here because Austin is leagues above Edge, no other reason.

In fact, let’s just say Austin is able to withstand Edge’s antics…

Which most wrestlers do 75% of the time.

So you don't believe Edge, when it's all said and done, isn't going to go down and be promoted as one of the greatest pro wrestlers to ever live? Do you really think that?

No. But Ric Flair is too. Swings and roundabouts.

Overall, your arguments are far-fetched and ridiculous. The vocabulary you use isn't fitting of a man that is barely capable of winning a third of his matches, and that's with him deploying some overly complex scheme.

 

[Bernkastel]

The video I provided was merely an example of the brutality Austin is capable of showing.

If you want an example from me as to why Edge is more sadistic… well let's just say that Austin has never used fire in any of his matches throughout his very long career.

And this is supposed to give Edge an advantage how? Kane has lit people on fire and been lit on fire himself, yet Austin has been able to incapacitate him with a beating.

So unless your suggesting that we'll see a flaming table spot in this match, I think this argument is pretty stupid

However, Edge has already shown to not only show no mercy by putting his opponent through a flaming table, but he put his own body through it as well. If that's not sadistic, then what is?

If anything it shows how stupid he his, he's risking his own body on a spot that may have not only finished his opponent but him as well.

And I fail to see how this makes Edge more sadistic than Stone Cold, like I said, if the match falls to the floor Austin will use anything and everything about his environment to inflict damage on Edge. The barriers, the stairs, the apron, the ringpost, hell Austin may even expose the concrete and give Edge a few slams on it.

It'll be all Edge can do but just survive.

this whole argument that Edge will do anything and everything it takes to win is ridiculous when Austin would be doing the same thing. The difference being that Edge will be looking for cheap shots, like eye poking, low blows, using the tights for leverage along with attempting to fight off Austin's constant barrage of attacks the entire match.

 

[The Todd]

Any argument that says that Stone Cold cannot hit the Stunner is absolutely ludicrous! It sounds like some crock of shit that Will would come up with.

No it is not. Watch WrestleMania 24, Edge vs Undertaker. Undertaker has plenty of signature moves which Edge scouted and reversed all at some point or other. He lost that match as Undertaker's arsenal is so varied the submission move finally finished Edge off.

With Austin he is not multi dimensional. He can batter Edge with Thesz presses, with his stomps, with his punches but to win he uses the Stunner. His ringmaster stuff isn't his prime. He uses the stunner. For the stunner he turns his back to his opponent. The Edge O'Matic is commonly used as a reversal and Austin showing his back to Edge calls out to Edge for him to use it.

I can't see how Austin puts Edge away so I will give it to Edge. A spear won't work on Austin, but five or six will. Edge wins but leaves with bruised ribs.

 

[Pimpin]

I've read every post there is so far on here & while there are alot of compelling arguments, with that being said i'm gonna have to sway my vote with Edge & here's why.

Sure Austin was great for the Attitude Era & he is my favorite from that era, but i'm going with Edge just based on being a better wrestler in-ring wise. Sure Austin is good i'm not gonna say he isn't cause he is one of my all time favorites, but Austin was a brawler type star(there is nothing wrong with that as it has brought him a shit load of success) during his popularity, meanwhile Edge has always been a wrestler & can beat you in numerous ways like with an Edgecution, Spear, Sharpshooter & other moves & that's why i'm placing my vote for Edge.

 

[Miko]

Whats wrong with being a brawler? No seriously what? If it wins you matches it wins you matches, and Austin is far better at winning matches than Edge.

Basically guys like CM Punk and Jeff Hardy have got Edge's number, he's pretty flukey against Batista and he can beat Cena with help. If he could do it alone, no interference even with dirty methods then I'd be more inclined to vote Edge.

Edge is the Ultimate Opportunist? Stone Cold Steve Austin once teamed up with Vince McMahon in order to win the title from The Rock. Austin hates McMahon but he saw what he needed to do and he did it. Austin's beaten some of the best names in history, not just beaten, but beaten the shit out of them as well, Undertaker, Kane (beast Kane, not chubby bald Kane), Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, HHH and The Rock.

People dont rate The Rock, probably for the same reason they dont rate Austin, he doesn't have enough moves. No seriously, thats it. Match quality wise he's league's ahead of Edge, put on some fucking classic's, Austin himself has put on some damn good matches as well, classic's even. Edge may have the most overrated matches of the modern era. Edge's best stuff comes with Taker and Cena, both of which have had better matches with Batista, HHH and HBK than they have had with Edge.

I said before that guy's like Punk and Hardy have Edge's number, anyone reckon they could beat Austin? Me neither. Who's had Austin's number? I am talking about Austin at his dominant peak, where he'd take on the Corporation or the Corporate Ministry himself? The Rock's come closest, and if it came down to Rock and Edge I know that my money would be on Rock. Stone Cold's moveset may not be bristling but I look at it the same way I look at Tekken, I know less moves than all my mates and yet I usually win.

Austin has whooped Undertaker and HHH numerous times, sometimes even in the same match when they were attempting to double team him, Edge is Taker and HHH's bitch, he's only ever beaten Taker in his speciality match with some help, no I mean a lot of help. If Edge gets help from past associates then I reckon some of Austin's friends will come down to make the save.

I dont discount Edge, he can bring it, I do discount his ability to win, Jeff Hardy and CM Punk being my most recent examples. Having Batista kick the shit out of him so much that he had to roll him back into the ring meaning that he missed the count himself dont do Edge any favours either, Austin's smarter than Batista, and meaner, he'd finish this one in the ring.

Unless he's got a couple of people willing to pretend to be him again or someone like Big Show's gonna plod in to help him then I think Edge is screwed in this match.

 

[Fizzy]

I understand that Edge's spear is relatively weak, especially if you compare it to other spears, such as the ones used by Batista, Goldberg, Rhino, etc. But you have to remember that in kayfabe terms, they are all on just about the same playing field. Yes, it may look weak, but it is placed at the same level. And even if it doesn't keep Austin down for a 3 count, it will at least give Edge an opening to take control of a match. Edge has used a Sharpshooter before, a move which Austin passed out while being held in and one that can be elevated to put pressure on the neck, which Austin has had broken. Edge will find a way to win, just like he seemingly always does.

Your comparing an Edge sharpshooter to fucking Bret Hart's sharpshooter? There is absolutely no comparison. That is another bullshit argument just like the conchairto one. Bret Hart was the king of the sharpshooter. Nobody knew how to put pressure on it like him.

 

[Fizzy]

I've read every post there is so far on here & while there are alot of compelling arguments, with that being said i'm gonna have to sway my vote with Edge & here's why.

Sure Austin was great for the Attitude Era & he is my favorite from that era, but i'm going with Edge just based on being a better wrestler in-ring wise. Sure Austin is good i'm not gonna say he isn't cause he is one of my all time favorites, but Austin was a brawler type star(there is nothing wrong with that as it has brought him a shit load of success) during his popularity, meanwhile Edge has always been a wrestler & can beat you in numerous ways like with an Edgecution, Spear, Sharpshooter & other moves & that's why i'm placing my vote for Edge.

Again with the three moves only you changed the third. Austin has kicked out of 2 rock bottoms and a peoples elbow in one match. he edgecution has beaten what one person since Edge has come back from his neck injury?

The Sharpshooter is bullshit for reasons explained in my other post. It won't make him pass out. Austin was bleeding bad when he passed out. Austin was facing the absolute king of the sharpshooter in that match. Edge cannot put a sharpshooter on like Bret could.

The spear. Weak move. Said it hundreds of times. One couldn't keep Austin down, and Austin isn't stupid. If hes on the mat for 5 minutes without being attacked by Edge it's fucking obvious the spear is coming. Even if he hits one it will not keep him down. The spear needs to get a running charge to hit Austin. The Stunner on the other hand can strike from anywhere.