MMA February Discussion is Disarming a "Girl-Rilla"

[AhSpicyDrop]

Someone stepped up to fight Chad Mendes; Clay Guida. They're going to fight at UFC on Fox 7. Should be a good fight that at the very least will force Clay to somewhat engage since his chances of securing every single takedown are going to be nullified.

I don't normally root for Mendes, but Guida has pissed me off so many times in his recent outings that I'm hoping Mendes gives him a taste of his own medicine in a way.

 

[wrestlingfan]

The takedown defense level of Junior dos Santos and Sergei Kharitonov is night and day. Cain Velasquez is the only person who has been able to take JDS down and even attempt to keep him there. You can't even compare Barnett's wrestling ability to Cain's because they're completely different styles. Cain relies on speed and a ridiculous power double that put even Brock Lesnar on his ass. Cain is younger, faster, and far more explosive than Josh Barnett is.

As far as Mir goes... He's useless against wrestlers with top control based on what? Brock Lesnar? It's already been proven that Lesnar is an absolute freak of nature, that was known before he ever even stepped foot into MMA. Josh Barnett wishes he had the physical gifts that Brock Lesnar has. The only other wrestler that has beaten Mir is Shane Carwin and that had nothing to do with wrestling, and everything to do with the fact that Carwin has concrete blocks for hands and had Mir pinned to the cage smashing his face with uppercuts. Barnett doesn't have the strength of Carwin or Lesnar, and he doesn't have the punching power of either.

You have this strange idea in your head that Josh Barnett is the same type of wrestler as Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez, and he's not. I would seriously suggest you go back and watch some more of Barnett's fights to get yourself acquainted with the differences between the two styles.

None of this really holds any water because Barnett isn't likely to sign with UFC, so unless Mir or JDS go to Bellator or Japan they'll probably never fight Josh.

Still that doesn't change the fact, JDS'S TD defense is rarely shown and has only been tested by Cain, in which again he was suspectible to the takedown.

And even if Barnett doesn't have the same punching power, he also has a great mount position, and still has enough power in his hand to KO people which he has done before, something Mir can't handle due to his bad chin.

Oh and I've seen a Josh Barnett HL. Although he doesn't do the amateur style he does still use double legs.

 

[Final Form Snyper.]

Don't foolishly put down Mir's guard.

This is very true. Frank Mir has submitted fighters in his guard because he keeps it active and while he is a 250 pound man, he has really surprising flexibility. He submitted Pete Williams with a Modified Shoulder Crank. Barnett would have to be wary of the guard. Not to mention that he sweeped Big Nog, got Side Control and took Nog's arm home with him after being rocked heavy.

I also agree that Josh's best chance will be on the feet because he has power and Mir has shown that he doesn't handle being struck very well. I also think that Mir has underrated striking. He dominated and dropped Big Nog in their first fight and stopped him with strikes, Nog is no slouch on the feet and has always had reasonably tidy Boxing. Frank Mir was also able to knockdown Cheick Kongo with a single strike. It's just that people see how versitile his ground game is and it is so many levels above his striking that people often look down on it because of that. I am a big fan of Josh and always have been but I think Mir takes this.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Still that doesn't change the fact, JDS'S TD defense is rarely shown and has only been tested by Cain, in which again he was suspectible to the takedown.

Rarely shown? Did you completely miss his fights with Carwin, Nelson, and Mir, who all made attempts to take him down but failed so they gave up and tried to stand with him? Cain couldn't even keep dos Santos on the mat once he got him there until Junior gassed out. Josh Barnett doesn't have the gas tank that Cain has.

And even if Barnett doesn't have the same punching power, he also has a great mount position, and still has enough power in his hand to KO people which he has done before, something Mir can't handle due to his bad chin.

I can almost guarantee you one thing about a Mir/Barnett fight, and that's Barnett wouldn't be able to pass Mir's guard. The only person Barnett has KO'd standing on the feet in recent history is Pedro Rizzo and that's not really much of a feat these days considering Pedro is fighting for the money, doesn't really care about being competitive, and is essentially living off of what he's done, not what he can do.

Also don't really understand where all this "bad chin" shit is coming from either... Almost every fighter at heavyweight is at risk of being knocked out if they get hit... It's the principle that there's 200+ lbs of force riding behind a punch that makes it possible. Does Cain also have a weak chin because he was dropped by Cheick Kongo several times, or KO'd by Junior dos Santos? Mir took several hard shots from dos Santos before he was TKO'd... Hardly a sign of a weak chin considering dos Santos is considered to the be the most technical striker in the heavyweight division.

By your same theory then Barnett must also have a weak chin because Mirko and Pedro KO or TKO'd him. I think a better choice of words would be "Mir has poor striking defense" instead of calling out his chin.

Oh and I've seen a Josh Barnett HL. Although he doesn't do the amateur style he does still use double legs.

Almost every fighter, even if they have no wrestling backbround, use double and single leg takedowns... That doesn't make them effective. And I would wager that the majority of those you seen in a highlight video were from his younger years. Highlight videos never tell a clear story, they just show the triumphs. For every one of those double legs he succeeded at there was probably 4-5 that he failed. And for the record, I made mention of Barnett using double legs, but he does so out of desperation usually when he's gassed out(which happens quite often).

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Cyborg has officially been cut from the UFC. Congratulations to Tito Ortiz for ruining her career as her options are severely limited.

There were those WWE rumors a long time ago, but as Dana and Ronda stated, Cyborg is really irrelevent now where adding her to the roster won't really gain any publicity.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

The WWE could easily build her up. It wouldn't be hard to spin it to casuals that she was so dangerous that no one wanted to fight her. Probably wouldn't matter given the current state of the divas division, but they could do it.

I think Tito is partially to blame, but I think in the end most of it falls on her manly shoulders. You had Dolce saying he could get her to 135, but everyone in her camp said no. Dana came out earlier this week and said she could get to 135 if she got off 'roids. Bellator has held women's fights in the past but they don't have women signed to contracts. I have no idea where she goes, maybe porn.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Tito Ortiz is a moron. He spent so many years ruining his own career, and now he's helping other people ruin theirs. Why would the UFC risk putting their champion in a 140lb catch weight fight? If Ronda took the fight and lost, she would immediately lose credibility, and the title division would be useless. It might be worth doing after Ronda beats a few contenders and the division gets a little bit of depth... But it would literally kill women's MMA right out of the gate if she lost to someone that had no intention of dropping to her weight class.

As far as the WWE rumors go, that would be a terrible move on Vince's part. She's got no ring skills, and her star power was never anything to brag about. She isn't going to be marketable for them in terms of looks because being honest she looks like a roided up horse face. Anybody remember when she did that Model photo shoot, and they tried to make her look attractive? She looked like a tranny with too much makeup, and had a smile that would break the most durable of mirrors.

If WWE wanted to hire someone to dominate their division they'd be better off bringing back Kong, at least she can work safely.

I guess she could go the route you suggested, Yaz, and make some porn. I bet Chyna would be up for making a movie with her. But I can see Bellator AND TNA jumping all over this and booking her like they're using King Mo. Bellator doesn't have to have competitive women to market her. Hell, the vast majority of Bellator's roster consists of cans and average-at-best fighters anyway, with a few good fighters that they're holding hostage. Most of their star power comes from UFC wash-outs. I'd say Bellator is the next stop, and maybe some TNA Knockout action.

 

[Fizzy]

If you guys haven't heard, the UFC recently discovered a loophole that would permit them to host events in New York State. Today a judge ruled the trial in favor of the UFC. This means the UFC can begin holding events in New York State immediately.

It's finally happened, guys. Take this moment in and cherish it.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Did anybody watch Bellator last night? As I promised Doug Marshall delivered on another exciting fight. That was absolutely beautiful.

I guess I have to eat crow on the whole Dantas/Galvao being boring though... I won't judge so hard when two teammates fight in the future. Dantas absolutely demolished his own teammate.

If you guys haven't heard, the UFC recently discovered a loophole that would permit them to host events in New York State. Today a judge ruled the trial in favor of the UFC. This means the UFC can begin holding events in New York State immediately.

It's finally happened, guys. Take this moment in and cherish it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the loophole had to do with amateur MMA only. In theory the UFC could put on a fight and govern it themselves, but at the same time that might hurt them in the future. The elbow nudging has been going on for ages in New York over legalizing MMA. If they were to go around the state and put on a fight they could very well damage their future chances for getting it legalized. Also, there's nothing stopping them from making changes to close the loophole. Dana would probably have a breakdown if he went through all the trouble of promoting a New York event only to have it blow up in his face.

It's only a matter of time before New York gets on board. They've been more and more talkative about it, especially after they've seen the money train's smoke trail all across the country. But I really think UFC going behind the state's back will put a black eye on the entire situation which is why I seriously doubt it will happen. That's not to say some other smaller promotions might not though... I just hope nothing happens to any of those fighters physically during their fights to ruin the chances of them eventually making it legal.

That being said I would love to see a UFC in Madison Square Garden. That arena is magic.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

With the news that Cyborg has signed with Invicta, there are reports that the door to the UFC is still open. I've read they want her to have roughly three fights in Invicta and if it goes well they will bring her to the UFC, though there is no guaranteed title shot.

I know just a couple days ago I wasn't as harsh on Tito as others, but the more than comes out the more it looks like he is totally fucking her career. It's fucking Tito, I should have known better.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Well, the Fuel card is in the books, and since I have been at work I haven't seen anything besides results.

To anyone who saw the card... Is it worth me taking the time to watch it tonight? Is it something I can wait til I get really bored to watch? Is there any particular fight I should rush to see on its own? Any feedback appreciated.

I was expecting more fireworks then what seems to have happened(but I did pretty well with the predictions anyway, so that's good. )

 

[Richard Blonoff]

The main card wasn't bad. You can probably save it for tomorrow since there is nothing must see, but it was solid. The Jimmo/Te Huna fight was a slugfest, and Cub/Dustin was a good 15 technical affair. Main event was about what you expect out of 135ers, some interesting moments, nothing boring, but solid.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

-Josh Grispi is seriously starting to live up to his moniker "The Fluke"... Dude went from being one of the brightest prospects to most likely being cut from the UFC. I thought this would have been his turn-around fight but he got absolutely owned by Andy Ogle.

-Gunnar Nelson is going to be a force in the welterweight division once he gets a little bit more experience under his belt. Beating Santiago is never an easy task. For a 24 year old he seems extremely confident in there.

-Kind of a disappointing end to Diabate/Manuwa - I really had high hopes for an all out war between those two.

-Cub is arguably in the worst position as a featherweight right now. He's on a four fight winning streak and all four wins are against guys at the higher end of the division... But with his 8 second thrashing loss to Aldo, the decision loss to Mendes, and losing recently to Lamas means he's likely a long ways from a title shot. Might be a good time for him to drop down and test the bantamweight waters if he wants a title shot.

-Barao looks unbeatable. I'm hoping Cruz can get healthy and stay that way so these two can decide the real bantamweight champion.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

-Josh Grispi is seriously starting to live up to his moniker "The Fluke"... Dude went from being one of the brightest prospects to most likely being cut from the UFC. I thought this would have been his turn-around fight but he got absolutely owned by Andy Ogle.

I had such high hopes for Grispi considering he's one of the few MMA fighters from Massachusetts. He looked so promising in the WEC, and he's not the same fighter he was in the UFC. I think something is getting at him mentally. He trains out of a very tiny camp in Massachusetts, he might need to go branch out to one of the bigger camps or even Lauzon's camp.

-Gunnar Nelson is going to be a force in the welterweight division once he gets a little bit more experience under his belt. Beating Santiago is never an easy task. For a 24 year old he seems extremely confident in there.

I'd like to see him get the winner of Koscheck/Lawler. Erick Silva might have lost to Fitch but that was a loss that will help him in the long run. I think that would be a similar situation where a win shows he is legit and a loss wouldn't hurt him too much.

-Cub is arguably in the worst position as a featherweight right now. He's on a four fight winning streak and all four wins are against guys at the higher end of the division... But with his 8 second thrashing loss to Aldo, the decision loss to Mendes, and losing recently to Lamas means he's likely a long ways from a title shot. Might be a good time for him to drop down and test the bantamweight waters if he wants a title shot.

What sucks is that the division is on hold until August. The winner of Aldo/Pettis might not fight again this year after that point for all we know. The loss Swanson had against Lamas was after a one year layoff and he caught fire after that point. I don't think the 8 second loss is too much of a strike against him at this point. The UFC is willing to give rematches to guys in title fights (Velasquez, Bigfoot) despite the fact that they may have lost badly in their first meeting.

Mini Tournament Time. Book Edgar vs. Swanson and Lamas vs. TKZ. Have the winners fight each other for #1 Contendership. That being said, with Bantamweight not being a deep division at all, I'm surprised more guys at Featherweight aren't dropping down, especially with the influx of top lightweights (Edgar, Guida, Pettis, and even Siver) making their way down to Featherweight.

-Barao looks unbeatable. I'm hoping Cruz can get healthy and stay that way so these two can decide the real bantamweight champion.

Kenny kept bringing it up last night, but we're going to be treated to some great Bantamweight fights for a long time with Barao, Cruz, and McDonald at the top of the division. One thing I just realized - Barao is quietly cleaning out the division with wins over Pickett, Jorgensen, Faber, and now McDonald. He's truly on his way to becoming an elite fighter and I cannot wait for the Cruz matchup.

Other notes:

This comes from Meltzer and if this is any indication, we're in for a hysterical ride going in to UFC 158, which is just a month away.

According to Dana White tonight, they had sent a film crew to Stockton for two weeks to shoot the Countdown for UFC 158, and Nick Diaz thus far has no-showed three interviews.

White said that it's going to be hard to promote the fight to the level it should be promoted if one of the participants isn't doing their part.

I knew that finally getting GSP vs. Diaz was too good to be true because eventually, Nick would wind up being a shithead. I have a feeling that UFC 158 will eventually be known as "St. Pierre vs. Hendricks". Strap in.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Well, from a competitive aspect I would rather see Hendricks and St. Pierre. You can pretty much already guess accurately how Diaz and St. Pierre is going to end.. Diaz is a volume striker and has gotten owned by plenty of wrestlers, and none of them were at the level that St. Pierre is. So his chances of KO'ing or even TKO'ing St. Pierre is pretty slim. GSP is going to lay on Diaz for 5 rounds, possibly even TKO him via cut since Diaz is so prone to bleeding.

With Hendricks you never know... Dude has dynamite in his hands and he's one of the best wrestlers in the welterweight division, and should rightfully be the #1 contender. I've seen people making the argument that Hendricks lost to Koscheck, which is absurd. It was a close fight, and the judges went with Hendricks... That versus Diaz losing decisively to Condit for 5 rounds... yeah, I'd say Hendricks deserves it. Hell, Hendricks has already put some work in on promoting the fight... so if something does happen with Diaz I would totally be stoked to see Johnny step in.

Diaz getting the title fight is just another example of UFC caring more about money fights instead of rational rankings fights... Which is pretty funny considering all the shit that Dana has spewed about boxing over the years for them doing the same thing. Dana can use the whole "Georges wanted the fight, he never asks for anything, and you can't tell Georges no" argument all he wants, but at the end of the day it's all about the money... Too bad it's not going to make as much because Diaz doesn't get on board with the promotional hype train.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Hendricks may not be a draw yet but he went through three top 5 guys in Fitch, Koscheck, and Kampmann. I always thought that he deserved the shot. A GSP card is going to do at minimum, 700K buys. And I think Nick Diaz's popularity is pretty overrated where I don't think he's going to be the needle mover that everyone thinks he's going to be for this GSP fight. Diaz vs. Penn didn't too that well buyrate wise and Condit vs. Diaz didn't do that great either especially considering that was the Super Bowl weekend card.

I find GSP/Hendricks so interesting - Diaz hasn't fought a WRESTLER in forever. We all know what is going to happen.

GSP has to avoid the home run shot for 5 rounds... I find that so much more interesting for a fight.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I agree. Diaz/GSP is the money fight, but Diaz has a history with losing to wrestling, both brothers do. Hendricks has awesome power in his left hand and while he isn't as explosive a wrestler as GSP, he is damn good. He is also more likely to stick to a game plan than what Kos did.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

If you're a fighter, there are two things you must learn.

1.) Never sign with Bellator unless you want to be their property for the rest of your career with no way out.

2.) Never let Tito Ortiz manage your career. If you thought he mismanaged Cyborg's career so far, he took it a whole other level.

"We were going to sign her to a contract and then we were going to have her fight in Invicta – which means we'd pay all the bills for her to fight in Invicta. She'd be under a UFC contract with all the perks and benefits of being a UFC fighter, and would fight in Invicta. So instead of doing that, they chose to not do that and fight in Invicta. If you can make logic out of that whole f**king situation, you're a better man than I."

"We don't have a 145-pound division, so we're going back and forth with these guys in the deal. So I called Shannon Knapp, who owns Invicta, and said, 'Listen, if I do this deal with Cyborg, can you give her fights over there? I'll pay the bills, and you put on some fights over there till I can figure out how this whole thing is going to go down?' She said absolutely, no problem, we'd love to do it. The next thing I know, Tito wants out of the contract and they sign with her."

Basically, she would have gotten health insurance, higher pay (most likely), promotion by the UFC for her Invicta fights, etc. Now she gets NONE of that and is with Invicta anyway.

Tito is so horrendously bad as a manager.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

People seem genuinely surprised that Tito is a terrible manager... This is a guy who basically left the UFC because he felt he was "bigger than them" and thought he could single-handedly make Strikeforce a direct competition... Then, when Frank Shamrock and Tito couldn't come to terms on a fight agreement he went begging back to Dana because he knew there was no money fights in Strikeforce.

He's been a constant bad businessman pretty much from the point that he broke away from Dana(when he was managing Chuck and Tito), and took over his own entity.

The deal sounded pretty sweet to me... It would have essentially been like the contract Dana had with Liddell where he let Chuck go fight in PRIDE. If I were Cyborg I'd be figuring a way out of the contract with Tito, because he's seriously hurting her career.

 

[Papa Pillman]

I totally agree with everyone on the Hendricks/GSP fight. In fact I had the same discussion in last month's thread.

Here were my thoughts then...

Hendricks has successfully defended 16 of 23 takedown attempts in the octagon despite facing several great wrestlers. And he has scored 24 takedowns against those same opponents, despite winning four matches with quick brutal knockouts with his "Left" hand dynamite.

Where the matchup is bad for GSP is in one of his strengths. Georges confounds so many opponents by staying at range where he is often protected but can close quickly from with punches or takedowns. That same range is where Hendricks is dangerous. If GSP tries to retreat straight back quickly (something he still does often, because he did it repeatedly against Condit) Hendricks is very adept at closing that range to land big left bombs, just like what happened when he blew up Fitch.

GSP will struggle more to take Hendricks down than he does with most. He will struggle more to keep him down than he does with most, especially if he tries to pass giving Johny a chance to scramble to his feet or reverse position. And while standing Johny proposes a different set of problems than anyone GSP has fought with his power and ability to manipulate range from the same distances where Georges is comfortable.

Also to think GSP could avoid getting hit in the face for 5 rounds is speculative. He get hit alot against Condit(admittedly a far more advanced technical striker than Hendricks). He also got hit alot against Sheilds prior to the "impairment of vision", and Hendricks ever improving standup technique is vastly better than Sheild's standup.

The only way GSP wins against Hendricks is to score takedowns early in each round and work from the top in full guard the whole round without passing, so he can control the score cards. If its close and goes the distance GSP will get the benefit of the doubt, as the judges award champs, and also have a history of short-changing Hendricks(the fact that one of the judges picked Kos in their fight is a travesty).

To me Hendricks is the biggest challenge for GSP in the division right now. I don't think Diaz is a clear win for GSP by any stretch, but I think he is a far safer fight for GSP.

But giving Nick the shot was easy booking for the UFC, Diaz is the money fight, and it is more likely that maybe your biggest money champ stays with the strap a couple extra months. Giving Hendricks the fight he deserves endangers GSP and his title reign. They want to hold off on that for as long as possible.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

And Rory MacDonald is out of the Condit fight with an injury.

What a bummer. I imagine Maia might be the first call at this point considering he took absolutely no damage in the Fitch fight.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

And Rory MacDonald is out of the Condit fight with an injury.

What a bummer. I imagine Maia might be the first call at this point considering he took absolutely no damage in the Fitch fight.

Maia would be a solid replacement, and really he's the only replacement unless they want to cancel the Koscheck/Lawler fight...

However, I would honestly throw Tyrone Woodley into the mix and see what he can do against Condit. I firmly believe that T-Wood could hang with all the top dogs in the division... But for the sake of a name Maia would probably be the best bet.

 

[jmt225]

Basically, she would have gotten health insurance, higher pay (most likely), promotion by the UFC for her Invicta fights, etc. Now she gets NONE of that and is with Invicta anyway.

Tito is so horrendously bad as a manager.

Tito had to most likely think it was a scam and that Dana would have just kept her on the shelf as long as she was under contract. That's the only reasonable explanation as to why he wouldn't sign a deal like that.

 

[jmt225]

Johnny Hendricks is being bumped up to the co-main event to replace Rory MacDonald against Carlos Condit.

Great fight. Love the decision. If Hendricks wins this, then I will no longer be able to call his little streak here a fluke. It doesn't matter if he knocks Condit out immediately or takes him down and lays on him... if he beats Condit, then he is legit and I can't deny it anymore.

That said, I think Condit is going to crush him.

 

[Fizzy]

Hendricks is a fraud. Just somebody with a huge right hand. Go on about his wrestling credentials and what not, blah blah blah. He got laid on by Rick Story. That's all that needs to be said about that.

Condit ends this fluke of a run.