MMA February Discussion is Disarming a "Girl-Rilla"

[AhSpicyDrop]

Memorial Day Weekend is rumored to have these matches:

1.) Velasquez vs. Bigfoot
2.) Dos Santos vs. Overeem

While I'm psyched for JDS/Overeem, a fight that should be awesome, I really don't have too much interest in watching Velasquez murder Bigfoot again.

Overeem is probably going to get knocked into next week as long as JDS doesn't gas out again and has his head straight.

I'm with you on Bigfoot getting murdered again. Velasquez is quite possibly the worst stylistic match for him at heavyweight. Bigfoot might last a little longer this time but I'm pretty positive that the end result will be the same, a TKO for Cain.

Overeem/JDS is a toss-up... It's been a long time since Overeem got jacked up as bad as he did against Bigfoot... And dos Santos suffered his first loss in the Octagon. Difficult to say how the two will approach the next fight. I just hope neither is too gun shy to put on the fight we all want to see out of them. dos Santos is a much more technical striker than Bigfoot, so I would say if Overeem gets lazy he's going out like a light.

I think Bigfoot will last more than three minutes against Cain this time, but there are guys you could build as contenders outside of those four right now.

There's really not many other credible options right now. You have the winner of Struve/Hunt, which realistically neither has a prayers chance of beating Velasquez. I'd give Hunt a chance if JDS had the belt just on the fact that Hunt has one of the most ridiculous chins in the history of humankind. Struve on the other hand has arguably the worst chin at heavyweight, and he's got long legs which means Cain will dump him on his ass at will, and likely pummel him before he has a chance to do any sort of neutralizing.

You could make a case for Werdum if he beats Big Nog, I suppose. Cormier's already said he wouldn't fight Cain so that option is out the window.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Bigfoot was rushed way too early into a title shot. Should've got some wins over Nelson & Mir maybe.

 

[Papa Pillman]

Bigfoot was rushed way too early into a title shot. Should've got some wins over Nelson & Mir maybe.

The problem is that they're booked already. The whole top of the division is. Nelson has Kongo. Mir has Cormier. Struve has Hunt. Werdum has Nog. This is a case of the UFC banking too much on 'Reem beating Bigfoot. Now that Bigfoot has knocked him out, he himself has become the only logical contender. If not give Silva the shot than it's either shuffle your other fights or just hold up the title waiting for the right challenger to emerge.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

Man I am going to miss Mike Goldberg when he retires. He can be so bad, but man I love him.

[YOUTUBE]UQd0dhfFoUQ[/YOUTUBE]

 

[wrestlingfan]

The problem is that they're booked already. The whole top of the division is. Nelson has Kongo. Mir has Cormier. Struve has Hunt. Werdum has Nog. This is a case of the UFC banking too much on 'Reem beating Bigfoot. Now that Bigfoot has knocked him out, he himself has become the only logical contender. If not give Silva the shot than it's either shuffle your other fights or just hold up the title waiting for the right challenger to emerge.

If only Barnett signed.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

If only Barnett signed.

I love Josh Barnett, but realistically he's done nothing against top competition since his PRIDE days; unless of course you still consider Pedro Rizzo or Jeff Monson relevant to the modern MMA landscape. He would be a great gatekeeper for the division and he'd likely always stay in the top 10-15, but he would never beat the top of the division. The last guy he beat that I would even consider well-rounded is Sergei, and Sergei hardly has amazing takedown defense. He's in no position to come in the door and be given a title shot right out of the gate; even with his former UFC title reign. Most fans in the modern UFC audience have no idea who he is, and those that do realize he just got beaten by Daniel Cormier.

Plus considering Dana hates Barnett for a lot of the same reasons he hates Frank Shamrock, I just can't see those two being able to work alongside one another. And it should be mentioned that Barnett's way of selling a fight is talking about murdering his opponent and other character-based psychotic ramblings, which are entertaining but would probably cause Dana and the PR department to have collective aneurisms. Barnett will end up either working for Bellator or going back to Japan to alternate between pro wrestling and crushing cans. And for the sake of competition I will gladly welcome him to Bellator over UFC. At the end of the day the major issue preventing Barnett from signing with the UFC is he values himself as being worth way more than Dana and company are willing to shell out to him. They don't need him, but for Bellator it would be worth the money because they're growing.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

The thing with Barnett was that they did agree on a monetary value on a contract, it was the fact that there were unknown clauses in the deal that wound up making it fall apart.

If I were to guess, it probably had something to do with random drug testing.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

The thing with Barnett was that they did agree on a monetary value on a contract, it was the fact that there were unknown clauses in the deal that wound up making it fall apart.

If I were to guess, it probably had something to do with random drug testing.

I hadn't heard about the money agreement... Last I heard is Dana said it was "likely to happen". If they agreed on money and the deal still fell through I would venture to say you're probably right on the randoms.

 

[Papa Pillman]

If only Barnett signed.

Mr. Warmaster is still negotiating with the UFC, so far he has turned them down. According to his agent it's not about money either. They were happy with the UFC's first monetary offer. Apparently there is another sticking point in the contract that is holding it up, but neither side will reveal what that is.

If anyone knows or has a educated speculation on that "sticking point", I'd love to hear it.

Either way, there is nothing that would justify him just walking in and getting a title shot, not over Bigfoot, or any other top guy. I suspect Dana will make Josh clearly earn a shot before he ever is considered for one. Giving Barnett(if he signs) a second shot at Cormier after he's done with Mir would seem to make more sense to me considering that Cormier won't be fighting for the title while it's Cain's anyway.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Personally I've always wanted to see Barnett fight Frank Mir for some reason. That match-up has always seemed intriguing. Could be because they both have similar styles of trash-talking and they'll break something if they have to for a win.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Few random notes:

Ryan Couture's first UFC fight will be against Ross Pearson. That's a stiff test, but he handled himself pretty decently against KJ Noons, and while Pearson is better than Noons, it's pretty much the same type of style where Couture could sneak a decision. I feel like a lot of people are overrating Pearson based off his last fight where he KO'ed George Sotiropoulos, but G-Sot hasn't been good in years.

Manny Gamburyan is out of UFC 157 and Mendes is without an opponent. He challenged Lamas, but Lamas stated he's already booked for May (maybe against TKZ?) Regardless, they'll probably give Mendes another can to destroy, not like it's much of a change as Gamburyan is pretty much a glorified can at this stage anyway.

Tito Ortiz is saying that Cyborg has asked for her release from the UFC. They're probably bluffing but regardless I can see the UFC calling her on it and granting her release from the company. Mike Dolce has stated that he can get her to 135... it's probably the fact that she doesn't want to get off roids. I don't know why you'd employ Tito as your manager in the first place...

 

[Papa Pillman]

Ryan Couture's first UFC fight will be against Ross Pearson. That's a stiff test, but he handled himself pretty decently against KJ Noons, and while Pearson is better than Noons, it's pretty much the same type of style where Couture could sneak a decision.

Of course they gave him a British fighter for his first fight, he's a wrestler. I will say though that Ross seems to have steadily improved his wrestling defense(which IMO has always been solid for a Brit anyway, sorry for the stereotype).

He challenged Lamas, but Lamas stated he's already booked for May (maybe against TKZ?)

Chan-Sung Jung against Ricardo Lamas? Where do I sign up?!? And if that isn't a title eliminator I don't know what is.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Ryan Couture's first UFC fight will be against Ross Pearson. That's a stiff test, but he handled himself pretty decently against KJ Noons, and while Pearson is better than Noons, it's pretty much the same type of style where Couture could sneak a decision. I feel like a lot of people are overrating Pearson based off his last fight where he KO'ed George Sotiropoulos, but G-Sot hasn't been good in years.

I thought KJ won that fight pretty decisively. Pearson is overrated, but I think he'll knock the hell out of Couture on the feet. I wouldn't be surprised if UFC cuts Couture after he loses either considering the fact that Randy is once again on the outs with them. You know how Dana likes to punish people for others "mistakes".

Manny Gamburyan is out of UFC 157 and Mendes is without an opponent. He challenged Lamas, but Lamas stated he's already booked for May (maybe against TKZ?) Regardless, they'll probably give Mendes another can to destroy, not like it's much of a change as Gamburyan is pretty much a glorified can at this stage anyway.

Lamas/Zombie makes a lot of sense to me, since they fast-tracked Pettis to the title. But Zombie was calling out the winner of Swanson/Poirier so who knows? I would hate to see Lamas/Mendes at this point because I feel like Ricardo has earned his title shot, and Mendes' style could very easily allow him to wrestlefuck a decision out. I don't want to see Mendes back in the title picture again until he's a more refined fighter.

Tito Ortiz is saying that Cyborg has asked for her release from the UFC. They're probably bluffing but regardless I can see the UFC calling her on it and granting her release from the company. Mike Dolce has stated that he can get her to 135... it's probably the fact that she doesn't want to get off roids. I don't know why you'd employ Tito as your manager in the first place...

I think it's hilarious how Rousey vs. Cyborg turned into another edition of Dana White vs. Tito Ortiz... If Cyborg does leave the UFC where the hell does she go where she can make that kind of money? Maybe a Japanese org could pick her up and start running freakshow Cyborg vs. Men fights.

 

[wrestlingfan]

I love Josh Barnett, but realistically he's done nothing against top competition since his PRIDE days; unless of course you still consider Pedro Rizzo or Jeff Monson relevant to the modern MMA landscape. He would be a great gatekeeper for the division and he'd likely always stay in the top 10-15, but he would never beat the top of the division. The last guy he beat that I would even consider well-rounded is Sergei, and Sergei hardly has amazing takedown defense. He's in no position to come in the door and be given a title shot right out of the gate; even with his former UFC title reign. Most fans in the modern UFC audience have no idea who he is, and those that do realize he just got beaten by Daniel Cormier.

Plus considering Dana hates Barnett for a lot of the same reasons he hates Frank Shamrock, I just can't see those two being able to work alongside one another. And it should be mentioned that Barnett's way of selling a fight is talking about murdering his opponent and other character-based psychotic ramblings, which are entertaining but would probably cause Dana and the PR department to have collective aneurisms. Barnett will end up either working for Bellator or going back to Japan to alternate between pro wrestling and crushing cans. And for the sake of competition I will gladly welcome him to Bellator over UFC. At the end of the day the major issue preventing Barnett from signing with the UFC is he values himself as being worth way more than Dana and company are willing to shell out to him. They don't need him, but for Bellator it would be worth the money because they're growing.

I still think Barnett could beat some of the top guys (JDS, Mir, etc). Guy is still an elite HW, which is what the UFC needs

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I still think Barnett could beat some of the top guys (JDS, Mir, etc). Guy is still an elite HW, which is what the UFC needs

I'm not making any debate against him being an elite heavyweight. I'm a big fan of Barnett's. But I also realize his limitations.

His style of wrestling is pretty much tailor made to get him knocked out against dos Santos. He's pretty dependent on getting in close and tripping opponents into dominant positions. dos Santos' best weapons are keeping distance and uppercuts. Cain is the only guy that's been able to put dos Santos on his back and keep him there, and his style of wrestling is power double legs, which Barnett can't pull off. That being said I would give Barnett a good chance of submitting dos Santos if he was able to get him to the ground... I just see a JDS/Barnett fight going exactly like JDS/Mir.

Barnett/Mir would be a toss-up, but I would still say Mir would win the fight based on how effective he is off of his back with submissions. The way he beat Nogueira the second time is just ridiculous. Mir is better in the standup department than Barnett as well.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I thought KJ won that fight pretty decisively. Pearson is overrated, but I think he'll knock the hell out of Couture on the feet. I wouldn't be surprised if UFC cuts Couture after he loses either considering the fact that Randy is once again on the outs with them. You know how Dana likes to punish people for others "mistakes".

I thought it was close. I don't think the result was as offensive as a lot made it out to be but I would have scored it for Noons too. But Couture definitely held his own with a good fighter like Noons is. Papa Pillman brought up a great point about Pearson's TDD being really good for a Brit, but he hasn't really fought a guy with a wrestling base like Couture really ever in the UFC which is why I find this matchup so interesting.

Anyway, I think he'll get at least three fights provided he doesn't get blown out badly. The Couture name is definitely one Dana can still make money off of, and I think he respects the fact that he didn't make the jump to Bellator to be with his dad and be a big fish in a small pond.

Speaking of Couture, not only can you look like a douchebag but you can smell like one too with Randy's new cologne (PS nice midlife crisis tattoo, Randy):

I think it's hilarious how Rousey vs. Cyborg turned into another edition of Dana White vs. Tito Ortiz... If Cyborg does leave the UFC where the hell does she go where she can make that kind of money? Maybe a Japanese org could pick her up and start running freakshow Cyborg vs. Men fights.

She definitely doesn't have too many options besides Invicta and she might have difficulty getting a job there too... Shannon Knapp and Dana are friendly, and who knows if Dana attempts to blackball her from the industry. Plus the fact that Cyborg has to be seen as a risk at this point given the issues with PEDs. Japan might be Cyborg's only option. And now I want to see freakshow Cyborg fights too with that comment. Give me Cyborg/Minowaman or give me death.

 

[wrestlingfan]

I'm not making any debate against him being an elite heavyweight. I'm a big fan of Barnett's. But I also realize his limitations.

His style of wrestling is pretty much tailor made to get him knocked out against dos Santos. He's pretty dependent on getting in close and tripping opponents into dominant positions. dos Santos' best weapons are keeping distance and uppercuts. Cain is the only guy that's been able to put dos Santos on his back and keep him there, and his style of wrestling is power double legs, which Barnett can't pull off. That being said I would give Barnett a good chance of submitting dos Santos if he was able to get him to the ground... I just see a JDS/Barnett fight going exactly like JDS/Mir.

Barnett/Mir would be a toss-up, but I would still say Mir would win the fight based on how effective he is off of his back with submissions. The way he beat Nogueira the second time is just ridiculous. Mir is better in the standup department than Barnett as well.

I don't know. Catch Wrestling mixes Cain's style of wrestling with BJJ. And Barnett has a great chin also.

Yes but Barnett in the mount is scary. And I would go with Barnett in the standup. Better chin, and was able to hold his own against Sergei.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

I don't know. Catch Wrestling mixes Cain's style of wrestling with BJJ. And Barnett has a great chin also.

Yes but Barnett in the mount is scary. And I would go with Barnett in the standup. Better chin, and was able to hold his own against Sergei.

Catch wrestling is Greco Roman style mixed with Judo. It's all about close quarters grappling meshed with using your opponents weight against them. Barnett almost never shoots for double legs because he lacks the speed to make them effective. Catch isn't really based much on BJJ so much as it is submission wrestling. There was actually a big feud in Japan between the Catch/Pro Wrestlers and the traditional Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys. Completely different forms despite using some of the same submissions. Barnett is terrible off of his back, and any time he's been there he's looked extremely uncomfortable. Also, Mirko Cro Cop showed the blue print for beating Barnett in 2 of their 3 fights... Not counting the fight where Barnett dislocated his shoulder and lost by TKO.

And yeah, Barnett is scary in the mount but if he can't get somebody to the ground then that's pretty much nullified. He didn't hold his own against Sergei either. He ate several hard shots, which gives credence to your statement that Barnett has a great chin. The thing is Sergei wasn't able to put as much confidence into his punches because he had to worry about being taken down, which he was. Holding his own means he was trading shots with Sergei, and clearly he was not. He took him down just as soon as there was an opening.

When it comes to Mir, Frank wouldn't have to worry about being taken down because he's most comfortable being on his back.

 

[wrestlingfan]

Catch wrestling is Greco Roman style mixed with Judo. It's all about close quarters grappling meshed with using your opponents weight against them. Barnett almost never shoots for double legs because he lacks the speed to make them effective. Catch isn't really based much on BJJ so much as it is submission wrestling. There was actually a big feud in Japan between the Catch/Pro Wrestlers and the traditional Brazilian Jiu Jitsu guys. Completely different forms despite using some of the same submissions. Barnett is terrible off of his back, and any time he's been there he's looked extremely uncomfortable. Also, Mirko Cro Cop showed the blue print for beating Barnett in 2 of their 3 fights... Not counting the fight where Barnett dislocated his shoulder and lost by TKO.

And yeah, Barnett is scary in the mount but if he can't get somebody to the ground then that's pretty much nullified. He didn't hold his own against Sergei either. He ate several hard shots, which gives credence to your statement that Barnett has a great chin. The thing is Sergei wasn't able to put as much confidence into his punches because he had to worry about being taken down, which he was. Holding his own means he was trading shots with Sergei, and clearly he was not. He took him down just as soon as there was an opening.

When it comes to Mir, Frank wouldn't have to worry about being taken down because he's most comfortable being on his back.

Which means JDS would be putting worry into his shots considering, he would be suspectible of the takedown also.

Mir is also useless against wrestlers with top control who have good submission defense which is Barnett.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Which means JDS would be putting worry into his shots considering, he would be suspectible of the takedown also.

Mir is also useless against wrestlers with top control who have good submission defense which is Barnett.

The takedown defense level of Junior dos Santos and Sergei Kharitonov is night and day. Cain Velasquez is the only person who has been able to take JDS down and even attempt to keep him there. You can't even compare Barnett's wrestling ability to Cain's because they're completely different styles. Cain relies on speed and a ridiculous power double that put even Brock Lesnar on his ass. Cain is younger, faster, and far more explosive than Josh Barnett is.

As far as Mir goes... He's useless against wrestlers with top control based on what? Brock Lesnar? It's already been proven that Lesnar is an absolute freak of nature, that was known before he ever even stepped foot into MMA. Josh Barnett wishes he had the physical gifts that Brock Lesnar has. The only other wrestler that has beaten Mir is Shane Carwin and that had nothing to do with wrestling, and everything to do with the fact that Carwin has concrete blocks for hands and had Mir pinned to the cage smashing his face with uppercuts. Barnett doesn't have the strength of Carwin or Lesnar, and he doesn't have the punching power of either.

You have this strange idea in your head that Josh Barnett is the same type of wrestler as Brock Lesnar and Cain Velasquez, and he's not. I would seriously suggest you go back and watch some more of Barnett's fights to get yourself acquainted with the differences between the two styles.

None of this really holds any water because Barnett isn't likely to sign with UFC, so unless Mir or JDS go to Bellator or Japan they'll probably never fight Josh.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Mir is also useless against wrestlers with top control who have good submission defense which is Barnett.

Go on.

Spicy already addressed Lesnar and Carwin, nevermind the fact that Brock was submitted by Mir in their first fight, and who knows how Brock would have fared against a Nogueira or a Werdum. We'll never know how good Brock's sub defense really was.

Other than that, you may be right - Mir holds losses to noted All-American wrestlers such as Ian Freeman, Marcio Cruz, Brandon Vera, and Junior Dos Santos.

Don't foolishly put down Mir's guard. If anything, Barnett's best chance to beat him is on the feet, where Frank doesn't have the greatest chin in the world. Barnett's striking is very underrated, as is Frank's.

God, I would love to see Mir vs. Barnett. It's a shame it probably won't happen.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I don't like to think of the Freeman and Vera losses. The Freeman loss was the result of an illegal strike, and the Vera fight was the worst shape Mir had ever been in.

I'd like to see that fight. I'd give Mir the edge in striking, but his subpar chin and Josh's solid chin allow Barnett to keep it close. Barnett would take Mir down at will, but think of three of Mir's biggest wins, Timmy, Brock, and the 2nd fight will Big Nog. All submissions off his back. Each guy's biggest strength can be overcome by the other guy.

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Well, they pulled Mendes off of the 157 card now, so I guess we'll see where he falls now.

Doug Marshall is fighting on Thursday's Bellator card... If you haven't seen The Rhino fight before DON'T miss out on almost guaranteed fireworks this Thursday. Dude always comes to fight, and the majority of his fights have ended in highlight fashion win or lose. His opponent is lesser known but he's a scrapper as well.

I know the Bellator cards without "name" fighters on it tend to draw less viewers but if you need a reason to tune in Doug Marshall is your man. The rest of the card is kind of meh, aside from the co-main which features two really good undefeated prospects.

The main event has potential to be decent, but the fact that Dantas and Galvao have trained together quite a bit means this one could be a boring decision. Eduardo Dantas is usually pretty spectacular though, so who knows?

 

[Richard Blonoff]

UFC booked its second ever women's fight. Miesha Tate vs. Cat Zingano. I didn't know who Zingano was so I looked her up. She is 7-0 in her career, and two fights ago won because of this. Skip ahead to the 5 minute 30 second mark.

[YOUTUBE]PsDLiw8fREI#t=05m38s[/YOUTUBE]

She is also pretty muscular

 

[AhSpicyDrop]

Yeah the Alpha Cat is a bad lady, for sure. She teaches more than she fights, but maybe that will change now. I remember seeing her wreck Carina Damm back in the day. She's well-rounded, and I would say easily the strongest female in MMA. Definitely a good substitute to fight Rousey if the rumors of Cyborg wanting released are true.

Hashi made a stupid mistake in that fight though... Why would you try and jump guard on someone with the upper body strength that Zingano has. There was a video a while back on one of the MMA forums of her powerbombing her way out of triangles.