**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[I Heart Cena]

if being booed as a babyface means your not a legend, then doesnt that mean the rock and austin arn't legends either since they where originally heels who got cheered?

so triple h, bret hart, hulk hogan, ric flair, hbk, and stone cold went and changes gimmicks all teh time after the reached success?

Can you post in English, please?

Rock and SCSA electrified crowds. That's how they earned legendary status. Cena doesn't electrify. He has not earned legendary status.

 

[#BabyFace]

As soon as I saw this thread title I just HAD to get on here and see the Cena Haters.

Let me start By saying I am not a Cena mark nor do I dislike Cena.

If everyone can put their hate aside for a second and give an honest answer it would be YES. John Cena is a legend.

Legend does not mean you like him,Legend means he is something special. Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan, The Rock, Ric Flair.... These are legends. Why? Because they are talked about. They were polarizing. They were as big as the company itslef. And Cena is as big as the company.

John Cena is the face of the company which automatically makes him a Legend. H eis the most talked about guy in wrestling in years. THAT IS ALL THAT MATTERS.

I could go on and on about this but the fact is Cena IS a legend because he superstar main event face of the company LEGEND!

and all of you Cena haters know it.

 

[Suibon]

Can you post in English, please?

Rock and SCSA electrified crowds. That's how they earned legendary status. Cena doesn't electrify. He has not earned legendary status.

Perfect!

Never mind what I had said, what other people of my opinion have said, just go on and on and on about Cena not electrifying crowds or getting reactions when he is, he actually is. Just, you know, go on hating for the heck of it. It suits you - I mean, your username predisposes you to your own opinion, logic and other opinions be damned.


​

 

[scomvp316]

Simply put Cena doesn't draw like Hogan and Austin. Whether fans like him or not half of the problem is the creative team. Cena's character needs a tweek maybe not a full heel turn but a much more vocal character of saying stuff less positive. Cena is in the Bret Hart class as far as a PR guy but isn't beloved like a Hogan or Austin!

 

[Suibon]

Simply put Cena doesn't draw like Hogan and Austin. Whether fans like him or not half of the problem is the creative team. Cena's character needs a tweek maybe not a full heel turn but a much more vocal character of saying stuff less positive. Cena is in the Bret Hart class as far as a PR guy but isn't beloved like a Hogan or Austin!

I've seen this mindset so many times in this thread, yet the logic behind it is found wanting. Yes, Hogan prospered, and Austin prospered, and Cena prospered - during their own times, where circumstances and expectations surrounding them were different. Hulkamania hit its peak before the advent of Monday Night Raw; Austin, along with Rooky, were the stars of the Attitude era; Cena... well, you know (or you don't - it's all up to you). Comparing them side by side when they didn't work the crowds in a single era is convenient but misleading.
​

 

[[cL]]

Anyone who doesn't think Cena is a legend know nothing about eh wrestling business. They very well may have NEVER been someone as dedicated to this business and helping it succeed then John Cena. You never hear about Cena refusing to put people over, or not showing up due to ridiculous pay demands, or not showing up because he got drunk or high the night before. John Cena put this business before himself, which not one of these other legends can say they EVER did.

Don't think you can say that in all truth. You dont know this to be a fact.

As for him being booed, legends never get booed? Hulk Hogan wasnt booed?, The Rock was never booed? Ric Flair never got booed?. What matters in wrestling is not what the reaction is , but how big it is, and to the day not one person in this business get any wear near the reaction that John Cena does.

i'm going to assume you're saying that no one currently on the active roster gets the kind of reaction that Cena gets. Because that is true. But if you're comparing him to people legit legends, he's not getting a bigger pop than HBK, Hogan, Austin and clearly the Rock.

So if Bret Hart, HBK, Undertaker, and even Ric Flair are legend how is John Cena not? New flash for everyone, Cena is a bigger star then any of these men ever dreamed of being and i guarantee if you ask ever single one of them if John Cena is a legend, everyone of them would either answer yes immediate, or slap you for asking such a dumb question. Every legend in this business never has anything but positive things to say about him, the only people you ever hear talk bad about him are mid carders and indy "bigshots" who are jealous of his success.

This stanza is the only reason why I felt that I had to comment. You believe John Cena to be a bigger star than Ric Flair, Undertaker or HBK...? When you say stuff like this it makes it hard to believe that you're a true wrestling fan. Had you added Hogan's name in that list, I would be sure you were 12 or younger. John Cena is a huge star and has done crap loads for this company, but to say he's a bigger star than HBK, Flair or Undertaker could dream of being, is a slap in the face to combined 60+ years of iconic wrestling experience. That being said, I'm going to omit this stanza from your quote because it is simply bass ackwards.

And as far as in ring ability, yeah, he doesnt know 1,001 hold, 200 submissions, but no one better understands the mental aspects (which and real wrestling fan will tell you, is the most important part.) of wrestling then him. HBK, Big Show, Umaga, Edge, Sheamus, CM Punk, RVD,etc.... have all had arguably the best matches of there careers against Cena, hell he even had a match against Great Khali that was GOOD, not even HHH, or HBK can claim that.

"no one better understands the mental aspects of wrestling than him"
Nobody? Really? John Cena, has a leg up on every wrestling mind in the business as it relates to in ring psychology. REALLY???
I mean....wow.... HBK, Big Show......UMAGA?...Edge, Sheamus, CM Punk RVD....etc....have all had arguably the best matches of their careers against Cena.... REALLY?????
I dont know what to say. I'm gonna probably go out on a limb and say, thats not entirely true. His match against CM PUNK was only good because of the story behind it and the Chicago crowd. Shaemus is gonna be hard to call because he's not been in the business long enough to have logged the matches that would qualify for best-of-my-career. maybe best to date, but not of his career. Edge, RVD, HBK....all have had stellar matches and though maybe he's had some great matches against these guys i'm gonna say that if we're picking top five, he's not going past 3 on any of those lists.
Cena is great, no doubt about it, but I think you're going a bit too far.

 

[Masson26]

John Cena is a bigger star then HBK, Flair and Taker, better wrestler maybe not, but bigger star yes. There is no point in there careers where these men where as well known to the mainstream masses as John Cena, they may have been the biggest stars in the eyes of fanboys, but to the masses they where not on Cena's level.

And yes no one currently wrestling (not counting the rock due to part time status), get has the mental aspects cena does, no one works a crowd like he does. And your comment on the Punk/Cena match, so your saying it had absolutely nothing to do with Cena? You have proved my point for me there, as if it had been Punk vs say, Jack Swagger, or hell even Randy Orton, they would have been just as into it? We both no the answer is no. And Umage vs. Cena last man standing, undoubtedly Umagas best match, Cena vs. RVD at one night stand, without a doubt his best match, Edge vs. Cena had a numbered of matches that were all the best singles matches of his career, HBK vs Cena in both the one hour match and mania rematch could easily be the best of his career, if not at least the top 3. And notice, every one of these men has also had matches with admitted legends like HBK, HHH, Taker, Flair, etc.... and all had there best matches with Cena. Don't think he has great in ring skill? Ask Bret HArt, Mick Foley, etc... a number of legend who all agree.

 

[Wrestlemania 20-0]

John Cena is the MOST controversy superstar in WWE history,every forumeurs here as an opinion on this but Wrestling exist before Cena arrived don't forget this.

Is Cena deserves his statuts on favourite WWE of all time,it's an question he has no answers.
The world in wrestling has changed many many times,every period of WWE has knows theirs best superstars of all time.
John Cena is divised by love and hate.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

UM HELL NAW...is this even a serious question. No Cena is not a legend and hes really far from it..wrestling is pre planned so anyone saying winning championships doesnt make sense that would mean you can count titles won and that person is the best ever...is Edge a legend or Randy Orton NO and neither is Cena.

Last time I recall EVERYONE's title reign is pre-planned. Judging by the later portion of your post I can infer that you label Austin, Hogan, and Taker as legends when their title reigns were pre-planned as well. Either title reigns aren't everything when it comes to deciding if one has legendary status or not, which brings us to...

It takes alot for me to label someone a legend. Cena doesnt even have a defining moment like HBK has the ladder match, HIAC and Iron Man, Taker has the streak, Austin has his matches with bret hart and the rock, Hogan has Andre.

Yep, legends do have their defining moments and Cena will have his at Wrestlemania 28. That is if you don't count any of his other matches defining moments, such as with JBL, Batista, or how about CM Punk? A critically acclaimed match don't you know?

I could go on and on and on but what does Cena have, nothing just a long list of meaningless title runs and to me its really sad cause it shows how bad of shape the business is in. He is a HOF but i doubt he will ever become a legend.

There is a reason the man has been scripted to win so many championships, because he gets people to care about him. Whether it be boos or cheers 95% of the time the crowd erupts when Cena's music hits, he is a big draw plain and simple. A legend is a legend in pro wrestling because he makes money for the company, he is the poster boy and the absolute top guy. WWE isn't lying when they say "biggest match of all time" because they know that Cena IS a legend and there can be no doubt about that at all.

 

[scomvp316]

Cena has never approached Hogan's merchandise records of over $5 mill and Austin has the single year record near $6.5 mill. Thats how you decide who is a draw. With Cena neck and neck with Punk for top spot in merchandise sales shows how divided the audience is and how much the fans want someone different. The Rock hasn't even come close to Austin's merchandise record and I don't think anyone will for a very very longtime.

 

[iwinulose]

Uh he has been the top dog for how long now? Look at the feuds he has had. Look at the titles he has won. Then come back and ask me if he isn't a legend. John Cena is a legend, has been for a long time, future hall of famer. The wwe relies on cena, one of these online dirt sheets talking about plans for WM 29, they said they are basically puttng it all on Cena, Undertaker, and Rock. What does that say?

 

[AwesomeRko]

If John Cena was to retire right now he would be regarded as a legend, he is a double figure world champion, has been the face of the company for like 6 years and like it or not is the most over full-time superstar currently on the roster. Am I a John Cena fan? Quite honestly no, I feel that he has dominated the main-event scene for far too long and his character has been stale since 2008.

Yet my opinion still doesn't detract from his massive ppularity amongst the general fanbase and his accomplishments in pro-wrestling. I don't believe that he is as talented as people like Edge, HBK, Bret, Foley Eddie or even Randy Orton yet he is still a bigger, more iconic superstar than all of these people. It could be a simple case of right gimmick right time, WWE constantly pushing him to the moon and shobing him down our throats, it's probably a combination of them all. Yet the fact remains his popularity is unparallelled in wrestling post 2003.

He has essentially defined a generation regardless of what peoples opinions may be of wrestling in the past few years. In terms of overall star power and mass popularity I believe he ranks only behind Hogan, Rock and Austin. In pro-wrestling history that is pretty much what counts.

 

[Jenna.]

I feel like by default, he's a legend. Him being a legend just seems forced. I'm not gonna sit here and bash the guy. I get he has done a lot in the past 10 years, but by the same token I just feel it's forced. Him winning the world titles that many times were just way too predictable. With past legends like Austin, Rock, HBK, Hogan, Flair etc. I feel like those wrestlers fought their way to being the best in the business and perfecting their craft to become legends. With Cena it seems like his success was just handed to him in a sense.

So to answer the question, yeah he's a legend(I guess) but when you countdown the greatest wrestlers of all time, I think he barely sniffs the top 15.

 

[Skinsley]

Edge is HOF after an injury when the highest point in his career almost unquestionably came in an era where John Cena roamed as King.
John Cena has far exceded the status of a HoF member and would almost certainly be considered a legend in 10 - 20 years time if he was forced to retire now.

I dont like John Cena right now for reasons that dont need to be explained....but I want him to beat the Rock at Mania. I do respect him for the work he does and the way he keeps character even though you can clearly see the inner turmoil he goes through for the sake of the company.
One thing is almost certain. When the dust has settled and John Cena is no longer a fully active member of the WWE roster. All, haters and marks alike, will call John Cena a true legend.

Hulk and Flair are indeed legends....but they are from a time where it all began...their status as legends is a pinnacle that no current wrestler can EVER expect to achieve. Stone Cold and Rocky are the Legends of their respective Era....and John Cena is the legend of his.

YES John Cena is a Legend.

 

[[cL]]

John Cena is a bigger star then HBK, Flair and Taker, better wrestler maybe not, but bigger star yes.

In an era where wrestling comes in second to personalities, its very easy to see where you get your logic from. Wrestling is what brings them to the dance but it is very personality driven. With that being said, in your eyes, you see Cena as greater than HBK, one of the founders of the Kliq and one of the most controversial groups (DX) in wrestling history? Better than Ric Flair, one of the greatest heels in the history of wrestling? Undertaker? One of the most iconic figures in sports entertainment?
Where is this mainstream love for Cena you keep talking about? Its not like he's on anything other than WWE Television and Film...Last year, alone the MIZ did more mainstream television than John Cena. He's not a better wrestler than the three aforementioned wrestler and he's not a bigger star. There may be a bigger light shined on him because WWE is the only game in town, and he's the biggest star in that game. He may be big to this generation of people who didn't really get a chance to see those guys in their prime, but to use a blanket statement like, "Cena's bigger than they could have ever been" is ludicrous.

There is no point in there careers where these men where as well known to the mainstream masses as John Cena, they may have been the biggest stars in the eyes of fanboys, but to the masses they where not on Cena's level.

This is ridiculous. Mainstream appeal, makes Cena a bigger star than the Undertaker? Not a chance. When you say Undertakers name and John Cena's name, their both synonymous with Wrestling. They are both synonymous with the WWE. Only one of them is an Icon and the other is not.
How do you say, in good conscience, that John Cena is a bigger star, than someone who is an ICON? That doesnt make good sense at all. Is Cena a big star? Without question. Is he a bigger star than HBK, UT, Flair?
No.

And yes no one currently wrestling (not counting the rock due to part time status), get has the mental aspects cena does, no one works a crowd like he does.

....who are we comparing him to? Dolph Ziggler? The MIZ? Shaemus? Daniel Bryan? Cause yeah, in that company of men, he stands head and shoulders above them. But in that company of men, that's not hard to do. See, i can't help going into the past and pulling out names like Mr. Perfect, Randy Savage, Jake the Snake Roberts, Ted Dibiase. These men where men who could hold an audience in the palms of their hands and THEY weren't even the MAIN GUY! These guys had a mental edge and a psychology about wrestling you can't teach. In this era of wrestling there is John Cena, and everyone else. There are no Curt Hennigs or Savages or Roberts. There are guys who are getting their but none who are there yet. I've heard it before and said it before: its not hard to be the smartest kid in the room when everyone else has down syndrome.

And your comment on the Punk/Cena match, so your saying it had absolutely nothing to do with Cena? You have proved my point for me there, as if it had been Punk vs say, Jack Swagger, or hell even Randy Orton, they would have been just as into it?

No...if anything you just proved mine. If Punk is not in that match, we don't have the Chicago home team crowd. We don't have a storyline about someone who sparked a whirlwind of a mainstream media storm with the "shoot promo" heard round the world. Without Punk, CENA would not have had THAT match to get nominated for match of the year. NOT the other way around. The story stemmed around PUNK leaving the company with the belt. Not Cena's ability to retain. It was, what happens if Punk wins and leaves. Cena vs. Swagger...crap match. Cena vs. Orton...who cares... Cena vs. Punk during that particular time, huge. Why? Because of the shoot promo and the impending departure of CM Punk.
Period.

We both no the answer is no.

And I clearly just showed you why.

And Umage vs. Cena last man standing, undoubtedly Umagas best match,

It probably was Umaga's best match. But can you name 10 of his matches?

Cena vs. RVD at one night stand, without a doubt his best match,

Probably Cena's best match vs RVD, but absolutely not RVD's best match. Have you watched any ECW programming? Have you seen RVD vs. Raven? vs Tommy Dreamer? Vs. Taz? Clearly you haven't.

Edge vs. Cena had a numbered of matches that were all the best singles matches of his career,

........don't really know this one, though Edge has had some memorable matches vs. Jericho...

HBK vs Cena in both the one hour match and mania rematch could easily be the best of his career, if not at least the top 3.

I'm willing to go out on a limb and ask HBK on twitter his top three greatest matches. I'm almost 100% sure he's gonna go with Hart, Undertaker and SCSA. Until you mentioned them, I had completely forgot about HBK/Cena matches.

And notice, every one of these men has also had matches with admitted legends like HBK, HHH, Taker, Flair, etc.... and all had there best matches with Cena. Don't think he has great in ring skill? Ask Bret HArt, Mick Foley, etc... a number of legend who all agree.

I've never said anything about his in ring skill. Never brought up until you said something...buuuuuutttt.... since you ARE saying something....

nah...forget it.
waaaaay too easy.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

If you don't think he's a legend, you may have autism. I say this, because a symptom of autism(on some parts of the spectrum) is being incredibly self centered and not being able to see someone else's point of view. If you say "John Cena" most people, at least here in america, know who you're talking about. That's "legendary" to me. He's been the top guy. No, it's not a fucking lack of star power, that's just something people who want it to be 1999 again with cheap pops on beer, blood, boops, pornstars, pimps, and mae youngs hand say.

Cena is a top guy because he has the talent and the work ethic and the loyalty to do so. I don't own any John Cena merchandise, but I do have an autographed "Bryan Danielson" picture I drove 13 hours round trip in 1 day to get at a show in a rec center in front of 1,500 people. I'm closer to the smark douchebag who chants asshole things all show than the kid who pops for "you can't see me". However, I can think critically and rationally. I'm not dumb. John Cena is a legend. It's pretty damn objective.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

There is proof. I like to call it the "Smark Effect". WWE's been trying to please the anti-Authority fans for years. Fans wanted to cheer Orton, so they turn him face... fans end up hating Orton. Fans want to cheer Sheamus, so they turn him face... fans end up hating Sheamus. Fans want to cheer CM Punk, so they turn him face... fans end up hating CM Punk. It's history that will simply repeat itself if WWE continues to cater to their fans.

IMO, WWE should stop caring about what the people want and book how they know they should. I'm going to say it here and now, wrestling fans don't know what they want. They think they do, but they don't.

---

Anyway, back to Cena. I'm really starting to find a lot more respect for him. I've always had respect for him, don't get me wrong. But nowadays, the amount of dedication that's so obvious is just amazing. I can't wait to see how he progresses after his win at Mania.

I think that's what they do. That's why Santino is the US champion and Cena is still a face, just evolved a bit. The WWE is ran by businessmen who realize that their individual fandom and opinion doesn't matter. What matters is the opinion of the general masses and actually understanding that opinion even if the fans themselves don't. Then booking accordingly. When you book with your own personal convictions and not off anything that makes good business sense, you end up with TNA.

 

[TBK]

Definitely. Hate the guy all you want, but he's already made a name for himself. In fact, I'd say about everyone who has lead the company at some point will forever be considered legends.

He's been a 10 something time World Champion. He's been top face for the company. He's had very popular feuds with Edge, JBL, Triple H, Orton and most recently, CM Punk. He's done so much in so little time. I'm not the biggest fan of Cena, but the way he's lead the company back into popularity, whether we like or not, is just stuff of legends.

 

[Wrestlemania 20-0]

Since 10 years John Cena has win an tittle by year approximatively,like Edge in a certain measure.
The question is what is an legend in the WWE and who decides.

 

[SPR*VLN]

As we all know Cena has been tearing up WWE for years now and beat just about everyone put in his way. Early in his career Angle, Big Show, HHH, Chris Jericho, etc. Then Umaga, Khali, Edge, Batista, Orton etc. Now young talent like Barrett and Sheamus.

Every era theres the larger then life guy, but his nemesis always has his number. We saw it with Hogan/Warrior, Bret/Shawn, and Rock/Austin. When Sheamus burst on the scene and quickly beat Cena twice I thought he was going to be that guy, but soon like always Cena prevailed.

To my question, who do you think on the current roster should be the guy Cena absolutely cant beat, and always out smarts him? I think Christian could be that guy. He's always played the role of a being that pest since his E&C days and I can see him being able to always beat Cena make him into the mega heel the company lacks. If not Christian then Barrett.

 

[mqa86]

I think they had the chance to make CM Punk that guy to Cena, but they totally blew it, he had a huge momentum and the crowd was almost entirely behind Punk but aparently to the creative tema that wasnt good enough, putting a monster against Cena wouldnt make sense so you need a person who can get enough people behind him, we know that ain't orton they dont mix that well together and neither sheamus, christian is way too old to start building himself as a credible top heel, maybe with a total overhaul but i still dont see it.

 

[PunkTruster91]

it should be Dolph Ziggler, it would give a huge push to a promising star. plus it would really give the "show off" attitude they are having him use push as well. plus i feel cena has been around as long as orton, why are they not using him to push young stars??

 

[Elmarko13]

They should probably start out fresh with someone he has never faced may i suggest a certain freaking awesome star about to make his way up from FCW that goes by the name Seth Rollins. I would love to see Rollins get an enormous push cause he is probably one of my favorites as of now. Putting him over Cena would definitely solidify him as a main eventer.

 

[The 1-2-3 Killam]

Hypothetically speaking, I can't take Christian seriously in that role. He's been handed too many loses over his career and been beaten by two many people that HAVE scored victories over Cena. He's more of a main event guy now than he was during his first tenure with WWE, but that still doesn't mean I could take him seriously cast in the role as Cena's ultimate opponent.

Austin/Rock, Hogan/Warrior, Sting/Flair, and even Steamboat/Savage all had one thing in common: both guys were legendary and deserving of their place. Hogan was the bigger name taken down by Warrior, likewise with Austin and Flair. But their opponents came off DESERVING of their legacy. I just don't think Christian could ever be believable attached to John Cena for any length of time.

Edge was the closest thing Cena ever had to a real challenge. Triple H was better than Edge and more of a legend when they collided, but nobody actually thought the Game was going to beat Cena for the title at WrestleMania. Same with Orton. Same with Batista. But Edge got under Cena's skin and stayed their for almost an entire year! One of my all-time favorite rivalries, and I believe the only man to truly provide a believable challenge to John Cena (from a storyline perspective) until the Rock.

They have a chance to do it again with CM Punk, as Cena has never really beaten him decisively. Punk actually has the advantage in his lifetime feud with Cena, so there's already plenty of backstory available.

They could also go another route, and do something like Triple H/Shelton Benjamin did during the Evolution days. If you rememeber management was really hot on Shelton Benjamin and wanted to push him to the stars. And why not? He had all the looks and ability of a true star in the business, he just lacked the drive to do anything with it... Or so the story goes. Anyways, Benjamin beat Triple H on several occasions of a period of a few months. He was smaller, less experience, and going up against the World Champion for heaven's sake! But for whatever reason he could always pull out the victory against Triple H... I think the Miz could have been in a really good position to be that guy for John Cena. You don't think of him as somebody who could physically compete with Cena, but he is crafty and has proven that through circumstantial angles he CAN and HAS beaten Cena several times. If they wanted to try again with a younger star and build him up by having Cena give him the rub in several matches, I think any of the ROH guys down in FCW waiting to come up would be great choices. Perhaps an Uso if they ever decide to do ANYTHING with them.

That's all I got, but before I take off... The only reason I wanted to make this post - even though it was interesting (for a change) - was to surpass the 1,000 mark and forever rid myself of holding a women's championship on this forum.

 

[snitskystilllovesfeet]

Realize there has been some past, but Jericho would be perfect to make a run on Cena. He has always had the ability to job, but his wins over Rock and Austin in one night makes him credible against anybody. I could see him holding a psychological edge over Cena. Maybe make Superman doubt himself for a little while.