**MERGED** John Cena Thread - Heel Turn, Matches, Etc. (Keep it in here!!)

[MrGameTime]

Why are people comparing today's Wrestlers with different Era's or Generations? This has nothing to do with wether or not a person should be considered a Legend. It's like saying Mike Tyson isn't a Legend in Boxing because he didn't fight Ali.

Also John Cena reached Main Event Status in the Attitude Era anyway. If i recall he Main Evented against Edge, and Triple H. Obviously he couldn't Main Event with Austin as he retired before Cena hit the scene, and The Rock left for Acting.

It all comes down to ones own definition of a legend. The easiest way is to compare against previous years legends. In my eyes a legend is someone that will be forever known, and is historic for being at the top of the game they were in, in a way cena is on top but its just such a different industry now.... so is it then fair that if you considered Cena a legend you are therefore putting him up there with hogan, austin, flair etc, he has no where near there star power.

What has he done to acheive greatness? kissed vinces ass, does 3 moves and got a boatload of kids to like him as he seems to be the only one worth on the weak roster now a days thats worth appealing to, in other words what im trying to say is they have to get behind someone... so Cenas is in the right place and the right time, if he was in the same time as some off the other "legends" he wouldnt be nowhere near them its just that there is no one else.

Simple question is... do you honestly believe Cena deserves to be a 10 time WWE champion? Thats a mockery.

 

[Mebzone]

UM HELL NAW...is this even a serious question. No Cena is not a legend and hes really far from it..wrestling is pre planned so anyone saying winning championships doesnt make sense that would mean you can count titles won and that person is the best ever...is Edge a legend or Randy Orton NO and neither is Cena. It takes alot for me to label someone a legend. Cena doesnt even have a defining moment like HBK has the ladder match, HIAC and Iron Man, Taker has the streak, Austin has his matches with bret hart and the rock, Hogan has Andre. I could go on and on and on but what does Cena have, nothing just a long list of meaningless title runs and to me its really sad cause it shows how bad of shape the business is in. He is a HOF but i doubt he will ever become a legend.

 

[Azane]

People comparing old eras to todays are kind of grasping at straws.

Hulk Hogan wouldn't be a legend in this era, just as Cena wouldn't be a legend in Hulkamania's era.

Stone Cold was the face of the attitude era, He would of been a huge joke in the 70's

Undertaker would of been the shockmaster, had he debuted a decade later.

Part of being a legend is adapting to your era and being up with the times.

Cena definitely represented a shift in wrestling, that was pushing us towards the reality era, he was a character in his thuganomics gimmick, but his babyface turn to the Marine and now, we have something that seems very much like the real John Cena (with bits of passionate aggression thrown in for interest)

I'm not a huge fan of his, but you really have to be a fanboy to ignore his accomplishments and his work ethic.

Cena does put in a tremendous amount of work both in and out of the ring. He's a genuinely good guy in an era full of corrupt BS. Those make a wish tours and his genuine support for the US Military is not a part of his character, it's his person, and the image he gives the company for doing those things while being the face of it are some of the things I cannot disrespect.

He is no doubt in my mind, going to be spoken of in the same breath as Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Michaels, Cena, Taker. In 20 years, you'll look back at his career and see a legend, even if you're biased hatred is clouding your judgment now.

 

[Fansince1992]

Simple question is... do you honestly believe Cena deserves to be a 10 time WWE champion? Thats a mockery.

Agree 100% why should Cena at 34 years old have that many title reigns? He has what another 10 years or so in Wrestling (if he stays in the industry) What the hell is he going to do in that time. I think the reason for so many titles is what you say, the Competition for Cena is terrible! so WWE try and throw the belt on someone else to bring others to John's level. It fails and Cena wins it back and WWE have tried 10 times with this and ... Failed!

I respect that you create your own idea of what a Legend is. It would of been interesting to see if Cena could get to the top had he come on the scene earlier on in the Attitude Era. I guess The Match with The Rock may give us an idea if he would of been a Top Star during that time. I think this may be the idea of this match to see if Cena can perform at the same level as one of the all-time greats.

 

[Suibon]

Of course he's a legend. Anybody who says otherwise is either a biased fool (like I hate Cena - and 'fool' ain't a word I use lightly), lying through his teeth, or simply unaware of what Cena has done for his company (financially and media-wise) ever since he became top face, and especially since the implosion of the housing market and the financial chaos that ensued thereafter four years ago.


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[Jack-Hammer]

I'm sure that some will find any number of hairs to split & various technicalities as a means of saying no and/or to undermine Cena's standing as "legend", but when you look at everything he's accomplished and what he's meant to WWE, I honestly fail to see how anyone could legitimately claim that Cena isn't a legend.

Cena has been the overall biggest star in the WWE for the better part of a decade. Whether you're a fan of Cena or you're not, he's almost constantly been in situations that grabs the attention of the WWE audience and has them interested in what he's doing. Even if some fans spew hate or go on and on about how they don't like him, they'e still talking about him. They're still watching his promo segments. They're still watching his matches. Cena gets an incredible reaction from fans one way or another and that's what you want.

Also, just look at what he's accomplished. John Cena's a 12 time World Champion, a 3 time United States Champion, Royal Rumble winner, he's headlined nearly every WM for a decade and he's been in consistently memorable feuds & matches. The fact that he's only in his mid 30s, isn't part of the wrestling eras of days gone by or doesn't have one foot slipping into the grave doesn't just overrule all that.

 

[BaconBits]

He's on his way to being a legend for sure. I don't think he's one yet, but then again, I think the word legend is thrown about in the wrasslin' world far, far too much. Just because you had a great career doesn't mean you are a legend.

I think legendary status should be reserved for the folks that are transcendent of the wrestling business. That would be guys that even non-fans know, guys like Sammartino, Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock... Cena is well on his way to that, and as he ages towards retirement, the word legend should be applied.

 

[theBec2101]

Of course. Why isnt he. He is the face of the company, he talented both on the mic and in the ring. I know alot of you are gonna say he only has 5 moves and he cant wrestle. Yes they dont LET him wrestle. They have him go out there and entertain. People/kids come to see him do his singnature moves, so guess what there gonna have him to them. I mean enough already, we get it you dont like Cena and you know who to use the internet. Congrates. Now its time to move out of your moms basement and get a job that doesnt have a drive-thru.

 

[mb47]

Yes Cena is clearly a legend of the business.

He's achieved so much, he's given us some great moments, he's carried an entire company as the face of it.

Talk about outside the ring though and he's even better. He's granted so many Make A Wish's as just one example.

The reason I include out-of-ring things is because it shows he's a class act, he's a great guy who despite his very hectic and busy lifestyle he still takes the time to do all he can while he's in his current position. Cena gives 100% to everything and it can be seen. No he's not the best wrestler or the best mic guy but all round he's a solid package who never tires. He's more than just a legend in wrestling terms to me, he's an inspirational figure that a lot of people should look up to.

 

[Miz_Mark]

John Cena has been WWE champion for 1,058 days, surpassing every champion in history with the exception of Bruno Sammartino, Hulk Hogan, and Bob Backlund. He is about to headline is 8th Wrestlemania(his 4th last match on the car), his accolades are veritably limitless. It's absurd to argue that he is not a legend. The people who are tearing him down today, if they'd been the same age and had the internet in the 80s would be saying all the same garbage about Hogan. Hate him if you'd like, but his place in the history of the business is beyond dispute.

 

[neildittmar]

Is John Cena a legend already?

I guess the already part is what I'm having the most difficulty with when considering the moniker for Cena. If the question was "is John Cena a legend amongst this generation of WWE stars", my answer would be yes. If it was regarding the prospects of John Cena at some point becoming a legend compared to other WWF/E legends, then my response would be "very likely."

But is John Cena a legend today, right this moment? I'm not so sure as there is some striking evidence to the contrary. Yes, he has held multiple WWE championships. He has feuded with some of the best in the business both past and present. He has been the top merchandise seller. He has appeared on television programming outside of wrestling. Some folks know who he is, having not even paid any attention to wrestling. The WWE marketing machine has assured his complete exposure to mainstream media. Cena has carried the banner adequately, if not exceptionally in all of these areas.

Those are all points that are difficult to debate individually against for sure. However, when we talk about "Legendary" status we're still mostly focusing on the wrestling itself. Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock, Ric Flair, Randy Savage, Roddy Piper... I could go on. These guys were so good at what they did, they drew audiences to the product that otherwise wouldn't watch or care about wrestling. During their respective primes, ratings for television programming went up. Live attendance figures went up. Merchandise sales skyrocketed. PPV buyrates were consistently on the rise.

The aforementioned legends were instrumental in all those things happening in WWF/E. Look at the Rocks involvement in this year and last years Wrestlemania for evidence. He drew an appreciable number of buys as simply a "guest host" with no promises of in-ring competition. This year, I'm sure WM will break the million mark once again with the Rock in active competition, in the main event no less. Even at his advanced age, Hogan could do (and has done) the same type of trick at a WM. Ditto for Flair regardless of involvement. Shawn Michaels as referee will no doubt help an already strong program between HHH and Undertaker. That's the crown jewel of legend status... your presence gets fans excited and makes former or non-fans interested. Interested enough to spend their hard-earned money to see you.

To be blunt about it, what would hurt this years WM main event more... if Cena dropped out or if the Rock did?

Can Cena stir up fans and non-fans in the same manner? Does his mere presence dictate a certain level of attention and respect? Right now, I think no. His lukewarm reception to most crowds knocks him down a peg for sure. Fans won't polarize one way or the other towards him. While WWE has tried to find a way to monetize that (the "I hate Cena" shirts for example), it still doesn't dismiss the fact that crowds can't seem to get "mostly behind him" or "mostly against him" at any one time. Granted, part of that is the overall indifference to the product general. The Rock leaving for Hollywood and Austin taking his ball and going home certainly didn't do Cena any favors in the "passing the torch" department.

Despite the specific circumstances, I have a hard time putting Cena into "legendary" status right now particularly when other bona fide WWE Legends are factored into the equation. Most of this is not Cena's fault, as he has done everything he could to rebuild the product, carry the banner, and give fans a reason to be excited. To that degree, he is the Hulk Hogan of this generation. However, when broadening the landscape to every generation and the company that each of those respective eras keep, John Cena isn't a legend right now. In fact, he's not even close.

 

[IHW]

If Cena was to retire today, he would be a WWE Hall Of Famer fairly soon. I know this doesn't mean much nowadays, but Cena is going to be considered a legend one day. Right now I can't really say he is a legend because I honestly don't think Cena has hit the climax of his career.

 

[Peoples_Champ]

Some people are confusing the question - they're comparing Cena's 'legendary status' with those of Austin and others. I wouldn't go on to say Cena has the same legendary stature as an Austin or Rock (yet...), but Cena is absolutely a legend. If he stopped wrestling abruptly like Edge, he would be immediately revered and become an immediate HOFer. WWE would release a DVD of him and people would still buy his merchandise.

I can understand why people dislike John Cena's persona, but to deny that he's a legend (or on the verge of it) is to be incredibly biased.

 

[Steve0904]

The thing is, people would still complain if he came back with that gimmick and it would be "stale" as people like to say after another 7 years. And then people will say TURN HIM HEEELZ!! And I'll say WHY??! All he'll get is an opposite reaction to the one he gets now. Most women and children will boo and the guys (because they've wanted it for so long) will cheer.

 

[Masson26]

Anyone who doesn't think Cena is a legend know nothing about eh wrestling business. They very well may have NEVER been someone as dedicated to this business and helping it succeed then John Cena. You never hear about Cena refusing to put people over, or not showing up due to ridiculous pay demands, or not showing up because he got drunk or high the night before. John Cena put this business before himself, which not one of these other legends can say they EVER did.

As for him being booed, legends never get booed? Hulk Hogan wasnt booed?, The Rock was never booed? Ric Flair never got booed?. What matters in wrestling is not what the reaction is , but how big it is, and to the day not one person in this business get any wear near the reaction that John Cena does.

So if Bret Hart, HBK, Undertaker, and even Ric Flair are legend how is John Cena not? New flash for everyone, Cena is a bigger star then any of these men ever dreamed of being and i guarantee if you ask ever single one of them if John Cena is a legend, everyone of them would either answer yes immediate, or slap you for asking such a dumb question. Every legend in this business never has anything but positive things to say about him, the only people you ever hear talk bad about him are mid carders and indy "bigshots" who are jealous of his success.

And as far as in ring ability, yeah, he doesnt know 1,001 hold, 200 submissions, but no one better understands the mental aspects (which and real wrestling fan will tell you, is the most important part.) of wrestling then him. HBK, Big Show, Umaga, Edge, Sheamus, CM Punk, RVD,etc.... have all had arguably the best matches of there careers against Cena, hell he even had a match against Great Khali that was GOOD, not even HHH, or HBK can claim that.

And hell whether you want to admit it or not, all of these Cena haters, still watch wrestling, because of John Cena, so that they can see what he does next and find something else to bitch about. Ill admit i myself was tired of the superman character, but anyone who truely thinks he has no talent or shouldnt be respected either knows nothing about thsi business or is just afraid of being considered mainstream. Teh fact is, he has the respect of every other legend in this business, and everyone who matters in this business.

 

[Marv95]

All he'll get is an opposite reaction to the one he gets now. Most women and children will boo and the guys (because they've wanted it for so long) will cheer.

How do you know this? I keep hearing this over and over yet is there any proof of this? What if he insults the fans and rips them a new one like he did in 2003? What if he does evil heel crap that hasn't been done since Orton in 2009? Add on the fact that people are getting genuinely sick and tired of Cena regardless and there's no evidence he'll get cheered by adults.

 

[WallsofZakku]

it seems to me like if he's not already in legendary status then he's on his way to be. just look at all the accomplishments he's made in his 10 years in the wwe and there's sure to be more to come. a win against the rock at wm 28 would even further help solidify his career. he's great on the mic, can actually wrestle when vince lets him, and does a lot for the company behind the scenes.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Cena has most definitely reached Legendary status at this point.

To this day the only person who was the face of the WWE longer than Cena was Bruno and Hogan, not even Austin and The Rock were the guy for as long as Cena is.

He's definitely not an icon or anything, Cena is someone who isn't and will never be bigger than the business but he's definitely big enough and popular enough to be in that legendary status. He's most certainly earned that status as well with his tireless work ethic and super human healing powers.

Over the last 8 years there has been many changes and ups and downs but throughout that entire time John Cena has been the 1 constant of the WWE throughout that period. Even in '07 when WWE was getting buried by EVERYONE because of the whole Benoit ordeal John was the one constant and in many ways the light of the company.

WWE has dealt with issues with top guys (Orton and Kennedy), dealt with scandals, dealt with leadership changes in the back, dealt with an overhaul of the program altogether, dealt with big names leaving. During all this time Cena was the one guy you never had to worry about, never had to discipline and never questioned if he was gonna show up and give his all.

Its why Cena is the guy because he is the one guy WWE never has to worry about. Cena isn't gonna jump ship, if he gets injured he will make sure he's back ASAP, is always gonna put on an entertaining show and overall paints a good image for the WWE to the best of his ability.

Cena may not be a Hogan, Rock or Austin, but he is definitely an Undertaker, the perfect guy to showcase in your company, the best guy to lead your locker room and the guy who shows the most dedication and discipline.

 

[Steve0904]

How do you know this? I keep hearing this over and over yet is there any proof of this? What if he insults the fans and rips them a new one like he did in 2003? What if he does evil heel crap that hasn't been done since Orton in 2009? Add on the fact that people are getting genuinely sick and tired of Cena regardless and there's no evidence he'll get cheered by adults.

No, perhaps not, but it's an educated guess. Adults and older teens are smart enough to know that WWE is scripted so it really won't matter if Cena rips them a new one in heel persona.

 

[Trill Co$by]

How do you know this? I keep hearing this over and over yet is there any proof of this? What if he insults the fans and rips them a new one like he did in 2003? What if he does evil heel crap that hasn't been done since Orton in 2009? Add on the fact that people are getting genuinely sick and tired of Cena regardless and there's no evidence he'll get cheered by adults.

There is proof. I like to call it the "Smark Effect". WWE's been trying to please the anti-Authority fans for years. Fans wanted to cheer Orton, so they turn him face... fans end up hating Orton. Fans want to cheer Sheamus, so they turn him face... fans end up hating Sheamus. Fans want to cheer CM Punk, so they turn him face... fans end up hating CM Punk. It's history that will simply repeat itself if WWE continues to cater to their fans.

IMO, WWE should stop caring about what the people want and book how they know they should. I'm going to say it here and now, wrestling fans don't know what they want. They think they do, but they don't.

---

Anyway, back to Cena. I'm really starting to find a lot more respect for him. I've always had respect for him, don't get me wrong. But nowadays, the amount of dedication that's so obvious is just amazing. I can't wait to see how he progresses after his win at Mania.

 

[I Heart Cena]

Leave it to you to get on here and talk crap. Dude get a life. You care more about the wrestlers you hate instead of wrestlers you love. You dont even try to look at things from another point of view.

This era a dark age? You mean the same era that might have one of the biggest matches in wrestling history? The same era HBK had his last match? The same era that had alot of actual wrestling unlike the Attitued era? The same era that Punk gave his big promo? I could go on and on but why bother you will come up with anything to make yourself feel better about your hate toward Cena.

I have a life, much more interesting than yours.

Why would I try to look at things from another point of view when mine is the educated one? I understand the point of view that cena is a legend. You have to be less educated and less intelligent to have that point of view. But among those that are knowledgeable, he is not a legend.

Yes, this era has had some good moments, but very few. Simply put, legends are electrifying. Cena is not electrifying. Hogan, Flair, Rock, SCSA, HBK were all electrifying. Cena was entertaining as a rapper, but then as superhero, he's been a cringeworthy bore.

Legends don't get booed consistently when they are babyfaces. Yes, Rock was booed at WM18, but was it every week for years as has been the case with Cena? No.

 

[xavyer]

First of all, let me get this out of the way, someone compared Cena to Hogan by saying that Cena has only 3 moves when he wrestles, ho many moves did Hulk Hogan Had?? Don't get me wrong , Hogan was entertaining, but as an athlete he wasn't that good, he only had the leg drop, body slam, a few punches and hulked out, other than that he didn't do much, ok, now that that's out of the way, i think if Cena shouldn't be concidered a legend, he's very close.

But to be honest, the man has acomplished a lot during his time in the WWE, and it pains me that people say that he's there because he kisses Vince McMahon's ass, so every superstar that made it big in the WWE means that they all kissed McMahon's ass?? Every one mentions Austin, The Rock, Flair, etc. there are different eras, every era had a face of the company, the 80's had Hogan, the Macho Man, then shortly after that there where Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels, after that there was Austin, the Undertaker, Triple H and the Rock, and after that we have Cena, the guy whether you like him or you hate him, has made his way by also having some memoreble matches and feuds with Edge, so i think if Cena is not a legend, at least he is a legendary figure.........

 

[Suibon]

Legends don't get booed consistently when they are babyfaces. Yes, Rock was booed at WM18, but was it every week for years as has been the case with Cena? No.

This was bullshit when this came up earlier, and this is still bullshit. To wit, saying that John Cena is not a legend - that John Cena sucks, that John Cena is shit, that John Cena doesn't deserve the respect you don't show - merely because the reaction he gets is not what a babyface is expected get is missing the point.

It doesn't really matter if Cena is being booed, or even the reasons why he is being booed; what matters is if Cena is interesting enough to garner reactions, whatever they may be. And judging by his position in the company and the renown he has achieved inside and outside of it? Surely - surely he qualifies.

But don't let logic get in the way of your own bias: I mean, you have a name and an education unlike the rest of us schmucks -- you gotta live it up, boy!
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[Wrestlemania 20-0]

it's not you are winning ten times champion you have an legend,an guy like Lou thesz is a legend,Dory funk Junior was an legend too.

John Cena is simply an guy with an costume of superheroes it's not in rapport with wrestling,he is also the one wrestler in the company never change his gimmick about ten years at the difference of Taker reinvented himself.
One thing again his moveset are totally limited to five keys and that's all,many wrestlers are more smart to him and they wasn't 10 times champion.
He doesn't deserve the respect that he has.

 

[Masson26]

if being booed as a babyface means your not a legend, then doesnt that mean the rock and austin arn't legends either since they where originally heels who got cheered?

so triple h, bret hart, hulk hogan, ric flair, hbk, and stone cold went and changes gimmicks all teh time after the reached success?