[Merged] Brock Lesnar Discussion **KEEP IT ALL IN HERE!**

Maybe Trips can put him over at Over the Limit?

I can see it happening.....and this time, instead of a part-time performer like Triple H coming in and defeating the guy who's hot at the moment (i.e.; Kevin Nash and C.M. Punk), I think Trips allows himself to be beaten by Brock, furthering the man's reputation as a monster heel, which was only slightly tarnished by his loss to Cena in his first match back. If it happens, it also fortifies the notion that Trips operates in the best interest of the company, not his own glory.

Of course, Randy Orton is on the horizon and if Triple H isn't to be Brock's next opponent, I think Randy will. The two could put on a great match; Randy has the size, toughness and repertoire to make it look believable.

And speaking of believable, since Brock is here for a year and will be facing only top opposition, you figure he'll eventually be in the ring against C.M. Punk. I have to admit I wonder how realistic this will look; Punk looks frail next to Brock. Punk has the moves to look good against almost anyone, but how will a match against a monster who barrels right through his opponent look with Punk providing the opposition? I suppose he's enough of a workman that he'll somehow bring it off, but for the time being, I'd rather see Brock fight people who can match up against him physically, like Triple H and Randy Orton.
 
Doesn't Punk have an at least working knowledge of Muay Thai and / or Brazilian Jiu Jitsu? If so I could see him putting up a better match with Lesnar. Hell, maybe do an entire MMA bout, sort of like Japans 'shoot style'.
 
I don't like how everyones saying triple h is going to hog the spotlight tonight. I know what's going to happen tonight. They're going to announce that Cena needs to take some timeoff, Lesnars gonna come out and brag the cena won the battle but lost the war, then Batista is going to return. Start a fued with Lesnar, Ect Ect. Batista has been talking about how he's getting closer and closer to making a big career announcement on Twitter. Think about it! Batista left the next night on raw after losing to Cena at Extreme Rules. Triple H isn't going to start a fued with Brock or Laurinitis. Him and Laurinitis were talking about "buisness" last night at extreme rules and they both seemed to be getting along which means the announcement needs to be something else.
 
I would like to see the Undertaker feud with Brock. Undertaker confronted Brock at the UFC match. The feud already has a solid base, why not run with it.
 
I'm sure it's going to be Orton Vs Lesnar. What else is there really for him to do? I highly doubt they will have him face Punk who they have said they will start using in a lot for PR and marketing stuff. I have a feeling that DB is going back to RAW and after a feud with Lord Tensi (YAWN), it will be DB vs Punk.

THOUGH I'd love to see Lesnar/Sheamus because Sheamus is so one dimensional that feud would work.

GOD PLEASE NO MORE HHH!
 
I've read nothing but bitching about how golden balls lost last night... He lost on a chain to the forehead and the F-U. I've seen better lose on less. He kicked the shit out of Cena for damn near 20 minutes. If someone complains that his loss killed his momentum... they haven't really paid attention to the man at all... I feel like it will push him into a monster rage and get a better pay off at the end of it all.

As for his next feud... I'd like to see Undertaker but not until Summerslam. That match needs to have a huge payoff and that would be it.
 
I've read nothing but bitching about how golden balls lost last night... He lost on a chain to the forehead and the F-U. I've seen better lose on less. He kicked the shit out of Cena for damn near 20 minutes. If someone complains that his loss killed his momentum... they haven't really paid attention to the man at all... I feel like it will push him into a monster rage and get a better pay off at the end of it all.

As for his next feud... I'd like to see Undertaker but not until Summerslam. That match needs to have a huge payoff and that would be it.

Summerslam would be the best, leaves the result a mystery since the streak isn't involved. I don't know why people want to see Lesnar vs Taker at Mania the result would be way too predictable. Yeah, it'd be a money match, but I think it would be better if it was the main event of a big ppv, not second fiddle like the hell in a cell with HHH.
 
Not sure if anyone has stated this yet (lots of posts to filter through), but where can they possibly go with Lesnar at this point ? As my girlfriend said last night (and she's not a huge wrestling fan), who in their right mind would want to fight Lesnar ? He took arguably the strongest and toughest dude in the WWE and beat the living hell out of him at Extreme Rules, whether it was legit or not. Her direct quote was, "Can you imagine the woo woo guy or Santino fighting that beast ?!?!"

The WWE made Lesnar an unstoppable monster last night who can destroy everyone in his path, but that's the problem. It took Super Cena a chain and a set of steel steps to stop him. Those two items are presumably only available one night a year, at Extreme Rules.

And where can Lesnar go from here ? He started at the top. It's all downhill from here when it comes to tough talent. If Lesnar does the same type of stuff to anyone else in the company, there would be zero believability to anyone else being able to withstand that type of punishment. Maybe the Big Show. Maybe Ryback (and it's a BIG maybe). But Cena is the perfect mix of size, strength, ability and most importantly, sellability (which isn't a word) with the "WWE Universe". People believe he can withstand a beating like that and win, which he did. Is there anyone else on the roster that we could honestly believe / think could withstand a punishment like that and walk away ?

Hate on Cena if you want... and I'm no Cena lover... but he provides the WWE with things that others simply do not and that's why he's where he is and why he provides so much for the company.
 
John Cena NEEDED that win. Think about it. Brock Lesnar already defeated John Cena twice. What would be the point in him defeating him again? If Lesnar was unstoppable then and is unstoppable now, then where does that leave all the others on the roster? It only goes to show that no one who faced Lesnar back then has developed/changed. For all the loyalty that John Cena has given the WWE, why would they make their #1 babyface lose AGAIN after The Rock and Lord Tensai? It's not like they're turning Cena heel, so why would they give him losses that he actually doesn't need? This is the first time John Cena defeated Brock Lesnar and there is plenty of competition for Brock Lesnar. He's an ass kicker, and that's why he'll go on to fight or can go on to fight guys like Triple H, Randy Orton, Undertaker and Sheamus. I kind of wish Batista was still with the company 'cause that guy had the power and size to match Brock Lesnar. All in all, just because he's got an MMA background now doesn't mean he's invincible in the WWE. He'll win some and he'll lose some. Maybe sometime down the road, he'll beat John Cena just to appease the marks. No matter what the case is, Lesnar has proven himself to be a huge threat. It's not over for him.
 
Have we ever really seen Cena completely dominated like that? He literally got ZERO offense in, and whenever he tried, it was like he was hitting a piece of iron. His attempts became more and more futile. Lesnar was just too big and powerful. Cena literally got manhandled from the opening bell. The only reason Lesnar lost is because he got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, just like he did against Mir in his first UFC bout. I highly doubt Lesnar would sign a lucrative contract to return to pro wrestling to be made to look like a fool. He looked amazing last night (far better than I expected), and I think tonight he'll make it clear that he doesn't care about wins and losses. He did what he originally set out to do - he got rid of Cena (supposedly Cena is taking a break).
 
Is everyone forgetting that Brock Lesnar has been beaten in a WWE ring? All 5'8", 200 pounds of Eddie Guerrero beat him. In fact, wait... John Cena beat him. Last night.

I haven't seen the match yet and so maybe I should just shut up, but I don't quite get the whole "there's no where left for Brock to go" angle. He lost. He might have injured the guy, he might have dominated him, but he still lost. Think of it this way: if a team turns the ball over 10 times in the Super Bowl and amasses less than 100 yards of offense but somehow hangs in to kick a field goal to win 3-0, are they not champions?

It's professional wrestling. Anyone can beat anyone. If Lesnar appears dominant, it is because they want him to appear dominant. But they certainly don't want him to appear unbeaten. He's 0-1 since he came back. He can be toppled. It might defy all odds and logic, but so does the belief that one dominant losing effort leaves him at a dead end.
 
Is everyone forgetting that Brock Lesnar has been beaten in a WWE ring? All 5'8", 200 pounds of Eddie Guerrero beat him. In fact, wait... John Cena beat him. Last night.

I haven't seen the match yet and so maybe I should just shut up, but I don't quite get the whole "there's no where left for Brock to go" angle. He lost. He might have injured the guy, he might have dominated him, but he still lost. Think of it this way: if a team turns the ball over 10 times in the Super Bowl and amasses less than 100 yards of offense but somehow hangs in to kick a field goal to win 3-0, are they not champions?

It's professional wrestling. Anyone can beat anyone. If Lesnar appears dominant, it is because they want him to appear dominant. But they certainly don't want him to appear unbeaten. He's 0-1 since he came back. He can be toppled. It might defy all odds and logic, but so does the belief that one dominant losing effort leaves him at a dead end.



You clearly do not understand the dynamic, Brock Lesnar was/is the biggest draw in UFC/Pro Wrestling, the PPVs he was on did Wrestlemania bussiness, thats right, Any show where he fought was like WM. No WWE star, past or present has had that big of a cult following. Only Mayweather and Pacman in the world of Boxing drew more.

By having him lose, he becomes "just another WWE guy", just like he was before he went to UFC. All future feuds with Orton, Taker, Hunter or whomever have been tainted beyond repair.

All the stuff that UFC did for WWE in this deal has been thrown out the window, all his mystique and presence is gone. A Lesnar - Taker match at Mania now means nothing, might aswell have had Big Show vs Taker.


All that and for what? Is Cena now a bigger star than he was before that match? Is he even 0,01% more credible, bigger, more popular than he was before this match? Nope, he is in the exact same spot he always was.

Nothing was achieved here, future feuds with Lesnar have been cut in half, money burnt. I doubt Brock cares at all, hell im pretty sure he wouldnt mind jobbing to Santino.

They had a golden chance, and VINTAGE WWE they blew it, just like Invasion, nWo, Steiner, Goldberg, RVD, Booker T, Nexus, CM Punk, Bret Hart and now Brock Lesnar. They know how to take something and rip the interest straight out of it.
 
You clearly do not understand the dynamic, Brock Lesnar was/is the biggest draw in UFC/Pro Wrestling, the PPVs he was on did Wrestlemania bussiness, thats right, Any show where he fought was like WM. No WWE star, past or present has had that big of a cult following. Only Mayweather and Pacman in the world of Boxing drew more.

By having him lose, he becomes "just another WWE guy", just like he was before he went to UFC. All future feuds with Orton, Taker, Hunter or whomever have been tainted beyond repair.

All the stuff that UFC did for WWE in this deal has been thrown out the window, all his mystique and presence is gone. A Lesnar - Taker match at Mania now means nothing, might aswell have had Big Show vs Taker.


All that and for what? Is Cena now a bigger star than he was before that match? Is he even 0,01% more credible, bigger, more popular than he was before this match? Nope, he is in the exact same spot he always was.

Nothing was achieved here, future feuds with Lesnar have been cut in half, money burnt. I doubt Brock cares at all, hell im pretty sure he wouldnt mind jobbing to Santino.

They had a golden chance, and VINTAGE WWE they blew it, just like Invasion, nWo, Steiner, Goldberg, RVD, Booker T, Nexus, CM Punk, Bret Hart and now Brock Lesnar. They know how to take something and rip the interest straight out of it.

I agree with you here, although I would say his future fueds and position are far from worthless, he still absolutely dominated the match and looked like an absolute beast, yet I can't fathom the logic in making him ultimately lose.

Cena is taking a break anyway, thus Lesnar will be moving on the loss not only damages his mystique and aura of invincibility but by proxy it makes everybody else he is going to steamroller until cena's return weak as well. It basically puts an exclamation mark on the already obvious that noone else on the current roster can touch Cena as an in-ring competitor.

Surely it would have made more sense to have Brock destory cena, much like he did for most of the match, hit the F5 get the win and have cena so badly hurt that he needs time off to recover. This way Lesnar looks like an asbolute monster and other guys like Orton or Punk don't seem as weak for being unable to get the elusive victory. Whilst upon Cena's return the stakes are set for a grandstand match in which he has to overcome the odds, like never before to prevail. By having Cena win the initial bout the significance of his return match is undermined.
 
You clearly do not understand the dynamic, Brock Lesnar was/is the biggest draw in UFC/Pro Wrestling, the PPVs he was on did Wrestlemania bussiness, thats right, Any show where he fought was like WM. No WWE star, past or present has had that big of a cult following. Only Mayweather and Pacman in the world of Boxing drew more.

By having him lose, he becomes "just another WWE guy", just like he was before he went to UFC. All future feuds with Orton, Taker, Hunter or whomever have been tainted beyond repair.

All the stuff that UFC did for WWE in this deal has been thrown out the window, all his mystique and presence is gone. A Lesnar - Taker match at Mania now means nothing, might aswell have had Big Show vs Taker.


All that and for what? Is Cena now a bigger star than he was before that match? Is he even 0,01% more credible, bigger, more popular than he was before this match? Nope, he is in the exact same spot he always was.

Nothing was achieved here, future feuds with Lesnar have been cut in half, money burnt. I doubt Brock cares at all, hell im pretty sure he wouldnt mind jobbing to Santino.

They had a golden chance, and VINTAGE WWE they blew it, just like Invasion, nWo, Steiner, Goldberg, RVD, Booker T, Nexus, CM Punk, Bret Hart and now Brock Lesnar. They know how to take something and rip the interest straight out of it.

Dude, that's an exaggeration.

Lesnar dominated the WWE and became WWE Champion and already beat John Cena twice.

He went to UFC and became UFC Champion.

Brock Lesnar has NOTHING more to prove. He's dominated both MMA and Pro Wrestling. How does losing ONE match where he dominated 98% of it mean the end of Brock Lesnar? That's ridiculous. In the end of the day, it doesn't make him 'just another WWE superstar' because he's done what others on the WWE roster haven't -- making it to the top of UFC. He is still a beast that made Cena look like a rag doll. The reality is, Brock Lesnar CAN beat John Cena, already has twice in the past and his year isn't over yet so the possibilities are endless.

Remember Ken Shamrock and Dan Severn when they came to the WWE? Owen Hart beat Ken Shamrock and The Rock beat Dan Severn. Were their reputations tarnished because of that? Absolutely not! Dan Severn won the NWA World Championship before entering the WWE and Ken Shamrock won the King of the Ring tournament. They were still billed as legit fighters. I don't know if you remember that one match between Undertaker and Ken Shamrock at Backlash 1999 where Ken dominated most of the match and STILL lost.

You have to remember that in the WWE, John Cena is the top guy. Losing to him no matter where you come from is to be expected. Brock Lesnar is still a draw. People will watch him regardless of the outcome. Having John Cena lose is something more baffling to me simply due to the fact that it shows that John Cena STILL can't beat one out of the two guys (the other being The Rock) he NEEDS to beat. What was all that time spent during Lesnar's absence worth if he still can't beat Lesnar? Even after winning the match against Lesnar using a chain, Cena STILL looked less credible than Lesnar. If anything, Cena is the only one looking weak out of this.
 
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Ok So let's get this out of the way. I HATE Brock Lesnar...Yes he is a powerhouse and he's a great athlete but he is such a prick and a douchebag and I am glad that John Cena beat him at Extreme Rules.

Now to get onto the topic of the post.

At the beginning of Monday Night Raw Brock and Triple H ended up in a confrontation that ended with Brock "breaking" Triple H's arm. Now I'm sure it's just a storyline thing but the way his arm snapped looked pretty damn real (and don't go on thos whole thing that wrestling is fake....Trust me I know) but the thing is Brock came back from UFC where the action and hitting is real.

With that being said I believe that he has forgotten that WWE is NOT UFC and I think his rampages and him snapping is too dangerous for WWE Superstars.

I don't really want people coming on here and trashing this thread because I know a lot of it is storyline and such but I think he may be taking the liberties that creative is giving him too far.

Your thoughts and opinions?
 
I don't really want people coming on here and trashing this thread because I know a lot of it is storyline and such but I think he may be taking the liberties that creative is giving him too far.

I won't trash your thread but it is all storyline. That's Brock's gimmick right now. This whole legitimacy gimmick is supposed to get you go question your better judgment. Everyone knows Lesnar is coming from UFC and never really cared for pro wrestling. He's the prefect guy to get you to suspend your disbelief and wonder if just maybe some of the stuff he's doing is real. It's not. Some of his stuff may be a little stiff but I'm sure that's by design and his opponents are aware of it and prepared for it.
 
Brock was defeated in UFC though to guys, and you have to remember, the last few fights lesnar had, he looked very weak.
 
You clearly do not understand the dynamic, Brock Lesnar was/is the biggest draw in UFC/Pro Wrestling, the PPVs he was on did Wrestlemania bussiness, thats right, Any show where he fought was like WM. No WWE star, past or present has had that big of a cult following. Only Mayweather and Pacman in the world of Boxing drew more.

By having him lose, he becomes "just another WWE guy", just like he was before he went to UFC. All future feuds with Orton, Taker, Hunter or whomever have been tainted beyond repair.

All the stuff that UFC did for WWE in this deal has been thrown out the window, all his mystique and presence is gone. A Lesnar - Taker match at Mania now means nothing, might aswell have had Big Show vs Taker.


All that and for what? Is Cena now a bigger star than he was before that match? Is he even 0,01% more credible, bigger, more popular than he was before this match? Nope, he is in the exact same spot he always was.

Nothing was achieved here, future feuds with Lesnar have been cut in half, money burnt. I doubt Brock cares at all, hell im pretty sure he wouldnt mind jobbing to Santino.

They had a golden chance, and VINTAGE WWE they blew it, just like Invasion, nWo, Steiner, Goldberg, RVD, Booker T, Nexus, CM Punk, Bret Hart and now Brock Lesnar. They know how to take something and rip the interest straight out of it.


Mark Madden made this point and I disagreed then as I do now for this reason alone. Lesnar lost, have you lost interest in him? Has anyone lost interest in him? And if so is it because he lost or because he's now got a reputation as being dangerous to work with? Seriously, just another guy? He's still Brock Lesnar. He's still a draw. Mark Madden may bully people into agreeing with his blow hard logic, but that doesn't make it true.
 
To me (someone who notices WWE's many faults but is able to see the positives in things, even though I am not oblivious to the negatives) even if someone loses a big match (or depending on the wrestler, several matches in a row) they still usually look fine if they still continue to put up a fight in the following matches and segments (even if they lose matches) and show that they're not going to just sit down and act like they have no chance. If someone loses several matches they are often referred to as "being buried" but if they look like they had a good chance of winning then I usually let it pass, even if I prefer a win. After last night, I didn't expect Brock to be portrayed as showing any signs of having lost any credibility from his loss and based on tonight I still feel that way. I understand and appreciate that a lot of people feel the opposite.
 
After last night, I'm more confused than anything. Lesnar beat the shit out of Cena for roughly 20 minutes, got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and was upset by Cena. I was fairly shocked, as I'm sure most fans were. Then Cena cuts one of his famous smiley, "please like me" promos that left a sour taste in my mouth. Nevertheless, I was intrigued by the fallout on Raw and how Cena would be written off TV (presumably by Lesnar). Instead, Lesnar takes out HHH, walks off, and Cena comes out and says "hey, I'm fine!" and starts a program with Tensai/Johnny.


I know we're all supposed to suspend disbelief, but I'm having a hard time doing that with this one. Lesnar, whether the guys in the back like it or not, is the biggest star they have. People pay to see him kick ass. So what happens? He kicks ass, loses, and Cena basically no-sells the ass kicking. Everything comes full circle and cleans the slate. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, and as always, I'll give it time to unravel, but as of now I'm way less interested than I was 48 hours ago.
 
Confused is the best way to describe the situation with Brock. This stinks of wwe scrambling with zero solid plans just like the Nash storyline (he texted himself...brilliant). Things just don't add up. Based on the prevailing thought that after the ppv match Cena was injured and going to take a month or two off it made perfect sense for Brock to start up with HHH. I was happy to see Brock "injure" HHH at the start of raw. But with Cena seemingly not taking time off when he comes out that had me questioning what the hell they were doing. So Cena is fine (relatively) but won't have a rematch with Brock at the next ppv. Instead he's now in a program with Laurenitis/Tensai. Sense no make. If they were going to keep Cena around then why the hell didn't they have Brock either "break" Cenas arm at the beginning of raw or do the attack that Laurenitis did at the end of raw? Now I feel Brock is being prematurely thrust into a new storyline that didn't have to happen for months.
 
After last night, I'm more confused than anything. Lesnar beat the shit out of Cena for roughly 20 minutes, got caught with his hand in the cookie jar, and was upset by Cena. I was fairly shocked, as I'm sure most fans were. Then Cena cuts one of his famous smiley, "please like me" promos that left a sour taste in my mouth. Nevertheless, I was intrigued by the fallout on Raw and how Cena would be written off TV (presumably by Lesnar). Instead, Lesnar takes out HHH, walks off, and Cena comes out and says "hey, I'm fine!" and starts a program with Tensai/Johnny.


I know we're all supposed to suspend disbelief, but I'm having a hard time doing that with this one. Lesnar, whether the guys in the back like it or not, is the biggest star they have. People pay to see him kick ass. So what happens? He kicks ass, loses, and Cena basically no-sells the ass kicking. Everything comes full circle and cleans the slate. Maybe I'm reading too much into this, and as always, I'll give it time to unravel, but as of now I'm way less interested than I was 48 hours ago.

I completely agree. I thought there was no way in hell they could screw up Brock's return but right now I'm scratching my head about it. Like you, I'm going to be patient and see where this is all going but it doesn't look good.
 
What a strange 24 hours, so much so that i truly believe, from the bottom of my heart that WCW 99 could have booked this better than these clowns did. Cena says he is leaving and they even goddamn play this speech throughout RAW and he is...back? Feuding with Johnboy here? Goes from a UFC champ to a old corporate shrill in a month? What?

What planet are we on anymore? I cannot comprehend what the **** they are thinking. Tough who is surprised that Hunter vs Lesnar will happen? And who the hell do you think will go over there? Not the guy the are paying millions and is still active, but Triple H, because he needs to beat everybody.

How is nobody in that company willing enough to go up to Vince and just tell him to watch the last 2 Raws + Extreme Rules + last nights Raw and ask him what he really thinks of that? How can anyone look at those 4 shows and make any sense of them?
 
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I'm still confused why they let Lesnar job this early? They could've done so much with Cena if he lost and lost big. Really could've put some depth this his character. I mean, he could start to "embrace the hate." He could've even done a whole angle where he is afraid of Lesnar, but fights his fear of him in order to beat him at a Summerslam rematch that would've been bigger than their initial match.

So much lost opportunity here. And I can guarantee you Lesnar isn't as much of a draw to the casual fan anymore by jobbing him this soon.
 
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I'm still confused why they let Lesnar job this early? They could've done so much with Cena if he lost and lost big. Really could've put some depth this his character. I mean, he could start to "embrace the hate." He could've even done a whole angle where he is afraid of Lesnar, but fights his fear of him in order to beat him at a Summerslam rematch that would've been bigger than their initial match.

So much lost opportunity here. And I can guarantee you Lesnar isn't as much of a draw to the casual fan anymore by jobbing him this soon.

Do you REALLY think Cena would actually fear Brock Lesnar? Do you think John Cena would be one to "embrace the hate?" Nope. That's not who Cena is, so why try to change him into that? Look, it's been three days since we saw that match at Extreme Rules -- we have absolutely no idea where the WWE is taking this. Give it some time. People have been way too quick to dismiss WWE's decision in booking John Cena to go over Brock Lesnar, but why? Lesnar beat Cena's ass that ENTIRE match. He controlled 95% of the offense, only to lose at the very end to a freaking hail mary by Cena. Hell, Lesnar still did more damage to Cena that Cena did to him, he still looked absolutely terrifying. What's wrong with giving Cena the win he so desperately needed?

Jesus, people, Brock Lesnar probably won't feel the affects of this loss in the long run. Not only did he injure Cena in the match -- possibly helping put Cena out of action -- but he went after Triple H too and broke HIS arm. Lesnar has been unstoppable, he's been a wrecking machine, a near-fluke loss to Cena isn't going to change that. Just because he lost one match doesn't mean he's no longer a mainstream draw. Shit, I'd reckon he's even more of a draw, in the casual fans' eyes, just because of what he did last night on Raw. How many people are given the opportunity to tear into this many of WWE's top guys on such a limited build? Not very many.

Let's stop jumping to asinine conclusions and freaking out over minuscule things. Lesnar lost one match. ONE. It's not like he lost to a scrub, either. He dominated John Cena, only to lose it right at the very end. This lends itself to allow for more character development with Brock Lesnar, it's a fine move by the WWE. If rumors swirling around are true, Lesnar's due for a huge push anyway -- he'll probably be tearing through the whole WWE roster this Summer. This won't due much for Lesnar, other than just build a future rematch with Cena, where he can conceivable go over.
 

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