Daggers & Dragons: Ask me stuff

There's plenty of things you can do.You could switch to a different kind of world. I know you're also a big JRPG fan. You can always go on real world adventures where Theron feels out of place. You can always have a minimal D&D part in the end. You can always go a more lighthearted route. Perhaps sprinkle some comedy or lampshading.

Killjoy summed it up for my perspective.

Theron in his own world was great, now it is teetering between repetition and boring, especially since Theron does Theron things on the WZCW shows. The shows aren't in Theron's world and it makes him interesting. Take Theron to a new world and make him interact there. New world doesn't have to be specialised, it can be as a simple as the real world. Hell, that's probably the most effective.

You can easily get away with Theron Daggershield going grocery shopping, or paying bills. Have Theron be his own character and showing the disconnect between two worlds. The potential for comedy is insane, and it's a tried and true technique in story-telling. Also works for serious story-telling. It'll be a bit difficult to write, trying to describe a real world place like a grocery store through the eyes of Theron, whilst still remaining in the real world and not be in Theron's world... but I think you can do it.

Don't fall into the trap of going balls to the walls on a new method, neither. If you take this suggestion, make sure to keep Theron having thoughts and whatnot. Don't write a comedy scene and only a comedy scene. Keep talking about matches and character development, just use the scene to set everything up. Why put Theron in a grocery store getting confused when he doesn't acknowledge his opponent?
 
Maybe it needs a change of approach. I see him as such as a goody two shoes that something resembling adversity could be interesting to write about. Try a different perspective.

A different perspective as in writing from someone else's point of view for a round, or did you mean something else? It's worth a shot depending on what it is.


Just an opinion. Try to fight Theron between the fantasy world that he lives in and the real world. He doesn't need to go out of his character but a NPC constantly trying to bring him to the real world which Theron neglects. The fighting spirit of it would give him a new stuff to work with. I would also suggest some changes in the moveset.

This would lead to eliminating the Theronisms entirely. If people don't want the Theronisms anymore then I have something I could write about that.


You said Theron was a Singles wrestler.

Maybe Tagging with someone like a Luke Manson on a more permanent basis and have him mentor Luke on his way out of the dark and back into the light would breath some new life into Theron.

I have turned this down twice before. Tag teaming left a really bad taste in my mouth. If I write a solid RP but my partner's sucked or he no-shows then I suffer. I get the vision behind that rule, but it isn't fair at times. Also I would get sick of facing the same opponents over and over. The division's a bit lacking. If Rated R brought back Lexi or if Spidey made Batti his full time character, then maybe. Even then it's still a maybe.


I think ultimately a high concept character has a shelf life, so maybe Theron is coming to the end and you need to re-invent him. The way you need to do that is probably to have him told that his world is a lie and come to terms with that.

I'd wait until you have another proper actual feud before you make any hasty decisions - this cycle was without direction for you.

I agree. I have material for almost a full cycle on that off the top of my head, but I'm not wasting it on another pre-show match. Another problem is though, I would be unsure of what to do after that revelation. Theron without D&D is pretty boring.


If a change is necessary then a heel turn would get the most attention. Betray everyone around him, attack popular faces in WZCW and whatnot.

Thank you for trying to help, but please read my full post next time before responding. The only way we will ever see a heel D&D gamer is if I bring him/her in as a completely separate character. Theron would be taking a break for a cycle or two in this scenario.


There's plenty of things you can do.You could switch to a different kind of world. I know you're also a big JRPG fan. You can always go on real world adventures where Theron feels out of place. You can always have a minimal D&D part in the end. You can always go a more lighthearted route. Perhaps sprinkle some comedy or lampshading.

At the end of the day, it's you that has to experiment. I could drop these ideas, but they do depend on you being able to incorporate them.

There are worlds from other games I could try, my big concern with that is that nobody would understand the RP. D&D is close enough to Final Fantasy or Lord of the Rings that most people have a grasp of what the realm and races are like. If I throw Theron into the Star Ocean universe and he meets a Fellpool from Nede then nobody knows what that is. As for Theron in a "real world" I fear your entire team would find it dreadfully boring.


I am not sure how familiar you are with Joseph Campbell's "The Hero With A Thousand Faces", but I think it would be well worth it if you took a look at it. From my personal readings, I regard Theron as this pure, heroic being that never questions his resolve and always does the right thing. This is good, but for a lengthy story can get very repetitive. To shake it up, you can have him question said resolve. Is he truly doing the right thing? What factors are there in what he does that he never stopped to think about? Maybe he helps a village retrieve an artifact, but once he does he actually helped a village steal that artifact that was never there's to begin with. It is good to have your hero slip up at times. It makes your hero relatable. It makes your character sympathetic.

Your artifact idea could be a fun write. One big problem. How does that relate to my matches? No offense to anybody on Creative or to how this section works, but relating back to my matches sometimes feels like it hinders the story. Epic quest suddenly interrupted by "oh by the way i have a match against this other guy tomorrow!".... But I knew what I signed up for. Your video helped. I may have stumbled onto a way back into that cycle.


I added some things in my RP feedback to you on this but I think a lot of it is how you see your opponents. All have strengths, all have weaknesses. Make any into the biggest match possible, that's what I'm doing and I'm enjoying it.

Though bringing him back to humble beginnings (like Spidey said) is a good one. Think Link going back in OOT or Majora's Mask. He knows he's this huge hero but the world doesn't.

This was one of the ideas suggested that I liked the most. More of Young Theron/Shawn in a Zelda-like setting may be enjoyable both for me to write and for the fed to read.

Not much I can say that Killjoy, Spidey, or Lee haven't already said. Theron's gimmick is incredibly unique, and there's no need to strip it entirely, but seeing a bit of Shawn Dagger would be an interesting change.

Shawn Dagger without D&D is like asking Undertaker to go do a promo on Raw as Mark Calaway. Expanding more on why Theron picked up a sword may be a route, such as my response to Lee stated.


Take Theron to a new world and make him interact there. New world doesn't have to be specialised, it can be as a simple as the real world. Hell, that's probably the most effective.

You can easily get away with Theron Daggershield going grocery shopping, or paying bills. Have Theron be his own character and showing the disconnect between two worlds. The potential for comedy is insane, and it's a tried and true technique in story-telling. Also works for serious story-telling. It'll be a bit difficult to write, trying to describe a real world place like a grocery store through the eyes of Theron, whilst still remaining in the real world and not be in Theron's world... but I think you can do it.

Don't fall into the trap of going balls to the walls on a new method, neither. If you take this suggestion, make sure to keep Theron having thoughts and whatnot. Don't write a comedy scene and only a comedy scene. Keep talking about matches and character development, just use the scene to set everything up. Why put Theron in a grocery store getting confused when he doesn't acknowledge his opponent?

I didn't really understand this idea. Plus, you were on Creative when I first started. Everybody hated my "real world" RP's. I am surprised as to why anybody would ever want to read that again. My talent is as a fantasy writer. Theron being confused at the grocery store runs the risk of him looking like an idiot, I would essentially be burying myself.



With that being said, thank you to everyone who posted or PM'ed me a response. I have stumbled onto an idea of what to do this cycle with or without a feud. Whether it works or not will remain to be seen until it plays out.
 
This would lead to eliminating the Theronisms entirely. If people don't want the Theronisms anymore then I have something I could write about that

I wouldn't want Theronisms to be eliminated entirely. I just would want an outsider in the fantasy world of Theron and would try to drag him down into the real world. But the way Theron fights against it and stands up for his believes would give some new perspective.
 
I wouldn't want Theronisms to be eliminated entirely. I just would want an outsider in the fantasy world of Theron and would try to drag him down into the real world. But the way Theron fights against it and stands up for his believes would give some new perspective.

You also mentioned moveset updating. Anything in particular you think could be good? Critical Hit stays although anything else is open to revision.
 
You also mentioned moveset updating. Anything in particular you think could be good? Critical Hit stays although anything else is open to revision.

The Ultimate Weapon in particular. I really am not a fan of it. But yes, we had a brief discussion about it when you debuted that move. And you've DX "Taunt" as a move. If I'm not wrong, Killjoy has "spit the coke" as a signature spot. In that way, if you make that a signature spot, you might can add another move.

I saw his fighting style as "Showman". Add some fancy moves in that way.

Armbar, Turnbuckle Clothesline and Knee drop looks quite customary. Add some theatrics to that.

For instance, Knee Drop (AJ Styles style/Charlotte Style). Discuss Elbow Smash instead of the normal one. Some minor changes might can do the job.

Anyhow, These are just my perspective on how I see Theron.
 
For the record I think Dagger teaming with Luke Manson would be the worst thing Dagger could do.
 
Also agreed and its my character. I'm still trying to write him and figure out a good thing...like I a had with armando pre missy. That's some of my best work and it's average at best...it would be fun and an honour but I don't want to drag anyone down.
 
Want a critical view?

You want to change, but you also don't at the same time. From the responses you gave to the feedback and suggestions, it seems like you already have an idea of what you want and you're trying to reinforce it. Throw your preconceptions out the window, don't just assume that you'd turn into Mark Calloway if you wrote a RP outside the world of D&D. Dismissing suggestions instead of brainstorming from the base idea will never help you.

For example;
Back when you originally wrote those real world RPs, there was indeed a problem in the way the real world aspect was approached, but the writing as a whole wasn't spectacular anyway. Now that you've grown as a writer it may be interesting to see how you handle something different. Experiment on what "different" means to you.

The thing that you've now come up against is that for the better part of ever, what we have expected from you has been exactly what we got - and now it's starting to impact the RPs. It happens to everyone and you'll end up trapped within that box if you don't figure out a way to change it. What happened to change Mikey, Tastic and Constantine from perennial midcarders to now being the central focus of the world championship? They didn't just rise to the top by sticking around until the top left.
 
Want a critical view?

You want to change, but you also don't at the same time. From the responses you gave to the feedback and suggestions, it seems like you already have an idea of what you want and you're trying to reinforce it.

You're close. The truth is, I thought nothing was wrong. I did not feel a change was needed until I read Killjoy's feedback. Then I questioned whether I should continue writing the character or not. If Creative doesn't like the character anymore and I am not having fun writing him anymore, then what's the point?


Throw your preconceptions out the window, don't just assume that you'd turn into Mark Calloway if you wrote a RP outside the world of D&D. Dismissing suggestions instead of brainstorming from the base idea will never help you.

The Mark Calaway comment is because the gimmick is a D&D player who thinks he actually is his character. Remove that aspect and he's just another boring adult. The character doesn't work without D&D. I'll try writing this round from Tiffany's perspective, but I guarantee you it will lose.


For example;
Back when you originally wrote those real world RPs, there was indeed a problem in the way the real world aspect was approached, but the writing as a whole wasn't spectacular anyway. Now that you've grown as a writer it may be interesting to see how you handle something different. Experiment on what "different" means to you.

I always was under the impression it was uninteresting, not unspectacular. I've tried once recently to write something for an RP that took place in "our" world and felt it was utter garbage and deleted it.


The thing that you've now come up against is that for the better part of ever, what we have expected from you has been exactly what we got - and now it's starting to impact the RPs.

Why is that a bad thing? If you know what to expect, then that's a good thing unless you don't like what is expected. If people don't like the character anymore I'll just retire him after this cycle. Problem solved.


It happens to everyone and you'll end up trapped within that box if you don't figure out a way to change it. What happened to change Mikey, Tastic and Constantine from perennial midcarders to now being the central focus of the world championship? They didn't just rise to the top by sticking around until the top left.

I don't see that monumental of a change. Their characters have evolved some, but not colossally. They have stayed true to who they are. Let's take Kane as an example. Tastic, Mikey, and Constantine have gone through "un-masked Kane to masked Kane" types of changes. Theron going from D&D to "real world" makes me feel like I'm being asked to go from being Kane to going back to being Isaac Yankem.
 
"The character doesn't work without D&D" this may be the base of your problem. Rigid thinking like that was what I was talking about, you may think that there's no possible way to write a Theron piece that doesn't conform with that rigid theory, but I have a strong feeling that if you take a few steps back from the character you may strike gold. Got a whiteboard or notepad? I was serious about brainstorming - do it. Write Theron in the middle of the page and find as many branches as you can, and then find twice as many branches from those branches. You'll learn something regardless of if it helps in the short term.

On the "we know what to expect" front: the median quality of the fed will always catch up, people will begin to leapfrog you, or they'll develop a way to win against your specific character. What is your plan if any of this happens? This is going to be something that Garth Black will end up facing too - he can only write the same thing so many times before creative either has to accommodate for it via dodgy endings to matches or putting him on ascension against a lower opponent to help the gimmick. Even then, "they're holding me back" loses its lustre a little because now the audience know what's going on.

"I don't see that monumental of a change" - that's the point. Look deeper at the little things.
 
"The character doesn't work without D&D" this may be the base of your problem. Rigid thinking like that was what I was talking about, you may think that there's no possible way to write a Theron piece that doesn't conform with that rigid theory, but I have a strong feeling that if you take a few steps back from the character you may strike gold. Got a whiteboard or notepad? I was serious about brainstorming - do it. Write Theron in the middle of the page and find as many branches as you can, and then find twice as many branches from those branches. You'll learn something regardless of if it helps in the short term.

Couldn't hurt. What kind of branches are we talking about? His relationships to his girlfriend and friends outside of their characters? His likes and dislikes? Those are the main things that came to mind.


On the "we know what to expect" front: the median quality of the fed will always catch up, people will begin to leapfrog you, or they'll develop a way to win against your specific character. What is your plan if any of this happens?

The only plan I had was to try a new character at that point. I knew this was coming, but I didn't expect it to happen until at least another year.


This is going to be something that Garth Black will end up facing too - he can only write the same thing so many times before creative either has to accommodate for it via dodgy endings to matches or putting him on ascension against a lower opponent to help the gimmick. Even then, "they're holding me back" loses its lustre a little because now the audience know what's going on.

This is where I seem to be in the minority. When I know what to expect it doesn't lose lustre for me even if I "know" what's going on. I guess things just take much longer to get stale for me than they do for others.


"I don't see that monumental of a change" - that's the point. Look deeper at the little things.

Whatever it was you are referring to here appears to have gone over my head. I am genuinely trying, but do not follow.
 
Couldn't hurt. What kind of branches are we talking about? His relationships to his girlfriend and friends outside of their characters? His likes and dislikes? Those are the main things that came to mind.

Everything you think relates to Theron. Sounds like it'll take time but it doesn't take too much. The ones you thought of are big main branches, work on it and you'll come up with the little ones that truly help. I'll add two branches that should be big main ones too - WZCW, D&D.

Example of a brainstorm mind map thing:
health-map.jpg

This is where I seem to be in the minority. When I know what to expect it doesn't lose lustre for me even if I "know" what's going on. I guess things just take much longer to get stale for me than they do for others.

Black may escape the trap for another cycle or two because of how he's been presented by creative thus far (excellent protection by the way), but what I mean is that there's an opportunity down the track for an opponent to just go straight for the heart and point out how convenient it is that he's being put in situations that just so happen to make his "points" valid instead of just the same rant in a slightly different location. Then, once someone cracks how to beat Black, or in a worst case scenario - how to expose his character, his character can't do the same things anymore or at the very least they have to adapt. His worked shoots would still be the same quality and he'd probably still beat some of the opponents, but the rest would just jump over because they'd know exactly what he'd write and therefore how to write something that beats it.

Whatever it was you are referring to here appears to have gone over my head. I am genuinely trying, but do not follow.

What I'm saying is that they didn't change much in terms of their actual characters, but they upped their game slightly in other areas and used that as a platform for them to grow their characters more than they'd done in the years beforehand.
 
Everything you think relates to Theron. Sounds like it'll take time but it doesn't take too much. The ones you thought of are big main branches, work on it and you'll come up with the little ones that truly help. I'll add two branches that should be big main ones too - WZCW, D&D.

Example of a brainstorm mind map thing:
health-map.jpg

Just finished making one. It did give me insight on what some things I could try to develop are, even though I still feel a bit direction-less for this cycle right now.



What I'm saying is that they didn't change much in terms of their actual characters, but they upped their game slightly in other areas and used that as a platform for them to grow their characters more than they'd done in the years beforehand.

Right. I think I get what you meant here now after doing the brainstorming map. The D&D branch has quaternary and quinary branches while WZCW had some tertiary, and others only had primary or secondary branches. The objective would be to develop one of the weaker main branches without breaking the core concept of his character.
 
Re-did the first chapter (Ceodore's) in FF4 The After Years tonight. Found out that a certain character gets way better stats later if he never levels up before he changes his class later on.... Needless to say that was much tougher going through the thing with only Ceodore because the guy who wasn't supposed to level got to stay at zero Health the whole time. Ceodore gained nearly 40 levels by the time I finished the quest due to not sharing the EXP though, which was nice.
 
I went to Vargas without upgrading anything. Got annihilated twice. Then, read your walkthrough. Turn-based battle system is a bit difficult to understand.
 
After another stupidly impossible boss in FF Type 0 I'm off of FF games for a bit.

Sounds like how I felt about the Black Lizard who guarded a sword in a chest in FF4 The After Years. Defeating him with only Ceodore was nearly impossible. It'll be worth it when the Hooded Man changes class at the lowest level possible for him (15), his stats as a Holy Dragoon are nearly twice as high if he gets as many levels as a Holy Dragoon as possible. Anyway, the bosses in Ceodore's tale would have likely been deemed "stupidly impossible" had you fought them with only Ceodore like I was doing.


Thoughts on my WZCW App, please?

Has potential. We already spoke in the discussion of her name, glad you agree on the pronounciation. "Zayt-lin" sounds cool. "ex-at-ilyn" just comes off strange, and highly difficult to pronounce.

I would have provided more description on her appearance. "As in the image representation photo" is fine for now, but if the link to that picture ever breaks then no one reading the post would know what she looks like. Describe how she looks as if the picture wasn't there. It can help lead to things to write about down the line. Why does she have that kind of hairstyle, for example.

Becoming the "Face of Fear" sounds a lot like Bray Wyatt. I would have worded that just a little differently. In her gimmick characteristic you state she will break any rule if it means a victory, but then in her psyche you state she won't break rules despite being a heel. Which is it?

Entrance Music "No". Is it a video of Daniel Bryan screaming "NO! NO! NO!"? I would give her some kind of song, anything. Entrances add to the character.

Other than that it looks good. I'm not on creative though, so take it with a grain of salt.


I went to Vargas without upgrading anything. Got annihilated twice. Then, read your walkthrough. Turn-based battle system is a bit difficult to understand.

Vargas is really tough for that point in the game, and I would argue he is one of the tougher bosses overall. You making it that far without any type of upgrade says a lot.... You definitely should backtrack to South Figaro and head to the weapons and armor shop though. That walkthrough will tell you anything you need to know about clearing the game and trivial tidbits along the way. I need to get started on the PC version to get back through it and do the Dragon's Den sidequest. Been super busy with class lately and it takes priority. It ends in 2 months luckily.
 
Has potential. We already spoke in the discussion of her name, glad you agree on the pronounciation. "Zayt-lin" sounds cool. "ex-at-ilyn" just comes off strange, and highly difficult to pronounce.
:)
Dagger Dias said:
I would have provided more description on her appearance. "As in the image representation photo" is fine for now, but if the link to that picture ever breaks then no one reading the post would know what she looks like. Describe how she looks as if the picture wasn't there. It can help lead to things to write about down the line. Why does she have that kind of hairstyle, for example.

Becoming the "Face of Fear" sounds a lot like Bray Wyatt. I would have worded that just a little differently. In her gimmick characteristic you state she will break any rule if it means a victory, but then in her psyche you state she won't break rules despite being a heel. Which is it?
Nopes, You misunderstood it, buddy.

Gimmick Characteristic
2. Sometimes, She will break every rule just to destroy her opponent. She prefers dismantling over winning.

Character Psyche:Although she is a heel, yet she never cheats to win any bout. Her main aim is to dismantle her opponent to such extent that he/she has to lose the bout.
She will break rules to dismantle her opponents like losing by disqualification due to using chair or any external object. She will never break rules to win a bout.
Dagger Dias said:
Entrance Music "No". Is it a video of Daniel Bryan screaming "NO! NO! NO!"? I would give her some kind of song, anything. Entrances add to the character.
She doesn't believe in hyping with theatrics. She is there just to fight. Thats why she is not even backstage.

By the way, Thanks for your nice review.
 
Re-did the first chapter (Ceodore's) in FF4 The After Years tonight. Found out that a certain character gets way better stats later if he never levels up before he changes his class later on.... Needless to say that was much tougher going through the thing with only Ceodore because the guy who wasn't supposed to level got to stay at zero Health the whole time. Ceodore gained nearly 40 levels by the time I finished the quest due to not sharing the EXP though, which was nice.

This ended up being worth it, for those who were interested. The character has almost a thousand more Health Points due to the 15 other levels he gets due to not having levelled at all as the Hooded Man. The boss battle that triggers the class change was real tough for a severely under-levelled Hooded Man though.
 
I'm not sure I like my Theronism for Reynolds. :)

How do you choose them?

As I have not read your RPs yet. How would you describe them & which ones would you suggest.
 
I'm not sure I like my Theronism for Reynolds. :)

How do you choose them?

I try to come up with something similar to the actual name that sounds more gladiatorial and/or tributes it in some way. For some of the older ones I used an Elven Name Generator for some such as Leonaros Moonshadow while others like Marrmell and Sealamin Glimmergaunt were named after NPC's my DM and I made from my real D&D campaigns.


As I have not read your RPs yet. How would you describe them & which ones would you suggest.

I describe any other than this round's as a Final Fantasy or D&D cartoon. I would try to create them as such in the writing style. Theron legitimately thinks he is his character, so the world from his point of view is all D&D. As for recommendations.... Anything from last year's Gold Rush cycle "the Crusade" storyline (first four links below) and my Lethal Lottery RP from last year (bottom link below). Those are some of my favorites. Some of the graphic files may not work anymore, I noticed.


http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=289939

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=291135

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=292533

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=294007

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=299083
 

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