TNA iMPACT! LD for 03.17.11

[Tiger Chaos Theory]

If you watch the show and don't like it, your a hater, or the normal, if you don't like it, don't watch it. If you don't watch it because it's embarrassing to watch, you should'nt comment on it, becuase you don't know what you commenting on. It's just dullard's running away from having a real debate.

See, it's possible for the WWE mark's to find stuff negative with the product. But a TNA mark find's not one thing wrong with the product. Hogan can pull hit pant's down and shove his dick in the camera and the TNA defender's will be like "ratings!" I can negatively comment on the WWE product, but if I negatively comment on the TNA product, I'm not allowed to becuase I'm a wrestling fan. Which makes no sense.

I'm sorry, the show just wasn't good, at all. It's my honest opinion. If RAW wasn't good, I would say it wasn't good. It'll be the same for Smackdown!.

But, holy crap, somebody bashed TNA! No! We have to defend it. It's better than the show I don't even watch anymore. Atleast TNA have blood! That's how you people act like.

Do you have any sort of reading comprehension at all?

No one is telling you not to speak your mind but coming in here and hearing the exact same "this is tna, no logic here lolollol" jokes and constant ramblings of "tna is bad, but I'm a big enough person that I can pretend to put my bias aside" gets old as fuck fast.

If you intend to speak, at least try to make it sound like you have some variant opinion of your own and isn't just the same old TNA-bash that's been repeated to death.

 

[Shocky]

 

[ABMorales787]

I might need that for my hemmoroids.

 

[Shocky]

So much estrogen flowing in this thread. People do know there is an ignore feature right?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

That's all I ask. I really don't think it's a lot. The point is that it's oxymoronic and I do have to pick on IDR a little here. He said he doesn't complain about WWE in Raw LDs, but he did take a couple of shots in his post and spoke as though he knew the product TODAY. That's not fair considering it was preceded by "I don't watch it". I love ya, IDR, but if you don't watch it, you've kind of lost your right to judge the thing. That said, you are the TNA moderator and a good one, so let's set the example and talk about TNA, not WWE. Keep the focus and keep it TNA. Let's not make this TNA vs. WWE because honestly, it's annoying.

Objectivity is not the norm here, Yanks — not in the TNA section, not in the TNA LD's, and certainly not on this forum. It simply doesn't exist in abundance here. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of users I think are actually capable, let alone actually do objectively watch wrestling for the sole reason of objectively watching and discussing the product without bias. The number who are capable and/or do so in TNA LD's can be counted on three fingers or less.

That said, though, it's actually a rarity these days that I take a legitimate shot at WWE except in the event that I'm baited into doing so by one of the many generic [WWE] fanboys on the forum who catch me on a day when my patience is already worn thin by trying to defend a show I just so happen to enjoy and am in a sense being forced to defend by attacking their regurgitated anti-TNA rhetoric — though in reality there's no real reason I should have to justify what I like v. what I don't. In most cases I avoid engaging those types of users entirely, which is why you'll almost never see me speak in any section but the TNA section and almost always be discussing things through a TNA microscope and a TNA microscope alone. I take more shots at WWE fanboys and their utter lack of objectivity than I do the actual WWE product, regardless of whether or not everyone takes it that way or not.

Most folks here already know why I don't like WWE programming, especially the ones who've been here a while. They know that the most important aspect of any pro-wrestling programming to me is personality first and foremost and that the more subjective aspects of the shows like "quality", the amount of actual wrestling v. speech, match technique, etc. are entirely secondary and often irrelevant to my personal taste. But just to reiterate so it's clear in this argument, as far as I'm concerned the WWE simply lacks substantially in the personality department, and it's for this reason most of all that I cancelled their programming from my DVR and make a conscious effort to no longer watch. TNA does not lack in personality and has it in abundance. Add to these facts that I was also a huge WCW mark growing up and that the majority of those stars made their way to TNA at some point or another, and you've got a recipe for exactly why I am a TNA mark to begin with.

But I digress: in an ideal world I'd never have to even discuss WWE's programming as I don't actually watch it to begin with (whether anyone believes that or not — frankly, I don't care), but unfortunately this forum is not objective or ideal, and these LD's are no exception to that.

Either way — none of this really has anything to do with the negativity that plagues these LD's these days. I've yet to read a convincing argument here from any of the users who I accuse of consistently coming here only to shit on TNA and to troll the users who still enjoy the product as to how what they do could be considered anything but what Iv'e defined it as.

All I've continued to read in response to that accusation is digs at my personal tastes, an sidetracked and irrelevant argument over the validity of my opinion of WWE's product and the also sidetracked and irrelevant argument that I don't think it's OK for people to criticize TNA programming.

Frankly I've given this thread enough of my attention at this point, but I thought you deserved a response.

 

[itssoeasy123]

Do you have any sort of reading comprehension at all?

No one is telling you not to speak your mind but coming in here and hearing the exact same "this is tna, no logic here lolollol" jokes and constant ramblings of "tna is bad, but I'm a big enough person that I can pretend to put my bias aside" gets old as fuck fast.

If you intend to speak, at least try to make it sound like you have some variant opinion of your own and isn't just the same old TNA-bash that's been repeated to death.

There is no logic in TNA. Where's logic to have two dusty finishes in two show's, with the same two people. To have a 10 minute recovery for a injured wrestler? With TNA, you have to throw logic out the window.

That's one of the main flaw's in TNA with me. They get me frustrated and confused. Why not just name it a Ttriple threat Championship match already!

I have a valid opinion of my own. It's TNA just isn't that good, at all. And, no, I'm not alway's negative. I though TNA turning Fortune face was a great idea. I think TNA going live is fantastic idea. Them having Abyss off of television is the best thing they have done in month's. Bully Ray is a great heel personality.

If I watch the show, I should have the right to review it, no matter how positive or negative I am.

 

[X]

So, just finished watching last night's show. Posted up my review for those interested:


TNA iMPACT! 3/17/11 Review

 

[Tiger Chaos Theory]

There is no logic in TNA. Where's logic to have two dusty finishes in two show's, with the same two people. To have a 10 minute recovery for a injured wrestler? With TNA, you have to throw logic out the window.

That's one of the main flaw's in TNA with me. They get me frustrated and confused. Why not just name it a Ttriple threat Championship match already!

I have a valid opinion of my own. It's TNA just isn't that good, at all. And, no, I'm not alway's negative. I though TNA turning Fortune face was a great idea. I think TNA going live is fantastic idea. Them having Abyss off of television is the best thing they have done in month's. Bully Ray is a great heel personality.

If I watch the show, I should have the right to review it, no matter how positive or negative I am.

I never said you didn't have that right, I made that abundantly clear in my second sentence. Clearly you didn't read my own post that agreed with your opinion of said Dusty finish and that the 10 minute A.J. injury angle did indeed run long. What I did say was that reading the exact same thing every week for over a year now has pretty much killed any notion of an original, intelligent discussion on these forums for me.

I highlighted the important part.

 

[X]

The only thing worse than last night's show is the sandy vagina bitching of the TNA mark crew in this thread. Maybe people like myself shit on this show so much because it's, y'know, shit? I went from being the biggest TNA defender on this entire board last year (seriously, go look up the old LDs from the fall of '09 to mid-2010 and it's nothing but KB vs. me arguing about TNA, with me being the one defending everything TNA does) to someone who can't help but laugh at how pathetic every aspect of this company has become.

I literally have no understanding of how the fuck you could enjoy this show's current product. No fucking clue. What is it that appeals to you? 20 second matches? 18 seconds of wrestling in the first hour of your show? Feuds that are dropped with no conclusion whatsoever for no reason? Shitty "shoots" that would make WCW circa 2000 embarrassed? Seriously, I want someone to explain to me what the fuck is so appealing about TNA to you. The one or two good matches we get every 6 weeks or so? The middle aged has-beens taking up most of your show each week? I just don't get it.

 

[Tiger Chaos Theory]

I enjoyed the "shoot" at the beginning

 

[ABMorales787]

There is no logic in TNA. Where's logic to have two dusty finishes in two show's, with the same two people. To have a 10 minute recovery for a injured wrestler? With TNA, you have to throw logic out the window.

*sigh* GO read TV Tropes. You might learn something. Pro wrestling doesn't deal with logic. But more to the point, if the point is to book a 3 Way then it makes perfect sense because it keeps both parties looking equal as they head to face Sting. But, you know, double countouts are figments of one imagination. No way in hell can two guys lay exhausted outside the ring for over ten seconds and it's also impossible to drape your arm over the other guy while he does it too leading to a double pin. It's just a defiance of logic. It's called a stalemate. To advance the feud and remind us that both men are even.

That's one of the main flaw's in TNA with me. They get me frustrated and confused. Why not just name it a Ttriple threat Championship match already!

Because it's 6 weeks of build up. What do you want? 6 weeks worth of ridiculous tag team matches? Whine whine whine whine. They book a match and people have to knitpick at it. "Bubba doesn't belong in the main event". "AJ should be champ". "This is the same as the PPV but with two more guys". "It's another Dusty finish". Jesus Christ! Who gives a shit? They have to book a show. A show should a solid main event. So they gave you this. They baited you with a PPV match that would be resolved on TV. So you would watch TV. That way, they wouldn't have to book a major star in a squash match with a guy that has zero chance in hell.

I have a valid opinion of my own. It's TNA just isn't that good, at all.

I say the same shit about WWE. Because they can do so much better. But you know, I'm the evil "TNA mark". Sent from Mars to make WWE fans miserable. My opinion half the time means shit when it comes to WWE no matter how objective I am simply because I prefer TNA, ignoring the fact that I'm just as objective. Wanna know something? Your opinion ain't valid? Why? Logic is not an opinion. Saying "there is no logic" is not an opinion. Why? Because that is all you are saying. You are not giving me a valid reason to believe what you say. You just say it and point. Like a kid at line on a Fast Food. "I don't like that one".

And, no, I'm not alway's negative. I though TNA turning Fortune face was a great idea. I think TNA going live is fantastic idea.

Good.

Them having Abyss off of television is the best thing they have done in month's.

No way in hell that's better than Jeff off TV.

Bully Ray is a great heel personality.

Too bad he can't wrestle.

If I watch the show, I should have the right to review it, no matter how positive or negative I am.

Then please give a solid argument when doing so. Thank you.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

Like I said before I enjoyed Most of the segments but wish there was more Wrestling

 

[itssoeasy123]

The only thing worse than last night's show is the sandy vagina bitching off the TNA mark crew in this thread. Maybe people like myself shit on this show so much because it's, y'know, shit? I went from being the biggest TNA defender on this entire board last year (seriously, go look up the old LDs from the fall of '09 to mid-2010 and it's nothing but KB vs. me arguing about TNA, with me being the one defending everything TNA does) to someone who can't help but laugh at how pathetic every aspect of this company has become.

I literally have no understanding of how the fuck you could enjoy this show's current product. No fucking clue. What is it that appeals to you? 20 second matches? 18 seconds of wrestling in the first hour of your show? Feuds that are dropped with no conclusion whatsoever for no reason? Shitty "shoots" that would make WCW circa 2000 embarrassed? Seriously, I want someone to explain to me what the fuck is so appealing about TNA to you. The one or two good matches we get every 6 weeks or so? The middle aged has-beens taking up most of your show each week? I just don't get it.

That's my opinion. It's just not good anymore. Ever since Hogan's came to TNA it seem's the whole show has gone downhill.

Now, after the debacle at Victory Road, their first show is this? With a bunch of nonsense promo's, guy's being threatened with a knife, anotherr dusty finish, a ten minute recovery for a injured wrestler, and a 20 minute opening promo.

Seriously. What's so good about TNA that the TNA defender's like. The has-been's (who are there for money)? Seeing Matt hardy instead of Lethal, or Amazing Red? All the dusty finishes? Watching a guy wrestle high? Watching 10 minute's of actual wrestling. Watching all the pathetic shoot promo's. Seeing a 61 year old blade every chance he can? Watching Hogan disgrace his name and legacy, and be a pathetic prick?

I watch TNA every week. It's wrestling, I'm a wrestling fan, why would I not watch it. I just don't see what so great that makes people watch a 51 year old Champion (who's been playing a gimmick off of a character in a movie from 1993) and a 20 minute promo every week.

 

[X]

Seriously? Most of those segments were dogshit. If the WWE put on the same segments you guys would be shitting all over it. The Pope "healing" thing was a good idea, but the execution was terrible. Kurt smashes a guitar over Jeff's head...groundbreaking shit, we haven't seen that 12 BILLION TIMES in EVERY JEFF JARRETT FEUD EVER.

The opening segment wasn't bad, Sting and Hogan are always good to play off eachother. That went straight downhill once Ray showed up. Don't get me wrong, Ray is great on the mic, but when the solution to your problems is fucking BUBBA RAY DUDLEY IN THE MAIN EVENT TITLE PICTURE, you need to shake up your booking committee, I'm sorry.

Sorry to be so negative Joe, you're one of my favorite posters on this forum honestly man, I just honestly do not understand how some of you guys can continue to defend this promotion. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I literally DO NOT UNDERSTAND what appeals to you guys in this promotion. The wrestling? The wrestling product in WWE, ROH, and tons of other indies blows TNA right the fuck out of the water, no contest. The segments? Again, nothing but rehashed Russo ideas he's been recycling for the last decade. The wrestlers? That I can understand, because TNA does employ a large number of incredibly skilled wrestlers. They just have no fucking clue how to use them for the most part, so if anything I just get depressed watching how talent gets treated.

I don't know, I just seriously do not understand what about this current product is appealing. If I wasn't getting hits for reviewing the shows I'm not sure I'd even watch TNA anymore, and I fucking watch everything wrestling related from the majors, to the indies, to puro, to lucha, to freaking comedy wrestling in which a man wrestles an inflatable doll for 20 minutes.

What was special about any of those segments?

 

[Tiger Chaos Theory]

Realistically, the first week after a PPV is mostly filled with promos. It also isn't difficult to see why someone would like parts of it if they enjoyed those promos.

its so easy to see why they would enjoy it given those reasons.

 

[X]

Realistically, the first week after a PPV is mostly filled with promos. It also isn't difficult to see why someone would like parts of it if they enjoyed those promos.

its so easy to see why they would enjoy it given those reasons.

But what was special about the promos? Sting had a decent speech to start the show, the Pope idea was good but executed poorly, and the Angle-Jarrett segment isn't anything we haven't seen every single week on Impact. I mean, Angle hitting Jarrett with a guitar? I'm not sure there has ever been a single Jeff Jarrett feud in all of history in which that didn't happen.

 

[itssoeasy123]

I am not a TNA fan, and I think the product is one of the most inefficiently ran businesses in the USA right now. There aren't really any strong points to the show. I'm not sticking up for TNA fans, and I'm not sticking up for WWE fans. I am a wrestling fan, if I enjoy the product, I will watch it. TNA does not have a good enough product right now, and they have some good young talent. Until TNA shows the consistent ability to book up and coming young talent, to go along with credible baby faces, their no going anywhere.

It's just the fact that they have all of this talent, but they don't utilize it. Only talent they utilize is former WWE employee's. I swear, sometime's it's like I'm watching WCW 2000. Shoot interveiws, old has been's, former WWE talent.

They have to build up talent, and have to give young talent credibilty. They need a top face. I've seen the same core 20 guy's on TNA television the last year and a half.

 

[Tiger Chaos Theory]

What was special about any of those segments?

Naw man, I enjoyed Ray's mic work immensely last night, enough that him being a midcarder almost escaped my mind for a second. Everyone else in that segment was in top form for me and the psuedo-burial of Hardy was fun to hear. Since I like Anderson's character atm him whining seems pretty logical and I like watching it.

The Jarrett/Angle stuff, I dig the chemistry they have to together as actors.

The backstage stuff was overdone but at least laid into a bit more character development between wrestlers.

Like I said, the Pope thing was hilariously done till Joe showed up.

Everything else was pretty bad.

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

Seriously? Most of those segments were dogshit. If the WWE put on the same segments you guys would be shitting all over it. The Pope "healing" thing was a good idea, but the execution was terrible. Kurt smashes a guitar over Jeff's head...groundbreaking shit, we haven't seen that 12 BILLION TIMES in EVERY JEFF JARRETT FEUD EVER.

The opening segment wasn't bad, Sting and Hogan are always good to play off eachother. That went straight downhill once Ray showed up. Don't get me wrong, Ray is great on the mic, but when the solution to your problems is fucking BUBBA RAY DUDLEY IN THE MAIN EVENT TITLE PICTURE, you need to shake up your booking committee, I'm sorry.

Sorry to be so negative Joe, you're one of my favorite posters on this forum honestly man, I just honestly do not understand how some of you guys can continue to defend this promotion. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I literally DO NOT UNDERSTAND what appeals to you guys in this promotion. The wrestling? The wrestling product in WWE, ROH, and tons of other indies blows TNA right the fuck out of the water, no contest. The segments? Again, nothing but rehashed Russo ideas he's been recycling for the last decade. The wrestlers? That I can understand, because TNA does employ a large number of incredibly skilled wrestlers. They just have no fucking clue how to use them for the most part, so if anything I just get depressed watching how talent gets treated.

I don't know, I just seriously do not understand what about this current product is appealing. If I wasn't getting hits for reviewing the shows I'm not sure I'd even watch TNA anymore, and I fucking watch everything wrestling related from the majors, to the indies, to puro, to lucha, to freaking comedy wrestling in which a man wrestles an inflatable doll for 20 minutes.

What was special about any of those segments?

First off all thanks for the compliment X it means alot coming from you.

Its not a problem that you are being negative and I have no problem with people not enjoying the show I personally enjoy the shows but I'm not defending them or going on a rant against the people that don't like them I give my opinion on the show and I go on my way because I am not going to change any one else's opinion on the show

Never said that they were ground breaking stuff I just found them to be entertaining.I also watch ROH TNA and all of WWE I like all of the products right now but TNA is my favorite at the moment and will be for the foreseeable future

 

[Gelgarin]

Sorry to be so negative Joe, you're one of my favorite posters on this forum honestly man, I just honestly do not understand how some of you guys can continue to defend this promotion. I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, I literally DO NOT UNDERSTAND what appeals to you guys in this promotion.

Given that multiple people have explained it multiple times across multiple LD's (Including IDR just a few posts ago); coupled with the fact that you apparently take such delight in telling us what blind marks we are; I am fast heading towards the conclusion that you "not trying to be a dick" is not in fact the case.

I like the roster.
I find the characters to be more interesting and engaging that anywhere else.
I prefer the matches, partly because we still get frequent enough helpings of excellent in ring action, and partly because a match containing characters I give a shit about will always be preferable to one that does not.
Characters I give a shit about is something that only TNA is offering a the moment.
I like the general in ring product finding it to be an attractive middle ground between the mainstream and the indies.
For the most part I enjoy the booking.
I like that story structure is less formulaic.
I'm not the type to sulk because a match didn't end the way I wanted, I'd find it phenomenally dull if they always did.
I like the retro appeal of seeing guys I used to be such a huge fan of.
I like the occasional comedy and campy over-the-top-ness that are served up frequently but never become invasive.
I like the fact that I everything is done over the course of two hours a week, which is pretty much the ideal schedule for me.
I like the increased frequencies of surprise debuts and unexpected returns.
I like the fact that I can tune into Impact one evening and have such a vague idea of what is going to happen, right up until the close.

Is that enough for you?

 

[It's Damn Real!]

The only thing worse than last night's show is the sandy vagina bitching of the TNA mark crew in this thread. Maybe people like myself shit on this show so much because it's, y'know, shit? I went from being the biggest TNA defender on this entire board last year (seriously, go look up the old LDs from the fall of '09 to mid-2010 and it's nothing but KB vs. me arguing about TNA, with me being the one defending everything TNA does) to someone who can't help but laugh at how pathetic every aspect of this company has become.

I literally have no understanding of how the fuck you could enjoy this show's current product. No fucking clue. What is it that appeals to you? 20 second matches? 18 seconds of wrestling in the first hour of your show? Feuds that are dropped with no conclusion whatsoever for no reason? Shitty "shoots" that would make WCW circa 2000 embarrassed? Seriously, I want someone to explain to me what the fuck is so appealing about TNA to you. The one or two good matches we get every 6 weeks or so? The middle aged has-beens taking up most of your show each week? I just don't get it.

I'll let Gelgarin take care of that for me:

I like the roster.
I find the characters to be more interesting and engaging that anywhere else.
I prefer the matches, partly because we still get frequent enough helpings of excellent in ring action, and partly because a match containing characters I give a shit about will always be preferable to one that does not.
Characters I give a shit about is something that only TNA is offering a the moment.
I like the general in ring product finding it to be an attractive middle ground between the mainstream and the indies.
For the most part I enjoy the booking.
I like that story structure is less formulaic.
I'm not the type to sulk because a match didn't end the way I wanted, I'd find it phenomenally dull if they always did.
I like the retro appeal of seeing guys I used to be such a huge fan of.
I like the occasional comedy and campy over-the-top-ness that are served up frequently but never become invasive.
I like the fact that I everything is done over the course of two hours a week, which is pretty much the ideal schedule for me.
I like the increased frequencies of surprise debuts and unexpected returns.
I like the fact that I can tune into Impact one evening and have such a vague idea of what is going to happen, right up until the close.

Thank you, Gelgarin.

And yet again, for the umpteenth time, my job here is not to justify, defend or explain to you why I enjoy the product. I enjoy it, period. That is all that matters, because all that matters is what I think, not you, not KB, not the moderating staff, not Sly, not the rest of the IWC, not the fans at the iMPACT! Zone, not the WWE "Universe" and not anyone else for that matter — your failure to understand why is your failure, not mine, and it's your responsibility to figure it out why, not mine.

For someone who's supposed to be objectively viewing these wrestling programs you review week-after-week you sure do seem to have a difficult time allowing others to do the same as instead you continue to come here week-after-week—not a requirement of writing a successful (or unsuccessful) review, for the record—to remind us all how wrong, stupid and clueless we all are for continuing to support the very show you're "objectively" reviewing in the first place. I guess you're the only one who should be allowed to do such a thing, though, and the rest of us lesser-thans should just take what you write as gospel and stop actually liking what we want to like, instead just going with the river flow?

I like what I like and the fact you don't agree, understand or support it is unquestionably, unequivocally irrelevant. Why you fail to grasp that concept as well is also your problem, not mine.

You used to be a big fan? Awesome. You're not a fan anymore? Great. Why you feel the need to come in here like a Jehovah's Witness knocking on my door at 6am to tell me how wrong I am for continuing to support what you gave up on long ago is beyond me. No one cares what you think about what we like, man. No one. Maybe your closest buddies care, but that's only because they just so happen to share the same line of thought as you. One day when you're done standing on that soap box of superiority and self-promotion you'll understand that. Or not. Frankly, it doesn't matter.

But what the fuck do I know? I'm just another clueless, blind and wrong TNA mark and a card-carrying member of the club none of us actually know about. Go figure.

 

[shattered dreams]

Some people never figure out obvious things. But but shattered dreams brings up WWE sometimes and takes shots at them and stuff while we are here to just talk about TNA. Just talk about TNA my ass. Since when is talking about WCW just talking about TNA? What is the first thing people do if I make a thread just about WWE? Bring up how much TNA sucks. JJ says he is a prowrestling fan here to only talk about the show he is watching. Well, what about the rest of the week? Why are wrestling fans on here not here to discuss wrestling? WWE is part of wrestling, maybe the biggest part, obviously they can come up in a discussion, especially one that includes generalizations about what is "right" in the industry.

The stupid exaggerations is what TNA fans find annoying. JJ, give me a fucking break. Every TNA fan or even myself ONLY defend or talk about TNA in the context of WWE? That is a ridiculous statement and you know it. How moronic can people look saying that no one could possibly enjoy a program that is watched every week by over 1.5 million?

Most of what I do that annoys people is essentially a parody of how many post about TNA. I just change the company and it drives many of you insane. Yet, you constantly claim there is nothing wrong with how you post. Which is it?

 

[JJYanks121]

Some people never figure out obvious things. But but shattered dreams brings up WWE sometimes and takes shots at them and stuff while we are here to just talk about TNA. Just talk about TNA my ass. Since when is talking about WCW just talking about TNA? What is the first thing people do if I make a thread just about WWE? Bring up how much TNA sucks. JJ says he is a prowrestling fan here to only talk about the show he is watching. Well, what about the rest of the week? Why are wrestling fans on here not here to discuss wrestling? WWE is part of wrestling, maybe the biggest part, obviously they can come up in a discussion, especially one that includes generalizations about what is "right" in the industry.

The stupid exaggerations is what TNA fans find annoying. JJ, give me a fucking break. Every TNA fan or even myself ONLY defend or talk about TNA in the context of WWE? That is a ridiculous statement and you know it. How moronic can people look saying that no one could possibly enjoy a program that is watched every week by over 1.5 million?

Most of what I do that annoys people is essentially a parody of how many post about TNA. I just change the company and it drives many of you insane. Yet, you constantly claim there is nothing wrong with how you post. Which is it?

I think you are missing the point.

First off, did you question how I post? If that's the case, I'd like for you to pinpoint a time that I compared the two wrestling companies with the obvious objective of degrading one. See what you can find. I'm pretty sure you will come up empty.

Secondly, talking wrestling is fine, but that's not what I was questioning. What I am questioning is the defense mechanism you resort to. It's not just you, though. While I still don't understand this dichotomy of fans, where some feel like you can only like one promotion and if you do, it basically means you have to hate the other, this dichotomy does exist. With this frame of thought being there, the TNA LDs have become tough for you and others in this mindframe because you cater to it.

You see, the world isn't against you. If you think I am, then you really haven't been trying to understand me well enough. I am there with you every week that I can be, talking wrestling on Thursday nights. Yes, when I am there, it's to talk about the show that I'm watching. If I wanted to talk about WWE, Dragon Gate, ROH, CMLL, AAA, or whatever else, I wouldn't be in the LD. I'd probably be in the forums making posts on that subject. I come to the LD to talk TNA with other people who are watching the same show I am at the same time.

The problem lies within this thought process though. Perhaps there are some people that come in the LD specifically to annoy you (in fact, I'm sure there are a couple), but I'm not one of them and you know that. Thus, if I am being objective about watching the program, which I always try to be, and I find fault with it, I feel that it's fair to do so. I have that same critical eye when watching every wrestling promotion but you get to see it in regards to TNA. This, however, bothers some of you guys, though I'm assuming I bother you less than others.

The problem is that if anyone says something negative about the show and isn't already recognized as a TNA fan (read: ONLY a TNA fan and dislikes WWE), then it is assumed by that group that the person in question is a "WWE fanboy" and should be attacked. The common attack, and this is what I was referring to before, is to automatically turn around to insult WWE. Instead of defending the show you are watching, or simply turning a blind eye, the first course of action is to point to something WWE does (whether or not any of you have seen WWE in any period of time, the insults are still there whether they make a lick of sense in today's product or not), and saying those things gets a smile out of that group.

For me, I find this behavior more annoying than the criticisms of TNA because in most cases, I think the criticisms are fair and are directed at the show that is being shown. Thus, to answer back with criticisms towards a company whose programming isn't on and to propose criticism about that company that may or may not even make sense is a weak defense.

I'm assuming that you, Gelgs, IDR, and others (Killjoy comes to mind as a TNA mark who I tend to like) would love for these LDs to grow because I think you would like to see TNA grow. I can't imagine that you'd want them to keep at this audience level for another 3 years. Thus, people are going to sample the product in hopes of liking it and if you want these people to stay around, it might be more worth your while to make them feel welcome (if they behave well and deserve such respect).

Yes, I understand that some people take actions that are done specifically to get you your nerves. By you, I mean all of the noted supporters I have mentioned. Just understand though that there are some of us that don't subscribe to the thought that you can ONLY be a fan of one promotion or the other. I certainly don't and I'm never going to. There's more like me too, and those people are the ones that are actually there supporting the product by tuning in each and every week. If we find a show to be substandard, it's not because the world is against you, or because we are hoping it will fail. We might find that to be the case because some shows simply aren't so good. This is the case with ANY promotion. Don't take it to heart.

Just understand that when there is an issue, you have to look at your part and take accountability. Placing blame on everyone else for being "trolls" or whatever you are disliking them for is fine, but look at yourself and think "is there anything I could do to help this situation? were there any mistakes I made?" From my outside perspective, you and your guys could cut down on the meaningless WWE insults in the TNA LDs. It comes off as trying to knock people down pegs to come down to your level and if your goal is to get people to like TNA, perhaps even more than WWE, taking potshots whenever you get a chance certainly isn't going to do that. Being respectful might. So take accountabilty for what YOU can, and hopefully the rest will follow.

*Just a last little note: I never once said you can't enjoy the program. Hell, I do most of the time. I think some of what you posted was directed in a lot of directions but my name was the only one used in there. You know I am there every week and usually I do find some positives in there. That said, I do watch it objectively and critically. I'm a Yankee fan too, but if my team loses 15-0, I'm not going to say we played a good game. We sucked that day and hopefully tomorrow will be better. Same could be said for a bad episode. It happens, but you hope that next week is better. That is what brings us back. I don't have to find every week to be A+ stuff to be motivated to do so. I see it how I see it, but I always come back.

 

[shattered dreams]

First off, you know I do not have much of any problem with you JJ. You at least bother to explain what you are saying and discuss it for the most part. So in many ways most of these posts are only loosely tied to your actions. It isn't you that we are taking issue with. However, since you are at least reasonable, why not discuss the situation with you some more.

The myth you are buying into is that we have a problem with dissenting opinions. That is not the case. It is how this opinions are expressed. The I am an objective journalist shtick is seriously cracking me up (from everybody, not just yourself). Just call a spade a spade people. You think your opinion is important, "fair" and "justified" and to an extent the right way to go about things. The evidence for this being true is minimal at best.

The problem is that if anyone says something negative about the show and isn't already recognized as a TNA fan (read: ONLY a TNA fan and dislikes WWE), then it is assumed by that group that the person in question is a "WWE fanboy" and should be attacked.

Umm no. Joe and killjoy both watch and like WWE and critique TNA from time to time. Why you resort to these odd exaggerations I just do not understand. You are better and more intelligent than these obviously flawed blanket statements.

No one has a problem with someone saying something negative about the show here and there. What is mind boggling is that people watch every week and pick out the most irrelevant details and pretty much only say negative things. Really excessively exaggerated negative things about the product and the people that enjoy it. Then these same people tune back in next week to again watch this product that only an idiot could enjoy. What are we supposed to think about these people? When you play the "critic" card you forfeit your fan card. Yes, you can be a critic and a fan, however, when you are viewing a program as a critic it is a very different experience than viewing as a fan. When you are viewing something as a critic you are only loosely looking for enjoyment. No one nitpicks something they are truly trying to enjoy.

The common attack, and this is what I was referring to before, is to automatically turn around to insult WWE. Instead of defending the show you are watching, or simply turning a blind eye, the first course of action is to point to something WWE does (whether or not any of you have seen WWE in any period of time, the insults are still there whether they make a lick of sense in today's product or not), and saying those things gets a smile out of that group.

For me, I find this behavior more annoying than the criticisms of TNA because in most cases, I think the criticisms are fair and are directed at the show that is being shown. Thus, to answer back with criticisms towards a company whose programming isn't on and to propose criticism about that company that may or may not even make sense is a weak defense.

You did not say it was the common attack. You said it was the only attack. At least you now essentially admit that was an exaggeration. Honestly, I do not know what threads you read because it is basically one of many things that are done. The reason you fixate on it is because it annoys you but it is interesting to note it is also the one you remember. Somehow you do not remember when we do all the other things. You think the criticisms are fair and maybe we disagree. Then we say why. Mostly the comparison to WWE is either a return shot at a comment obviously meant to be a shot or most often a chance to point out interesting double standards among these "objective" people. It isn't an excuse or anything like that. It is a serious question of why is this a "fair" criticism because in the scope of the entire prowrestling industry it seems to be viewed quite differently than that more often than not.

if you want these people to stay around, it might be more worth your while to make them feel welcome (if they behave well and deserve such respect).

When did we run off anyone that was deserving of respect? Which part of you are an idiot if you like this commands respectful responses? I think it is much more likely that someone who is trying to get into TNA would be discouraged by not being able to find people to discuss what they like about the product with. Especially when instead they are greeted by a room full of people saying the whole show is terrible and insulting those that actually like it. All we are advocating is that if you really dislike what you watch on a regular basis to such a high degree maybe it isn't worth your time. IMO running out the excessive haters would actually benefit those trying to get into a TNA LD. Not sure how the LD makeup is a big factor in the growth of TNA to begin with but you brought it up so I at least commented on it.

Just understand though that there are some of us that don't subscribe to the thought that you can ONLY be a fan of one promotion or the other. I certainly don't and I'm never going to. There's more like me too, and those people are the ones that are actually there supporting the product by tuning in each and every week. If we find a show to be substandard, it's not because the world is against you, or because we are hoping it will fail. We might find that to be the case because some shows simply aren't so good. This is the case with ANY promotion. Don't take it to heart.

Everything you say is predicated on this idea that we ONLY think you can like one company. That is ridiculous and we never said it. I imagine all of us would like to feel watching WWE was worth our time but some of us do not. That is just our opinion right now. Much like you feel your opinion is justified so do we. You seem to have an extremely distorted idea of where we are coming from. Believe it or not there are a lot of people that like the things you do not, even the ones you swear are "obviously" bad. I think your mistake is that all prowrestling fans HAVE to enjoy or watch all companies. I used to buy into that idea too but the truth is it makes no sense. Why waste time on something common sense tells you that you will not enjoy? Variety is the spice of life. If all companies were the same there would be no need for different ones to exist in the first place.

 

[JJYanks121]

First off, you know I do not have much of any problem with you JJ. You at least bother to explain what you are saying and discuss it for the most part. So in many ways most of these posts are only loosely tied to your actions. It isn't you that we are taking issue with. However, since you are at least reasonable, why not discuss the situation with you some more.

The myth you are buying into is that we have a problem with dissenting opinions. That is not the case. It is how this opinions are expressed. The I am an objective journalist shtick is seriously cracking me up (from everybody, not just yourself). Just call a spade a spade people. You think your opinion is important, "fair" and "justified" and to an extent the right way to go about things. The evidence for this being true is minimal at best.



Umm no. Joe and killjoy both watch and like WWE and critique TNA from time to time. Why you resort to these odd exaggerations I just do not understand. You are better and more intelligent than these obviously flawed blanket statements.

No one has a problem with someone saying something negative about the show here and there. What is mind boggling is that people watch every week and pick out the most irrelevant details and pretty much only say negative things. Really excessively exaggerated negative things about the product and the people that enjoy it. Then these same people tune back in next week to again watch this product that only an idiot could enjoy. What are we supposed to think about these people? When you play the "critic" card you forfeit your fan card. Yes, you can be a critic and a fan, however, when you are viewing a program as a critic it is a very different experience than viewing as a fan. When you are viewing something as a critic you are only loosely looking for enjoyment. No one nitpicks something they are truly trying to enjoy.



You did not say it was the common attack. You said it was the only attack. At least you now essentially admit that was an exaggeration. Honestly, I do not know what threads you read because it is basically one of many things that are done. The reason you fixate on it is because it annoys you but it is interesting to note it is also the one you remember. Somehow you do not remember when we do all the other things. You think the criticisms are fair and maybe we disagree. Then we say why. Mostly the comparison to WWE is either a return shot at a comment obviously meant to be a shot or most often a chance to point out interesting double standards among these "objective" people. It isn't an excuse or anything like that. It is a serious question of why is this a "fair" criticism because in the scope of the entire prowrestling industry it seems to be viewed quite differently than that more often than not.



When did we run off anyone that was deserving of respect? Which part of you are an idiot if you like this commands respectful responses? I think it is much more likely that someone who is trying to get into TNA would be discouraged by not being able to find people to discuss what they like about the product with. Especially when instead they are greeted by a room full of people saying the whole show is terrible and insulting those that actually like it. All we are advocating is that if you really dislike what you watch on a regular basis to such a high degree maybe it isn't worth your time. IMO running out the excessive haters would actually benefit those trying to get into a TNA LD. Not sure how the LD makeup is a big factor in the growth of TNA to begin with but you brought it up so I at least commented on it.



Everything you say is predicated on this idea that we ONLY think you can like one company. That is ridiculous and we never said it. I imagine all of us would like to feel watching WWE was worth our time but some of us do not. That is just our opinion right now. Much like you feel your opinion is justified so do we. You seem to have an extremely distorted idea of where we are coming from. Believe it or not there are a lot of people that like the things you do not, even the ones you swear are "obviously" bad. I think your mistake is that all prowrestling fans HAVE to enjoy or watch all companies. I used to buy into that idea too but the truth is it makes no sense. Why waste time on something common sense tells you that you will not enjoy? Variety is the spice of life. If all companies were the same there would be no need for different ones to exist in the first place.

See, here's the problem with your response, and I"m not going to go line by line with it. The problem is that you are taking what I'm saying and then twisting it into what you think you heard. Somehow, you are quoting me, yet interpreting those quotes with things that just aren't there. Let's start with a few points in regards to this:

1) I get paid as a wrestling writer, so whether you want my opinion to be valid or not, someone feels that it is (the company that pays me). That said, I do not think that my opinion is any better than anyone else. In fact, I welcome a difference in opinion in regards to anything I write. In fact, I would love it if you posted some comments on my site to drive conversation to my readers and offer a counterpoint from time to time. I sincerely mean that.

2) There's a difference between critic and critical. When you are being a critic (which I am not), you are watching for things that most people won't see. You would be seeing every minor detail and examining it with great scrutiny. There are people who do that for movies, broadway shows, and music albums. I do not do this for wrestling. What I pride myself on is being a fan first and having that come through in my writing. I am passionate about wrestling and I always have been, and if the writing got in the way of being a fan, I'd be tempted to quit my job. I'm dead serious about that. Thus, when I watch, I watch as a fan but certainly an objective one. As I said with my Yankee example, I am not the type of fan to give something the benefit of the doubt when it doesn't deserve it and I certainly won't defend something that doesn't deserve defense. Case and point, I will not defend Kevin Brown punching a wall and being a disgrace to the Yankees. I will not defend AJ Burnett's poor performance last year. I can't do it. If something is bad, you see that and you admit that. If a Red Sox fan said "hey, AJ sucked last year", I wouldn't defend him just because it was a Sawx fan yelling at me. I'd agree but hope he proves them wrong next year.

3) I get that you often see hypocrisy in the way some fans view pro wrestling. I see it too. That much we can agree on. However, it's not the case with everyone and it does seem that many that share a negative opinion on TNA get labeled in this hypocrisy despite no evidence proving so. That's not to say that some aren't guilty of it, but because a few people that probably aren't the ones in the TNA LD have made comments about a WWE angle or character or story that somehow seems like the antithesis of what is being debated in TNA's programming, the answer is to counterpoint with the WWE hypocrisy argument. The problem there, simply put, is that ou are working on the assumption that this person automatically buys into the WWE equivalent as you see it, and that may or may not be true. More often than not, it's probably not true.

4) When I made that list before, I made a list of those that have a positive outlook on TNA and those that I have interacted with from time to time on the subject. You took it as a negative, but I meant it in no such way. It is you guys that are steadfast behind the TNA program and I commend you for it. I understand that some are also WWE fans and you know what, power to them. You can like 1 wrestling promotion, you can like 2, 3, 4, whatever. My feeling is that you can like whatever you want and everyone's opinion is valid. I'm a little confused as to why you tried to place on me the fact that I don't think this way. All I'm saying is that I have seen people on both sides praise one and chastise the other, almost as if they are being paid by a company to promote it and downplay the other. The ones who actually hurt here, and this is all my opinion of course, are those who actually watch and like both major US companies. It's almost seen as blasphemy and rarely accepted. I'm saying to accept it, as I can accept those who watch one or the other as well as those who watch both. What I don't condone, and I don't on either side, is that watching the program you have concluded is bad is somehow terrible behavior and that people need to be reprimanded for it. This happens on both ends, so don't take that as a shot. It's just life. I've definitely heard that if you watch WWE or TNA, then you are an idiot. The problem exists on both sides.

5) I agree that if someone calls you that idiot, you don't need to respect that. We are in agreement on that. However, if someone asks you what you liked about a particular show, I suggest giving specific examples and presenting it in a positive light, rather than attacking the person and saying you don't need to answer to them. You catch more bees with honey than vinegar.

My conclusion is that you need to read what I say more carefully. I am steadfast behind the belief that all wrestling fans are entitled to their own opinions as to what they can like or dislike. That said, we should respect everyone who deserves respect for their different opinions. These forums exist so we can argue in that regard. Still, it does come off many times, and maybe I'm wrong in thinking this, that many feel you can only be a fan of one company or the other. I'm merely suggesting that you CAN be a fan of only TNA, you CAN be a fan of only WWE, and you CAN be a fan of both. All, with good reason, can and should be accepted as valid. That's all I'm saying. As far as new fans and the LDs, we'll see if there's an improvement moving forward. If the show is better next week, I'm sure you will see a much more positive environment.