The Triple H Thread

[Poop Master Flex]

Although I agree HHH has WAY too much power backstage at the end of the day you can only blame Vince for the downturn of the WWE . Just because HHH is his "son-in-law" doesn't mean he has to put him over (or even listen to him). To be honest part of me thinks they kept the title on HHH so the McMahon's would have a place on RAW (even though they've had their place for the last decade). It's not Hunters fault because Vince can take away that power any time he feels (He does have the Grapefruits to do it AFTERALL). It's his Company and at the end of the day it's his fault (He hired the wrestlers, writers, commentators, everything. And for what I hear he has his a big influence in every aspect of the business). Until Vince Realizes that what they are doing is wrong (in my opinion Anyways) it will be the HHH show because the only reason hes at the top is because the boss wants him to be.

 

[WunNightStan619]

Call me an Orton "fanboy" if u want, but imma call em like i see it. That shit was wrong last night. Wrestlemania was a disaster period only to be topped off by the worst main event in wrestlemania history. Has far as u saying that HHH has a history behind him, that does not even make sense. First off, HHH doesnt have that much more to look foward to cuz he's done all he can do in the bizness and then some. Orton is the one who is just begining to reach his prime. He's not even 30years old yet. LAst night should have been the passing of the torch. But instead they use it as another oppertunity to build HHH. RAndy will get other oppurtunities in the future, but he wud have been cemented as a main eventer had he beaten HHH. No interference from legacy, none from the McMahons, just HHH dominating wunce again....straight up selfish if u ask me.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

The man you need to direct your energy towards is not Triple H. It's Vince McMahon. Vince is the bottom line guy in charge of WWE operations. Not Triple H. And given how hands on Vince likes to be, I put the blame 100% on him for last night. Not Triple H.

It is clear over the past few weeks given the reports on Vince's behavior backstage, that the man has lost his touch, and needs to be removed from the Creative process immediately. Canceling Creative meetings for Mania at the last second, then yelling at Michael Hayes because he isn't focusing enough on Mania (despite Hayes trying to produce a good show leading up to Mania, so people will want to actually buy it), plus changing the matches around to what we saw last night, when we would have originally had Cena vs Orton and Triple H vs Edge.

Vince McMahon himself, is the one that needs to be the brunt of your anger with what transpired last night. Not Triple H. And he needs to step down from his Creative Duties as absolutely as soon as possible, for the good of his own company. It's pretty clear he is becoming nothing more than a cranky old man, who is only hurting his own company more so than helping it.

 

[thelcon21]

The man you need to direct your energy towards is not Triple H. It's Vince McMahon. Vince is the bottom line guy in charge of WWE operations. Not Triple H. And given how hands on Vince likes to be, I put the blame 100% on him for last night. Not Triple H.

It is clear over the past few weeks given the reports on Vince's behavior backstage, that the man has lost his touch, and needs to be removed from the Creative process immediately. Canceling Creative meetings for Mania at the last second, then yelling at Michael Hayes because he isn't focusing enough on Mania (despite Hayes trying to produce a good show leading up to Mania, so people will want to actually buy it), plus changing the matches around to what we saw last night, when we would have originally had Cena vs Orton and Triple H vs Edge.

Vince McMahon himself, is the one that needs to be the brunt of your anger with what transpired last night. Not Triple H. And he needs to step down from his Creative Duties as absolutely as soon as possible, for the good of his own company. It's pretty clear he is becoming nothing more than a cranky old man, who is only hurting his own company more so than helping it.

Yea who in the company is going to move Vince McMahon off the creative team? That is never going to happen. I know Stephanie works with the creative team and is probably the one person that Vince would listen too about changing things up a little. I don't think Shane really works on the day to day business but don't quote me on that. Linda is more in charge on the business side.

Everyone is right though it is Vince's company and no matter who is on creative he has the final say. If he doesn't want to change things up expect Wrestlemania 26 to be more of the same with John Cena and Triple H walking out as champions again. There is only so many combination of matches they can use before we start seeing the same thing over and over again like this year.

 

[jmt225]

I knew this was coming. HHH wins his first match at WM since 200 fucking 3 and he gets blasted for it. Tell me, what logic was there in Orton winning last night? There was never any way that HHH was going to lose on DQ or Count Out, not in the main event of WM. The ending was actually brilliant. It opens some doors to continue the program which is what was needed.

The biggest issue I had with this match was no Priceless or McMahons. Was that HHH's doing? Not that i know of. Seeing as how Vince was a vital part of the storyline, I'm assuming he had final say over it, as he does with all shows especially his baby. To put all of the blame on HHH is ridiculous. Yes, the match was bad. Was HHH wrestling his clone? I could have sworn it was two people having a bad match out there.

Lol, what the fuck, KB? In just your Wrestlemania thread last night you had the following to say:

The ending was just a total letdown. Fuck a good pace. This was a complete waste of time and had nothing good to offer at all. The ending is HHH’s revenge for his recent losses. Terrible way to close it out, absolutely terrible. Never in my life have I seen someone with a bigger ego. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever here for HHH to go over. Not a damn one. Orton was pushed to the fucking moon recently and he gets nothing for it? Likely he’ll get the belt at Backlash or something, but this was a waste. Any credibility he has is killed. That was awful and I don’t want to see even the letter that comes after G for a long, long time. Horrible.

Now, you all of a sudden have a change of heart? I'm disappointed in you, man.

Anyway, the fact is that Triple H is a fucking cunt, plain and simple. The guy sucks ass in the ring, and has since 2002. All he's doing is adding on to the fucking carnage the ********er has been causing since 200fucking2. In fact, let's just look at what he's ‘accomplished’ in the past SEVEN years.

He returns from injury in 2002 to feud with Jericho about a bulldog being ran over. It ends with him burying Jericho in the main event at ’Mania and Jericho doesn’t do jack shit after until 2008. Fast forward some and he has a great feud against Michaels up until Armageddon (in the meantime also burying RVD & Kane), and then goes on to have some of the worst matches in the history of pro wrestling against Scott Steiner. Then buries Booker T. Then has a horrible feud with Nash. Buries Goldberg in yet another shit feud. Feuds with Michaels again, where their matches aren’t anywhere near as good as the ones in 2002. Puts Benoit over. Buries Eugene. Buries Orton. Puts over a worthless hack in Batista. Goes away for a while. Returns and has a good feud against Flair (even though Flair didn’t get any of the mic time). Buries Cena on the mic for a month before putting him over at ’Mania. DX Reunion, which ends up being some of the worst shit WWE has ever produced. Gets hurt again because of the roids he’s abused over the years. Returns and buries Booker T again. Dominates No Mercy before Orton gets a cheap victory. Feuds with Orton and buries him again. Moves to Smackdown. Feuds with Edge, Khali, and Jeff Hardy and buries all of them (also defeating Cena on a pay-per-view match in the process, to make up for his previous loss). And then comes back to Raw just to bury Randy Orton, for the third fucking time. And throughout all this, he is main eventing EVERY single Wrestlemania where he's not injured, and performing shitfest after shitfest with the exception of the triple threat against Benoit and Michaels (in which the only decent thing he did in the entire match was tap; Benoit and Michaels did all the work in that one) and against Cena, in which the crowd was the main factor in that being so entertaining and since Cena is just incredible at getting people into his match, unlike his bitch opponent that night.

I dare anyone to try and justify that nonsense. HHH is a fucking cunt, and last night was just further proof of it. If you defend him, you're just a blind fucking fan of his, and nothing more. And it's a shame that people like you HHH fans will, when it's all said done, continue to kiss his ass and buy into the WWE propaganda that is about to come within the next ten years of him being the greatest ever. Pathetic, just like HHH's career. Fuck him.

 

[LiberalKiller]

Lol, what the fuck, KB? In just your Wrestlemania thread last night you had the following to say:



Now, you all of a sudden have a change of heart? I'm disappointed in you, man.

Anyway, the fact is that Triple H is a fucking cunt, plain and simple. The guy sucks ass in the ring, and has since 2002. All he's doing is adding on to the fucking carnage the ********er has been causing since 200fucking2. In fact, let's just look at what he's ‘accomplished’ in the past SEVEN years.

He returns from injury in 2002 to feud with Jericho about a bulldog being ran over. It ends with him burying Jericho in the main event at ’Mania and Jericho doesn’t do jack shit after until 2008. Fast forward some and he has a great feud against Michaels up until Armageddon (in the meantime also burying RVD & Kane), and then goes on to have some of the worst matches in the history of pro wrestling against Scott Steiner. Then buries Booker T. Then has a horrible feud with Nash. Buries Goldberg in yet another shit feud. Feuds with Michaels again, where their matches aren’t anywhere near as good as the ones in 2002. Puts Benoit over. Buries Eugene. Buries Orton. Puts over a worthless hack in Batista. Goes away for a while. Returns and has a good feud against Flair (even though Flair didn’t get any of the mic time). Buries Cena on the mic for a month before putting him over at ’Mania. DX Reunion, which ends up being some of the worst shit WWE has ever produced. Gets hurt again because of the roids he’s abused over the years. Returns and buries Booker T again. Dominates No Mercy before Orton gets a cheap victory. Feuds with Orton and buries him again. Moves to Smackdown. Feuds with Edge, Khali, and Jeff Hardy and buries all of them (also defeating Cena on a pay-per-view match in the process, to make up for his previous loss). And then comes back to Raw just to bury Randy Orton, for the third fucking time. And throughout all this, he is main eventing EVERY single Wrestlemania where he's not injured, and performing shitfest after shitfest with the exception of the triple threat against Benoit and Michaels (in which the only decent thing he did in the entire match was tap; Benoit and Michaels did all the work in that one) and against Cena, in which the crowd was the main factor in that being so entertaining and since Cena is just incredible at getting people into his match, unlike his bitch opponent that night.

I dare anyone to try and justify that nonsense. HHH is a fucking cunt, and last night was just further proof of it. If you defend him, you're just a blind fucking fan of his, and nothing more. And it's a shame that people like you HHH fans will, when it's all said done, continue to kiss his ass and buy into the WWE propaganda that is about to come within the next ten years of him being the greatest ever. Pathetic, just like HHH's career. Fuck him.

Props to you man, ditto on that. HHH is a fuckin cancer to the company...For those who disagree, go fuck yourselves. Case in point.......did you see the crowd to the HHH/Orton match? The fans were fucking booing.....the crowd was dead, I could hear conversations in the fuckin crowd! HHH and Super Cena CANT fuckin sell! Don't get me started on Super Cena....the crowd was fuckin dead in that match....when Cena won, he got an average pop, nothing earth shattering. Your biggest face gets a average pop?! Wake up Vince! Cena CANT sell (in movies and wrestling) ether....I saw more RKO shirts in the crowd, over the past month then Cena and HHH. As ECW fans would say: Same ol' Shit from WWE! This was THE worst PPV I have ever seen, and it was Wrestlemania for christ sakes! WWE wonders why the ratings are tanking!

 

[SquareSix]

The only way that the WWE can salvage this feud is to have Orton win at the next big PPV. If they have Orton get the win and/or title at Backlash that will completely destroy Orton - his credibility, his heat, everything up to that point will have been for nothing. HHH has passed his prime in the ring, disagree if you want, but he hasn't been good in the ring for a while now. I consider myself a fan of HHH, but the facts are the facts. No, he hasn't won at a WM in a while, but that's because we've seen it so many times already. No one cares if he wins (especially if it's for a title) at Wrestlemania or anywhere for that matter. Orton deserved to get the win last night. I realize that people say he will have plenty of time for getting Wrestlemania moments in the future. To those people I say that may be true, but HHH has had Wrestlemania moment after Wrestlemania moment. Orton will have his time, but HHH has had his already. It's time that he lets go.

Pass the torch already. Sure, if the feud is continued as I fully expect it to be, it should draw decently (not great, but decently) and I will be interested in it. But I think it would've been just as good for Orton to get the win last night. There are so many people that have the talent to get pushed into the main event now. Having Orton win would've opened up possible feuds with younger, talented guys like Morrison and MVP. Watching the same guys win the WWE & World title over and over gets stale. I think that more people should go the route of Michaels and Undertaker. They draw huge anywhere you put them, without a title. At this point in his career, HHH doesn't need another title win, although I wouldn't be suprised to see him pass up Flair's number of title reigns before he retires just because he can. It's time to start giving this young talent runs with the main titles. Give them the right push, the right story, and WWE I would just about guarantee that you could draw crowds and viewers just a large as the ones you have now without HHH being the main guy all the time.

Before anyone brings it up, CM Punk winning another MITB match and the resulting inevitable feud for either the WWE or World title does not count in my opinion. He was given a chance and people didn't care. They have been pushing him down our throats to further the PG rating. CM Punk's straight edge lifestyle makes him a great role model for kids, I get it, but he just seems to lack that "it" factor that makes a great champion.

Back to the main point, they should give more of this young talent a chance. I think that Morrison has the potential to be the next Shawn Michaels given the right opportunity (and some more work on his mic skills). There is only one HBK, but Morrison shows signs of being a great deal like Michaels in the future. MVP is hugely over with the crowd and has a ton of talent. Rhodes and especially Dibiase could be great one day. But, the only way that any of those guys are going to be given the chance to prove themselves is going to be found after HHH lets go of his grip on the title and main event. There is nothing wrong with not being champ HHH, Shawn can tell you all about it. Right now, any feud for the title is going to be with HHH and that means that only one or two young guys can fight with him for the title at a time. At least if it's Orton they feud with, it will be two young guys battling- it will be something new and fresh.

 

[bluejt16]

i couldn't be arsed reading anything other than the first post so im going to say what i think, they only reason HHH won last night is because cena won, the couldn't have to champs on the same show, yes the draft is coming up and EVERYONE knows HHH is going to raw and cena is going to smackdown, with them changes taking place, randy will win the title at backlash and will hold onto the title till summerslam where i expect batista to return.

 

[JJYanks121]

So let me get this straight. Ther were a lot of bad matches on the card, lots of obvious finishes, but let's attack HHH. Surprise surprise on this board. The lack of surprise to none of you thinking logically is the bigger surprise though.

Over the past year, regardless of what you or I think, the WWE has gone to a PG rating. Regardless of provocation, that means that PPVs are not geared towards us adult fans, but towards children. As annoying as we find faces sometimes, they are important as they give kids something to cheer for. Now let's apply that to the main event.

Triple H, a man defending his family, mainly his wife, is taking on a man who ruthlessly, and with help, took out his opponent's father-in-law, brother-in-law, and wife, the last of which, he performed acts of violence and sexuality (albeit non-graphic, of course) against a woman. Keep in mind hitting women in real life gets your ass tossed in jail, but on the show, he can do it, but HHH can go to jail for breaking and entering, while Orton basically assults the cops at the end and gets nothing. Essentially though, all of the puts HHH, as big as he is, in a position of weakness, at least in terms of mind games, but he, like any good face, continued to fight back. Now, in the main event of Wrestlemania, you expect a madman willing to abuse women and take out whoever he wants to go over on the biggest stage???? What would that say about the company? The answer is, that the "face" of the company, the guy who won in the main event is abusive, horrible excuse for a human being (kayfabe of course). Now I know a lot of you like him, but is that honestly the message the WWE should be sending??

I want to specify here that I am a wrestling fan, and that at this juncture, I'm not sure I have a favorite wrestler. I say this so as not to get accused of being a "mark" for HHH. However, it's despicable that anyone on this forum has the audacity at any point to question HHH's place in the company and why he has it. To the guy who said that HHH was given the compliment by Steamboat because he's an agent and needs to kiss ass is ridiculous. He said it because he meant it and perhaps to send a message to some of the young wrestlers. You see, HHH made it in this business by being a pain in the ass (in a good way). Any older wrestler, sans the awful Ultimate Warrior, will testify to the fact that young Paul was in their ears all the time, picking their brains and learning everything he could to get better. That IS how you succeed in anything. Case and point, the dude wanted to succeed and did so by working his ass off year after year. I dare ANY of you to give me 3 guys on the roster that work harder that Hunter. If you want to hate on anyone for their position, hate Orton. Kid could have, and probably should have, been fired years ago for being like Teddy Hart, but because he's the son of Cowboy Bob, and because people like HHH saw something in him, enough to put him in Evolution, he's gotten that chance. Of course, since he won that title in 04, he basically hasn't improved. I know I will get arguments on that, but his mic skills are still pretty weak, his ring skills are good but lacking quality heel psychology, and I truly dont' think he gets how to be a heel properly.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Bottom line, there were worse outcomes on the card than HHH going over. The WWE is PG and will be for the time being, get over it, get off your high horses, and don't think an abusive, boring wrestler should EVER win the main event at Wrestlemania.

 

[TheGreenEagle]

While I do agree Orton did need to win the title it really wouldn't have gotten legacy over considering Legacy is focused on Orton and not the group. The problem with that match was not Triple H but that the hype going into the match was greater and more compelling to watch and nastier and whatever words you want to use to describe it better than the actually match. When the stuff going into the match is more violent then the match itself then you already failed. That match should have at least been an I Quit or a Last Man Standing if not Hell In a Cell considering the elements surrounding it. Not to mention they had to top Shawn Michaels and the Undertaker.

If this was still Evolution era Triple H then I would say yes. At that time they shoved Triple H down our throat and it was getting to the point were had it continued for another two or three years, TNA would be the most watch show on TV right now.
Don't say there weren't wrestlers in wwe that couldn't carry the title or the show. Nash, Steiner, Booker T, could have! But because they were WCW there was a problem. Hell jericho could have even done it. Do you know There was a period in WWE that Triple H was World Champion for like two years and only lost to Shawn Michaels his best friend and Goldberg (cuz it was in his contract and his run was short and who pinned Goldberg for the title....umm triple h). RVD was supposed to win the title at Unforgiven in 2002, but Triple H didn't want to lose.
Have you even seen wrestling since Evolution died. Triple H has toned down on the security blanket known as the World Title/WWE title for a long time. Before this years WM when was the last time Triple H has either won or retained a World Title at a Wrestlemania...go look it up you'd be surprised.

 

[MisterRob]

Anyway, the fact is that Triple H is a fucking cunt, plain and simple. The guy sucks ass in the ring, and has since 2002. All he's doing is adding on to the fucking carnage the ********er has been causing since 200fucking2. In fact, let's just look at what he's ‘accomplished’ in the past SEVEN years.

He returns from injury in 2002 to feud with Jericho about a bulldog being ran over. It ends with him burying Jericho in the main event at ’Mania and Jericho doesn’t do jack shit after until 2008. Fast forward some and he has a great feud against Michaels up until Armageddon (in the meantime also burying RVD & Kane), and then goes on to have some of the worst matches in the history of pro wrestling against Scott Steiner. Then buries Booker T. Then has a horrible feud with Nash. Buries Goldberg in yet another shit feud. Feuds with Michaels again, where their matches aren’t anywhere near as good as the ones in 2002. Puts Benoit over. Buries Eugene. Buries Orton. Puts over a worthless hack in Batista. Goes away for a while. Returns and has a good feud against Flair (even though Flair didn’t get any of the mic time). Buries Cena on the mic for a month before putting him over at ’Mania. DX Reunion, which ends up being some of the worst shit WWE has ever produced. Gets hurt again because of the roids he’s abused over the years. Returns and buries Booker T again. Dominates No Mercy before Orton gets a cheap victory. Feuds with Orton and buries him again. Moves to Smackdown. Feuds with Edge, Khali, and Jeff Hardy and buries all of them (also defeating Cena on a pay-per-view match in the process, to make up for his previous loss). And then comes back to Raw just to bury Randy Orton, for the third fucking time. And throughout all this, he is main eventing EVERY single Wrestlemania where he's not injured, and performing shitfest after shitfest with the exception of the triple threat against Benoit and Michaels (in which the only decent thing he did in the entire match was tap; Benoit and Michaels did all the work in that one) and against Cena, in which the crowd was the main factor in that being so entertaining and since Cena is just incredible at getting people into his match, unlike his bitch opponent that night.

I dare anyone to try and justify that nonsense. HHH is a fucking cunt, and last night was just further proof of it. If you defend him, you're just a blind fucking fan of his, and nothing more. And it's a shame that people like you HHH fans will, when it's all said done, continue to kiss his ass and buy into the WWE propaganda that is about to come within the next ten years of him being the greatest ever. Pathetic, just like HHH's career. Fuck him.

This is exactly what's wrong with all the internet marks who think they're actually the majority of wrestling fans when in fact they're nothing but a small minority. You think the majority of people who paid to sit in the arena and watch WrestleMania or paid 60 freaking dollars for WrestleMania on ppv wanted to see the show end with the super heel Randy Orton winning and becoming the champion and the good guy unable to gain revenge for his family and losing? You're all a little naive if you are. The build up to this match was phenomenal and it did sell buyrates and people did want to see this match going in, and its because they wanted to see Triple H and the McMahons finally get their revenge. Randy Orton injured Vince McMahon, then injured Shane McMahon, then assaulted Stephanie McMahon and played his heel part to perfection. The entire feud was not built for Orton to do dispicable acts, do unthinkable harm to these people, only to win in the end and no payoff to be made by the FACE. This was WrestleMania where all feud payoffs are suppose to take place. Anyone who didn't see Triple H winning, or thinks he shouldn't have won, is so entirely short sighted and not seeing the entire purpose of the feud and WrestleMania itself. You don't end the biggest ppv of the year with the heel winning and fans going home feeling disappointed that Evil won in the end. Most fans aren't internet smarks. Whether I would've liked to see Orton win or not isn't the point, the common sense outcome happened and likely it should've happened.

I thought the match was flat, I thought the outcome was anti climactic, but not because Triple H won but because of how he won. There was no Legacy interfering, there was no McMahon's helping to get revenge, and there was no dramatic finish with the McMahon family all celebrating together as there should have been. That would've been a much better ending then what happened, but Orton winning was not a feasible ending for the biggest ppv of the year with the build up that this feud had. It was personal, it had been built up entirely for the hero to get the victory and get revenge finally. That's what happened.

Now the ending has left an option for Orton to play the heel and weasle his way into another match, and I wouldn't be surprised if tonight on RAW Orton got a rematch and won the championship. If anything it should happen tonight on RAW after the big feel good payoff that should've happened lastnight at WrestleMania. People bitching about Triple H's "power" and moaning about him winning at WrestleMania are ignoring the common sense of the feud and its build up, which is just silly. Stop the Triple H hate, there would've been just as much backlash if Orton had won.. then people would be complaining about how WrestleMania ended with the heels on top which would've been anti climactic as well.

 

[DD84]

Oh, yes. He has always had too much power. That is why he didn't get great pop last night when he retained the belt. He is great and all, but it is ridiculous. He almost always has the belt, except for like 2006, when he came back from injury and then reformed DX. He is too power crazy and yesterday was a perfect example of it. I thought it calmed down, but it didn't. The only positive I every took from him is that he puts over guys at WrestleMania such as Beniot, Batista and Cena, why couldn't he have done it yesterday for someone he helped come up? This is the kind of things that make people hate him.

 

[Spjadoe05]

i think i'll join this little debate. tho i'm upset when people get proven wrong and stop replying. i say keep it going. lol.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Bottom line, there were worse outcomes on the card than HHH going over. The WWE is PG and will be for the time being, get over it, get off your high horses, and don't think an abusive, boring wrestler should EVER win the main event at Wrestlemania.

lol the funny thing about that is that is exactly what happened. HHH is one of THE most boring wrestlers imho. and not to mention kudos to the new PG WWE for having him bash someones face in with a sledgehammer. that sends a great message to the kids. i think some of u guys use the WWE going to PG as a crutch to defend them when they do something that some "fanboys" as u call them don't agree with.

as far as the whole hhh ruining the WWE with his power i disagree. regardless of what he does when he is in the main picture it is usually on one show. WWE has two more shows so hhh can't be blamed solely. that being said yes i think hhh sucks. lol. i mean this is just my opinion.

i have seen alot of posts in this thread that had me scratching my head. one person said that obviously hhh isn't on steriods because he hasn't been suspended yet. really? that person needs to wake up politics exist in any and every business and hhh is one of the best and most well know when it comes to that. also if u notice he is rarely injured but when he is it's a quad injury (common side effect of steriod abuse.) if u notice everytime he comes back from injury he is smaller. also notice how when the WWE started cracking down on them seriously he has gotten smaller.

someone else said something like hhh's being married to stephanie has nothing to do with ANY of his success. that is speculation cause none of us know honestly. but his reason behind this is because other people have had success. really? come on now some people with low/no IQ might accept this but that doesn't mean anything. i honestly think everyone else u used for that argument are better wrestlers than he is.

the thing u can never take away from hhh is that he is a student of the game. also he has the desire for the business. he USED to be the best or one of that the WWE had. now i believe he is slow and boring.

 

[jellmoo]

Good gravy... HHH wins a frickin match at Mania, which he oddly enough, does not always do, and IWC is rabid. Claims of abusing backstage power, having the spot only because he's married Steph, of holding talent back come out of the woodwork.

HHH won because as far as the storyline is concerned, he should have won. The good guy overcame the bad guy, and got vengeance for what happened to his family. It was all about the story, not about politics or who should go over.

But no, the smarks come out and go on and on about how HHH must have used his influence to hold the amazing Randy Orton back. Everything that ever happens that the IWC does not like is quite obviously Hunter's fault.

Fans don't react, therefore it means Orton should have gone over! It had nothing at all to do with the fact that it wasn't a great match (for which both Orton and Trips share the blame with the bookers and agents), or that it came after Micheals/Taker which was so good that it left the crowd emtionally exhausted. No, it's obviously the crowd displaying the fact that Randy "The Best Thing Since Sliced Bread" Orton did not win.

Guys, seriously, not everything is a conspiracy. Not everything is politics. I know that Randy Orton is the current IWC man crush, but jeez, relax a bit. Watch and enjoy the show, the action and the storylines. Don't freak out when the storylines don't match up to what you want.

 

[DhA]

The crowd was dead because HHH winning is the absoulte status quo, and him as a face isn't likeable. Faces tend to get support because they "do the right thing" (Hogan, Hart, Cena), are "relatable" (Austin, boyhood dream HBK), funny (The Rock, Y2J) or exude that energetic, ready to go factor (Ultimate Warrior, Batista). HHH isn't a "good guy" as he constantly attacks people with sledgehammers, he isn't relatable as he's booked as Conan the "cool as fuck" Barbarian on Steroids and he's not funny to many people. He isn't energetic as he works at a slow pace even when he's the face. He's just...there. Definition of bland.

 

[Mortuus]

triple h should have won? randy orton should have won?, either way the match should have been a lot better. And to aswer the original question-YES, triple h's power is hurting the wwe, it's easy to see. But thats my personal opinion.

 

[bulldog76]

Both men are to blame for that match being so disappointing. I thought it had a really cool beginning but never picked that energy back up. Triple H is a ring general and has done better with less. Follow one attack with another. The finish was good but getting to that finish was horrible. There was no climax. No point where I thought Orton had this thing won.

It was WM 25. A heel going over on the last match of the biggest PPV of the year? I understand putting Triple H in the win. Let the fans go home happy. Don't worry about criticism from a bunch of fans who will pay the $55 even though they "know the card is going to suck."

Orton seems so slow in the ring. I know he is trying to be "calculating" but seriously. Follow one attack with another.

Orton losing makes this thing far from over. He still wants to ruin Triple H's life. And yes, these two are capable of putting on a much better show. I know this because I saw a house show match of these two that was pretty solid back when Orton first won the title.

Is Triple H's power hurting the company? He really doesn't have any. He still conceeds to Vince. There have been reports on different things that Triple H wishes they would do but Vince opts otherwise. Does he have influence? Yes. But he did long before now, before Steph, and so do many other backstage performers.

 

[pepentorresHHH]

im a big HHH fan but last night was one of the worst wrestlemania ME ever... i mean the start was cool and the end was too but the almost 15 minutes in between was boring.
as far as the result , we all saw the hhh victory coming since the match was announced.
HHH hasnt won at wrestlemania since 03 against booker t and come he HAS put a lot of people over since then, but last night simply wasnt a feel good moment or a good match.
as far as if triple h 's power is hurting the wwe i would say maybe.... i mean he obviously has some pull backstage like any other maint eventer since hulk hogan to stone cold but come on... i read some post that call him the cancer of the wwe and that is just wrong.. i mean i also wanted randy to go over last night but he lost.... deal with it.... i knew it would happen... but this opens the doors to a lot of more on one of the most personal rilvaries in recent years.
as for the future this two can put solid matches, but only if they follow randys pace, since the quad injury hhh is slower and that is a given but he still is one of the 3 best wrestler in the company for a reason....
so no triple h s power doesnt hurt the wwe and to the IWC.... relax a little, this match isnt the ending of this rilvary which we ll see randy orton going on top at the end in maybe a HIAC......

 

[thelcon21]

Now that it was announced tonight on Raw that Randy Orton, Ted Dibiase and Cody Rhodes will take on Triple H, Shane McMahon and Batista for the WWE title in a 6 man tag match does this change anyones opinion on this angle and on Triple H?

He won't even drop the belt to Orton one on one at Backlash. On a positive note though if Triple H does decide to drop the belt to Orton in this match it will at least make Legacy look good that they're beating wrestlers on the level of Triple H and Batista.

I'm hoping that Orton finally wins the title in this match and takes on Triple H at Judgement Day in Hell in the Cell and Orton finally goes over. If not all of this was a waste of our time.

 

[GameOver]

The man you need to direct your energy towards is not Triple H. It's Vince McMahon. Vince is the bottom line guy in charge of WWE operations. Not Triple H. And given how hands on Vince likes to be, I put the blame 100% on him for last night. Not Triple H.

It is clear over the past few weeks given the reports on Vince's behavior backstage, that the man has lost his touch, and needs to be removed from the Creative process immediately. Canceling Creative meetings for Mania at the last second, then yelling at Michael Hayes because he isn't focusing enough on Mania (despite Hayes trying to produce a good show leading up to Mania, so people will want to actually buy it), plus changing the matches around to what we saw last night, when we would have originally had Cena vs Orton and Triple H vs Edge.

Vince McMahon himself, is the one that needs to be the brunt of your anger with what transpired last night. Not Triple H. And he needs to step down from his Creative Duties as absolutely as soon as possible, for the good of his own company. It's pretty clear he is becoming nothing more than a cranky old man, who is only hurting his own company more so than helping it.

It's True It's Damn True

sure Triple H has some say in the matter but bottom line If Vince McMahon doesn't like it he damn sure aint gonna let it happen. And he's not shy about voicing his displeasure as has been reported countless times.

He chews out his own daughter over decisions he doesn't like and took her from an on screen role over creative differences for god sakes. A role i might add she was doing a damn good job at, smackdown rocked when she was GM

Get over it Triple H doesn't run the show period, anymore than Hogan ran the show for the first 9 yrs WWF went mainstream. Does he have creative control over his career? no doubt, but so did Auistin, The Rock, Hogan, HBK, Taker. they all earnt the right to have some say by busting there asses and proving they can carry the show

ok lets move to something else. If Triple H was the big power hungry egomaniac how come this yr is the first WrestleMania he has one in near to 6yrs. and why doe he ever lose the title?

He puts butts on seats and sells merchandise. MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!

When someone else can fill that role they get there spot. Cena for 1.
Cena has gotten over Triple H 9/10 times

Jeff Hardy got over him several times which pushed him to some semblance of superstardom,

Shelton Benjamin was pushed beyond his limits and then blew it big time
even Edge a guy Triple H apparently hates and refused to work with cause he has long blonde hair, has beaten him numerous times which has only amplified there careers,

and Batista and Orton might never have amounted to anything if they didn't start off as part of Evolution

does that sound like someone who has complete control? and refuses to allow anyone else to have spotlight??

 

[Spjadoe05]

ok the biggest problem with the IWC is that we assume people have to be for or against someone. everything isn't just yes or no. HHH is one of the greatest ENTERTAINERS in WWE/F history plain and simple. that pretty much can't be disputed, however he is not as great a worker as he was earlier in his career. Also for those that are using this as examples of HHH holding people down it's a bad choice. HHH is one of the main reasons that Randy is even in this situation. If it werent for evolution i don't think randy would be this successful yet. one top of that HHH is the one who took randy under his wing and suggested that he change his behavior. Also HHH has been in situations that advanced randy. One being last year when the title was awarded to randy/won by HHH/then won back by randy. another was last wrestlemania. And i know randy didn't pin HHH but someone had to lose and if randy would have pinned HHH we would have had 20 threads about how John Cena never loses a match. lol. that being said...

I know this because I saw a house show match of these two that was pretty solid back when Orton first won the title.

That was five years ago IMO HHH was a much better worker back then

Is Triple H's power hurting the company? He really doesn't have any. He still conceeds to Vince.

So by that rationale you are saying that Linda, Shane, Steph, or anyone else really doesn't have any. They still concede to Vince.

He won't even drop the belt to Orton one on one at Backlash. On a positive note though if Triple H does decide to drop the belt to Orton in this match it will at least make Legacy look good that they're beating wrestlers on the level of Triple H and Batista.

I don't think it needs to be a one on one. Alot of people are bashing HHH due to this decision but first who is to say that Randy won't pin HHH in this match. second either way i'm sure if Randy wins at backlash HHH will invoke his rematch clause at some point if Randy retains that would mean he went over HHH one on one.

He chews out his own daughter over decisions he doesn't like and took her from an on screen role over creative differences for god sakes. A role i might add she was doing a damn good job at, smackdown rocked when she was GM

Do you have proof of this or are you just fabricating things? I am not 100% sure but i seem to recall steph having a baby 9 or so months after she stopped as GM of smackdown meaning she was "taken off" due to the pregnancy. I could be wrong on this.

ok lets move to something else. If Triple H was the big power hungry egomaniac how come this yr is the first WrestleMania he has one in near to 6yrs.

HHH, like HBK, does not need to win at wrestlemania. He is a legitimate superstar and will remain so. Like someone mentioned earlier i think he was injured two of those years. but since you want to do research look up his win % for thpse six years.

and why doe he ever lose the title?

Are you serious? a couple reasons.
1. a sammartino like reign wouldn't work with todays audience
2. "in order to be the man, WHOOO, you have to beat the man
3. sometimes chasing the title is a bigger position than being champ

He puts butts on seats and sells merchandise. MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!

No argument here like i said earlier he is one of the greatest ENTERTAINERS in WWE/F history. that includes making the company tons and tons of money

When someone else can fill that role they get there spot. Cena for 1.
Cena has gotten over Triple H 9/10 times

yes he goes over HHH. the WWE is a business. HHH may have made more money for them overall but since cena hit his prime he makes more money for the WWE than anyone during the same time period.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

Also HHH has been in situations that advanced randy. One being last year when the title was awarded to randy/won by HHH/then won back by randy. another was last wrestlemania. And i know randy didn't pin HHH but someone had to lose and if randy would have pinned HHH we would have had 20 threads about how John Cena never loses a match. lol. that being said...

What annoys me about that stuff is that he doesn't actually put Orton over. For instance, that No Mercy ppv where Orton won the title. Orton first was GIVEN the title, which isn't admirable. Then, HHH beat him in a few minutes. Is that putting him over? HHH then faces Umaga, and then loses to Orton in a Last Man Standing match, where it wasn't even Orton dominating the whole time. So that means when they're fresh, HHH can beat Orton. And then HHH can beat Umaga. And then, even after that, HHH is STILL better than Orton enough that he can almost win a Last Man Standing match? That's not putting Orton over. That's making HHH look like a god with Orton just getting to reap the benefits of a situation where HHH is overpowered...barely.

Think of it this way. You're reading a Superman comic and he single-handedly defeats every villain he has. Then, another guy comes up to the exhausted Superman and they fight. Superman almost beats him, and the thug gets one good shot in and knocks him out. Does that mean the thug looked really strong against Superman? No. It puts Superman over as being someone who can take all that punishment and then only slightly lose. If their goal was to make Orton be champ at the end of No Mercy and look like a real strong champion, then HHH shouldn't have pinned him at all. They should've made it a triple threat between Orton, HHH, and Umaga, and had Orton pin one of them to win it. Or they could've had Orton against someone else, just one match, and he beats that person. Not that he loses it in 20 minutes and then is just barely able to defeat a guy who also just beat one of the big bad monsters.

I don't think it needs to be a one on one. Alot of people are bashing HHH due to this decision but first who is to say that Randy won't pin HHH in this match. second either way i'm sure if Randy wins at backlash HHH will invoke his rematch clause at some point if Randy retains that would mean he went over HHH one on one.

Its not set in stone that Orton won't pin HHH, but if HHH isn't pinned by Orton, and Orton is rewarded the title, will you fully admit that that's stupid and it makes HHH lose the title but still not put Orton over? Going back to the Superman analogy, there was Superman vs. Doomsday. One on one. And Doomsday flat out killed Superman. The end. There wasn't some "if you kill Jimmy Olsen, then Superman dies by default" stipulation.

For Orton to look good against HHH, especially due to all the times HHH has needlessly put himself over Orton, the situation clearly has to be that Orton cleanly pins HHH and nobody else. He can't beat him due to some sort of interference, because that interference means that Orton isn't good enough to beat HHH on his own. That's not the type of heel that Orton's character is. That's the type of heel that someone like Chavo is. Orton's character is that he's just as good as the faces, but he's an asshole. Not that he's the inadequate heel that needs to cheat to win and can't win otherwise.

And about that rematch clause idea. Orton has lost every one of his titles against HHH. He's never been put over. This year at WrestleMania, he lost to him again. Let's just assume here that the inevitable does happen and Orton doesn't pin HHH at Backlash, but pins someone else, most likely Shane. This still means that Orton can't beat HHH. HHH has not put him over. Then they have a rematch at Judgment Day. You say that if Orton retains, then that means he was put over in a one-on-one situation. Not necessarily. What if Orton retains by DQ or count out? What if he retains because Rhodes and DiBiase come down and attack HHH, making it 3 on 1, and then HHH still fights back, and Orton just gets a quick RKO on him to win? That's NOT putting Orton over as being "better than HHH". It puts HHH over as being "better than Orton, and almost better than Orton, Rhodes, and DiBiase combined".

Literally the only way to have Orton go over HHH is to eliminate any idea of interference, any idea of illegal objects, any "no DQ or you lose the title" stipulation, any "if I pin Shane, I win your title" stipulation...nothing like that. Just a clean pin or a clean submission, similar to how Batista and Cena beat HHH clean at WrestleMania before. Just replace "Batista" or "Cena" with "Orton", and that's it. Once you add in Orton cheating in some way, it means that HHH was not bested by Orton, but rather, Orton couldn't beat him one-on-one.

HHH, like HBK, does not need to win at wrestlemania. He is a legitimate superstar and will remain so. Like someone mentioned earlier i think he was injured two of those years. but since you want to do research look up his win % for thpse six years.

Definitely. People like to argue that HHH hasn't won at WrestleMania in years, and obviously that's a fact that you can't argue with. But you can't say that HHH put Orton over in that triple threat match because Orton pinned Cena after HHH hit the PEDIGREE on Cena. So Orton stole the win from HHH and pinned someone else. And why is it that HHH should be praised for not winning at WrestleMania in all these years when he just wins every other match in the year instead?

Some people bring up Undertaker in that argument and try to say that him winning at WrestleMania every year is "just as bad". That's foolish. I seem to recall Undertaker being pinned clean by Vladimir Kozlov after a regular slam quite recently. Remember? The guy didn't even lose from Kozlov's FINISHER. And did Kozlov cheat at all in that match? Nope. It was simply "Kozlov just beat the Undertaker and didn't even need his finishing move for it". Now THAT is how you put someone over. Did Kozlov ever get a clean pin on HHH without using his finisher? Hell, did Kozlov ever get a clean pin on HHH AT ALL? I can't think of one. I can only think of situations where the two of them had a match and it ended with a DQ or interference.


Its perfectly fine to be a fan of HHH. The guy is definitely worthy of being a main event star. I have no problem in saying that. There was a time period where I even really, really liked him, and he was one of my favorites. This was back in 97, though, when he would lose like everybody else, at times where it would make sense for him to lose. But just because you're a fan of him doesn't mean that you should let yourself be blind to the fact that he clearly does get special treatment and clearly does not put people over the way someone should. He's in good enough shape that he doesn't need to job himself out 24/7 like Hacksaw Jim Duggan does. But if you guys remember, HHH's win/loss record last year was that he had 145 matches and won 125 of them. So he lost 20 out of 145. And that's counting matches that he's lost via count out, disqualification, due to interference, AND matches that he lost because he was a part of a tag team where someone else got pinned. I'd love to see how many, out of those 20 matches, were a clean loss, if there are any.

Anybody that tries to say that HHH doesn't get special treatment is either ignoring the situation or just unable to comprehend it and refuses to admit it. And this is something that hurts the business. If HHH were to be in a feud with someone like CM Punk and lose clean to him several times, and make it so Punk actually won more clean matches over HHH than HHH did over Punk, would that not make the audience view Punk as a more credible main event star? Wouldn't that help the WWE? So why isn't it happening? Why can Shawn Michaels take a clean pinfall lose to Jeff Hardy via a swanton bomb and Jeff simply "out performing" HBK, but HHH can only lose to Jeff once or twice, and only by a quick roll-up? If HHH really did love "the business" like he claims, he'd be trying his best to make new stars out of the upper midcarders, rather than just trying to protect his spot. He should be feuding with the newer guys and losing to them to make them look strong. Sure, he doesn't have to lose in every single match, but he sure as hell should not win every single match and only lose via some cheap method that makes him still look like the better guy.

 

[itbewilly]

Please. If he wasn't boinking Steph he wouldn't be as dominant as he has been.

Better history in front of him? What does that even mean? Orton needed the win last night to get the Legacy over. Now it just looks like another weak faction destroyed by WWE's cancer. It's about what's best for the business not what is best for the roid freak.

I love how everyone says Hunter is only successful because hes screwing Stephanie.Like any of you would turn her down to begin with but that's another story.The fact is even before Stephanie Hunter was on his way to the top in DX(when he was still with Chyna and the clique ya know).When big stars were leaving for hollywood to make movies or jumping to WCW to make a quick pay check or out of wrestling for injury/retirement who was they supposed to turn to?Someone who actually had no talent yet and no promo skills?

Secondly i think the only reason HHH won at Mania was because like someone said he had lost the past few and it didn't matter anyways as i doubt if Orton did win at Mania that their feud would have ended there.Seriously the Stephanie excuse is getting old.If tomorrow Hunter and Stephanie divorced and Hunter by some chance ended up in TNA he'd be just as successful.You guys act like marrying Steph made him what he is.

 

[Azrael Cain]

I am a Triple H fan, and have been since I first saw him on WWF Television (which would be when I started watching wrestling in 1998). He has a connection with the fans unlike any other superstar in the business, and he has the work ethic of a maniac. He is also in an incredibly unique position which puts any success he experiences under suspicion as being unwarranted or undeserved.

But before everyone jumps on the hate wagon and says that Paul Levesque is at the top only because he married into it, rewind history and take a look at how slowly and surely he worked his way to the top of the WWF, from running DX and establishing himself to eventually becoming "The Game" and the #1 guy as the hated heel for the better majority of what was it, 1999? Clearly, Paul was being groomed for the top spot and had his work ethic and talent recognized very quickly -- all before he had ever met Stephanie McMahon.

With that said, though, it is important to note that Paul has been incredibly lucky when it came to his wrestling career. He has met befriended and impressed all the right people at the most critical times during his career. When he worked WCW, he impressed Ric Flair and Arn Anderson. When he worked independents, he learned as much as he could as quickly as he could. He was focused and driven and dedicated -- and that is why he achieved all that he has. And again, he has also been "lucky," falling in love and marrying Stephanie, impressing Vince (be it by the work ethic or by taking the flak for the MSG Incident)... and can we blame the guy for wanting to keep the top spot in the company after busting his ass so long to get there? What if it was you, and all you ever wanted to do was Main Event WrestleMania? Would you be as objective and as giving?

The answer might be maybe you would. And maybe Paul Levesque can indeed be a better professional and do the "right things" for the business. But he is only human, and as fallible as any of us to the desire to be on top and maintain his stay there. He has done his share of helping the business, too, and let's not be hasty in forgetting that. He and Ric took Orton and Batista and launched them into the stratosphere of stardom. (The argument can be made that both guys would eventually have made it anyway, but it would've taken far longer, I think we can all agree there) How was doing that bad for the business? If it wasn't for HHH, Orton wouldn't be in the position he is and all of his fan-boys would be on someone else.

It's ludicrous to say that all of HHH's power comes from his marriage into the McMahon family. It certainly appears as though he has massive amounts of input, but fact of the matter was that he had input way before, during his days with The Clique. He was a hard-working, dedicated wrestler who met and impressed the right people -- that's all. And the benefits of being such a wrestler and of the meeting and impressions keep coming in. What's wrong with that? Nothing! Again, if you made friends with someone who would later go on to become your boss and he remembered you and your work ethic and offered you a good position, would you say "No, that's bad for business, take Jim over there." Fuck no! But you would do your best to help Jim any way you could in the long run. No guarantee Jim wouldn't be jealous, though....

It's not all about "Triple H's [perceived] Power." Orton has had his share of fuck ups in the past. Orton is main eventing WrestleMania. Orton is one of the biggest stars in the world. Who gives a fuck if he isn't champion? He will be, if not now then soon and if not soon then later. He is still young, still talented and will get plenty more chances. Just because it isn't soon enough for you doesn't mean it isn't right. Sit back, relax, exhale and enjoy it for what it is -- a show. Entertainment. Designed to do exactly what it's done: get a rise out of you.

And on the note of "same bland matches," the WWE has a formula for in-ring work. We all know it. Yet, we bitch about it. To be successful in the WWE, a certain type of working must be done in the ring, whether to ensure the safety of the athletes or whatever. Compare it to a dancer who has the same choreography for years on end. It takes years to perfect that choreography, but it's how it's delivered night in and night out that should be evaluated. I am entertained by HHH matches to this day, and I mark for the Knee Face Buster and what-not. I marked for the Stunner when Austin used it every single time, and for the Rock Bottom and for the Tombstone, and for the Sweet Chin Music, the Sharpshooter, the Walls of Jericho, the Leg Drop... there is no way matches will be unpredictable and full of exciting new moves every time! It's dangerous and stupid for them to. The argument that "He only knows five moves," or "Can't sell" isn't cutting it. Open your eyes -- most likely the wrestler knows a myriad of moves and just isn't allowed to use them, and so must sacrifice and pick and choose what works. Yes, he is there to entertain you but he is also there to get paid, to ensure the safety of the other worker, to ensure his own safety... why sabotage all that just for the "thrill" of something new?

It's a show, it's modern day Gladiators with story-lines and no Death. It's Good vs Evil and a vicarious way to live out our own fantasies. If someone came after my family, I would expect justice to come and you bet your ass I'd hit them with a sledgehammer too! But I don't have to because HHH and Orton act it out. Would it have been "cool" to see Orton get away with it? Yeah... but I can watch movies for that bit of fiction. We need to know "good" always wins, and HHH's win at 'Mania backed up this social perception. And thank God it did, because Orton's evil character would've turned many fans away and hurt business.

HHH may be hurting the business professionally and from the inside (although that is open to perception and arguing, with which I am torn on primarily because he is only human and yet we expect him to do what even we wouldn't), but his win at Mania keeps the general audience happy and watching, and reinforces societal expectations... which is a must if one wants to keep making money. I'm amazed at the amount of people at Mania and at events in general with this economic crisis that's going on. People need something to cheer these days. Family is important.... maintaining these expectations, important.

Relax, y'all....

 

[Spjadoe05]

I love how everyone says Hunter is only successful because hes screwing Stephanie.Like any of you would turn her down to begin with but that's another story.

sorry buddy i'm gonna have to say i would turn her down. she looks good but never really impressed me before and know she has fake tits i can't deal with that. lol.

Literally the only way to have Orton go over HHH is to eliminate any idea of interference, any idea of illegal objects, any "no DQ or you lose the title" stipulation, any "if I pin Shane, I win your title" stipulation...nothing like that. Just a clean pin or a clean submission, similar to how Batista and Cena beat HHH clean at WrestleMania before. Just replace "Batista" or "Cena" with "Orton", and that's it. Once you add in Orton cheating in some way, it means that HHH was not bested by Orton, but rather, Orton couldn't beat him one-on-one.

so based on that HHH didn't go over Randy at WM and couldn't beat Orton one-on-one. He had to use the sledge in order to win.

If tomorrow Hunter and Stephanie divorced and Hunter by some chance ended up in TNA he'd be just as successful.

That has nothing to do with whether HHH is good or not. it is because he has name recognition world wide. prime example almost every former WWF/E/WCW guy who has gone to TNA.

He has a connection with the fans unlike any other superstar in the business

I wouldn't agree with that. i think plenty guy have as good a connection or better than HHH.

Clearly, Paul was being groomed for the top spot and had his work ethic and talent recognized very quickly -- all before he had ever met Stephanie McMahon.

I love how we in the IWC assume we know everything. How do you know when they met? How do you know when they started dating?

With that said, though, it is important to note that Paul has been incredibly lucky when it came to his wrestling career. He has met befriended and impressed all the right people at the most critical times during his career.

This is very important. HHH is a very hard worker, some would say he is gold on the mic, and he USED to be very skilled in the ring. through all this he still has been in the right place at the right time and that always helps.

I am entertained by HHH matches to this day, and I mark for the Knee Face Buster and what-not. I marked for the Stunner when Austin used it every single time, and for the Rock Bottom and for the Tombstone, and for the Sweet Chin Music, the Sharpshooter, the Walls of Jericho, the Leg Drop...

the funny thing about this is i don't know if you noticed but all the other moves you mentioned are the wrestlers FINISHING MOVES. you are supposed to have a reaction to them as a fan.

The argument that "He only knows five moves," or "Can't sell" isn't cutting it. Open your eyes -- most likely the wrestler knows a myriad of moves and just isn't allowed to use them, and so must sacrifice and pick and choose what works.

You covered his ass as far as his limited moveset but ignored the fact that he doesn't sell. rarely ever. he is rarely ever down for a long time. he is one of the only guys who can wrestle in three matches in one night and insist that he look strong in evey one.

We need to know "good" always wins, and HHH's win at 'Mania backed up this social perception. And thank God it did, because Orton's evil character would've turned many fans away and hurt business.

that's funny because when he was the monster heel on top of the company he rarely ever lost(just like now) and ratings were pretty steady and maybe even rising during this time.