The Survivor Series LD on 11/21 Will See Where The Winds of Change Blow John Cena!

I don't get your point. Mick Foley (believe it or not NOT an ultra-violent wrestler) put you in that seat. Good, he should have. Micks a legend, and NEEDS to get in the Hall of Fame ASAP. Mick did violent things, but was able to get away with it since he's also a good wrestler, a great wrestling mind, a phenomenal talker, and even his violent stuff (in America) wasn't ultra-violent like the ECW guys.

I agree with what you posted in the first bit, but what Foley did in the Hell in a Cell match or I Quit match or Wrestlemania match against Edge or...I'm losing track...wasn't ultra-violent?

Granted, he didn't take a cheesegrader to his head or anything but still it was sick.
 
Thanks for chiming in.

I do enjoy learning -- and have ceded numerous points to folks on here -- and having spirited conversations -- which this is.

Then you may be one of the only wrestling fans that I have ever seen change their mind about something.
 
Mick flourished because he made you care about what he was doing, something almost everyone in ECW couldn't do. It was "wow, sick spot" and that was about it. Mick made you feel for him when he put it all on the line for his dream. Foley is God,

I do not disagree yet the question is not which is better it is the idea that violence equals failure not being true. ECW didn't even die due to violence. The lesbian kiss was probably the biggest on screen issue and the off-screen issue of money/business handling. Violence didn't kill ECW. Violence and other ECW hot concepts did help WWF move back past WCW.
 
I do not disagree yet the question is not which is better it is the idea that violence equals failure not being true. ECW didn't even die due to violence. The lesbian kiss was probably the biggest on screen issue and the off-screen issue of money/business handling. Violence didn't kill ECW. Violence and other ECW hot concepts did help WWF move back past WCW.
But when your whole show is nothing but shit wrestlers being violent it's not good. Everything is good in moderation, but the entire show being like that just wouldn't have worked for very long.
 
But when your whole show is nothing but shit wrestlers being violent it's not good. Everything is good in moderation, but the entire show being like that just wouldn't have worked for very long.

Contrary to popular belief that was not the whole show. It might be what people remember the most but if it is how is that a bad thing? Creating memorable moments means they did their job. Luchadores and technical but stiff wrestling were featured as well and that is stuff that is still hot today.
 
Interesting parallel to TNA now. Violence was hot then and ECW rode that on the Indy level and to find success in the mainstream they would have had to adapt by toning it down some at the least. Now in the indies "wrestling skills" plays big but there seems to be backlash when TNA cuts that stuff back in an effort to transition to the story driven stuff that you see in the mainstream. Can they make the transition that ECW never could?
 
he's sloppy. He's green. He's not ready to be the top guy in the entire company. He's also been on TV for 5 months. Sheamus was on for 9 or so.

Wade Barrett debuted on WWE TV on the 23rd of Febuary. Try again.

You're right, since the right guy was just fired. Orton is the #2 option, since he's the #2 guy behind Cena.

And on Raw he's been the number 3 guy behind Barrett and Cena. and has been booked as second class to Cena and Barrett. Hence why he should have dropped the damn title so that the two guys who get the most TV time are having their TV time related to the most important object in the company.

That feud is probably not over, and it hasn't sucked.



The match they had tonight was very good. The buildup was very good. Hell, I'd say it was the #2 feud behind CENA's current feud that happened to involve Nexus and good booking.

Orton vs Sheamus (who I was talking about)? Could have sworn that after Orton kicked out of the Brogh Kick twise and pinned him in the Cell it was over. But that's just me. And then there's Orton vs Sheamus producing some very dull PPV matches. If you're talkign about Morrison vs Sheamus, I agree. Not over in the slightest, and an excellent reaosn Sheamus can't feud with Orton.

You're a fool if you think Barrett>Miz. Miz is 9000034987 times better on the mic, and better in-ring.

Colour me a fool then, Becuase I think Barrett's cut some of the best promos this year, they're both shit in the ring and Barrett's position on the card is what made him ready in the first place. And then there's the fact that MIZ ISN'T GOING TO FEUD WITH ORTON OVER THE WWE TITLE UNTIL AFTER HE CASHES IN, WHICH WILL BE AFTER ORTON ALREADY HAS AN OPPONENT.

JoMo is ready for a 1-off PPV title match against a top guy. Much like what Jeff Hardy had, as was mentioned before in this LD.

One off match =/= feud, and he's busy with Sheamus. An then there's the whole issue of him bein unable to carry a title because he can't get an over excited child who's smoked Daddy's crack to be excited for his matches when he's not doing flips. And I'm a fan of JoMo.

Doesn't need to be a heel.

for a feud, it kind of does. Like Regal says, you need a dragon for dragonslayers to fight.

2 faces can have a 1-off PPV Title match feud.

Which probably wouldn't make any sence. I would bet my arse that Barrett will be in the Main event of TLC for the WWE title, and afterwards will continue to occupy a Main event spot. It's sheer fucking lunacy not to give the title to him at this point because he's not leaving the main event for the forseeable future.

How about Daniel Bryan.

Not as over and would make no sence.

How about Justin Gabriel (furthering the Nexus infighting, and Gabriel might be good in a Ladder match at TLC)

Not as over and absolutely not ready. Mostly on acocunt that he can't carry a top title because he has slightly less charisma than John Morrison.

Sorry, the Orton/Barrett stuff has gotten stale.

Get used to it, because Top heel vs Top babyface is the booking formula that Made McMahon a billionaire. And there's no heel on Raw other than Barrett which qualifies at top heel other than Barrett.

Needed to change. Barrett winning kept it going. Barrett moves on, Orton moves on. And Cena's off TV for a while, so he's out of the picture.

It's not going to change though. Barrett has been pushed to the moon. They're not going to stop until he reaches the payoff in the form of the WWE championship. Which he will. They've pushed too hard for him to drop down the card now.

Orton, while not being booked solidly right now, doesn't need to be booked strong to win that match. Cena called it down the middle, and since that's what he did, Orton should have won 100 times out of 100, since he's a MUCH stronger kayfabe in-ring performer.

You're right that Orton has a lot more Kayfabe skill than Barrett. However it was a hardcore match. Wouldn't have taken a huge ammount of imagination for Barrett to low blow Orton, hit the Wastelands and win the match.

1. The crowd shouldn't end the night booing at a Big 4.

THey shouldn't end Raw looking at a wrecked ring either. And then there's always Cena AAing Barrett for the cheers of the fans.

2. I DO think Barrett's done with the title now, since I don't think he's the top heel.

Not even close. Barrett gets more TV time than any other heel. He gets more heat than any other heel (including the guys you mentioned as alternatives) and he's in a better spot to bein in the title chase than any other heel. He's not leaving the Main Event this year ST.

Sheamus (while not in the title hunt right now) is the top heel on RAW.

You'd have been right if Barrett wasn't getting more TV time and being booked over him. But he is.

3. Maybe Jericho comes back soon. He can feud with Orton.

He's not.

1. Randy WAS a third wheel. Now he's the primary wheel.

I'm guessing he'll be secondary wheel on Raw.

2. Cena is likely taking time off. Hence why he was written off TV tonight. He's out of the picture.

Probably, but that doesn't mean I don't think Barrett should have won tonight. They're going to pull the trigger soon, and tonight was a better time than most to do it.

3. Cena isn't in the picture if he screws Orton out of the title. He feuds in Orton (likely into Mania).

He needen't have screwed Orton, and of course he could be in the title picture. All he needs to do is demand a title shot/number 1 contender's match for putting up with Barrett's bullshit. He doesn't get it (rematch clause ftw), screws Orton at TLC (on the kayfabe grounds that he wants to be the one to end Barrett's reign) and gets a title shot by winning a number 1 contender's match vs Orton (because they'll both want a shot at Barrett badly).

Barrett then makes the WWE Title a Midcard title since Orton/Cena >>>>>>>>>>>> Barrett/anybody.

:lmao: This is the same Wade Barrett who'd have beaten the company's top two babyface (Cena twise), KOed the Undertaker and been hanging in the Main event since Night of Champions? Try again.

There is reason. It made no sense to give Barrett the title, especially if Cena is taking time off.

It makes perfect sence. Barrett's been given the push Sheamus wished he could have gotten this time last year. Barrett has been sitting in the Main event for months on end and is being pushed non stop as top heel. FOr them to abandon the push with no payoff would be stupid.

And if Cena carried Barrett, why would you be willing to remove Cena from the equation, meaning the WWE Championship matches at PPVs would be shit.

I wouldn't be removing Cena from the picture. By having him not be fired, he'd still be able to get in on the shindig.

At least with Barrett currently in the Main Event being babied by Cena the angle makes the matches passable.

Barrett had a passible match with R-Truth on Raw. He may be green and sloppy, but he's passible in the ring. He gets heat for his moves and doesn't stink out the joint. And with all his positive attributes, that's good enough. There's also having the shit pushed out of him, and is the only option for Orton to face at TLC. Get ready for Orton vs Barrett III, because it's what's going to happen.
 
If two faces in Batista and Undertaker can have five PPV matches in one year, I'm sure they can make do with Orton fighting a face at TLC. Put Morrison in there and see what he's got. They did the exact same thing with Hardy a couple of years ago.
 

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