Should Candice Michelle be the Womens Champ?

[hatehabsforever]

First of all, ECHELON, I am not complaining about Jillian Hall "again." Quite the opposite. In fact, in an earlier post of mine quite some time ago, I believe I stated that I don't personally follow the indy scene, male or female, so I really cannot comment on Jillian first hand. I in fact deferred to your expertise specifically regarding her skills as a wrestler, assuming she is as good as you guys all claim she is. I don't question her ability in the ring or for that matter on the mic. All I'm saying is that we'll never see evidence of this in a WWE ring so it's irrelevant. All of the moves she has done elsewhere in the past, she won't be allowed to do in WWE anyway, so they do nothing to establish her as a WWE women's champion.

I don't question her ability to draw heat either, but she won't become champion because of it. Things like that should matter, but we all know that in the WWE women's division, they don't. Unfortunately pretty much all that matters is whether or not she's hot, and she's not. End of story.

I think where we disagree is in the theory of the way the women's division should be (your point), versus the way it has degraded itself into (my point). I question very little of your vision regarding the WWE Women's Division. Unfortunately it's not Vince McMahon's vision, so diva searches and eye candy will continue to come to the forefront.

And let's not be totally ridiculous. Kelly Kelly or Maryse don't even wrestle, at all; they don't even try, so of course they won't become champions. At least Candice is trying, even though she is pretty pathetic. Before she showed this effort, she was still hot, but she never got her push.

Let me pose a hypothetical question to you. Let's, for the sake of discussion, assume the WWE adds a component to their Wellness Policy that suddenly bans breast implants from the WWE. Any divas with implants must have them removed immediately, and any new divas are not allowed to have them. Furthermore, clothing becomes more conservative: loose fitting long pants and full coverage tops only. Novelty/gimmick matches are banned from the WWE (pudding matches, etc.,). But the restrictions to what moves are allowed and what ones aren't remains unchanged (so people like Jillian Hall cannot truly shine). Now I know these are a lot of silly hypotheticals, but my question to you is this: How long do you think the WWE Women's Division would survive? If the women's claim to fame was based strictly on wrestling ability, not looks or gimmicks, but actual wrestling, would the division even exist? I say it would cease to exist, and fast. Because that's all the Women's Division is now, which may be unfortunate, but it's the reality of today's WWE. I know, because you post about it frequently, that this annoys the hell out of you, but I don't think I'm wrong.

WWE needs Candice and Melina to be rolling around in chocolate pudding to have this division even exist. Hell, let's bring Maria out for an interview, and throw her in there too. Personally I'd rather see two great female athletes compete for a viable title. A returning Trish Stratus versus an unleashed Jillian Hall, for example. But I'm not holding my breath. It will more likely be a diva search winner versus some other blond bimbo, rolling around in lemon jello, for the forseeable future.

 

[Bernkastel]

I don't question her ability to draw heat either, but she won't become champion because of it. Things like that should matter, but we all know that in the WWE women's division, they don't. Unfortunately pretty much all that matters is whether or not she's hot, and she's not. End of story.

But I think that Jillian Hall will get over by being a good entertainer. Look at Trish Stratus, do you think that her last 5 or so title reigns came purely because the fans thought she was attractive? No. She was given the championship because of her ability to entertain, to act the part, to draw you into the storyline and make it believable. I feel Jillian has the same ability. To prove this, when WWE first hired Jillian, her character was only supposed to be around to the expanse of JBL's publicist, then then were going to let her go. But she sold the Bogeyman segment so well, that WWE decided to keep her around, and now they've made the decision to move her to RAW, so the powers that be MUST be impressed with her to not only not fire her, but to move her from Smackdown to RAW, the #1 show. And since you said that Jillian isn't has hot as most divas, she may be out of place, but yet WWE moved her, when they could have moved Ashley or Michelle instead. So, I don't think being hot will be a determining factor if Jillian were to ever win the title in the future.

I think where we disagree is in the theory of the way the women's division should be (your point), versus the way it has degraded itself into (my point). I question very little of your vision regarding the WWE Women's Division. Unfortunately it's not Vince McMahon's vision, so diva searches and eye candy will continue to come to the forefront.

I think that we're pretty much in agreement with everything except that you think that a divas Looks, especially in the main event, are a determining factor for them to win the title. I don't think that this is true. Its only been since the Diva search challenge that WWE has been putting more of an emphasis on a womans looks. And like I stated in the post above, these gimmick matches (bra and panties, pudding...etc) where usually reserved for the divas undercard matches, especially on Smackdown, with women like Torrie and Sable and Dawn Marie. But on Raw, even up to as little as 2005, their were not allot of gimmick matches like that on RAW. WWE had full storylines going, Trish vs Lita, Trish vs Mickie James, Lita vs Mickie James. None of these storylines had to have some gimmick match (mind you matches, not segments) to get over. It was only after Trish and Lita left, and Melina got the title and began her feud with Candice did some of these gimmick matches appear in the main event. I stated in the above post that maybe the pudding match happened because WWE was concerned about Candice's experience, and her lack of ability to draw crowds. The pudding match was an easy way to get Candice over, but that momentum would only last to the title match. IMO I don't think the womens division (at least the main event and the title) has degraded itself. I honestly think that this was a one time deal set up by the WWE to help get Candice over easily, because she couldn't draw on her own. And WWE had to go with Candice because there wasn't anybody else on Raw at the time to carry the title.

If the women's claim to fame was based strictly on wrestling ability, not looks or gimmicks, but actual wrestling, would the division even exist? I say it would cease to exist, and fast. Because that's all the Women's Division is now, which may be unfortunate, but it's the reality of today's WWE. I know, because you post about it frequently, that this annoys the hell out of you, but I don't think I'm wrong.

Well I think your right, there has to be some mixture of sex appeal in the womens division. But Like I stated above, the WWE has been Mixing sex appeal in the womens undercard, while leaving the wrestling and entertainment aspect up to the main event wrestlers, and they have been doing it that way for years and its worked without any complaints. IMO WWE only had to resort to more sex appeal because many of their main event wrestlers left, leaving the WWE no choice but to air more segment and matches with added sex appeal in an attempt to get their new wrestlers over with the crowd, because WWE feared that maybe they couldn't do it on there own. My problem with Candice right now is that it seems that she is still reallying on WWE to get her over instead of doing it herself. I'll shut my mouth if Candice makes a chance in the next few weeks, but if she doesn't, then she'll only make my rant on her louder and longer. Personally, I feel that once WWE gets Candice settled in with her drawing on her own, then they'll drop the gimmick matches with the added sex appeal in the main event, because they won't need it to get those wrestlers over, they should already be over and have the ability to entertain the crowd without resorting the use of their assets to keep people enjoying a storyline. Like I stated above, the sex gimmick matches are good for women in the undercard but not the main event, because its distracts viewers from storylines that WWE is trying to get across, and I don't think they want that, so my guess is that once Candice either drops the title or gets situated, WWE will drop the gimmick matches.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well I know there will be people that will try and argue Candice's case, I just need to wait for them to post.

I'm here.


First, I want to say how funny it is to see all the posts talking about "how the Women's championship doesn't mean anything anymore." Umm, when has it EVER meant anything? Since 1990, when has the Women's championship belt meant a damn thing? It doesn't. The only reason the Women's division exists is to appeal to a small niche of fans, to keep those fans interested in the WWE product. There has never been any creative input into the storylines, the writing has always been substandard, and the interest is simply not there on a large scale. Sure, we can think back to Wrestlemania 22 and the Trish/Mickie match and think, "yeah, the belt meant something then". No, it didn't. The only reason people think the belt has ever meant anything is because of a nostaligic memory. The Women's belt means as much now as it ever has.

With that being said, why not give it to Candice? Most people here have admitted to the fact that she has improved tremendously and is now a competent in-ring worker. She's a marketable girl, with some small amount of fame, which instantly puts her above every other girl in the WWE at the moment. She is composed in the ring during matches and during promos and rarely flubs her lines. She makes a good midcard champion, which is all the Women's title is.

"But, Slyfox, she's not over with the crowd." True. But, no one is really. There have only been four women in the last ten years that were truly over with the crowd because of wrestling. Chyna, Trish, Lita, and Mickie. That's it. Melina is not over with the crowd, nor is a Jillian Hall or a Beth Phoenix (what do people see in her anyways?) or a *insert random WWE women's wrestler here*. None of them are over. And Mickie James is aimlessly drifting along in current storylines and I'm not even sure how over she is anymore.

So, why not Candice? She's marketable, fair in the ring, fair on the stick, and just as over as any of the women wrestlers. It's a good way to get Candice to become credible in the fans eyes, and another step towards building a decent (for the WWE) women's division.


As for the Mickie James/Melina thing. I know there was some bad blood between the two of them in real life. I also know that Melina botched a couple of moves on Mickie. I wouldn't be surprised if that feud was dropped simply to keep a real fight from occurring.


And, when did all of a sudden Melina become some goddess of th women's division?

 

[Bernkastel]

On the contrary Slyfox, Melina IS over with the crowd, she's quite possibly the most over heel they have. She draws massive heat with her gimmick, she has hundreds of fans that show up to each show to boo her, just like they booed the hell out of Lita during her final run (although the fans are booing Melina for something totally different).

Your saying that Candice does good promos? I have yet to see Candice give a good promo without her taking her top off.

Your Saying the belt hasn't mean't anything since 1990. Um ok, so all of the hype the womens division received during the 2000 - 2004 period meant nothing to you? Didn't a womens title match main event RAW one time? And what was up with all the gimmick matches such as hardcore matches, cage matches, hair vs hair matches, and last women standing matches? If the WWE didn't care about their womens division, then why would they even bother to give it all that mainstream publicity? And what was up with all of those mainstream storylines? The WWE womens division has put out some of the best storylines in the WWE over the past 10 years as far as entertainment and quality go. Jackie vs Sable, Lita vs Stephanie, Trish vs Lita, Trish vs Victoria, Trish vs Mickie James. Why would the WWE go through so much trouble with all of these storylines, If they thought that they where second rate and not worth the effort?

And I'm not denying that Candice has improved and has the potential to be a good champion, but could you tell me what WWE is marketing off her? Sex Appeal? EVERY GODDAMN WOMAN IN THE DIVISION HAS THAT CREDIT, SO I DON'T BUY IT. Play Boy? Pretty much every woman in WWE has done play boy so it doesn't make Candice any more special than the rest of those women. I hope WWE reveals to me at least what their plans are for Candice are in the near future.

And no Candice is not over, I just rewatched the matches and the fans were definitely cheering Mickie James over Candice, some of the fans even pointed to Mickie James, and didn't even acknowledge Candice.

 

[Slyfox696]

On the contrary Slyfox, Melina IS over with the crowd, she's quite possibly the most over heel they have. She draws massive heat with her gimmick, she has hundreds of fans that show up to each show to boo her, just like they booed the hell out of Lita during her final run (although the fans are booing Melina for something totally different).

When did this start happening? I've been watching Raw on a pretty consistent basis, and the only thing I hear during women's matches is the stampede of feet on bleachers as everyone takes their bathroom break.

I've yet to hear any consistent significant heat for Melina.

Your saying that Candice does good promos? I have yet to see Candice give a good promo without her taking her top off.

I'm saying that she gets the job done. She doesn't flub her lines, she gets the point across. Is she the second coming of Hulk Hogan or The Rock? No. But, she does the job.

And I'm not denying that Candice has improved and has the potential to be a good champion, but could you tell me what WWE is marketing off her?

Recognition. She is a face wrestler, who has some degree of mainstream notoriety thanks to her ongoing appearances with GoDaddy.com. She handles herself well enough in the ring, she's a gorgeous lady, and people know who she is. Melina is solid in the ring, but completely unattractive and no one in the mainstream has even heard of her.

 

[pg04]

I like Candice as the women's champ. She looks legitimately happy to hold the belt and I believe from what JR says when she's in the ring that she has worked very diligently on her in ring work. The Candy Wrapper" she used tonight was pretty good.

 

[Bernkastel]

When did this start happening? I've been watching Raw on a pretty consistent basis, and the only thing I hear during women's matches is the stampede of feet on bleachers as everyone takes their bathroom break.

I've yet to hear any consistent significant heat for Melina.

Melina is over, she generates allot of heel heat from that prissy bitch gimmick of hers. Melina was generating allot of heat during her feud with Mickie James, but it was with this past feud with Candice, since the two have had it out on every occasion, including an apparent "legitimate" falling out on WWE.com, she has been generating even more heat from the fans. Just listen to the crowd during the matches, as I think Melina does a great job of playing into the crowd and making them hate her more. As of right now Melina is the most over womens heel in WWE, and its evident when WWE chooses Melina over Victoria, who, despite her not being in high profile matches in a while, has maintained her popularity with the crowd. But even despite that, when the time came for WWE to try and get Victoria over again, the fans decided that they liked Melina as a heel over Victoria.

I'm saying that she gets the job done. She doesn't flub her lines, she gets the point across. Is she the second coming of Hulk Hogan or The Rock? No. But, she does the job.

And again I'm saying that I've yet to see evidence of these so called mic skills that you say she has. Almost all of Candice's promos have been done over the internet, and while the internet leaves little room for mistakes, it also leaves out the passion and determination that a live or even a pre recorded promo can do.

Recognition. She is a face wrestler, who has some degree of mainstream notoriety thanks to her ongoing appearances with GoDaddy.com. She handles herself well enough in the ring, she's a gorgeous lady, and people know who she is. Melina is solid in the ring, but completely unattractive and no one in the mainstream has even heard of her.

Candice hasn't done work with GoDaddy since what, last year? And even if she had done work for them, she's not even their top affiliate anymore, Danica Patrick is. Candice Michelle is in the same shoes as Melina as far as mainstream publicity, as any publicity she may have had in the past (The Diva Search, Playboy, GoDaddy) These things will not help Candice as most people don't know who she is despite all these things, and the fans that do know who she is don't really care about her.

I'll be honest, and I've stated this a number of times in this thread. I don't feel that Candice is over right now, I don't think that she's established with the crowd, and I don't think that she can draw. But, I think that WWE is aware of this and they will provide a new way for Candice to get over, whether it be mic skills, leadership skills, or the ability to entertain a crowd and get them into storylines and help make the storylines believable. I hope that WWE establishes Candice soon, because the WWE isn't in a position to lose money with a champ that can't perform. Hopefully if Candice gets over and establishes herself, then she won't have to use outside companies and gimmick matches to help her get over.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

Recognition. She is a face wrestler, who has some degree of mainstream notoriety thanks to her ongoing appearances with GoDaddy.com. She handles herself well enough in the ring, she's a gorgeous lady, and people know who she is. Melina is solid in the ring, but completely unattractive and no one in the mainstream has even heard of her.

I sincerely doubt that the "mainstream" is paying attention to the WWE or Candice Michelle just because she was in a few "GoDaddy" commercials and "Playboy." I also doubt that anyone besides wrestling fans know who Candice is. My take on it is that "recognition" plays a very small part in the reason why Candice is champion. I think the reason the WWE put the belt on her is because she improved in the ring (still she's no Mickie James, or Beth Phoenix, or Jillian Hall, or even Melina), because she does have the "looks," and because the Diva Seach is coming up, so it would make sense (to the WWE, not to me) to have a former Diva Search contestant be champion.

If the WWE chooses to discontinue the Melina/Candice feud I'm hoping that Beth Phoenix has the chance to go for the title. She really does deserve it.

On a side note... I don't think Melina's unattractive. She's pretty to me, but to each his (or her) own.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[.MCH]

After seeing Candice's performance tonight, yes she deserves to be women's champion. Her match tonight was undeniably her best match of her career. I was impressed. Did you see the crossbody?

Please don't tell me Candice isn't over with the crowds. No she doesn't get Mickie pops but she gets them. Listen a little closer. She has a very large fanbase and like Slyfox said she's marketable.

I seriously think that come Survivor Series, Candice will be way up in her in-ring skills, farther then where she is now! Tonight on RAW she'll be teaming up with Cena which means that her popularity will rise! When you're the women's champion and you get exposed with main eventers, you're bound to get over more. Remember Trish pairing up with the Rock after she won the title? Soon after noone was really complaining about her being champ then! But in the next few weeks, expect to see Candice get the pops and such!

When did I bring looks into it Ech? I wasn't talking about looks! I was talking about her reaction! Also, you say she's failing as champ and the belt should be gone? If you watching these matches like I was then you would see that she had no time to prove herself as champion! Come on Ech! She only had one match that she wrestled 45 seconds of! How can you prove what kind of champ you are with that?

The final fact is that Candice does deserve to be champion, hands down. She can wrestle, deny it or not, she tries really hard to do her best, she's likeable, she's got charisma, her mic skills are decent (look at her time with Vinces Devils and then say her mic skills suck), and most of all she has the determination to be the greatest!

One more not, when has Candice botched a move? The only one I saw was her spinning heel kicks to Melina. Notice how it only looked bad on Melina and not when she did it to Victoria or Kristal! It's Melina's fault that it was messed up because she didn't take it right.

Anyways, I love her new finisher and the name is very creative! I know Maria did it first but I liked how Candice did it better!

Peace Out!

 

[Draman27]

I don't believe Candice deserves to be champion. She is very inexperienced, doesn't have good mic-skills, or atleast that's what I have heard.(She never talks) She is improving, but champion....I mean you still have Beth,Mickie,Melina,and Jillian...IMO they all deserve it more than Candice. Melina had to carry Candice the whole match, as she did at Vengeance. Melina has been improving, however her title shot is probably done, and Candice will feud with Beth.....unless Melina gets a shot at Summerslam? Candice is improving rapidly, but she got the title to quick.

 

[Bernkastel]

Rawfannation, as of this moment, right now, until I get to a point where I can watch the match for myself to make a solid judgment, and odds are even once I do,you'll still be wrong. And the only reason why I say that, is because, like YOU said, Candice hasn't had enough time to get established and over, and I highly doubt she can do it in all in a 7 minute match, new finisher or not (and especially a finisher thats been done to death in the women's division). So what I'm going to do is shut my mouth for lets say a month (plenty of time for a supposed main eventer to at least get established) and let WWE run its supposed course, and hopefully Candice will be over in a months time. If not and nothing has changed, then expect me back here, ranting on this thread about Candice's inability to draw, and if that turns out to be the case in a month, then I doubt anyone here will argue with me. Does that sound fair enough to you?

 

[mysticx0]

women in general do not draw. they suck in the ring. when a 110 pound woman can grabs someone by the arm and irish whips them i laugh and then get sad. i laugh at how impossible it is and how dumb it looks and then i get sad because it just destroys any "realness" the move had. womens wrestling is way too often packed with moves where the opponent is obviously helping with the moves to make it sell. in the end, these matches degrade the believeibility of every other match on the card.

there is a womens division for one reason only. MONEY. it gives girls something to cheer for when their dad/boyfriend/whatever is watching, then there is money to be made from the diva search sponsors, playboy, etc. and all the free exposure it gets the wwe.

so even though the matches are rating killers and ruins the quality of not only the show but every move they use, they bring in millions of dollars. and thats all that matters.

so does candice deserve the title? sure why not. alot of people agree womens wrestling sucks but then say "well so-and-so is getting better" for example. the whole division is terrible. there is no "good terrible" or "better terrible"...its all just garbage. so it doesnt matter who holds it.

 

[hatehabsforever]

OK, ECHELON, I am asssuming we can end this debate once and for all. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not gloating, but I think the GAB proved my point once and for all. Remember we talked about the difference between the way the women's division should be (your point) versus the way it has evolved/degraded (my point).

We can sit back and debate Candice's right to be champion all day long. But let's face it, with WWE's current vision of this "division," there's no denying why she is the Women's Champion.

It has little to do with her mic skills (which I feel are non-existent). It has nothing to do with her in-ring skills (which granted have improved dramatically, I thought she held her own in the ring pretty well last night and I liked her new finisher). It has nothing to do with her work ethic, her willingness to learn, her sacrifices or her improvements.

It has to do with T & A and that's what the Women's Division is all about at the moment, nothing more, nothing less.

Look at her outfit she wore last night. Look at her ring entrance (not new, but ripping off her jacket to show off her chest is more about T&A and less about wrestling).

Look at backstage after the match. If the WWE wanted to portray her as a plausible champion who's there because of her skills, she wouldn't need a slow motion water bottle shower in front of the Hardys. Not that I'm complaining about that, but don't you think this undermines her credibility and as such, undermines the credibility of the division when she's their champion?

Let's face it, if Jazz were still with the WWE and had just successfully defended her title, I doubt she would have been dousing herself with water, flipping her hair around, and if she had, I doubt the Hardys would have been very impressed.

Jillian, Melina, Victoria, Mickie, Beth, probably all better wrestlers than Candice. But WWE doesn't care about that, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. You may not like it, but you may as well accept it.

The only time I'm embarrassed watching wrestling with a non-wrestling fan, or with my kids, is when the women are on. Because any argument about the WWE, defending it as not being ridiculous, goes right out the window. How could I argue the legitimacy of the women's division with someone who doesn't watch WWE after seeing Candice's impromptu shower?

Candice is there for one reason and one reason only. While I don't expect a long title reign, look for the next diva search winner or blond bimbo to be not too far behind.

 

[Slyfox696]

Melina is over, she generates allot of heel heat from that prissy bitch gimmick of hers.

What do you consider to be "a lot"? Because when I watch her wrestle it's usually crickets in the arena.

As of right now Melina is the most over heel in WWE,

I'm sure you mean strictly speaking about the Women's division. At least I hope so, because there are plenty of heels that get better heel heat than Melina. Edge gets more heel heat just by standing in a ring.

and its evident when WWE chooses Melina over Victoria, who, despite her not being in high profile matches in a while, has maintained her popularity with the crowd.

Victoria has popularity with the crowd? When? Victoria is an example of the "Charlie Haas Pop". Melina is clearly more over than Victoria, and probably always will be.

And again I'm saying that I've yet to see evidence of these so called mic skills that you say she has. Almost all of Candice's promos have been done over the internet, and while the internet leaves little room for mistakes, it also leaves out the passion and determination that a live or even a pre recorded promo can do.

She does a lot of backstage promos and usually does a solid job.

Candice hasn't done work with GoDaddy since what, last year?

This year's Super Bowl. Remember they had all those commercial promos about it, and how it was supposed to be so hot and everything?

I sincerely doubt that the "mainstream" is paying attention to the WWE or Candice Michelle just because she was in a few "GoDaddy" commercials and "Playboy."

But, the WWE can market that. "Hey, look, our women's wrestlers are getting acting jobs in the television market. Candice Michelle is a sponsor of GoDaddy.com, and is a regular in their commercials. And, if you've ever seen her GoDaddy.com commercials, and want to see more, just check out her Playboy issue". It's marketable. Melina's only recognition and only marketability comes from her time in the WWE.

I also doubt that anyone besides wrestling fans know who Candice is.

But, with Candice they COULD. The WWE can say "look at her, you might remember her from these commercials". All the WWE can say for Melina is, "hey...she wrestles for us".

My take on it is that "recognition" plays a very small part in the reason why Candice is champion. I think the reason the WWE put the belt on her is because she improved in the ring (still she's no Mickie James, or Beth Phoenix, or Jillian Hall, or even Melina), because she does have the "looks," and because the Diva Seach is coming up, so it would make sense (to the WWE, not to me) to have a former Diva Search contestant be champion.

I'm sure this played a big factor into it, as well as just trying to get another superstar over with the crowd. I don't deny that these are important factors in Candice's title run.

If the WWE chooses to discontinue the Melina/Candice feud I'm hoping that Beth Phoenix has the chance to go for the title. She really does deserve it.

Why? Why does Beth Phoenix deserve it? What has she ever done in the WWE that makes her deserve a title?

On a side note... I don't think Melina's unattractive. She's pretty to me, but to each his (or her) own.

Hahaha, well I know that this has been a pretty controversial subject for a lot of people. I just don't see the attractiveness. I think the best thing she's ever done for herself is spread her legs (to get in the ring...that sounded bad didn't it?).

If not and nothing has changed, then expect me back here, ranting on this thread about Candice's inability to draw, and if that turns out to be the case in a month, then I doubt anyone here will argue with me.

I won't argue with you. I don't argue with you now on that. Candice doesn't draw. But, none of the current division draw. There was a guy who used to do a quarter hour breakdown for each wrestler on another forum I visit. He's since been banned (multiple times) and so he's not there any longer to continue that, which is a shame because it really was pretty interesting.

The reason I bring that up is because, contrary to my belief, Lita actually was a fairly strong draw in the WWE, at least in terms of quarter hour numbers. The numbers were from May to the end of October, and she faired better than people such as Randy Orton, Umaga, London/Kendrick, Kane, Booker T., Batista, etc. Now, this was only taking into account quarter hour viewership but it was pretty interesting.

 

[Attack]

I don't really care who is the womans champion, since it is the most insignificant title in all of pro-wrestling, but come on, Candice? This woman is the worst actor I have ever seen. A five year old could say her lines and be more believable than Candice.

 

[Cassy8913]

Alright. So ive just read through everyones posts. And i`m not really going to go back in the past and argue with anything you guys have said. Because I both agree and disagree.

Since the title of this is " Should Candice Michelle be the Womens Champ?" i`ll tell you my answer. My answer is no, not now. She doesn`t deserve it. She hasn`t done anything besides remove her clothes to earn it. Her wrestling skills are extremely sloppy. She steals peoples finishers. Candy wrapper is pretty much an Unprettier except she added the bull dog. She stole Melina`s finisher California Dreaming and also Ashleys Starstruck [the elbow off the top rope]. WWE is now trying to make Candice the next Trish Stratus. Candice is no Trish never will be. The thing she did last night at the bash backstage is what she has more experience with. PORN. She should just go back to taking her clothes off and getting on her knees its what she`s best at. She isn`t cut out for WWE. No one from the Diva Search has really proved themselfs to be WWE material. Especially candice. Hate all you want but this is my opinion. Everyone is entitled to there own. Have a good day =]

 

[STATANANNI]

Candice Michelle is a decent champion,although her skills in the ring are not as polished as Beth Phoenix, Mickie James, and Jillian Hall. I think her title reign as Women's Champion will go for a while. The WWE needs to have her as women's champion for the sex appeal. This is my opinion.

 

[kwig2121]

The posters are right on point here. First off the women's title has lost some meaning because you don't have the mega star to carry the belt, ie, Chyna, Trish Stratus, Sable, hell after the Edge thing Lita brought a lot of attention to the women's title. Back in the days you had solid workers like a Jacqueline that could really put on a solid match.

Without them, it is a stretch to build the next mega women's star. Most of the girls are valets, Maria, Torrie, Candace Michelle, etc. As the poster said great eye candy, like Stacy Kiebler, but in the ring leaves a lot to be desired.

No Candace should not be the champion. The champion should have remained Melina cause she drew enormous heat and was a good worker. If they wanted to change, then go with Mickie James.

I guess they didn't have enough material between Mickie, Victoria and Melina, so they chose a girl who worked her tail off, looks good but has no following, in Candace. Also Ashley's defection to Survivor may have played a part as I beleive she was going to get the next big push

 

[Bernkastel]

women in general do not draw. they suck in the ring. when a 110 pound woman can grabs someone by the arm and irish whips them i laugh and then get sad. i laugh at how impossible it is and how dumb it looks and then i get sad because it just destroys any "realness" the move had. womens wrestling is way too often packed with moves where the opponent is obviously helping with the moves to make it sell. in the end, these matches degrade the believeibility of every other match on the card.

You need to watch some of the women of the indy circuit, then come back and tell me that womens wrestling sucks.

Hatehabs, I agree with everything you just posted. I think WWE IS using Candice as a catalyst to bring more sex appeal to WWE and because, quite frankly, thats all Candice has is her looks, she has nothing else established, so for now, WWE is trying to get her over with her looks. I hope WWE changes this because, yes, you are right, if they don't WWE will be sending the message that any fucking bimbo they pull out of a magazine can be champ, and thats not right. But still, I honestly think that the next champ will not have to rely on gimmick matches and sex appeal to get over with the crowd.

But, the WWE can market that. "Hey, look, our women's wrestlers are getting acting jobs in the television market. Candice Michelle is a sponsor of GoDaddy.com, and is a regular in their commercials. And, if you've ever seen her GoDaddy.com commercials, and want to see more, just check out her Playboy issue". It's marketable. Melina's only recognition and only marketability comes from her time in the WWE.

maybe, but I still don't think that anybody will knows who she is thanks to those endorsements deals, and to prove this, look at Ashley and Torrie, they've sponsored many products and TV and magazines, but do people really know who they are, no. Torrie, maybe, because she's been in the medias eye for almost a decade, but still The people that do know who she is probably don't make the connection to professional wrestler, 'model' comes to mind, but not pro wrestler. Why should Candice be different? Because she's the champ? No! Ashley was #1 contender at one point but didn't even get over with the crowd, that and she sucks as a wrestler. These endorsement deals, (Godaddy, playboy) should not be a determining factor of whether or not Candice gets over with the crowd.

Victoria has popularity with the crowd? When? Victoria is an example of the "Charlie Haas Pop". Melina is clearly more over than Victoria, and probably always will be.

Guys love a psycho - semi psychotic, take no bullshit, badass chick, you should too

Why? Why does Beth Phoenix deserve it? What has she ever done in the WWE that makes her deserve a title?

Actually I agree with that, Beth phoenix hasn't really done anything to warrant a title run, but I think she has loads of potential, she has good mic skills, excellent ring skills, and now she has the look. Its only a matter of time before she establishes herself and gets over.

Hahaha, well I know that this has been a pretty controversial subject for a lot of people. I just don't see the attractiveness. I think the best thing she's ever done for herself is spread her legs (to get in the ring...that sounded bad didn't it?).

Well, I've stated several times, mostly in the bar room when the subject comes up, that I don't find divas like Ashley or Candice or Brooke or Michelle McCool to be all that attractive, however, I do find divas like Jillian and Melina and Kelly (even through I hate her as a wrestler) and Mickie James to be very attractive. So even though their may be a diva you like, odds are someone else doesn't like the way they look.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

One more not, when has Candice botched a move? The only one I saw was her spinning heel kicks to Melina. Notice how it only looked bad on Melina and not when she did it to Victoria or Kristal! It's Melina's fault that it was messed up because she didn't take it right.

Of course, blame Candice's missplaced kicks on Melina. Candice never did the spinning heel kick really well, and besides how could Melina mess up on it? Melina can't control where Candice places her legs.

Why? Why does Beth Phoenix deserve it? What has she ever done in the WWE that makes her deserve a title?

Beth is a pretty great female wrestler. I'm a fan of hers and my question to you is why doesn't Beth deserve the title? She's worked her butt off for it in my opinion.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[it0mmy]

I don't believe Candice deserves to be champion. She is very inexperienced, doesn't have good mic-skills, or atleast that's what I have heard.(She never talks) She is improving, but champion....I mean you still have Beth,Mickie,Melina,and Jillian...IMO they all deserve it more than Candice. Melina had to carry Candice the whole match, as she did at Vengeance. Melina has been improving, however her title shot is probably done, and Candice will feud with Beth.....unless Melina gets a shot at Summerslam? Candice is improving rapidly, but she got the title to quick.

Thats Very true. Candice got the title way to quick. Other deserving divas like mickie, jillian, victoria and Torrie deserved to be in the Match at Vengence

 

[divagurl897]

i think it's good though, the reason why they gave her the push was because of her improvement??????

also, EVERYONE botches so don't just blame it on one person, i've seen videos divas/superstars doing nothing but botching so on that part i don't care, it's how hard you work and if they see it in they let you have it. Or also if they run out of choices they let you have lol!

 

[Draman27]

Everyone does botch, Candice improved very rapidly as I have said before. However she was only training for about a year, and others have been training a lot longer than that. And the reason she is "so improved" is because of how awful she was in the beginning. Candice does deserve to be champion, just not at this time. I would rather see a heel hold the title(Melina,Jillian,Beth) this way Candice and Mickie could chase the title, and the Heels could gain more heat each week.

Im hoping for Melina vs Candice at SS....WWE has 4 weeks to get heat on Beth, and Jillian seems to be out of the picture.

 

[divagurl897]

Everyone does botch, Candice improved very rapidly as I have said before. However she was only training for about a year, and others have been training a lot longer than that. And the reason she is "so improved" is because of how awful she was in the beginning. Candice does deserve to be champion, just not at this time. I would rather see a heel hold the title(Melina,Jillian,Beth) this way Candice and Mickie could chase the title, and the Heels could gain more heat each week.

Im hoping for Melina vs Candice at SS....WWE has 4 weeks to get heat on Beth, and Jillian seems to be out of the picture.

I agree, they did give the belt to her too fast. But the only reason im cheering her on is because i honestly thought at vengence(however you spell it) that melina was going to rip candice apart! I never expected candice to win, but when she did I believed that maybe she would be ok as champ, I still feel it's to early and agree she should lose it to a heel for awhile, so she cold step her game up.

I also think that candice got more reaction from the crowd before she was champ.

 

[Draman27]

I agree, they did give the belt to her too fast. But the only reason im cheering her on is because i honestly thought at vengence(however you spell it) that melina was going to rip candice apart! I never expected candice to win, but when she did I believed that maybe she would be ok as champ, I still feel it's to early and agree she should lose it to a heel for awhile, so she cold step her game up.

I also think that candice got more reaction from the crowd before she was champ.

Agreed, it seems that the fans could care less about her being champion....but then again, it is the Womens title. I also agree, if she wasn't champ, and chasing the title, as she started to reach full potential, then you put the belt on her. Melina and Maria have been improving also lol...