**MERGED** All Kane & Cena Angle Discussion- KEEP IT ALL IN HERE

[CarlSinclair]

Before my actual post, I just want to point out I stopped reading comments after the first 10ish?. I got too annoyed. I respect peoples opinions but everyone was coming across like a whiney little mark.

Everyone has whinged for about 5 years now that Cena needs to go Heel. This is obviously the forebear/tester to see if it should go ahead.

Kane being devils advocate is PERFECT for his character. The mask, the talking the taunting of Cena. It reminds me a bit of Sean O'Haire when he had the "I am not telling you anything you don't already know" bit.

I think Kane doing that with Cena is perfect. I would have Kane just appear time after time, mess with Cena. Watch him loose matches, laugh as the crowd turns on him. If they keep it going for a few weeks the crowd will get more and more behind booing Cena.

He should snap, beat the living sh*t out of Kane and go Heel. He can even team up with Kane if need be or go on his own talking (not rapping) like he did to draw heat back in his early run. Cena can pull a crap load of heat when he needs too. Watch his promo on Undertaker in Chicago during his rap gimmick run.. that crowd wanted to murder him.

I think its interesting. I think it was cool. I think it was different. I think people need to stop moaning for the sake of it.

 

[Twocenter]

This promo was very mystical. It is very hard to get the true meaning of this promo. This promo suited Kane a lot because his voice was demonic and he truly delivered this nicely. That pyro burst stopping Cena was well done showing his fire powers just like undertaker used to summon lightning. Similarly, silent crowd made this promo even more truthful. Kane kept on exposing lies about RAH and crowd added an eerie feel to it. This was the "IT" in this promo. Kane got the crowd behind him for chanting "Cena Sucks" and Cena was astonished. I think Kane should continue this thing by interfering by making Cena feel the hate from the crowd. Slowly and slowly this will turn into the greatest moment in pro wrestling. Even bigger than NWO. A heel SuperCena will be better than Hollywood Hogan. This will happen "If" he turns heel if not

 

[The Big Red Machine]

I really liked the promo that Kane done why are people moaning this isn't 1999 he has been speaking for a while now. he was using words that maybe some people wont get but I did. Either way it is obvious that a heel turn is coming but I doubt that it will be the return of the thuganomics but the direction wwe are going is very good they are giving people like zack ryder a chance to me they are doing better than like 2 years ago. The so called end is coming so why not?

 

[wwe4ever]

I absolutely loved Kane's promo. The only thing that went wrong was the timing of the pyro going off in front of Cena. I don't know whose fault it was, but Kane should have said "Stop", then the pyro would go off, but what happened was the opposite. Apart from that minor mistake, Glen Jacobs was brilliant on the mic. I love the twist they are giving his character. He's not the old masked Kane who would just destroy and leave. He gives me the feeling that he is kind of a bad ass version of the old Kane. The way he talks now differs from the way he used to talk in his promos in the past few years. That bad ass monster persona is totally new to me and I love it. The metal mask and the new leather mask design help a lot in delivering this vibe.
Of course, me loving the promo and the new Kane character do not mean that I approve of this feud taking place right now. This feud would have been great if it would start right after Wrestlemania, after Cena defeats The Rock in a controversial series of events, which leave us wondering whether it was intentional or not. Then he would start a feud with Kane where he makes the full heel turn by siding with Kane at the end against whoever Kane's opponent will have been at Wrestlemania.

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

I feel as though their making the Cena heel turn way to obvious. I don't think he's turning full fledge heel until after Mania. The thing that's catching me off guard here is that their many way you can have his match against Rock go but It would make sense for him to turn heel after he beats Rock(rock finally give him respect) and fans still hate him but they can't have Rock lose in his own hometown at Mania can they?

 

[JarredDClements]

In the back of my mind, I just think its a way to make more people like Cena. By acknowledging the "Cena sucks" chants, they are embracing it, and making money off of it. Maybe their plan is that if they tell the fans to chant "Cena sucks", that maybe they won't do it as much. But then again, when the Rock comes back, they are gonna boo the hell out of Cena. I wish the chants would get to him, and he finally snap and at least show an edgier version of his character.

 

[mrbreezy]

this is what i wanna see...this fued go until the royal rumble..and when cena and kane are in the rumble together they meet and like everyone backs off..and then after they start fighting the next entrant in the rumble is the undertaker and comes in and defends cena and eliminates kane which can set up the undertaker vs. kane at WM28

 

[KoC417]

WWE made 1 big mistake during that promo. They tried to get an audience reaction/catch the audience chanting "let's go Cena, Cena sucks". What they got instead was :1 half asleep kid, 2 people on their cell phones, I think I saw 1 person actually physically saying "who is chanting??" and there were several other people actually LOOKING around confused about where all that noise was coming from.

Now onto the promo- pyro incident set aside, I'm just thankful Cena wasn't 15 feet closer when that mishap happened because that would have no doubt been a tragedy. As much as people hate Cena nobody wants to see him burn to death.

Promo was amazing. The way Kane dragged on his words, and the pure evil/malice he had in his voice was eerie! He is genuinely starting to look/revert back to monster status. I just hope that the WWE doesn't try to fool us with one of those "trance" gimmicks. Would completely kill this whole thing.

 

[The Architect of Anarchy]

The way that Kane came out and addressed Cena didn't look too offensive, it was more like teach Cena a life lesson about hatred. When Cena was stopped from coming to the ring with that pyro effect, he has that holy @*(t look on his face which seemed frightned and as the segment went along, it looked like Cena was actually taking it in instead of getting ready for a fight, which he was minutes ago!

Kane was talking as though he was trying to HELP Cena. Besides, they can't feud cause of Rock as you know and Cena already is in the EC a few weeks away so I don't think it's a feud! Just a storyline on how Cena will counteract the audience's reactions.

So then what is the whole purpose of this storyline

Well, I guess it's to get Cena's respect from the viewer back, as the final two segments of Raw were based on Cena getting some of his rep back! Miz was getting boosed therefore putting cheers on for Cena, as one superstar takes cheers while the other takes boos (the reaction equation of the WWE audience!). I think the use of kane was actually helpful and interesting so I don't think they'll drag this into a match next week or the week after.

What do you think?

 

[JGlass]

Kane wasn't talking like he was trying to help Cena. He was talking like he was trying to corrupt Cena. I once again must nod to NorCal whom pointed out that Kane was playing the role of Darth Vader, trying to bring John Cena over to the dark side. That was an awesome promo, much more psychologically tantalizing than anything the WWE has done in my memory.

As for the purpose of this feud: The purpose of this feud isn't to have Kane and Cena have a series of brutal matches. It's to keep Cena relevant and interesting without putting him through a ton of matches where he could suffer some sort of injury. Fortunately, Kane is a good worker and as far as I know he's never seriously injured anybody, or even himself, but we've seen freak accidents happen in the WWE before, and with the huge WrestleMania payoff just around the corner, it's in the WWE's best interest to keep Cena in tip-top shape.

Expect to see Cena get a one-off match with Kane at Royal Rumble, or maybe have them both wrestle at EC, assuming the WWE wants to keep Cena out of the Raw EC match.

 

[TheBigRedMachine]

I agree, it did sound like Kane was trying to corrupt Cena. The WWE will never do this, but if they used this to turn Cena heel Raw might actually be a little better than it's been lately.

The promo was awesome though regardless of what the point of it was. Kane sounded evil, a lot like he was back in the late 90s/early 00s. Kane may actually be the ass kickin monster he once was again!

 

[Notorious718]

If I didn't know any better, I would've thought I popped in my DVD of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith with all the "embrace the hate" talk. It was like watching Palpatine seduce Anakin to the dark side. I'm not really sure where this feud will eventually end up yet but it's obvious that they're teasing a potential Cena heel turn. I'm very interested to see where they're going from here. The promo was fine and the eventual match between these two should be better.

 

[jsn_since89]

What's annoying me is the LOGIC lost in WWE storylines...

Henry takes out Kane earlier in the year >> Kane returns & attacks Cena?!

As much as I understand they want him as a heel; MAN UP KANE AND "HATE" HENRY!!!

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

What's annoying me is the LOGIC lost in WWE storylines...

Henry takes out Kane earlier in the year >> Kane returns & attacks Cena?!

As much as I understand they want him as a heel; MAN UP KANE AND "HATE" HENRY!!!

I think kane thinks like Michael Myers, he will attack who he feels like attacking. Do not forget kane as done some worse damage than what henry done to kane. Kane knows he as all the power, show has already owned henry. Kane maybe thinking that beast has been well and truly slayed, why beat a dead horse go after better stake

 

[cowpiewi]

He's become smaller through the middle and in the legs. (But the Undertaker got much smaller late in his career.) The set of Kane's jaw does not look like the old Kane. I wish we could get some biometrics so the CIA could settle this for me. Paul Bearer could help identify the fella for me.

 

[Budvig_Lorga]

...at some point before Wrestlemania, Kane will drag Cena under the ring like he tried to do to Ryder.....Cena will disappear for a few weeks. Everyone will be wondering "where's Cena". Cena will make a return with a new and diabolical image (thanks to Kane's corruption), clearly completeing a heel turn

 

[Aeon Mathix]

This storyline reminds me of Anakin Skywalker from Star Wars. Cena being Anakin and Kane being like Darth Sidious. I know I am a nerd but that is the first initial reaction I got from Kane's promo. I think it's awesome to be honest. It's like this storyline will go to Cena finally realizing the "power" he could have from going to the dark side and telling the people they have held him back. Thanking the haters for letting him "see the darkness" so to speak.

I am probably getting ahead of myself there, but I am loving this storyline. I can see Cena/Kane at the Rumble and maybe even heading into Elimination Chamber before Rock gets back. Cena turning heel before Mania is a BIG stretch, but stranger things have happened in WWE before.

 

[gwarren]

I was watching Superstars the other day and when the Raw Rebound came on I noticed something. During the main event of Raw, when Big Show hit Henry with a chair, if you look at Cena, he looks shocked.

Maybe WWE are trying to make everyone around Cena "embrace the hate" until he is the only true "good guy" left. If you carefully watch the whole part of that segment you'll notices a few things:

1) Show's attackt was very agresssive and was fuelled by hate, he could've beat Henry in the ring rather than DQ

2) Cena looks very shocked and disappointed and upset at Show's attack

3) Show remains angry as he leaves ringside

4) Cena is the only one who reacts in such an noticable way to Show's DQ

Add them all up and it looks like the storyline is going down the road of everyone slowly turning on Cena until he has no-one left. Maybe Ryder will be attacked again tonight and he will turn on Cena because he feels Cena is putting him at risk.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

I was watching Superstars the other day and when the Raw Rebound came on I noticed something. During the main event of Raw, when Big Show hit Henry with a chair, if you look at Cena, he looks shocked.

Maybe WWE are trying to make everyone around Cena "embrace the hate" until he is the only true "good guy" left. If you carefully watch the whole part of that segment you'll notices a few things:

1) Show's attackt was very agresssive and was fuelled by hate, he could've beat Henry in the ring rather than DQ

2) Cena looks very shocked and disappointed and upset at Show's attack

3) Show remains angry as he leaves ringside

4) Cena is the only one who reacts in such an noticable way to Show's DQ

Add them all up and it looks like the storyline is going down the road of everyone slowly turning on Cena until he has no-one left. Maybe Ryder will be attacked again tonight and he will turn on Cena because he feels Cena is putting him at risk.

Show had every reason to attack Henry and BE angry. It was Henry who injured Show. It was Henry who knocked him out after Show won the title, causing DB to cash it in, so in reality it was Henry who cost Show the title. Show was just taking some anger out on Henry. He didn't need to beat him in the ring, what would THAT prove?

Then again, if he would've pinned Henry, the teams would've been even and that wouldn't work to make the finale happen. Show could;ve just taken that entire team out himself anyway.

Cena being shock and disappointed was due to Show eliminating himself, thus creating a 2 on 1. Show lost focus of the match, thats why Cena was disappointed.

Cena was the only one to react because thats all you saw. Ryder was beat up in the corner and Swagger was off camera. They had to make it look like SuperCena was there to save the day in the end.

 

[stephenjpunk317]

So now we're entering the fourth week of Kane coming out and doing stuff with Cena, but I still can't see where it will go. I guess that can be a good thing because I am sure the complaint could be it's too predictable. The only thing I still see happening is Cena overcomes the hate thing, and ends up with the respect handshake with the Rock after their Wrestlemania match. Almost like Hogan and the rock at the end of their wrestlemania match.

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

So now we're entering the fourth week of Kane coming out and doing stuff with Cena, but I still can't see where it will go. I guess that can be a good thing because I am sure the complaint could be it's too predictable. The only thing I still see happening is Cena overcomes the hate thing, and ends up with the respect handshake with the Rock after their Wrestlemania match. Almost like Hogan and the rock at the end of their wrestlemania match.

I have said this, if cena is booked to beat rock, then I could see cena losing to kane has a way of cena falling further down the line of not been able to handle the big matches. More doubt creeps into his mind, making the rock vs cena even more of a knife edge

 

[CleverName51]

(Mods- not sure of this belongs here or in old school wrestling since it's a combination of both...)

So, early on Raw on Monday night, Kane cut a long promo basically telling Cena to embrace hate instead of Rise Above Hate

This reminds me of a certain former gimmick, Sean O'Haire as the Devil's Advocate

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/GISnWeaVu3A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/4XDtXARTXwA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sfnOU1gkeZY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]

Note: if the you tube vids didn't embed: here's a link to 3 Sean O'Haire promos grouped together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GISnWeaVu3A




Kane has been using a lot of this logic on Cena in his Embrace Hate campaign.

here's Kane from Monday: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bo375P6md8

(pay attention from about 2:25 on)

[YOUTUBE]<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9bo375P6md8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>[/YOUTUBE]



Now Glenn Jacobs has been one solid performer during his WWE career...he's done many different aspects in the grand scheme of his Big Red Machine gimmick



anyway, here are my questions


1: Who do you prefer as the Devil's Advocate, Kane or Sean O'Haire


-I prefer O'haire, Kane would have been great in this gimmick in 2003 right after his mask was pulled off, he was near the top in terms of pops back then, it should have translated to multiple WHC reigns in 03-04 when HHH was destroying WcW instead...the only problem is, too long has passed for Kane, it makes less sense to me for him to do this now


2: What are your favorite parts of this gimmick?

-The idea that this could work as a psychotic heel who leads a stable, have the "leader" get a cult like following, really push the aspects of cult-think with it, (think SES, but WAY creepier, or Ministry but without the super natural aspect). Also a strong suit, Kane (and O'Haire) were both believable to me as monster heels, both are strong large men who can beat down those they perceive as weak. For instance, Evan Bourne should not have this gimmick, but he doesn't have the right look to pull it off

3: How would you improve this gimmick?

I really can't think of a way to improve it, other than, as I alluded to above, make a stable out of it.


4: other comments...

hey-it's a forum, I want to hear other ideas as well

 

[Mr. HD]

Let me start by saying that these characters, although they seem alike, are very different IMO.

Kane's issue is that since he's such a dark character, he believes that Hate exists in everybody.

Let me apply this to a game of mine; Kingdom Hearts. Kane reminds me of Ansem from the first Kingdom Hearts game, and the Hate he keeps talking about reminds me of Darkness. Darkness exists in every Heart and instead of fighting it to make room for the Light, they should embrace it and accept it, or else it will just eat away at their Heart.

That's just my two cents.

Sean O' Haire character was totally different. He was the Devil's Advocate character. He was the voice in your head telling you to do what you weren't supposed to, like cheat on your wife, not go to Church, not paying taxes, like in all his promos. But at the same time, his explanations would sound so fluent, that you would almost believe it and do it.


1: Who do you prefer as the Devil's Advocate, Kane or Sean O'Haire

I like O' Haire's gimmick better. I really think this is one WWE REALLY missed the boat on. The dude convinced Brian Kendrick to streak around the arena and for Dawn Marie to flash the audience. His character could've benefited from a stable of mindless drones to do what he wants, convincing them it was the right thing to do, when it really wasn't.

His character really fucked with your mind. It was like, you know you're not supposed to do this, but they way he would make it sound, it was like you HAD to do it.

He was the like the little Devil on your shoulder, opposite the Angel, filling your head with bad thoughts, manipulating you into believing that it's the right thing to do.


2: What are your favorite parts of this gimmick?

I like Kane's gimmick right now because it's doing what it should be doing and getting Cena less boos and more cheers, resulting in a change in his character. I think I noticed this last night. There were hardly any boos for Cena, but then again, the Crowd sucked balls.

It's also showing a new, Darker, more Twisted version of Kane. It's like he won't rest until all these people embrace the Hate within themselves instead of it coming out later. He does have a point, everybody has Hate within, but doesn't like to embrace it because it would be wrong, but the more they prolong it, the worse it will be when it finally comes out. I think that's what's happening to Cena.



3: How would you improve this gimmick?


Like I said before, O' Haire's gimmick could benefit from a stable of people he recruited himself. Convincing them that coming along with him would make their own lives better, when in Reality, he's using them to do the heavy work, while he works his way to the top. It's almost Genius.

Kane's gimmick is just fine. I really like what they've done with it. It would be pretty cool to get a female under his wing. It's RARE that we see a Dark, Twisted Female Heel in Wrestling anymore. At least I'd think it'd be cool for Kane to have a little stable himself.


4: other comments...

Um...good thread? Lol. But something I did think about it is how cool it would be for characters of these two personalities to join up together. I think it'd be pretty interesting. The Devil's Advocate, The Dark Leader, the female goth, and a fourth person to round out the stable. It'd be really dark and really creepy.

 

[thebarber]

Sean O'Haire was a flop in 2003, Kane is as over now as he ever has been.
These characters are nothing alike, in my opinion.
Sean OHaire could have been anything, but politics and his own arrogant attitude got him released by Vince.

 

[wrestlingfanatic98]

Let me start by saying that these characters, although they seem alike, are very different IMO.

Kane's issue is that since he's such a dark character, he believes that Hate exists in everybody.

Let me apply this to a game of mine; Kingdom Hearts. Kane reminds me of Ansem from the first Kingdom Hearts game, and the Hate he keeps talking about reminds me of Darkness. Darkness exists in every Heart and instead of fighting it to make room for the Light, they should embrace it and accept it, or else it will just eat away at their Heart.

That's just my two cents.

Sean O' Haire character was totally different. He was the Devil's Advocate character. He was the voice in your head telling you to do what you weren't supposed to, like cheat on your wife, not go to Church, not paying taxes, like in all his promos. But at the same time, his explanations would sound so fluent, that you would almost believe it and do it.


1: Who do you prefer as the Devil's Advocate, Kane or Sean O'Haire

I like O' Haire's gimmick better. I really think this is one WWE REALLY missed the boat on. The dude convinced Brian Kendrick to streak around the arena and for Dawn Marie to flash the audience. His character could've benefited from a stable of mindless drones to do what he wants, convincing them it was the right thing to do, when it really wasn't.

His character really fucked with your mind. It was like, you know you're not supposed to do this, but they way he would make it sound, it was like you HAD to do it.

He was the like the little Devil on your shoulder, opposite the Angel, filling your head with bad thoughts, manipulating you into believing that it's the right thing to do.


2: What are your favorite parts of this gimmick?

I like Kane's gimmick right now because it's doing what it should be doing and getting Cena less boos and more cheers, resulting in a change in his character. I think I noticed this last night. There were hardly any boos for Cena, but then again, the Crowd sucked balls.

It's also showing a new, Darker, more Twisted version of Kane. It's like he won't rest until all these people embrace the Hate within themselves instead of it coming out later. He does have a point, everybody has Hate within, but doesn't like to embrace it because it would be wrong, but the more they prolong it, the worse it will be when it finally comes out. I think that's what's happening to Cena.



3: How would you improve this gimmick?


Like I said before, O' Haire's gimmick could benefit from a stable of people he recruited himself. Convincing them that coming along with him would make their own lives better, when in Reality, he's using them to do the heavy work, while he works his way to the top. It's almost Genius.

Kane's gimmick is just fine. I really like what they've done with it. It would be pretty cool to get a female under his wing. It's RARE that we see a Dark, Twisted Female Heel in Wrestling anymore. At least I'd think it'd be cool for Kane to have a little stable himself.


4: other comments...

Um...good thread? Lol. But something I did think about it is how cool it would be for characters of these two personalities to join up together. I think it'd be pretty interesting. The Devil's Advocate, The Dark Leader, the female goth, and a fourth person to round out the stable. It'd be really dark and really creepy.

This is the kane that we have been waiting for ages, for me he should have been transformed to his mask gimmick again in 2006 because his unmask run ran its course in 2006. And what makes his current gimmick even more scary no question it is the mask. Kane talked in the summer about exercising his humanity, almost like what he looks like now is kane's soul, its his essence. Not even 2003 during his unmasking was he even close to the terror he is doing now, maybe a few weeks ago it was good but kane really is now turning up the heat.

Kane is unpredictable and very scary now, and I do believe his reinvention will not lose steam like when he unmasked in 2003. But I do disagree about kane almost creating a stable, kane hates everyone and everything. And like I said if cena is booked to defeat rock I do see kane coming out on top in this feud, to pull cena down further into the abyss.

This current kane gimmick now, is actually the way his mind is set is of someone very deluded, which this does make him very unpredictable on what he has in store for anyone now. He as widened his gaze, and targeted 3 PPL now, with ryder injured kane could be targeting eve to get to cena now, since kane as put ryder on the self if you go by reports.

But like I said you add his remasking and making him a off screen presence makes this kane the best kane since 97