**MERGED** All Kane & Cena Angle Discussion- KEEP IT ALL IN HERE

[Nate DaMac]

People are so dense. "He should have came back and just destroyed everyone." "Kane never need should have talked." "Michael Bay is the best director ever." Seriously guys, open your fucking minds for half a second. It really seems that all you need to do in order to please the masses is fuck shit up!! What possibly could have been gained from having Kane return and just mow through everyone until someone beat him? Matter of fact, didn't we just see that with Mark Henry? Everyone accuses the WWE of having lazy writers and the second they stray away from the norm all of the idiots lose their shit. Calm the fuck down, you twits.

This isn't the old "Just give it some time" bit from the guy who refuses to admit an angle is stupid. This angle actually does present some interesting thought. For anyone with a third of a brain cell, anyway. Here's a quote from JGlass, who is better than all of you, explaining in a nutshell what kind of shit we could be looking at.

I would love to see Kane take a less physical role in the feud, but to have him just come out to mess with Cena. If Cena loses a match, Kane will be there. If Cena comes out looking like a fool, Kane will be there. If the audience starts chanting Cena sucks, Kane will be there. Then maybe we'll see John lose it and go vicious on Kane with a chair or something, and Kane will enjoy it. Shit, I'm giving myself goosebumps.

 

[steveh0481]

I am also in the minority that absolutely loved this promo from Kane. It really has me thinking where WWE can go with this. I know there are gonna be turds that come on here saying they know exactly where WWE is going with this but facts are that everything is speculation. I'm glad that WWE didnt bring back a one-dimensional Kane who didnt speak and just ran through people. This promo with Cena was honestly the highlight of the night for me. Having Cena stand at the top of the ramp hearing the mixed comments and watching him react was a great way to close out the last RAW of 2011.

 

[Dr. IaN]

The promo was awesome. I respect other's opinion, but how could you have not liked it? It trigger a very slow Cena heel turn, it ended with John pondering the thought. I can't wait for the next RAW. With Brodus Clay and the 1/2/12 guy, maybe they can make it even bigger with a heel turn. I know I'll be watching.

 

[Helmut Spargel]

Really enjoyed the promo and am pleasantly surprised the WWE is allowing Kane to mock the anti-hate shirt and by extension the anti-bullying campaign.

 

[scootytang]

for me as soon as kane started talking it ruined the monster look that i think the wwe was trying to go for, but i kind of hope that maybe this will be heel cena push where he flips out because he is fed up with trying to be a good guy and no one appreciates it

 

[ULTRASTARZZ]

I liked it. We all know the previous masked Kane character and the unmasked Kane character. This new incarnation needed something different. A monster not only physically, but also mentally. Kane is all about hatred, anger, rage, and it is nice that he helps giving John Cena a new dimension to his character.

 

[avi01]

the idea behind was good I guess but the execution terrible. For one, it kinda ruin Kane`s return, I like many said already, having him talk was a mistake. Besides he was quite uninspired. But the fans were the good part here, they played along. I guess the promo itself was not good but the bigger picture here is quite interesting.

 

[sanefan_har]

It wasn't the best promo from Kane, but I barely doubt that this diminshes his monster image. A monster is known for beating the crap out of you, so it doesn't matter if he talks or not.

As for Cena's heel turn, I'm looking forward to it. If it means they'll give him more moves in his setlist, I'm in. I really am. Plus it will be a great change for his image and WWE can move forward with Ryder, Punk and other faces(whether i like them or not).


But then again there will be IWC dumasses claiming "Oh I saw this coming along i'm such a smartass yak yak yaketty yak yak yak I'm awesome and I know it ".

 

[Brewski]

I don't know what the guys on page 1 on this thread are talking about, that was the best promo i've ever seen Kane do. I don't understand why anyone would want him to be a silent monster. What would happen, a month of random attacks leading to a shitty ppv match with no story or build? I don't agree with a cena heel turn before Wrestlemania, but God damn have they been setting this up slow and proper. This is another stepping stone to the advancement of Cena's character.

Roddy Piper got this whole ball rolling a whole month ago about how the fan's are turning on Cena. Bringing Kane into the mix like they have has created a cerebral, intelligent angle that brings out a lot of emotion in the overall product. Kane in the past has been an embodiment of evil, pain, and most importantly, hate. He came in on the storyline that he hated his brother and wanted revenge. His early and most notable years have involved him as a burnt monster. In recent years this fell apart, Kane started talking, became a face, started talking, and lost his mask. Since then he hasn't been the same and both he and the WWE fans know that. This new return brings Kane back to his masked roots. He's embraced the hate he was putting off and is a monster again. Seeing Cena struggle with the fan's opinions about him, it makes sense for Kane to tell Cena that he should embrace his hate and use it to his advantage. WWE really couldn't have picked a better crowd than Chicago to do this in too, they knew there would be a LOT of cena hate in the audience. Overall this is a great promo and a great angle. Something memorable and so much better than what could have just been another BS heel turn.

 

[SomeAreSet]

I liked it. The segment was pretty good. It didn't build Kane up to be this one dimensional monster who was going after Cena just because. They had a logical explanation for him attacking Cena,and I liked the fact that it was an ideological difference between them. It makes the feud so much more complex than it would have been if Kane came out and said "Why did I attack Cena? Because I.AM.A.MONSTER!!!"

Better yet,he's trying to turn Cena against the fans. So it's not a straight up "I don't like you,let's fight," angle,it's a "Your opinion is wrong,so I will have to destroy you unless you come over to my side" angle,which takes things to a whole new level intellectually. I'm wondering if Cena's going to be visibly affected by the "CENA SUCKS!" chants from now on,and what he's going to do when it gets to him. If he takes the pent up rage inside him and unleashes it,then he's going to do borderline typically heelish things (I say typically because Cena's being heelish in a non-typical way right now: antagonizing the fans who hate him by playing up the superhero face gimmick). On the other hand,if he tries to shrug it off,he might go on a losing streak because his head and his heart won't be in it. Cena's character seems to be heading into a new direction,and I'm more interested in this feud than I am about Punk/Johnny Ace,plus,this may be the closest Cena will ever come to turning heel.

Unless,you know,creative decides that Cena will stand by his ideals and fight Kane without some sort of inner turmoil and struggle,in which case,fuck them all.

P.S. I hate how fans are saying "THEY DESTROYED KANE'S BUILD AS A MONSTER!" Why does Kane have to be a "monster"? If he came out and attacked Cena week after week without a word of explanation,you people would be sick of it and demand an explanation. Kane can still be a monster heel,albeit an intellectual one a la Hannibal Lecter. I like this Kane,there are more layers to this character than the one in 1997-2001.The scariest heels are the smart ones.If the heel is just 300 pounds of muscle and not much else,then there's really nothing a sledgehammer or a steel chair can't solve.This Kane is both smart and fucking huge. He reminds me of Bane from the Batman comics.

 

[shiznarz]

and I think it will all boil down and he will turn at WM, think about it Piper telling him to embrace the hate, rock telling him everyone hates him, and now Kane telling him to listen to the hate. IT IS HAPPENING!

 

[leydier]

A lot of what you people are saying is really blowing my mind. I respect that everyone has their opinion, but, c'mon. SERIOUSLY. First of all this is the most interesting thing to happen with not only Kane, but also John Cena in years. And yall wanna blow it up because Kane spoke too slow or too soon. Jesus f'n........... Are you SERIOUS!? You act like Kane never spoke when the mask was on in the first place. He did. Often.

I been watching this crap for more then 20 years and saw a lot of great stuff and a lot of dull stuff that does not make sence. Somebody said "what was with the pyro in front of John Cena?" First off have you ever seen the lightning vs fire battle The Undertaker had with Kane years ago? Look it up. Kanes "supernatural" fire power. Thats what that was. He thrust his arms towards the stage, the pyro ignited stopping Cena in his tracks. Then followed that by telling Cena not to come to the ring.

Seriouly who else could bring out the inner heel inside John Cena? This is the best way they could have gone about it.

Stupid marks.

Bloody hell!!!

Dude, I couldn't agree more. I've been watching for nearly 23 years, and let me tell you - this was well done. They're building Cena for the heel turn, I personally loved how Raw went off the air. The look in Cena's face, the slow head turn, it made you really wonder...

All the "You suck" chants, they're finally getting to him. Kane will help him realize that and turn him heel. I don't know why everyone is bashing Kane, he delivered the promo well. I think they should of kept the lights dim a tad and that would of helped the mood.

Anyway, great promo overall, and Kane will soon turn Cena heel. Great Idea, good concept, good stuff.

 

[Ellye]

I'm glad that Kane talked, and that there was a great story to be told.

Being a monster just for the sake of it would be dull and boring by now. Instead, we now know Kane's agenda and his reasons. And it makes sense.

This is all being carefully played out. I was never so curious about Cena's character before, so I guess this is already a success.

 

[MizMark11]

So the IWC complains whenever WWE rehashes storylines and characters, but as soon as Kane starts to talk they complain that he's not silent like in 1997. Characters have to evolve. Just because Kane didn't forget how to talk while he was out doesn't mean he can't kick your ass or destroy anyone like a monster could.

I liked the promo and I believe Cena will turn soon. It's getting exciting and I really can't wait to see what happens next week.

 

[Enoch V2]

I loved the promo. It was a perfect way to grow the character uniquely. Now we get a good understanding of the idea of hate, and what it means in this whole angle. I think that those who listen to each word appreciate its meaning.

 

[#1HEEL]

I personally liked the segment alot. I think people are over analysing things. You cant go down the, they ruined monster kanes run thing. Kane is Kane regardless of that mask, all today did was add character to his current persona.

He talked somewhat like Undertaker does with precise meaning.

It was a very crowd interactive segment, and it made it seem like a tween was on the cards. I think it's effective. Cena fueds with Kane but ever so gradually moves towards being a heel, meaning he will start beating down the rock pre wrestlemania, and then fully heel turn. Which will be excellent.

 

[JGlass]

I'm glad to see that there are quite a few people here that enjoyed the promo, and a tip of the cap to Nate for the kind words.

As for the promo itself... that was great stuff. I was talking to NorCal during Raw and he pointed out that Kane is playing the role of Darth Vader: trying to bring John Cena over to the dark side by embracing hatred and negative emotions. And he's dead on, Kane can get into Cena's head without physicality, all he needs are his words. That said, he's made it quite clear that he can still kick ass if he needs to.

The more subtle Kane is in John Cena's career over the next few weeks, the better. Kane breaks Cena through torturing him mentally, not physically. Nobody can beat Cena in the physical arena, that's been made clear, but mentally? That's a show we haven't been treated to yet. I'm not sure it will lead to a heel Cena, but this will definitely lead to a different, angrier, meaner John Cena.

 

[multiverseman.com]

What's this minority stuff?

Seems like most people liked it. I certainly did. I agree with an earlier poster, best Kane promo ever.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

so as i was done with raw this week there was only ONE question after Kane´s promo on John Cena on Raw.....WHY would mask Kane give a shit if the fans love or hate John Cena?

Masked Kane is a monster. He loves nothing more than reveling in turmoil and chaos of other's misfortunes. He wants to destroy other by any means, including mentally. He would love to see the most face face of the WWE embrace his negative emotions, it's what he gets off on.

on top of that the promo ran too long, was too slow.... kane´s tone didnt fit and the way he executed seemed just wrong....

Five or six minutes I think, not particularly long but it did the job.

what did you thought about the Kane adressing his attacks on John Cena?

They are still planting those seeds that suggest something about the character of John Cena is going to undergo a significant change in the upcoming weeks or months. I'll admit, it was a bit of a strange way to go about continuing the work of Roddy Piper a month or so ago, but the end product is what is important, and the way they closed the show, was the way they needed to close the show, to keep people asking themselves the question.

'what did you thought', lolzies.

 

[akrassikauda]

Loved it absolutely loved it. Kane built the drama with the promo,Cena being stopped from going to the ring and being forced to hear what someone had to say was really good. I think the naysayers missed that one,usually he'll say some love me some hate etc. The crowd response was awesome, and the commentators played their part by not talking and let Kane and the crowd do the talking that's good drama and a excellent way to end the show. What if it begins is not only a big debut/return but also that night heel Cena begins?

 

[Da Muddaship]

This promo was awesome. With one promo, Kane established himself as a tweener who's subject to breaking off ANYBODY with an ass-kicking, face or heel. His words reminded me of vintage Jake The Snake with a large, intimidating physical presence, mentally breaking down Cena like a Derrick Rose crossover. He channeled the best elements of his '08-09 Smackdown solo promos when he was pursuing guys like Mysterio and Edge.

Remember, Rock-Cena is supposed to headline the biggest WM of all time. Think about it, in the Super Bowl, who would you rather see: The Saints vs the Texans, two good teams, but hard to wholeheartedly root against? Or the Packers vs the Patriots, America's latest favorite team against a team not necessarily loved much outside of New England? Everybody loves a good movie when you have the ultimate good guy with an attitude (Rock) vs the ultimate unbeatable bad guy (SuperCena in a black cape). And in Rock's hometown, no less? That's 'G. I. Joe', big-picture, get-your-popcorn-ready entertainment, baby. And it'll solidify Cena's new status as one of the biggest heels of all time, beating the beloved symbol of the attitude era back to Hollywood.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

I loved it! I love how they are using different people to show Cena that the majority of the fans are booing him. They are telling him that he is blind and doesn't want to see what is truly going on.

At least Kane didn't go out there with a voice box and talk like a robot. Kane is allowed to be a monster and talk. Its no diferent than when Taker first came in and he was a mysterious character who had other people do his talking, until one day he opens his mouth and words came out.

Kane talking shows one thing and one thing only...HE IS HUMAN! Gone are the days where we are made to believe that Kane is this figure who has been hidden all his life and was burned over 3/4 of his body.

Why did everyone hate it so much? Because now that Kane is back to being a monster he isn't allowed to be able to talk? Kane is playing the role of a mentor. WWE is SLOOOOOOOWLY turning Cena. Kanes words mixed with Cena's emotion last night was great. Last night wasn't Just about Kane's promo. Cena played his part of realizing that its actually happening.

I dont think however, that 1/2/12 is for a Cena heel turn. Why would they promote that? Wouldn't it be more of a shock that, yeah we know its coming, but OMG Cena just gave a verbal middle finger to the fans! I would rather be shocked by being blindsided when it happens, than knowing when it will happen.

 

[Mustang Sally]

It could have been much better if they didn't do that promo.

If they didn't do the promo, it would be negating the whole point behind the "new" Kane. The man portrayed as a monster has always been about the physical damage he could wreak on opponents. Sure, he might throw in a few ominous words here and there, but his function was solely to physically destroy his adversary.

Now, it's different. During his last world title run, WWE found, to their surprise and delight, that Glenn Jacobs can talk. In fact, he did it so effectively that he created a new kind of monster persona, and now we're about to see it in full bloom.

He will still dismantle people in the ring; of course he will. But added to that is the psychological aspect of a monster who works on your head even as he's beating on it. (there's a phrase, huh?) It figures that his first victim is the most popular man in the company; the guy whose stage persona is so well established that it just begs for someone to mess with it. John Cena is the ultimate good guy, but so many fans despise him (illogically, I think) that the company is going to run with it and use Kane to get Cena to start doubting his image and his fans.

It can go either of two ways: Cena stays good and winds up destroying Kane at a PPV........ or Cena goes bad, having been mind-controlled by Kane into becoming the baddest of the bad guys. Personally, I'd love to see the latter. There's been so much speculation about him turning heel; I think Kane's plan is the way to get it done. After awhile, we might see them fighting side by side.

Now we know the reason for the company issuing those anti-Cena shirts. It all feeds into Kane's new program.

It should be an interesting few months.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I wasn't focused enough on the segment to really comment effectively on the execution but it seemed a little too dragged out and the crowd didn't play along as well as one would hope (damn kids, soccer moms and Slyfox696). However I love the story being told and Kane is probably WWE's best change agent for this type of tale. I don't know where it is going but I am interested. I won't say Cena is definitely going heel because we saw a similar storyline with Nexus and we all know how that turned out.

They could in the end somehow connect this story to the Nexus story since we did have a connection of the Nexus helping Kane to bury the UT way back when but I highly doubt they will bring that back.

Like I said WWE has me interested but I would have expected this type of story to come after WM. They don't have much time to play this out before we are 100% Rocky-Cena consumed. We will see.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I thought this promo was done very well. Masked Kane was a character that a lot of the Cena haters have wanted to see come back, so it would make sense for him to attack Cena one week and then do this promo the next. It added more layers to this feud. It's no longer just "Oh, look Kane's back. He attacks Cena for some random reason". Now there is a reason behind Kane's actions and Cena has even more frustration to deal with in his haters now having someone starting their chants for them like Kane did last night. I liked it because now the feud is no longer filler due to Kane making it personal in this promo. The final Raw image of the year being Cena trying to ignore the CENA SUCKS chants from the haters was a nice touch.