How Racist and/or Sexist is Dagger Dias?

[George Steele's Barber]

As for the Womens Ladder match post, I never said they should never have one because they are women, that would indeed be sexist. I said I was unsure if they are ready for one as a division. The Bliss/Bayley/Banks match suggested is one I wouldn't mind seeing myself later in the future.

You call them girls. You suggest men should represent them. You say it is too dangerous. How stupid do you find these women that they could not have a match without limiting the danger?

If the talent is not there to put on a competent match that is one thing. But if you are worried about the "girls getting hurt so men should do the job for them so they can have a pretty purple case" then you are being incredibly shortsighted and offensive.

What has to change about the women in the WWE that would make it safe to have a ladder match besides growing a penis?

 

[Ty Burna]

He's not racist or sexist. He's blind. Sasha is a 5.5? She's no higher than a 1.

** Great wrestler, but butterface to the max.

The fuck is wrong with you son? I think y'all need your vision checked. Repeatedly.

 

[Dan Severn's Moustache]

Concerning's Dagger's recent post that GSB highlighted, while I don't necessarily agree with his core point in stating that multiple women in a ladder match is a bad idea, I do see where he is coming from.

Factually, women and men have a vast number of differences with regards to genetic make-up. Men, on average, are far more likely to be taller than women, and with regards to their full potential; men are more likely to reach a higher echelon of athletic excellence. This is why men's sports are generally more promoted than women's sports and generate higher profit; because with regards to the pinnacle of their physical form, men are generally more fit than women, and capable of performing at a higher level. This is not sexism; this is a fact. Yes, there are exceptions to this rule, but exceptions do not disprove a trend.

With wrestling however, due to its semi-realistic nature (less realistic than sports, but more realistic than scripted entertainment, such as dramas), you have a degree of leniency in what can be presented to your audience. You are still bound to certain regulations that must be obeyed in order to maintain the integrity of the product. However, the script allows for many possibilities unheard of for normal sports, which is where the term sports entertainment comes from.

In the case of the multiple woman ladder match, beauty is in the eye of the beholder; there are perspectives to look at it from. While I disagree with Dagger in that I think women are capable of carrying a legitimate and safe ladder match, I don't think Dagger is sexist for holding this position, because his position of the match being dangerous does have some factual backing to it; it's subjective from person to person, sure, but it's certainly not sexist.

Although I honestly don't see the necessity for a female Money In The Bank at all; it's a much smaller division and there is enough substance to the women's product as is; at least, compared to the men's larger division, which equals more time.

 

[klunderbunker]

What you mean is, 'there is no way I can argue against this without appearing to condone sexism.' Thinking that a woman's attractiveness should affect her job is sexist - remember we are not talking about 'a look' in the wrestling sense, which is a completely valid discussion, we are talking about Dagger rating the quality of pro wrestlers based on how much he wants to bang them. That is sexist, and to deny that it is sexist is pandering to sexism.



There's a big difference between saying 'I don't want my daughter to date a black guy' and lynching one.

No, I mean going with the extremes of "you're either this or that" is how a simpleton and/or a child thinks. Or in the case of the people in this thread, people who feel the need to make everything some big cry for social justice because in their minds there is no such thing as a middle ground. Which, again, is the way a child thinks and a far too simplistic way of looking at any issue.

 

[Stone Cold Tea]

Bar Room lol

 

[ABMorales787]

I wonder if a woman did this for the male wrestlers she'd be acussed of being sexist.

 

[Coco]

I already said race had nothing to do with it.

Your inability to appreciate the implications of the things you're writing doesn't mean those things aren't there. A well-intentioned person can harbour feelings of sexism and racism which they aren't even aware of.

Open your mind, Dagger. Learn a little. About life and about yourself.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I wonder if a woman did this for the male wrestlers she'd be acussed of being sexist.

1. Roman Reigns.

Seriously. How is anyone THAT physically perfect.

Next part, not aimed at you.

Women DO do this. It's just not as obvious because we're on a male dominated forum. I'd be willing to bet if we had a more equal male/female poster ratio, this thread would exist more than once. Also, on my attractiveness list, most black wrestlers would be lower down because I generally don't find them attractive. Which is not racist.

Regarding the original post, I don't think Dagger is racist or sexist, I just think he didn't use his brain, and used his 'attractiveness scale' when it was completely unnecessary. People have preferences, but that preference doesn't mean an individual is a better or worse wrestler because of it, and we shouldn't use it as an indicator. That was where Dagger went wrong, as opposed to whatever 'ism' we're currently championing.

 

[Coco]

I wonder if a woman did this for the male wrestlers she'd be acussed of being sexist.

It absolutely would be sexist. Of course it would come under less scruitiny because it doesn't reinforce decades of regressive bullshit that women have endured in comparison I men. So... context helps.

Ranking someone's professional standing partially based on your desire to copulate with them is always wrong. Are you being intentionally dense?

 

[Coco]

1. Roman Reigns.

Seriously. How is anyone THAT physically perfect.

Poor Shawn.

 

[HBK-aholic]

Poor Shawn.

He's #2. 9.5/10

 

[nwocongo]

Wait just a minute here..... Women can be sexist

 

[Tastycles]

I never said that. Just because you want to interpret it that way doesn't make it true. You can find someone attractive without "wanting to bang Them"

Ok. You rated a woman's attractiveness to you as part of her ability to do her job. Maybe your objectification of women wasn't sexual, I apologise.

No, I mean going with the extremes of "you're either this or that" is how a simpleton and/or a child thinks. Or in the case of the people in this thread, people who feel the need to make everything some big cry for social justice because in their minds there is no such thing as a middle ground. Which, again, is the way a child thinks and a far too simplistic way of looking at any issue.

The fact that you clearly don't understand what I meant whilst trying to insult my intelligence is par for the course by now, so I'll leave it.

 

[klunderbunker]

Ok. You rated a woman's attractiveness to you as part of her ability to do her job. Maybe your objectification of women wasn't sexual, I apologise.



The fact that you clearly don't understand what I meant whilst trying to insult my intelligence is par for the course by now, so I'll leave it.

Tells me that I'm part of the problem for not thinking your way and then accuses me of insulting your intelligence. Classic Tasty.

And given that this is your MOST IMPORTANT AND SERIOUS ISSUE EVER of the week, I'll leave it as well.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Welp. This thread went pretty much exactly as I thought it would, right down to the unintentional irony and incredible lack of self-awareness.

 

[Tastycles]

Believe it or not, my most important and serious issue of the week doesn't concern a professional wrestling forum.

 

[Coco]

Welp. This thread went pretty much exactly as I thought it would, right down to the unintentional irony and incredible lack of self-awareness.

Now now -- I had just enough self-awareness to not make the "Is Sasha Banks Hot?" thread we're all clearly yearning for.

 

[Bernkastel]

So he doesn't find black women attractive. No surprise there. The majority of white males in the world don't find black women attractive. I doubt that you find the attractive either JGlass. So Dagger is more attracted to fake tans and dyed hair, that's just his preference. I don't think he's racist or sexist. Maybe just a little bit?

I'll go with a 2/10

I'm white and I find black women attractive.

 

[ABMorales787]

It absolutely would be sexist. Of course it would come under less scruitiny because it doesn't reinforce decades of regressive bullshit that women have endured in comparison I men. So... context helps.

Goddamn penises.

Ranking someone's professional standing partially based on your desire to copulate with them is always wrong. Are you being intentionally dense?

I'm asking if the shoe was on the other foot if you'd go on the same moral tirade. I did get my answer. Thank you.

 

[Coco]

So context doesn't matter to you. Cool beans.

 

[SSJPhenom]

No, I mean going with the extremes of "you're either this or that" is how a simpleton and/or a child thinks. Or in the case of the people in this thread, people who feel the need to make everything some big cry for social justice because in their minds there is no such thing as a middle ground. Which, again, is the way a child thinks and a far too simplistic way of looking at any issue.

That's also the way that a sith thinks. Some of them may be sith.

 

[Blade]

1. Roman Reigns.

Seriously. How is anyone THAT physically perfect.

Reigns has stumpy baby teeth. Total deal-breaker for me.

Now, Dean Ambrose is my kinda guy. I love me some crazy eyes. My brains says 'run', but my genitals say 'get into a position where those eyes will be boring into the back of your head.'

 

[JGlass]

This basically sums up why I find those acting like Dagger is telling the women to get in the kitchen and tend to the young'uns to be blowing this WAY out or proportion:

There's a difference between saying this is how I see things and the second thing you said. Yeah it's bad, but it comes off as much more misguided than demeaning or mean spirited.

So your take here is that what Dagger said is not acceptable, but because it was not said with intentional malice it is not worth drawing attention to?

I'm not trying to be condescending, I'm genuinely asking.

I never said that. Just because you want to interpret it that way doesn't make it true. You can find someone attractive without "wanting to bang them".

If Tasty was to concede this point to you, it would be a moral victory at best. You still assigned a group of women numbers based at least in part on how attractive you found them, and that scale heavily favored white women over women of color. Whether or not you want to unsheathe your +1 dagger of penetration for them, the act of ranking them on hotness and asserting that this ranking somehow affects their ability to perform their job is sexist.

Pot meet kettle. I already said race had nothing to do with it. You on the other hand, have obvious problems with white women and the one with the chip on his shoulder is YOU. And Tastycles too.

There's a few problems with this argument. First of all, it's a straw man argument. I've never stated I have any issues with the high rankings for white women. If you think a white woman's look is excellent, they deserve an excellent ranking. My problem is that you gave every single female that wasn't white a low rank. Asuka's look is one of the reasons she's one of the hottest names in NXT right now, and you gave it a 4/10. Sasha Banks is probably the most recognizable women on the roster with her signature jewelry and pink hair, and you gave her a 5.5. Nia Jax does not just have one of the best looks for a female wrestler, but of all wrestlers in general... and you gave her a 0.5

The second big issue is that you assume that because I support women of color, I am against white women. This further illustrates how racist you are, assuming that because I am pro-women of color, it must make me anti-white women. This is not a George W, "with us or against us," type of deal. This is an all women should be treated equally, deal.

And I don't think it's sexist to not find dark skinned women or non-white women attractive. You can't really help what you find attractive or not, and I don't think you can label a problem that is hardwired to your biology or psychology prejudice. It is, however, prejudiced to consistently rank women of color lower than white women based on appearance.

To be fair I think the truth of the matter is more nuanced. I don't believe Dagger realised his post could be construed as racist/sexist at all, and if he thought he was, he would re-evaluate his stance.

I agree with what JGlass is saying in general, that the concept is objectifying and just an all around Bad Idea, but I don't believe Dagger set out with that express intention and I don't think it's fair to attempt to paint him as some sort of "evil" or continue to villlify him now that the flaws in his actions have been pointed out.

So basically the question in your mind comes down to his unintentional objectification sexist?

The answer is yes. It doesn't matter if the person doing it doesn't know any better. In fact, this is the type of sexism we should be targeting, because it can be cured with education.

Both sides have made their points and given your different views and how you perceive each others' outlooks, you aren't going to reach any kind of compromise or resolution so it's probably better to move on.

But then what's the point of the internet?

Welp. This thread went pretty much exactly as I thought it would, right down to the unintentional irony and incredible lack of self-awareness.

And it's all your fault.

No, I'm outnonsensing your nonsense. If you want to be a social justice warrior then have at it. If you want to troll Dagger have at it. Just do a better job at both.

I thought I was doing a pretty alright job. Do you have any specific critiques.

His post is beyond creepy in its length and effort. Is it sexist? Somewhat, but I've done worse. His Women's MITB is way more sexist. Is it degrading? Meh. Is it racist? Not really. I was going to make a joke that his original username was ****** Dies before changing it to Dagger Dias. That is far more offensive and racist even if my context did matter.

I think SNS broke it down best...

He is claiming people are worse at their profession for their color. He is also saying a woman's value in the industry is strongly based on how much he wants to screw her. How is this even questionable?

But mostly I'm just being ridiculous because most of the time that is my thing.

I like you more when you point your ridiculousness in other directions.

 

[Bernkastel]

Reigns has stumpy baby teeth. Total deal-breaker for me.

Now, Dean Ambrose is my kinda guy. I love me some crazy eyes. My brains says 'run', but my genitals say 'get into a position where those eyes will be boring into the back of your head.'

I bet if you combed back Dean Ambrose's hair the roots probably wouldn't even start mid scalp.

 

[SSJPhenom]

I'm white and I find black women attractive.

That's why I said the word majority. Everyone has their preference. Me, for example, I like women who have a nice carmel looking complexion as opposed to being either all white or black. I guess I like mixed race women. I don't think that makes me racist. I've still seen white and black girls that I find attractive though, but neither is at the top of my preference list.