ECW Triangle Ladder Match: Big Van Vader vs. Andre the Giant vs. The Big Show

Discussion in 'The 3rd Annual Wrestlezone Tournament (2009)' started by Shocky, May 23, 2009.


ECW Ladder Match - Big Van Vader vs Andre the Giant vs Paul Wight

  1. The Mastadon

  2. The 8th Wonder of the World

  3. The Big Show

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Y 2 Jake

    Y 2 Jake Slightly Autistic

    Dec 31, 1969
    Likes Received:
    This, comedy post or not, is logical.

    Vader with his big belly will still have to stretch to grasp towards the bottom of a ladder. As he get's towards the top of the ladder his belly will be pushing into the ladder. If anything it'll be really unstable. He'll also have to climb higher than Big Show because he isn't as tall.
  2. D-Man

    D-Man Gone but never forgotten.

    Jan 26, 2009
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    This, quite possibly, could be the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

    First of all, the Big Show is the same size as Andre at one point in his career. So, if Andre is not "athletic" enough to climb a ladder, we can all welcome the Big Show into the same category.

    Second of all, since when is ANY pro-wrestler NOT athletic, let alone not athletic enough to climb a ladder?!?!? Are you deranged? Pro-wrestlers are some of the most athletic humans on the face of the earth. Saying that they can't climb a ladder is one of the biggest insults you could lay onto one of them.

    So, since you say Vader is the best wrestler of the three, I guess you should change your mind.
  3. Jack-Hammer


    Mar 26, 2009
    Likes Received:
    Andre, while dominant in his day, just seems to be out of his element here. Well, I guess to be honest, all three guys are somewhat out of their element. However, the Big Show and Vader have considerably more experience in gimmick matches than Andre. Hell, Andre himself was the gimmick in all his matches. His overwhelming size and strength were something that simply wasn't seen very often. While it's still not seen very often at all even today, just think of how freaked out some fan would be circa 1970 after seeing him in Madison Square Garden for the first time.

    Andre was someone who, for the most part, could physically dominate just about anybody he wanted to, no matter the circumstances. A good reason why is because most of the guys he went up against had nowhere near the strength to handle him if he'd decided to go stiff on someone. That wouldn't be the case here. Show is someone that's pretty much the same size as Andre when they were both in their prime, so he's simply not gonna overwhelm Show with his size. Vader is is just a strong, stiff mother fucker, always has been. Vader is a powerlifter, he doesn't have the super cut physique of a bodybuilder. He trains to be able to lift tremendous amounts of weight and toss it around if he needs to. I think Vader pulls this off. He has more "hardcore" experience, he's stiff and, to be completely honest, he doesn't seem to give a shit about the safety of his opponents. He doesn't care if he breaks some guy's neck, arm or back. While Show and Andre would be concerned with protecting themselves and each other, I can honestly see Vader picking his moment to deliver a few stiff shots guaranteed to give him the win, or at least keep the two 7 footers stunned long enough for him to get up the ladder.
  4. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

    Mar 29, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Vader in his prime was also managed by arguably the greatest thinking man's heel in wrestling history, Harley Race. Race will be at ringside, and if Show tries to be a pussy and run to the outside to let Vader and Andre destroy each other, rest assured Race will yell that to both men.

    Actually, Race will probably just yell it to Andre, so Andre goes out to throw Show back in, allowing Vader the chance to rest.

    Folks, before I continue this ridiculous conversations about the physics of these three men climbing a ladder (which is markedly similar to, you know, stairs), I want to also remind you that part of this match deals with who is able to punish his opponents to the point of incapacitation, enable them to climb the ladder.

    Now, with Vader, you have a man who beat Cactus Jack within and inch of his life at Halloween Havoc in a Texas Death Match - and won - and whipped Sting so bad in their White Castle of Fear Strap Match that Sting couldn't come back and defeat the big man. You also have a man who took out Yokozuna by placing his leg on the bottom rope and snapping it like a twig using a splash.

    People counter this with the fact that Show was a short-term champion in a watered-down version of the ECW?

    Folks, everything about this match goes in Vader's favor.

    Strength - Even.

    Offense - Vader, for the reasons listed above. I'll take one of the three best powerbombs ever, a middle rope springboard splash and a top rope moonsault from a 450-pounder above a choke slam anyday.

    Defense - Vader. Between surviving (and defeating) Cactus Jack and Sting in brutal gimmick matches, and drawing Stan Hansen after his eye popped out, and the fact that Vader has missed the splash and moonsault before and recovered quickly, Vader will be able to withstand FAR more than the other two men.

    Agility - Vader, of course.

    Intelligence - A three-time WCW World Champion, three-time All-Japan Pro Triple Crown Champion, 3-time New Japan Pro World Champion, and 1-time UWA World Champion (defeating legendary lucha El Canek IN MEXICO) with Harley Race as his manager vs The Big Show, who let himself get knocked out twice by Floyd Mayweather.

    Do I even need to list Vader's PWI and Wrestling Observer Awards?

    1993 - PWI Wrestler of the Year and Wrestling Observer Wrestler of the Year, Best Heel, and Best Maneuver (moonsault).

    1999 - Most Improved Wrestler (the second coming!)

    1996 - Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame Inductee

    Folks, Vader was BUILT for a match like this. Vote for Big Van Vader, or Mr. Feeny will give you detention.
  5. Y 2 Jake

    Y 2 Jake Slightly Autistic

    Dec 31, 1969
    Likes Received:
    Fat people, stairs are always a struggle for them. Half of us could just look at our grandparents for confirmation.

    I didn't really read your post Irish. Not because I didn't want to, although that's partially the reason, but because some of us are busy.

    Although I liked how you conveniently bolded the sentance at the bottom. For me I presume. It says Vader was made for this match. He wasn't though, was he! If fat people were made for ladder matches then the ladders wouldn't crumple under the weight of a sweaty Kofi Kingston. All in all, more hyperbole.
  6. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

    Mar 29, 2007
    Likes Received:
    Jake, you hush up now.

    I'll respond to your silly conjecture (classic Jake, though) with the simple fact that Vader has had to take time off because of discipline, whereas Show had to take time off because he was out of shape. Sure, Vader is fat. But he could still perform at a ridiculously high level despite his weight. He didn't break down, get fatigued, etc. Show had to be taken off TV because of his weight issues. He was fatter than Vader was.

    And if you argue that Show in his 1995 WCW prime wasn't that fat, I'll remind you that Vader in his 1992-93 WCW prime wasn't either. And if you take his prime as New Japan Pro, he was in even better shape.

    Poor Andre can't win a round.
  7. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

    Jun 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    I don't know, Finlay to legacy threw up some pretty gash posts.
    Cactus Jack's prime? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response, except you only need to read any history of Foley or WCW to see that literally nobody within that company saw him as more than a jobber to the stars.

    It's not as if Sting dominated that match either, there is a difference between a brutal match and taking a whooping, and this was a case of the former.

    I don't think beating three men in fifteen minutes is any more impressive than The Big Show winning a long battle royal in terms of endurance, and that was my point.Have you ever seen a multi man ladder match? It consists of people biding their time and then striking, and there is certainly nobody who has done that more than Big Show. Andre also win Battle Royales too, but not by biding his time.

    He went over Yokozuna when he was a fat carcass, and you know it. Andre was regularly wrestling Japan when Vader was, and so was Giant Baba. El Gigante was also a superheavyweight, and Vader couldn't beat him either. Big Show has fought and beat every superheavyweight around during his career.

    I'm saying in a ladder match, real or not, surviving a fall is more useful than losing matches whilst injured. Beating Cactus Jack in WCW means jack shit. Beating Mick Foley to a pulp in the WrestleMania of his annus mirablilis means a hell of a lot more.

    Finishing a match with injuries is important - look at the massive gash the Big Show had in his match at one night stand last year, but not getting injured is also important. Big Show is probably the only superheavyweight who's knees have remained in good shape throughout his career. He's ony slower because he's fatter than he was.

    Apologies, my Japanese isn't what it ought to be, I assumed based on facial reactions and got it wrong, soz.

    Seriously, read Finlay to Legacy, it's a goldmine of arse.

    Yeah I can see it now, Hulk Hogan WrestleMania III, Vader slammed him, hit the leg drop, how we all rejoiced. Then, at WrestleMania X, Bret Hart went to the top rope, then he fell off and Vader pinned him. Then at WrestleMania XV, Vader beat McMahon's lackey, Austin, and we all cheered. No wait, Vader actually beat those guys several years before or after all of those events when they were emphatically not in their primes. Hogan even had two primes, and Vader didn't beat him in either.

    Big Show DID beat nWo prime Hogan as well as Page, Undertaker, Kane, Khali, The Rock, HHH, Kurt Angle, Brock Lesnar all in their prime periods.

    Have you ever seen a Money in the Bank ladder match? I have, and it certainly isn't 6 guys fucking mincing through each other, it is basically two men in the ring and someone waiting on the outside to come in. Look at the match this year, Kofi Kingston and Mark Henry worked probably the longest periods of the match, but neither of them were anywhere near the finish. Good things come to those who wait.

    I'm not really sure, but Andre just doesn't seem right here.

    Tru dat.
    This is a very interesting point, but look who at the end of the match were on the top of the ladder: CM Punk, Christian and Kane. Now, ignore Christian and Punk as they have nothing in common with these guys at all, and you have Kane. Look at Kane's physique now, and see that it is essentially a 7/8th scale model of Big Show circa 1998, and he was far closer to winning than Mark Henry, and it was only the flexibility of a smaller man that prevented him from doing so. Vader or Andre can't do to Show what Punk did to Kane, so I think, Big Show is looking good there.

    Weeellllllll, vote for Big Show.

    No, he shouldn't.

    No they weren't. Look at the Giant in 1996, look at Andre when he was leanest in about 1976, they don't have the same physique. Paul Wight is huge, but he had his pituitary gland removed, so he didn't suffer from gigantism in adulthood like Andre.

    WCW was crap when Vader was there. As soon as Flair came back, he went down the card. His work was against nobodies, apart from Sting, who he beat and who beat him.

    Have you ever seen The Big Show be taken out with weapons for along time? I haven't, it's important.

    He won a shit title in Mexico that nobody gave a rats arse about, and he hardly ever defended it. The WCW title was being contested by Ron Simmons, Cactus Jack, not to forget that the NWA title and International Heavyweight Championship belt was also being contested on its shows when Vader won it. The WWF title was being contested by Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart and Randy Savage. I know which one I think is the top title.So, yeah, he won the title in Japan.

    Tell that to Razor Ramon, who won the most famous ladder math of all time by out powering Shawn Michaels.

    IC25 has shown Vader in WWF matches, it's only fair we do too. It's funny that The Big Show supporters don't have to say a three year period doesn't count, because he's never been irrelevant for that long.

    I see you've read Finlay to Legacy.

    Well he is faster, he is better and he is probably less agile. He's not as brutal, but he's brutal enough, and he's fought more ladder matchesand, by your own admission, more super heavyweights than Vader, so how the fuck is he less experienced?

    Well, you could also add that he beat Hogan in his debut match, the only man in history who can say that, and in addition the fact that he was the first person to beat Hogan for the WCW title, and the fact that he ended Hogans record breaking 469 day reign. Pretty fucking impressive, if you ask me.
    He also beat Sting and Lex Luger, quite a good reign indeed.

    Right place right time? Right, because 1999 WWF was famously barren of talent. Come on, he may have only feuded with Boss Man, but he was booked as a dominant champion throughout, but probably his weaest reign, granted.

    But he beat Brock Lesnar. Lesnar was the future of the business then, and it was his first pinfall loss. The fact that the Rock, The Undertaker and Hogan all failed to do it should show the significance of this victory.
    Right, so another good reign. In my estimation that's 4 out of 5, 3 out of 3 of Vader's WCW title reigns were lame, and his UWF reign was pretty much none existant. Even taking his Japan reigns into account, that's a higher percentage of shit reigns.

    If we're taking meaningless awards into consideration, then lets look at the PWI awards. Show, won Wrestler of the year in 1996, Vader won it in 1993. Show also won best rookie. So 2-1, Paul Wight wins.

    Vader isn't a three continent legend, he's a one continent legend. Nobody gives a toss in Mexico about him, and I sincerely doubt he'd be considered a legend based on his US work, where he's certainly acheived less than Paul Wight.

    A mechanics lesson for you. Imagine a ladder. Now imagine the Giant, Paul Wight. His weight was distributed evenly accross his body and he would be able to reach from lower down the ladder. Vader's weight is concentrated in his belly, which is higher than his legs. He would be standing higher on the ladder, so he will have a higher centre of gravity. This means he's less stable on the ladder, which means he'll be more likely to fall from the ladder than Big Show. These things need to be considered. Well, not really, but it is a factor.

    Not stronger, and the other two can probably climb a ladder.

    Andre did it first, Big Show did it better, and guys like Vader brought something else to the fray. Andre acheived by being it first.


    I don't see why Vader's inability to care for his opponent is going to help him here. Most of the time he injured people it was with big power moves which he wouldn't be able to do on these guys anyway.

    Right, well The Big Show in his prime has had the following in his corner: Kevin Sullivan's stable, the nWo, The Corporation, The Union. I fancy those guys could probably oust Race between them, and Bobby Heenan for that matter.

    Then Ken Shamrock, of the Union and Corporation could go and put Vader in the ankle lock, like he's done before, and mke him bitch out, like he's done before. Interference arguments are ridiculous, but Big Show has certainly got the advantage in that department if you want to try and go there.
    Just about every ladder match I have ever seen ends with at least two of the participants on the ladder before one is pushed off, or taken off with the ladder. The most stable guy on the ladder is likely to succeed, and that is Big show, due to his lower centre of gravity.I don't much like the argument, but if you want to have it, those are the facts.

    I'm not even going to address how insignificant beating Foley is again, he beat Sting, yeah, but Sting beat him a few weeks later, Yokozuna was poo and came back about two months later, meaning it wasn't the best leg break of all time exactly. These are weak ass and lame.
    Beating foley to a point where he is incapacitated is pretty damn impressive, in my opinion, as is coming back from the fall, all relevant to his tenacity.

    Big Show's favour, everything goes in Big Show's favour.

    Bollocks.Show me Vader tip a jeep and we'll have this conversation again.
    I'd take a right hnd that knocked out the Undertaker over a powerbomb, which Vader definitely couldn't do here, a moonsault which is just about the easiest move in history to counter and a splash anyday.

    Big Show destroyed Mankind, Vader survived against a shitter era of Foley. He's never broken down injured in a match ever, you can't hold not being prone to injury over him.
    I've already expressed my doubts about this one.

    No, he didn't beat Canek IN MEXICO did he?!? El Canek who made a career of losing IN MEXICO to foreigners then beating them much later. Like in this instance. The Big Show got knocked out by a boxer? SHIT THE BED! And he didn't even get knocked out twice, as I recall. If winning world titles makes you smart, then why is it that big dumb lummox Sid Vicious is a multiple time world champion and Jake Roberts has won fuck all? The guy duped the Undertaker, something very few, if anyone has ever managed. He lured Angle up a ledge to injure him. He's anything but stupid.

    These awards are bullshit, and Big Show has won wrestler of the year and rookie of the year from both anyway. Vader was runner up in most hated, as in best heel, and I have never heard of Best manoeuvre in that publication.

    The laws of physics imply he most certainly wasn't built for a match like this.

    Big Show was fat when he was shit. If we look at Vader when he was good, we can see he was still fat. If we look at Big Show/The Giant when he was good, he was huge but not fat.
    Except he was.


    That is a fat man.


    That is not.

    I wish he was doing better, I feel sorry for him.
  8. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

    Mar 29, 2007
    Likes Received:
    A fat man with three championship belts on his person. If he won just one more he'd need to wear it on his head because he's out of legs.

    You're right, that is a rather statuesque rookie with no championship belts, as opposed to Vader's 3. Triple H and Batista have shown us that taking time off from being on the road and competing is a recipe for rebuilding a ridiculously build physique. But when Show had to work, his body broke down and he got fat. Vader was always fat, but still performed at a VERY high level.

    I love you. Let's never fight again.


    Let me be more specific - Cactus Jack's hardcore prime. He was developing his reputation as a hardcore wrestler that fed into his ECW and early WWE legacy. In the early 90's, Jack worked very credible, rough matches in WCW as well as overseas. He was more than formidable.

    Nobody dominated a match against Vader before 1998. Not even Sting, who has a career losing record in televised matches against Vader despite being the biggest face in WCW history.

    A multi-man ladder match - later you bring up MITB - often involves 6 or 8 people. Only 3 guys here. Limited rest. And if you think Vader won't breathe when Andre and Show fight for a bit, you're nuts. The difference? Vader has carried longer, better matches than the other two and not gotten winded.

    Of course I do. He was also almost 700 lbs, and Vader tossed him around the ring and beat him like a child. Granted, the argument would carry vastly more weight if Vader had beaten 505 lb Yokozuna, who was amazing, or even 450-lb Kokina, but I am working with what I have, and Vader destroyed the heaviest pro wrestler since Happy Humphrey.

    Big Show hasn't had to deal with the legendary SHW's that Vader did, I'd wager. Show has dealt with guys like Mabel, Mark Henry, et als. I haven't seen a Vader vs Giant Baba match, but there are far worse names out there to lose to. A loss against Baba is a loss to a legend.

    And since Vader regularly came off the top rope, he knows what happens when you fall from a height. The only time I remember Wight coming off the top was being Superplexed by Lesnar. I know he's come off once or twice independent of that, but he's not known for it. Vader has shown proficiency from heights - Andre and Show have shown an aversion to them.

    You MUST be joking! You don't think doling out massive punishment to one of the toughest hardcore wrestlers in history counts in a match where the object is to beat your opponent into incapacitation in order to climb a ladder, unimpeded?

    I finished a high school wrestling match with my nose shattered in two places and plugs shoved up my nostrils to keep blood off the mat. Hardcore Holly finished a match with a gash. But 90% of guys, if their eye pops out of their head, panic and get a medic. Vader pops it back in and goes on with his business. You cannot refute that toughness.

    Do I even need to respond to this?

    And he could never sustain that momentum. He'd win one big match and then fall off because he didn't have the ability to sustain momentum. Vader would do it in the US and Japan simultaneously.

    And despite the fact that the weight of Vader, Show, and Andre equals roughly that of Punk, Miz, Morrison, Kofi, MVP, Edge, and Jericho combined, that doesn't change the fact that this is a 3-man match. A lot less rest time will be available, and if you think Show is the only one who will grab any, you're way off base. The keys here are offensive ability, which is to Vader's advantage, agility, which is WAY to Vader's advantage, and overall ring experience - check mark to Vader.

    Dear God, no it wasn't. It was a good program with talented guys like Vader, Sting, Rude, Austin, Pillman, Windham, Anderson, Regal, etc. You can't blame "The Hogan effect" on Vader. Same goes for Hart and Michaels.

    Mayweather's brass knucks, last Wrestlemania.

    Which proves he is not only susceptible, but also gullible.

    It's not a shit title, it was a major title in Mexico. And it was the tertiary (look it up) championship he won, behind the WCW World Title and the IWGP Title.

    Yeah, to be fair I'll look at total body of work. But 3 years isn't accurate. Vader was irrelevant in WWF for maybe one year when he started losing to Kane and Bradshaw. But in his first two years in WWF he headlined Summerslam, pinned the Undertaker, and was in the WWF Title picture for quite a while.

    I didn't count the number of SHW's each man wrestled, but while Show may have dealt with more SHW's, Vader contended with a greater quality of SHW's. I am not talking about post-prime Yokozuna, more so Giant Baba, whom you've already mentioned.

    And David Arquette won the WCW Title in his 2nd match ever. Technicalities in both cases. Wight was stripped of the title because of a stipulation. It was a weak moment for him, and a weak booking move for WCW.

    See above: technicality, later reversed.

    Incidentally, Vader is the only man in history to kick out of Hogan's leg drop at a one count.

    Also on Vader's list of defeated stars.

    Damn impressive, no question. Of course Show eventually lost the feud, but yes, he defeated Lesnar. And in classic Show fashion, didn't hold the momentum.

    Are you not taking into account Show's "Worst Wrestler" and "Most Embarassing Wrestler" awards?

    I'll grant you he isn't a legend in Mexico, but definately US and Japan. And Vader had more impressive accomplishments in the US than Wight did, AND has Japan on top of it.

    He injured guys who didn't know how to protect themselves, or who tried to re-write matches. It didn't happen very often. Vader was stiff, but he completed his moves properly, unlike someone like a Sid Eudy who nearly broke people's necks.
  9. WrestlingAuthority90

    WrestlingAuthority90 Occasional Pre-Show

    May 20, 2008
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    There's plenty of wrestlers that arent very athletic. Great Khali being one of them. But the bulk of Vader is his biggest issue. At Wrestlemania 22 Bobby Lashley couldnt hardly make it up the ladder. Vader is much bigger and less athletic than Lashley. So I think it would be a huge task for him to pull his bulge up a ladder.
  10. IrishCanadian25

    IrishCanadian25 Going on 10 years with WrestleZone

    Mar 29, 2007
    Likes Received:
    I'd like to thank the 49 people who had the foresight to vote for the Greatest Superheavyweight in wrestling history in this ladder match. It's nice to see that speed, agility, brutality, experience, and overall ability have won out over...recency.

    And to the 44 who voted for The Big Show, I hope you've all learned a bit more about Leon "Big Van Vader" White. He truly was an anomole of the business, and I hope you can find an appreciation for what he was able to do in the ring and take it into the next round.

    And to those who supported Andre the a ladder match...against Vader and Big Show...I can only assume you were torn between the other two and voted for Andre to stay out of the line of fire. Fair enough. Please support Big Van Vader next round, however, we will need you!
  11. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

    Jun 16, 2008
    Likes Received:
    It's certainly not going to fit around his waist.

    So, Big Show got fat, big deal. There was a time when he wasn't, just like the was a time when Vader didn't fall off the ring apron, those are the times that matter.

    I'm a fighter not a lover.

    Big Show beat him in his actual prime though, more impressive, if you ask me. He also beat Big Bossman in his hardcore prime. You snide at Bossman, but he is the only man to feature in the main event during the Hulkamania, nWo and attitude eras, that is a pretty impressive feat.

    Maybe, but nobody has dominated against the Big Show ever, to my recollection, even now when he's fat and slow.

    Well, the other multi man ladder matches are much of the same. Big Show is better at conserving himself than both Andre and Vader, so it is relevant.

    Big Show destroyed Loch Ness, who was 672 pounds. That's pretty much exactly the same. The only difference is he beat him several times, and he beat him quicker.

    Right, so a loss now counts in Vader's favour? Vader beat Bam Bam Bigelow, fair enough, but he beat the same Yokozuna that lost all the time and was fat and shit. Show beat Henry, Daddy V and Loch Ness in their primes, not to mention the guys like Undertaker, Nash and Kane, who while they aren't your standard superheavyweights, are all within 40lbs of Bigelow.

    Everyone knows that falling from a high height hurts. That's why Big Show and Andre don't go to the top rope - it's a risk they don't need to take. I'll tell you what though, Big Show knows what it's like to fall off a ladder, and be in a ladder match. The top rope isn't half the height of a ladder.

    I think beating him to the point where he has to go to the hospital in the middle of his prime is more impressive than narrowly beating him 6 years before said prime.

    No, that's pretty tough, granted, but the Big Show's only injury during a match as I recall was when he got that deep gash on his head in the singapore cane match, and he continued and he won. Vader was unfortunate to have what happened happen, as you were with your nose, and to continue is noble, but there isn't an incidence of Paul Wight doubling over and stopping a match to compare it to.

    You could respond with by naming 7 foot wrestler who doesn't have damaged knees apart from Paul Wight. Actually, no, you don't need to respond because you can't.

    I'd say beating Flair, then beating Sting and Lex Luger was anything but a drop of momentum. I don't know. What momentum did Vader have in the US? DQ defeats against Davey Boy Smith? Come on now.

    Really, what's the biggest Triple threat matches has Vader won then? Big Show beat Rock and HHH, in their primes, and that should show how good his ability at timing his actions is. He's also the only man who has ladder match experiene and the only one who has consistently fought large guys.

    You can blame the lack of Flair for it. Only one of the men you mentioned was a World Champion when Flair left. When Big Show first won his WWF title, there were no fewer than 7 former world champions on the roster, when he won the WCW title, it was 6.
    Mayweather got given the knucks by his entourage of 20 odd people, you can't blame Big Show for that.

    It wasn't a major title in Mexico when he won it. It was the second title in the second promotion, it's like holding the X Division title today. A quick lesson. UWF was unquestionably the second promotion at best in 1988/9 wheneve Vader won the title, it escapes me. However, heavyweight titles in Mexico are like Cruiserweight titles in the US, people want to watch the middleweights.

    Didn't win the main event at Summerslam though did he, was involved in shit like double DQs at the other major PPVs.

    But he lost to Baba, didn't he?! The point is Show has never been beaten by any of the lummoxes he's come up against, and Vader has failed to beat El Gigante, arguably the worst superheavyweight of all time.

    He still fucking beat Hogan, reversed or not. Beating Hulk Hogan, no matter how you do it, is somewhat better than pinning eric Bischoff in a tag match, seriously.
    Since when did technicalities matter in wrestling? I suppose the Undertaker's first reign doesn't count then does it? Or Andre's when he gave the title away. No they count, always have always will.

    Who won that match? Was it Hogan? The answer is yes, yes it was.

    Great. But the thing is, is Paul Wight has beaten far more big names than that, and Vader's beaten one or two, unless you count a load of people mile outside their primes.

    As I recall, this match is a one off and not a feud. Surely Show, who has made a career of high impact early wins would be in his element here then?

    No, I'm not taking into account any of those awards, they mean arse all.
    A two time WWE and WCW champion is better than a three time WCW champion. Show ended a 1+ year Hogan reign, ended Lesnar's streak and held the ECW title to boot. Vader was a main eventer in a promotion that considered Ron Simmons a top draw, and an upper midcarder at best in WWE, how the hell does that make him a legend.

    By that criteria R-Truth is a PPV title match defeat away from being an American legend.

    Re-writing matches is an important aspect of wrestling, if you go in with some kind of paint by numbers you end up fucked when something goes wrong.

    EDIT: Oh good, the poll's closed.

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