ECW Semi-Final: Barbed Wire Match: Brock Lesnar vs. Edge

[Shocky]

The following match is a semi-final match in the ECW Regino, from the ECW Arena in Philadelphia, PA.

Barbed Wire Match:

The ring ropes will be replaced with Barb Wire. The first person to score a pinfall or submission victory in the ring will be declared the winner.

"The Next Big Thing" Brock Lesnar

vs.

"The Rated R Superstar" Edge

 

[Uncle Sam]

Ah, good. Glad they drew the Barbed Wire match. Much easier to talk about than three separate gimmicks in one match. That would have been tiresome.

Now, Brock Lesnar wins, obviously. What did you think this was; a choice? Fuck no. Vote Brock Lesnar. I'll even give you reasons - that's the kind of guy I am.

1) Lesnar is more sadistic. Yeah, Edge almost set Mick Foley on fire that one time. Whatever, pussy. Brock Lesnar hospitalised a guy with one leg. And he was really adorable. He didn't need that, man; he's faced adversity his entire life, having one leg and all. No idea why he chose to be a wrestler. But he did, and you fucked him up, Brock. Ice cold.

2) Lesnar is bigger and stronger. It's hard to push someone into barbed wire that's stronger and bigger than you, but easy to do it to someone smaller and weaker than you. Simple logic. It's why I pick on midgets.

3) Edge was on the floor, crying for about half an hour after he got hit by barbed wire last time. Imagine him falling into an entire pile of the shit. I'd be surprised if he even turned up for the match. I've never seen Lesnar react to barbed wire, but I'd imagine he'd be a man about it.

 

[SavageTaker]

This is a very interesting match. I am not going to make an argument yet because I haven't decided who I'm going to support and I want to see what other people say about this match so that it can help make my decision. I'm kind of leaning towards one of them but I'm still not sure. On one hand Edge has been more successful than Angle and has way more experience in gimmick match. Edge has also defeated some of the best there is. But in the other hand Lesnar is a very strong fucker. Lesnar has also been pretty accomplished and he too has defeated some great wrestlers.

Right now I'm not sure who I will vote for but I'll just wait and see what people say and I might be swayed to vote for that person they support, depending on how good the argument is.

 

[Tastycles]

Edge wins. At Rebellion in 2003, Lesnar barely scraped a win against Edge in a handicap match, so on his own, he'd come unstuck.

Edge has had far more gimmick matches in his career than Lesnar, and he has won a healthy proportion of them, he has also defeated Vader and Mick Foley, two of the most hardcore guys ever.

Lesnar never really came accross a hardcore wrestler in his career of that level, and he would be a little out of his element here. Edge wins.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Lesnar may have not wrestled in many hardcore element matches but Edge hasn't encountered barbed wire but only once. Edge couldn't handle it very well when Foley used it on him so I don't see no reason why he can handle it now especially with Brock. All Lesnar has to do is throw Edge one time into the ropes and he can work on him from there. Edge will put up a hell of a fight but I will have to slightly go with Lesnar here.

 

[Shocky]

Edge wins. At Rebellion in 2003, Lesnar barely scraped a win against Edge in a handicap match, so on his own, he'd come unstuck.

This argument is tiresome. Edge tried to isolate Heyman in that match, and Lesnar out thought Edge in the long run. Edge I guess was the ultimate opportunist all the way back in 2002. Luckily for Brock Lesnar, he managed to out smart Edge (amazing how a one dimensional oaf manages to outsmart all of these supposed wiley Veterans) and retain. The end of the match was Brock walking out with the WWE title still.

Edge has had far more gimmick matches in his career than Lesnar, and he has won a healthy proportion of them, he has also defeated Vader and Mick Foley, two of the most hardcore guys ever.

Slow clap...Edge beat a Vader five years out of his prime, and a Mick Foley that was retired from main time action for 6 years. It's not like Brock hasn't wrestled in gimmick matches, and came out victorious in all of them. Biker Chain match, Hell in the Cell, Stretcher Match, Iron Man match, make your pick, Brock won them all.

Lesnar never really came accross a hardcore wrestler in his career of that level, and he would be a little out of his element here. Edge wins.

Yeah, I'm sure the Undertaker thought that as well, and he lost both a Hell in the Cell and a Biker Chain match to Brock. Not only did he lose Hell in the Cell, he was dominated in that match.

Edge is a good wrestler, and I'm not going to spend too much time trying to bash him because I enjoy him, he's simply outmatched here. He's in an enclosed environement with a monster of a man that did more in his first 7 1/2 months in the WWE then Edge did in his first 7 1/2 years.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Ah, good. Glad they drew the Barbed Wire match. Much easier to talk about than three separate gimmicks in one match. That would have been tiresome.

Like that's gonna make replying to things simpler. You still have to contend with me, and I'm like three separate matches in one anyways.

Now, Brock Lesnar wins, obviously. What did you think this was; a choice? Fuck no. Vote Brock Lesnar. I'll even give you reasons - that's the kind of guy I am.

And I'll dispute them. That's the kind of guy I am.

1) Lesnar is more sadistic. Yeah, Edge almost set Mick Foley on fire that one time. Whatever, pussy. Brock Lesnar hospitalised a guy with one leg. And he was really adorable. He didn't need that, man; he's faced adversity his entire life, having one leg and all. No idea why he chose to be a wrestler. But he did, and you fucked him up, Brock. Ice cold.

This is without question the dumbest logic in this entire thing. Most people backing Lesnar, are doing so because they think Lesnar is sadistic. How?

Wait, wait.. because he F-5'ed a one legged 19 year old into a ring post? Wow, that took a lot of effort. Well, what about the time he bear hugged a 55 year old man in Hulk Hogan? Yeah, that's what I'd consider pure bad-ass.

Fuck that shit.

Edge beat Ric Flair to a bloody pulp. He's kicked Matt Hardy's head so far in, that the officials had to stop the match. He speared Mick Foley through a flaming table, burning not only his own body, but Foley's as well. He straight up made Terry Funk think about permanently retiring. He's ended Undertaker's career once. (hey, it counts) He's speared a helpless Jeff Hardy 20 (plus) feet in the air.

Yeah.. sadistic? This round goes to Edge. Lesnar likely can't even spell the word.. Edge lives it every time he steps in a gimmick match.

2) Lesnar is bigger and stronger. It's hard to push someone into barbed wire that's stronger and bigger than you, but easy to do it to someone smaller and weaker than you. Simple logic. It's why I pick on midgets.

While I agree with your logic on picking on midgets, it's not the same in the world of Professional Wrestling. Watch the Sabu/Funk match.. Funk is like, what, 90 during that time.. and yet he easily pushes and shoves a guy in better shape, and condition around with ease.

Lesnar is built better than Edge, but as far as weight goes.. Lesnar is a whooping 15 pounds heavier than Edge.. not really what I'd consider a size-able weight difference, especially considering Edge has "man-handled" the Undertaker, and Taker weighs more than Lesnar.

If this is still an issue for you.. I urge you to watch the only Edge/Lesnar video there is.. and you'll see Edge actually push Lesnar around. (holy shit, I know, right?) So it's entirely possible, and very probable.. that Edge not only can push and shove Lesnar just as much.. but theoretically.. more.

3) Edge was on the floor, crying for about half an hour after he got hit by barbed wire last time. Imagine him falling into an entire pile of the shit. I'd be surprised if he even turned up for the match. I've never seen Lesnar react to barbed wire, but I'd imagine he'd be a man about it.

You just answered your own query, Brock Lesnar hasn't had any interaction with Barbwire. So chances are, he's going to be more afraid of the possible danger of it.. than a man like Edge, who fully knows coming in, what it can do to you.

Furthermore, I think you're adding a bit much to this whole "he cried for about half an hour" bit. (The whole match didn't last half an hour, Sam, geez.)

In all seriousness though.. did Edge feel pain from it? Fuck yes. Go cut yourself with barbwire and tell me it doesn't hurt. Holy shit, can any of you people be this naive? (don't answer this, Sam, it's rhetorical) Yes, razor sharp barbs fucking hurt. No matter how much pain you can tolerate.

However, did Edge quit when he got sliced open? Uhm, NO.. he not only continued the match.. he continued, fully knowing he could get cut up worse. (ie. aggression, and balls) It was following this, that he continued to take more punishment. (ie. endurance, and resiliency) And in the end, still won the match.

So.. what makes Lesnar and Edge different? Edge persevered. He continued through the pain, dealt with the pain, and won the fucking match. Lesnar's never been in this environment, thus he doesn't know what to expect. The only gimmick matches Lesnar's ever been in, most of them he's stayed away from the environment. He's made sure that the weapons involved in those gimmicks, weren't used on him, or in general.. he'd rather rely on his own abilities.. and that's his downside.

Edge doesn't have an issue using the barbwire.. Lesnar acts afraid of gimmick matches, because he doesn't embrace them. He doesn't use them to his advantage, he tries to act as if they aren't even there. (Look at the Hell in a Cell match.. he barely, if at all, used the Cell as a weapon)

It's gonna be really hard for Lesnar to ignore barbwire replacing the ropes, the first time Edge throws him into them.

Lesnar may have not wrestled in many hardcore element matches but Edge hasn't encountered barbed wire but only once. Edge couldn't handle it very well when Foley used it on him so I don't see no reason why he can handle it now especially with Brock. All Lesnar has to do is throw Edge one time into the ropes and he can work on him from there. Edge will put up a hell of a fight but I will have to slightly go with Lesnar here.

Once again, you act like Lesnar being bigger, and stronger.. will make Edge weaker, or somehow 'wuss-like'. How can this be accurate?

Once again, I point out that Lesnar weighs exactly 15 pounds heavier than Edge, but size-ably less than the Undertaker.. whom Edge has thrown around the ring before. You take size into account, and want to use it.. fine.. then make sure you use it, correctly.

Edge has power himself. Need I remind everyone.. Edge has speared the likes of Big Show, Batista, the Undertaker, and other bigger, badder and more powerful guys than he.. and his Spear has put all of them down for a 3-count, and then some.

Edge has shown his strength and power against the likes of the Undertaker, Kane and Big Show.. all three guys are bigger, weigh more, and possess similar strength as Lesnar. Yes, Lesnar F-5'ed Mark Henry.. Undertaker Tombstoned Henry.. what's the point? Henry isn't wrestling, Edge is.. you know Edge, right? The guy that's slightly more agile and craftier than Henry's fat ass?

And finally.. the barbwire element.. scroll up and read what I told Sam.. Edge has dealt with it, and felt pain from it. He hurt from it, but didn't back away, or cower. He stood up, like a man, finished the match - AND WON. And less than 5 months later, involved himself in yet another match that included barbwire..

So I fail to see how Edge is running from the stuff.. if anything, he's added it as one more gimmick element he's understood how to manipulate.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

This argument is tiresome. Edge tried to isolate Heyman in that match, and Lesnar out thought Edge in the long run. Edge I guess was the ultimate opportunist all the way back in 2002. Luckily for Brock Lesnar, he managed to out smart Edge (amazing how a one dimensional oaf manages to outsmart all of these supposed wiley Veterans) and retain. The end of the match was Brock walking out with the WWE title still.

Wait, so are you saying it's a bad thing that he tried isolating the weaker, smaller and easier to beat Heyman? How is that a bad thing? It shows he was using his head.

And yes, Lesnar came out the victor. Against a not yet in his prime version of Edge. Barely. So tell me, how a guy fully in his prime (Lesnar) could give all he had, and just barely find a way to pull out a victory, over a guy still coming into his own.. find a way to win this match - when both are meant to be considered in their prime?

Slow clap...Edge beat a Vader five years out of his prime, and a Mick Foley that was retired from main time action for 6 years. It's not like Brock hasn't wrestled in gimmick matches, and came out victorious in all of them. Biker Chain match, Hell in the Cell, Stretcher Match, Iron Man match, make your pick, Brock won them all.

Just like I mentioned earlier, I say one more time. Lesnar acts scared of gimmick matches. Watch them closer.. he barely uses his surroundings to his advantage.

His Hell in a Cell match.. how many times did he use the actual Cell? The Chain match.. (not excluding the help he had by Mr. McMahon, mind you) how much did he use the chain? Once??

The same thing qualifies for all the rest. Stretcher, Cell, Chain, Hardcore, etc, etc.. how often have you seen Lesnar actually use what's given to him? Not very often. But why?

It's one of two things.

1. Lesnar's cocky and arrogant in believing that his body and natural abilities are good enough, that he doesn't need to use the gimmicks that surround the ring, or are made legal for the match.

2. Lesnar is afraid of bringing gimmicks into the match, for fear they could be used worse against him.. then he could ever use them against his opponents.

So once again, I implore you to look at the difference between the gimmick strong Edge, and the collegian experienced Lesnar.

Edge is arrogant and cocky, no question. But he's definitely NOT above using the barbwire, or any other weapon he can get his hands on.. Lesnar, on the other hand - seems more confident in trying to stay as far away from weapons, (barbwire included) as possible.

If anything.. Lesnar seems like the guy who'd be worried and scared of this match, far more than Edge ever would be.

Yeah, I'm sure the Undertaker thought that as well, and he lost both a Hell in the Cell and a Biker Chain match to Brock. Not only did he lose Hell in the Cell, he was dominated in that match.

Slight correction.. The Undertaker didn't lose that match.. a gimmick by the term of The American Badass lost that match.

How does that make a difference? Easy.. even the Undertaker has went on record in saying that was his worst career moment(s) ever. The character was weaker than the Undertaker character, and as such.. it's no wonder Lesnar dominated him.

The true point to make here.. is how Edge has defeated the actual Undertaker character. You know, the Deadman.. the character that has the ability to no-sell, sit up, and come back from in-human amounts of pain.. yeah.. Edge beat that guy..

Lesnar beat a guy closely resembling this guy..

Edge is a good wrestler, and I'm not going to spend too much time trying to bash him because I enjoy him, he's simply outmatched here. He's in an enclosed environment with a monster of a man that did more in his first 7 1/2 months in the WWE then Edge did in his first 7 1/2 years.

The problem I have with this is two things..

First, I want to get this much out of the way.. Just because Barbwire surrounds the ring, replacing the ropes.. does NOT mean the action won't spill outside the ring. (watch every barbwire match that's taken place - the action ALWAYS finds its way outside the ring, introducing more weapons to the match)

That in and of itself, falls well into Edge's advantage and category. He can gain distance, as well as regather himself with his own style of weapons.

Lesnar wouldn't dare leave the four sided ring that he's comfortable with, allowing Edge the chance to re-think strategy, as well as health.

Second, Shocky I respect every single bit of what you have to say.. but I'm not as happy-go-lucky to sing the praises of both men.

I liked Brock Lesnar, before I heard and seen the attitude and disrespectful nature he's shown to the world of Professional Wrestling. This falls outside the realm of this match, but it needs to be said..

Lesnar is not unbeatable. He's not immortal. He's not perfect, he's not even great. He's a muscle headed dip-shit, who got lucky because McMahon loved his size.. and the guy spent 'x' amount of years, on the ground, rolling around with other guys in college.

Talent? Yes. Respect? No. For that reason, and that reason alone.. I'll never vote for Brock Lesnar. He disrespects the industry that made him look a hell of a lot better than he'll EVER be.

As I've said before, I see countless Lesnar supporters all saying one thing.. He'd win because he's stronger. He'd win because he's unstoppable. He'd win because he doesn't fear this sorta thing. No, he's not unstoppable. No, he's not fearless. He's some punk little bitch, who allowed his head to overload his talent.

So in the end.. VOTE EDGE

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Well..instead of dissecting BigWill's comments one by one, I'll just state my case for Brock Lesnar ending the Rated R Superstar's run in the WZ Tourney.

1) Brock Lesnar is SADISTIC

I know how much BigWill hates that word, but it fits. lulz.

Here's the thing. I know that the argument can be made for Edge being as sadistic as Lesnar and I'll go as far as saying Edge matches that sadistic attitude. But...Brock Lesnar does more with his aggression than Edge does. Edge primes himself on finding opportunities to sneak in and grab a victory. How can you do that when a man like Brock Lesnar knows this and wants to inflict as much pain on you as humanly possible. Edge doesn't want to hurt Brock, he wants to WIN THE MATCH! Brock wants to HURT anyone he gets into the ring with, including Edge. And in a Barb Wire match, Edge is fucked. Lesnar will taste barb wire and be alright. The man fights in MMA and can take real shots to his body. Edge wrestled Foley past his prime, Funk 20 plus years past his prime and has a few great high spots in TLC matches. But NONE of them involve Barbed Wire. In this instance, Edge will see a hospital bed in his future.

2) Brock Lesnar is tougher than Edge

As I explained before, Brock Lesnar can take punishment. He took two gun fire sounding chair shots from Jeff and Matt and only flew out of the ring on his feet in a fit of anger. Edge doesn't deal with pain too well. Undertaker dominated Edge in their Hell in a Cell match and eventually destroyed Edg-o-matic by chokeslamming him to hell. No barb wire involved. What makes you think Brock won't destroy Edge in a much more hardcore match and a much more dangerous environment.

Edge will have no opportunity

As the title says, we know Edge to be the "Ultimate Opportunist". That means he sees a moment in time to seek out a win by undergoing as little punishment as possible. This will be impossible to avoid. Lesnar will punish Edge with power move after power move and trips to the Barb Wire ropes. Edge will be bloodied up, and instead of Edge finding an opportunity to win, he'll find an opportunity to try to stay breathing in this match. Brock Lesnar is a man who is notorious for just overpowering and hurting people. Edge is known as simply a man who finds ways to win. In this match, he'll find no opportunity at a win.

IN conclusion, Brock Lesnar isn't the best wrestler in the world. He's just simply the toughest. The man is built to take punishment, he's built to take scrapes and cuts, and he's built to deal punishment to anyone he sees fit. Edge stands no chance of winning. Period.

Vote Lesnar.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Well..instead of dissecting BigWill's comments one by one, I'll just state my case for Brock Lesnar ending the Rated R Superstar's run in the WZ Tourney.

Welcome to the world of TheOneBigWill has determined you need a lesson in dissecting.

1) Brock Lesnar is SADISTIC

Brock fucking Lesnar is NOT Sadistic!

Holy shit I'm going to have an aneurysm trying to explain this to people.

How is he? It's a simple question, with no logical answer. He's punished and tore apart people easily smaller, and older than he was. His most brutal, sadistic moments.. came at the hands of a one legged teenager, and a senior citizen.

Outside of that, when has he ever been sadistic? WHEN!? Give me videos, or matches. I'll find them.. I have Lesnar's library of W.W.F moments. (which was when he was in his wrestling prime, mind you)

I know how much BigWill hates that word, but it fits. lulz.

It really doesn't. It just serves to piss me off more. And prove my point, even harder.

Here's the thing. I know that the argument can be made for Edge being as sadistic as Lesnar and I'll go as far as saying Edge matches that sadistic attitude. But...Brock Lesnar does more with his aggression than Edge does.

That's because Edge never got the chance to beat the holy shit outta a one legged teenager, like Lesnar. How can Edge match that? He once threw a midget in a trash can, and then in a dumpster.. does that count? It was pretty sadistic, as far as that word connects you people to Lesnar.

Truth is though, Edge IS as sadistic, and even by leaps and bounds more so.. he's done far more sadistic things than Lesnar's ever dreamed of. I mentioned several of these moments above.. scroll up and re-read.

If you have Lesnar "sadistic" moments, that doesn't include beating up a senior citizen, or a one legged teenager.. show me, direct me, I'll check it out.

Edge primes himself on finding opportunities to sneak in and grab a victory. How can you do that when a man like Brock Lesnar knows this and wants to inflict as much pain on you as humanly possible. Edge doesn't want to hurt Brock, he wants to WIN THE MATCH!

I'd say wanting to WIN the match is a pretty good game-plan. Wouldn't you?

Brock wants to HURT anyone he gets into the ring with, including Edge. And in a Barb Wire match, Edge is fucked. Lesnar will taste barb wire and be alright.

So.. Lesnar wants to inflict pain, Edge wants to win.. who's this favoring, again? The guy who just wants to inflict punishment.. or the guy who doesn't care how much punishment he takes, as long as he wins in the end? Yeah.. Edge wins.

The man fights in MMA and can take real shots to his body.

He's also a guy who got cut by the Minnesota Vikings, before training camp, because he wasn't strong enough, or good enough, to make their roster. Regardless, all of this is...

Irrelevant. This match-up is all about both when they were in the W.W.E. - not anything else.

Edge wrestled Foley past his prime, Funk 20 plus years past his prime and has a few great high spots in TLC matches. But NONE of them involve Barbed Wire. In this instance, Edge will see a hospital bed in his future.

Lesnar beat Undertaker during one of the worst stages of his career, and barely used the gimmick(s) involved. He's lost numerous matches to lesser talented and easily smaller sized athletes than he.. (Holly, Guerrero, Angle, Benoit, R.V.D, etc)

Lesnar's also never dealt with barbwire. Edge has. Advantage in knowledge - Edge.

2) Brock Lesnar is tougher than Edge

As I explained before, Brock Lesnar can take punishment. He took two gun fire sounding chair shots from Jeff and Matt and only flew out of the ring on his feet in a fit of anger.

He took two chair shots from two guys with noodle arms. It's about the equivalent of a fly, flying into my face and claiming he bitch-slapped me. Lesnar was brushed by a pair of flies, not two guns..

Edge doesn't deal with pain too well. Undertaker dominated Edge in their Hell in a Cell match and eventually destroyed Edg-o-matic by chokeslamming him to hell.

Edge and Taker went back and forth in that match, and I'd hardly say Taker dominated him. Edge got in sizeable amounts of pain and punishment, dished onto the Undertaker just the same.

No barb wire involved.

HE WAS SENT TO HELL! How is Hell not worse than Barbwire?! Flames shot up from the hole he fell into.. the guy was burnt alive for all we know!

And he came back in mere months, to win another Heavyweight Championship - mind you.. Thats dedication.

What makes you think Brock won't destroy Edge in a much more hardcore match and a much more dangerous environment.

Because Lesnar doesn't use the hardcore environment to his advantage, and acts scared to do so...

Seriously.. watch all of his gimmick matches, he barely uses any of what's given to him. Edge, on the other hand.. uses everything given and then some.

Edge will have no opportunity

There is always opportunity. You just have to look for it.

As the title says, we know Edge to be the "Ultimate Opportunist". That means he sees a moment in time to seek out a win by undergoing as little punishment as possible. This will be impossible to avoid.

How will it be impossible to avoid? Yes, he'll take punishment.. but need I remind you, past his prime or not.. Mick Foley still inflicted some heavy damage to Edge.. Edge toughed it out, and won.

The match ended by Edge spearing Foley through a flaming table, for sakes! Edge burnt himself, to win the match. Edge is willing to put his body through hell (literally, if you think about that HIAC match) to seek out a victory.

Lesnar will punish Edge with power move after power move and trips to the Barb Wire ropes. Edge will be bloodied up, and instead of Edge finding an opportunity to win, he'll find an opportunity to try to stay breathing in this match.

Meh.. you're using this understanding as if Edge wouldn't have any offense in this match. If you've watched one Wrestling match, you've watched a thousand.

Each man gets an advantage, and opportunity to inflict punishment on their opponent. This means, each man will trade off.. and in the end, once again.. Edge has dealt with pain and torture in gimmick matches (including Barbwire attacks) before.. Lesnar, has not. Advantage.. Edge.

Brock Lesnar is a man who is notorious for just overpowering and hurting people.

He's also notorious for losing to smaller Wrestlers, and constantly losing when people don't expect him to.

Edge is known as simply a man who finds ways to win. In this match, he'll find no opportunity at a win.

This is perfect, couldn't have said the bolded part better myself.

Once again, there is ALWAYS an opportunity. Edge will seek it out, find it, exploit it, and use it to win.

IN conclusion, Brock Lesnar isn't the best wrestler in the world. He's just simply the toughest.

Uhm.. no he's not.

Besides any of that, you can be as tough as you want, all it takes is a simple roll-up to gain victory. Edge is crafty, smart and sneaky. Who's to say he wouldn't wrap Lesnar up in Barbwire, then roll him up for a quick 3-count.

Lesnar can be the toughest guy in the world, taking the pain.. but a quick, out of the blue roll-up has defeated even the biggest, baddest and greatest in the business.. Edge thrives off stuff like this as well.

The man is built to take punishment, he's built to take scrapes and cuts, and he's built to deal punishment to anyone he sees fit. Edge stands no chance of winning. Period.

This is just a naive, ignorant statement. Lariat, you're a very good poster - no question.. but saying Edge stands NO chance.. is just dumb-founding.

Where there's a Will, there's a way. Hi, I'm Will.. and a vote for Edge is the only way.

Vote Lesnar.

Or not.

Don't worry, Lariat, you're still a good poster. Just misguided views - that's all.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Welcome to the world of TheOneBigWill has determined you need a lesson in dissecting.

Here we go...lol...

How is he? It's a simple question, with no logical answer. He's punished and tore apart people easily smaller, and older than he was. His most brutal, sadistic moments.. came at the hands of a one legged teenager, and a senior citizen.

If Brock will do that to people that can't defend themselves, what will he do to someone who can pose a threat to him? Answer: Worse. Brock turns his aggression on and off. He never loses composure and finds ways to hurt you, hence winning the match.

That's because Edge never got the chance to beat the holy shit outta a one legged teenager, like Lesnar. How can Edge match that? He once threw a midget in a trash can, and then in a dumpster.. does that count? It was pretty sadistic, as far as that word connects you people to Lesnar.

That's not Brock's fault. Brock Lesnar seen an opportunity to hurt someone, and he did. He'll do the same to Edge, and with Barb Wire mind you.

Truth is though, Edge IS as sadistic, and even by leaps and bounds more so.. he's done far more sadistic things than Lesnar's ever dreamed of. I mentioned several of these moments above.. scroll up and re-read.

I'll give it to you that Edge can be as sadistic, but it doesn't match up to Lesnar. What Lesnar can do to someone is more dangerous than what Edge can do. A conchairto can get you, but so can an F5, numerous powerbombs, and suplexes.

If you have Lesnar "sadistic" moments, that doesn't include beating up a senior citizen, or a one legged teenager.. show me, direct me, I'll check it out.

No need for a direct link. Watch any of Brock's matches with the Hardy Boyz when he first debuted, and watch some of his matches with The Rock. Rock is 275, and Brock did a number on the People's Champion, something that's not been done to the Rock, by anyone.

I'd say wanting to WIN the match is a pretty good game-plan. Wouldn't you?

It is if your Brock Lesnar. If you're Edge, you're game plan would change to finding a way out of here that's not on a stretcher.

So.. Lesnar wants to inflict pain, Edge wants to win.. who's this favoring, again? The guy who just wants to inflict punishment.. or the guy who doesn't care how much punishment he takes, as long as he wins in the end?

Yea, no. Edge wants to win when he starts the match, but once Brock shows him the Barbed Wire a couple of times and starts just beating on Edge, then the game plan changes and Edge won't be able to take the punishment given to him by Brock.

Yeah.. Edge wins.

Not against Lesnar...not with Barbed Wire

He's also a guy who got cut by the Minnesota Vikings, before training camp, because he wasn't strong enough, or good enough, to make their roster. Regardless, all of this is...

Irrelevant. This match-up is all about both when they were in the W.W.E. - not anything else.

It is when you factor in tolerance of pain. Brock Lesnar can tolerate and take more punishment than Edge. Edge's body isn't made to be thrown around and be shoved into Barbed wire. No one's is, but Brock's body could handle it better. Too big and muscular.

Lesnar beat Undertaker during one of the worst stages of his career, and barely used the gimmick(s) involved. He's lost numerous matches to lesser talented and easily smaller sized athletes than he.. (Holly, Guerrero, Angle, Benoit, R.V.D, etc)

Lesnar beat an Undertaker that was on the top of his game. Deadman Inc. was the real side of Taker, Mark Calloway, and Lesnar beat the American Bad Ass down. And Edge is 6'5, 245. Edge is only smaller in weight, not height.

Lesnar's also never dealt with barbwire. Edge has. Advantage in knowledge - Edge.

That's no advantage. NONE of the wrestlers have dealt with the ROPES being surrounded by it. Edge touched it a little bit and controlled it. You can control being thrown into a barbed wire rope set up.

He took two chair shots from two guys with noodle arms. It's about the equivalent of a fly, flying into my face and claiming he bitch-slapped me. Lesnar was brushed by a pair of flies, not two guns..

Fair enough. But those were two brutal shots, no matter who they came from. And a chair shot is a chair shot, and Edge's chair shots are no worse than Matt or Jeff's.

Edge and Taker went back and forth in that match, and I'd hardly say Taker dominated him. Edge got in sizeable amounts of pain and punishment, dished onto the Undertaker just the same.

Wasn't enough to win wasn't it? And against a man who was beaten by Brock Lesnar. Brock matched the intensity of Taker and beat him at his own game. Edge wasn't up to snuff with Taker OR Brock in a real match.

HE WAS SENT TO HELL! How is Hell not worse than Barbwire?! Flames shot up from the hole he fell into.. the guy was burnt alive for all we know!

And he came back in mere months, to win another Heavyweight Championship - mind you.. Thats dedication.

I'll give you this one. Fire > Barb wire

Because Lesnar doesn't use the hardcore environment to his advantage, and acts scared to do so...

Seriously.. watch all of his gimmick matches, he barely uses any of what's given to him. Edge, on the other hand.. uses everything given and then some.

Brock didn't need the weapons. He used his power and meanness to beat up people, but in a Barbed Wire ring, how can Brock NOT use that as a weapon?

There is always opportunity. You just have to look for it.

Not for Edge. Not against Lesnar

How will it be impossible to avoid? Yes, he'll take punishment.. but need I remind you, past his prime or not.. Mick Foley still inflicted some heavy damage to Edge.. Edge toughed it out, and won.

Against a man who was past his prime, and who needed the weapons just to compete with Edge. Brock doesn't even need the weapons, but will use them.

The match ended by Edge spearing Foley through a flaming table, for sakes! Edge burnt himself, to win the match. Edge is willing to put his body through hell (literally, if you think about that HIAC match) to seek out a victory.

It's not an Inferno match. it's Barbed wire.

Meh.. you're using this understanding as if Edge wouldn't have any offense in this match. If you've watched one Wrestling match, you've watched a thousand.

I know Edge will have some advantages in the match and may even send Brock into the barbed wire a few times. But this will only piss Lesnar off. Edge would freak out in Barbed wire, Lesnar would try to rip it off of him.

Each man gets an advantage, and opportunity to inflict punishment on their opponent. This means, each man will trade off.. and in the end, once again.. Edge has dealt with pain and torture in gimmick matches (including Barbwire attacks) before.. Lesnar, has not. Advantage.. Edge.

Who can deal more punishment? Answer: Lesnar.

He's also notorious for losing to smaller Wrestlers, and constantly losing when people don't expect him to.

Null and void. Edge is NOT a small wrestler.

Once again, there is ALWAYS an opportunity. Edge will seek it out, find it, exploit it, and use it to win.

Not against Brock. The opportunity will be long gone.

Besides any of that, you can be as tough as you want, all it takes is a simple roll-up to gain victory. Edge is crafty, smart and sneaky. Who's to say he wouldn't wrap Lesnar up in Barbwire, then roll him up for a quick 3-count.

I've never seen Edge win a match with a simple roll-up. Brock can do so many things to hurt Edge and Brock is just as crafty as Edge.

This is just a naive, ignorant statement. Lariat, you're a very good poster - no question.. but saying Edge stands NO chance.. is just dumb-founding.

Well...Edge does stand a fighting chance...but it's not a good one against Brock Lesnar.

Where there's a Will, there's a way. Hi, I'm Will.. and a vote for Edge is the only way.

For you, maybe. I'll be content with voting for Lesnar.

Don't worry, Lariat, you're still a good poster. Just misguided views - that's all.

Fair enough. But I can relate to backing one's fav wrestler. If Stan Hansen were in this with Brock Lesnar, I'd find EVERY way to find out how Hansen could win this match. In the end, he may not be favored, but I'd still take Hansen any day of the damn week. Much like you should do for Edge. But I think Edge goes home in this match.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Here we go...lol...

Just another post to dissect.

If Brock will do that to people that can't defend themselves, what will he do to someone who can pose a threat to him? Answer: Worse. Brock turns his aggression on and off. He never loses composure and finds ways to hurt you, hence winning the match.

Two things, replies to your first question, and then to your ending statement.

First, in reply to the Question; If Brock will do that to people that can't defend themselves, what will he do to someone who can pose a threat to him?

The answer you're looking for is..

Not nearly as much, because they pose a threat. Duh. Lesnar was aggressive, and sadistic to (the key word you pointed out) helpless victims.. not anyone who could've defended themselves. Thus, because outside of those two individuals (the kid and the old man) Lesnar hasn't been that rough, or sadistic with anyone else.. indicating, he can't.

He can't match the same level of sadisticness against someone who can fight back.. Edge can, and will, fight back.

Now, to the statement at the end.. about how he never loses composure. Yes, he does. Yes, he has. It's happened against guys like Kurt Angle. (someone Edge has held more victories against than almost anyone else, mind you)

Edge has rattled guys like Angle, and Angle has rattled guys like Lesnar. You do the six degrees of kevin bacon.. err, separation.

That's not Brock's fault. Brock Lesnar seen an opportunity to hurt someone, and he did. He'll do the same to Edge, and with Barb Wire mind you.

He seen an opening to attack a defenseless individual. This will hardly be the same thing. Edge isn't helpless, and damn sure isn't defenseless.

Lesnar goes into this match with the mind-set You are trying to give him, and he loses on the basis that he's going in with this delusion that he's unbeatable.. then gets beat.

I'll give it to you that Edge can be as sadistic, but it doesn't match up to Lesnar. What Lesnar can do to someone is more dangerous than what Edge can do. A conchairto can get you, but so can an F5, numerous powerbombs, and suplexes.

Once again, yes.. those things can be affective and hurt.. a lot. But you act as if Edge is just going to willingly allow Lesnar to have free will over doing all that to him.

And don't misunderstand Edge's power behind chair shots. He didn't become a master at using chairs for nothing.

No need for a direct link. Watch any of Brock's matches with the Hardy Boyz when he first debuted, and watch some of his matches with The Rock. Rock is 275, and Brock did a number on the People's Champion, something that's not been done to the Rock, by anyone.

Except; Steve Austin, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker, Hulk Hogan, Ken Shamrock, Triple H, and Mick Foley.

Oh, wait.. no.. I guess you are right.. all of those guys beat The Rock when he was still solely just a Professional Wrestler. Lesnar defeated The Rock, when he was more of a Hollywood Actor. My bad, you're right..

So that makes destroying a child, a guy close to death, and an actor. Nice accomplishments.

It is if your Brock Lesnar. If you're Edge, you're game plan would change to finding a way out of here that's not on a stretcher.

Edge's game plan wouldn't be any different than what he's done going into match-ups against the Undertaker, Kane, or anyone else bigger and stronger than he is.

And Edge's defeated all of them.. so I fail to see how Lesnar is such an impossibility. And quit using the logic that none of those matches were barbwire. You saying that, makes it seem like Lesnar is unbeatable in barbwire matches.. when Edge, ironically.. IS undefeated in matches where barbwire has been at least used.. while Lesnar hasn't even felt what it's like yet.

Yea, no. Edge wants to win when he starts the match, but once Brock shows him the Barbed Wire a couple of times and starts just beating on Edge, then the game plan changes and Edge won't be able to take the punishment given to him by Brock.

He's taken the punishment that guys similar have given him. He's taken hell by the Undertaker. He's taking torture by the Cerebral Assassin. I'm sure he can take The Next Big Thing as well.

And once again, you're acting as if Lesnar and barbwire are unbeatable. They aren't.. because they've never been.. and if you use the only true logic you can, Lesnar couldn't possibly win.. cause he doesn't use the environment that's surrounding him. (Look at the Hell in a Cell match, and how he avoided using the Cell)

Not against Lesnar...not with Barbed Wire

Oye.. yes, and yes. I'm just not gonna repeat myself about how Lesnar is not undefeatable just because barbwire comes into.. ah hell, I just did it.

It is when you factor in tolerance of pain. Brock Lesnar can tolerate and take more punishment than Edge. Edge's body isn't made to be thrown around and be shoved into Barbed wire. No one's is, but Brock's body could handle it better. Too big and muscular.

If you're using outside forces, then Lesnar isn't half as tough as you think he is. Nor is he as strong. I'm actually not going to get into any of this though - because as the so-called rules state.. this tournament is strictly about their prime in Professional Wrestling.

So, it actually is still irrelevant.

And by Wrestling terms, while I'd still give the punishment factor (as in who can take more) to Lesnar, barely. The fact is, Edge is way more resilient. He's taken huge amounts of punishment throughout his entire career.

Look at what everyone repeatedly says about Edge.. he's the uncrowned king of the gimmick match. What's a gimmick match? It's pain, it's torture, it's tolerance to taken punishment.. if Edge is it's king.. then Lesnar would be below him.

Lesnar beat an Undertaker that was on the top of his game. Deadman Inc. was the real side of Taker, Mark Calloway, and Lesnar beat the American Bad Ass down. And Edge is 6'5, 245. Edge is only smaller in weight, not height.

No, incorrect, and without question completely bogus. This is just plain and simply wrong.

The Undertaker, himself, has said in interviews and quotes (one of which is on WZ's main page - in which Taker calls the Deadman/Badass gimmick pure shit) that during that era of his career, it was awful and he was no where near his best.

Lesnar beat a shell of what the Undertaker truly is. Lesnar has never faced the true Deadman. The man with the ability to take in-human amounts of torture and pain, only to sit up and constantly play mind-games with his opponents.

Lesnar dealt with the "human" version of the Undertaker, the version that also needs to be addressed - LOST every match, excluding Wrestlemania, that was ever important. (INCLUDING a match to Mr. McMahon, in a buried alive contest!)

So no, Lesnar did most certainly NOT defeat the Undertaker everyone loves. He defeated some guy, who almost retired because what he had to deal with - was pure shit, in his OWN words.

That's no advantage. NONE of the wrestlers have dealt with the ROPES being surrounded by it. Edge touched it a little bit and controlled it. You can control being thrown into a barbed wire rope set up.

This is actually what I've been saying. NONE of the Wrestlers currently involved in this match, have dealt with the ropes being replaced by barbwire.. yet Edge has at least dealt with barbwire, as a whole. Lesnar has not.

Lesnar's mind won't be fully focused on Edge, purely because part of it will question how that first initial contact with the barbwire will be like. Edge already knows, thus he can focus fully on Lesnar.. and helping him, quicker, to understand the true pain that barbwire is.

Fair enough. But those were two brutal shots, no matter who they came from. And a chair shot is a chair shot, and Edge's chair shots are no worse than Matt or Jeff's.

Try explaining that to Ric Flair, during the Rated R.K.O period.. when Edge bashed in Flair's skull, and wore his blood as a symbol of accomplishment.

Edge's chair shots are the most extreme chair shots around, with exception to Balls Mahoney (Mike Awesome or Tanaka) whom none of which are in this match.. thus, Edge's chair shots are very damaging, and definitely worse than either of what the Hardy's could dish out.

Wasn't enough to win wasn't it? And against a man who was beaten by Brock Lesnar. Brock matched the intensity of Taker and beat him at his own game. Edge wasn't up to snuff with Taker OR Brock in a real match.

Edge defeated the Undertaker countless times before this match, though. Including defeating the Undertaker in a match that is more important than any other a Wrestler could have.. one in which their career is on the line.

Edge ended the Undertaker's career.. only to watch his bitch Wife bring Taker back, and punish her cheating Husband by way of Hell in a Cell.

Yes, Edge lost.. no secret.. but Edge's victories over Taker over-shadow his loss and subsequent trip to hell. (that he also over-came.. let's see Lesnar do THAT! Lesnar couldn't even overcome a trip to Minnesota. )

Brock didn't need the weapons. He used his power and meanness to beat up people, but in a Barbed Wire ring, how can Brock NOT use that as a weapon?

That's just it though.. in a Hell in a Cell, you'd have assumed there'd be no way he could avoid using the Cell.. but somehow he did. Lesnar is a mat technician. Thus, he'll try to center Edge in the middle of the ring.

He won't want any part of getting near the barbwire. Sure, he might wanna send Edge into it.. but Edge's entire game plan will revolve around making sure Lesnar feels it just as much, if not way more.

Whereas Lesnar's game plan will be to out-wrestle, and out-power his opponent - in the center of the ring.

Not for Edge. Not against Lesnar

Yes for Edge. Yes against Lesnar.

Against a man who was past his prime, and who needed the weapons just to compete with Edge. Brock doesn't even need the weapons, but will use them.

You'd think so, but he truly hasn't any other time he's had the opportunity for the most part.

It's not an Inferno match. it's Barbed wire.

Edge is sadistic enough to attempt lighting the barbwire on fire, then Spearing Lesnar into it.. Mick Foley style.

And Lesnar will take it.. like the bitch that he is.

I know Edge will have some advantages in the match and may even send Brock into the barbed wire a few times. But this will only piss Lesnar off. Edge would freak out in Barbed wire, Lesnar would try to rip it off of him.

Again, you don't know that. You only assume, based purely off Lesnar's aggression. You haven't truly seen Lesnar in a role where he's been dominated.

Before I get replies of You see, that's because there haven't been any! Uhm.. no.. it's because most of the time, people don't try to punish Lesnar, they just beat him when the opportunity arises.

:O There's that word again.. Opportunity.. and that's the key. Edge won't waste time testing how Lesnar reacts to barbwire, he'll just beat him when the opening suits the situation. And there will always be openings.

Who can deal more punishment? Answer: Lesnar.

Who has withstood more punishment in hardcore elements? Answer: Edge.

Your point? Lesnar is a truck, Edge is a wall..

Go find a truck, drive it into a wall.. the truck won't run any more without repairing it.. the wall, depending on how strong it is, might still be standing. Regardless of how much punishment the truck gave it.

Null and void. Edge is NOT a small wrestler.

Well he's hardly Lesnar's size, now is he?

And he point is.. Edge is similar in size to the likes of Angle, Benoit, Guerrero, and Van Dam.. all of which, have defeated Lesnar.

Not against Brock. The opportunity will be long gone.

Ugh.. it's like banging my head against a brick wall with this one. This is like the 4856498707009730967307 time you've used this unprovable point. Stop it, already.

I've never seen Edge win a match with a simple roll-up. Brock can do so many things to hurt Edge and Brock is just as crafty as Edge.

Lesnar isn't as crafty as Edge, because he doesn't have to be. That much I give Lesnar, his brute strength wins him matches.. he isn't a thinker, he's a brawler, a fighter.

But thinkers beat brawlers, a lot more than brawlers beat thinkers.

Well...Edge does stand a fighting chance...but it's not a good one against Brock Lesnar.

It's like you said..

Not against Brock. The opportunity will be long gone.

.. all over again.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Like that's gonna make replying to things simpler. You still have to contend with me, and I'm like three separate matches in one anyways.

It's like a goddamn million matches in one, honestly.

This is without question the dumbest logic in this entire thing. Most people backing Lesnar, are doing so because they think Lesnar is sadistic. How?

Answering your own question in 3... 2... 1...

Wait, wait.. because he F-5'ed a one legged 19 year old into a ring post? Wow, that took a lot of effort.

So, wait, you're condoning attacking amputees, Will? 'Cos I'll go down to the hospital right now and tell the nurses that you sent me after I start beating up their diabetes patients.

Edge beat Ric Flair to a bloody pulp. He's kicked Matt Hardy's head so far in, that the officials had to stop the match.

Pfft. They were fine. They're both just such dramatic bleeders that if you pat them on the head they'll start gushing away.

He speared Mick Foley through a flaming table, burning not only his own body, but Foley's as well.

That spot was underwhelming. The table burned for about a half second. All that happened was Foley singing his arm hair.

He straight up made Terry Funk think about permanently retiring. He's ended Undertaker's career once. (hey, it counts)

He also spent a few months in Hell. I wonder what it was like. He never said, did he?

He's speared a helpless Jeff Hardy 20 (plus) feet in the air.

Who hasn't speared a helpless Jeff Hardy twenty feet in the air? Though I think, in reality, it was about fifteen feet tops.

While I agree with your logic on picking on midgets, it's not the same in the world of Professional Wrestling. Watch the Sabu/Funk match.. Funk is like, what, 90 during that time.. and yet he easily pushes and shoves a guy in better shape, and condition around with ease.

You used ease twice. And he really doesn't. Sabu only ends up going in the ropes because the stupid cunt jumps at everybody. I don't see Lesnar running up a chair and jumping off at his opponent.

Lesnar is built better than Edge, but as far as weight goes.. Lesnar is a whooping 15 pounds heavier than Edge.. not really what I'd consider a size-able weight difference, especially considering Edge has "man-handled" the Undertaker, and Taker weighs more than Lesnar.

You're not seriously comparing the way Edge manhandled Undertaker to the way Lesnar manhandled him, are you?

If this is still an issue for you.. I urge you to watch the only Edge/Lesnar video there is.. and you'll see Edge actually push Lesnar around. (holy shit, I know, right?) So it's entirely possible, and very probable.. that Edge not only can push and shove Lesnar just as much.. but theoretically.. more.

You're gonna have to pick a prime for Edge. Is it the one where he's actually decent but never actually wins? Or is it the one where he's opportunistic and wins every third match by coming up with some elaborate plan?

You just answered your own query, Brock Lesnar hasn't had any interaction with Barbwire. So chances are, he's going to be more afraid of the possible danger of it.. than a man like Edge, who fully knows coming in, what it can do to you.

And will thusly shit himself, thinking "No, Jesus! Please! Not again! Plea-ease!".

Furthermore, I think you're adding a bit much to this whole "he cried for about half an hour" bit. (The whole match didn't last half an hour, Sam, geez.)

Alright, I used a little hyperbole. But he had a little gash in his shoulder and then stumbled round in shock for what I reckon was at least two minutes. It was enough time to let Foley pull some pliers out of his ass, cut the barbed wire off himself, take his jacket off, celebrate and then whip him with some more barbed wire.

In all seriousness though.. did Edge feel pain from it? Fuck yes. Go cut yourself with barbwire and tell me it doesn't hurt.

I have. I was more like "Ouch, that hurts" than going into shock though. It was in my leg and everything. I'm sure Sabu feels the same.

However, did Edge quit when he got sliced open? Uhm, NO.. he not only continued the match.. he continued, fully knowing he could get cut up worse. (ie. aggression, and balls) It was following this, that he continued to take more punishment. (ie. endurance, and resiliency) And in the end, still won the match.

Well, Foley was actually dominating pretty roundly when Lita punched him in the balls, allowing Edge to get an - wait for it - opportunistic spear.

So.. what makes Lesnar and Edge different? Edge persevered. He continued through the pain, dealt with the pain, and won the fucking match. Lesnar's never been in this environment, thus he doesn't know what to expect.

Well, really, strictly speaking, neither's Edge. Foley brought in a couple of pieces of barbed wire - not the same thing as a ring wrapped in it.

The only gimmick matches Lesnar's ever been in, most of them he's stayed away from the environment. He's made sure that the weapons involved in those gimmicks, weren't used on him, or in general.. he'd rather rely on his own abilities.. and that's his downside.

So, basically, Lesnar will lose because he's so good at negating the environment he's in and winning anyway? That probably is his Achilles' heel, yeah.

Edge doesn't have an issue using the barbwire.. Lesnar acts afraid of gimmick matches, because he doesn't embrace them.

I think he embraced Hell in a Cell pretty well, leaving The Undertaker a bloody mess and that. I mean, at least he didn't get sent to Hell at the end of the match. Always a plus.

He doesn't use them to his advantage, he tries to act as if they aren't even there. (Look at the Hell in a Cell match.. he barely, if at all, used the Cell as a weapon)

Still absolutely fucked 'Taker up, didn't he? I mean, he left a dent in the man's head from some stairs.

It's gonna be really hard for Lesnar to ignore barbwire replacing the ropes, the first time Edge throws him into them.

It'll be even harder to ignore when he has to pin a guy he's overpowered and literally wrapped in barbed wire, a la Terry Funk. It'll probably sting his chest.

Once again, you act like Lesnar being bigger, and stronger.. will make Edge weaker, or somehow 'wuss-like'. How can this be accurate?

Have... have you been watching Edge the past few years?

Wait, the rest of this isn't actually directed at me, is it? I'll just leave this here then.

 

[Tastycles]

This argument is tiresome. Edge tried to isolate Heyman in that match, and Lesnar out thought Edge in the long run. Edge I guess was the ultimate opportunist all the way back in 2002. Luckily for Brock Lesnar, he managed to out smart Edge (amazing how a one dimensional oaf manages to outsmart all of these supposed wiley Veterans) and retain. The end of the match was Brock walking out with the WWE title still.

I don't reallt see how you can outsmart someone in a handicap match when you have the numbers. Edge has to go for one of them, probably the weaker one, and it is up to Lesnar to take him out. Lesnar took 25 minutes to do that, which isn't outsmarting him at all, it's being too ******ed to understand what he had to do to end the match quickly.

Slow clap...Edge beat a Vader five years out of his prime, and a Mick Foley that was retired from main time action for 6 years. It's not like Brock hasn't wrestled in gimmick matches, and came out victorious in all of them. Biker Chain match, Hell in the Cell, Stretcher Match, Iron Man match, make your pick, Brock won them all.

Not one of them is remotely similar to this, with the exception of perhaps the hell in a cell. Edge has wrestled in far more conventional hardcore rules matches than Lesnar and thus would be better suited to this match up.

Yeah, I'm sure the Undertaker thought that as well, and he lost both a Hell in the Cell and a Biker Chain match to Brock. Not only did he lose Hell in the Cell, he was dominated in that match.

So dominated that the finish was his finisher getting reversed? The Undertaker has been in 8 singles hell in a cell matches and lost 4 of them, he doesn't always win. Lesnar went over Taker in their feud, fair enough, but The Undertaker isn't a gimmick match winner and never has been really.

Edge is a good wrestler, and I'm not going to spend too much time trying to bash him because I enjoy him, he's simply outmatched here. He's in an enclosed environement with a monster of a man that did more in his first 7 1/2 months in the WWE then Edge did in his first 7 1/2 years.

Exactly, Lesnar's career burnt the candle at both ends and didn't even reach 2 years. Edge patiently built experience and craft all the way up through the ranks beating all kinds of people along the way, while Lesnar just got thrown in at the deep end, swam for a bit then drowned.

Edge is far too clever to try and go for Lesnar, and it will be a case of Lesnar trying to catch him early. It only takes one mistimed move from either for them to get completely nailed, and Lesnar, still green though the vast majority of his career, is more likely to make such a mistake.

 

[Marquis]

Edge has my vote. The setting for the match benefits edge much more then it benefits Lesnar. Edge would feel comfortable in a match like this, while Lesnar would not. Lesnar was trying to escape the HIAC match against the Undertaker at no mercy. Inexperience came into play. Sure Lesnar toughed it out, and won in the end, but it showed his mental resolve during that type of match can be broken. I would wager it would be much more easily broken in a barbwire match. In a barbwire match you are literally a few feet away from a horribly disfiguring injury. If Lesnar started to panic in a match where he was surrounded by a cage, then it will damn sure happen in a much more deadlier match where you're surrounded by barbwire.

Now I'm sure maybe some will bring up the fact that he was in a HIAC match with The Undertaker. A HIAC veteran and one of the most feared entity's in kayfabe wrestling. Although he did have the badass American gimmick, which was a low point in his career compared to his deadman gimmick. If Lesnar feared being in a HIAC match with the American badass, then I'm sure he'll have some form of doubt going into a barbwire match with Edge. In his prime Edge is a veteran of hardcore gimmick matches who will go to any lengths to secure a win. A well known fact. If these two were to ever square off in their primes, then Lesnar would be well aware of this. Lesnar would know hes out of his element here, while Edge would be much more comfortable.

All it takes is one counter or an opening for Edge to destroy Lesnar. Lesnar can throw Edge into barbwire all he wants, but its gonna take quite a few to take Edge down. Edge, as Will pointed out, was sent into a pit of fire, and came back in mere months to win a title. Edge has taken constant beatings from weapons and wrestlers a like through out his whole career. His resilience will keep him going. Once Edge manages to counter one of Lesnar's moves, or find an opening. Lesnar will break. Edge would not let up on his assault, and will downright disfigure Lesnar with the barbwire.

 

[Loveless]

If Edge escaped this with his life intact he'd be lucky. Brock wins this decisively as there's practically nothing Edge can do to beat him.

 

[NSL]

I am not going to go over the entire argument I had with Will in the general discussion, but I'm voting Lesnar. Edge will be stuck in the ring, with nowhere to go, while Lesnar has all the chances in the world to feast on him. Edge will be bleeding more than Flair in a main event, and will lose, no matter how you figure the match to go...

 

[justinsayne]

Lesnar should win this easily, Edge's key finisher is the spear, if Lesnar ducks out of the way, you know what happens Edge launches himself into the barbwire Lesnar pulls him out of the barbwire power bombs the fuck out of him him then picks him up and F-5's Edges ass onto the Barbwire, end of match Lesnar walks out the winner

 

[BooCocky]

I'm taking Edge and I am using the same Edge who used the Edge Heads to outsmart Undertaker... I'm going to use the logic of two heads are better than one... As long as they can distract Lesnar I believe Edge would pick up the victory...Edge wins with help from the family...

 

[Uncle Sam]

I'm taking Edge and I am using the same Edge who used the Edge Heads to outsmart Undertaker...

The same Edge that then lost a week later to Batista in a handicap match with the Edge heads on side? Yeah, OK.

I'm going to use the logic of two heads are better than one... As long as they can distract Lesnar I believe Edge would pick up the victory...Edge wins with help from the family...

If we're calling in help from old friends, I'm sure Paul Heyman or Kurt Angle would be happy to help out. Really, this logic is just silly.

Edge would feel comfortable in a match like this, while Lesnar would not.

Yeah, comfortable. That's how I'd describe Edge. Y'know, when he's not trying to pull out his hair or waving his arms around like a four year old that's been given to much Coca Cola.

Lesnar was trying to escape the HIAC match against the Undertaker at no mercy. Inexperience came into play. Sure Lesnar toughed it out, and won in the end, but it showed his mental resolve during that type of match can be broken.

You've contradicted yourself right there. "Lesnar's mental resolve will be broken and cost him, like it did in that match with the guy that's never been described with "the master of mind games"... no, wait..."

If Lesnar started to panic in a match where he was surrounded by a cage, then it will damn sure happen in a much more deadlier match where you're surrounded by barbwire.

I've never seen Lesnar panic. I've seen him get frustrated and aggressive, but that usually ends up with his opponent lying in a pool of their own blood.

Now I'm sure maybe some will bring up the fact that he was in a HIAC match with The Undertaker. A HIAC veteran and one of the most feared entity's in kayfabe wrestling. Although he did have the badass American gimmick, which was a low point in his career compared to his deadman gimmick.

Well, not really. His win/loss ratio was pretty impressive back then.

If Lesnar feared being in a HIAC match with the American badass, then I'm sure he'll have some form of doubt going into a barbwire match with Edge. In his prime Edge is a veteran of hardcore gimmick matches who will go to any lengths to secure a win. A well known fact.

Well, he's decisively lost quite a few high profile gimmick matches. John Cena and The Undertaker are two people that come to mind. Certainly, Lesnar's not adverse to "doing anything".

If these two were to ever square off in their primes, then Lesnar would be well aware of this. Lesnar would know hes out of his element here, while Edge would be much more comfortable.

So, instead of being, like I said, a hyper four year old like he always is when he's outmatched, Edge would be cool as a cucumber, sitting the corner and sipping from a cocktail?

All it takes is one counter or an opening for Edge to destroy Lesnar.

You've confused the names. No, seriously.

Lesnar can throw Edge into barbwire all he wants, but its gonna take quite a few to take Edge down.

Do I have to bring up the "Edge sat there for three minutes, looking like he was having a heart attack last time he touched barbed wire" argument again?

Edge, as Will pointed out, was sent into a pit of fire, and came back in mere months to win a title.

You're shitting me, right?

Edge has taken constant beatings from weapons and wrestlers a like through out his whole career. His resilience will keep him going.

Like it usually does. Wait, no. It was Lita that allowed him to beat a past-it Foley, and he definitely wasn't getting up after Cena or Undertaker had their way with him. He was out for months after that, you know. Hardly resilient.

Once Edge manages to counter one of Lesnar's moves, or find an opening. Lesnar will break.

Yeah, but no he won't.

 

[NSL]

I'm taking Edge and I am using the same Edge who used the Edge Heads to outsmart Undertaker... I'm going to use the logic of two heads are better than one... As long as they can distract Lesnar I believe Edge would pick up the victory...Edge wins with help from the family...

In barbwire ropes matches, there's rarely, if ever, help from the outside. Edge would be too big of a pussy to climb through the barbwire to get in the ring, so what makes you think the "Edgeheads" would be OK with it? All Lesnar would have to do to stop them, is just toss them into the barbwire. Then, he can pick them up, and use them as a weapon against Edge.

 

[Shocky]

Yay, debate with Will. Will, I'm pretty sure that you and I are going to lose everyone else in our ramblings back and forth, so bare with me.

Wait, so are you saying it's a bad thing that he tried isolating the weaker, smaller and easier to beat Heyman? How is that a bad thing? It shows he was using his head.

And yes, Lesnar came out the victor. Against a not yet in his prime version of Edge. Barely. So tell me, how a guy fully in his prime (Lesnar) could give all he had, and just barely find a way to pull out a victory, over a guy still coming into his own.. find a way to win this match - when both are meant to be considered in their prime?

What I'm saying is that Edge had a chance to win the WWE Championship from Brock lesnar, by not having to beat Brock lesnar. All Edge had to do was beat Paul Heyman, which in reality shouldn't have been that hard to do. Lesnar was good enough to keep heyman from being pinned by Edge. A 2 on 1 with Heyman as your partner is more like a handicap match in favor of Edge.

As far as Edge and his prime, I would say his physical prime would have been back in the early parts of his decade. Edge in 2002 was about as good as he was, before the injuries started. I'm sure you remember, that even back then (2003-2004) Edge couldn't stay healthy and could have very easily became a Kennedy or Ahmed Johnson. Edge's body was his glass jaw, and the physical wrestling side of him faded. He became a better mental wrestler, but I think less of a physical threat since then. Again, my opinion, you probably see it differently.

Just like I mentioned earlier, I say one more time. Lesnar acts scared of gimmick matches. Watch them closer.. he barely uses his surroundings to his advantage.

His Hell in a Cell match.. how many times did he use the actual Cell? The Chain match.. (not excluding the help he had by Mr. McMahon, mind you) how much did he use the chain? Once??

The same thing qualifies for all the rest. Stretcher, Cell, Chain, Hardcore, etc, etc.. how often have you seen Lesnar actually use what's given to him? Not very often. But why?

It's one of two things.

1. Lesnar's cocky and arrogant in believing that his body and natural abilities are good enough, that he doesn't need to use the gimmicks that surround the ring, or are made legal for the match.

2. Lesnar is afraid of bringing gimmicks into the match, for fear they could be used worse against him.. then he could ever use them against his opponents.

So once again, I implore you to look at the difference between the gimmick strong Edge, and the collegian experienced Lesnar.

Edge is arrogant and cocky, no question. But he's definitely NOT above using the barbwire, or any other weapon he can get his hands on.. Lesnar, on the other hand - seems more confident in trying to stay as far away from weapons, (barbwire included) as possible.

If anything.. Lesnar seems like the guy who'd be worried and scared of this match, far more than Edge ever would be.

I still fail to see how Lesnar failed to use his surrounding. He was tossing the Undertaker around ragged from pillar to cage in that match. Undertaker was destroyed by Lesnar and everything Lesnar literally threw at him. Remember the chair shots to break the cast of the Undertaker's arm? Remember the Steel Steps being driven into the side of his head and making him bleed like a stuffed pig? Remember lesnar climbing to the top of the turnbuckle, grabbing the top of the cage, and then pjutting everything into kicking the Undertaker. If that is Lesnar not using his srurroundings, then I'm pretty damn scared of what will hapen when he uses the surrounding.

Hell, even in the stretcher match, Brock ended up using a forklift to secure the victory over the Big Show. The guy will use his environment to win.

Slight correction.. The Undertaker didn't lose that match.. a gimmick by the term of The American Badass lost that match.

How does that make a difference? Easy.. even the Undertaker has went on record in saying that was his worst career moment(s) ever. The character was weaker than the Undertaker character, and as such.. it's no wonder Lesnar dominated him.

The true point to make here.. is how Edge has defeated the actual Undertaker character. You know, the Deadman.. the character that has the ability to no-sell, sit up, and come back from in-human amounts of pain.. yeah.. Edge beat that guy..

Lesnar beat a guy closely resembling this guy..

Palumbo, Will did you seriously compare the Undertaker to Chuck Palumbo, come on man you are way better then that.

The Undertaker may not have liked the American Bad ASs Gimmick, which from 2000-2001 was a terrible gimmick,b ut it doesn't change the fact that the man had his best year (arguable with 1997 I will admit) of his career.

When The Undertaker turned heel and became Booger Red or whatever the hell JR calls him, his pay per view record was damn near one of the best ever.

win vs. RVD
Loss vs. The Rock
Win vs. Ric Flair
Win vs. Steve Austin
Win vs. Hulk Hogan
Win vs. Triple H
Loss vs. Rock and Kurt Angle (wasn't pinned)
Win vs. Test
Draw vs. Brock lesnar
Loss vs. Brock Lesnar

He may not have liked the gimmick or what not, but I dare anyone to find a four month run of anybody that defeated the names in bold in back to back pay per views. In the end though, as great of a year that was for the Undertaker, he was dominated by Brock Lesnar, int eh Undertakers' own match. Edge was sent to hell by an Undertaker well into his 40's at that point.

Second, Shocky I respect every single bit of what you have to say.. but I'm not as happy-go-lucky to sing the praises of both men.

I liked Brock Lesnar, before I heard and seen the attitude and disrespectful nature he's shown to the world of Professional Wrestling. This falls outside the realm of this match, but it needs to be said..

Lesnar is not unbeatable. He's not immortal. He's not perfect, he's not even great. He's a muscle headed dip-shit, who got lucky because McMahon loved his size.. and the guy spent 'x' amount of years, on the ground, rolling around with other guys in college.

Talent? Yes. Respect? No. For that reason, and that reason alone.. I'll never vote for Brock Lesnar. He disrespects the industry that made him look a hell of a lot better than he'll EVER be.

As I've said before, I see countless Lesnar supporters all saying one thing.. He'd win because he's stronger. He'd win because he's unstoppable. He'd win because he doesn't fear this sorta thing. No, he's not unstoppable. No, he's not fearless. He's some punk little bitch, who allowed his head to overload his talent.

So in the end.. VOTE EDGE

See, this is what makes me so damn frustrated as a fan on the IWC. As fans, we tirelessly criticize the business, and the things that go on behind the scene. But what happenes. When a wrstler comes out and bashes a Triple H, you can damn sure bet that a big group of people will defend the guy and do everything in their power to discredit the source of information. I don't understand it.

Brock Lesnar spoke out against the business, and made a ton of valid points about the business. I fail to see why so many people think it is a sign of disrespect. The wrestling business has problems, and a ton of them. This guy is in a postition now where he is a bigger star then anyone in the WWE, and is bringing to light issues that the WWE wants to bury. I have no problem with Brock bashing the WWE and it's ridiculous road achedule.

Brock Lesnar would win because he is bigger, stronger, meander then Edge. All brock did in the WWE was win, and dominateing guys in the ring. Edge doesn't have the room to maneuver like he normally would Edge preferes flight to fight, and in this match, he has no where to go, at all. Both guys are going to do whatever they can to stay away from the Barbed wire, which plays into Brocksshands that much more. Edge doesn't have the strength to counter Brock when he's on the ground.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

It has already been established thus far that Brock Lesnar is physically superior to anyone in this tournament. Brock Lesnar is a scary combination of power and agility, the likes of which hadn't been seen before, and hasn't since. Lesnar is on a completely different level physically than anyone else I've ever seen. He's the kind of man that could run into a brick wall and make it hurt, the kind of man that could play chicken with a train and win. Brock Lesnar is simply the most physically outstanding man that I have ever seen in my life. In this match, he has Edge beat in strength and toughness by a mile and gives up nothing in speed or agility. Brock Lesnar is fearless, smart, and sadistic, a deadly combination in this match. This is the man that threw a kid with one leg down a flight of stairs and looked the Undertaker straight in the eyes without an sign of fear. He would not let up and give Edge an opening, nor would he be phased by any mind games.

This is a barbed-wire rope match, where the ropes are, obviously, covered with sharp barbed-wire. While Brock Lesnar has never had to deal with barbed wire in a match, it does not take much to know that it hurts and it is harmful to you. It also doesn't take much to know that you can seriously damage your opponent with it. The last time Edge had to deal with barbed-wire, he was a wimp about it. He was struck in the stomach with a barbed wire bat and proceeded to roll around on the ground, screaming like a small girl for five minutes. If I strike by a forty-five year old man can do that to Edge, what will a thirty year old, 275 pound bull throwing Edge into a twisted mess of wire do? All that Brock Lesnar really has to do in this match is stand in the middle of the ring and throw Edge into the ropes.

This is the match where the Immovable Object is also the Unstoppable Force... Lesnar. He's stronger, more resilient, more sadistic, more punishing... He's simply better. In this match, the larger man is just as fast and as agile as the smaller man. Brock Lesnar gives nothing away in this match, and that's why he wins. He's simply too much for Edge to handle.

Note: I didn't even need to discredit Edge in this post. I love the guy and believe he's a great wrestler, but he is just not as good as Brock Lesnar and he would not win this match. Period.

 

[Marquis]

Yeah, comfortable. That's how I'd describe Edge. Y'know, when he's not trying to pull out his hair or waving his arms around like a four year old that's been given to much Coca Cola.

How about when he snaps like he did against the Undertaker? When he snapped he took The Deadman straight on with a smile.

You've contradicted yourself right there. "Lesnar's mental resolve will be broken and cost him, like it did in that match with the guy that's never been described with "the master of mind games"... no, wait..."

The Deadman is the master of mind games. Not the American Badass as far as I'm aware of.

I've never seen Lesnar panic. I've seen him get frustrated and aggressive, but that usually ends up with his opponent lying in a pool of their own blood.

Then what would you call what happened in the HIAC match against the american badass? When he tried to kick the locked cage door down? Looked like panicking to me.

Well, not really. His win/loss ratio was pretty impressive back then.

That's fine, but can't be compared to the Deadman gimmick. The Deadman is this supposed super natural being who can rise up from most moves and no sell. The American Badass is no where near as threatening as the Deadman.

Well, he's decisively lost quite a few high profile gimmick matches. John Cena and The Undertaker are two people that come to mind. Certainly, Lesnar's not adverse to "doing anything".

Fair enough, but besides Cena, he took it to The Undertaker. He snapped and went into the match smiling and fearless. I'm sure against a beast like Lesnar in a barbwire match, he will come in the same state. Also would Lesnar go to the lengths edge goes? Edge put lighter fluid over Foley's body, and was attempting to set him on fire. Would Lesnar go to such lengths?

So, instead of being, like I said, a hyper four year old like he always is when he's outmatched, Edge would be cool as a cucumber, sitting the corner and sipping from a cocktail?

Would he be cool? Sure, as cool as you can be in a barbwire match, but he won't be sitting in the corner sipping a cocktail. He'll be sitting waiting to spear Lesnar.

You've confused the names. No, seriously.

Don't think so.

Do I have to bring up the "Edge sat there for three minutes, looking like he was having a heart attack last time he touched barbed wire" argument again?

Its been three years since then. It was his first time being in contact with barbwire. Now hes felt barbwire, and knows what to expect. Has Lesnar ever felt barbwire against his body and face?

You're shitting me, right?

Nope.

Like it usually does. Wait, no. It was Lita that allowed him to beat a past-it Foley, and he definitely wasn't getting up after Cena or Undertaker had their way with him. He was out for months after that, you know. Hardly resilient.

He was out months because he was thrown into a pit of fire. He was thrown into supposedly "hell". Most people die from that. Not edge.

Yeah, but no he won't.

I'm sure he will.

 

[Mr. TM]

I live on a farm as a kid. Lots of hard work goes into farm work. Lifting bales of hay, slashing brush, and putting up barb wire. One never clothes when he is putting up barbed wire. I will give you a reason. You move against it, and it will cut you open. It will cut you like a fucking knife. I know that, and I respect barbed wire. I know another man who has felt the piercing steel. That man is Edge. He will come into this match respecting the ropes of death. Lesnar hasn't learned to respect it yet. But he will. As it tears him apart, leaving Edge to pick up the pieces with a spear, just like a torero killing a bull.

The winner of this match, and the true Ultimate Opportunist has to be... Edge.