ECW Semi Final: 3 Stages of Hell: Steve Austin vs. Big Van Vader

[Shocky]

The following match is an ECW Semi-Final match, from the ECW Arena in Philadelphia, PA.

3 Stages of Hell. The first wrestler to win two of the following matches will be declared the winner.

Match 1; Extreme Rules. The typical ECW Match where the winner of the match is determined by Pinfall or Submission.

Match 2: Steel Cage: Unlike other Steel Cage matches, there is no escape victory. The winner of this match will be the one to score a pinfall or submission Victory.

Match 3: If needed Ladder Match: The Wrestler able to climb a ladder and retrieve the Briefcase will be declared the winner.

Stone Cold Steve Austin

vs.

Big Van Vader

 

[Uncle Sam]

This tournament is in kayfabe, right? Right then, it goes to the third match. It always does. Cosmic forces always, always make it happen, without exception. The first two matches, therefore, are irrelevant. This may as well just be a ladder match.

Austin says he has a beer belly, but he doesn't really. Vader does. Austin can therefore climb a ladder with more ease. Therefore, he wins.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

This tournament is in kayfabe, right? Right then, it goes to the third match. It always does.

Austin vs Dustin Rhodes didn't. First fall was a DQ, second was a pinfall.

Austin says he has a beer belly, but he doesn't really. Vader does. Austin can therefore climb a ladder with more ease. Therefore, he wins.

This makes no sense. None. It may as well be the Chewbacca Defense. Everything you're saying makes no sense.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Austin vs Dustin Rhodes didn't. First fall was a DQ, second was a pinfall.

The exception that proves the rule.

This makes no sense. None. It may as well be the Chewbacca Defense. Everything you're saying makes no sense.

OK, say that Austin and Vader have to race up the ladder - Austin will be considerably faster. The combination of being rotund and having short arms doesn't help one climb, nor swing, nor set up a ladder. A definite disadvantage.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Match 1; Extreme Rules. The typical ECW Match where the winner of the match is determined by Pinfall or Submission.

This is Vader's, easily. Austin isn't a hardcore wrestler, at all. He's tough, sure, but he's never been a hardcore guy. Austin is "hardcore" the way Flair is "the dirtiest player in the game." It only comes out in normal matches because they use the occassional eye gouge or low blow, or because Austin relies on "stomping a mud hole" and the Lou Thesz press with punches instead of the more "refined" wrestling holds.

Vader has been a hardcore guy, and he's succeeded. He's hurt guys. I keep referencing ttree biggest hardcore moments; the Strap Match with Sting, the Texas Death Match with Foley, and the Eye Match with Hansen. Everything about Vader from a kayfabe standpoint shows that he is the dominant force in this match.

Match 2: Steel Cage: Unlike other Steel Cage matches, there is no escape victory. The winner of this match will be the one to score a pinfall or submission Victory.

You're giving Vader a 250-lb Austin and letting him now throw him from pillar to post into steel mesh? Austin isn't going to last long. Forget Vader's lack of ability to climb a fence cage - Austin's prime still had him with bad knees, so he's in a rough way himself. And Vader could just walk through the door - or even better - pin Austin because he'll do a lot more damage.

Match 3: If needed Ladder Match: The Wrestler able to climb a ladder and retrieve the Briefcase will be declared the winner.

Austin in his prime rarely ever went higher than the 2nd rope. Vader is a top-rope master, so he's far more comfortable in high spots.

Furthermore, think of Vader charging the ladder while Austin is on it, and how fast the Vader train will derail Stunning Steve. Then, think of Vader's frame holding the ladder down with Austin trying to topple it. Two totally different animals. And if they are both on the ladder, who's got the best chance of throwing the other off?

Vader is also stronger than Austin, so he'll be able to utilize the ladder better. Think of a Vader Bomb and then a Vader splash from the ladder rungs. Good night Austin.

The prospect of having to "climb the ladder" is only relevant if you can incapacitate your opponent. Vader will do a shit load more damage, and can withstand as much or more.

Finally, Vader has had success in situations where he's had to wrestle multiple matches in one night. IWGP Tournament, he went 4-0 en route to a World Title. Austin had to go best-of-three with Triple H, and he lost. Undisputed Champion tournament? Lost to Jericho.

Austin is a draw, no question. But Vader in his prime would school Austin in a hardcore environment, and Vader should go on to meet the winner of Edge / Lesnar in the ECW finals.

 

[Big Sexy]

As far as the hardcore match goes, I think Vader has the advantage. It would not be easy by any means, but I think that Vader would get the win.

Going to the cage match it would seem that Vader would have the advantage, but Vader does not have a very good track record in cage matches. I honestly don't know if Vader has ever won a cage match. He has lost to Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair in one on one cage matches. He also lost along with Barry Windham and Paul Orndorff to Dustin Rhodes, Sting, and Cactus Jack. Austin has shown he can beat bigger guys in a cage as evident by his win over Rikishi in a cage match. Rikishi obviously isn't nearly as good as Vader, but it shows Austin is capable of beating someone bigger in a cage. I go with Austin in the cage.

Austin has only been in one ladder match in his career and Vader had never been in one until the last round of this tournament. It would obviously be easier for Austin to get up the ladder, but Vader has a huge strength advantage and Austin will be very weak by this point in the match. When it's all said and done Austin in his prime rarely, if ever lost a match without some kind of interference. Of course he was never in a match like this, but right now I'd have to go with Austin.

 

[Tastycles]

Austin.

The extreme rules match would probably go to Vader. The cage match would go to Austin. Firstly because Vader is rubbish at them, secondly because I can't remember Austin ever losing one. Then we have the ladder match. All I have to say about Vader and the ladder match has been exhausted elsewhere, but I will say that Austin got to the top of a ladder in the only handicap ladder match I've ever seen, only for the briefcase to be pulled away from him by mysterious forces.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

If this match goes to a third match, Steve Austin wins it. Not because of it being a Ladder match.. but because of it being a question of endurance. (*awaits Irish to dispute this*)

I have perfect proof that Vader can't handle a match going too long.. look at the Summerslam match, against a much smaller, much weaker, Shawn Michaels. Vader controlled the early parts of the match.. easy.. he dominated Shawn, forcing a countout. The match gets pushed to continue, because Vader wants it to.. so be it..

Due to Cornette, the second half of this original one-fall to a finish match, ends in a Disqualification.. once again, in Vader's favor. Shawn Michaels has been beaten within an inch of his life, Vader has barely been touched.. so he requests the match continue.. his request gets accepted.

The final portion of this match, the much weaker and smaller guy.. ends up winning, with a Moonsault. How is it, that a guy Irish has been promoting like a mad man, with missing eyes, and beer belly's.. lose to a sloppier version of his own move?! Simple.. he was gassed.

Thus.. you have to eliminate the third match from this aspect, because if it goes that far - Austin wins, automatically, just on the note that Vader won't last through endurance.

So, we look at the first two match-ups.

Hardcore Match: Austin gets the upper hand here. Why? Just because Vader's a bad-ass, doesn't mean Austin isn't. Irish flip flops on the footage he shows us.. but when exactly was Vader in his prime.. that's the question.

Austin was in his prime, when he was arguably leaving E.C.W, coming to the W.W.F, or possibly when he became Stone Cold Steve Austin. It's during this stage in his career, he was the most violent, brawling, "toughest S.O.B" there was. So how does a guy the size of Vader.. hold up, against a guy like Austin, who'll stop at nothing.

Somewhere there is a Vader v. Steve Austin video floating around.. I think you'll see Austin has more of a dominance advantage over Vader. (of course, this was during a time I think Irish believes Vader was falling out of his prime, while Austin was just entering his)

Steel Cage: Is it pinfall, submission or escape through a door/over the top? If it's just old, old school - over the top only.. then Austin wins two straight, no need for a third match.

I've never seen Vader climb a cage. If Irish can show me even the slightest footage of Vader climbing a cage (much less out of one) I'll change my opinion, and say Vader will own Austin inside a steel hell.

Regardless, I'm saying this.. Vader will own Austin inside a steel cage.. but unless it's pinfall, or escape through a door.. Vader has no chance of winning. He could knock Austin unconscious and still not find enough time to seemingly climb a cage in my opinion. (but I'll await proof that he can, before I fully say this)

In the end.. I told Irish I'd likely vote Vader, because I despise Steve Austin.. but the truth is.. if I'm doing this fair, Austin is slightly getting the advantage of my vote - based off the match that drew in both men's favor, or disadvantage, as I see it.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Vader v/s Austin. Mother of God. I have to give the edge to Austin. Why? Well, two out of the three matches favor Austin. The Hardcore match, and the Ladder match. Stone Cold can get real mean if he wants to be. He can use weapons. He can hurt you. Ask Mick Foley about an Austin Chair Shot. Vader can take a lot of punishment, but can be pinned.

IN the second match, it favors Vader. A cage match where you can only win by pinfall doesn't favor Austin. Austin would want to take Vader outside in order to keep from getting a pinfall and a possible chair to hit him with. In a cage, with no escaping, Vader would eventually wear down Austin for a a pinfall.

The third match will be Austin's. Vader can't climb a ladder as fast as Austin and Vader can be knocked off said ladder easier than Austin can. I say this will be a series of great matches, but Vader goes home here to Austin.

Vote: STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD!

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Vader v/s Austin. Mother of God. I have to give the edge to Austin.!

Wow, if there was anyone I expected more from, it was you. Disappointed again.

Why? Well, two out of the three matches favor Austin.

Austin sucks in 2 out of 3 falls matches. His only win was against Dustin Rhodes.

The Hardcore match, and the Ladder match. Stone Cold can get real mean if he wants to be.

Why, because he swears and drinks beer? Vader can and has gotten a SHITLOAD meaner than Austin. What, because Austin hit his wife he's a tough guy?

He can use weapons.

Ah yes, I forgot this was an "Austin can use weapons and Vader cannot" match.

He can hurt you.

Ah yes, I forgot this was a "Vader must only slam Austin on a featherbed match."

Ask Mick Foley about an Austin Chair Shot.

Ask Mick Foley ten years prior to that about a Vaderbomb onto concrete (wait, he won't remember that, it cause amnesia) and about the Texas Death Match at Halloween Havoc. Then ask Sting about leather straps and Yokouna how his leg is doing. You may also ask Joe Thurman how his back feels.

Vader can take a lot of punishment, but can be pinned.

One of these matches cannot end by pin (the ladder), and of course, I forgot this is an "Austin's shoulders cannot touch the mat" match.

IN the second match, it favors Vader. A cage match where you can only win by pinfall doesn't favor Austin. Austin would want to take Vader outside in order to keep from getting a pinfall and a possible chair to hit him with. In a cage, with no escaping, Vader would eventually wear down Austin for a a pinfall.

The three men I LEAST want to be stuck in a steel cage with are Vader, Haku, and Bad News Brown.

The third match will be Austin's. Vader can't climb a ladder as fast as Austin and Vader can be knocked off said ladder easier than Austin can. I say this will be a series of great matches, but Vader goes home here to Austin.

Won't matter, as Austin will be laying in a pool of his own blood after Vader decimates him with the ladder, and since Austin will be exhausted by this time.

Vote: STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD!

No, It's Vader Time. Don't be all pissy because Hansen lost early.

 

[NSL]

Austin's run has to end here. Vader would annihilate him in an extreme rules match. It wouldn't be pretty, and would end with a lot of fans needing vomit bags. Then, the cage is lowered, and Austin will still be tasting his own blood. As soon as he gets to his feet, Vader knocks him back down, and scores the pinfall. There is no need for a ladder match.

If escapes were allowed in the cage match, I'd give this to Austin, because he'd win that easily. The ladder match would go to Austin also.

 

[justinsayne]

Austin is more well versed in weapon usage, so I think he'd be able to squeak out a victory in the first fall, the cage match would likely go to Vader though, which brings this to the thrid fall, the ladder match, Austin has the edge in this despite still feeling the effects of the first two falls, Austin in no slouch he can dish out a shit load of punishment as well, and Vader would be hurting going into that 3rd fall as well, all Austin needs to do is somehow gets Vader outside the ring and hit him with a stunner, if the ladder is already in position in the middle of the ring I think Austin can scramble into the ring and climb the ladder before Vader is able to recover and get in the ring in time to stop Austin from winning the match, and yes I realize this will be a lot harder than it sounds, but it is possiable

 

[Shocky]

Just to clarify, again, the Steel Cage mach is submission or Pinfall only. Escape does nothing in this match, except put you on the outside of the ring wher eyou can't win the match.

Tasty: Austin did lose a steel cage match, in the first Three Stages of Hell match to Triple H. Quite possibly the best match of both mens careers. It was the double Sledge Hammer shot with Triple H falling on Austin that ended that match.

I'm still undecided, so I'm reserving my vote at this time.

 

[Big Sexy]

Tasty: Austin did lose a steel cage match, in the first Three Stages of Hell match to Triple H. Quite possibly the best match of both mens careers. It was the double Sledge Hammer shot with Triple H falling on Austin that ended that match.

He also lost a cage match to Chris Jericho after interference from Booker T. I would still take Austin over Vader in a cage because to my knowledge Vader has never won a cage match. At Clash of the Champions XXII he lost along with Paul Orndorff and Barry Windham to Sting, Dustin Rhodes, and Cactus Jack. At Superbrawl IV Ric Flair beat Vader via the Figure Four. At Bash at the Beach 95 he lost to Hogan.

 

[gd]

Well this will be decided in a ladder match. Every high profile 3 stages of hell/ best 2 out of 3 falls match goes the last stipulation, everyone. While Austin may not be known for ladder matches, neither was Vader. Austin would actually have an advantage climbing the ladder and would be able to use weapons just as well as Vader.

Pretty sure I'm voting for Austin, he was a great brawler and one of the few legitimate superstars in wrestling history and I'm sure he would be Vader in a big match like this.

 

[Blue Chipper]

This will come down to the ladder match, half because this gimmick match always (or 90 percent of the time) goes to the last match, and half because Stone cold would win an extreme rules and Vader would win a cage match.

None of them are notorious for ladder matches, however it can logically be inferred that the rattle snake can climb quicker than Vader seeing as how he is in a better physical shape and isn't hundred's of pounds overweight. So, Stone cold seemingly has the advantage. Also, Vader would be extremely tired and sluggish from the exhausting previous matches, because i'm sure he'd fatigue quicker than Stone Cold.

I think Vader will get a chance to climb, and as he attempts to, he suddently falls off the ladder and botches the climb, embarissing himself worse than his fall off the ring apron on his returning Raw affair, whilst severly hurting his already damaged back, therefore he'd be incapacitated long enough to grant Austin the victory. So, the ladder match favors Steve moreso than Vader, so that's my justification for my vote.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As to the first two matches, I could see either of them winning one. And we both know they will because, as this is essentially a highly jacked up two out of three falls contest, it always comes down to the last fall. By the time the ladder match portion comes around, both of them are bloody and bruised and tired. I can't help but think Austin comes out in the end with the win. I know Vader can climb a ladder, that's not where I'm going with this.

After two punishing matches, Vader is gonna be suckin' wind. I know the guy's tough and I know he's an athletic SHW, but the guy's weight is going to be a negative factor by this stage. He outweighs Austin by 200 pounds and I don't care how tough Vader is, his size is going to put limits on his stamina. By the time this portion of the match takes place, he's stamina is going to be questionable. Even in Kayfabe terms, logic dictates that a 450 pound man isn't going to have as much gas in the tank as a man that's just a little more than half his size. As athletic as Vader is, and he is and impressively so, it's just over with here. I'm giving the final fall to Austin.

 

[D-Man]

Wow, man... this is extremely tough for me.

Extreme Rules match
Austin is absolutely psychotic when it comes to matches without rules. The less rules, the more Stone Cold is in his element. The man lives without boundaries, without rules, and without remorse, so this match is a perfect setting for him. Not to mention the fact that he is relentless, powerful, cunning, and technical inside and outside of a ring.

On the other hand, to put it plain and simple, Vader is a dangerous mother fucker. The man knows the top of the ropes, outside of the ring, and how to make his mastedon-type of body decimate inside of a ring. He is more experienced in matches of this type. Wins and losses that he's had in the past don't matter for him, considering his experience level in this type of environment.

Steel Cage
No one has any argument or a leg to stand on if they even think for one second that Austin has ANY possibility of winning this type of match, ESPECIALLY without the option of escaping the cage. It's like putting a UFC champion prize fighter inside of a cage with a mountain lion. Sure, both are tough and one has more ring psychology and more intelligence (per say), but that doesn't mean jack shit against a blood-thirsty animal in a closed off environment. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Vader-time.

Ladder Match
Another slightly tough decision, based on the fact that IMO, Vader's immense size is by no means any determination of his agility. The beast has proven time and time again that he can flip, maneuver, and utilize high altitudes like a cruiserweight. So, I have no doubt that he can climb a ladder with a decent amount of speed. The question is, how fast can he climb it?? Even though Vader is extremely agile, it doesn't make him MORE agile than Stone Cold. Emphasizing on my point from the Extreme Rules matchup; In my book, these two men are almost dead-even in any type of hardcore setting. So, it comes down to who has MORE agility and not agility in general (ok IC25?). Since I believe they can produce an equal amount of damage on each other in this kind of setting, I can only see it coming down to who can climb a ladder fast enough after incapacitating their opponent because, let's face it, they can both take a beating and recover relatively quickly. So, my pick here goes to Austin (just barely).

In closing, I will say that my decision has NOT been made yet. To me, it all comes down to who can pull off the Extreme Rules match. I need a lot of help with this decision, so let's go people... CONVINCE ME!!

 

[Big Sexy]

Steel Cage
No one has any argument or a leg to stand on if they even think for one second that Austin has ANY possibility of winning this type of match, ESPECIALLY without the option of escaping the cage. It's like putting a UFC champion prize fighter inside of a cage with a mountain lion. Sure, both are tough and one has more ring psychology and more intelligence (per say), but that doesn't mean jack shit against a blood-thirsty animal in a closed off environment. Ladies and gentlemen, it's Vader-time.

Well let's see, Ric Flair defeated Vader in a cage match by making him submit to the figure four. I'm sure if Flair is capable of taking Vader out in a cage match then Austin could do the same.

 

[Leeds Guy]

Extreme Rules: Austin

Austin made his career from beating the living piss out of people and showing no mercy. However the longer the match goes on the more it plays into the mammoth that is Vader's hands, I still give this to Austin though, mainly because I dont think he would let it go on too long before he hits the stunner. He's lighter which means faster and hes kayfabe the toughest to ever step foot in the ring.

Cage: Austin

Now this is were I differ from the rest of you, everybody seems to reckon that Vader would be at home here in this match and your right he would.....if he got the chance. Austin would in all probability wait till Vader is back on his feet before dropping him with the Stunner again...he has done this time and time again in his career after matches and he would do it here, in fact he would be more incensed to do it here as nobody wants to be in a cage with Vader.

Ladder Match : N/A Austin wins 2-0

 

[X]

Quite frankly I can't believe the lack of support for Vader here. I thought he was hugely over here on these forums because of IC's whole SHW campaign in the last tournament.

Vader does in fact have what it takes to defeat Austin here, I won't debate that. Some people will argue he doesn't have the endurance, and those people clearly would never have seen some of Vader's Puro matches. He would have the brutality and endurance to go the distance here, but unfortunately I'm still going to have to vote for Austin here.

Call me a mark if you'd like, but Austin has beaten every kind of wrestler from luchador to SHW and everything in between. There's just about no one he can't take, be it by the kayfabe standards most vote on here, or his legacy and contribution to the business, Austin overcomes Vader in every one of them. And that's coming from a big time Vader fan.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

I am actually OK with this. Had Vader lost to The Big Show - a hack compared to Leon White to be sure - I would have blown a gasket and banned someone. But this I can accept.

The score is far more lopsided than the match would be. Fact is, Vader from 1993 vs Austin from 1997 would be amazing. And in many cases, Vader would in fact win. But as I went away for the weekend and returned to see the score 50-something to 17-ish, I resigned the loss.

And overall, this was an excellent year for my SHW campaign. Yokozuna did pretty well before getting a bit of a raw deal, Bigelow took out Flair before getting a highly lopsided gimmick in the favor of the supremely talented Chris Jericho, and Andre went out to Vader, so that's acceptable. Add in the fact that Wight did well (another SHW I respect), and it was a terrific year for the 325+ lb club.